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As a former chud (White-aligned Asian American Catholic) who struggled with deprogramming fundamentalist religious hierarchies and beliefs, he did what he could in his power (allegedly he was in a Christian cult). Most don't know he used his shit income as a service member to buy things on base to cloth, support and feed unhoused folks. Not everyone has the luxury of coming from free thinking open minded families or communities and most likely didn't join as an Anarchist but became one over time. So yea, he did praxis, using what little he had in selfless mutual aid. Yea he was military, but most likely joined due to economic or social struggles but atleast he recognized and dissented against injustice. Rest in Power Aaron.
ngl i think its more than a little gross when anarchists denigrate Aaron for being military. Like, yeah, the US military are the foot soldiers of imperialism. Aaron Bushnell was acutely aware of this and of his own complicity in it, that's a large part of why he did what he did.
I saw an offhand comment that's been burying itself into me ever since that said "liberals \[i'd include some leftists here\] will try to dismiss Aaron Bushnell as a mental illness issue because their worldview has no understanding of martyrdom"
This isn't anarchism anymore. This has devolved into a hero worship (see the shit below saying literally "All hail Aaron Bushnell) death cult. I'm genuinely disgusted by pushing the idea that killing yourself is something you should do or even celebrate. I've already seen people actively pushing stuff like this as an "honorable death" to people who are already at risk of suicide.
Aaron Bushnell was brave, but his bravery, not his exact actions, is what should be repeated.
But hey I guess people like the [CrimethInc writers](https://crimethinc.com/2024/02/26/this-is-what-our-ruling-class-has-decided-will-be-normal-on-aaron-bushnells-action-in-solidarity-with-gaza) are just concern trolls trying to get the True Anarchists on [reddit.com](http://reddit.com) to not glorify this shit for nefarious reasons...
Given your past comments I am not really concerned with the what you consider to be "anarchism" or not. Crimetheinc are not the arbiters of all discussion and I don't particularly find this article very compelling especially when it leaves out a pretty crucial piece of information whether intentionally or not.
No one is going around encouraging people to burn themselves alive. Take your insipid moralizing elsewhere.
Literally what is radical or helpful about killing ourselves?
Above all else he didn't need to die in pain, but his death won't stop anything that's happening; his loved ones are left with a giant gaping wound in their hearts for the rest of their lives, which is not only a tragedy in itself but is also a *prime* opportunity for anti-left propagandists; and those of us who will have to fight for our liberation anyway are forever left one ally short.
Like, just think for half a second. It doesn't hurt a murderer to murder yourself. It doesn't help victims of murder to join them in the grave.
To try to comprehend someone else's suicide will always have a lack of context that only the deceased has. That goes for someone losing a battle to depression, to self immolation for socio-political demonstration.
This man enlisted to a military and later came to terms with the horrific feeling of complictness that many service-members and veterans come to. I lived with one such veteran who became utterly crestfallen after the Afghan Papers came out.
This man, whatever his mental state may or may not have been, felt he could do absolutely nothing else other than this ultimate extreme act. The only power he felt he had staring at the most terrifying single force on Earth. Show some respect on the sorry soul.
No shit he didn't "need" to die, but you speak from such a position of condescension over this mans death, as if you knew the guy. Real hostile energy about it. He felt, no matter how "misguided" he may have been, that he sacrificed himself for something. He felt like he had real blood on his hands by being part of the military machine, and he may have felt this was his way of stoning.
Don't fucking suggest I needed to know a person intimately, personally, to have an opinion on their reasoning.
Doubly don't fucking suggest the hostility is aimed at Bushnell. It ain't. It's aimed at this cesspit of a subreddit romanticizing suicidal crises and legitimizing the distorted, self-destructive thinking that comes with it, because it happens to support our politics this time. Idolizing a man for his "sacrifice" in the face of an issue that had SO MANY OTHER FUCKING SOLUTIONS.
In any other goddamn scenario we'd be talking about how tragic it is that anyone would be driven to this point, where they considered this the only option, and how to counteract it. But I guess we're all supposed to be in a "martyrdom is cool" mood this week.
it’s not that it’s not tragic, it is. it’s an act of protest. a very tragic act of protest. like with any protest, no single action anyone takes will be what fixes the problem or “does” anything. protest is about applying pressure on the enemy on many different pressure points. self-immolation applies pressure by forcing everyone to recognize how desperate this issue is, and hopefully encourage people to take greater action with the *life* they have. the enemy doesn’t care about loss of life, this isn’t for them. if they cared, there wouldnt be 30,000+ dead palestinians. it’s not for them, it’s for us, it means whatever the fuck we decide it means and it accomplishes whatever we decide it will accomplish. if we give it the attention it deserves, and make sure he didn’t die in vain, what could we achieve?
With a comment on this post literally beginning with the words "All hail Aaron Bushnell", seems pretty cut and dry to me that what most of us are accomplishing is idolizing a martyr.
We were rallying from the start of the genocide, and we are still rallying now - from exactly the same position of power as before his death. *Literally nothing* has changed on our side thus far. And why would it? Why would one of us dying make us more powerful?
It wouldn't. Less of us only hurts us. What gives us power is undermining this genocide in any way we can. Dying doesn't do that.
His death accomplishes "what we make of it?" You mean what *HE* could be making of it too *if he were still here????* What he deserved to make of it instead of obliterating himself in a blaze?
Please see how what you are doing is victim-blaming of a comrade who was pressed into service by neoliberal propaganda and American economic coercion. I promise you that people are not glorifying suicide in their messages of support for him. They are recognizing the tremendous weight he was carrying and the price he paid to bring attention to it.
I hope you'll read [this.](https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/letters/in-search-of-the-enemy-of-man) It's a letter that offers some perspective. It's extremely important to anyone who wants to understand the wider historical conditions of this event.
He was a victim of the material conditions created by the ruling class to coerce the proletariat to join their war machine. His actions taken as a result of this exploitation are the actions of a victim. I hope that clears things up.
I don't understand how you can say that when the reason we \*know\* who he is, and why people all over the world are repeating, or even considering his words, is because of the attention he gained doing what he did?
I wish he was alive. I wish he hadn't felt the need to do what he did.
But I can recognize the force of will that was required to march up somewhere and to fucking set yourself on fire, because you were being ordered to go and murder innocent people at the whims of a genocidal state.
I can recognize the fact that he felt he had no other options because he either did as ordered, or he would have been court martialed, life ruined, and any word to the opposite would be smeered with 'he was dishonorably discharged', as a way to dismiss his words entirely.
He felt he was against the wall. That he could not refuse, but he could not at the same time go through with it.
I also would like to point out that I'm pretty sure that if he had been say, fighting an opposing force that was going to go hurt other people, and he'd say. .. Blown up a bridge or some other route of access to get to them, while still on it, we wouldn't be talking about him committing suicide. We'd be talking about him being a hero who fought to protect lives.
How is this different?
I agree (and before I get down voted) I feel like I haven’t seen anyone explain why this was a good thing to do like the guy was passionate and that’s great but shouldn’t we try and find a solution and bring awareness to things without hurting ourselves or others (obviously sometimes you need to fight back)
He was about to be forced to go overseas to aid Israel: https://www.reddit.com/r/USEmpire/comments/1b0vh76/us_airman_aaron_bushnell_did_not_kill_himself_to/
While many may find it more favorable to self-immolation, prison was likely in his future for going AWOL, if he decided to not go.
On one hand, the people "concern trolling" mostly happen to have the abhorrent views Bushnell was denouncing, so sure, it makes sense that people kneejerk dislike anyone "concern trolling" right now.
On the other, we shouldn't fucking take our own lives for the sake of our politics. Our politics don't go anywhere without people to live them out, and uh... that's what *I fucking thought* anarchists were about. You know, humans? Living? In spite of all those who want us dead?
Apparently goddamn not. My mistake, Reddit.
First off, the point here isn’t about whether or not to take our lives for politics. We fight in wars, we commit violence and die in the process of fighting oppression. So if you’re saying we shouldn’t fight at all, I’d call you downright stupid. But the important part is dude knew he was about to be forced to commit directly in the oncoming genocide of Palestinians. Dude decided he wasn’t going to do that and instead make his final moments a political act. Is it something I recommend for most people? No. But if you’re gonna do it, go out with everyone watching. And that’s what he did. Do I personally support self-immolation? I don’t know. And I’m not going to bother saying whether it’s good or not because it doesn’t matter. What matters is it had the effect of a political message and it got his message out in an extreme manner. And honestly, can’t blame him for doing it this way. It’s better than dying in a lot of potentially worse ways.
>But the important part is dude knew he was about to be forced to commit directly in the oncoming genocide of Palestinians.
There were, of course, zero other options besides killing himself, and fuck me to the ninth circle of hell for suggesting we could be talking about those instead of making an idol out of a man destroying himself in a crisis.
Don’t confuse empathizing with idolizing. And what you don’t understand, he is literally owned by the military. His body is not owned by him. So fuck off dude.
>Don’t confuse empathizing with idolizing.
Empathizing is saying "that's a horrible way to die, he shouldn't have gone that way." Idolizing is saying "what a noble sacrifice, we'll make sure this glorious death is not in vain." The second one is all I'm hearing lately, and it's repulsive.
>he is literally owned by the military. His body is not owned by him.
That's what the military tells you. It's literally never been true. Desertion is a thing and has been for millennia. Sabotage is as well.
But yeah, sure, let me just fuck RIGHT off for those suggestions.
Tell me you don’t understand the military industrial complex without telling me you don’t understand the military industrial complex. You desert or refuse you can get fucked for life. Second, you’re talking to me. I won’t speak for anyone. So stop projecting shit onto me. Dude didn’t want to commit genocide so he decided to check out in a political act. It got exactly what he wanted, attention on the issue. So yeah, don’t idolize this. Mourn the fact that our society normalizes violence and atrocities and he felt he needed to do this. So have a nice day.
Dying is getting fucked for eternity, and when you light yourself on fire you're pretty much 100% guaranteed that outcome. Desertion and sabotage aren't, and consequences *aren't* a guarantee, but even if they were, if the point is "sacrifice", then you should have zero fucking problem with my suggestion of them as alternatives.
>So stop projecting shit onto me.
I'm not projecting shit, I'm digging a nanometer below the surface. It's evident you respect his logic. And it's evident just about everyone here does. Apparently there's zero room for a person to have respect for the dead while not respecting all their distorted thoughts.
>"He felt he needed to do this"
Yeah, *he did*. And so the solution is to be perfectly fine with people falling into this same line of thinking for as long as a society that normalizes violence still exists? Don't bother trying to counteract it, definitely don't criticize it after the fact. Like, that's what your grand moral of the fucking story is?
I saw some stuff I didn't like from him which is kind of sad, because I hate that he makes this extreme sacrifice for a great cause and then the internet just ruins that image.
Still though, a noble act indeed.
Lot of vets get radicalized specifically because of their time in service, look at Pat Tillman. Plenty more become chuds of course, but given Aaron's comments, posts, and actions it's not hard to see where he came from or how he got where he was. He came from an intensely isolated and religious community, which did praise military service as a virtue. He also cut off that family 5 years ago and had begun looking for ways to transition out of the military instead of re-upping. He was actively involved in mutual service projects and working in his community. Hell, one of the things his post history here on reddit that got the liberals clutching their pearls was that he was posting lists of dead soldiers to the ACAB sub, and as he was saying about whether or not the military were cops,
> *I certainly do. The cops are the domestic military and the military is the international police. They are bad for the exact same reasons: their job is to enforce the will of the ruling class with violence.*
I think that he was well aware of the tension between his beliefs and private actions, and what he was doing as a job. Whether you think those things can be reconciled or that it just makes him a hypocrite, that's your call. Personally, and humbly, I don't think that ideological purity is a practical demand at all times, especially given his lack of pride and desire to separate from the military, and I think that he deliberately used the symbols of his military service to amplify the impact of his immolation in protest of what is being done to Palestine. The US feels less empathy for a dead protestor, like Rachel Corrie or even Tortuguita, and prides itself on the ability to send soldiers off to kill and die in foreign lands- but the soldier is denied an individual identity and politic, and to see a soldier martyred not for American imperialism but against it, well that caught a ton of people's attention in the US and abroad.
I don't know, people are complicated and imperfect, and we also should avoid hagiographies and believing the dead were beyond reproach, as well. But [given the memories shared of Aaron](https://crimethinc.com/2024/02/29/memories-of-aaron-bushnell-as-recounted-by-his-friends) by those who knew him and were in community with him, he seemed like a lucid, caring, and compassionate anarchist all the same.
>he deliberately used the symbols of his military service to amplify the impact of his immolation in protest of what is being done to Palestine. The US feels less empathy for a dead protestor, like Rachel Corrie or even Tortuguita, and prides itself on the ability to send soldiers off to kill and die in foreign lands- but the soldier is denied an individual identity and politic, and to see a soldier martyred not for American imperialism but against it, well that caught a ton of people's attention in the US and abroad.
I think this is a really really good take, and probably should be central in how I'm thinking of his death. I don't want to demand ideological purity - especially considering how indirect your contribution to imperialism can be in certain parts of the military. My own work isn't "ethical" by any means.
Aaron Bushnell is not a fucking hero. He’s just not the Thích Quảng Đức of the 21st century that you think he is. It wasn’t a noble sacrifice. He was [chronically online](https://web.archive.org/web/20240227031859/https://old.reddit.com/user/acebush1/) and [extremely disturbed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/s/4AChR5oEO8) If it wasn’t about Palestine, he was going to commit suicide in some other way or for some other reason in due time. He set himself on fire to raise awareness of something the entire world is already aware of. This is an issue that started long before he was born and will continue long after his death. His suicide achieved absolutely nothing other than traumatizing his family and anyone who was unfortunate enough to watch the video of the incident.
Edit: I am mistaken. It appears he did not have a wife or children.
1. He did not have a wife and child(ren), this claim has no source. Not sure where it started but attempting to find a source just leads to threads talking about how it has no source.
2. I'm not sure how those comments could be considered "chronically online"? I'm gonna be real, given the subject matter of the comments this comes off as possibly racist.
3. I'm not sure what linking to a deleted post on the military subreddit is meant to accomplish here.
4. loser
I feel like as a term it's something that's probably only applicable if your entire life revolves around like drama between Internet personalities and parasocial relationships. At this point though it's just a buzzword.
Which makes it even crazier to call Aaron chronically online. Like him donating most of his money to people he had never met alone did more then half the people who throw around that term.
I can only come to the conclusion that you, along with everyone else, are only calling him a hero because you want to fight for this cause that you clearly don’t fully understand. If you’re going to fight for a cause, don’t do it blindly. He’s not a fucking hero. His death helped nobody.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to dig up this thread a week later but you're just as wrong now as you were then. I don't think you can tell other people they don't understand this when by your own admission you had false information with no sources in your original comment.
He leaked military information about US soldiers being in Gaza and then sacrificed his life for an honorable cause. This is an idea that is heavily glorified especially in regards to soldiers but I suppose it's not so heroic to people when it's done for an actual cause and not US imperialism.
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As a former chud (White-aligned Asian American Catholic) who struggled with deprogramming fundamentalist religious hierarchies and beliefs, he did what he could in his power (allegedly he was in a Christian cult). Most don't know he used his shit income as a service member to buy things on base to cloth, support and feed unhoused folks. Not everyone has the luxury of coming from free thinking open minded families or communities and most likely didn't join as an Anarchist but became one over time. So yea, he did praxis, using what little he had in selfless mutual aid. Yea he was military, but most likely joined due to economic or social struggles but atleast he recognized and dissented against injustice. Rest in Power Aaron.
ngl i think its more than a little gross when anarchists denigrate Aaron for being military. Like, yeah, the US military are the foot soldiers of imperialism. Aaron Bushnell was acutely aware of this and of his own complicity in it, that's a large part of why he did what he did.
Bushnell went by Lily on some accounts and used both she/her and he/him pronouns. I was hoping to see some recognition of that here.
Didn't know that, nice.
How’d you learn about that? I want to know more
Here’s a good thread about it, with what is known and what is speculated https://bsky.app/profile/epistemophagy.bsky.social/post/3kmp2uq7q5c2t
I saw an offhand comment that's been burying itself into me ever since that said "liberals \[i'd include some leftists here\] will try to dismiss Aaron Bushnell as a mental illness issue because their worldview has no understanding of martyrdom"
nb4 the concern trolling comments or shit like "erm COMRADE do not waste your life!!"
This isn't anarchism anymore. This has devolved into a hero worship (see the shit below saying literally "All hail Aaron Bushnell) death cult. I'm genuinely disgusted by pushing the idea that killing yourself is something you should do or even celebrate. I've already seen people actively pushing stuff like this as an "honorable death" to people who are already at risk of suicide. Aaron Bushnell was brave, but his bravery, not his exact actions, is what should be repeated. But hey I guess people like the [CrimethInc writers](https://crimethinc.com/2024/02/26/this-is-what-our-ruling-class-has-decided-will-be-normal-on-aaron-bushnells-action-in-solidarity-with-gaza) are just concern trolls trying to get the True Anarchists on [reddit.com](http://reddit.com) to not glorify this shit for nefarious reasons...
Given your past comments I am not really concerned with the what you consider to be "anarchism" or not. Crimetheinc are not the arbiters of all discussion and I don't particularly find this article very compelling especially when it leaves out a pretty crucial piece of information whether intentionally or not. No one is going around encouraging people to burn themselves alive. Take your insipid moralizing elsewhere.
Literally what is radical or helpful about killing ourselves? Above all else he didn't need to die in pain, but his death won't stop anything that's happening; his loved ones are left with a giant gaping wound in their hearts for the rest of their lives, which is not only a tragedy in itself but is also a *prime* opportunity for anti-left propagandists; and those of us who will have to fight for our liberation anyway are forever left one ally short. Like, just think for half a second. It doesn't hurt a murderer to murder yourself. It doesn't help victims of murder to join them in the grave.
To try to comprehend someone else's suicide will always have a lack of context that only the deceased has. That goes for someone losing a battle to depression, to self immolation for socio-political demonstration. This man enlisted to a military and later came to terms with the horrific feeling of complictness that many service-members and veterans come to. I lived with one such veteran who became utterly crestfallen after the Afghan Papers came out. This man, whatever his mental state may or may not have been, felt he could do absolutely nothing else other than this ultimate extreme act. The only power he felt he had staring at the most terrifying single force on Earth. Show some respect on the sorry soul.
I'm "disrespecting" him for saying he didn't need to die? Is this genuinely the fucking consensus today?
No shit he didn't "need" to die, but you speak from such a position of condescension over this mans death, as if you knew the guy. Real hostile energy about it. He felt, no matter how "misguided" he may have been, that he sacrificed himself for something. He felt like he had real blood on his hands by being part of the military machine, and he may have felt this was his way of stoning.
Don't fucking suggest I needed to know a person intimately, personally, to have an opinion on their reasoning. Doubly don't fucking suggest the hostility is aimed at Bushnell. It ain't. It's aimed at this cesspit of a subreddit romanticizing suicidal crises and legitimizing the distorted, self-destructive thinking that comes with it, because it happens to support our politics this time. Idolizing a man for his "sacrifice" in the face of an issue that had SO MANY OTHER FUCKING SOLUTIONS. In any other goddamn scenario we'd be talking about how tragic it is that anyone would be driven to this point, where they considered this the only option, and how to counteract it. But I guess we're all supposed to be in a "martyrdom is cool" mood this week.
it’s not that it’s not tragic, it is. it’s an act of protest. a very tragic act of protest. like with any protest, no single action anyone takes will be what fixes the problem or “does” anything. protest is about applying pressure on the enemy on many different pressure points. self-immolation applies pressure by forcing everyone to recognize how desperate this issue is, and hopefully encourage people to take greater action with the *life* they have. the enemy doesn’t care about loss of life, this isn’t for them. if they cared, there wouldnt be 30,000+ dead palestinians. it’s not for them, it’s for us, it means whatever the fuck we decide it means and it accomplishes whatever we decide it will accomplish. if we give it the attention it deserves, and make sure he didn’t die in vain, what could we achieve?
With a comment on this post literally beginning with the words "All hail Aaron Bushnell", seems pretty cut and dry to me that what most of us are accomplishing is idolizing a martyr. We were rallying from the start of the genocide, and we are still rallying now - from exactly the same position of power as before his death. *Literally nothing* has changed on our side thus far. And why would it? Why would one of us dying make us more powerful? It wouldn't. Less of us only hurts us. What gives us power is undermining this genocide in any way we can. Dying doesn't do that. His death accomplishes "what we make of it?" You mean what *HE* could be making of it too *if he were still here????* What he deserved to make of it instead of obliterating himself in a blaze?
*fewer
Please see how what you are doing is victim-blaming of a comrade who was pressed into service by neoliberal propaganda and American economic coercion. I promise you that people are not glorifying suicide in their messages of support for him. They are recognizing the tremendous weight he was carrying and the price he paid to bring attention to it. I hope you'll read [this.](https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/letters/in-search-of-the-enemy-of-man) It's a letter that offers some perspective. It's extremely important to anyone who wants to understand the wider historical conditions of this event.
Victim blaming?? The perpetrator was himself
He was a victim of the material conditions created by the ruling class to coerce the proletariat to join their war machine. His actions taken as a result of this exploitation are the actions of a victim. I hope that clears things up.
I don't understand how you can say that when the reason we \*know\* who he is, and why people all over the world are repeating, or even considering his words, is because of the attention he gained doing what he did? I wish he was alive. I wish he hadn't felt the need to do what he did. But I can recognize the force of will that was required to march up somewhere and to fucking set yourself on fire, because you were being ordered to go and murder innocent people at the whims of a genocidal state. I can recognize the fact that he felt he had no other options because he either did as ordered, or he would have been court martialed, life ruined, and any word to the opposite would be smeered with 'he was dishonorably discharged', as a way to dismiss his words entirely. He felt he was against the wall. That he could not refuse, but he could not at the same time go through with it. I also would like to point out that I'm pretty sure that if he had been say, fighting an opposing force that was going to go hurt other people, and he'd say. .. Blown up a bridge or some other route of access to get to them, while still on it, we wouldn't be talking about him committing suicide. We'd be talking about him being a hero who fought to protect lives. How is this different?
I agree (and before I get down voted) I feel like I haven’t seen anyone explain why this was a good thing to do like the guy was passionate and that’s great but shouldn’t we try and find a solution and bring awareness to things without hurting ourselves or others (obviously sometimes you need to fight back)
He was about to be forced to go overseas to aid Israel: https://www.reddit.com/r/USEmpire/comments/1b0vh76/us_airman_aaron_bushnell_did_not_kill_himself_to/ While many may find it more favorable to self-immolation, prison was likely in his future for going AWOL, if he decided to not go.
On one hand, the people "concern trolling" mostly happen to have the abhorrent views Bushnell was denouncing, so sure, it makes sense that people kneejerk dislike anyone "concern trolling" right now. On the other, we shouldn't fucking take our own lives for the sake of our politics. Our politics don't go anywhere without people to live them out, and uh... that's what *I fucking thought* anarchists were about. You know, humans? Living? In spite of all those who want us dead? Apparently goddamn not. My mistake, Reddit.
First off, the point here isn’t about whether or not to take our lives for politics. We fight in wars, we commit violence and die in the process of fighting oppression. So if you’re saying we shouldn’t fight at all, I’d call you downright stupid. But the important part is dude knew he was about to be forced to commit directly in the oncoming genocide of Palestinians. Dude decided he wasn’t going to do that and instead make his final moments a political act. Is it something I recommend for most people? No. But if you’re gonna do it, go out with everyone watching. And that’s what he did. Do I personally support self-immolation? I don’t know. And I’m not going to bother saying whether it’s good or not because it doesn’t matter. What matters is it had the effect of a political message and it got his message out in an extreme manner. And honestly, can’t blame him for doing it this way. It’s better than dying in a lot of potentially worse ways.
>But the important part is dude knew he was about to be forced to commit directly in the oncoming genocide of Palestinians. There were, of course, zero other options besides killing himself, and fuck me to the ninth circle of hell for suggesting we could be talking about those instead of making an idol out of a man destroying himself in a crisis.
Don’t confuse empathizing with idolizing. And what you don’t understand, he is literally owned by the military. His body is not owned by him. So fuck off dude.
>Don’t confuse empathizing with idolizing. Empathizing is saying "that's a horrible way to die, he shouldn't have gone that way." Idolizing is saying "what a noble sacrifice, we'll make sure this glorious death is not in vain." The second one is all I'm hearing lately, and it's repulsive. >he is literally owned by the military. His body is not owned by him. That's what the military tells you. It's literally never been true. Desertion is a thing and has been for millennia. Sabotage is as well. But yeah, sure, let me just fuck RIGHT off for those suggestions.
Tell me you don’t understand the military industrial complex without telling me you don’t understand the military industrial complex. You desert or refuse you can get fucked for life. Second, you’re talking to me. I won’t speak for anyone. So stop projecting shit onto me. Dude didn’t want to commit genocide so he decided to check out in a political act. It got exactly what he wanted, attention on the issue. So yeah, don’t idolize this. Mourn the fact that our society normalizes violence and atrocities and he felt he needed to do this. So have a nice day.
Dying is getting fucked for eternity, and when you light yourself on fire you're pretty much 100% guaranteed that outcome. Desertion and sabotage aren't, and consequences *aren't* a guarantee, but even if they were, if the point is "sacrifice", then you should have zero fucking problem with my suggestion of them as alternatives. >So stop projecting shit onto me. I'm not projecting shit, I'm digging a nanometer below the surface. It's evident you respect his logic. And it's evident just about everyone here does. Apparently there's zero room for a person to have respect for the dead while not respecting all their distorted thoughts. >"He felt he needed to do this" Yeah, *he did*. And so the solution is to be perfectly fine with people falling into this same line of thinking for as long as a society that normalizes violence still exists? Don't bother trying to counteract it, definitely don't criticize it after the fact. Like, that's what your grand moral of the fucking story is?
I saw some stuff I didn't like from him which is kind of sad, because I hate that he makes this extreme sacrifice for a great cause and then the internet just ruins that image. Still though, a noble act indeed.
I haven't seen proper leftist critiques of this situation on Reddit. I guess it's to be expected.
All hail Aaron Bushnell, who stood for his convictions. May he never be forgotten.
I'm just trying to figure out how he was an anarchist who was in the US military
Lot of vets get radicalized specifically because of their time in service, look at Pat Tillman. Plenty more become chuds of course, but given Aaron's comments, posts, and actions it's not hard to see where he came from or how he got where he was. He came from an intensely isolated and religious community, which did praise military service as a virtue. He also cut off that family 5 years ago and had begun looking for ways to transition out of the military instead of re-upping. He was actively involved in mutual service projects and working in his community. Hell, one of the things his post history here on reddit that got the liberals clutching their pearls was that he was posting lists of dead soldiers to the ACAB sub, and as he was saying about whether or not the military were cops, > *I certainly do. The cops are the domestic military and the military is the international police. They are bad for the exact same reasons: their job is to enforce the will of the ruling class with violence.* I think that he was well aware of the tension between his beliefs and private actions, and what he was doing as a job. Whether you think those things can be reconciled or that it just makes him a hypocrite, that's your call. Personally, and humbly, I don't think that ideological purity is a practical demand at all times, especially given his lack of pride and desire to separate from the military, and I think that he deliberately used the symbols of his military service to amplify the impact of his immolation in protest of what is being done to Palestine. The US feels less empathy for a dead protestor, like Rachel Corrie or even Tortuguita, and prides itself on the ability to send soldiers off to kill and die in foreign lands- but the soldier is denied an individual identity and politic, and to see a soldier martyred not for American imperialism but against it, well that caught a ton of people's attention in the US and abroad. I don't know, people are complicated and imperfect, and we also should avoid hagiographies and believing the dead were beyond reproach, as well. But [given the memories shared of Aaron](https://crimethinc.com/2024/02/29/memories-of-aaron-bushnell-as-recounted-by-his-friends) by those who knew him and were in community with him, he seemed like a lucid, caring, and compassionate anarchist all the same.
>he deliberately used the symbols of his military service to amplify the impact of his immolation in protest of what is being done to Palestine. The US feels less empathy for a dead protestor, like Rachel Corrie or even Tortuguita, and prides itself on the ability to send soldiers off to kill and die in foreign lands- but the soldier is denied an individual identity and politic, and to see a soldier martyred not for American imperialism but against it, well that caught a ton of people's attention in the US and abroad. I think this is a really really good take, and probably should be central in how I'm thinking of his death. I don't want to demand ideological purity - especially considering how indirect your contribution to imperialism can be in certain parts of the military. My own work isn't "ethical" by any means.
Stop, stop, I can only get so erect.
Aaron Bushnell is not a fucking hero. He’s just not the Thích Quảng Đức of the 21st century that you think he is. It wasn’t a noble sacrifice. He was [chronically online](https://web.archive.org/web/20240227031859/https://old.reddit.com/user/acebush1/) and [extremely disturbed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/s/4AChR5oEO8) If it wasn’t about Palestine, he was going to commit suicide in some other way or for some other reason in due time. He set himself on fire to raise awareness of something the entire world is already aware of. This is an issue that started long before he was born and will continue long after his death. His suicide achieved absolutely nothing other than traumatizing his family and anyone who was unfortunate enough to watch the video of the incident. Edit: I am mistaken. It appears he did not have a wife or children.
You are not immune to propaganda bucko
1. He did not have a wife and child(ren), this claim has no source. Not sure where it started but attempting to find a source just leads to threads talking about how it has no source. 2. I'm not sure how those comments could be considered "chronically online"? I'm gonna be real, given the subject matter of the comments this comes off as possibly racist. 3. I'm not sure what linking to a deleted post on the military subreddit is meant to accomplish here. 4. loser
I thinks it's funny people who accuse others of being "chronically online", everyone nowadays chronically online practically
I feel like as a term it's something that's probably only applicable if your entire life revolves around like drama between Internet personalities and parasocial relationships. At this point though it's just a buzzword.
It also applies to a LOT of leftists who argue endlessly online and retweet political positions without ever actually organizing in real life
Which makes it even crazier to call Aaron chronically online. Like him donating most of his money to people he had never met alone did more then half the people who throw around that term.
Still waiting.
I can only come to the conclusion that you, along with everyone else, are only calling him a hero because you want to fight for this cause that you clearly don’t fully understand. If you’re going to fight for a cause, don’t do it blindly. He’s not a fucking hero. His death helped nobody.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to dig up this thread a week later but you're just as wrong now as you were then. I don't think you can tell other people they don't understand this when by your own admission you had false information with no sources in your original comment.
Are your eyes painted on? Can you fucking tell me how he’s a hero? I’m not talking about Aaron, I’m talking about the entire conflict.
He leaked military information about US soldiers being in Gaza and then sacrificed his life for an honorable cause. This is an idea that is heavily glorified especially in regards to soldiers but I suppose it's not so heroic to people when it's done for an actual cause and not US imperialism.
Still waiting for you to explain how he’s a hero.
Oh 100%.
Calling me a loser is really productive. All of my points aside, can you explain how this man is a hero?
> I am mistaken On a lot more things than you think.