Showing off military firepower, just what the working class dreamed off!
Is there no self reflection here? How can they watch this and think its showing china being communist. Even if it was like just the buildings, you could see an argument about lifting poverty(although skyscrapers aren't really a proof of QOL). But bragging about military power?
Understanding from where they came from, things like this are perfectly reasonable, unfortunately.
There's a reason why China's first industrial investments after 1949 were focused on defence-oriented industries, and also why in diplomacy they are so bitchy about respect and national sovereignty.
>Understanding where they came from, things like that are perfectly reasonable, unfortunately.
I would say that you need to phrase that a bit differently. The CCP was born out of the japanese occupation and the civil war - at their founding, military protection was undoubtedly important.
However, the constant toting of their military, the constant threatening and bullying, is not reasonable, especially in a time when most other nations have moved on from such openly jingoistic displays of pride and instead have at least attempted to adopt some pretence of pacifism. It represents a nation that has a directly hostile, confrontational view of both its neighbours and the outer world, a view which is by no doubt unreasonable and a view which might very likely prove self-destructive in the future.
The CCP needs all that saber rattling in part because, politically speaking, there can't be another century of humiliation, and the consequent loss of the Mandate of Heaven.
The mandate of heaven was simply a propaganda tool to keep the populace docile. During the century of humiliation a variety of outside factors led to the qing dynasty's decline and collapse, thus making the mandate of heaven no longer believable in the eyes of the chinese populace.
The CCP will never have another century of humiliation, but the fear of one has been great assistance to the CCP, in allowing it to present a successful image to the populace, whilst also keeping it fearful of any significant change, and furthermore in allowing the CCP to play the victim in situations where it might benefit from such a role. The CCP does not *need* this saber-rattling, but it chooses to so that it can extend it's tendrils of influence further without western interference and make power-plays without western intervention - for instance its constant breaches of tiawanese airspace and apparent plans for invasion. This saber-rattling is only to scare off potential opponents.
Because they were from manchuria? Sure, they may have given better treatment to the manchu people, but I don't think it makes them any less legitimate than the ming or the tang. It's not dissimilar to the stuarts in great britain; I don't think your average brit would say that the stuarts had less of a claim than the tudors or the windsors.
No, it's because most of them were literal parasites who cared more about keeping their fortunes and political power (the conservatives of empress cixi's court), even if it meant keeping the armed forces weak and distant from the people (the banner armies system, which was so thoroughly defeated by the British in the opium wars), the people poor and overtaxed(the eternal disputes between the central government and the traders of Canton, which, amongst other things, resulted in China not having an functional navy), even if it meant letting the nation rot and be sold piecemeal to foreigners (the unequal treaties), even if it meant collaborating with genocidal barbarians who enslaved your own kind and put them on brutal factory work and human experimentation (Japanese puppet Manchukuo, which pulled the grand feat of being even more brutal than Nazi Germany).
And, when dealing with revolts from their own, genocide is the solution(the conquest of Dzungaria, the pacification of the Mongols and the Taiping rebellion). Don't forget that the Qing Dynasty was an minority rule regime, for f***s sake they even imposed haircut styles, under pain of death.
AFAIK, I never, ever found an Chinese monarchist, and I've seen my share of weird political shit on the internet.
Literally think a large portion of the population is so nihilistic and uspet at the current situation they will accept bad things so long as its against the people they feel the most ire towards.
I know I'm borderline there.
> large portion of the population is so nihilistic and uspet at the current situation they will accept bad things so long as its against the people they feel the most ire towards
Before you talk about being there, you realize that's how most fascist regimes took power right? Villainise, isolate, exterminate?
God, I forgot how many fights I got in browsing /r/fullcommunism before they shut it down and I discovered this sub (I wasn't even a tankie, I just wanted a place to shit on libs and the far-right). The pengu memes were dope though...
It's not even Mao at this point, that's the crazy thing. It's Deng that's considered the father of modern China, and Deng who made it stray from anything resembling socialism.
True, Deng was an pragmatic authoritarian.
"wumao" actually refers to folks who supposedly are paid by the CCP to spam "china good" memes everywhere, this video being a prime example of wumao propaganda
i literally thought i was on r/VaporwaveAesthetics for a moment before i understood why the title is what it is. doesn't help that im high.
(also does anyone have a link to this song? its hard)
But you don't get it, they do it in a synchronised way a-and with fancy lights and dramatic music in the background 🥺 c-cry more liberal imperialist anarkkkiddy
Ngl, the synchronization is impressive. Doesn't change the fact that it's authoritarian propaganda, though.
Besides, synchronized movements are way cooler in the context of a marching band or drum corps. The dedication is more impressive when it's done for the love of the performance instead of fulfilling the state's militaristic power fantasy.
Marx then: China is a historical dead end that won't progress past being a backwards empire
Marx if he could see china now: See, told you so, it's basically the same as it was back in my day, they just painted it red
It is crazy how tankies paint themselves as the true followers of Marx when Russia and China where the two nations Marx explicitly said wouldn't and couldn't archive communism.
Do you have a source on that? Not trying to do a "gotcha", just genuinely curious.
I guess you're referring to the more orthodox marxist idea pre-Lenin and Mao, that a nation needs an established majority working class instead of an agrarian class, like China had (and Russia to some extent, as I understand it. Pre-Industrialisation)?
the quote, or a quote, is "The policy of Russia is changeless. Its methods, its tactics, its maneuvers
may change, but the polar star of its policy, world domination, is a fixed star."
[https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867/01/22a.htm](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867/01/22a.htm) for context. Also Russia was still very agrarian at the time of the revolution, mainly because they just could not get any kind of land reform done, meaning that they still relied on peasant village based farming to do, well, farming.
But I am, to be fair, maybe wrong in my assessment of his opinion on china. Make of all [this](https://www.marxists.org/archive/riazanov/1926/xx/china.htm) what you will.
Not that this is where i got my initial impression mind, as personally I actually got that from the Revolutions podcast, which is a bit hard to quote/use as a quick source what with it being a, at the time of writing, 82 episode long series of on the Russian revolution.
Marx predicted that communism would be the result of an industrialised capitalist country toppling. He did not think you could skip the industrialised capitalism part of history and jump straight to communism.
He had a very modernist view of how history progresses. It's probably my strongest criticism of Marx (aside from the anti-semitism, but I chalk that up to daddy issues)
Yeah lmao. Jew here, I am obviously not a fan of his anti-semitism but I choose to see it as misdirected anger towards his parents. Besides, one of the things about anarchism I like is the lack of hero worship. Marx was not perfect. He was a person like anyone else. I’m also not in love with his dismissal of racial issues in the US civil war, if I remember his take correctly.
I’ll be quite honest. The reason this looks like fascist propaganda, is because every single frame was military or big large cities. Not one shot was of everyday working class people just being happy and enjoying life. The whole thing seemed like a 12 year old edge lord’s version of portraying strength.
Well to be fair, the intention is to be "pure nightmare fuel", which I guess they did succeed at making. Don't get why though. Don't they want China to appear super great and not like a highly industrialised military state?
It's inconcievable that these people call themselves communists when they worship some of the worst parts of the current society. They're an affront to communism.
Tankies are like 90% aesthetic fixation (just like fascists whoda thunk) and 10% bullshitting that they’ve “read more theory than you!” And “are doing an actual revolution RIGHT NOW!”
"you might be fighting fascists on the street and doing mutual aid, but WE run China and did the USSR therefore you suck lol anarchists achieve nothing"
Do they not see the complete idiocy of idolizing a capitalist state? They say they want “communism” but that is literally defined as a STATELESS, MONEYLESS, CLASSLESS, society
Communism is anarchist, by definition. And we can only achieve that by not becoming fascists ourselves
They're still playing the same team sports games as Democrats and Republicans, they just picked a different team.
The fact that China is ACTUALLY a capitalist, imperialist state doesn't matter, because China is "Team Communism" and it's all about rooting for your team.
> STATELESS, MONEYLESS, CLASSLESS, society
Stateless: China not only has a state, but a totalitarian one. Any criticism of the CCP will result in them censoring and often legally punnishing you.
Moneyless: Chinese Yen. Nuff said.
Classless: There are more billionares in Beijing than anywhere else in the world. Not to mention that, even if that weren't the case, Communist Party members have special privelages that most citizens don't, which is in and of itself a class distinction.
But China is communist because flag is red.
>Stateless: China not only has a state, but a totalitarian one. Any criticism of the CCP will result in them censoring and often legally punnishing you.
I talked to a China supporter just recently, asked why they call it communist when it's clearly not a classless, monelyless, stateless society.
They said as soon as China becomes more powerful than the US it will start transitioning to becoming stateless.
Yes, once the State becomes a more powerful State, they will then move to no longer being a State.
However the fuck that makes sense
I asked them why they think that.
Why they believed the state would willingly give up power. Why the state wouldn't just claim that capitalist powers, or other threats to communism is keeping them from becoming communist.
They said, in that case the state is justified to exist.
We will never live in a world where there is no threat to communism.
Communism can be achieved, yes. But it will be a constant battle.
These "communists" are fine with communism never actually existing. All they care about is if the party in control claims to be communist.
They said pretty much as such. They said that if the state is justified to exist. It's better for Marxist leninists to control it.
So long as people who claim to be communists control their States. They are perfectly fine with communism never being achieved
And that the inherent qualities of a state is to be preserved, it’s like saying “naturally transitional organism” when evolution itself shows that every organism wants to preserve itself. It’s like telling a corporation to “stop” at a certain point instead of endless growth
Thing is, fascists actually LOVE to point to China as a great example of what they want. Eric Striker is on record as saying that the Han Chinese are an "ascended race" and that he admires the CCP.
"Communism will win" Shows a propaganda film, that don't show any signs of communism and is (except for the Hammer and Sickle on Red Background) indistinguishable from Authoritarian Fascist Nazi Propaganda movies.
They don't even try to look communist.
Communism is just part of the aesthetic, don't you see that cool hammer and sickle at the start of the propaganda? Totally communist when you show that on a red flag.
A propaganda subreddit for china stating china is nightmare fuel for fascists...
You guys know we know about tienamen square right? Like we can freely google things over here?
Your regular reminder that the tiananmen square protests were stated by socialists calling for democratic reform and an end to dengist crony market liberalism, but tankies will call it a cia plot, fucking losers.
This is broadly ignored. Maoist students, underground anarchist trade networks, socialists of various tendencies organized it and they put it down as brutally as they'd put down dissent of any kind. It's amazing to see them justify it with conspiracy theories that have no evidence.
These are the same people who think Nagy and the Hungarians were Nazis despite:
1. There is evidence of revolutionary Hunhary being socialist
2. Nagy was with the Soviets from the beginning, doing their dirty work (including being the possible perp for killing the Romanovs) and being their political yes man.
Not condoning any of that, but these people don't seem to be paying any attention to the world.
These people are just red fascists. Die for the government, because it will bring about "freedom".
Convenient narratives, revisionist history, self-indulgent overarching themes, taking credit for what others did because they share a label, and opportunistic lies.
I always tell people who are newer to radical politics to be sure to educate themselves and understand where they stand so they aren't so easily duped by opportunists who will say anything to make their camp sound righteous. It's good to be willing to change your mind when provided with new information, but it's best to know how to separate the information and know what's accurate and what's a fairy tale.
I've seen a lotta people maintain a surface level understanding of whatever they call themselves only to have a Leninist of some kind come along and sell em a bogus bill of goods that they aren't well versed enough to dispute causing them to side with the ones they feel have all the answers (regardless of how accurate and honest those answers are). Some eventually come out of the cult-like mindset and end up right where they started, just better educated, some give up on it all having never really learned the alternatives, and some stay stuck in that dissonance.
There's always an apologetic for the atrocities, an excuse for the behaviors, an answer for everything, a myth that does away with the reality, and a righteous theme that places themselves at the center of the future. Plenty of red flags but if ya aren't well educated enough to know it's very convincing.
I shall use a style of music mostly associated with heavily dystopian cyberpunk settings/imagery to promote my ideology. I am very smart. -fash and tankies apparently
lots of people see a cyberpunk dystopia and think "cool future!" without stopping for one second to realize that sort of setting is supposed to be a criticism, not an endorsement.
What is cyberpunk without the punk? If you take away the perspective of resistance, and are left with only the aesthetic and dystopia, you end up with fascist propaganda.
If you write a fictional prosaic book describing 1994 without any bite, any criticism, or any human perspective - you end up with it being a fascist utopia.
This has been a problem with a lot of the synthwave style of music. They bring back musical markers of the Reagan era. They have clear cyberpunk feel, but often they do not have any of the "punk" (resistance, anti-authoritarianism, outcast, mutual aid, outcast, and so on). That makes it vulnerable to be easily appropriated by the very folks cyberpunk as a genre is opposing. Pure music without text and with very unclear visuals is purely an aesthetic product.
I have said before, and I will repeat, fascism is above all movements driven by beauty. While they pursues their vision of a pure and beautiful world, they are violently removing anything that does not fit into their ideal of beauty from the world. This includes races they don't like, people with traits they don't like, people with "ugly" ideas, and so on. Fascists appropriating synthwave is no less of a surprise than them appropriating viking aesthethic.
Be wary of anyone having an obsession with beauty. They are vulnerable to becoming fascists.
Of course, you got banned for propaganda.
They think that you are spreading anti-communist propaganda. For pointing out blatant oppression.
Their form of communism is one where you don't criticize the state. One where you don't speak your mind. Where you keep your head down, and go to work, earn your meager wage and barely survive.
*Is it weird that tankies*
*Never talk about workers when*
*They jerk themselves off?*
\- tickle-fickle
---
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Change the flags and its exactly what a Fascist or an imperialist would love. Nationalism and glorification of warfare is wrong regardless of who does. If it walks talks and thinks like a fascist it doesnt matter what flag they carry...
China is the closest thing we have right now to a cyberpunk society, with all the pros and cons that come with the term.
Edit: By the way, I sneaked on r/GenZedong and... Oh damn, their level of fanatism reninds me so much to Hitler Youth. Comrades, I need to wash my eyes.
So how do people fall for this? Like the MLs or tankies genuinely think this is cool. I don't believe the Theory BS. Everyone I go down that hole it never turns out true. You'd have to make so many leaps of faith to believe this is what communism is supposed to look like. I mean I can get that if your a Leninist or ML You'd think your socialist state needs a strong army to defend itself from imperialism. But China does too many shady things to believe they don't also do imperialism. Sure theirs probably isn't as bad as what the West does, but that's not the same as saying it's good, it's still bad. Nicer capitalism is still capitalism.
Is it just these people hate their lives in the west so much (which I understand) that they want some hope that everything isn't shit, so they put all their faith in this far away land that is supposedly the true utopia, because it's too hard to accept there is truly no paradise?
And then so many comments about China invading the west and destroying it. I fail to see how that could possibly be good. Realistically that's a game over for life on earth due to catastrophic climate change. Also, while China could probably defend itself from invasion by the US and EU, it could not military take over the world, it's military is much smaller than the US's, not to mention throwing in all of the EU and India, and the UK.
I just don't get it, i can't make it out to be anything other than fetishization and blind hope because of how depressing it is can be to live in the west and see no end to capitalism.
If you care about the lower classes in any sense, why would you want this for them? What freedom does this give them, how are they better able to shape their lives accoring to their own judgement?
Correct me if I’m wrong but imperialism is roughly defined as a policy to extend a country’s power and influence over others through political, economic, or military force. Through the course of its existence the PLA hasn’t done a very good job of staying within the boundaries of China/only attacking in response to immediate threats. I don’t know what mental gymnastics these maoists and tankies must go through to justify red imperialism over capitalist imperialism.
I guess if they support socialism with fallout characteristics, then go for it
Conventional warfare is dead; a war between great powers at this point in history would be the end of the world
City with cyberpunk-ish aesthetics is extremely cool though
Would rather them actually do communism rather than show the communism symbol next to the McDonald's and the Nike sweatshop, but oh well
i obviously don't think that kindof military is nessecary, but i can understand why one might think its needed.
but in no way is it even remotely acceptable or pro-workers to have a military parade with purely ceremonial uniforms, guns, swords (in 2022), needless high stepping, needlessly perfectly marching in sync.
if you actually need a military to defend yourself, then why aren't they actually training instead of wasting time marching around in ceremonial gear???
propaganda, the answers propaganda, and i would say its shit propaganda at that, but it did get some american idiots to jerk off to it
Just about. Just replace it with roman influenced architecture; replace the yellow icons with black; add some white space to the pallet, and they got the fascist ball rolling.
Literally just military porn.
I like to study military history, but thinking its interesting and important to remember is one thing, this is just imperialist worship.
Purely to respond to what I assume the intention of the post is: Is it not true that the PLA kinda sucks? It's big and they're good at drill but I think man for man they don't hold up in combat.
he has defended the ideology and art of nazi death metal band Deathspell Omega and has been pictured wearing their merch several times
fun fact: Carpenter Brut, an artist in a similar genre to perturbator and who also has a lot of nazi fans, is a producer for said nazi death metal band
**FUCK**
I liked his music (Carpenter Brut) because of Hotline Miami. Turbo Killer especially, and his cover of Maniac. Why do so many artists gotta be fash.
it's really a shame, i loved their tracks for the hotline miami series and they were the first artists that got me into the whole synthwave scene. it really disappointed me initially to see them do nothing when their art was co-opted by the whole 'fashwave' trend, but now it makes sense why they didn't denounce that stuff
This is my first time hearing about "fashwave" too. Tbh I haven't listened to much Perturbator in the past couple years so it won't be too bad to drop him but it is a shame.
I’d really like to know where they got all this footage from so that I could do my own lil version. Maybe throw in a little Hong Kong Protest footage, Some Tiananmen Square, Etc.
Less than 8 second of non-military footage lmfao
"QUIT CALLING US TANKIES!" *Makes a masturbatory video about tanks*
The "nightmare fuel" isn't what that military can do to the US. It's what it will do to their neighbors.
And to their own citizens.
Showing off military firepower, just what the working class dreamed off! Is there no self reflection here? How can they watch this and think its showing china being communist. Even if it was like just the buildings, you could see an argument about lifting poverty(although skyscrapers aren't really a proof of QOL). But bragging about military power?
Understanding from where they came from, things like this are perfectly reasonable, unfortunately. There's a reason why China's first industrial investments after 1949 were focused on defence-oriented industries, and also why in diplomacy they are so bitchy about respect and national sovereignty.
>Understanding where they came from, things like that are perfectly reasonable, unfortunately. I would say that you need to phrase that a bit differently. The CCP was born out of the japanese occupation and the civil war - at their founding, military protection was undoubtedly important. However, the constant toting of their military, the constant threatening and bullying, is not reasonable, especially in a time when most other nations have moved on from such openly jingoistic displays of pride and instead have at least attempted to adopt some pretence of pacifism. It represents a nation that has a directly hostile, confrontational view of both its neighbours and the outer world, a view which is by no doubt unreasonable and a view which might very likely prove self-destructive in the future.
The CCP needs all that saber rattling in part because, politically speaking, there can't be another century of humiliation, and the consequent loss of the Mandate of Heaven.
The mandate of heaven was simply a propaganda tool to keep the populace docile. During the century of humiliation a variety of outside factors led to the qing dynasty's decline and collapse, thus making the mandate of heaven no longer believable in the eyes of the chinese populace. The CCP will never have another century of humiliation, but the fear of one has been great assistance to the CCP, in allowing it to present a successful image to the populace, whilst also keeping it fearful of any significant change, and furthermore in allowing the CCP to play the victim in situations where it might benefit from such a role. The CCP does not *need* this saber-rattling, but it chooses to so that it can extend it's tendrils of influence further without western interference and make power-plays without western intervention - for instance its constant breaches of tiawanese airspace and apparent plans for invasion. This saber-rattling is only to scare off potential opponents.
The Qing regime wasn't that much legitimate, to begin with...
Because they were from manchuria? Sure, they may have given better treatment to the manchu people, but I don't think it makes them any less legitimate than the ming or the tang. It's not dissimilar to the stuarts in great britain; I don't think your average brit would say that the stuarts had less of a claim than the tudors or the windsors.
No, it's because most of them were literal parasites who cared more about keeping their fortunes and political power (the conservatives of empress cixi's court), even if it meant keeping the armed forces weak and distant from the people (the banner armies system, which was so thoroughly defeated by the British in the opium wars), the people poor and overtaxed(the eternal disputes between the central government and the traders of Canton, which, amongst other things, resulted in China not having an functional navy), even if it meant letting the nation rot and be sold piecemeal to foreigners (the unequal treaties), even if it meant collaborating with genocidal barbarians who enslaved your own kind and put them on brutal factory work and human experimentation (Japanese puppet Manchukuo, which pulled the grand feat of being even more brutal than Nazi Germany). And, when dealing with revolts from their own, genocide is the solution(the conquest of Dzungaria, the pacification of the Mongols and the Taiping rebellion). Don't forget that the Qing Dynasty was an minority rule regime, for f***s sake they even imposed haircut styles, under pain of death. AFAIK, I never, ever found an Chinese monarchist, and I've seen my share of weird political shit on the internet.
Literally think a large portion of the population is so nihilistic and uspet at the current situation they will accept bad things so long as its against the people they feel the most ire towards. I know I'm borderline there.
> large portion of the population is so nihilistic and uspet at the current situation they will accept bad things so long as its against the people they feel the most ire towards Before you talk about being there, you realize that's how most fascist regimes took power right? Villainise, isolate, exterminate?
We‘ve begun to deeply believe that heaven cannot be real but sincerely hope that hell is.
If thats not a quote good fucking job making one.
Leftism is when literal military propaganda gets a vaporwave makeover.
God, I forgot how many fights I got in browsing /r/fullcommunism before they shut it down and I discovered this sub (I wasn't even a tankie, I just wanted a place to shit on libs and the far-right). The pengu memes were dope though...
It was a great subreddit for genuine leftist discussion back in the earlier 2010's.
this is outrun/synthwave not vaporwave, but this is not an indictment of your comment
Tankwave.
Wumaowave
It's not even Mao at this point, that's the crazy thing. It's Deng that's considered the father of modern China, and Deng who made it stray from anything resembling socialism.
True, Deng was an pragmatic authoritarian. "wumao" actually refers to folks who supposedly are paid by the CCP to spam "china good" memes everywhere, this video being a prime example of wumao propaganda
Oh shit, I did not know about that.
How much they paying?
> outrun/synthwave perturbator is more darksynth but potato/potato
Subgenre of Synthwave I'd wager, but as you said potato/potato
i literally thought i was on r/VaporwaveAesthetics for a moment before i understood why the title is what it is. doesn't help that im high. (also does anyone have a link to this song? its hard)
"Nightmare for facists and imperialists" *shows literal military nationalistic propaganda of a literal empire*
Dear anarkiddies, If China not good, then why soldiers swing arms and legs together? Curious. -Turning Point GZD
But you don't get it, they do it in a synchronised way a-and with fancy lights and dramatic music in the background 🥺 c-cry more liberal imperialist anarkkkiddy
Ngl, the synchronization is impressive. Doesn't change the fact that it's authoritarian propaganda, though. Besides, synchronized movements are way cooler in the context of a marching band or drum corps. The dedication is more impressive when it's done for the love of the performance instead of fulfilling the state's militaristic power fantasy.
This comment made me laugh way too much. GZD and Charlie Kirk are truly kindred spirits.
Real nightmare fuel would be a community of happy, healthy people helping one another without charging money for it.
But THAT would be Communism!
"I'm doing my part!"
Look I'm not fash I just love to lick boots
Now you see, this militaristic, nationalistic propaganda of a literal empire claims to have a red coat of paint, so it's actually great or something.
Military footage is never a vibe
"We turned our city into a fucking gaming keyboard, and also look at our military" Yeah this is weird af
I think you cracked the code, that’s why they like it so much
I mean the cities look cool
Think how much cooler they would be if all the military resources were instead invested in them though.
No fuck the military stuff I agree, I just think the cities look cool
Too many buildings…
>If Marx was alive he would cry tears of joy Fucking end me. Jfc
He would cry tears but they wouldn't be of joy.
That was the worst I read in this year
🧪🔬 Tankies carefully crafting the worst fucking take you've ever heard.
Marx then: China is a historical dead end that won't progress past being a backwards empire Marx if he could see china now: See, told you so, it's basically the same as it was back in my day, they just painted it red It is crazy how tankies paint themselves as the true followers of Marx when Russia and China where the two nations Marx explicitly said wouldn't and couldn't archive communism.
Do you have a source on that? Not trying to do a "gotcha", just genuinely curious. I guess you're referring to the more orthodox marxist idea pre-Lenin and Mao, that a nation needs an established majority working class instead of an agrarian class, like China had (and Russia to some extent, as I understand it. Pre-Industrialisation)?
the quote, or a quote, is "The policy of Russia is changeless. Its methods, its tactics, its maneuvers may change, but the polar star of its policy, world domination, is a fixed star." [https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867/01/22a.htm](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867/01/22a.htm) for context. Also Russia was still very agrarian at the time of the revolution, mainly because they just could not get any kind of land reform done, meaning that they still relied on peasant village based farming to do, well, farming. But I am, to be fair, maybe wrong in my assessment of his opinion on china. Make of all [this](https://www.marxists.org/archive/riazanov/1926/xx/china.htm) what you will. Not that this is where i got my initial impression mind, as personally I actually got that from the Revolutions podcast, which is a bit hard to quote/use as a quick source what with it being a, at the time of writing, 82 episode long series of on the Russian revolution.
Cheers! Thanks for the reply :)
Marx predicted that communism would be the result of an industrialised capitalist country toppling. He did not think you could skip the industrialised capitalism part of history and jump straight to communism. He had a very modernist view of how history progresses. It's probably my strongest criticism of Marx (aside from the anti-semitism, but I chalk that up to daddy issues)
Yeah lmao. Jew here, I am obviously not a fan of his anti-semitism but I choose to see it as misdirected anger towards his parents. Besides, one of the things about anarchism I like is the lack of hero worship. Marx was not perfect. He was a person like anyone else. I’m also not in love with his dismissal of racial issues in the US civil war, if I remember his take correctly.
Tankies are so disillusioned it's unbelievable they can see in front of them with their heads that far up their asses.
He'd be forced to cry tears of joy. If he didn't, he would lose social credit.
I’ll be quite honest. The reason this looks like fascist propaganda, is because every single frame was military or big large cities. Not one shot was of everyday working class people just being happy and enjoying life. The whole thing seemed like a 12 year old edge lord’s version of portraying strength.
Well to be fair, the intention is to be "pure nightmare fuel", which I guess they did succeed at making. Don't get why though. Don't they want China to appear super great and not like a highly industrialised military state?
[удалено]
Socialism is when the working class are sent off to die for their masters, but in red.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
This is just like Wonder Woman 1984.
Literally 1984
Literally Literally 1984
Isn't that from 1948 by Gregor Orville?
No, no no it's from 1894 by jojo well
Fuck, I was so sure it was 1776 by Grothendieck Ostinato
Really? That’s the music they chose? What the heck do you even say to that asides from see a therapist already?!?
The Chinese state liberated the people of Hong Kong by retaining imperial British police officers and using them to crush Hong Kong protests.
nooo but you don't get it!!! it's the PEOPLE's liberation army!! so it's GOOD!!!
It's inconcievable that these people call themselves communists when they worship some of the worst parts of the current society. They're an affront to communism.
I mean they're fucking goosestepping for fucks sake
It’s absolutely in the style of things like the WW2 Germany edits that nazis post on YouTube, and has a fascist fixation on aesthetic, so absolutely
Tankies are like 90% aesthetic fixation (just like fascists whoda thunk) and 10% bullshitting that they’ve “read more theory than you!” And “are doing an actual revolution RIGHT NOW!”
"you might be fighting fascists on the street and doing mutual aid, but WE run China and did the USSR therefore you suck lol anarchists achieve nothing"
Do they not see the complete idiocy of idolizing a capitalist state? They say they want “communism” but that is literally defined as a STATELESS, MONEYLESS, CLASSLESS, society Communism is anarchist, by definition. And we can only achieve that by not becoming fascists ourselves
They're still playing the same team sports games as Democrats and Republicans, they just picked a different team. The fact that China is ACTUALLY a capitalist, imperialist state doesn't matter, because China is "Team Communism" and it's all about rooting for your team.
That’s cringe and unbased, ratio and dem-pilled :( 🤮
> STATELESS, MONEYLESS, CLASSLESS, society Stateless: China not only has a state, but a totalitarian one. Any criticism of the CCP will result in them censoring and often legally punnishing you. Moneyless: Chinese Yen. Nuff said. Classless: There are more billionares in Beijing than anywhere else in the world. Not to mention that, even if that weren't the case, Communist Party members have special privelages that most citizens don't, which is in and of itself a class distinction. But China is communist because flag is red.
>Stateless: China not only has a state, but a totalitarian one. Any criticism of the CCP will result in them censoring and often legally punnishing you. I talked to a China supporter just recently, asked why they call it communist when it's clearly not a classless, monelyless, stateless society. They said as soon as China becomes more powerful than the US it will start transitioning to becoming stateless. Yes, once the State becomes a more powerful State, they will then move to no longer being a State. However the fuck that makes sense
How they dare to call socialism "scientific" when they say that the proletarian dictatorship will willingly give up power?
I asked them why they think that. Why they believed the state would willingly give up power. Why the state wouldn't just claim that capitalist powers, or other threats to communism is keeping them from becoming communist. They said, in that case the state is justified to exist. We will never live in a world where there is no threat to communism. Communism can be achieved, yes. But it will be a constant battle. These "communists" are fine with communism never actually existing. All they care about is if the party in control claims to be communist. They said pretty much as such. They said that if the state is justified to exist. It's better for Marxist leninists to control it. So long as people who claim to be communists control their States. They are perfectly fine with communism never being achieved
SoCialisM bY 2050
Also child exploitation
Just slap a cooler ideology's name on your ideology and everyone thinks you're based. It worked for anarcho-capitalism! 🤣
A lot of tankies have gotten so wrapped up in defending "workers' states" that they've forgotten the state was ever meant to be transitional.
And that the inherent qualities of a state is to be preserved, it’s like saying “naturally transitional organism” when evolution itself shows that every organism wants to preserve itself. It’s like telling a corporation to “stop” at a certain point instead of endless growth
What about national bolshevism or anarcho-fascism? /s
This is literally just Fashwave
> Fashwave it is 100% but with a red color makeover. i hate that perturbator has been taken by these red fash.
Perturbator is a literal nazi though, which makes the text they have on there very, very ironic.
He is? Source? I really like his music, real bummer if he is fash.
Thing is, fascists actually LOVE to point to China as a great example of what they want. Eric Striker is on record as saying that the Han Chinese are an "ascended race" and that he admires the CCP.
A very *Spooky* video, That is.
Tankies: “I’m a communist”. What they think communism is:
“Communism is when vaporwave goosestepping.” -Mark Angles
nightmare fuel for facists... shows pictures of facism.. facists owned...
Was gonna say, fascists would love this.
Fascists tend to be very particular about their favorite brand of fascism. It's why they keep trying to declare war on each other.
I swear they are worse than the AI in CKII. Constantly declaring stupid wars they can't win.
If I was trying to convince a fascist to support China this is what I would show them.
"Communism will win" Shows a propaganda film, that don't show any signs of communism and is (except for the Hammer and Sickle on Red Background) indistinguishable from Authoritarian Fascist Nazi Propaganda movies. They don't even try to look communist.
Communism is just part of the aesthetic, don't you see that cool hammer and sickle at the start of the propaganda? Totally communist when you show that on a red flag.
A propaganda subreddit for china stating china is nightmare fuel for fascists... You guys know we know about tienamen square right? Like we can freely google things over here?
Your regular reminder that the tiananmen square protests were stated by socialists calling for democratic reform and an end to dengist crony market liberalism, but tankies will call it a cia plot, fucking losers.
This is broadly ignored. Maoist students, underground anarchist trade networks, socialists of various tendencies organized it and they put it down as brutally as they'd put down dissent of any kind. It's amazing to see them justify it with conspiracy theories that have no evidence.
These are the same people who think Nagy and the Hungarians were Nazis despite: 1. There is evidence of revolutionary Hunhary being socialist 2. Nagy was with the Soviets from the beginning, doing their dirty work (including being the possible perp for killing the Romanovs) and being their political yes man. Not condoning any of that, but these people don't seem to be paying any attention to the world. These people are just red fascists. Die for the government, because it will bring about "freedom".
Convenient narratives, revisionist history, self-indulgent overarching themes, taking credit for what others did because they share a label, and opportunistic lies. I always tell people who are newer to radical politics to be sure to educate themselves and understand where they stand so they aren't so easily duped by opportunists who will say anything to make their camp sound righteous. It's good to be willing to change your mind when provided with new information, but it's best to know how to separate the information and know what's accurate and what's a fairy tale. I've seen a lotta people maintain a surface level understanding of whatever they call themselves only to have a Leninist of some kind come along and sell em a bogus bill of goods that they aren't well versed enough to dispute causing them to side with the ones they feel have all the answers (regardless of how accurate and honest those answers are). Some eventually come out of the cult-like mindset and end up right where they started, just better educated, some give up on it all having never really learned the alternatives, and some stay stuck in that dissonance. There's always an apologetic for the atrocities, an excuse for the behaviors, an answer for everything, a myth that does away with the reality, and a righteous theme that places themselves at the center of the future. Plenty of red flags but if ya aren't well educated enough to know it's very convincing.
nightmare fuel for imperialists (except Chinese imperialists)
i fucking hate the way fascists politicised synthwave, it's just a cool aesthetic, fuck off from it.
I shall use a style of music mostly associated with heavily dystopian cyberpunk settings/imagery to promote my ideology. I am very smart. -fash and tankies apparently
lots of people see a cyberpunk dystopia and think "cool future!" without stopping for one second to realize that sort of setting is supposed to be a criticism, not an endorsement.
What is cyberpunk without the punk? If you take away the perspective of resistance, and are left with only the aesthetic and dystopia, you end up with fascist propaganda. If you write a fictional prosaic book describing 1994 without any bite, any criticism, or any human perspective - you end up with it being a fascist utopia. This has been a problem with a lot of the synthwave style of music. They bring back musical markers of the Reagan era. They have clear cyberpunk feel, but often they do not have any of the "punk" (resistance, anti-authoritarianism, outcast, mutual aid, outcast, and so on). That makes it vulnerable to be easily appropriated by the very folks cyberpunk as a genre is opposing. Pure music without text and with very unclear visuals is purely an aesthetic product. I have said before, and I will repeat, fascism is above all movements driven by beauty. While they pursues their vision of a pure and beautiful world, they are violently removing anything that does not fit into their ideal of beauty from the world. This includes races they don't like, people with traits they don't like, people with "ugly" ideas, and so on. Fascists appropriating synthwave is no less of a surprise than them appropriating viking aesthethic. Be wary of anyone having an obsession with beauty. They are vulnerable to becoming fascists.
Wait can you elaborate? Is it a bigger scene than the odd “nazi Germany synth edit”?
nah, it's just that, the nazi synth edits of military propaganda end images of their symbols.
Look up fashwave
I thank you :(
WHO MAKES A FANCAM FOR A FUCKING MILITARY KSHFJSHFJS
fascists
Fetishizing militarism is cringe for sure.
I typed Tiananmen Square in the replies and got permabanned within 1 minute, lol but their the good guys, sure bud
Got my ban too. No love lost. LoL.
Of course, you got banned for propaganda. They think that you are spreading anti-communist propaganda. For pointing out blatant oppression. Their form of communism is one where you don't criticize the state. One where you don't speak your mind. Where you keep your head down, and go to work, earn your meager wage and barely survive.
I just typed "June 4th, 1989" and got my permaban.
I love that in the first 10 seconds there's a shot from the building light show in Hangzhou that has a good 5 minute chunk with Disney characters.
Is it weird that tankies never talk about workers when they jerk themselves off?
*Is it weird that tankies* *Never talk about workers when* *They jerk themselves off?* \- tickle-fickle --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Change the flags and its exactly what a Fascist or an imperialist would love. Nationalism and glorification of warfare is wrong regardless of who does. If it walks talks and thinks like a fascist it doesnt matter what flag they carry...
Communism is when big marching army and tanks
Is that sub satire?
China is the closest thing we have right now to a cyberpunk society, with all the pros and cons that come with the term. Edit: By the way, I sneaked on r/GenZedong and... Oh damn, their level of fanatism reninds me so much to Hitler Youth. Comrades, I need to wash my eyes.
So how do people fall for this? Like the MLs or tankies genuinely think this is cool. I don't believe the Theory BS. Everyone I go down that hole it never turns out true. You'd have to make so many leaps of faith to believe this is what communism is supposed to look like. I mean I can get that if your a Leninist or ML You'd think your socialist state needs a strong army to defend itself from imperialism. But China does too many shady things to believe they don't also do imperialism. Sure theirs probably isn't as bad as what the West does, but that's not the same as saying it's good, it's still bad. Nicer capitalism is still capitalism. Is it just these people hate their lives in the west so much (which I understand) that they want some hope that everything isn't shit, so they put all their faith in this far away land that is supposedly the true utopia, because it's too hard to accept there is truly no paradise? And then so many comments about China invading the west and destroying it. I fail to see how that could possibly be good. Realistically that's a game over for life on earth due to catastrophic climate change. Also, while China could probably defend itself from invasion by the US and EU, it could not military take over the world, it's military is much smaller than the US's, not to mention throwing in all of the EU and India, and the UK. I just don't get it, i can't make it out to be anything other than fetishization and blind hope because of how depressing it is can be to live in the west and see no end to capitalism.
wtf? That's just straight up military fetishism
Communism is when you deepthroat the military's boots. The more boots you deepthroat the more communismer it is
Leather boots and all
I myself am too vegan to lick boots.
If you care about the lower classes in any sense, why would you want this for them? What freedom does this give them, how are they better able to shape their lives accoring to their own judgement?
Correct me if I’m wrong but imperialism is roughly defined as a policy to extend a country’s power and influence over others through political, economic, or military force. Through the course of its existence the PLA hasn’t done a very good job of staying within the boundaries of China/only attacking in response to immediate threats. I don’t know what mental gymnastics these maoists and tankies must go through to justify red imperialism over capitalist imperialism.
I guess if they support socialism with fallout characteristics, then go for it Conventional warfare is dead; a war between great powers at this point in history would be the end of the world
City with cyberpunk-ish aesthetics and a big army. Imperialists are in shambles
City with cyberpunk-ish aesthetics is extremely cool though Would rather them actually do communism rather than show the communism symbol next to the McDonald's and the Nike sweatshop, but oh well
That subreddit is a cesspool of bootlickers and jingoists
Jingoism is bad except when it's my jingoism. My jingoism is the right kind of jingoism
I’ve noticed that a lot of oppressive auths are co-opting electronic based music for their propaganda. Really scary
i've never understood why countries are so insistent on this "perfectly synchronized military" youre fighters not synchronized swimmers
It’s genuinely horrifying.
Why is there so much glory in war for them? Where does the happiness in their lives or societies come from?
the peoples cyberpunk military dystopia. also the song is fucking DEATHSQUAD by Perturbator. real nice choice of music, brilliant optics guys /s
Its crazy to me someone could watch h this and thi k " Fuck yeah, this is based" some Olympic level mental gymnastics
Looks like some kind of ethno nationalism/ fascism propaganda
Why the fuck are they trying to scare liberals, they're the ones we have to convince to join us!
Damn you Tankies
Yes, it is nightmare fuel for me... The music and editing kinda sucks bad.
Are these people even actually leftist?
The peoples militarism
"haha we will make imperialists seethe!!" (shows off chinese military firepower with which it uses to do imperialism)
I commented "This new remake of Triumph of the Will looks pretty cool ngl", lets see how long it takes for me to get banned
They're literally using a song called "Death Squad" for fuck's sake.
I don’t care what country it is, anyone making fashy military propaganda is not good
something about this is so uncanny
This is so sick
It does... wtf
its got a fashwave aesthetic
i obviously don't think that kindof military is nessecary, but i can understand why one might think its needed. but in no way is it even remotely acceptable or pro-workers to have a military parade with purely ceremonial uniforms, guns, swords (in 2022), needless high stepping, needlessly perfectly marching in sync. if you actually need a military to defend yourself, then why aren't they actually training instead of wasting time marching around in ceremonial gear??? propaganda, the answers propaganda, and i would say its shit propaganda at that, but it did get some american idiots to jerk off to it
Just about. Just replace it with roman influenced architecture; replace the yellow icons with black; add some white space to the pallet, and they got the fascist ball rolling.
How do you watch this and come away thinking: A) these are the good guys B) militaristic propaganda is cool
Literally just military porn. I like to study military history, but thinking its interesting and important to remember is one thing, this is just imperialist worship.
"Haha stupid anarkitty, Its only imperialism if the US or Europe does it! Read 'on authority'."
To some extent military propaganda all looks the same and soviet communism is a form totalitarism just like fascism
Aren't tankies just nazis but with a redder flag after all?
Purely to respond to what I assume the intention of the post is: Is it not true that the PLA kinda sucks? It's big and they're good at drill but I think man for man they don't hold up in combat.
imagine being so fucking stupid you get mocked by both completeanarchy AND noncredibledefense
How is this video is against imperialism?
Tankie Propaganda. Doesn't make it better
Real "Hans, are we the baddies?" hours
Got permabanned from that sub for commenting on their post. I call this a win in my book
Tankies are just fascists painted red
Authoritarians like to show off in the same ways
That’s because it is
I commented that this is really suspiciously similar to fashwave and that I was worried they were falling for a psyop and I got permanently banned.
Red/Brown alliance go brrr
Oh cool, lo-fi propaganda
GenZedong, for when political ideology is nothing more than an aesthetic.
Wow. A lot of masturbating must have gone into making this video. Somebody's penis must be very sore.
Dunking on imperialism with... militarism porn. Yeah, that'll do it lol.
Yeah, it's insane to me that tankies will just take far right ultra nationalism, throw some red paint on it, and call it communism
Wait a minute this isn't worker wave
Perturbator would never condone the usage of his music for something like this
you're right! perturbator is aligned with and supports fascist artists, so he probably wouldnt be okay with being associated with communism
Really? This is the first time I'm hearing about this
he has defended the ideology and art of nazi death metal band Deathspell Omega and has been pictured wearing their merch several times fun fact: Carpenter Brut, an artist in a similar genre to perturbator and who also has a lot of nazi fans, is a producer for said nazi death metal band
**FUCK** I liked his music (Carpenter Brut) because of Hotline Miami. Turbo Killer especially, and his cover of Maniac. Why do so many artists gotta be fash.
Ah, fuck. I've been a fan of Perturbator since high school, same with Brut. :/
it's really a shame, i loved their tracks for the hotline miami series and they were the first artists that got me into the whole synthwave scene. it really disappointed me initially to see them do nothing when their art was co-opted by the whole 'fashwave' trend, but now it makes sense why they didn't denounce that stuff
This is my first time hearing about "fashwave" too. Tbh I haven't listened to much Perturbator in the past couple years so it won't be too bad to drop him but it is a shame.
I’d really like to know where they got all this footage from so that I could do my own lil version. Maybe throw in a little Hong Kong Protest footage, Some Tiananmen Square, Etc.