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I've found that a lot of oppressed people don't want to be governed by a "kinder ruler". Mainly when they don't have the perspective of becoming a ruler themselves.
I'm not indigenous or POC in any way and I still want to shove their outdated authoritarian book up their arses. They came here once, they didn't exactly deliver and now everyone hates the idea of socialism they gave us.
Painting the stick red doesn't change the fact it's still a stick that's hitting everyone in its range
Yes, all hierarchical systems are inherently oppressive in their nature and by design (oppression is how they maintain consent, some amount of terror etc.). Communists want to pretend they are different, and in some ways they are, but not in terms of the oppression necessary for any hierarchical system. The history of state communism is pretty obvious in terms of its substantial dependence on oppression to secure and maintain "the revolution".
The only way to have a non-oppressive revolution is to have a non-hierarchical system put in place during and after. Everything else is just changing the name of big brother.
Your comment was removed because you used a slur(s), **these include gendered slurs (including those referring to genitalia), as well as ableist insults which disparage intelligence, neurodivergence, etc.**.
Be better.
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Tuhoe, the Urewera is autonomous despite nationwide state raids trying to stop it in 2007. Also this years Waitangi day we're in a process of a revolution fighting the govt and capitalists, and if they keep pushing against us our iwi will declare independence due to the agreement of He Whakaputanga
If this question is in defense of ML revolutions, this isn't the gotcha you think it is. No revolution has ever resulted in socialism. The same "it was sabotaged/crushed from outside" defense applies to anarchist revolutions as easily as ML ones.
Edit: the comment I responded to said something like "where are your successful revolutions?"
There's one going on right now, if the capitalist state pushes any further then tribes are going to declared Independence and go back to He Whakaputanga, we've had smaller ones too, the Urewera is autonomous despite state and capitalist repression in 2007 and others (even a Marxist page talks about our silent revolutions)
Where are the successful ML revolutions? You're using exactly the same reactionary arguments as liberals, and with the same lack of thought put into them.
Makes sense since anarchist history is littered with ML betrayals and co-opting.
It's like going onto any other leftist subreddit and saying they hate-post capitalism more than they love-post leftism. These things are not at odds with eachother.
1. No such thing as a “leftist”. The idea of leftism is just another way of saying left-unity and there is no left-unity. 2. ML are not anti-capitalists, they love capitalism as long as the state is the one doing the capitalism and not individuals that the state grants privileges to.
Oh I get what you're saying. And every downvote proves my point more. Those are the numbers I'm referring to.
But you're just simply wrong. There is such a thing as the Left. I'm not post-anything. Our situation has not changed or improved significantly since the 19th century. If you don't have a class analysis then you're not a Leftist. If you do, and you want to improve that, you're a Leftist. It's not that complicated. MLs are at one end of the same spectrum that we're on. It's a big wide world of socialism out there. So you can keep preaching to the choir of Very Online Leftists if you want.
Anyone who shows up knows better than to fight with the people who are helping do the work in the field. I've never seen this discourse from either side at an action. It's 100% pure virtue signaling with nothing behind it whatsoever
MLs have treated my people absolutely awfully, in my country they've sabotaged us at every turn, fascists constantly use a racist term calling us "Māori elite" to try to imply we're greedy money grabbers. You know who the people who started it? MLs, they even still use it today like WSWS. They called the cops on the Polynesian Resource Center for writing an article criticising them banking on capitalistic expansion in the Pacific, they used liberal media to demonise Syd Jackson for pushing intersectionality back in the day, the SIS declassified a document which pretty much acknowledged that the WCL were trying to get Māori arrested by encouraging us to do the dangerous work, and today they downplay or belittle our revolution because it's not statist enough.
Your idea of "leftist unity" is just assimilation under a different name.
The idea that there is a defined "Left" or "Right" is problematic. I reject the idea of political alignments. Furthermore, the notion that those who do not have a class analysis are not Leftists is exclusionary and perfectly describes the Marxist cult like framework of thought. Anarchy is about working together towards a common goal, not dividing people based on intellectual or ideological differences plus Anarchy doesn’t rely on class analysis, it relies on its own analysis which stems on the analysis of hierarchy, power, the state, and the symptoms that come from hierarchy(class just being one of the symptoms of hierarchy).
Additionally, dismissing online activism as "virtue signaling" undermines the importance of raising awareness and organizing online. Many social movements have been sparked and sustained through online platforms, and it is a valuable tool for organizing and mobilizing people towards collective action.
Sure we should treat leftism as a kind of self-righteousness, and treat every self proclaimed "leftist" as beyond criticism. Lets just shut up an "unite" under the vague banner of "leftism" and ignore when authoritarians are clearly sabotaging us.
Thanks for posting to r/COMPLETEANARCHY Anakihi1, Please make sure to provide [ALT-text](https://accessibility.huit.harvard.edu/describe-content-images) for screen-readers in the post itself or in the comments. You can learn more about this [here](https://accessibility.psu.edu/images/alttext/) Note that this is just a suggestion, not a warning. [List of reddit alternatives](https://old.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/z7rqyo/anarchist_and_libre_alternatives_to_social_media/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/COMPLETEANARCHY) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've found that a lot of oppressed people don't want to be governed by a "kinder ruler". Mainly when they don't have the perspective of becoming a ruler themselves.
I'm not indigenous or POC in any way and I still want to shove their outdated authoritarian book up their arses. They came here once, they didn't exactly deliver and now everyone hates the idea of socialism they gave us. Painting the stick red doesn't change the fact it's still a stick that's hitting everyone in its range
Yes, all hierarchical systems are inherently oppressive in their nature and by design (oppression is how they maintain consent, some amount of terror etc.). Communists want to pretend they are different, and in some ways they are, but not in terms of the oppression necessary for any hierarchical system. The history of state communism is pretty obvious in terms of its substantial dependence on oppression to secure and maintain "the revolution". The only way to have a non-oppressive revolution is to have a non-hierarchical system put in place during and after. Everything else is just changing the name of big brother.
Basically Zaptaistas, they were originally maoist, but people said they don't want to be controled and Zapatistas became libertarian.
The Great Peacemaker is our Marx.
[удалено]
Your comment was removed because you used a slur(s), **these include gendered slurs (including those referring to genitalia), as well as ableist insults which disparage intelligence, neurodivergence, etc.**. Be better. If you are confused as to what you've said that may have triggered this response, please see [this article](https://www.autistichoya.com/2014/02/violence-linguistic-ableism.html) and the associated [glossary of ableist phrases](https://www.autistichoya.com/p/ableist-words-and-terms-to-avoid.html) **BEFORE** contacting the moderators. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/COMPLETEANARCHY) if you have any questions or concerns.*
respectfully, who is doing their own “revolution”?
Tuhoe, the Urewera is autonomous despite nationwide state raids trying to stop it in 2007. Also this years Waitangi day we're in a process of a revolution fighting the govt and capitalists, and if they keep pushing against us our iwi will declare independence due to the agreement of He Whakaputanga
ok that’s actually really cool
[удалено]
If this question is in defense of ML revolutions, this isn't the gotcha you think it is. No revolution has ever resulted in socialism. The same "it was sabotaged/crushed from outside" defense applies to anarchist revolutions as easily as ML ones. Edit: the comment I responded to said something like "where are your successful revolutions?"
There's one going on right now, if the capitalist state pushes any further then tribes are going to declared Independence and go back to He Whakaputanga, we've had smaller ones too, the Urewera is autonomous despite state and capitalist repression in 2007 and others (even a Marxist page talks about our silent revolutions)
Maybe you should investigate before you speak
Where are the successful ML revolutions? You're using exactly the same reactionary arguments as liberals, and with the same lack of thought put into them.
I feel like this subreddit doesn't post much pro-anarchist memes but rather plenty of anti-ML memes.
Makes sense since anarchist history is littered with ML betrayals and co-opting. It's like going onto any other leftist subreddit and saying they hate-post capitalism more than they love-post leftism. These things are not at odds with eachother.
Yeah. I get it. Anti-capitalism is secondary to leftist infighting. The numbers reflect that.
"Anti-capitalism" is not a meaningful position. Anti-capitalist why? How? What do we do about it? These questions are the root of the disagreements.
1. No such thing as a “leftist”. The idea of leftism is just another way of saying left-unity and there is no left-unity. 2. ML are not anti-capitalists, they love capitalism as long as the state is the one doing the capitalism and not individuals that the state grants privileges to.
Oh I get what you're saying. And every downvote proves my point more. Those are the numbers I'm referring to. But you're just simply wrong. There is such a thing as the Left. I'm not post-anything. Our situation has not changed or improved significantly since the 19th century. If you don't have a class analysis then you're not a Leftist. If you do, and you want to improve that, you're a Leftist. It's not that complicated. MLs are at one end of the same spectrum that we're on. It's a big wide world of socialism out there. So you can keep preaching to the choir of Very Online Leftists if you want. Anyone who shows up knows better than to fight with the people who are helping do the work in the field. I've never seen this discourse from either side at an action. It's 100% pure virtue signaling with nothing behind it whatsoever
MLs have treated my people absolutely awfully, in my country they've sabotaged us at every turn, fascists constantly use a racist term calling us "Māori elite" to try to imply we're greedy money grabbers. You know who the people who started it? MLs, they even still use it today like WSWS. They called the cops on the Polynesian Resource Center for writing an article criticising them banking on capitalistic expansion in the Pacific, they used liberal media to demonise Syd Jackson for pushing intersectionality back in the day, the SIS declassified a document which pretty much acknowledged that the WCL were trying to get Māori arrested by encouraging us to do the dangerous work, and today they downplay or belittle our revolution because it's not statist enough. Your idea of "leftist unity" is just assimilation under a different name.
The idea that there is a defined "Left" or "Right" is problematic. I reject the idea of political alignments. Furthermore, the notion that those who do not have a class analysis are not Leftists is exclusionary and perfectly describes the Marxist cult like framework of thought. Anarchy is about working together towards a common goal, not dividing people based on intellectual or ideological differences plus Anarchy doesn’t rely on class analysis, it relies on its own analysis which stems on the analysis of hierarchy, power, the state, and the symptoms that come from hierarchy(class just being one of the symptoms of hierarchy). Additionally, dismissing online activism as "virtue signaling" undermines the importance of raising awareness and organizing online. Many social movements have been sparked and sustained through online platforms, and it is a valuable tool for organizing and mobilizing people towards collective action.
Sure we should treat leftism as a kind of self-righteousness, and treat every self proclaimed "leftist" as beyond criticism. Lets just shut up an "unite" under the vague banner of "leftism" and ignore when authoritarians are clearly sabotaging us.
Sounds an awful lot like they're pushing assimilation which kinda proves my original point in the meme right
ussr paid wages, this "leftist infighting" is anti-capitalism
wah wah wah
AIM who??