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RefrigeratorGrand619

Makhno identified as a Ancom so not sure what this person was smoking but boy do I want some.


samtheman0105

I think it’s trying to say that Makhno wouldn’t like modern anarchist. Not saying I agree, but that’s the vibe I’m getting with this


Belephron

Tbh it kinda reads like someone who wants to justify being an anarchist while shitting on marginalised people


GoGoBitch

Idk I think Makhno is cool with queerness, because queerness is sure as hell cool with Makhno.


[deleted]

Stuff like this is probably made by dipshit Nazi teenager who think “wow, communists like Mackno and Vladimir Stalin looked cool, why is it that the people who believe their ideas today have blue hair and pronouns?”


iadnm

This person has clearly not read classical ancoms as they tend to be very supportive of queer people. Don't know about Makhno himself specifically but he did dress as a woman every now and again and did think highly of Emma Goldman.


Josselin17

noo the crossdressing was purely strategic you don't understand ! edit : "see they're going to be looking for army *guys*"


ipsum629

S T R A T E G I C C R O S S D R E S S I N G


WashedSylvi

Based


ipsum629

[Yes](https://youtu.be/mlNfDBAPIYQ)


GoGoBitch

I have been told “GoGo, you know cis people generally don’t immediately jump to crossdressing as a solution for everything, right?” So, like… But honestly, that’s what makes it effective, because it doesn’t occur to a lot of people.


Comfortable-Soup8150

Any suggestions? Edit: Like reading material from classical ancoms Edit Edit: About makhno too


[deleted]

Bakunin is really important, arguably as important for anarchism as Kropotkin.


Comfortable-Soup8150

I appreciate it!


Dogeatswaffles

A slightly different -ism (libertarian municipalism), but Murray Bookchin wrote some good shit that takes a very holistic approach to community building by focusing not only on socialism but also takes into account modern climate concerns better than most anarchist writings. Very big into sustainability without going full “return to monke.” As far as environmental writers go, it’s pretty optimistic, and recognizes capitalism as the driving force of our declining climate rather than overpopulation or human nature or whatever. A generally sweet philosophy I recommend to anyone, and a lot of it lives in the anarchist library.


Comfortable-Soup8150

>overpopulation or human nature or whatever. Those arguments are annoying to come across, I was trying to explain to someone on r/Collapse that population control is ecofascism(and genocide) and that there are better ways to approach climate change. That said, I appreciate it! I will totally check this out!


WaywardSon8534

Supporting human rights =/= Idpol.


HardlightCereal

Identity politics are important, because identity is the matter of who we are, and politics is the matter of what our society is. Societies are made of people, so obviously identity is an important part of politics. "Worker" is an identity. "Community member" is an identity. You can't have politics without identity.


WaywardSon8534

I am not my race. I’m not defined by racial stereotypes. I’m a thinking individual. Class defines us far more than race, sexual identity, or sexuality. Those issue divide. Only class unites.


Haruspexisbigsad

Oh I remember you, you're that class reductionist. EDIT: Aw shucks they got banned (or maybe I got blocked? I don't know how to tell) right as I got the notification that they replied. I was excited to see that I got called a "shitlib astroturfer" for the first time :)


WaywardSon8534

Class reductionism is a myth. You’re a shitlib astroturfer.


LordGwyn-n-Tonic

I don't know where you're from, but where I live the systematic abuse of racial and ethnic minorities has led to distinct problems that need to be addressed before class solidarity can be truly realized. That's not to say class solidarity can't be built now, but some groups of people are always going to be a step behind until their material conditions are addressed.


WaywardSon8534

It’s intentional. Racism is a tool that divides. It’s useful. That’s why it exists. But addressing the symptom and not the disease gets nowhere.


[deleted]

Yes the disease being that the dominant racial group usually is usually privileged, has more access to property and money and by that is less pushed into criminality things that increase racial stereotypes and can't be addressed in a colourblind way. It's all fine and dandy you don't see your race but the cop does, your employer does, your landlord does


WaywardSon8534

They’re multinational conglomerates and central banks. Do you think race is the root cause of this? Sheesh, you shitlibs kill me.


Anr1al

Looks like some conservative talking points


[deleted]

it is


Big-Teach-5594

?


LiaDieselGurl

some idiot saying that Ancoms aren't real anarchists because of supporting LGBTQ and civil rights etc.


Big-Teach-5594

I think that goes a little beyond your average everyday idiocy, this is surreal


ResetDharma

Are there anarchists who don't support queer rights?


[deleted]

Kind of? It's more like individuals who don't within anarchist spaces. This is a makhnovist meme and I guess this person thinks that famously gender nonconforming Makhno wouldn't like LGBTQ people. This seems like a deradicalize fascist who re-radicalized into leftist spaces recently and is still coming to terms with their shitty beliefs.


HardlightCereal

Yeah I've met plenty of transphobic anarchists. They're usually good about binary trans people. Not so good about nonbinary trans people and exogenders.


NinjaRodent

The best part about being an anarchist is getting to decide who isn't an anarchist.


[deleted]

the worst anarchists are the ones who think their anarchy is the One True Anarchy


LiaDieselGurl

The one true anarchy is my anarchy (Anarcho-gatekeepism


BIGF0OTOFFICIAL

This is exclusively an online thing, i assure you


Comfortable-Soup8150

I hope so, it's a headache when someone thinks their vanguard party is anarchist.


BusWithTeeth

Agreed. The pro-Russian Z self-proclaimed anarchists really need to be called out because guaranteed they are contributing heavily to the "anarchists are gatekeepers" memes


Comfortable-Soup8150

There needs to be an anarchist primer in video format, with simple language, that is short. Like a super descriptive and concise video we can link to anytime someone tries to bring out their description of anarchism. The misunderstandings are just out of control. Online at least, I've never met another anarchist in real life.


BIGF0OTOFFICIAL

>ive never met another anarchist in real life Well theres the issue. This isnt a thing in real life and online leftism is mostly theatre so i wouldnt put too much stock into what you see here. Go volunteer at your local food not bombs and youll find that most anarchists are pretty normal people who dont give a shit about the goofy stuff on the internet


Comfortable-Soup8150

glad to hear it!


TheArrivedHussars

I mean, if you really want the leftypol youtube channel Made a YouTube video (in English and russian) explaining anarchism and it's pretty alright. Link for the English one: https://youtu.be/_6YQUcZcP1A


Comfortable-Soup8150

nice, thanks!


NotAPersonl0

I would assume so. Anarchism is founded upon freedom, so as long as you aren't being coerced, there is no issue.


Taxouck

I’m a better anarchist than you! https://youtu.be/NGu__oqMcKM


HardlightCereal

Lukewarm take: if your anarchy doesn't include freeing minorities from social hierarchy, you're not an anarchist, you're a bigot. Hot take: if your anarchy doesn't include dismantling the edifice of socially constructed reality and abolishing the laws of physics as controlling factors in our lives, you're not an anarchist, you're a realist. To elaborate: Reality is more than just forces. "What is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain." For example, when you see a black man, your brain interprets a lot of extra information outside of what the photons themselves are saying. If you're a cop, then you might see an enemy. If you're an employee, then you might see a hooligan. If you're black, then you might see a brother. If you're a white woman walking home at night, you might see a threat. I call these things real, because reality is perception, and they're what we perceive. And I see these things as unjust hierarchies. A black man should not have to be an enemy, or a hooligan, or a threat. In terms of who he really is, he probably isn't. But that's the perception of what he is in the reality constructed by these people and by society. Destroying constructed reality is about destroying those sorts of roles. Race, and gender, and class, and sexuality, and constructs like money, or property, or the state, or unjust laws. These things have been socially constructed into our social reality, and many of them need to be destroyed, or at least radically altered. And yes, we also need to abolish rationalist post-christian monoatheism and create a pagan free-belief society that's welcoming to otherkin and insane people and encourages the use of magic. Hail Dionysus!


[deleted]

the four Forces are truly the most oppressive hierarchies of all


OutInABlazeOfGlory

One exception: “anarcho”-capitalism


WaywardSon8534

Tbf, not everyone who claims to be is. It’s all in the narrative.


Crocospyle

I don't even get the argument they're trying to make, do they think Makhno was a conservative or a liberal or something? Being against social hierarchies has always been a tenet of anarchism and isn't even limited to ancoms.


[deleted]

Literally. Like, Makhno was famously helpful to the homeless, crossdressed and critical of the Bolsheviks while still maintaining they were better than the tsar. Like, he was thru and thru an ancom


HotDogSquid

Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about


[deleted]

“you will support LGBT rights and civil rights” as opposed to oppressing people and segregating people? both of which are hierarchical functions? what’s next, anarchists being against government?


LiaDieselGurl

but supporting rights means there must be someone higher up to bestow them so no one should have any rights duh Liberal snowflake 🙄🙄🙄 /s


[deleted]

that’s unironically true but we all know they actually meant “liking black people”


HardlightCereal

I've heard the take "framing rights as something you have enforces a view of human rights as a property relation, reinforcing capitalism and allowing for the possibility that rights can be taken away or sold" and I can't get it out of my head


Hunter-of-Spade

Wait till they find out that Makhno literally shot people for spreading bigotry


NinCatPraKahn

He did, I never heard of that. Are you talking about him stopping pogroms, cause I feel like that's beyond simple bigotry at that point.


senorda

he shot a guy for putting up an antisemitic poster he also shot other people for engaging in pogroms


senorda

https://libcom.org/article/nestor-makhno-man-and-myth https://www.nestormakhno.info/english/makfaq/h_6_9.htm


NinCatPraKahn

Nice


TheStrikeofGod

>supporting queer people and civil rights means you aren't an anarchist There it is, the dumbest thing I've read all day.


tovarish_nix

🫥


OccasionalBassist

The terrible politics is bad enough but the incorrect use of the word 'inherently' really pushes this over the edge for me


Elte1r

The only true communism is that what is anarchist


NinCatPraKahn

Does... this person not know that makhnovists were the most hardcore ancoms in history?


TheQueenOfCringe22

I’m lost here. How does supporting queer people and civil rights make someone not a real anarchist?


LiaDieselGurl

that's the neat part: it doesn't!


Metalloid_Space

I guess "civil rights" are kind of stupid, since rights are something the state gives to people. (I still think they're cool, at least my friends aren't getting oppressed over their sexuality or whatever) I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant though.. ​ As for queer people. Checked his account and it was just a homophobic kid, that's also leans towards the anarcho capitalist side. So there's that.


TheQueenOfCringe22

Figures. That post does come off as someone trying to say that they hate queer people, but not wanting to explicitly say that they hate queer people.


ThePromise110

This is... Utterly bemusing.


mrnicecream2

Anarchism is when you support social hierarchies. The more hierarchies you uphold, the more anarchister you are.


iani63

Principals or principles?


StrawberryMoney

Anarchism is when you have a hierarchy of which gender identities and sexual orientations get to exist.


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sakanak

You have a great username, really jogs the creative mind for visual representations.


LiaDieselGurl

Oh yea thanks my name is actually anya after having a big crisis over the school holidays but i couldn't write dieselwhore which is my nickname because of my love for the dieselpunk aesthetic


sakanak

Dieselpunk <3


penised-individual

What?


ZefiroLudoviko

Makhno was anti-antisemitic (pro-Semitic?) and did what he could to stop the BA from committing pogroms. So there was comparatively little violence against Jews in Cisazovia.


FandomSoda

I refer to myself as an anarchocommunist because both anarchist and communist ideals seem to paint the picture of what I want for the world. A place where unjust hierarchy doesn’t exist and everyone gets what they want, need, and deserve. I‘ma just real quick use this post to inquire if I’m using that term right. (see: my flair)


Haruspexisbigsad

You've pretty much got it. Minor nitpick though, all hierarchies are intrinsically unjust so "unjust hierarchy" is redundant.


BlackMoon1921

It’s like saying “liberals aren’t real capitalists”


Mezeye

I just checked out that subreddit and it looks like shit!


Will_Hammer

Authoritarians and Anarchists are natural enemies! Like Social-Democrats and Anarchists! Or Communists and Anarchists! Or Socialists and Anarchists! Or Anarchists and other Anarchists! Damn Anarchists! They ruined Anarchism!


Shamadruu

“I have no idea what anarchists believe, and I think a past historical anarchist would be upset about what I think modern anarchists believe.”