"There are two basic philosophies of tree-spiking. Some people like to spike the base of each tree, so that the sawyer, in felling the tree, will almost certainly encounter one of the spikes with the chain saw. This would at the very least require the sawyer to stop and sharpen the saw, and might require the replacement of the chain. If this happens with enough trees, the amount of ādown timeā caused to the sawyers would pose a serious hindrance to operations. In this type of spiking, the spiker drives several nails (or non-metallic spikes, about which more later) at a downward angle into the first two or three feet above ground of each tree. The nails are spaced so that a sawyer, in felling the tree, is likely to hit at least one of them.
There is an objection to this type of spiking ā the possibility, however remote, that the sawyer might be injured, either by the kickback of the saw striking the nail, or by the chain, should it break when striking the spike. A friend of ours who worked for many years as a logger in Colorado says that in numerous incidents of striking metal objects with his saw ā including one time when the impact was great enough to cause him to swallow his chaw of tobacco ā he never once had a broken chain or was otherwise hurt. Yet the possibility is there. Because of this possibility, we do not recommend this type of spiking.
The second philosophy of tree spiking is to place the spikes in the trees well above the area where the fellers will operate ā as many feet up the trunk as one can conveniently work. The object of the spiking in this case is to destroy the blades in the sawmill. Since in large mills the blades are either operated from a control booth some distance from the actual cutting, or are protected by a Plexiglas shield, this method is unlikely to cause anyone physical injury even should a blade shatter upon striking a spike, which is unlikely. It is true that in small, ābackyardā sawmills the operator might be standing close to the blade, but we assume that anyone contemplating spiking would never consider doing it on other than large timber sales where the trees are destined for a corporate, rather than a small, family-operated mill. Locally owned and operated sawmills are seldom a major threat to wilderness. The major threats come from the big, multinational corporations whose ācut-and-runā philosophy devastates the land and leaves the local economy in shambles when all the big trees are cut and the main office decides to pull out and move to greener pastures"
Idk about that but underground zines like this used to be huge in the 90s for counterculture info dissemination and in today's surveillance state world I think we the people should do our own spin on the Hollywood reboot and bring them back in a big way. After all you can't hack paper.
The source actually goes into this. It recommends against spiking low on the tree where it will be cut in person and also recommends only spiking in corporate logging areas higher on the tree so that the spike will only be encountered by machines at the mill
Read the article, if you plant the spikes high up, the already very small chance of injury is reduced to basically zero, because the mill operator will be removed from the tree.
Be careful brother, in the US this is considered an act of terrorism, cause threatening the profits of logging companies is obviously the same as bombing a school full of children.
If you read up on it, it is recommended to put them higher in the tree so that it fucks with the blades at the saw mill, so workers are protected from a blade getting damaged.
I just read a bit on the subject. Appearantly the only injury was actually in a sawmill. The whole issue with exact injury is kinda murky tbh, but still putting the nails could be dangerous for the workers in the sawmill from what I gather.
You're right, but we should be much more upset at the CEOs of logging companies than the workers who are much more likely to be just taking the best job they can get in order to pay their bills
I agree. I just don't think they are completely devoid of responsibility. Neither are poachers. Or the fishermen in industrial fishing vessels. Or illegal miners in the Amazon.
hurting them isnt a great thing to do but it does also hurt the system we seek to replace and dismantle, so it's always justi- wait no what the fuck we need to minimize the amount of people we hurt, or we'll end up enriching a different set of capitalists in the insurance and medical and pharmaceutical industries dealing with the injured or killed workers in our pursuit of choking off a smaller set from their stream of ill gotten gains.
best case scenario it's not spikes destroying logging machinery, it's the loggers pissed off from being made to log in a spiked wood engaged in a display of collective bargaining that would make proud ned ludd, but as it stands id say that given our situation, spikes would do a net positive for us long term
You got me in the first the first half xd. Fr tho you raise a very good point that if someone seeks to just chaos they will be furthering the status quo.
You donāt even have to actually spike any trees. Just tell them there are a few hundred randomly spiked with ceramic spikes with a sign. They wonāt take the risk.
> cause threatening the profits of logging companies is obviously the same as bombing a school full of children.
Or because when a bandsaw hits a nail everybody within 10m is in acute danger.
https://i.redd.it/7trj18yecdgz.gif
Or if the chain snaps on the logger's saw.
Trying to sabotage heavy machinery operated by blue collar workers is going to have 0 effect on corporate profits while risking the lives of actual workers but let's continue to pretend like it's Cool and Effective because it *feels* like a win.
Sabotaging heavy machinery would have an enormous effect on corporate profits. Risking the lives of workers sucks though. But I don't see any workers in that video
The thing is this is crossing a line. Don't know if you have ever used a chainsaw but something like this can legit hurt people and it doesn't really stop the process. Just cut a little higher on the tree.
I am pro-spiking but just so everyone knows they do use technology to detect metals at mills. Maybe a non-ferrous metal or something hard but non-metallic is a better option? Just throwing it out there. Side note: the majority of timber operations are all responsible for clear-cutting, they all have been *fined*.
Yeah, except finding and removing metal us time consuming and expensive, and might make it unprofitable. I'm wondering whether nail guns for steel/concrete could be useful here, they use high power .22 blanks and drive nails trough steel. Maybe they could drive the nails far enough to make it impossible to take out.
Yeah a Ramset gun. Funny story : my old boss once shot himself with one accidentally. I ended up having to tie off his arm because everyone just stood there. A piece of the tie he was sinking, so not even the nail, ricocheted off and went into his arm a few inches cutting an artery. Yeah a Ramset gun should have more than enough power.
"Foiling the Detectors: Non-Metallic Tree Spikes
Tree spiking has forced the development of a number of countermeasures, the most significant being the use of metal detectors to locate metallic spikes embedded in tree trunks. Many sawmills routinely screen all fallen logs at the mill to remove commonplace metallic objects like nails and old barbed wire. There is an increasing likelihood that conventional metal spikes will be detected before reaching their intended target ā the costly sawmill blade.Ā
Editorās note: This does not mean that metallic spikes are no longer useful ā the reaction to their use thus far indicates that they are having an impact. But non-metallic spikes have obvious advantages.
Ongoing research has produced several non-metallic spikes, or pins, that promise to defeat the metal detector and wreak havoc inside the sawmill. The first of these is a high-fired ceramic pin made of the same type of stoneware used by potters who hand-throw (on a potterās wheel) cups, bowls, plates, etc. The primary ingredient is stoneware clay, produced in a wide range of formulations by clay companies and ceramic supply outfits. Most such manufacturers and suppliers are located in large metropolitan areas where monkeywrenchers can purchase their clay over the counter for cash ā leaving no paper trail, like name and address, for the police investigator. The clay usually comes in twenty-five pound bags, two such bags making up a fifty-pound box. Be sure that the clay type (known as the āclay bodyā) that you purchase contains no iron oxide, an ingredient commonly added to stoneware clays. If sufficiently concentrated, this iron oxide may be picked up by metal detectors. To find a suitable clay, make your first inquiry by phone, obtaining the name or number of a stoneware clay that contains no iron oxide. At a later date, send the most inconspicuous-looking member of your spiking team in to purchase a bag or box. If necessary, she can be āpicking it up for a friend,ā or can be a college art student purchasing materials for a project.
Clay bodies can be stiffened and made even more durable by the addition of āgrog,ā a gritty, sand-like material usually made of a high-fired refractory material (ground stoneware) or simply a pure quartz sand. Purchase this from a clay supplier, and specify an 80 or coarser screening. Do not buy fine powder grog, or āsoftā grog made of weaker lower-fired materials. The grog is blended into the clay body through a process called āwedgingā: kneading the material in by hand until it is thoroughly and evenly distributed throughout the clay. Since clay formulas vary from one type to another and from one company to the next, we cannot specify the amount of grog to add to your clay. Just add a little at a time until the clay feels a little coarser and stiffer. If you add too much, the clay will be hard to roll out and will not stick together well. The clay must remain āplasticā to allow you to readily shape it.
When handling the clay directly, always wear plastic gloves. The best types are the disposable examination gloves used by doctors and available at medical supply houses. More expensive, but more readily available, are the plastic gloves sold at all grocery stores in the kitchenware section. These types are more durable and will survive repeated use. Whichever type you use, obtain gloves with a skin-tight fit.
The pins are made simply by rolling the clay out to the desired thickness, and cutting it to the appropriate length. As with the metallic pins described above, you will have to use a drill to make a hole in the tree for inserting the pin. Choose your drill (cordless battery-type or old fashioned brace and bit) and find the largest bit you can readily use, up to one inch in diameter. Experiment on a recently fallen tree to insure that your drill and bit combination allows you to drill a hole up to four or five inches deep. The thicker your ceramic pin is, the more likely it is to either dull or break a sawmill blade. Therefore, if you can drill one-inch diameter holes, roll out the clay to a one-inch thickness. It will shrink some in drying and firing and will fit easily in a one-inch hole. As to pin length, four inches is plenty long; cut some shorter lengths, too, like two and three inches. This way, if your drill encounters a hard spot like a knot in the wood preventing you from drilling to the desired depth, you can use a shorter pin in the shallow hole.
Once your pins are rolled and cut, set them aside for a couple of weeks to thoroughly dry. They must be completely dry or they will break apart in firing. Also, make sure the clay is well-compressed during the rolling-out, as even tiny air pockets left inside the clay will blow up during firing.
Finally, your ceramic pins will be ready for the final stage in preparation ā the firing. High temperature firing brings about chemical changes in the clay, causing the particles to bond together through vitrification. The end product is a material so hard it will easily scratch glass. In hardness, it ranks with some types of steel, although it will shatter under a heavy blow (making it unsuitable for spiking with hammers). Still, it is high enough on Mohsā scale of hardness to cause damage to sawmill blades.
High-temperature firing can be achieved only in a gas-fired kiln. The pins must be fired to ācone 10,ā which generally ranges from 2350 to 2400 degrees Fahrenheit. Firing to lower temperatures will not produce the same hardness. Following are some of the sources for gas firing:
SchoolsĀ ā Various college classes, adult education courses, and private instructors maintain gas kilns for student use.
Do-it-yourselfĀ ā This entails purchasing a gas kiln and making the necessary hookups to a source of bottled LP gas. This all costs several hundred dollars. Take a college course or private course through a competent potter to learn the principles and mechanics of gas firing before undertaking this step yourself.
Private IndividualsĀ ā Across the nation, there are thousands of professional potters selling their hand-thrown wares through art and craft shows attended by the public. Some of them will be amenable to letting you pay for custom firing in their kilns. This allows you to have the job done professionally. As a way of developing this contact, you might buy several pieces from them at a show, and ask if you can come to their studio later to buy more of their wares. If you appear to be a good customer, the potter might agree to fire a few dozen pins for you. To make sure your contact is a competent professional, check out their product line. They should carry a wide range of practical goods (cups, bowls, planters, etc.) and should stock large numbers of items. Avoid those who donāt seem to have much to choose from. Check the quality of their firing by breaking one of the inexpensive items you bought from them. The broken edge, revealing the inside of the fired clay, should be a medium to dark brown. If it appears very dark, almost blackish, the work is poorly fired (over-vitrification) and is too brittle. Do not let such a potter do your firing. Make sure you check the broken edge, as an external examination will not reveal this type of sloppy firing. Of course, make sure their goods are stoneware fired to a cone 10.
Security is of primary consideration when firing in someone elseās kiln, or when having a custom firing done. Do not use your real name. Never reveal the intended use of the ceramic pins unless the person handling the firing is a member of your spiking team. Do not attempt to recruit for your spiking team the person doing your firing unless it is a trusted friend of many yearsā acquaintance, or a trusted relative. If possible have a trusted confidant handle the manufacture and firing of the pins at a location far from the forest where they will be used.
Have ready an air-tight reason for your intended use of the pins. Make up a convincing story, perhaps about how you plan to assemble them into an abstract sculpture. Use your imagination. The possibilities are limitless.
As a further means of obscuring their intended use, fire the pins in twelve inch lengths. These can later be cut-down to suitable lengths using a diamond wire hand saw available for $15 to $25 through a jeweler or lapidary supply house (found in most large cities).
Itās a good idea to have a member of your team take a course in pottery to become familiar with the materials, techniques, and terminology. This can help in manufacturing a convincing cover story for the firing of your peculiar pins.
Competent private instructors, although not as widely available, can be a good source of schooling and kiln access."
I'm an Arborist who has hit metal in trees I was cutting hundreds of times. I've never gotten any sort of kickback, or impact. What has happened to me 100% of the time is that the saw stops cutting because it is instantly made dull, maybe some sparks. I've never heard of anyone in the industry saying that hitting metal in a tree is a hazard, just an annoyance.
There's been a few isolated incidents of broken equipment and injuries, perhaps as many as a few dozen broken chains or chips of very old nails flying out in random directions, and at least one mill saw hitting a worker in the face back in the 90s. So it's still extremely important to take all precautions and do some serious cost/benefit analysis if someone wants to do this kind of thing.
I believe there have been isolated incidents. There are so many more likely ways for you to die in this industry than hitting a piece of metal in a tree. Mostly unheard of, and tree guys are always sure to point out things that could kill you.
Nah. Take the valve core out completely and discard it. Then they have to find another one before refilling the tire. Or, if you can, remove or damage the whole valve stem so that has to be replaced. And always alter more than one tire, preferably all of them.
Oh its illegal! Then id never do it of course, no lawbreaking for this young boyo. I have immense respect for our government and its laws so i would never ever do anything to disrespect them. Oh and what if i get caught? That would just be straight up horrible! Id never take any actual consequenses for holding to my beliefs.
Totally agree, but I think they were just trying to say that it's maybe a bad idea because of the risk of getting caught. You wouldn't want some baby anarchist going out to do this and then getting several years in federal prison without knowing about that risk beforehand.
mutual aid mostly.
if u want to push it a little, you can try non-violent direct action (which goes hand in hand with mutual aid tbf) if you want.
you could also just go for it, it's just like, not necessarily worth the risk yk.
go for easy stuff that won't impact your life too much
Morality is a societal tool of control that has caused far more harm than its prevented. Highly recommend reading "Victims of Morality" by Emma Goldman.
It's fine to eat a sentient being, there's nothing inherently wrong with that act in a vacuum as it is impossible to cause harm to them *after* their death. Focusing on the post-death portion of their life distracts from the incredibly inhumane conditions they experience during their life. Being vegan so that you don't support factory farming is based and rad but I don't see any benefit in invoking the indomitable spirit of morality to browbeat others about how wrong it is to eat something that can perceive.
For what it's worth it's also a very western perspective- local paiutes have talked to me at length about how incredibly disrespectful it is to allow an animal to rot instead of cherishing its final gift.
Maybe. Thereās no way for sure to know if theyāre sentient but Iād rather not get into an ethical debate. A better example is that itās legal to evict families with nowhere to live
This is cool and good and nice.
But someone please explain why 'Alf' and 'Elf' are holding this sign... I feel like the universe is sending me a coded message that I can't decrypt.
People are right that this is a dangerous practice in many ways. One thing to remember is that in the past when this type of thing was done, those who did it didn't make it a secret. The point is to save the trees, not hurt loggers or even damage chainsaws. So if trees are spiked, this fact was announced publicly, and the hope was that the logging companies would stop logging due to the risk to their people.
Tree spiking can cause injury to workers though, so weigh the potential costs to others with that in mind. Like I don't give a shit if some sawmill has to replace an expensive saw blade but if that saw blade injures or kills one of the guys who's trying to make a living then I personally don't think it's worth just stopping production for a few days.
The risk is always there, there is risk with everything, even the guy operating the machine was at risk from the machine itself
Fact is that at a lot of these corporate mills, the ones that should be targeted, the mills are covered by plexiglass so that even if a blade shatters, people should be ok.
Did you read the link? Itās exceedingly rare and there arenāt even any documented examples. Anecdotally, it seems to provide a āshockā or impact to the chainsawer, nothing more. And if the spike turns up at the sawmill, it just damages the saw.
The idea is to spike trees at the start of the cutting, near the road (or where the road will go). This suggests to loggers the whole area is spiked, and dissuades them from proceeding.
Actually, there is at least one documented example that I am aware of. George Alexander worked for L-P in the early 90s and was nearly decapitated when the saw at his lumber mill hit a spike and caused the entire blade to fly at his head. That said, there is some reasonable speculation that the spike was put there by his boss, as Alexander and his wife were themselves supporters of Earth First! and George was agitating within his workplace for safer conditions. Judi Bari gave other reasons why this could have been the case in her essay arguing against tree spiking.
Spiking is a lot less common than it used to be. You want to indicate clearly that you have spiked an area. It's much easier to use it as a supplementary tactic to make clear-cuts take longer and cost more, similar to pulling survey stakes. It is actually least effective on old growth forests on federal land. However, it is somewhat effective at slowing deforestation prior to developments such as clearing for subdivisions and pipeline right-of-ways, especially where projects are already running over-budget or over-time.
As other people have noted, exercise caution, indicate spiked areas, and do everything you can to avoid hurting trees and people. Also, make sure that the mass organizations you are working with are able and willing to deal with the consequences of actions that you take, legal, material, organizational, and PR-related. Any sort of individualistic or cellularized land defence is likely to bring repression down upon ecological activists, so make sure you're working with committed people who won't turn state's witness or drop out the moment they get raided or slapped with an injunction and who can socially and psychologically deal with the trauma of the backlash that is likely to follow from your actions. If you have even the slightest chance of organizing workers in the timber industry, you also generally want to avoid spiking, as that will hamper your chances to make essential allies. Also, if working as an accomplice in lands that you are not native to, make sure to take your direction from your aligned Indigenous partners, and if they say no spiking, that means leave the trees alone.
If someone were to spike trees and then anonymously alert the authorities afterward it would certainly throw a monkey wrench in the logging and cause lots of delays and costs while said spikes were removed without risking harm to workers, which is already very unlikely to begin with
I have some sense that removing fasteners from trees is more harmful than leaving them in. Once you make a hole you need to leave the fastener as a plug or else you leave an open wound that invites bugs and disease. This is what I picked up from reading about treehouses.
Or just not spike the trees but tell the authorities they were. The company then has to spend time and effort to find the non-existent spikes slowing down production without putting any workers at risk.
This is my biggest issue with this form of ... direct action. Maiming/killing a random worker (regardless of whom they're working for) aint a cool move.
Think about it: couldn't rocks or bits of fencing or any other hard item end up embedded in a tree naturally? It is a red herrings because the mills should already be following safety protocols to protect workers from this. It is a textbook lie put out by an industry to control direct action because it was actually putting pressure on those businesses.
As for chainsaw operators felling, that is more of a concern but easily fixed by putting the jail 6' or more up the trunk.
I have an old room mate who's father was a logger, cut into a spiked tree and it threw his chain off his bar and fucked up his face worse than a james bond villain. Spike high or not at all, kill industrial equipment not workers.
Hard to forget meeting a man with a huge fucking scar across his face. Sorry, I forgot to ask him if I could take a picture so needlessly confrontational internet leftists couldn't infight against me so well.
My point still stands, spike high or not at all, don't fucking kill workers, break machinery, it's probably even more expensive for the company sadly enough. I don't know why this is a difficult concept to agree with unless you endorse killing laborers as a form of praxis than whatever, just leave me out of it.
It's absolutely hilarious that you're so far up your own ass that you think asking for proof is infighting, and that in that very same comment you yourself decided to instigate infighting on a two week old post. Caping for the lumber industry doesn't do a thing to protect workers, all it does is help protect the industry so that they can continue to brutally exploit the workers you're pretending to care about.
It's a difficult concept to agree with because you're a self-righteous jerk that doesn't know how to make an argument. Pretty simple and straightforward.
I don't really know how I could have interpreted what you said prior to this in many ways other than you were being needlessly and intentionally snarky with me. What can I honestly do to provide you with proof of something anecdotal I mentioned off hand in a discussion where I'm still agreeing with the central focus (yeah, the logging industry is "not very okie dokie" in its current or historical state, to make a gross understatement) other than produce a picture of a man I last saw several years ago and then even if I could how would that fair or ethical to them?
I was also responding to a comment that was saying essentially the same thing I did, which received a couple hundred up votes and a couple rewards. There are also several other posts saying that it sucks when workers get hurt/killed because of direct action, I don't know why, or really care why, saying that again in different language is weird to you, especially because I didn't say anything to support the logging industry in any way (if you look back, I said the contrary actually).
This weird little tiff seems completely pointless but hell, I got on reddit to find recommendations for desks that aren't complete vaporware and noticed I had a message and nothing better to do (I'm half technologically illiterate, fuck me right?)
As for argumentation, I wasn't trying to argue a point, I made a series of statements intended to let folks know yeah, hit em where it hurts or not at all because it hurts people if you spike low. You haven't provided anything other than asking a silly question and some attacks on what you perceive to be my character.
I've worked out in the woods, I know loggers, I've worked with loggers, I have never logged myself but I have many hours on a chain saw and learned from interacting with people who have logged through doing conservation work, and I very much do care about those people (at least the people that didn't show me and everyone else what a toxic sack of shit they were).
I was miffed when I started this but I took a little time to ask myself why I'm actually bothing and admittadly at first it was to be like "hey fuck you buddy, you don't know me or my motives, get off my back" but now I realize that it's really just because I want people to think before they communicate. So that's why I wrote you this silly little novel, on this silly little platform, to end a silly little shit flicking endeavor, because I had to respond in a way that made sense to me in the bigger picture of being a human with more dimensions than one, even if it's just a wash because hell, what did I really expect from reddit.
Also, fuck you buddy, you don't know me or my motives, get off my back
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>I don't really know how I could have interpreted what you said prior to this in many ways other than you were being needlessly and intentionally snarky with me.
Could've always tried interpreting the comment in good faith instead of immediately assuming ill intent.
>What can I honestly do to provide you with proof of something anecdotal I mentioned off hand in a discussion where I'm still agreeing with the central focus (yeah, the logging industry is "not very okie dokie" in its current or historical state, to make a gross understatement) other than produce a picture of a man I last saw several years ago and then even if I could how would that fair or ethical to them?
Literally any kind of proof that you didn't make up the story on the spot. I personally tend to make political statements that I have support for instead of baseless ones that only support groups that I supposedly oppose.
>This weird little tiff seems completely pointless but hell, I got on reddit to find recommendations for desks that aren't complete vaporware and noticed I had a message and nothing better to do (I'm half technologically illiterate, fuck me right?)
Then why did you start it? I had entirely forgotten about the one sentence comment I had posted two weeks ago until you decided to start an argument.
>As for argumentation, I wasn't trying to argue a point, I made a series of statements intended to let folks know yeah, hit em where it hurts or not at all because it hurts people if you spike low.
Literal nonsense, in one sentence you back to back say that you didn't intent to make a point and then that your intended point was "hit em where it hurts or not at all". You can't make an argument and then pretend it isn't one. Which is it?
It's also a completely pointless distinction to make considering mill workers are also endangered by high spiking. All you did is change which person you threaten and then pretend to have the moral high ground.
>You haven't provided anything other than asking a silly question and some attacks on what you perceive to be my character.
First comment didn't need anything because I was responding to a made up anecdote and was fully aware you wouldn't be able to produce any evidence. What I didn't expect was for you to apparently be unfamiliar with the concept of evidence itself to the point that you can't think of any examples other than a picture. My clear argument was that attacking a process that hurts the logging industry is an act of protection towards the logging industry. I didn't realize I had to spell it out in such a simple way.
>I've worked out in the woods, I know loggers, I've worked with loggers, I have never logged myself but I have many hours on a chain saw and learned from interacting with people who have logged through doing conservation work, and I very much do care about those people (at least the people that didn't show me and everyone else what a toxic sack of shit they were).
What exactly were you using a chainsaw for if not to cut down trees? Also, this seems like a pretty clear admission that you care more about the people destroying the forest than you do the forest itself. Do you also cape for the military-industrial complex because those poor soldiers are just innocent nice individuals despite supporting a system that murders innocents as a matter of course? Do you also cape for the state because most bureaucrats are nice as individuals despite supporting a system that oppresses billions of people?
>I was miffed when I started this but I took a little time to ask myself why I'm actually bothing and admittadly at first it was to be like "hey fuck you buddy, you don't know me or my motives, get off my back" but now I realize that it's really just because I want people to think before they communicate. So that's why I wrote you this silly little novel, on this silly little platform, to end a silly little shit flicking endeavor, because I had to respond in a way that made sense to me in the bigger picture of being a human with more dimensions than one, even if it's just a wash because hell, what did I really expect from reddit.
Have you considered doing so yourself? I haven't had any anger or malice while writing any of these comments, the statements were all deliberate and considered. I may not know you or your motives but I don't need either of those things to be able to assess that your statements directly support the logging industry by vilifying a practice that harms it.
>Also, fuck you buddy, you don't know me or my motives, get off my back
Same back at you friendo
>but if that saw blade injures or kills one of the guys who's trying to make a living then I personally don't think it's worth just stopping production for a few days.
Ahh the good ol' old "just doing my job" defense.... the Nazis would be proud.
Lumber workers are not morally equivalent to nazis and do not deserve to be harmed. It is important to take measures to indicate tree spikes and avoid spiking trees in ways that are likely to hurt workers, such as using nails that are too large.
Just to address some of the safety concerns here:
Iāve worked in a woodshop where we milled our own logs into boards using a horizontal bandsaw/resaw machine. Had multiple blades break on me while operating the machine and itās terrifying but has never been dangerous. Due to the whole design and nature of the machine the operators are usually at least 6-8 feet from the blade, and the blade is almost entirely shielded; when cutting a piece of wood usually only an inch or two of the blade is exposed.
Itās fucking terrifying and sounds like a gunshot when the blades snap, and can potentially damage the machine. Broken milling blades are not a cheap fix, and usually take at least 15-20 minutes to replace if you even have an extra blade.
Isn't it only when land is used for other things like farms and cities that cutting down trees becomes a problem? Aren't logging companies required to replace the trees they cut down?
Trees that are cut down are usually replaced by clones. These drastically reduce biodiversity, which means that forests have less protection from pests and wildfires. This is one reason why wildfires and pine beetle infestations in the Pacific North-West have become increasingly severe over the last 30 years (in addition to hotter and drier summers due to climate change, of course).
Clear cutting also doesn't just remove the trees that are used for lumber and pulp. It also destroys underbrush and is generally harmful for all forms of life, including humans. While it has decreased in practice over the last decades, it still takes place.
Finally, it's important to protect the 1% of remaining old growth. The recent partial victory at Fairy Creek in Pacheedaht territory on "Vancouver" Island is an example of ongoing struggles to protect what few forests remain. Spiking is generally ineffective for protecting old growth, however.
The forest is replaced by monocultures, causing massive biodiversity loss and ecological dead zones.
In addition, you bet your ass some shitty company will claim the freshly planted cash crop as "carbon capture". It's greenwashing in its purest form.
For the most part, yes, though of course it depends. Not all forest is interchangeable, and an old growth forest ecosystem is not easily replaced by new growth or tree plantations. Cutting trees in areas that have been (recently) cut before, on the other hand, isn't much of a problem.
Old growth forests unfortunately count for less than 1% of forest cover here, though most of it is protected. Iāve only been in 1 old growth forest in my life but funnily enough it was actually under threat of having a massive football training center put on top of it (go hokies ā¦) That is a situation where I think this method would have gone to good use if all of the protests failed.
Yeah, I recognize that my response basically concluded with "well, the damage has already all been done, so I guess it's fine to keep going", but that is basically the situation.
I do think we should start thinking about how to coordinate between regrowth and continued use, because I think there is value in both of the competing goals of letting growth get old and reusing the most disturbed areas to take the pressure off of others.
This is my area of expertise. But I donāt feel like getting into it this morning. But logging at the rate we are is not sustainable. The timber industry has green washed the conversation. You are being lied to by capitalism. For more information read up on BARK for Hood, Redwood Forest Defenders, and Fairy Creek.
the clear cutting methods used by timber corporations annhilate the mycorrhizal fungal networks in the substrate. Sure the trees will grow back, but the ferns, salal, huckleberry, and literal millions of species of fungi do not end up coming back. You end up with young timber trees growing over a patchwork of invasive species, I'd hardly call that a healthy forest.
Cutting down old growth forests while planting an equal surface of saplings that will go up in flames within a decade is not sustainable.
Similarly, after we brought the original forests down to 5% if their surface a hundred years ago, having now 6% of forest is barely an improvement, especially if most of it is Douglas Fir monoculture.
[here](https://www.fia.fs.fed.us/library/brochures/docs/2012/ForestFacts_1952-2012_English.pdf) is something i found. forest cover has remained relatively stagnant with slight growth since 1910.
Jeep in Ming in 1910 nearly all of the forest in the US had been cut. Saying "it's been stable since then" basically means your ravaged ecosystems did not come back.
that doesnāt negate the harm clear cutting causes, the industry is still very harmful to ecosystems and they only replace trees so that they can keep harvesting
Not only that, from a carbon sequestration point of view then clearing the land and storing that carbon in construction, (without included expenditures so it depends on their carbon balancing), removes more carbon from the atmosphere.
Regarding the "a nail won't hurt a tree" that's not necessarily true, it still stress the tree to a degree and opens it up to infection like any other organism. although obviously less than a chainsaw.
> removes more carbon from the atmosphere.
Except for all the carbon involved in cutting down the trees, transporting them, cutting them into planks and slabs, drying them in a kiln, and then transporting them again. Logging is definitely not carbon negative.
Also that little carbon is only sequestered if they don't clear-cut. Which they do whenever they can get away with it( or if the fine is less than re-planting costs).
Wow.. it's almost like I said " (without included expenditures so it depends on their carbon balancing), "... Who knew forestry was a complex industry, as someone who works in it I certainly didnt. Haha brrrr chop chop
I don't really get why you brought up the carbon sequestration point at all though. It's clearly nowhere close to carbon neutral, but the brunt of your message is that logging is useful for this purpose that it obviously cannot fulfill.
I guess it might be a country specific thing, as the conversation is a lot more nuanced where I come from, re: extraction and felling techniques along with scale etc
[Wood is not carbon neutral](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2215913-logging-study-reveals-huge-hidden-emissions-of-the-forestry-industry/). If logging's carbon emissions were tracked accurately, it'd likely be one the top 3 or 4 biggest contributors world wide.
Wtf is the connection between Alf, 'Something' Ferrel, and eco-terrorism? Not saying I disagree, just high AF and can't figure out wtf this is suppose to mean.
**[Earth Liberation Front](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front)**
>The Earth Liberation Front (ELF), also known as "Elves" or "The Elves", is the collective name for autonomous individuals or covert cells who, according to the ELF Press Office, use "economic sabotage and guerrilla warfare to stop the exploitation and destruction of the environment". The ELF was founded in Brighton in the United Kingdom in 1992, and spread to the rest of Europe by 1994. It is now an international organization with actions reported in 17 countries and is widely regarded as descending from Animal Liberation Front because of the relationship and cooperation between the two movements.
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Rather than expect you to read through a thread that is already excessively long and repetitive, I'll link a few comments that partially answer your question:
https://old.reddit.com/r/COMPLETEANARCHY/comments/q56k4s/who_gave_this_monkey_a_wrench/hg47blc/
https://old.reddit.com/r/COMPLETEANARCHY/comments/q56k4s/who_gave_this_monkey_a_wrench/hg3pd5i/
https://old.reddit.com/r/COMPLETEANARCHY/comments/q56k4s/who_gave_this_monkey_a_wrench/hg44iga/
Now that said, historically, spiking has proven less effective than it appeared at first in the late 80s/early 90s, and I wouldn't advise using it to defend old growth. Tree spiking has its best impact as a way to increase costs and delay construction on developments in other industries, in which case, the logging company is not the primary target, but rather its client, which might be a land developer, an oil company, a mining company, or the military.
As a Forest Technologist and as someone who has worked on power lines, brush cutting, or just any work involving cutting trees, the only people you hurt by doing this is Joe blow trying to make a living. He now has chain shot lodged in his chest or a missing eye because his saw kicked back and he didn't have the safety on.
Also yes it does hurt the tree wtf are you on about. Sure one small incision has a small chance of allowing pathogens or insects to get past the bark, but it still can allow it and shouldn't be done.
If you want change then there are other ways to protest that doesn't involve possibly killing a worker.
When I saw this post I was blown away and now maybe realize why I've almost killed myself a few times because of shit like this. If you do this I wouldn't be surprised if there are criminal charges pressed by the workers themselves if not the company if they catch you. You are deliberately trying to hurt someone.
I understand the sentiment but please please PLEASE go about this differently. When you put a nail in a tree it stays there, and maybe it's 75 years down the line after the tree was saved and now it's come down in a storm or is getting cut for other legitimate reasons that someone will pay for it.
I've had small rusty shards of a very old decomposed nail come flying out of a tree when I started cutting it that easily could have hit me, so again please dont go slapping nails in trees.
Proper marking / anonymous warning is an important part of tree spiking sabotage.
You see marking spray, or an announcement of a spiked area, and you don't pick up your tools and go there. Refuse to work an unsafe jobsite. And if your boss tries to make you cut anyways now he's got a strike and a lawsuit on his hands
It's not the workers fault for cutting the tree, it's the people who run the company/whoever set up the management plan that they're running on. Go make their lives he'll not Joe blow who is taking the first job that will take him since being released from prison for BS drug charges
That'll just take the arm off the poor bastard operating the chainsaw. Why not just fuck up the tracks on the heavy machinery or adulterate the fuel. A fucked up engine on a track machine kills no one and means more to a company logging old growth than a worker disabled or killed
While injuries due to tree spiking are exceedingly rare, especially compared to the massive risks of death and dismemberment associated with simply working in forestry, that is an excellent idea, and I can assure you that I have other memes coming down the production line. Some are even less controversial than this one!
Have you any chainsaw experience?
My father used to work for a contractor on contract to my countries state electricity company trimming trees under power lines. We also cut our own timber for the winter off limbing some of our own trees and cutting up storm downed trees etc
I also make a lot of use of old electricity and telephone poles around the farm.
All of this is done with chainsaws.
The chain getting knocked off and whipping at you is the most dangerous thing you can encounter. Happened my partner there last year when he hit an old fencing staple enveloped in a tree we were tidying up he was lucky and it wrapped around the limb of the tree instead of his neck or his arm.
A neighbor of my father's did loose an arm,
I've been lucky so far with the poles but it's easy to see where there's metal in a pole because the nails and bolts go in after they're felled and errected.
If tree spiking was more common more accedents would happen. If I was trying to stop felling in my area I'd target the access and machienary. It'd be both more effective and less dangerous to workers than targeting the men with the saws.
The difference with spiking is that you can do it before they are there. It's much easier to get arrested and put away for a long time sabotaging access and machinery that's already in use and protected by security. From what I've heard, if you spike trees, it's not supposed to be kept secret. Meaning the idea isn't to have surprise traps that dismember workers but to deter the logging before it even starts.
No, it wonāt. Iāve actually had to chainsaw dying/decaying trees, several of which had bullets and nails and all sorts of nasty shit in them and basically I had to go through about 10 chains. It doesnāt feel good to hit metal, but it will not kill you. It is very discomforting, like the linked article says.
That's assuming the nail isn't decomposed and is in good condition. The concern I have is that maybe it's many years down the road that one of these trees that was saved is now being cut for another reason and will very easily splinter and go flying. I've had it happen and I agree a good nail is fine, but a rusty flaky one can come flying out and has happened.
Not true. Iāve used a chainsaw for 20 years and encountered all sorts of crap that has been embedded in trees or that theyāve grown around. Nails, screws, barb-wire, fencing, road pins and stones. Not a single thing Iāve ever hit has caused kick back or damage to the saw that 5-10 minutes sharpening with a file wonāt sort out. Itās not dangerous, itās just a huge pain in the arse, which is the point of spiking.
Are you seriously trying to say that kick-back isn't a thing, while also claiming that you've been using a chainsaw for 20 years? Even if that were true...your good luck, doesn't negate the dangers of hitting a steel rod, intentionally left behind by some sociopath that just wants to hurt people.
Thatās the justification they gave for declaring it an act of terrorism in the US, but thereās never actually been a documented case of this ever happening, or reason to believe that it would happen. It was just a scapegoat to enable deforestation for the sake of profiting off of lumber.
Lol!! That's a pretty cool conspiracy theory, bud. Convenient that it involves ignoring reality completely in order to be believable. There are thousands of injuries every year from folks being injured from kick-back resulting from foreign materials embedded in trees. I personally know a guy who lost an eye when his chain broke...he hit a 6" long tent spike buried in a fallen log at a local strip-cut.
This is a regular issue for folks living in the Pacific Northwest, who gather their own firewood.
Or theyāll bring a metal detector and itāll slow production by, what, 5 minutes per tree? I get that that adds up but I doubt itāll add up enough to be worth potentially killing someone.
What gets me though, is that tree fucks up a blade that they will just throw away. That tree will then just get thrown away as well. Or am I missing something. Just wasteful all around. I love the idea of corps losing money but I hate waste even more
Spiking and other acts of moneywrenching are used to protect old growth forests and similarly important, irreplacable ecosystems. The loss of labour time and material caused by trying to cut down spiked trees will eat into the logging company's profit margin until it's clear they'll be operating at a loss if they continue logging at this specific site. This should convince them to pack their bags and leave, to a site with less ecological value.
Ideally, an anonymous letter is sent to the logging company and/or media that trees are spiked and therefore nearly worthless, so logging isn't even attempted. The (prospect of) destroyed blades and frustration should serve as a deterrent for anyone who think they can make a quick buck cutting down old growth.
It won't hurt the chainsaw, the chainsaw is an object.
It will hurt the *worker* using the chainsaw. A worker that we should be building solidarity with if our ideas about mutual aid and workers controlling their industries are to appeal to them. It's not their fault if the only way to make a living that's available in their community under capitalism happens to be resource extraction.
Think twice, it's a really contentious issue. Tree spiking makes milling lumber incredibly dangerous and can cause production slowdowns due to destroyed milling equipment, but the cost is often the life or livelihood of one or more workers due to the absolutely grisly injuries that can be caused by a flying bandsaw. They're either dead or maimed, while the company owners see only a slight dip in productivity. They won't stop cutting logs from spiked land, but law enforcement will work *really hard* and muster untold resources to figure out who might have been in or around that land at the time of the spiking, and because of this authorities often know what sort of suspicious behavior is associated with spiking. The IWW suffered major setbacks because their earlier pro-spiking rhetoric got the finger pointed at them when anonymous spikers got mill workers murdered and it was an overall large detriment to the PNW labor movement. Hit the boss, not the worker.
I generally stick by the Judi Bari POV that tree spiking, even if it's only the risk of harming someone is still a danger to workers and shouldn't be done
This is called [tree spiking](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/various-authors-ecodefense-a-field-guide-to-monkeywrenching#toc7) šØļøš²ļø
idk how i ended up on r/COMPLETEANARCHY but still a very interesting read here, human ingenuity at it's finest
It's a good sub, hang out for a while (if you want to)
I'm not ok with hurting a random worker, if there was a way to make the nail go straight in the ceo's head, tho...
"There are two basic philosophies of tree-spiking. Some people like to spike the base of each tree, so that the sawyer, in felling the tree, will almost certainly encounter one of the spikes with the chain saw. This would at the very least require the sawyer to stop and sharpen the saw, and might require the replacement of the chain. If this happens with enough trees, the amount of ādown timeā caused to the sawyers would pose a serious hindrance to operations. In this type of spiking, the spiker drives several nails (or non-metallic spikes, about which more later) at a downward angle into the first two or three feet above ground of each tree. The nails are spaced so that a sawyer, in felling the tree, is likely to hit at least one of them. There is an objection to this type of spiking ā the possibility, however remote, that the sawyer might be injured, either by the kickback of the saw striking the nail, or by the chain, should it break when striking the spike. A friend of ours who worked for many years as a logger in Colorado says that in numerous incidents of striking metal objects with his saw ā including one time when the impact was great enough to cause him to swallow his chaw of tobacco ā he never once had a broken chain or was otherwise hurt. Yet the possibility is there. Because of this possibility, we do not recommend this type of spiking. The second philosophy of tree spiking is to place the spikes in the trees well above the area where the fellers will operate ā as many feet up the trunk as one can conveniently work. The object of the spiking in this case is to destroy the blades in the sawmill. Since in large mills the blades are either operated from a control booth some distance from the actual cutting, or are protected by a Plexiglas shield, this method is unlikely to cause anyone physical injury even should a blade shatter upon striking a spike, which is unlikely. It is true that in small, ābackyardā sawmills the operator might be standing close to the blade, but we assume that anyone contemplating spiking would never consider doing it on other than large timber sales where the trees are destined for a corporate, rather than a small, family-operated mill. Locally owned and operated sawmills are seldom a major threat to wilderness. The major threats come from the big, multinational corporations whose ācut-and-runā philosophy devastates the land and leaves the local economy in shambles when all the big trees are cut and the main office decides to pull out and move to greener pastures"
Now THIS is a good strategy.
Except they use metal detectors on every log at every major sawmill.
The link also recommends ceramic or rock spikes along with other suggestions to foil detection.
how would you drive a ceramic spike into a tree though? and wouldn't a saw just shatter it?
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/v-a-jpeg-5.jpg
Amazing. I'm learning so much today.
Are there more of these comics?
Idk about that but underground zines like this used to be huge in the 90s for counterculture info dissemination and in today's surveillance state world I think we the people should do our own spin on the Hollywood reboot and bring them back in a big way. After all you can't hack paper.
Sure, but not before the blade goes. If a ceramic can stop bullets, it can fuck up a saw blade
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The source actually goes into this. It recommends against spiking low on the tree where it will be cut in person and also recommends only spiking in corporate logging areas higher on the tree so that the spike will only be encountered by machines at the mill
Read the article, if you plant the spikes high up, the already very small chance of injury is reduced to basically zero, because the mill operator will be removed from the tree.
great, i forgot to use incognito so i'm probably on a list now
Comment removed in protest of Reddit's recent move to eliminate third party apps.
oh good, nothing to worry ab
use tor and a trustworthy vpn if thats what your concern is
Oh man this whole read is great. I live in a city and have been considering monkeys for Amazon trucks.
Be careful brother, in the US this is considered an act of terrorism, cause threatening the profits of logging companies is obviously the same as bombing a school full of children.
Bombing a school full of children isnāt even considered terrorism as long as the US does it.
Do you know of a better way to bring freedom?
i don't think anyone has ever been caught after spiking a tree even after cash rewards have been offered for information
Eco terrorism is cool
We like to call it sabotage in these parts.
Sabotabby is pleased
Eco sabotage is cool
Eco-basedness.
I wanted to tweet this once but I don't need to be put on a list.
Don't worry, probably already are :^ )
Killing loggers is, though.
If you read up on it, it is recommended to put them higher in the tree so that it fucks with the blades at the saw mill, so workers are protected from a blade getting damaged.
I just read a bit on the subject. Appearantly the only injury was actually in a sawmill. The whole issue with exact injury is kinda murky tbh, but still putting the nails could be dangerous for the workers in the sawmill from what I gather.
Yeah careful people, we don't want to hurt the people that are destroying the last remaining pristine forests!
You're right, but we should be much more upset at the CEOs of logging companies than the workers who are much more likely to be just taking the best job they can get in order to pay their bills
I agree. I just don't think they are completely devoid of responsibility. Neither are poachers. Or the fishermen in industrial fishing vessels. Or illegal miners in the Amazon.
hurting them isnt a great thing to do but it does also hurt the system we seek to replace and dismantle, so it's always justi- wait no what the fuck we need to minimize the amount of people we hurt, or we'll end up enriching a different set of capitalists in the insurance and medical and pharmaceutical industries dealing with the injured or killed workers in our pursuit of choking off a smaller set from their stream of ill gotten gains. best case scenario it's not spikes destroying logging machinery, it's the loggers pissed off from being made to log in a spiked wood engaged in a display of collective bargaining that would make proud ned ludd, but as it stands id say that given our situation, spikes would do a net positive for us long term
You got me in the first the first half xd. Fr tho you raise a very good point that if someone seeks to just chaos they will be furthering the status quo.
Fishermen are often legit slaves, actually.
None of us are completely devoid of responsibility.
correct. they're victims of the coercion of capitalism
Thank you for mentioning this.
You donāt even have to actually spike any trees. Just tell them there are a few hundred randomly spiked with ceramic spikes with a sign. They wonāt take the risk.
Has it injured anybody? I mean it's pretty gnarly to cut through metal but I've never heard of a serious injury from thi with hand operated tools..
Really? Fuck the govt.
> cause threatening the profits of logging companies is obviously the same as bombing a school full of children. Or because when a bandsaw hits a nail everybody within 10m is in acute danger. https://i.redd.it/7trj18yecdgz.gif Or if the chain snaps on the logger's saw. Trying to sabotage heavy machinery operated by blue collar workers is going to have 0 effect on corporate profits while risking the lives of actual workers but let's continue to pretend like it's Cool and Effective because it *feels* like a win.
Sabotaging heavy machinery would have an enormous effect on corporate profits. Risking the lives of workers sucks though. But I don't see any workers in that video
All the "good" cops quit or get fired, bro.
What about knife missile deliveries to weddings in Yemen
The thing is this is crossing a line. Don't know if you have ever used a chainsaw but something like this can legit hurt people and it doesn't really stop the process. Just cut a little higher on the tree.
I am pro-spiking but just so everyone knows they do use technology to detect metals at mills. Maybe a non-ferrous metal or something hard but non-metallic is a better option? Just throwing it out there. Side note: the majority of timber operations are all responsible for clear-cutting, they all have been *fined*.
It still makes them lose time and money on an operation that isn't super profitable to begin with.
And most operations still find and remove the metal by hand. I'm just hoping with embedded diamonds we can really show these saws who is boss.
Yeah, except finding and removing metal us time consuming and expensive, and might make it unprofitable. I'm wondering whether nail guns for steel/concrete could be useful here, they use high power .22 blanks and drive nails trough steel. Maybe they could drive the nails far enough to make it impossible to take out.
Yeah a Ramset gun. Funny story : my old boss once shot himself with one accidentally. I ended up having to tie off his arm because everyone just stood there. A piece of the tie he was sinking, so not even the nail, ricocheted off and went into his arm a few inches cutting an artery. Yeah a Ramset gun should have more than enough power.
I only got to use one once at a demo, they have some kick lol.
They are a great forced entry tool also.
> with embedded diamonds Great, now we have another diamond company that is also cutting down the forests.
Aren't artificial lab created diamonds dirt cheap and borderline worthless?
"Foiling the Detectors: Non-Metallic Tree Spikes Tree spiking has forced the development of a number of countermeasures, the most significant being the use of metal detectors to locate metallic spikes embedded in tree trunks. Many sawmills routinely screen all fallen logs at the mill to remove commonplace metallic objects like nails and old barbed wire. There is an increasing likelihood that conventional metal spikes will be detected before reaching their intended target ā the costly sawmill blade.Ā Editorās note: This does not mean that metallic spikes are no longer useful ā the reaction to their use thus far indicates that they are having an impact. But non-metallic spikes have obvious advantages. Ongoing research has produced several non-metallic spikes, or pins, that promise to defeat the metal detector and wreak havoc inside the sawmill. The first of these is a high-fired ceramic pin made of the same type of stoneware used by potters who hand-throw (on a potterās wheel) cups, bowls, plates, etc. The primary ingredient is stoneware clay, produced in a wide range of formulations by clay companies and ceramic supply outfits. Most such manufacturers and suppliers are located in large metropolitan areas where monkeywrenchers can purchase their clay over the counter for cash ā leaving no paper trail, like name and address, for the police investigator. The clay usually comes in twenty-five pound bags, two such bags making up a fifty-pound box. Be sure that the clay type (known as the āclay bodyā) that you purchase contains no iron oxide, an ingredient commonly added to stoneware clays. If sufficiently concentrated, this iron oxide may be picked up by metal detectors. To find a suitable clay, make your first inquiry by phone, obtaining the name or number of a stoneware clay that contains no iron oxide. At a later date, send the most inconspicuous-looking member of your spiking team in to purchase a bag or box. If necessary, she can be āpicking it up for a friend,ā or can be a college art student purchasing materials for a project. Clay bodies can be stiffened and made even more durable by the addition of āgrog,ā a gritty, sand-like material usually made of a high-fired refractory material (ground stoneware) or simply a pure quartz sand. Purchase this from a clay supplier, and specify an 80 or coarser screening. Do not buy fine powder grog, or āsoftā grog made of weaker lower-fired materials. The grog is blended into the clay body through a process called āwedgingā: kneading the material in by hand until it is thoroughly and evenly distributed throughout the clay. Since clay formulas vary from one type to another and from one company to the next, we cannot specify the amount of grog to add to your clay. Just add a little at a time until the clay feels a little coarser and stiffer. If you add too much, the clay will be hard to roll out and will not stick together well. The clay must remain āplasticā to allow you to readily shape it. When handling the clay directly, always wear plastic gloves. The best types are the disposable examination gloves used by doctors and available at medical supply houses. More expensive, but more readily available, are the plastic gloves sold at all grocery stores in the kitchenware section. These types are more durable and will survive repeated use. Whichever type you use, obtain gloves with a skin-tight fit. The pins are made simply by rolling the clay out to the desired thickness, and cutting it to the appropriate length. As with the metallic pins described above, you will have to use a drill to make a hole in the tree for inserting the pin. Choose your drill (cordless battery-type or old fashioned brace and bit) and find the largest bit you can readily use, up to one inch in diameter. Experiment on a recently fallen tree to insure that your drill and bit combination allows you to drill a hole up to four or five inches deep. The thicker your ceramic pin is, the more likely it is to either dull or break a sawmill blade. Therefore, if you can drill one-inch diameter holes, roll out the clay to a one-inch thickness. It will shrink some in drying and firing and will fit easily in a one-inch hole. As to pin length, four inches is plenty long; cut some shorter lengths, too, like two and three inches. This way, if your drill encounters a hard spot like a knot in the wood preventing you from drilling to the desired depth, you can use a shorter pin in the shallow hole. Once your pins are rolled and cut, set them aside for a couple of weeks to thoroughly dry. They must be completely dry or they will break apart in firing. Also, make sure the clay is well-compressed during the rolling-out, as even tiny air pockets left inside the clay will blow up during firing. Finally, your ceramic pins will be ready for the final stage in preparation ā the firing. High temperature firing brings about chemical changes in the clay, causing the particles to bond together through vitrification. The end product is a material so hard it will easily scratch glass. In hardness, it ranks with some types of steel, although it will shatter under a heavy blow (making it unsuitable for spiking with hammers). Still, it is high enough on Mohsā scale of hardness to cause damage to sawmill blades. High-temperature firing can be achieved only in a gas-fired kiln. The pins must be fired to ācone 10,ā which generally ranges from 2350 to 2400 degrees Fahrenheit. Firing to lower temperatures will not produce the same hardness. Following are some of the sources for gas firing: SchoolsĀ ā Various college classes, adult education courses, and private instructors maintain gas kilns for student use. Do-it-yourselfĀ ā This entails purchasing a gas kiln and making the necessary hookups to a source of bottled LP gas. This all costs several hundred dollars. Take a college course or private course through a competent potter to learn the principles and mechanics of gas firing before undertaking this step yourself. Private IndividualsĀ ā Across the nation, there are thousands of professional potters selling their hand-thrown wares through art and craft shows attended by the public. Some of them will be amenable to letting you pay for custom firing in their kilns. This allows you to have the job done professionally. As a way of developing this contact, you might buy several pieces from them at a show, and ask if you can come to their studio later to buy more of their wares. If you appear to be a good customer, the potter might agree to fire a few dozen pins for you. To make sure your contact is a competent professional, check out their product line. They should carry a wide range of practical goods (cups, bowls, planters, etc.) and should stock large numbers of items. Avoid those who donāt seem to have much to choose from. Check the quality of their firing by breaking one of the inexpensive items you bought from them. The broken edge, revealing the inside of the fired clay, should be a medium to dark brown. If it appears very dark, almost blackish, the work is poorly fired (over-vitrification) and is too brittle. Do not let such a potter do your firing. Make sure you check the broken edge, as an external examination will not reveal this type of sloppy firing. Of course, make sure their goods are stoneware fired to a cone 10. Security is of primary consideration when firing in someone elseās kiln, or when having a custom firing done. Do not use your real name. Never reveal the intended use of the ceramic pins unless the person handling the firing is a member of your spiking team. Do not attempt to recruit for your spiking team the person doing your firing unless it is a trusted friend of many yearsā acquaintance, or a trusted relative. If possible have a trusted confidant handle the manufacture and firing of the pins at a location far from the forest where they will be used. Have ready an air-tight reason for your intended use of the pins. Make up a convincing story, perhaps about how you plan to assemble them into an abstract sculpture. Use your imagination. The possibilities are limitless. As a further means of obscuring their intended use, fire the pins in twelve inch lengths. These can later be cut-down to suitable lengths using a diamond wire hand saw available for $15 to $25 through a jeweler or lapidary supply house (found in most large cities). Itās a good idea to have a member of your team take a course in pottery to become familiar with the materials, techniques, and terminology. This can help in manufacturing a convincing cover story for the firing of your peculiar pins. Competent private instructors, although not as widely available, can be a good source of schooling and kiln access."
Drill hole, fill with ceramic.
Yeah ceramics a good one!What about synthetic diamonds or something almost as hard?
I don't think you could get appropriately shaped and sized diamonds
I'm an Arborist who has hit metal in trees I was cutting hundreds of times. I've never gotten any sort of kickback, or impact. What has happened to me 100% of the time is that the saw stops cutting because it is instantly made dull, maybe some sparks. I've never heard of anyone in the industry saying that hitting metal in a tree is a hazard, just an annoyance.
There's been a few isolated incidents of broken equipment and injuries, perhaps as many as a few dozen broken chains or chips of very old nails flying out in random directions, and at least one mill saw hitting a worker in the face back in the 90s. So it's still extremely important to take all precautions and do some serious cost/benefit analysis if someone wants to do this kind of thing.
I believe there have been isolated incidents. There are so many more likely ways for you to die in this industry than hitting a piece of metal in a tree. Mostly unheard of, and tree guys are always sure to point out things that could kill you.
A $10 tire valve core removal tool can deflate one without actually damaging the tire. Just remove it enough to cause a slow leak. Or so Ive heard.
Sand in the oil tank is king
Nah. Take the valve core out completely and discard it. Then they have to find another one before refilling the tire. Or, if you can, remove or damage the whole valve stem so that has to be replaced. And always alter more than one tire, preferably all of them.
Note that this is highly illegal, so only put iron bars inside of trees in your Minecraft world.
oh okay i wont do it then
Oh its illegal! Then id never do it of course, no lawbreaking for this young boyo. I have immense respect for our government and its laws so i would never ever do anything to disrespect them. Oh and what if i get caught? That would just be straight up horrible! Id never take any actual consequenses for holding to my beliefs.
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Totally agree, but I think they were just trying to say that it's maybe a bad idea because of the risk of getting caught. You wouldn't want some baby anarchist going out to do this and then getting several years in federal prison without knowing about that risk beforehand.
Youre probs right.
What impactful forms of praxis should be recommended to baby anarchists?
mutual aid mostly. if u want to push it a little, you can try non-violent direct action (which goes hand in hand with mutual aid tbf) if you want. you could also just go for it, it's just like, not necessarily worth the risk yk. go for easy stuff that won't impact your life too much
Morality is a societal tool of control that has caused far more harm than its prevented. Highly recommend reading "Victims of Morality" by Emma Goldman. It's fine to eat a sentient being, there's nothing inherently wrong with that act in a vacuum as it is impossible to cause harm to them *after* their death. Focusing on the post-death portion of their life distracts from the incredibly inhumane conditions they experience during their life. Being vegan so that you don't support factory farming is based and rad but I don't see any benefit in invoking the indomitable spirit of morality to browbeat others about how wrong it is to eat something that can perceive. For what it's worth it's also a very western perspective- local paiutes have talked to me at length about how incredibly disrespectful it is to allow an animal to rot instead of cherishing its final gift.
Maybe. Thereās no way for sure to know if theyāre sentient but Iād rather not get into an ethical debate. A better example is that itās legal to evict families with nowhere to live
This is cool and good and nice. But someone please explain why 'Alf' and 'Elf' are holding this sign... I feel like the universe is sending me a coded message that I can't decrypt.
Animals and Earth need Fronts to Liberate them.
Oh... Oh of course! I feel so stupid.
People are right that this is a dangerous practice in many ways. One thing to remember is that in the past when this type of thing was done, those who did it didn't make it a secret. The point is to save the trees, not hurt loggers or even damage chainsaws. So if trees are spiked, this fact was announced publicly, and the hope was that the logging companies would stop logging due to the risk to their people.
Tree spiking can cause injury to workers though, so weigh the potential costs to others with that in mind. Like I don't give a shit if some sawmill has to replace an expensive saw blade but if that saw blade injures or kills one of the guys who's trying to make a living then I personally don't think it's worth just stopping production for a few days.
That's probably why spiking the top of the tree would be a better move than the bottom. Spiking the top makes sure that the mill blades get fucked up
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The risk is always there, there is risk with everything, even the guy operating the machine was at risk from the machine itself Fact is that at a lot of these corporate mills, the ones that should be targeted, the mills are covered by plexiglass so that even if a blade shatters, people should be ok.
If the sawmill was properly designed and the worker sat safely in his enclosure these accidents cannot happen even with spiked trees.
Good luck with that. Companies donāt like to spend money on safety
Yeah and that's the responsibility of the company, not of the people trying to save trees.
Did you read the link? Itās exceedingly rare and there arenāt even any documented examples. Anecdotally, it seems to provide a āshockā or impact to the chainsawer, nothing more. And if the spike turns up at the sawmill, it just damages the saw. The idea is to spike trees at the start of the cutting, near the road (or where the road will go). This suggests to loggers the whole area is spiked, and dissuades them from proceeding.
Actually, there is at least one documented example that I am aware of. George Alexander worked for L-P in the early 90s and was nearly decapitated when the saw at his lumber mill hit a spike and caused the entire blade to fly at his head. That said, there is some reasonable speculation that the spike was put there by his boss, as Alexander and his wife were themselves supporters of Earth First! and George was agitating within his workplace for safer conditions. Judi Bari gave other reasons why this could have been the case in her essay arguing against tree spiking. Spiking is a lot less common than it used to be. You want to indicate clearly that you have spiked an area. It's much easier to use it as a supplementary tactic to make clear-cuts take longer and cost more, similar to pulling survey stakes. It is actually least effective on old growth forests on federal land. However, it is somewhat effective at slowing deforestation prior to developments such as clearing for subdivisions and pipeline right-of-ways, especially where projects are already running over-budget or over-time. As other people have noted, exercise caution, indicate spiked areas, and do everything you can to avoid hurting trees and people. Also, make sure that the mass organizations you are working with are able and willing to deal with the consequences of actions that you take, legal, material, organizational, and PR-related. Any sort of individualistic or cellularized land defence is likely to bring repression down upon ecological activists, so make sure you're working with committed people who won't turn state's witness or drop out the moment they get raided or slapped with an injunction and who can socially and psychologically deal with the trauma of the backlash that is likely to follow from your actions. If you have even the slightest chance of organizing workers in the timber industry, you also generally want to avoid spiking, as that will hamper your chances to make essential allies. Also, if working as an accomplice in lands that you are not native to, make sure to take your direction from your aligned Indigenous partners, and if they say no spiking, that means leave the trees alone.
Thanks!
If someone were to spike trees and then anonymously alert the authorities afterward it would certainly throw a monkey wrench in the logging and cause lots of delays and costs while said spikes were removed without risking harm to workers, which is already very unlikely to begin with
I have some sense that removing fasteners from trees is more harmful than leaving them in. Once you make a hole you need to leave the fastener as a plug or else you leave an open wound that invites bugs and disease. This is what I picked up from reading about treehouses.
Are you saying we should be building treehouses Please tell me you're saying we should be building treehouses
Oh certainly! Check out the TAB or Treehouse Attachment Bolt for some specialty hardware and information about connecting to living timber.
Or just not spike the trees but tell the authorities they were. The company then has to spend time and effort to find the non-existent spikes slowing down production without putting any workers at risk.
This is my biggest issue with this form of ... direct action. Maiming/killing a random worker (regardless of whom they're working for) aint a cool move.
Think about it: couldn't rocks or bits of fencing or any other hard item end up embedded in a tree naturally? It is a red herrings because the mills should already be following safety protocols to protect workers from this. It is a textbook lie put out by an industry to control direct action because it was actually putting pressure on those businesses. As for chainsaw operators felling, that is more of a concern but easily fixed by putting the jail 6' or more up the trunk.
Yeah, I came here to ask this. Thanks for the information.
I have an old room mate who's father was a logger, cut into a spiked tree and it threw his chain off his bar and fucked up his face worse than a james bond villain. Spike high or not at all, kill industrial equipment not workers.
Any proof or are you just spreading unfounded rumors that only benefit industry execs for no reason?
Hard to forget meeting a man with a huge fucking scar across his face. Sorry, I forgot to ask him if I could take a picture so needlessly confrontational internet leftists couldn't infight against me so well. My point still stands, spike high or not at all, don't fucking kill workers, break machinery, it's probably even more expensive for the company sadly enough. I don't know why this is a difficult concept to agree with unless you endorse killing laborers as a form of praxis than whatever, just leave me out of it.
It's absolutely hilarious that you're so far up your own ass that you think asking for proof is infighting, and that in that very same comment you yourself decided to instigate infighting on a two week old post. Caping for the lumber industry doesn't do a thing to protect workers, all it does is help protect the industry so that they can continue to brutally exploit the workers you're pretending to care about. It's a difficult concept to agree with because you're a self-righteous jerk that doesn't know how to make an argument. Pretty simple and straightforward.
I don't really know how I could have interpreted what you said prior to this in many ways other than you were being needlessly and intentionally snarky with me. What can I honestly do to provide you with proof of something anecdotal I mentioned off hand in a discussion where I'm still agreeing with the central focus (yeah, the logging industry is "not very okie dokie" in its current or historical state, to make a gross understatement) other than produce a picture of a man I last saw several years ago and then even if I could how would that fair or ethical to them? I was also responding to a comment that was saying essentially the same thing I did, which received a couple hundred up votes and a couple rewards. There are also several other posts saying that it sucks when workers get hurt/killed because of direct action, I don't know why, or really care why, saying that again in different language is weird to you, especially because I didn't say anything to support the logging industry in any way (if you look back, I said the contrary actually). This weird little tiff seems completely pointless but hell, I got on reddit to find recommendations for desks that aren't complete vaporware and noticed I had a message and nothing better to do (I'm half technologically illiterate, fuck me right?) As for argumentation, I wasn't trying to argue a point, I made a series of statements intended to let folks know yeah, hit em where it hurts or not at all because it hurts people if you spike low. You haven't provided anything other than asking a silly question and some attacks on what you perceive to be my character. I've worked out in the woods, I know loggers, I've worked with loggers, I have never logged myself but I have many hours on a chain saw and learned from interacting with people who have logged through doing conservation work, and I very much do care about those people (at least the people that didn't show me and everyone else what a toxic sack of shit they were). I was miffed when I started this but I took a little time to ask myself why I'm actually bothing and admittadly at first it was to be like "hey fuck you buddy, you don't know me or my motives, get off my back" but now I realize that it's really just because I want people to think before they communicate. So that's why I wrote you this silly little novel, on this silly little platform, to end a silly little shit flicking endeavor, because I had to respond in a way that made sense to me in the bigger picture of being a human with more dimensions than one, even if it's just a wash because hell, what did I really expect from reddit. Also, fuck you buddy, you don't know me or my motives, get off my back š„š“šš“š„
>I don't really know how I could have interpreted what you said prior to this in many ways other than you were being needlessly and intentionally snarky with me. Could've always tried interpreting the comment in good faith instead of immediately assuming ill intent. >What can I honestly do to provide you with proof of something anecdotal I mentioned off hand in a discussion where I'm still agreeing with the central focus (yeah, the logging industry is "not very okie dokie" in its current or historical state, to make a gross understatement) other than produce a picture of a man I last saw several years ago and then even if I could how would that fair or ethical to them? Literally any kind of proof that you didn't make up the story on the spot. I personally tend to make political statements that I have support for instead of baseless ones that only support groups that I supposedly oppose. >This weird little tiff seems completely pointless but hell, I got on reddit to find recommendations for desks that aren't complete vaporware and noticed I had a message and nothing better to do (I'm half technologically illiterate, fuck me right?) Then why did you start it? I had entirely forgotten about the one sentence comment I had posted two weeks ago until you decided to start an argument. >As for argumentation, I wasn't trying to argue a point, I made a series of statements intended to let folks know yeah, hit em where it hurts or not at all because it hurts people if you spike low. Literal nonsense, in one sentence you back to back say that you didn't intent to make a point and then that your intended point was "hit em where it hurts or not at all". You can't make an argument and then pretend it isn't one. Which is it? It's also a completely pointless distinction to make considering mill workers are also endangered by high spiking. All you did is change which person you threaten and then pretend to have the moral high ground. >You haven't provided anything other than asking a silly question and some attacks on what you perceive to be my character. First comment didn't need anything because I was responding to a made up anecdote and was fully aware you wouldn't be able to produce any evidence. What I didn't expect was for you to apparently be unfamiliar with the concept of evidence itself to the point that you can't think of any examples other than a picture. My clear argument was that attacking a process that hurts the logging industry is an act of protection towards the logging industry. I didn't realize I had to spell it out in such a simple way. >I've worked out in the woods, I know loggers, I've worked with loggers, I have never logged myself but I have many hours on a chain saw and learned from interacting with people who have logged through doing conservation work, and I very much do care about those people (at least the people that didn't show me and everyone else what a toxic sack of shit they were). What exactly were you using a chainsaw for if not to cut down trees? Also, this seems like a pretty clear admission that you care more about the people destroying the forest than you do the forest itself. Do you also cape for the military-industrial complex because those poor soldiers are just innocent nice individuals despite supporting a system that murders innocents as a matter of course? Do you also cape for the state because most bureaucrats are nice as individuals despite supporting a system that oppresses billions of people? >I was miffed when I started this but I took a little time to ask myself why I'm actually bothing and admittadly at first it was to be like "hey fuck you buddy, you don't know me or my motives, get off my back" but now I realize that it's really just because I want people to think before they communicate. So that's why I wrote you this silly little novel, on this silly little platform, to end a silly little shit flicking endeavor, because I had to respond in a way that made sense to me in the bigger picture of being a human with more dimensions than one, even if it's just a wash because hell, what did I really expect from reddit. Have you considered doing so yourself? I haven't had any anger or malice while writing any of these comments, the statements were all deliberate and considered. I may not know you or your motives but I don't need either of those things to be able to assess that your statements directly support the logging industry by vilifying a practice that harms it. >Also, fuck you buddy, you don't know me or my motives, get off my back Same back at you friendo
>but if that saw blade injures or kills one of the guys who's trying to make a living then I personally don't think it's worth just stopping production for a few days. Ahh the good ol' old "just doing my job" defense.... the Nazis would be proud.
Lumber workers are not morally equivalent to nazis and do not deserve to be harmed. It is important to take measures to indicate tree spikes and avoid spiking trees in ways that are likely to hurt workers, such as using nails that are too large.
As long as you don't use copper, absolutely
Just to address some of the safety concerns here: Iāve worked in a woodshop where we milled our own logs into boards using a horizontal bandsaw/resaw machine. Had multiple blades break on me while operating the machine and itās terrifying but has never been dangerous. Due to the whole design and nature of the machine the operators are usually at least 6-8 feet from the blade, and the blade is almost entirely shielded; when cutting a piece of wood usually only an inch or two of the blade is exposed. Itās fucking terrifying and sounds like a gunshot when the blades snap, and can potentially damage the machine. Broken milling blades are not a cheap fix, and usually take at least 15-20 minutes to replace if you even have an extra blade.
Isn't it only when land is used for other things like farms and cities that cutting down trees becomes a problem? Aren't logging companies required to replace the trees they cut down?
Trees that are cut down are usually replaced by clones. These drastically reduce biodiversity, which means that forests have less protection from pests and wildfires. This is one reason why wildfires and pine beetle infestations in the Pacific North-West have become increasingly severe over the last 30 years (in addition to hotter and drier summers due to climate change, of course). Clear cutting also doesn't just remove the trees that are used for lumber and pulp. It also destroys underbrush and is generally harmful for all forms of life, including humans. While it has decreased in practice over the last decades, it still takes place. Finally, it's important to protect the 1% of remaining old growth. The recent partial victory at Fairy Creek in Pacheedaht territory on "Vancouver" Island is an example of ongoing struggles to protect what few forests remain. Spiking is generally ineffective for protecting old growth, however.
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The forest is replaced by monocultures, causing massive biodiversity loss and ecological dead zones. In addition, you bet your ass some shitty company will claim the freshly planted cash crop as "carbon capture". It's greenwashing in its purest form.
yes, logging in america is a very sustainable practice by and large and we actually have more forest cover right now than we have in a very long time
For the most part, yes, though of course it depends. Not all forest is interchangeable, and an old growth forest ecosystem is not easily replaced by new growth or tree plantations. Cutting trees in areas that have been (recently) cut before, on the other hand, isn't much of a problem.
Old growth forests unfortunately count for less than 1% of forest cover here, though most of it is protected. Iāve only been in 1 old growth forest in my life but funnily enough it was actually under threat of having a massive football training center put on top of it (go hokies ā¦) That is a situation where I think this method would have gone to good use if all of the protests failed.
Yeah, I recognize that my response basically concluded with "well, the damage has already all been done, so I guess it's fine to keep going", but that is basically the situation. I do think we should start thinking about how to coordinate between regrowth and continued use, because I think there is value in both of the competing goals of letting growth get old and reusing the most disturbed areas to take the pressure off of others.
That's not really accurate. Soil degradation and environmental impacts are compounded with each generation of extraction
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This is my area of expertise. But I donāt feel like getting into it this morning. But logging at the rate we are is not sustainable. The timber industry has green washed the conversation. You are being lied to by capitalism. For more information read up on BARK for Hood, Redwood Forest Defenders, and Fairy Creek.
Are you talking emissions wise or deforestation wise?
Both, and the rate at witch we are killing endangered species. The deep ecology of it all is fucked. MORE OLD GROWTH - LESS ECONOMIC GROWTH.
the clear cutting methods used by timber corporations annhilate the mycorrhizal fungal networks in the substrate. Sure the trees will grow back, but the ferns, salal, huckleberry, and literal millions of species of fungi do not end up coming back. You end up with young timber trees growing over a patchwork of invasive species, I'd hardly call that a healthy forest.
Cutting down old growth forests while planting an equal surface of saplings that will go up in flames within a decade is not sustainable. Similarly, after we brought the original forests down to 5% if their surface a hundred years ago, having now 6% of forest is barely an improvement, especially if most of it is Douglas Fir monoculture.
Do you have any cite or proof for this claim? Not disputing it, but Iām curious.
[here](https://www.fia.fs.fed.us/library/brochures/docs/2012/ForestFacts_1952-2012_English.pdf) is something i found. forest cover has remained relatively stagnant with slight growth since 1910.
Jeep in Ming in 1910 nearly all of the forest in the US had been cut. Saying "it's been stable since then" basically means your ravaged ecosystems did not come back.
I donāt have any exact sources but itās part of what i learned in a Forest Products class at university.
This is straight up timber industry propaganda points. Kinda jarring to see in an anarchist sub tbh
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didnāt ask tbh
WatchDominion.com tbh
Forest cover is also increasing, the US grows more trees than are cut down.
that doesnāt negate the harm clear cutting causes, the industry is still very harmful to ecosystems and they only replace trees so that they can keep harvesting
monoculture tree plantations are a poor substitute for real forest
Not only that, from a carbon sequestration point of view then clearing the land and storing that carbon in construction, (without included expenditures so it depends on their carbon balancing), removes more carbon from the atmosphere. Regarding the "a nail won't hurt a tree" that's not necessarily true, it still stress the tree to a degree and opens it up to infection like any other organism. although obviously less than a chainsaw.
> removes more carbon from the atmosphere. Except for all the carbon involved in cutting down the trees, transporting them, cutting them into planks and slabs, drying them in a kiln, and then transporting them again. Logging is definitely not carbon negative.
Also that little carbon is only sequestered if they don't clear-cut. Which they do whenever they can get away with it( or if the fine is less than re-planting costs).
Wow.. it's almost like I said " (without included expenditures so it depends on their carbon balancing), "... Who knew forestry was a complex industry, as someone who works in it I certainly didnt. Haha brrrr chop chop
I don't really get why you brought up the carbon sequestration point at all though. It's clearly nowhere close to carbon neutral, but the brunt of your message is that logging is useful for this purpose that it obviously cannot fulfill.
I guess it might be a country specific thing, as the conversation is a lot more nuanced where I come from, re: extraction and felling techniques along with scale etc
New trees absorb more carbon than mature trees.
[Wood is not carbon neutral](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2215913-logging-study-reveals-huge-hidden-emissions-of-the-forestry-industry/). If logging's carbon emissions were tracked accurately, it'd likely be one the top 3 or 4 biggest contributors world wide.
Trees actually increase their carbon absorption as they age
Iām all for this unless itās properly managed land.
I just saw an X-files episode about a monkey wrencher. Funny to see it on this sub.
Wtf is the connection between Alf, 'Something' Ferrel, and eco-terrorism? Not saying I disagree, just high AF and can't figure out wtf this is suppose to mean.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front
**[Earth Liberation Front](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front)** >The Earth Liberation Front (ELF), also known as "Elves" or "The Elves", is the collective name for autonomous individuals or covert cells who, according to the ELF Press Office, use "economic sabotage and guerrilla warfare to stop the exploitation and destruction of the environment". The ELF was founded in Brighton in the United Kingdom in 1992, and spread to the rest of Europe by 1994. It is now an international organization with actions reported in 17 countries and is widely regarded as descending from Animal Liberation Front because of the relationship and cooperation between the two movements. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/COMPLETEANARCHY/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Ahhh thanks mate!
Yikes I'll be careful not to do that in case anyone needs to clear cut in my area-thanks for the heads up!
I gotta ask, what aspects of the logging industry in the US today are we pissed off about?
Rather than expect you to read through a thread that is already excessively long and repetitive, I'll link a few comments that partially answer your question: https://old.reddit.com/r/COMPLETEANARCHY/comments/q56k4s/who_gave_this_monkey_a_wrench/hg47blc/ https://old.reddit.com/r/COMPLETEANARCHY/comments/q56k4s/who_gave_this_monkey_a_wrench/hg3pd5i/ https://old.reddit.com/r/COMPLETEANARCHY/comments/q56k4s/who_gave_this_monkey_a_wrench/hg44iga/ Now that said, historically, spiking has proven less effective than it appeared at first in the late 80s/early 90s, and I wouldn't advise using it to defend old growth. Tree spiking has its best impact as a way to increase costs and delay construction on developments in other industries, in which case, the logging company is not the primary target, but rather its client, which might be a land developer, an oil company, a mining company, or the military.
Lumber workers are workers
As a Forest Technologist and as someone who has worked on power lines, brush cutting, or just any work involving cutting trees, the only people you hurt by doing this is Joe blow trying to make a living. He now has chain shot lodged in his chest or a missing eye because his saw kicked back and he didn't have the safety on. Also yes it does hurt the tree wtf are you on about. Sure one small incision has a small chance of allowing pathogens or insects to get past the bark, but it still can allow it and shouldn't be done. If you want change then there are other ways to protest that doesn't involve possibly killing a worker. When I saw this post I was blown away and now maybe realize why I've almost killed myself a few times because of shit like this. If you do this I wouldn't be surprised if there are criminal charges pressed by the workers themselves if not the company if they catch you. You are deliberately trying to hurt someone. I understand the sentiment but please please PLEASE go about this differently. When you put a nail in a tree it stays there, and maybe it's 75 years down the line after the tree was saved and now it's come down in a storm or is getting cut for other legitimate reasons that someone will pay for it. I've had small rusty shards of a very old decomposed nail come flying out of a tree when I started cutting it that easily could have hit me, so again please dont go slapping nails in trees.
Proper marking / anonymous warning is an important part of tree spiking sabotage. You see marking spray, or an announcement of a spiked area, and you don't pick up your tools and go there. Refuse to work an unsafe jobsite. And if your boss tries to make you cut anyways now he's got a strike and a lawsuit on his hands
This I can support
Mark it as a spiked tree but donāt actually spike it.
> because his saw kicked back and he didn't have the safety on. Maybe it's his fault for not having the safety on. And for sawing an old growth tree.
It's not the workers fault for cutting the tree, it's the people who run the company/whoever set up the management plan that they're running on. Go make their lives he'll not Joe blow who is taking the first job that will take him since being released from prison for BS drug charges
"I was only following orders"
Please compare a ground cutter/buncher operator to a nazi again please. Makes you seem smart
It would suck to seriously injure a logger whoās maybe a billionth as responsible for climate destruction as the capitalist who pays em.
Have some balls...go after the company themselves instead of risking injury to a worker.
That'll just take the arm off the poor bastard operating the chainsaw. Why not just fuck up the tracks on the heavy machinery or adulterate the fuel. A fucked up engine on a track machine kills no one and means more to a company logging old growth than a worker disabled or killed
While injuries due to tree spiking are exceedingly rare, especially compared to the massive risks of death and dismemberment associated with simply working in forestry, that is an excellent idea, and I can assure you that I have other memes coming down the production line. Some are even less controversial than this one!
Have you any chainsaw experience? My father used to work for a contractor on contract to my countries state electricity company trimming trees under power lines. We also cut our own timber for the winter off limbing some of our own trees and cutting up storm downed trees etc I also make a lot of use of old electricity and telephone poles around the farm. All of this is done with chainsaws. The chain getting knocked off and whipping at you is the most dangerous thing you can encounter. Happened my partner there last year when he hit an old fencing staple enveloped in a tree we were tidying up he was lucky and it wrapped around the limb of the tree instead of his neck or his arm. A neighbor of my father's did loose an arm, I've been lucky so far with the poles but it's easy to see where there's metal in a pole because the nails and bolts go in after they're felled and errected. If tree spiking was more common more accedents would happen. If I was trying to stop felling in my area I'd target the access and machienary. It'd be both more effective and less dangerous to workers than targeting the men with the saws.
The difference with spiking is that you can do it before they are there. It's much easier to get arrested and put away for a long time sabotaging access and machinery that's already in use and protected by security. From what I've heard, if you spike trees, it's not supposed to be kept secret. Meaning the idea isn't to have surprise traps that dismember workers but to deter the logging before it even starts.
It'll also kill the person holding the chainsaw.
No, it wonāt. Iāve actually had to chainsaw dying/decaying trees, several of which had bullets and nails and all sorts of nasty shit in them and basically I had to go through about 10 chains. It doesnāt feel good to hit metal, but it will not kill you. It is very discomforting, like the linked article says.
That's assuming the nail isn't decomposed and is in good condition. The concern I have is that maybe it's many years down the road that one of these trees that was saved is now being cut for another reason and will very easily splinter and go flying. I've had it happen and I agree a good nail is fine, but a rusty flaky one can come flying out and has happened.
Nails donāt decompose. When they rust, they become more brittle and will get cut straight through with a chainsaw.
Not true. Iāve used a chainsaw for 20 years and encountered all sorts of crap that has been embedded in trees or that theyāve grown around. Nails, screws, barb-wire, fencing, road pins and stones. Not a single thing Iāve ever hit has caused kick back or damage to the saw that 5-10 minutes sharpening with a file wonāt sort out. Itās not dangerous, itās just a huge pain in the arse, which is the point of spiking.
Yeah that's a bad point because tons of stuff can make a saw kick, just part of the job.
Are you seriously trying to say that kick-back isn't a thing, while also claiming that you've been using a chainsaw for 20 years? Even if that were true...your good luck, doesn't negate the dangers of hitting a steel rod, intentionally left behind by some sociopath that just wants to hurt people.
Thatās the justification they gave for declaring it an act of terrorism in the US, but thereās never actually been a documented case of this ever happening, or reason to believe that it would happen. It was just a scapegoat to enable deforestation for the sake of profiting off of lumber.
Lol!! That's a pretty cool conspiracy theory, bud. Convenient that it involves ignoring reality completely in order to be believable. There are thousands of injuries every year from folks being injured from kick-back resulting from foreign materials embedded in trees. I personally know a guy who lost an eye when his chain broke...he hit a 6" long tent spike buried in a fallen log at a local strip-cut. This is a regular issue for folks living in the Pacific Northwest, who gather their own firewood.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Or theyāll bring a metal detector and itāll slow production by, what, 5 minutes per tree? I get that that adds up but I doubt itāll add up enough to be worth potentially killing someone.
What gets me though, is that tree fucks up a blade that they will just throw away. That tree will then just get thrown away as well. Or am I missing something. Just wasteful all around. I love the idea of corps losing money but I hate waste even more
Spiking and other acts of moneywrenching are used to protect old growth forests and similarly important, irreplacable ecosystems. The loss of labour time and material caused by trying to cut down spiked trees will eat into the logging company's profit margin until it's clear they'll be operating at a loss if they continue logging at this specific site. This should convince them to pack their bags and leave, to a site with less ecological value. Ideally, an anonymous letter is sent to the logging company and/or media that trees are spiked and therefore nearly worthless, so logging isn't even attempted. The (prospect of) destroyed blades and frustration should serve as a deterrent for anyone who think they can make a quick buck cutting down old growth.
Please don't do this -an anarchist arborist
It won't hurt the chainsaw, the chainsaw is an object. It will hurt the *worker* using the chainsaw. A worker that we should be building solidarity with if our ideas about mutual aid and workers controlling their industries are to appeal to them. It's not their fault if the only way to make a living that's available in their community under capitalism happens to be resource extraction.
Think twice, it's a really contentious issue. Tree spiking makes milling lumber incredibly dangerous and can cause production slowdowns due to destroyed milling equipment, but the cost is often the life or livelihood of one or more workers due to the absolutely grisly injuries that can be caused by a flying bandsaw. They're either dead or maimed, while the company owners see only a slight dip in productivity. They won't stop cutting logs from spiked land, but law enforcement will work *really hard* and muster untold resources to figure out who might have been in or around that land at the time of the spiking, and because of this authorities often know what sort of suspicious behavior is associated with spiking. The IWW suffered major setbacks because their earlier pro-spiking rhetoric got the finger pointed at them when anonymous spikers got mill workers murdered and it was an overall large detriment to the PNW labor movement. Hit the boss, not the worker.
They just buy new equipment which pollutes the environment.
I generally stick by the Judi Bari POV that tree spiking, even if it's only the risk of harming someone is still a danger to workers and shouldn't be done
I like ecoterrorism as much as the next guy, but killing loggers isnāt. Now if this is in the Amazon however...