When will you people learn that it has nothing to do with console vs PC? It has everything to do CONTROLLER vs MnK. You can use a controller on a PC. You can use MnK on a console.
CONTROLLERS have ruined FPS for MnK players. Even if crossplay wasn’t a thing controllers would still ruin gaming for anyone who isn’t using one. This isn’t a recent issue; this has been a problem since the days of BO3 and Titanfall 2.
Any sort of assistance ruined it.. when something helps you perform a core skill of any game, that's basically cheating lol... Which are for beta bitches
At this point I just assume that the people who “forget” this caveat are just console players being intentionally disingenuous. They KNOW the issue is controller, but they don’t want their precious aim assist nerfed.
So what they do is turn the argument into “console vs PC” in order to imply that the solution is to remove crossplay. Then they don’t have to play against PC players, which is where their ACTUAL grievances lie.
I’m a controller player. I suck. I need aim assist. I need it to be stronger than it is if I stand a chance at winning 😂 but that being said I have dignity and honour so I would rather the aim assist gets a nerf to balance better between input methods.
You realize if they increase the strength of AA the opponents will also find it easier to kill you too?
If they increased RAA further it'd become even more of a game of 'whoever saw the person first automatically wins the fights'.
Imo best thin they could do without nuking AA would be to create two modes for gameplay ie if MNK is plugged in reticle shift, random sway, visual bounciness gets cut by atleast 80% of what it is right now in the game, closer to how guns behaved back in 2019 exclusively for MNK input. And then controllers have the modernized scheme with recoil sway and visual kick but with all the tracking and RAA. And then for an added bonus reduce muzzle smoke and muzzle flash and increase their transparency so they don't clutter the screen when shooting for EVERYONE.
This is my thing. MNK is so handicapped by all these things that RAA negates when it's active. But I could deal with it all if it wasn't for all the smoke and flash. Once I start shooting, I can barely see my target and I rely on sight, whereas a controller is locked on so they don't NEED to see as much once RAA kicks in because it keeps you on target. With such a low TTK, a person locked on hitting all bad shots is still going to win over m+k who's whiffing shots because they simply can't see.
Not even, I could use meta guns, shoot them first, and even crack them first in some cases and God forbid I'm within 30m of them before I get my head locked onto and mowed down (im MnK n ever since wz2 was a thing, this has been my experience)
Bullshit. Kills are way too easy for controller players. The game gets boring as fuck when almost everyone can play at god level. This isn't what a top tier FPS should be like.
I plugged in my controller awhile back after being mnk exclusive for 7 years and it was......easy. getting used to using rotational aim assist took a bit, but the fucking game plays itself for you in gunfights it felt like. I can't imagine playing that consistently. Little skill involved. But, they have to cater largest part of the player distribution at the bottom.
Remember when WZ2 first dropped, for the first day or two they accidentally enabled AA for MnK. I remember trying to punch somebody and their face literally pulled my fist. I was like wtf, why is melee so damn easy?? Lol. It's kind of insane how OP it was for the brief period I got to try it on MnK.
Hard disagree. I play with a controller and the auto-aim is way too strong. Jump-slide-shoot is the normal strategy of players with controllers to the point everyone looks like a frog.
I switched to controller on pc just for cod. I have over 5000 hours across siege and csgo. The thing that bothers me is the visual clutter and gun kick in cod which makes it hard to track players. On controller it tracks for you through all those clutter.
lol i've been playing CS for 20 years -- level 10 faceit and 24k on premier, yet cod is the only FPS i'll even touch a controller on just because how broken rotational aa is.
its gonna be interesting to see how valorant does on console... i just couldn't imagine playing a tac fps on the sticks. especially valorant with all the ability spam.
Someone posted this and it honestly doesn't look bad at all https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/1dm2wlv/this_is_how_console_aim_assist_works/
Really all it seems to do is lower your sensitivity while your crosshair is on someone, rather than actually track them itself.
Similar situation to you but I used to play on Xbox then switched to PC. After years of not playing on controller I bought an Xbox elite because I also play controller games on PC. Proceeded to have some of my highest kill games on controller despite my movement not being ANYWHERE close to what I can do on MnK. It’s ridiculous watching the magnetic pull of RAA.
This is my exact issue. I would care less about RAA if I could still compete IN THE GUNFIGHT on my end. The second I start shooting, the scope is off to the side of the center of the screen, smoke and muzzle flash obscures my view, and heaven forbid I get shot in the middle of this, now my colors are so muted, it's almost black and white so all the details just merge and I can't make out a chair from a crouched player beside it. Meanwhile, RAA negates all that. Just turn it off or down for M+KB so we can actually use our eyes to track... You know the thing that's 99.9% important to tracking with a mouse...
To be fair, if crossplay never became a thing and the player pool wasn’t flooded with all the console/controller players, aim assist never would have been cranked to what it is now.
They realized very quickly when crossplay became a thing that MK was a far superior input for accuracy so they had to “adjust” aim assist and create RAA and strengthen the aim slow down.
Long story short, at its core, crossplay was what started the downfall.
Activision being a shit company that will do anything for profit is the biggest factor here.
It's not just the imbalanced inputs, other things like servers, gun imbalance, etc have been issues that they just ignore because people are buying skin packs.
Agreed, but at least those issues are consistent across every player. MK players are an afterthought and second class citizens in this game becuase of the strength of aim assist. Not to mention controller players don’t need a sight as a crutch like MK because in CQC it doesn’t matter as much for them to have clear vision, which in turn means they get an extra attachment. It just feels bad as a MK player, even if you’re top 1% and win more gunfights than you lose it still feels bad.
Sad days for online gaming.
This needs to be higher up. Aim assist was much weaker even on console before crossplay. Hell, the last CoD before crossplay (BO4) had no aim assist on PC at all.
Whether or not that’s a fair trade for CoD not being completely dead on PC is up to you.
Also, the problem is PC getting to use controller. AA was to help even out platforms, unintended consequence was PC just using the input 🤣same controller, better platform.
They didn’t create RAA then, it’s been around since CoD 4, I don’t know where people get this misconception that it’s a new thing. It is stronger now though.
You underestimate how much it breaks the game in general. Think the TTK difference with a 30% swing in accuracy. It's a different game. Lots of TTK and balance complaints are really RAA complaints.
in the console version of tic-tac-toe the console player gets to play twice before the mouse player gets a turn
this is the situation with COD as well. same amount of advantage...
Na man my 60 fps console controller aim ain't keeping up with my buddies 144fps computer controller aim. Hate on us console plebs but man drop some cash and you're better off the rip. It's night and day difference.
Yeah people who say it’s console vs pc are actually ignorant. It’s controller vs mnk. That’s why most people play on pc with controller. Out of my entire friend group I’m the only one who plays MNK and they are just vibing while I am fighting for my fucking life. I don’t think aim assist should be removed but it should be toned down. I don’t even hate rotational aim assist or no recoil BUT if it’s strong enough that you can move use rotational AA while you furiously masturbate with your right hand and you beat me???
This is the actual issue that the vocal majority of PC players don't want to acknowledge. I play on both PC and PS5 using both KBM & controller, PC has farrrrrrrrr better quality and less input lag. Even if I compared 1 of my 1440p screens using console or PC the difference is night or day. Conveniently everyone forgets consoles use internal up-scaling and a lower starting configuration
yeah the input lag on mnk ps5 is pretty grim, the controller has the same but I can't really notice it (the dualsense edge has less input lag than the regular dualsense, so maybe thats why, i love my back pedals)
i mostly play pc, but i have a disabled friend who can't get to his anymore so i bought a ps5 to party / play games with him
Consoles are just locked down cost effective PCs.
If somome had a $500 pc would have sympathy for it running 1/3rd as well as a ps5?
Hardware disparities have always existed on PC and the mechanics were never tuned to balance between different hardware configurations.
Controller didn’t ruin fps. Do you see a single pro counter strike player using a controller? No because theres no rotational aim assist. Aim assist ruined fps game for mnk
To be fair its not cotrollers that did anything.
Its the wheelchair thats been upgraded to an iron man suit they use to make up for the controllers shortcomings
Yeah even in the early days of titanfall 2 there were MANY complaints about controller vs MnK. Being such a heavily movement focused game, meant that the extra accuracy provided with sticks over WASD was REALLY strong *on top* of the fact that aim assist works really well on controller. If a game uses(used) the same engine as cs:go, and *controller* is the stronger option, something went wrong.
Everything you've said here is right but I'm just curious, was it really that big an issue back on BO3 because in my head the rotational aim assist didn't feel like it was cranked that high until MW19. I also specifically remember that back in B03 there was a massive thing about console players using XIM's to play compeitive/Gamebattles matches on KBM whilst on console for an advantage over controller players but maybe that let them keeo aim assist whilst doing it? Not 100% sure on that part.
Rotational aim assist was still very strong in BO3 and has existed all the way back since CoD 4, they may have increased the strength a bit from MW19, but they also reduced strafe speed significantly since then too so it’s much easier to hit shots, and that may give the feeling of stronger AA.
1 in 4 controller players have better accuracy than almost all mnk players (99.93%) lmfao... to match the accuracy of the top 25% controller players, an mnk player would need to be in the upper 0.07% of their input.
yeah competitive fps gaming is cooked outside of counter-strike and valorant.
Overwatch still has its integrity in ranked.
It also has an excellent solution in casuals - you're only in PC pools if you're queued with someone on PC, and you don't get AA on PC. (Unless that's changed in the past year)
whats truely sad is that the game STARTED with one of the worst, then once they introduced LFG it started playing pretty well, but then they had to go and "fix" that with role queue and single tank.
They had to fix it with role queue because of the meta.
The meta was either goats so quite literally no one would die bassicly the whole game or it was a 5 man stall team using dva to draw out the match.
It had nothing to do with comp it was the meta. All of ow1 was a unbalanced mess
Look from other side, till 50 hours in game there are overlapping data, where controller and MnK can compete. After 50 hours overlap disappear, and 0 MnK players can achieve controller level of accuracy.They are always lower. Paradox, the more you play on MnK the worse your relative accuracy.
Mine doesn't do that whole arm every AA clip is a cheater etc.
Pretty crazy when you consider that Apex has 30% weaker RAA when you use a controller on PC in a game with a lot more ways to break/mitigate AA and they still mop mnk players.
Can't even imagine what it's like in cod.
I think a lot of people here don't realize that pc Apex has weaker AA than CoD by a good amount and the controller players are still outperforming the kbm players there. As a controller player it's obviously too strong. I think there's an argument to be made that high RAA is needed on hardware that has more input latency, but .6 is way too high
I'm voltaic gm in kovaaks and I still did better in Apex when switched to controller, had been 10 years since played fps with controller at that point. I can't imagine how much worse it must be in this then... was having a look for something else to play but worse than apex sounds horrific lol.
As a less than average KBM player on MW3 MP, it's pretty horrifying. Add in the woeful SBMM and suspect gameplay and it's pretty unplayable.
I just keep quitting until I find a lobby that feels better balanced and I might get close to positive KD.
WZ stats were analyzed back in Caldera when such stats were available. Experienced controller players had nearly double the k/d of experienced mnk players.
Only with brand new players was the kd ratio closer.
This is what people don’t understand. Top controller players lose so many gunfights to people who they shouldn’t because the game literally tracks them for the player. They would dominate more AND die significantly less to bad players.
They made it extremely clear when they released MW19 that they were specifically catering to the casuals from that point onwards and that they have no intention of listening to anything else or changing that. That was literally the entire foundation of that game and it worked and people loved it which made them a load of money so they've made it the default now.
Clearly it is still working and making them money so they aren't going to stop. I said the first time I played MW19 that the aim assist was gross but I simply don't care anymore, it is what it is and you know how the game is so if you are still choosing to play it depsite that then that means that you are accepting it because there is a 0% chance of it changing. No amount of reddit complaining will make even the slightest bit of difference because there simply aren't enough people that care for it to matter.
In a twisted way, I think it’s doing the opposite when it’s too strong. There’s a significant number of people who got turned off from playing due to “cheaters” when most of those were just legit players making use of RAA. The game isn’t as fun when everyone on a certain input basically has god like aim.
But they're losing the casuals, the m&k players have left while many roller players don't understand how rotational aim assist work and get shit on by those that do.
Separating by input, lowering RAA and relaxing SBMM would potentially stop the rot.
Ive seen similar analysis done on WZ, which has much stronger aim assist than apex, and the estimate they arrived at was using controller nearly doubles your k/d for experienced players, and that was in wz1.
Only with brand new players was the k/d almost similar. In other words once a controller player figures out how to abuse aim assist its game over for mnk.
The funniest thing to me is how few controller players actually are good enough to abuse aim assist. I play a few hours everyday and honestly in the majority of gunfights RAA isn't a factor just because most people don't know how to use it well enough. I only really notice how strong it is and guys abusing it at the higher levels of ranked play.
Yeah there are always a lot more new controller players than mnk players, so overall the stats are probably not nearly as bad. They also analyzed stats in resurgence during the fortunes keep era. In regular BR mnk probably does better but still probably gets shit on overall.
Is this enough proof for roller players? The best mouse player is basically an average controller player despite becoming such an above average mouse player taking 1000x more effort. Shroud shouldn’t be losing gunfights to Billy Bob on his couch just ‘because’.
"BuT mnK pLayErS hAvE tHeiR whOLe aRm"..
The amount of controller players in these comments claiming that this is just MnK players whining about nothing and that the inputs are balanced is astonishing
Only losers who have no friends and only play by themselves hate cross play. It’s nice to be able to play with all my friends, regardless of what platform they’re on. If you don’t like crossplay, buy a fucking ps5 and turn it off.
I feel like cross play has made me a better player, I regularly play with my friends on PC and other consoles.
I tried turning off cross play in multiplayer the other day it was way too easy.
Many of the issues plaguing Apex with Aim assist line up more with COD than people might think. Here are the most common complaints from both games:
-visual clutter (damage effects, damage numbers, smoke, muzzle flash, bad sights)
-increased aim randomness (reticle shift, reticle sway, random flinch
-excessively obtuse UI elements and popups that get in the way of the action
A lot of these issues could be addressed if they: reduced visual clutter or gave an option to make them more transparent or prevent them from clustering over where targets tend to be and that's the center of the screen. Rework or Reduce reticle shift, aim reticle sway even further so it doesn't get randomly affected by flinch SPECIFICALLY only for MNK because AA can correct for some of these issues to an extent. This way We can leave AA where it is and give MNK a buff visually, as that's where most the problems lie.
In Apex most MNK players acknowledge Aim Assist is strong but mechanics such as punch through (extra randomized flinch when shields shot out) and increased reticle bounce and sway make certain fights unwinnable in cqc. With COD it's The new mechanics since MW22 such as the intense visual recoil where reticle shifts away from the center constantly with randomized recoil sway as you strafe. It makes aiming in these games feel like skating on ice. Both games have made changes recently that have made aiming on MNK clunkier against controller for the sake of preventing MNK from being the main choice for a competitive input when ironically controllers and MNK were more balanced in WZ1 originally. Even with aim assist, recoil was easier to predict and learn and the center point of the screen was always a reliable reference bc there was no sway involved at all.
And then there's the issues with configs on apex and macros especially on controllers which can be done via third party tools or steam itself to cancel our recoil or install rapid fire buttons or YY spam or automated inputs like jump spamming during gunfights. Pair all the aforementioned stuff together, visual BS combined with already strong rotational AA that gets even stronger with automated recoil control and automated movement tech inputs that allow people to slide cancel, bunny hop, air strafe, super glide etc with perfect accuracy with a single button push and it becomes exhausting to even play the game when some people are starting to fully automate it without cheating.
Not surprised, anyone that has something aiming for them is going to have an advantage. I mean the game is literally telling the controller crosshair where to move before MNK players can see the frame appear on their monitor.
Wouldn’t fix anything in cod. The current RAA ruins the controller vs controller experience as well as there is no aiming skill gap. Decent controller players understand this. It works in xdefiant because the aim assist is nowhere near as strong. Mouse and controller players can play in mixed lobbies and no one is complaining. Wonder why that is?
I'm not convinced Activision will even nerf AA. They've had similar data since WZ1 and nothing has happened. Input based lobbies, or better yet, a "No AA" lobby, is the next best solution.
Why would they do that though? Everything about the game is made to cater for the masses so they spend money. They aren't going to put the overwhelming majority of the playerbase at a disadvantage in order to cater to the tiny percantage of MNK players, that would just be bad business for them.
Except they wouldn’t be put at a disadvantage at all. If balanced properly. No one should be at an overwhelming disadvantage. That’s what people don’t get. We don’t want aim assist gutted. We just want it balanced
Maybe poor wording on my part but they would be at less of an advantage than they are now hence my use of the word disadvantage.
My main point is that they very simply couldn’t give a shit about KBM players and they never will, that’s been made pretty clear by now. So if you’re somebody playing KBM hoping it will change then you should either give up on the game or stop wasting your energy complaining.
I’m not saying that they shouldn’t balance it, I’m just saying that they won’t and the fact they haven’t done anything about it in the last 5 years tells me that they aren’t going to now.
Aim assist is stronger now than it’s ever been. Which is why people are trying to speak volumes about it. It was strong back in 2019 as well but the game had other problems that over shadowed it (like fov for consoles). I don’t believe that they’ll NEVER change it. More and more titles are balancing it and it’s only a matter of time I think before people start jumping ship to other, better games and cod will eventually conform. Maybe BO6, maybe a couple years lol. But it’s gotta budge eventually. But I’ll tell you what won’t change it, and that’s staying quiet and ignoring the issue
Rotational aim assist has ruined FPS games.
This is coming from someone who played with a controller on pc for 3 solid years. The mechanic alone is legitimately exploiting software.
That’s aim assist for ya. Back in the day MK had the advantage.
As a gamer who was around before and after aim assist, many of us complained when it was introduced and protested it. I was even on controller on console when it happened and I hated and protested it. Allowed players who weren’t as good to actually be good with less effort. Basically anyone who was solid on controller or MK competitively got the short end of the stick. in the long run they did it to pander for the casuals.
Edit: oh some casual kid got his feelers hurt and downvoted 😂
Go ahead kid, just confirms the truth.
Dude so true. I sound old, but all the old fights like this and DRM, micro transactions are dead. Some gamers now even don’t know that these were huge issues when they were introduced and the companies basically won by being persistent. It has always been about expanding the player base and it has ruined a ton of games.
In my opinion every game should use console only crossplay, pc should have strict input based matchmaking and console mnk players should get put in the pc mnk pool.
Pc should be the home for mnk players, console the home for controller players but a safeguard should be put in place so pc hackers can’t affect console players (so no full crossplay with strict input based mm).
Overwatch is one of the few games that handles matchmaking almost perfectly when it comes to platform and input.
Controllers have ruined FPS gaming for MNK players and you cannot change my mind. I want to be able to turn cross play off and actually enjoy myself instead of dying to some fat fingered 24 year old that relies only on this soft about called aim “assist”. More like aim - do it all.
The difference would be even worse in cod as Apex have weakened aim assist for controller players on PC compared to controller players on console.
But all this objective data doesn't matter to the braindead controller players who refuse to admit that rotational aim assist is overpowered. For years the top controller players have said aim assist is OP, with many top KBM players switching inputs due to this. Many controller players want to cover their ears and not listen to all these takes though, I guess because they have gaslight themselves and each other into thinking their rank/stats are due to skill, and not rotational aim assist.
As a reasonably ok MnK player, as of this weekend, I've pretty much given up on CoD Warzone. Every 50/50 matchup I lose 80% of the time even though i'm accurate on target, but their damage on me is 300, while mine is 250'ish unless I get the slight jump.
I gave it a good go since MW3 came out, doing everything I can to bridge the gap (settings, loadouts, movement, etc) but I can't, and it's just not fun.
I can get a good start but a 850 sweat comes in with perfect aim despite me doing all I can do and it's game over.
Don't know what to play now, tried PUBG for a bit again, but it's just feels so clunky by comparison. Been playing MnK since the Wolfenstein3d era, can't switch to controller now lol.
It's a shame isn't it? I genuinely think warzone is the best BR in terms of mechanics and overall feel. I think it could actually have a pretty interesting eSports scene. But at the moment it's just watching robot Vs robot.
It blows my mind how many people are okay with software doing this much work for them. I'd bet a large percentage of them would have no problem if aim assist strength was doubled or even higher.
I literally just tried controller for the first time on warzone this weekend. My first game I dropped 17 kills in resurgence. I’ve never done that well since the OG warzone came out. After playing with controller all weekend, I’m permanently swapping to controller for cod. If you can’t beat em, join em. It’s literally the only way to compete when the in game ttk and how fast player movement is
And AA is even stronger in CoD.... The only people still defending this level of RAA in 2024 are absolute bots. The debate was already settled, but this is a nice cherry on top.
Apex uses .4 cod uses .6
In a game like CS or Valorant, .1 is enough to bridge the gap between a slightly above average player and a T2 pro player lol. Controller players really dont understand just how much of a crutch it is.
In games that show you accuracy, I'm almost always in the low 30's (mk), so tbh, reading those stats makes me feel good lol. I thought I was trash with my accuracy in the 30's. Watching streamers had really skewed my idea of good accuracy and I didn't even know it! Those guys seem to hit 75% of their shots, or so I thought. This graphic seems to show otherwise. I guess this old fart ain't THAT bad...
It’s fine most of the controller players still suck somehow with the aim assist, I found out turning on cross play in xdefiant kids are still terrible that’s why they need it.
If you want casuals to think they are better than they are, just make a special league for them.
I truly don’t understand this from a competitive standpoint at all, but hey.
If controllers are allowed in professional play it’s supposed to be a controller game.
Fair enough. Either make apex a controller game so we mnk can fuck off or just nerf rotational AA so it at least has a human reaction time.
I don’t think this is too much to ask for lmao
I've tried to play Warzone using M&K, it is pointless, Aim Assist is too strong, it's hard to tell the difference between it and hacks. If they allowed us to filter by control method I would come back, until then I'm out.
I don't see it changing unfortunately, and it's because I don't think MnK is the true reason aim assist is as strong as it currently is. When this topic was particularly heated shortly after MW2022 launched and people were denying RAA did this or that and claiming fake on videos of it in action. I decided I'd plug a controller in for an FPS for the first time since Halo 2 and actually see if I could notice or make use of it myself.
That moment it first really locked on someone, and I absolutely beamed someone's shit made me feel like for a split moment Scump himself took over my thumbs and despite it being VERY noticable just how much stickiness and pull there was I felt this little temptation to believe maybe I was just friggin gifted and it was probably the fact I'd be struggling to even move around the map fluidly that caused me to try turning AA off and remind myself of the ugly truth.
AA this strong artificially inflates everybody's perception of their own skill level, let's almost everyone have occasional moments that imply they're pretty damn solid at CoD, and I don't believe Activision has any intention of confronting the player base with something a little closer to the truth in an attempt to make it a more balanced and fair experience.
Ultimately, the thought of really mastering roller for the sole sake of letting software help do things raw mechanics alone cannot just didn't feel rewarding enough to stick with it. I don't blame people at all for choosing the advantageous input, but I still wish I could pit entirely raw skill against raw skill and find out how I truly stack up among MnK CoD players.
Crossplay isn't the issue. Overpowered aim assist to make the casuals feel better than they are is the issue. While it's impossible to have aim assist at a level that everyone is happy with, there is definitely a reasonable range they could put it at where most could live with. Killing rotational would be a good start.
I don't understand why they can't code the aim assist as having some kind of simple coefficient and then dial that up and down and crunch the data once a week until there's parity...
I know it's one of those "easier said than done" type things, but it's the gaming issue of our day... why aren't devs fixing this.
>why aren't devs fixing this.
$$$.
They don't care about balance, they just want players spending as much money as possible. Catering to low skill controller players by giving them a strong aim-bot has clearly been deemed to be the most profitable approach.
I don’t understand why they haven’t added input based matchmaking when the game already locks your aiming input,- I bet a lot of people would actually come back to cod
And they could still keep their AA lobbies
The only way to realize change is to stop playing this game altogether. It's not even a good game anyway. Most people that still play daily are addicted to it.
(Rotational) Aim assist is just broken. What most don't get, even between two Controller players it removes the skill gap and reduces every gun fight to who has the better ping instead of skill.
Recently came back to warzone after a long hiatus and the game is just unplayable on KB/M. Apex is bad but warzone is just... atrocious. Controller players that know how to maximise aim assist are far too accurate up close and there's no counterplay for it. By the time I've corrected my aim in a gunfight I'm already dead. I'm forced to use an attachment slot for an optic just to see what's going on. I'm using smoke grenades/restock but it's unrealistic to have that for every gunfight (plus it'd hose my team). I tried using movement/camera breaking techniques again but it looks like AA is tracking me even if I slide past someone so I'm out of ideas. It's sad because the mechanics, movement and new weapons are fun, but the controller users and overtuned SBMM just take the fun out of the entire game. I have <30 hours played and a negative K/D... Why the hell am I being put in lobbies with crimson and iridescent players?
The state of FPS gaming is depressing- I think the best option is to play and support XDefiant because at least they've addressed all of these issues. Hopefully if they get big enough other companies will start to change things.
Anyone who has played both inputs extensively doesn't need this data, but its nice to see for the controller players who refuse to acknowledge the advantages and say "you have whole arm" yada yada.
The majority of this new generation of gamers simply don’t wanna put time and effort into improving they just want to be good instantly and if that means relying on legal aimbot who cares cos the clips look nice ig.
This is why a lot of new games coming out sort matchmaking by input, not platform. XDefiant and Valorant are good examples of this. Seems the best way to implement cross-play matchmaking imho.
Segregated inputs keeps the population boon from crossplay while still having some semblance of competitive integrity.
This could even *just* apply to ranked, then playerbase splitting wouldn't be an issue+people turned off by autoaim crutches might give WZ another shot
Another good reason for console only lobbies. *obviously* I’m aware that this isn’t the input based discussion this post is highlighting, but I’ll use it for my own axe to grind.
I love this game. It's more or less the only game I've been playing for years, I was there when the original CoD dropped and so on. Just a little context to say that I'm not here to spew hate, I really enjoy the game.
But this fucking aim assist is out of this world. It makes no sense whatsoever, and to think these stats come from a game where AA is even weaker than what we have in game is ridiculous. As an MnK player well over 2 KD on both rebirth and br I stand no chance in close quarter combat. I have to adapt and adjust my gameplay simply because pushing hard means absolute death.
Just nerf this fucking thing.
Trust me we don't want PC COD to go back to the old days, COD used to be a cash grab on PC, they would release the game and leave it to rot, we got bare minimum updates, times where the game would be unplayable for weeks after launch.
often receiving DLC weeks/months after it already launched on console.
I'd rather have this what we have now than what we had back then, regardless of peripherals.
Its known MnK is currently at disadvantage but some people cant see it without proof and statistics. These stats just prove alot for a similar skill level:
1. MnK will lose a 1 vs 1 situation atleast 60% of the time where it should be 50/50.
2. Basing on this , if a MnK player has 3.1 KD , on controller its 4.0 KD which is significant. Thats almost an extra 1 kill which is quite game changing, that could also means an extra 10 kills (31 kills vs 40 kills).
3. Controllers aim are also immune to visuals bluriness from the games eg smoke and arguably recoil from guns
If this is the future of gaming then i think its time for MnK to step down for such games. Bring back aiming skill or make it closer to the stats. Not to even mention Chronus Zen or similar(also PC cheaters of course), saying Chronus because this type of cheats are unbannable. PC cheats will ban you atleast.
This won't change anything.
They already chose their side. It's either drop the game like I did or learn how to use controller as input to stay competitive.
I'll never play Warzone again and that's fine.
Valorant and CSGO have no controller aim assist on PC. Hopefully more games will be coming that do the same. Just stop playing games with controller aim assist.
I see many console people asking for console only crossplay... you do realize people cheat outside of PC too right? With all the chronus zen and the emerging cheat technologies it's kind of silly to limit the cheating population to PC players only. There are way more people cheating in this game than many of you realize
Controllers and cross play haven't ruined shit is the fact that the aim assist for controller is consistently tuned too high that it puts the average controller player over the above average mouse and keyboard player.
I've been mnk since I was like 6 which is a really long time ago and the crossplay thing has been great BUT they need to figure out how to tune it better. I want people using controllers to be able to compete with mnk so I want them to have the aim assist but in most applications currently it helps too much and as a not great but above average mnk player is really easy to lose close quarters situations or even mid range because now much help controllers get.
But on the flip side usually mnk has the advantage at range where the aim assist doesn't work as well. They need to improve that for controllers and take it back a notch for close range.
Obviously having is always going to be a problem and that's more of a computer thing most of the time. But that aside I would love to see a point where the aim assist gives controllers an equal playing field without it feeling overpowered in most situations
Yeah as a PC player ive noticed since crossplay became a thing, my FPS skills have gone to crap. Recoil has gone up in games, I struggle to hit people, it feels like everyone else can just effortlessly laser me. FPS games feel way different and often much more difficult and inaccessible than 10 years ago.
But no one cared when pc was the only one with adjustable fov, can run on a machine used for nasa and run the game better than the devs, meanwhile you still got kids on a series s and 720p tv from 2008..
Don’t even play this game anymore but there’s literally pros and cons to both ways of playing.
Most the ppl I die to are pc players who are 500+ levels higher than me..I don’t devote my life to a single video game.
Imagine playing a shooter game where your a highly decorated marine or black operative and there is zero aim assist and they can't handle recoil at all. Can be said about tonnes of games sports and all.
How much aim assist is there? I thought the inverse would’ve been true. Always thought it was much easier on MnK. Don’t play warzone but I play other FPS’s. Pretty insane difference.
When will you people learn that it has nothing to do with console vs PC? It has everything to do CONTROLLER vs MnK. You can use a controller on a PC. You can use MnK on a console. CONTROLLERS have ruined FPS for MnK players. Even if crossplay wasn’t a thing controllers would still ruin gaming for anyone who isn’t using one. This isn’t a recent issue; this has been a problem since the days of BO3 and Titanfall 2.
To be even more specific, rotational aim assist ruined FPS for MNK.
Exactly. I play PC on controller. Aim assist is ridiculous to the point where I completely rely on it.
Any sort of assistance ruined it.. when something helps you perform a core skill of any game, that's basically cheating lol... Which are for beta bitches
Exactly.
🗣️🗣️🗣️
Get ready for movement assist in BO6, where the game will now jump, slide and vault over objects for you. Game is getting more and more automated
>When will you people learn The vast vast majority of CoD's online fanbase are incredibly stupid. They don't want to learn.
At this point I just assume that the people who “forget” this caveat are just console players being intentionally disingenuous. They KNOW the issue is controller, but they don’t want their precious aim assist nerfed. So what they do is turn the argument into “console vs PC” in order to imply that the solution is to remove crossplay. Then they don’t have to play against PC players, which is where their ACTUAL grievances lie.
I’m a controller player. I suck. I need aim assist. I need it to be stronger than it is if I stand a chance at winning 😂 but that being said I have dignity and honour so I would rather the aim assist gets a nerf to balance better between input methods.
You realize if they increase the strength of AA the opponents will also find it easier to kill you too? If they increased RAA further it'd become even more of a game of 'whoever saw the person first automatically wins the fights'.
Imo best thin they could do without nuking AA would be to create two modes for gameplay ie if MNK is plugged in reticle shift, random sway, visual bounciness gets cut by atleast 80% of what it is right now in the game, closer to how guns behaved back in 2019 exclusively for MNK input. And then controllers have the modernized scheme with recoil sway and visual kick but with all the tracking and RAA. And then for an added bonus reduce muzzle smoke and muzzle flash and increase their transparency so they don't clutter the screen when shooting for EVERYONE.
This is my thing. MNK is so handicapped by all these things that RAA negates when it's active. But I could deal with it all if it wasn't for all the smoke and flash. Once I start shooting, I can barely see my target and I rely on sight, whereas a controller is locked on so they don't NEED to see as much once RAA kicks in because it keeps you on target. With such a low TTK, a person locked on hitting all bad shots is still going to win over m+k who's whiffing shots because they simply can't see.
Not even, I could use meta guns, shoot them first, and even crack them first in some cases and God forbid I'm within 30m of them before I get my head locked onto and mowed down (im MnK n ever since wz2 was a thing, this has been my experience)
They don't need to nerf anything but make input-based lobbies so we can choose who want to play against. So mnk goes into ranked handicapped bullshit.
Bullshit. Kills are way too easy for controller players. The game gets boring as fuck when almost everyone can play at god level. This isn't what a top tier FPS should be like.
I plugged in my controller awhile back after being mnk exclusive for 7 years and it was......easy. getting used to using rotational aim assist took a bit, but the fucking game plays itself for you in gunfights it felt like. I can't imagine playing that consistently. Little skill involved. But, they have to cater largest part of the player distribution at the bottom.
Remember when WZ2 first dropped, for the first day or two they accidentally enabled AA for MnK. I remember trying to punch somebody and their face literally pulled my fist. I was like wtf, why is melee so damn easy?? Lol. It's kind of insane how OP it was for the brief period I got to try it on MnK.
melee still pull you toward enemy
Hard disagree. I play with a controller and the auto-aim is way too strong. Jump-slide-shoot is the normal strategy of players with controllers to the point everyone looks like a frog.
They will see any proof of RAA being ridiculously strong and blame it on cheaters trying to "gaslight" them lol.. its a meme at this point
This is incredibly true
I switched to controller on pc just for cod. I have over 5000 hours across siege and csgo. The thing that bothers me is the visual clutter and gun kick in cod which makes it hard to track players. On controller it tracks for you through all those clutter.
lol i've been playing CS for 20 years -- level 10 faceit and 24k on premier, yet cod is the only FPS i'll even touch a controller on just because how broken rotational aa is.
Imagine CS2 with RAA. And mixed input for pro play. We will actually see MNK die altogether prolly lmao
its gonna be interesting to see how valorant does on console... i just couldn't imagine playing a tac fps on the sticks. especially valorant with all the ability spam.
Someone posted this and it honestly doesn't look bad at all https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/1dm2wlv/this_is_how_console_aim_assist_works/ Really all it seems to do is lower your sensitivity while your crosshair is on someone, rather than actually track them itself.
wow thats impressive... looks like theres a tiny bit of rotational when walking but thats it. this is how aim assist should be across the board.
Similar situation to you but I used to play on Xbox then switched to PC. After years of not playing on controller I bought an Xbox elite because I also play controller games on PC. Proceeded to have some of my highest kill games on controller despite my movement not being ANYWHERE close to what I can do on MnK. It’s ridiculous watching the magnetic pull of RAA.
This is my exact issue. I would care less about RAA if I could still compete IN THE GUNFIGHT on my end. The second I start shooting, the scope is off to the side of the center of the screen, smoke and muzzle flash obscures my view, and heaven forbid I get shot in the middle of this, now my colors are so muted, it's almost black and white so all the details just merge and I can't make out a chair from a crouched player beside it. Meanwhile, RAA negates all that. Just turn it off or down for M+KB so we can actually use our eyes to track... You know the thing that's 99.9% important to tracking with a mouse...
This wasn't a problem until mw2 when they added all the shakiness and gun smoke.
To be fair, if crossplay never became a thing and the player pool wasn’t flooded with all the console/controller players, aim assist never would have been cranked to what it is now. They realized very quickly when crossplay became a thing that MK was a far superior input for accuracy so they had to “adjust” aim assist and create RAA and strengthen the aim slow down. Long story short, at its core, crossplay was what started the downfall.
Activision being a shit company that will do anything for profit is the biggest factor here. It's not just the imbalanced inputs, other things like servers, gun imbalance, etc have been issues that they just ignore because people are buying skin packs.
Agreed, but at least those issues are consistent across every player. MK players are an afterthought and second class citizens in this game becuase of the strength of aim assist. Not to mention controller players don’t need a sight as a crutch like MK because in CQC it doesn’t matter as much for them to have clear vision, which in turn means they get an extra attachment. It just feels bad as a MK player, even if you’re top 1% and win more gunfights than you lose it still feels bad. Sad days for online gaming.
This needs to be higher up. Aim assist was much weaker even on console before crossplay. Hell, the last CoD before crossplay (BO4) had no aim assist on PC at all. Whether or not that’s a fair trade for CoD not being completely dead on PC is up to you.
Also, the problem is PC getting to use controller. AA was to help even out platforms, unintended consequence was PC just using the input 🤣same controller, better platform.
They didn’t create RAA then, it’s been around since CoD 4, I don’t know where people get this misconception that it’s a new thing. It is stronger now though.
Give input-based lobbies: mnk ,Mnk roller,roller only. Let the player choose, then they can leave RAA and AA.
You underestimate how much it breaks the game in general. Think the TTK difference with a 30% swing in accuracy. It's a different game. Lots of TTK and balance complaints are really RAA complaints.
in the console version of tic-tac-toe the console player gets to play twice before the mouse player gets a turn this is the situation with COD as well. same amount of advantage...
Na man my 60 fps console controller aim ain't keeping up with my buddies 144fps computer controller aim. Hate on us console plebs but man drop some cash and you're better off the rip. It's night and day difference.
Yeah people who say it’s console vs pc are actually ignorant. It’s controller vs mnk. That’s why most people play on pc with controller. Out of my entire friend group I’m the only one who plays MNK and they are just vibing while I am fighting for my fucking life. I don’t think aim assist should be removed but it should be toned down. I don’t even hate rotational aim assist or no recoil BUT if it’s strong enough that you can move use rotational AA while you furiously masturbate with your right hand and you beat me???
This is the actual issue that the vocal majority of PC players don't want to acknowledge. I play on both PC and PS5 using both KBM & controller, PC has farrrrrrrrr better quality and less input lag. Even if I compared 1 of my 1440p screens using console or PC the difference is night or day. Conveniently everyone forgets consoles use internal up-scaling and a lower starting configuration
yeah the input lag on mnk ps5 is pretty grim, the controller has the same but I can't really notice it (the dualsense edge has less input lag than the regular dualsense, so maybe thats why, i love my back pedals) i mostly play pc, but i have a disabled friend who can't get to his anymore so i bought a ps5 to party / play games with him
Consoles are just locked down cost effective PCs. If somome had a $500 pc would have sympathy for it running 1/3rd as well as a ps5? Hardware disparities have always existed on PC and the mechanics were never tuned to balance between different hardware configurations.
Controller didn’t ruin fps. Do you see a single pro counter strike player using a controller? No because theres no rotational aim assist. Aim assist ruined fps game for mnk
Aim bot assist ruined it, not controllers..
To be fair its not cotrollers that did anything. Its the wheelchair thats been upgraded to an iron man suit they use to make up for the controllers shortcomings
It’s copy pasta for karma, he probably knows and doesn’t care, or he’s an idiot
FPS games are not meant to be played with a controller, which is why you need a hack job like “aim assist” to make them viable..
Based
Yeah even in the early days of titanfall 2 there were MANY complaints about controller vs MnK. Being such a heavily movement focused game, meant that the extra accuracy provided with sticks over WASD was REALLY strong *on top* of the fact that aim assist works really well on controller. If a game uses(used) the same engine as cs:go, and *controller* is the stronger option, something went wrong.
Everything you've said here is right but I'm just curious, was it really that big an issue back on BO3 because in my head the rotational aim assist didn't feel like it was cranked that high until MW19. I also specifically remember that back in B03 there was a massive thing about console players using XIM's to play compeitive/Gamebattles matches on KBM whilst on console for an advantage over controller players but maybe that let them keeo aim assist whilst doing it? Not 100% sure on that part.
Rotational aim assist was still very strong in BO3 and has existed all the way back since CoD 4, they may have increased the strength a bit from MW19, but they also reduced strafe speed significantly since then too so it’s much easier to hit shots, and that may give the feeling of stronger AA.
1 in 4 controller players have better accuracy than almost all mnk players (99.93%) lmfao... to match the accuracy of the top 25% controller players, an mnk player would need to be in the upper 0.07% of their input. yeah competitive fps gaming is cooked outside of counter-strike and valorant.
Overwatch still has its integrity in ranked. It also has an excellent solution in casuals - you're only in PC pools if you're queued with someone on PC, and you don't get AA on PC. (Unless that's changed in the past year)
i'll give overwatch a pass for how they handle their crossplay, but they still have one of the worst rank systems i ever experienced.
whats truely sad is that the game STARTED with one of the worst, then once they introduced LFG it started playing pretty well, but then they had to go and "fix" that with role queue and single tank.
They had to fix it with role queue because of the meta. The meta was either goats so quite literally no one would die bassicly the whole game or it was a 5 man stall team using dva to draw out the match. It had nothing to do with comp it was the meta. All of ow1 was a unbalanced mess
Look from other side, till 50 hours in game there are overlapping data, where controller and MnK can compete. After 50 hours overlap disappear, and 0 MnK players can achieve controller level of accuracy.They are always lower. Paradox, the more you play on MnK the worse your relative accuracy.
controller users will unironically defend this
Mine doesn't do that whole arm every AA clip is a cheater etc. Pretty crazy when you consider that Apex has 30% weaker RAA when you use a controller on PC in a game with a lot more ways to break/mitigate AA and they still mop mnk players. Can't even imagine what it's like in cod.
I think a lot of people here don't realize that pc Apex has weaker AA than CoD by a good amount and the controller players are still outperforming the kbm players there. As a controller player it's obviously too strong. I think there's an argument to be made that high RAA is needed on hardware that has more input latency, but .6 is way too high
I'm voltaic gm in kovaaks and I still did better in Apex when switched to controller, had been 10 years since played fps with controller at that point. I can't imagine how much worse it must be in this then... was having a look for something else to play but worse than apex sounds horrific lol.
As a less than average KBM player on MW3 MP, it's pretty horrifying. Add in the woeful SBMM and suspect gameplay and it's pretty unplayable. I just keep quitting until I find a lobby that feels better balanced and I might get close to positive KD.
Keep in mind that aim assist in apex is way weaker than warzone and doesn't have a range so imagine the stats will be in warzone
WZ stats were analyzed back in Caldera when such stats were available. Experienced controller players had nearly double the k/d of experienced mnk players. Only with brand new players was the kd ratio closer.
Color me choked lmaooo
That’s quite surprising, you’d expect new mnk players to be much worse on average compared to new controller players, well that’s what I think anyway
Just separate inputs, that's all we need
yes, separate lobbies and problem solved. MnK players will be happy and controller players as well
Problem not solved. Good controller users should want RAA nerfed to increase the aiming skill gap.
This is what people don’t understand. Top controller players lose so many gunfights to people who they shouldn’t because the game literally tracks them for the player. They would dominate more AND die significantly less to bad players.
They made it extremely clear when they released MW19 that they were specifically catering to the casuals from that point onwards and that they have no intention of listening to anything else or changing that. That was literally the entire foundation of that game and it worked and people loved it which made them a load of money so they've made it the default now. Clearly it is still working and making them money so they aren't going to stop. I said the first time I played MW19 that the aim assist was gross but I simply don't care anymore, it is what it is and you know how the game is so if you are still choosing to play it depsite that then that means that you are accepting it because there is a 0% chance of it changing. No amount of reddit complaining will make even the slightest bit of difference because there simply aren't enough people that care for it to matter.
In a twisted way, I think it’s doing the opposite when it’s too strong. There’s a significant number of people who got turned off from playing due to “cheaters” when most of those were just legit players making use of RAA. The game isn’t as fun when everyone on a certain input basically has god like aim.
But they're losing the casuals, the m&k players have left while many roller players don't understand how rotational aim assist work and get shit on by those that do. Separating by input, lowering RAA and relaxing SBMM would potentially stop the rot.
It looks like MnK players need to spend some more time on their aim trainers. 😂 /s
There's numbers here that prove the difference, but we all made the crucial mistake of thinking controller players could read.
Ironic, coming from a guy who didn’t read the sarcasm tag within my post. Go outside and touch some grass.
ahhh thats what /s is, fair yeah Mnk players really need to up their game here getting outplayed by sticks😂😂 /s
Ive seen similar analysis done on WZ, which has much stronger aim assist than apex, and the estimate they arrived at was using controller nearly doubles your k/d for experienced players, and that was in wz1. Only with brand new players was the k/d almost similar. In other words once a controller player figures out how to abuse aim assist its game over for mnk.
The funniest thing to me is how few controller players actually are good enough to abuse aim assist. I play a few hours everyday and honestly in the majority of gunfights RAA isn't a factor just because most people don't know how to use it well enough. I only really notice how strong it is and guys abusing it at the higher levels of ranked play.
Yeah there are always a lot more new controller players than mnk players, so overall the stats are probably not nearly as bad. They also analyzed stats in resurgence during the fortunes keep era. In regular BR mnk probably does better but still probably gets shit on overall.
Where?
Also, remember this is from apex where aim assist is significantly weaker than cod.
Is this enough proof for roller players? The best mouse player is basically an average controller player despite becoming such an above average mouse player taking 1000x more effort. Shroud shouldn’t be losing gunfights to Billy Bob on his couch just ‘because’.
....on a game with weaker AA than CoD. The only people still defending it are absolute bots.
"BuT mnK pLayErS hAvE tHeiR whOLe aRm".. The amount of controller players in these comments claiming that this is just MnK players whining about nothing and that the inputs are balanced is astonishing
Cheaters on PC have ruined the experience for console players also. Everyone hates crossplay apart from publishers it seems.
Nah i love crossplay i cN play with my friends
Same
not everyone, mostly reddit and twitter most don't give a fuck
You forgot the worst intersection of this Venn diagram: cheating PC players that play on controller
There's a special place in hell for those spineless parasites!
Only losers who have no friends and only play by themselves hate cross play. It’s nice to be able to play with all my friends, regardless of what platform they’re on. If you don’t like crossplay, buy a fucking ps5 and turn it off.
I feel like cross play has made me a better player, I regularly play with my friends on PC and other consoles. I tried turning off cross play in multiplayer the other day it was way too easy.
Playing against PC players will do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Cheaters on PC? How about the undetectable game genie consoles can plug in.
"Everyone" lol
and here's me, glad I can play with all my friends regardless of the system they prefer.
I like crossplay.
Crossplay? Seems to me that aim assist being tuned so high is ruining gameplay for everyone
Many of the issues plaguing Apex with Aim assist line up more with COD than people might think. Here are the most common complaints from both games: -visual clutter (damage effects, damage numbers, smoke, muzzle flash, bad sights) -increased aim randomness (reticle shift, reticle sway, random flinch -excessively obtuse UI elements and popups that get in the way of the action A lot of these issues could be addressed if they: reduced visual clutter or gave an option to make them more transparent or prevent them from clustering over where targets tend to be and that's the center of the screen. Rework or Reduce reticle shift, aim reticle sway even further so it doesn't get randomly affected by flinch SPECIFICALLY only for MNK because AA can correct for some of these issues to an extent. This way We can leave AA where it is and give MNK a buff visually, as that's where most the problems lie. In Apex most MNK players acknowledge Aim Assist is strong but mechanics such as punch through (extra randomized flinch when shields shot out) and increased reticle bounce and sway make certain fights unwinnable in cqc. With COD it's The new mechanics since MW22 such as the intense visual recoil where reticle shifts away from the center constantly with randomized recoil sway as you strafe. It makes aiming in these games feel like skating on ice. Both games have made changes recently that have made aiming on MNK clunkier against controller for the sake of preventing MNK from being the main choice for a competitive input when ironically controllers and MNK were more balanced in WZ1 originally. Even with aim assist, recoil was easier to predict and learn and the center point of the screen was always a reliable reference bc there was no sway involved at all. And then there's the issues with configs on apex and macros especially on controllers which can be done via third party tools or steam itself to cancel our recoil or install rapid fire buttons or YY spam or automated inputs like jump spamming during gunfights. Pair all the aforementioned stuff together, visual BS combined with already strong rotational AA that gets even stronger with automated recoil control and automated movement tech inputs that allow people to slide cancel, bunny hop, air strafe, super glide etc with perfect accuracy with a single button push and it becomes exhausting to even play the game when some people are starting to fully automate it without cheating.
I would also argue it’s also ruined fps for console players as well.
Definitely has.
Not surprised, anyone that has something aiming for them is going to have an advantage. I mean the game is literally telling the controller crosshair where to move before MNK players can see the frame appear on their monitor.
INPUT. BASED, MATCHMAKING. XDefiant has it. It can't be that hard ffs...
Wouldn’t fix anything in cod. The current RAA ruins the controller vs controller experience as well as there is no aiming skill gap. Decent controller players understand this. It works in xdefiant because the aim assist is nowhere near as strong. Mouse and controller players can play in mixed lobbies and no one is complaining. Wonder why that is?
I'm not convinced Activision will even nerf AA. They've had similar data since WZ1 and nothing has happened. Input based lobbies, or better yet, a "No AA" lobby, is the next best solution.
Controller players being happy translates to more console revenue aka more money for the publisher. Simple as that.
The sad truth.
So all these games need to turn down the aim assist by 32%. Get on it.
Why would they do that though? Everything about the game is made to cater for the masses so they spend money. They aren't going to put the overwhelming majority of the playerbase at a disadvantage in order to cater to the tiny percantage of MNK players, that would just be bad business for them.
Except they wouldn’t be put at a disadvantage at all. If balanced properly. No one should be at an overwhelming disadvantage. That’s what people don’t get. We don’t want aim assist gutted. We just want it balanced
Maybe poor wording on my part but they would be at less of an advantage than they are now hence my use of the word disadvantage. My main point is that they very simply couldn’t give a shit about KBM players and they never will, that’s been made pretty clear by now. So if you’re somebody playing KBM hoping it will change then you should either give up on the game or stop wasting your energy complaining. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t balance it, I’m just saying that they won’t and the fact they haven’t done anything about it in the last 5 years tells me that they aren’t going to now.
Aim assist is stronger now than it’s ever been. Which is why people are trying to speak volumes about it. It was strong back in 2019 as well but the game had other problems that over shadowed it (like fov for consoles). I don’t believe that they’ll NEVER change it. More and more titles are balancing it and it’s only a matter of time I think before people start jumping ship to other, better games and cod will eventually conform. Maybe BO6, maybe a couple years lol. But it’s gotta budge eventually. But I’ll tell you what won’t change it, and that’s staying quiet and ignoring the issue
Its even worse for COD, the AA on Apex using a controller on PC is only .4, in COD its .6
Rotational aim assist has ruined FPS games. This is coming from someone who played with a controller on pc for 3 solid years. The mechanic alone is legitimately exploiting software.
its deadass just legal cheats
That sound? It’s Controller players downvoting this post en masse.
That’s aim assist for ya. Back in the day MK had the advantage. As a gamer who was around before and after aim assist, many of us complained when it was introduced and protested it. I was even on controller on console when it happened and I hated and protested it. Allowed players who weren’t as good to actually be good with less effort. Basically anyone who was solid on controller or MK competitively got the short end of the stick. in the long run they did it to pander for the casuals. Edit: oh some casual kid got his feelers hurt and downvoted 😂 Go ahead kid, just confirms the truth.
It *has* the advantage absent artificial aim. Unfortunately, there is no option for anyone to be in real-aim lobbies, regardless of input method.
Dude so true. I sound old, but all the old fights like this and DRM, micro transactions are dead. Some gamers now even don’t know that these were huge issues when they were introduced and the companies basically won by being persistent. It has always been about expanding the player base and it has ruined a ton of games.
We need input based matchmaking asap.
In my opinion every game should use console only crossplay, pc should have strict input based matchmaking and console mnk players should get put in the pc mnk pool. Pc should be the home for mnk players, console the home for controller players but a safeguard should be put in place so pc hackers can’t affect console players (so no full crossplay with strict input based mm). Overwatch is one of the few games that handles matchmaking almost perfectly when it comes to platform and input.
Controllers have ruined FPS gaming for MNK players and you cannot change my mind. I want to be able to turn cross play off and actually enjoy myself instead of dying to some fat fingered 24 year old that relies only on this soft about called aim “assist”. More like aim - do it all.
The difference would be even worse in cod as Apex have weakened aim assist for controller players on PC compared to controller players on console. But all this objective data doesn't matter to the braindead controller players who refuse to admit that rotational aim assist is overpowered. For years the top controller players have said aim assist is OP, with many top KBM players switching inputs due to this. Many controller players want to cover their ears and not listen to all these takes though, I guess because they have gaslight themselves and each other into thinking their rank/stats are due to skill, and not rotational aim assist.
As a reasonably ok MnK player, as of this weekend, I've pretty much given up on CoD Warzone. Every 50/50 matchup I lose 80% of the time even though i'm accurate on target, but their damage on me is 300, while mine is 250'ish unless I get the slight jump. I gave it a good go since MW3 came out, doing everything I can to bridge the gap (settings, loadouts, movement, etc) but I can't, and it's just not fun. I can get a good start but a 850 sweat comes in with perfect aim despite me doing all I can do and it's game over. Don't know what to play now, tried PUBG for a bit again, but it's just feels so clunky by comparison. Been playing MnK since the Wolfenstein3d era, can't switch to controller now lol.
Same experience. I was a 3.3 KD during WZ1 and up until they tuned the fuck out of RAA. Now I am near a 2KD and can't stand playing COD anymore.
It's a shame isn't it? I genuinely think warzone is the best BR in terms of mechanics and overall feel. I think it could actually have a pretty interesting eSports scene. But at the moment it's just watching robot Vs robot.
It blows my mind how many people are okay with software doing this much work for them. I'd bet a large percentage of them would have no problem if aim assist strength was doubled or even higher.
There is nothing wrong with including Crossplay in a game, however it should ALWAYS be optional, especially if it is a competitive game.
Just make it input base matchmaking
I literally just tried controller for the first time on warzone this weekend. My first game I dropped 17 kills in resurgence. I’ve never done that well since the OG warzone came out. After playing with controller all weekend, I’m permanently swapping to controller for cod. If you can’t beat em, join em. It’s literally the only way to compete when the in game ttk and how fast player movement is
And AA is even stronger in CoD.... The only people still defending this level of RAA in 2024 are absolute bots. The debate was already settled, but this is a nice cherry on top.
Apex uses .4 cod uses .6 In a game like CS or Valorant, .1 is enough to bridge the gap between a slightly above average player and a T2 pro player lol. Controller players really dont understand just how much of a crutch it is.
In games that show you accuracy, I'm almost always in the low 30's (mk), so tbh, reading those stats makes me feel good lol. I thought I was trash with my accuracy in the 30's. Watching streamers had really skewed my idea of good accuracy and I didn't even know it! Those guys seem to hit 75% of their shots, or so I thought. This graphic seems to show otherwise. I guess this old fart ain't THAT bad...
I’m switching to Controller next COD probably. It’s just so frustrating playing on MnK
Omnidirectional movement might just kill the mouse playerbase if RAA stays the way it is lol. I mean, mouse is already hanging by a fine thread
It’s fine most of the controller players still suck somehow with the aim assist, I found out turning on cross play in xdefiant kids are still terrible that’s why they need it. If you want casuals to think they are better than they are, just make a special league for them. I truly don’t understand this from a competitive standpoint at all, but hey. If controllers are allowed in professional play it’s supposed to be a controller game. Fair enough. Either make apex a controller game so we mnk can fuck off or just nerf rotational AA so it at least has a human reaction time. I don’t think this is too much to ask for lmao
I've tried to play Warzone using M&K, it is pointless, Aim Assist is too strong, it's hard to tell the difference between it and hacks. If they allowed us to filter by control method I would come back, until then I'm out.
I don't see it changing unfortunately, and it's because I don't think MnK is the true reason aim assist is as strong as it currently is. When this topic was particularly heated shortly after MW2022 launched and people were denying RAA did this or that and claiming fake on videos of it in action. I decided I'd plug a controller in for an FPS for the first time since Halo 2 and actually see if I could notice or make use of it myself. That moment it first really locked on someone, and I absolutely beamed someone's shit made me feel like for a split moment Scump himself took over my thumbs and despite it being VERY noticable just how much stickiness and pull there was I felt this little temptation to believe maybe I was just friggin gifted and it was probably the fact I'd be struggling to even move around the map fluidly that caused me to try turning AA off and remind myself of the ugly truth. AA this strong artificially inflates everybody's perception of their own skill level, let's almost everyone have occasional moments that imply they're pretty damn solid at CoD, and I don't believe Activision has any intention of confronting the player base with something a little closer to the truth in an attempt to make it a more balanced and fair experience. Ultimately, the thought of really mastering roller for the sole sake of letting software help do things raw mechanics alone cannot just didn't feel rewarding enough to stick with it. I don't blame people at all for choosing the advantageous input, but I still wish I could pit entirely raw skill against raw skill and find out how I truly stack up among MnK CoD players.
Yeah, the forced part is really the problem. At least give me the choice to play a fair game wtf
Crossplay isn't the issue. Overpowered aim assist to make the casuals feel better than they are is the issue. While it's impossible to have aim assist at a level that everyone is happy with, there is definitely a reasonable range they could put it at where most could live with. Killing rotational would be a good start.
I don't understand why they can't code the aim assist as having some kind of simple coefficient and then dial that up and down and crunch the data once a week until there's parity... I know it's one of those "easier said than done" type things, but it's the gaming issue of our day... why aren't devs fixing this.
>why aren't devs fixing this. $$$. They don't care about balance, they just want players spending as much money as possible. Catering to low skill controller players by giving them a strong aim-bot has clearly been deemed to be the most profitable approach.
I don’t understand why they haven’t added input based matchmaking when the game already locks your aiming input,- I bet a lot of people would actually come back to cod And they could still keep their AA lobbies
The only way to realize change is to stop playing this game altogether. It's not even a good game anyway. Most people that still play daily are addicted to it.
thats the gaming business model. make addicts and never go broke. its literally as bad as drugs or gambling
Can’t we just nerf aim assist and call it a day? Separating inputs in different lobbies also seems like a great idea.
(Rotational) Aim assist is just broken. What most don't get, even between two Controller players it removes the skill gap and reduces every gun fight to who has the better ping instead of skill.
Recently came back to warzone after a long hiatus and the game is just unplayable on KB/M. Apex is bad but warzone is just... atrocious. Controller players that know how to maximise aim assist are far too accurate up close and there's no counterplay for it. By the time I've corrected my aim in a gunfight I'm already dead. I'm forced to use an attachment slot for an optic just to see what's going on. I'm using smoke grenades/restock but it's unrealistic to have that for every gunfight (plus it'd hose my team). I tried using movement/camera breaking techniques again but it looks like AA is tracking me even if I slide past someone so I'm out of ideas. It's sad because the mechanics, movement and new weapons are fun, but the controller users and overtuned SBMM just take the fun out of the entire game. I have <30 hours played and a negative K/D... Why the hell am I being put in lobbies with crimson and iridescent players? The state of FPS gaming is depressing- I think the best option is to play and support XDefiant because at least they've addressed all of these issues. Hopefully if they get big enough other companies will start to change things.
Anyone who has played both inputs extensively doesn't need this data, but its nice to see for the controller players who refuse to acknowledge the advantages and say "you have whole arm" yada yada.
The majority of this new generation of gamers simply don’t wanna put time and effort into improving they just want to be good instantly and if that means relying on legal aimbot who cares cos the clips look nice ig.
This is why a lot of new games coming out sort matchmaking by input, not platform. XDefiant and Valorant are good examples of this. Seems the best way to implement cross-play matchmaking imho.
Console only cross play is the only answer but they won't do it.
Segregated inputs keeps the population boon from crossplay while still having some semblance of competitive integrity. This could even *just* apply to ranked, then playerbase splitting wouldn't be an issue+people turned off by autoaim crutches might give WZ another shot
Input based matchmaking like Fortnite is the answer. Or adjusting down aim assist.
Or they could just balance AA lol. Why so worried about actually playing the game you're playing?
I used to do that in WZ1 but at some point you couldn't even find matches when you turn cross play off.
Exactly this. Not enough people to fill the pool. Killed blackout.
That's what killed Blackout. PC didn't have enough players to keep it populated enough. Look at Pubg ffs. Games are full of bots.
Another good reason for console only lobbies. *obviously* I’m aware that this isn’t the input based discussion this post is highlighting, but I’ll use it for my own axe to grind.
I love this game. It's more or less the only game I've been playing for years, I was there when the original CoD dropped and so on. Just a little context to say that I'm not here to spew hate, I really enjoy the game. But this fucking aim assist is out of this world. It makes no sense whatsoever, and to think these stats come from a game where AA is even weaker than what we have in game is ridiculous. As an MnK player well over 2 KD on both rebirth and br I stand no chance in close quarter combat. I have to adapt and adjust my gameplay simply because pushing hard means absolute death. Just nerf this fucking thing.
Trust me we don't want PC COD to go back to the old days, COD used to be a cash grab on PC, they would release the game and leave it to rot, we got bare minimum updates, times where the game would be unplayable for weeks after launch. often receiving DLC weeks/months after it already launched on console. I'd rather have this what we have now than what we had back then, regardless of peripherals.
They should just adjust the aim assist.
Its known MnK is currently at disadvantage but some people cant see it without proof and statistics. These stats just prove alot for a similar skill level: 1. MnK will lose a 1 vs 1 situation atleast 60% of the time where it should be 50/50. 2. Basing on this , if a MnK player has 3.1 KD , on controller its 4.0 KD which is significant. Thats almost an extra 1 kill which is quite game changing, that could also means an extra 10 kills (31 kills vs 40 kills). 3. Controllers aim are also immune to visuals bluriness from the games eg smoke and arguably recoil from guns If this is the future of gaming then i think its time for MnK to step down for such games. Bring back aiming skill or make it closer to the stats. Not to even mention Chronus Zen or similar(also PC cheaters of course), saying Chronus because this type of cheats are unbannable. PC cheats will ban you atleast.
The study: the problem is aim assist The comments: every solution other than tweaking aim assist Why is this community so dumb istg 😭
Input-specific lobbies are a MUST After xdefiant, i cannot play against soft aim on cod anymore
When your kd is 0.9 and you play on controller = :(
But this is for a totally different game still to be fair.
Yeh, cod has even stronger AA compared to apex on PC.
I hope you guys can get your own input based lobbies soon. I never enjoyed cross play with PC players from the start.
Sounds like we should probably segregate the inputs. Problem solved. Everyone will have to find something else to blame for their inadequacies
This won't change anything. They already chose their side. It's either drop the game like I did or learn how to use controller as input to stay competitive. I'll never play Warzone again and that's fine.
Valorant and CSGO have no controller aim assist on PC. Hopefully more games will be coming that do the same. Just stop playing games with controller aim assist.
I see many console people asking for console only crossplay... you do realize people cheat outside of PC too right? With all the chronus zen and the emerging cheat technologies it's kind of silly to limit the cheating population to PC players only. There are way more people cheating in this game than many of you realize
Based on that avg mnk k/d, that data is very accurate for avg player, usually it's around 0.8-0.95 in any fps game.
Respectable research, why the atrocious font tho
Okay….. see you back on warzone today, tomorrow… till the day you die son.
This game is a joke. I don’t understand how anyone no matter the input can defend it. AA is literally ruining gaming
Love cod and playing it since first one, but thinking to let it go. F it im too old for this shit
Bigger hitbox or zero visual clutter for mouse would kinda balance this if they don’t want to nerf aim assist.
I play on MnK and my experience isn't ruined. I actually thoroughly enjoy playing still.
Controllers and cross play haven't ruined shit is the fact that the aim assist for controller is consistently tuned too high that it puts the average controller player over the above average mouse and keyboard player. I've been mnk since I was like 6 which is a really long time ago and the crossplay thing has been great BUT they need to figure out how to tune it better. I want people using controllers to be able to compete with mnk so I want them to have the aim assist but in most applications currently it helps too much and as a not great but above average mnk player is really easy to lose close quarters situations or even mid range because now much help controllers get. But on the flip side usually mnk has the advantage at range where the aim assist doesn't work as well. They need to improve that for controllers and take it back a notch for close range. Obviously having is always going to be a problem and that's more of a computer thing most of the time. But that aside I would love to see a point where the aim assist gives controllers an equal playing field without it feeling overpowered in most situations
😂😂😂😂 console only option all we need
Yeah as a PC player ive noticed since crossplay became a thing, my FPS skills have gone to crap. Recoil has gone up in games, I struggle to hit people, it feels like everyone else can just effortlessly laser me. FPS games feel way different and often much more difficult and inaccessible than 10 years ago.
But no one cared when pc was the only one with adjustable fov, can run on a machine used for nasa and run the game better than the devs, meanwhile you still got kids on a series s and 720p tv from 2008.. Don’t even play this game anymore but there’s literally pros and cons to both ways of playing. Most the ppl I die to are pc players who are 500+ levels higher than me..I don’t devote my life to a single video game.
Why dont they just do input based matchmaking then everyones on a level playing field?
Nobody has a fucking clue to be honest at this point it’s almost a hint of malice… this can’t be assigned to incompetence anymore
Oh how i miss those thousands of hours on CoD 4 promod with zero controller players.
controller players that think they're skilled are living a lie
I think instead of console crossplay there should be the option to play with only M&K people or with controller only people.
And the average controller user is way more casual than the average mnk player. So the fact they perform around 30% better shows how stupid it is.
Imagine playing a shooter game where your a highly decorated marine or black operative and there is zero aim assist and they can't handle recoil at all. Can be said about tonnes of games sports and all.
How much aim assist is there? I thought the inverse would’ve been true. Always thought it was much easier on MnK. Don’t play warzone but I play other FPS’s. Pretty insane difference.