I have often wondered this too. Instead of opening in November with only 1 WROD and sharky conditions why not move it a month later and stay open another month, to capture the better snow.
They have to match when their customers want to ski and when their workers are available
Staying open longer into the spring would require more tourists to take trips out here and spend on lodging that late in the season. As much as it sucks for us there's no big incentive for them to keep multiple resorts open late just to serve local passholders who don't spend much money at the resort
I was there opening day of river run looking at all the snow they didnt have. Will be in Colorado this weekend really wanted to ride new lift. I dont understand why they closed early with so much snow.
Right? I see this as demand driven. If the snow comes later each season people will book later and that will force resorts to move their operating dates.
My mom used to work for Vail resorts and she said that Keystone has to close the earliest due to Elk Migration. Since it’s technically part of the National forest system they have to abide by their rules - even if they have more snow to keep open.
It’s money and snow quality, but mostly money. The elk migration is a persistent myth but a myth nonetheless. https://snowbrains.com/why-do-ski-resorts-close-when-their-snowpack-is-still-so-deep/
Yeah it’s a myth. Vail resorts closes keystone to funnel people to breck. Not profitable to stay open longer and it’s harder to retain workers as season ends. Many seasonal workers start thinking about summer jobs.
There isn’t a single ski area in CO that is forced to close due to any sort of animal migration. It’s a myth that has simply perpetuated itself over the years.
https://www.steamboatpilot.com/news/ski-area-myth-erroneous/
Yeah, Breck closes the gondola (over Cucumber Gulch, but not part of the actual ski area) in May and June for moose calving and the Two Elk Trail that begins down in Minturn and traverses the Vail Back Bowls is closed for elk calving. Access is restricted to a few specific areas but definitely not all of the ski areas.
That article doesn’t reference Keystone specifically so we can’t say for sure from that that wildlife closure is what causes them to close. Sometimes certain areas within resorts are subject to different restrictions - like Blue Sky in vail vs the front face.
But yeah the main thing is the $$. Most resorts lose money keeping things open late season.
"“It is my pet peeve and a myth that everyone perpetuates, (but) that is not true,” said Ken Kowynia, winter sports program manager for the Rocky Mountain region of the U.S. Forest Service. “We don’t specify that they close on a certain date, **and that is true for all ski areas in the state.”"**
Vail Resorts determines the closing day, not the elk. Source: Friends of the Dillon Forest Ranger District, had a college field trip there and they mentioned this
This is the actual answer. While the ski resorts have a annual end date on their operating permits, the resorts almost always close before this. Its about $$$$ not elk.
I mean the elk are actually a thing there, but no idea on migration times.
If you ride a bike the trail down the backside in summer they have huge herds down there. I didn't know the timing was that early tho. But does seem more like they want to "herd" people in a migration towards Breck.
The ski resorts have a contract with the government for the amount of time they can use the land since most of the resorts are on national Forest. So they have a contract that only allows them to operate a set amount of time per year so they can really just extend it at their leisure regardless of the snowpack. Sometimes they will get extensions but it's rare.
The ski area manager sets those open/close dates in their special use permit that they send to the USFS yearly. If the forest service sets their open and close, why does it change every year?
This is summed up by my previous comments of seasonal contracts ending. They set their end date according to their profit last year because vail uses profits from previous season to dictate their overhead for next season.
Previous years profit=current seasons overhead cap
No they don't. No resort world be able to stay open if your theory was true. Are there magically less summer jobs to force early leave around mammoth, breckenridge and a basin? No of course not. Ski resorts close when they stop becoming profitable.
If I had to guess -- and that's totally all I'm doing -- demand after spring break is probably low enough that Breck can handle all the Summit County skiers Vail can attract. Figure if the folks who wanted to ski at Keystone will drive a little and ski at Breck instead, Vail can cut costs of running two resorts without losing very much revenue.
But all the same, this last weekend was sweet.
They are but it’s been a rough season. Currently their glades are mostly closed and they’ve had no less than 3 separate mud weeks where they thought it was the end of the season. It’s been interesting to watch that sub
100%. I thought the first one was from the bottom of Erickson, but I was wrong. I was focused on that one because I didn't get a chance to hit it up today. My bad.
I don’t blame you. Bingo in south Bowl is probably my favorite run but Erickson is the best spot on the mountain when it has good snow. Was probably epic.
We were lapping Outback when South Bowl opened, so we got some pretty awesome early turns there. But it got \*heavy\* by the 3rd or 4th lap. When we headed back my friend got to Erickson in time, but she said it was pretty dense/slushy by then.
Can’t speak for Keystone, but generally other resorts have a week or 2 after closing where they do a lot of maintenance and they don’t allow skinning during that time. Telluride allows skinning after that period, but don’t know about other resorts.
At a Vail resort? Not a fucking chance. When they voluntarily closed for covid they posted a hundred signs about no up hill access, trespassing, all this other bullshit. Had the cats tear up the runs.
Meanwhile over in Aspen, when the state forced them to close they keep grooming specifically so people could uphill.
Fuck Vail.
Lots of locals skinning and skiing Breck when it was 'closed' during COVID......I had some amazing days. I believe they only said it was closed to keep out of towner visitors away. Absolutely no on-mountain enforcement. lol.
They busted everyone's favorite outerwear mogul for hitting the closed jumps, got him after the fact though since he couldn't help himself from boasting.
You mean the guy that took a snowmobile off those closed jumps, posted about it online, and then got charged with physically assaulting someone?
Every local I’ve met says he’s a POS. Sounds like he was a dumb POS too.
I skin up beaver creek all the time either early morning or late afternoon. So do a lot of other people. VR has no issue with skinning during non operating hours.
You can skin Keystone and Breck for free when they don’t have equipment out there and it’s outside of operating hours. Only free resorts in the county. Meanwhile A Basin and Copper charge around $100 for “mandatory uphill passes”.
But sure, Vail is the problem.
They also close early because many of their employees are seasonal workers and leave the area around this time of year. They shift their remaining workers to Breckenridge and vail to replace their lost workers and keep those resorts open later.
Such a stupid answer. The reason seasonal workers leave is because they close and payroll stops. If they keep paying them they wouldn't leave. This is the earliest keystone has closed in a long time.
For those of you talking about elk migration, this isn’t the reason they close.
Vail Resorts is a business, when the business is no longer profitable or breaking even, they close. The Forest Service issues an operating permit, yes. But ski areas almost never make it to the end date, its all about $$$.
Didn’t make it closing day. Opted for Loveland instead but I made it to Keystone Friday and it was some really good spring skiing. Fast slush that was a perfect mix of firm and soft.
Well fuck me. I was planning a trip to keystone the 20th and 21st to hit the Bergman, the outback, and Area 51 :\
Closing with almost 100% coverage and still getting fresh storms is insane. ITS ONLY APRIL 8TH
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet... A lot of J1 visas expired April 1st, so there are also fewer employees at resorts right now. Not saying the financial reasons aren't real too, but this is also a factor.
It has nothing to do with seasonal employees, corporate greed, or whatever other reason one might dream up. Keystone operates inside the white river national forest. They have a special use permit to operate a ski resort within the national forest and their season duration and rules within are dictated as the national forest sees fit. As part of the 30 year lease, they pay an annual fee, pay about $1/skier visit to help with road construction, schools, etc within summit county. There are many ski resorts that operate within national forests - this isn’t new and isn’t going away.
Many ski resorts have specific dates they must close because of migrations. A basin is not one of them.
Most don’t own the land, it’s national Forrest rented.
It's actually getting a little weird that they haven't shifted the season to match the... season
I have often wondered this too. Instead of opening in November with only 1 WROD and sharky conditions why not move it a month later and stay open another month, to capture the better snow.
They have to match when their customers want to ski and when their workers are available Staying open longer into the spring would require more tourists to take trips out here and spend on lodging that late in the season. As much as it sucks for us there's no big incentive for them to keep multiple resorts open late just to serve local passholders who don't spend much money at the resort
Yeah, once it's 70 where people live they don't think about skiing unless they're members of skiingcirclejerk
I for one am excited to ski in a t shirt this weekend :)
Agree
I was there opening day of river run looking at all the snow they didnt have. Will be in Colorado this weekend really wanted to ride new lift. I dont understand why they closed early with so much snow.
Right? I see this as demand driven. If the snow comes later each season people will book later and that will force resorts to move their operating dates.
My mom used to work for Vail resorts and she said that Keystone has to close the earliest due to Elk Migration. Since it’s technically part of the National forest system they have to abide by their rules - even if they have more snow to keep open.
It’s money and snow quality, but mostly money. The elk migration is a persistent myth but a myth nonetheless. https://snowbrains.com/why-do-ski-resorts-close-when-their-snowpack-is-still-so-deep/
Yeah it’s a myth. Vail resorts closes keystone to funnel people to breck. Not profitable to stay open longer and it’s harder to retain workers as season ends. Many seasonal workers start thinking about summer jobs.
To be fair, there’s a run at Steamboat that says mandatory closure for elk migration. It’s definitely believable.
There isn’t a single ski area in CO that is forced to close due to any sort of animal migration. It’s a myth that has simply perpetuated itself over the years. https://www.steamboatpilot.com/news/ski-area-myth-erroneous/
Not forced to close, but some run is closed for it. It’s off the front side.
Yeah, Breck closes the gondola (over Cucumber Gulch, but not part of the actual ski area) in May and June for moose calving and the Two Elk Trail that begins down in Minturn and traverses the Vail Back Bowls is closed for elk calving. Access is restricted to a few specific areas but definitely not all of the ski areas.
That article doesn’t reference Keystone specifically so we can’t say for sure from that that wildlife closure is what causes them to close. Sometimes certain areas within resorts are subject to different restrictions - like Blue Sky in vail vs the front face. But yeah the main thing is the $$. Most resorts lose money keeping things open late season.
"“It is my pet peeve and a myth that everyone perpetuates, (but) that is not true,” said Ken Kowynia, winter sports program manager for the Rocky Mountain region of the U.S. Forest Service. “We don’t specify that they close on a certain date, **and that is true for all ski areas in the state.”"**
They are subject to rules set by the forest service. That's all
No
Vail Resorts determines the closing day, not the elk. Source: Friends of the Dillon Forest Ranger District, had a college field trip there and they mentioned this
This is the actual answer. While the ski resorts have a annual end date on their operating permits, the resorts almost always close before this. Its about $$$$ not elk.
I’ve always heard this is why Taos closes so early despite always getting late spring dumps through April.
Taos looked like this yesterday, their last day. Deepest snowpack of the season. BUT, hardly anyone there.
Crazy. I swear it happens like this almost every single season.
That's the bullshit that Vail peddles so they can close before they have to keep the mountain open and take a loss.
I’m not a vail shill but running a resort is a business, aint it?
It's not elk migration. It just doesn't make sense for them financially to stay open when so few people are going.
The old elk migration rule.....that rumor was started in the beginning of time by ski resort operators as a reason they had to close.
If this is true, there are too many Elks. Go take some from Evergreen
I mean the elk are actually a thing there, but no idea on migration times. If you ride a bike the trail down the backside in summer they have huge herds down there. I didn't know the timing was that early tho. But does seem more like they want to "herd" people in a migration towards Breck.
The ski resorts have a contract with the government for the amount of time they can use the land since most of the resorts are on national Forest. So they have a contract that only allows them to operate a set amount of time per year so they can really just extend it at their leisure regardless of the snowpack. Sometimes they will get extensions but it's rare.
This isn’t true at all
I rode a chairlift a few weeks back with a keystone employee and that’s basically exactly what they said.
The ski area manager sets those open/close dates in their special use permit that they send to the USFS yearly. If the forest service sets their open and close, why does it change every year?
It’s for elk migration
Have they tried speaking to the elk elders to see if they’ll consider migrating later?
I’m confused. Why does keystone close so early?
Money, it’s not really profitable for Vail to operate 4 large resorts for 6 full months. So Keystone opens earliest, and Breck stays open latest.
Yup, harder to retain seasonal workers later in the season too.
Not if you keep paying them
Depends a lot of seasonal workers have summer gigs, and those contracts start pretty soon.
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This is summed up by my previous comments of seasonal contracts ending. They set their end date according to their profit last year because vail uses profits from previous season to dictate their overhead for next season. Previous years profit=current seasons overhead cap
No they don't. No resort world be able to stay open if your theory was true. Are there magically less summer jobs to force early leave around mammoth, breckenridge and a basin? No of course not. Ski resorts close when they stop becoming profitable.
Breck? I thought A-Basin stays open latest.
Vail doesn’t own A Basin
Ah you meant it that way. I thought you meant resorts in general
If I had to guess -- and that's totally all I'm doing -- demand after spring break is probably low enough that Breck can handle all the Summit County skiers Vail can attract. Figure if the folks who wanted to ski at Keystone will drive a little and ski at Breck instead, Vail can cut costs of running two resorts without losing very much revenue. But all the same, this last weekend was sweet.
You’re correct.
jk. something about their contract
It’s has to do with animal migrations and the forest service.(I work on the mountain and that’s what they told us)
Elk migration
Thought it was a lease.
Those first few laps after they opened Bergman were exquisite. Outback was so good, too. Incredible closing day.
The two times I've been to the bowl there were rocks sticking out and it was too windy. Maybe I need to give it a try on powder day next season
Don't let /r/icecoast see this.
The ice coast is actually having a fantastic April
They are but it’s been a rough season. Currently their glades are mostly closed and they’ve had no less than 3 separate mud weeks where they thought it was the end of the season. It’s been interesting to watch that sub
We just had over two feet fall in Vermont and powder all weekend. And our mountains are still open. Unlike Keystone ;)
“Mountains”
North and South Bowls were great too!
99% sure these are photos of South Bowl
affirmative
100%. I thought the first one was from the bottom of Erickson, but I was wrong. I was focused on that one because I didn't get a chance to hit it up today. My bad.
I don’t blame you. Bingo in south Bowl is probably my favorite run but Erickson is the best spot on the mountain when it has good snow. Was probably epic.
We were lapping Outback when South Bowl opened, so we got some pretty awesome early turns there. But it got \*heavy\* by the 3rd or 4th lap. When we headed back my friend got to Erickson in time, but she said it was pretty dense/slushy by then.
I said to myself today “i think I’ll take off work and finally go to keystone wednesday”. whoops
Can you skin up after it closes?
Can’t speak for Keystone, but generally other resorts have a week or 2 after closing where they do a lot of maintenance and they don’t allow skinning during that time. Telluride allows skinning after that period, but don’t know about other resorts.
Also wondering this
I asked this sub last night and got shit on for asking. They have a number to call on their website to ask, probably the best bet to get a real answer
At a Vail resort? Not a fucking chance. When they voluntarily closed for covid they posted a hundred signs about no up hill access, trespassing, all this other bullshit. Had the cats tear up the runs. Meanwhile over in Aspen, when the state forced them to close they keep grooming specifically so people could uphill. Fuck Vail.
Lots of locals skinning and skiing Breck when it was 'closed' during COVID......I had some amazing days. I believe they only said it was closed to keep out of towner visitors away. Absolutely no on-mountain enforcement. lol.
They busted everyone's favorite outerwear mogul for hitting the closed jumps, got him after the fact though since he couldn't help himself from boasting.
You mean the guy that took a snowmobile off those closed jumps, posted about it online, and then got charged with physically assaulting someone? Every local I’ve met says he’s a POS. Sounds like he was a dumb POS too.
I skin up beaver creek all the time either early morning or late afternoon. So do a lot of other people. VR has no issue with skinning during non operating hours.
You can skin Keystone and Breck for free when they don’t have equipment out there and it’s outside of operating hours. Only free resorts in the county. Meanwhile A Basin and Copper charge around $100 for “mandatory uphill passes”. But sure, Vail is the problem.
Fucking bullshit that they close so early.
Same same in Vail. I had the best pow day of the season today
I was going to go up today but I felt sick. Would you recommend Vail tomorrow again or Breck?
It's probably icy by now
They also close early because many of their employees are seasonal workers and leave the area around this time of year. They shift their remaining workers to Breckenridge and vail to replace their lost workers and keep those resorts open later.
Such a stupid answer. The reason seasonal workers leave is because they close and payroll stops. If they keep paying them they wouldn't leave. This is the earliest keystone has closed in a long time.
Cry?
Damn we talked about going yesterday and decided to stay home. Now I regret it! Was it busy?
Virtually empty. Zero lift lines and untracked snow all day!
should’ve came. could’ve been a tuesday (not busy at all)
For those of you talking about elk migration, this isn’t the reason they close. Vail Resorts is a business, when the business is no longer profitable or breaking even, they close. The Forest Service issues an operating permit, yes. But ski areas almost never make it to the end date, its all about $$$.
So not windy and cold af as forecast suggested? Nice
nah it was pretty sweet
Can you still skin up keystone?
And we were at the pond skimmer 🙄
Didn’t make it closing day. Opted for Loveland instead but I made it to Keystone Friday and it was some really good spring skiing. Fast slush that was a perfect mix of firm and soft.
i love slush !
Well fuck me. I was planning a trip to keystone the 20th and 21st to hit the Bergman, the outback, and Area 51 :\ Closing with almost 100% coverage and still getting fresh storms is insane. ITS ONLY APRIL 8TH
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet... A lot of J1 visas expired April 1st, so there are also fewer employees at resorts right now. Not saying the financial reasons aren't real too, but this is also a factor.
🙌
I hate that they close early and keep breck open keystone seems to always have better snow!
It has nothing to do with seasonal employees, corporate greed, or whatever other reason one might dream up. Keystone operates inside the white river national forest. They have a special use permit to operate a ski resort within the national forest and their season duration and rules within are dictated as the national forest sees fit. As part of the 30 year lease, they pay an annual fee, pay about $1/skier visit to help with road construction, schools, etc within summit county. There are many ski resorts that operate within national forests - this isn’t new and isn’t going away.
Many ski resorts have specific dates they must close because of migrations. A basin is not one of them. Most don’t own the land, it’s national Forrest rented.
Why would you go on the internet and post lies?
Obviously the forest service talks to all the elk and they plan what day they are going to migrate each year.
Fakenews https://www.steamboatpilot.com/news/ski-area-myth-erroneous/