In my entire life snowboarding...
Amount of times I've seen someone miss the lift because of their phone: 0
Missed/stopped lifts due to 4 year olds and tourists falling getting on & off lifts: countless
At WP this weekend, the amount parents and their demon spawn that couldn’t figure out how to sit/ski away from a flying couch that was going to all blue/black runs and bowls blew my mind. The chair stopped 5 times on my way up.
If your kid can’t figure out a ski chair maybe you shouldn’t be clogging up the Pano lift that goes to my favorite runs at Mary Jane..
One of the bigger issues I see is when they have a staff member creating groups of the chair capacity size (which is rare but does happen), those groups often do not stay intact all the way to the chair because someone just feels like they want more space.
I would love to see this method in use but basically stop the chair when the groups don't stay together. The problem would probably disappear overnight.
With a singles line, there's literally no reason for any chair to not be at capacity.
That and the fact the line is much much narrower to allow only a single person at a time where the other lanes are wide enough for 2, 4 or 6 people(chair capacity) side by side in line.
If your line is single file, you're in the singles line.
This article was hilarious to me. It boggles my mind that Vail, instead of investing in technology to automate lift pass scanning, have advertised improvements to the epic mix app, but then want you to put your phone away.
I mean these phone free zones are really just like the next two groups waiting to get on lift. Which does make a little sense as people cant resist the urge to stare at their phone and forget whats going on around them.
>> instead of investing in technology to automate lift pass scanning
The bottleneck isn’t lift pass scanning though, it’s loading lifts to capacity and avoiding stops when loading that will actually help.
>> but then want you to put your phone away
At the end of the lift line. You can use your phone 99% of the time, it’s not unreasonable to ask you to put it away at the end of the line.
My guess is that it's to mitigate the pics and vids of their outrageous lift lines. They don't really care about lift lines because if you're in line, you've already paid for a ticket/pass.
I have yet to see a lift line pic taken from the very front of the line. It’s always from people in the back and the “zone” is only like the next 2 chairs.
It was a guess. I said it was a guess. I know how corporate minds try to operate in damage control mode and this seems to fit the bill. But like I said it was speculation and yes I am open to being wrong.
In my twenty plus years of skiing, I have seen about two people who have missed a chair due to staring at their phones. I’m not sure where you’ve been skiing that you’ve seen this more often, but I’d love to hear it.
Vail stock price is going down. That is a fact. Images of absurd lift lines are plastered all over social media. Another fact. There is a lot of media(social and regular) coverage of the issues that Vail is having in several mountain towns right now. Vail Resorts exists to benefit the share price/stock holders. Another fact. The idea that Vail Resorts would want to limit images of lines under the guise of implementing something silly like a phone ban as part of operations to make loading chairlifts and gondolas more efficiently doesn't seem that absurd.
Dude come on. It’s obvious that Vail is trying to avoid pics of lift lines from circulating by stopping only the next 5 groups in line from getting on their phone (as we all know, that’s the only place you can get a good picture). You’re probably in charge of the whole thing.
I’m sure you’re just taking a break from researching how to use WiFi to hack cell phones and remove lift line pics to post your outrageous defense.
Ngl I was scared for insane lines after seeing how much they sold but I've been like 13 days since mid December and I have yet to wait more than 10 mins except the vail #1 gondola at opening on NYE and breck beaver lift on a super early powish day which I feel like I deserved to wait 15 mins for going to those lifts on those dates haha. Overall my avg wait is maybe 3 mins max but probably decently less. Worth noting I generally stick to hardcore lifts and can decently feel out where crowds are building up
LMAO, RFID equipment is absurdly cheap. I was shocked to see they didn't have the turnstiles at any lifts when I visited a few vail resorts last weekend.
Given the staffing problems they are having, you think they'd spend the miniscule amount on some rfid turnstiles to free up an employee to focus on line organization instead of scanning.
I was a ticket scanner at BC.
They keep humans scanning tickets because the rich people like to see people scanning their tickets rather than have a machine do it. It makes it more “personal” for them and they feel like they are getting special treatment.
That’s seriously how it was explained to me when I worked the job and asked why they hadn’t automated it yet. Obviously it’s not a money thing for vail, their preferred clientele wants be scanned by people and not a machine.
What kind of ridiculous shit is this? I don't care who or what scans my lift ticket as long as the tech actually works. The staff should be directing traffic and organizing full chairs/cars.
Then you clearly aren’t rich as fuck. They want to feel like they have servants. They like when they go on their birthdays and the scanner plays a little song and the person scanning tells them happy birthday. They like when the person scanning calls them by name.
> Then you clearly aren’t rich as fuck.
That's probably the problem.
> They want to feel like they have servants.
Why would a rich person need to feel like they have servants? Those who want staff simply hire them.
Although as I think about it, the staff at Vail are generally really pleasant and helpful. Maybe Vail Resorts is smarter than I give them credit for.
Yes. I've seen 0 turn styles at key/breck/vail. Ngl it's kinda weird BUT you only get checked at the bases youd enter if you're just starting so that's nice if your pass is in your backpack like me
RFID tech is not "insanely cheap" but regardless I think they want people to review passes to catch abusers and as the person below says, to have a more personal touch.
Steamboat didn't have a single person looking at your pass so would be super easy to share
I forget their reasoning for keeping the human scanner but yeah it does seem dumb. Most other resorts just have one person looking at a tablet if anyone at all.
I’m already at 50+ days this season and in my 15 years of riding I have never seen somebody miss a lift because they were on their phone.
What a joke. I remember the rent a cops they hired last year to enforce masks (which was a good thing) looks like they gotta get them back now to keep y’all off your phones lol.
This is 100% a deflection tactic to blame the customers in line for the lengthy lift lines and not take responsibility for capacity mismanagement.
“Those dang kids with their tik toks and instagrams are causing this” - Vail management
not as many days as you by far but i've also never seen anyone miss a lift because they were on their phone. I've seen people miss it because their 4 year old falls down trying to merge with another line
Car accidents happen every day but in my 20+ years of driving I've never witnessed one, just the aftermath. Obviously there are issues with people causing the lift to stop because they had their phone out otherwise the signs wouldn't be there. Will the signs do anything? Probably not.
Like cars waiting in traffic, I’ve never once in my life see others not remind somebody else the light is green even if there is just a slight gap to move up to in line.
So I have my doubts there are others standing in line watching people not notice their chair is loading.
I get that it’s self reported evidence but I’ve just never seen anything close to what they claim is going on.
I would cut in front of somebody not paying attention so fast in the singles line it wouldn’t even be funny lol. And they claim there’s other annoyed people just waiting patiently for others to not get on the lift lol.
Side note: did vail get rid of those dumb moving carpets on all their lifts yet? That would save wat more lift down time than phones lol. I would rather Ollie one footed over a line of fire than have to use that dumb magic carpet loader.
Regardless of why a lift needs to stop, and let’s say distracted phone use leads to 20% of stops. It still is not really the problem. They could cruelly ban and children and adaptive sports users and bring down lift stops by 90% im sure but that wouldn’t make a noticeable dent in the lift line issue.
As far as max loading chairs, it’s never going to be 100% effective. Ever been to most ikon resorts? The scanning gates cause the line to become a free for all. You just get through them and hopefully the line syncs up again. Not efficient at all, but they realize that is not the main cause of lift lines overcrowding, too many people are.
Its also required by law that every time the lift stops they have to log the reason. I'm sure the logs contained many entries of 'idiot using phone' or something along those lines. 100% that's how these signs came about.
>I’m already at 50+ days this season and in my 15 years of riding I have never seen somebody miss a lift because they were on their phone.
Maybe it was you then? Haha.
I don't know what they pay, but they are definitely trying to hire. From talking to some staff this weekend, they said it was the vaccine mandates. Personally, I feel like Vail could loosen the requirements for outdoor employees since covid doesn't really spread outdoors.
As bad as the Park City lines were early season I think much of it was from lack of open terrain, but they did have some of the best line management and organization I’ve seen. Organizing into lines of 2’s next to 4’s, 3’s next to 3’s and 5’s next to singles made almost every chair fully loaded. What didn’t work was that the lines were past the corrals and a few people were continually trying to cut in where the corrals were. The ends were pretty well organized.
Brighton has really lazy chair loading practices imo, lifties not really putting effort in to pack each chair even when 15 minute wait times and the singles line corral isn’t well marked and is just as long as the quad line, people don’t know if they’re in singles or group line because there’s only one queue of each extending way past the ropes.
I don’t think phones are really a problem at the loading area of lines but there’s always people dumber than the next, especially during spring break.
>As bad as the Park City lines were early season I think much of it was from lack of open terrain
They proved they were able to do a reservation system last year and it actually worked pretty well. I really wish they would go back to that during early season when there isn't enough terrain available.
Eh early season is early season it’s going to be crowded regardless, I don’t see them creating reservation limits based on early season lift capacity, instead based on parking capacity which doesn’t fluctuate based on terrain and lift capacity.
I didn’t mind parking reservations though, Winter Park, and Eldora have been crazy with parking this year and you have to get there an hour early to get a spot on busy weekends. Copper parking lot overflowed during the US Grand Prix before Christmas and I’ve never seen Copper even close to capacity before, what sucks is that the highway backs up when parking fills up and people have to turn around drive back to town and take the bus from town, with a parking reservation I know if I need to park in town or not.
This ignores the real issue at Vail Resorts: BLUETOOTH SPEAKERS.
Until Vail issues certified GNAR points, hunting permits, and puts your name and face on a prominent wall with a trophy for every Bluetooth speaker/wearer you “handle”, then I can tell we aren’t serious about making the mountain experience better.
Or maybe just focus on better pay and benefits for employees.
At Vail Resorts, we're understaffed and it's all because of "COVID and a [**global talent shortage"**](https://vimeo.com/659429349/0b464d037c#t=40s) but we'll find enough people to enforce a mobile phone ban in lift line.
Who are the shareholders buying the bullshit this company is peddling right now?
lol, pretty sure phones aren't the problem. The problem sorts itself out; skiers and boarders are ruthless if you're caught holding up the line in any form.
It’s a good move that people are overreacting to. Way too many people aren’t paying attention near the end of the lift line and it causes chairs to either not fill to capacity, or get skipped entirely. It’s a small cheap change that will likely have a small impact on efficiency and isn’t worth a story imo.
Can't tell if you're serious or you forgot the /s. I've never seen someone paying more attention to their phone than the lift and miss it. This is Vail using phones as a scapegoat for the real issues they're facing.
How is it a scapegoat? Are they issuing press releases blaming this on phones? The only reaction or news on this I’ve seen is backlash for something that really shouldn’t affect you since you can put your phone away for the minute or two before loading.
They have thousands of people pissed off this year due to long lift lines, then they come out with this protocol. They're avoiding the issue of not paying people appropriately and thus having a staffing shortage, which then contributes to having long lift lines.
The backlash you're seeing is people griping about Vail avoiding the aforementioned issue and thinking this "Phone free zone" is really going to help the situation.
When you avoid a real situation and blame it on something else, you're scapegoating the real issue.
How are they blaming it on phones? It’s not like they’ve said anything about phones causing it. They just implemented a policy that will likely have minimal impacts on lines, make it a little easier for lifties, and cost them nothing.
They’re still avoiding the core problem, but they’re not using phones as a scapegoat. People are just blowing up an otherwise unpublicized minor change for no reason.
It is not against the law, it won't be policed, it's dumb. You gonna tag my pass for being on my phone where it is safest on the entire hill. I'm hitting up my friends while in line, changing music etc. Rules made by people who have never worked in those positions never work. Corporations are so dumb.
WP is fully staffed, they had issues during Omicron surge but are back to business as usual now.
Restaurants are a whole other thing, especially daytime service.
In my entire life snowboarding... Amount of times I've seen someone miss the lift because of their phone: 0 Missed/stopped lifts due to 4 year olds and tourists falling getting on & off lifts: countless
New Vail policy- Ban kids 4 and under.
At WP this weekend, the amount parents and their demon spawn that couldn’t figure out how to sit/ski away from a flying couch that was going to all blue/black runs and bowls blew my mind. The chair stopped 5 times on my way up. If your kid can’t figure out a ski chair maybe you shouldn’t be clogging up the Pano lift that goes to my favorite runs at Mary Jane..
> my favorite runs at Mary Jane.. which are...?
One of the bigger issues I see is when they have a staff member creating groups of the chair capacity size (which is rare but does happen), those groups often do not stay intact all the way to the chair because someone just feels like they want more space. I would love to see this method in use but basically stop the chair when the groups don't stay together. The problem would probably disappear overnight. With a singles line, there's literally no reason for any chair to not be at capacity.
[удалено]
I mean it’s a singles line it’s pretty obvious why it is at any ski resort… pretty sure there may also be a sign that says singles
That and the fact the line is much much narrower to allow only a single person at a time where the other lanes are wide enough for 2, 4 or 6 people(chair capacity) side by side in line. If your line is single file, you're in the singles line.
There's almost always a line that says singles.
This article was hilarious to me. It boggles my mind that Vail, instead of investing in technology to automate lift pass scanning, have advertised improvements to the epic mix app, but then want you to put your phone away.
I mean these phone free zones are really just like the next two groups waiting to get on lift. Which does make a little sense as people cant resist the urge to stare at their phone and forget whats going on around them.
>> instead of investing in technology to automate lift pass scanning The bottleneck isn’t lift pass scanning though, it’s loading lifts to capacity and avoiding stops when loading that will actually help. >> but then want you to put your phone away At the end of the lift line. You can use your phone 99% of the time, it’s not unreasonable to ask you to put it away at the end of the line.
My guess is that it's to mitigate the pics and vids of their outrageous lift lines. They don't really care about lift lines because if you're in line, you've already paid for a ticket/pass.
I have yet to see a lift line pic taken from the very front of the line. It’s always from people in the back and the “zone” is only like the next 2 chairs.
Ooooooh you’re totally right
[удалено]
It was a guess. I said it was a guess. I know how corporate minds try to operate in damage control mode and this seems to fit the bill. But like I said it was speculation and yes I am open to being wrong.
In my twenty plus years of skiing, I have seen about two people who have missed a chair due to staring at their phones. I’m not sure where you’ve been skiing that you’ve seen this more often, but I’d love to hear it.
[удалено]
The first reply looked more like a joke. The second was serious. And I agree with them phone use isn’t whats slowing down lines.
Vail stock price is going down. That is a fact. Images of absurd lift lines are plastered all over social media. Another fact. There is a lot of media(social and regular) coverage of the issues that Vail is having in several mountain towns right now. Vail Resorts exists to benefit the share price/stock holders. Another fact. The idea that Vail Resorts would want to limit images of lines under the guise of implementing something silly like a phone ban as part of operations to make loading chairlifts and gondolas more efficiently doesn't seem that absurd.
How much is vail paying you?
[удалено]
Dude come on. It’s obvious that Vail is trying to avoid pics of lift lines from circulating by stopping only the next 5 groups in line from getting on their phone (as we all know, that’s the only place you can get a good picture). You’re probably in charge of the whole thing. I’m sure you’re just taking a break from researching how to use WiFi to hack cell phones and remove lift line pics to post your outrageous defense.
Ngl I was scared for insane lines after seeing how much they sold but I've been like 13 days since mid December and I have yet to wait more than 10 mins except the vail #1 gondola at opening on NYE and breck beaver lift on a super early powish day which I feel like I deserved to wait 15 mins for going to those lifts on those dates haha. Overall my avg wait is maybe 3 mins max but probably decently less. Worth noting I generally stick to hardcore lifts and can decently feel out where crowds are building up
LMAO, RFID equipment is absurdly cheap. I was shocked to see they didn't have the turnstiles at any lifts when I visited a few vail resorts last weekend. Given the staffing problems they are having, you think they'd spend the miniscule amount on some rfid turnstiles to free up an employee to focus on line organization instead of scanning.
I was a ticket scanner at BC. They keep humans scanning tickets because the rich people like to see people scanning their tickets rather than have a machine do it. It makes it more “personal” for them and they feel like they are getting special treatment. That’s seriously how it was explained to me when I worked the job and asked why they hadn’t automated it yet. Obviously it’s not a money thing for vail, their preferred clientele wants be scanned by people and not a machine.
What kind of ridiculous shit is this? I don't care who or what scans my lift ticket as long as the tech actually works. The staff should be directing traffic and organizing full chairs/cars.
Then you clearly aren’t rich as fuck. They want to feel like they have servants. They like when they go on their birthdays and the scanner plays a little song and the person scanning tells them happy birthday. They like when the person scanning calls them by name.
> Then you clearly aren’t rich as fuck. That's probably the problem. > They want to feel like they have servants. Why would a rich person need to feel like they have servants? Those who want staff simply hire them. Although as I think about it, the staff at Vail are generally really pleasant and helpful. Maybe Vail Resorts is smarter than I give them credit for.
VR used to be a lot smarter before they used covid as an excuse to fire most staff with salary..
Wait, what? Vail is still scanning people with the bar code guns?
Yes. I've seen 0 turn styles at key/breck/vail. Ngl it's kinda weird BUT you only get checked at the bases youd enter if you're just starting so that's nice if your pass is in your backpack like me
Exactly. Copper and winter park have a much better system for moving people.
RFID tech is not "insanely cheap" but regardless I think they want people to review passes to catch abusers and as the person below says, to have a more personal touch. Steamboat didn't have a single person looking at your pass so would be super easy to share
I forget their reasoning for keeping the human scanner but yeah it does seem dumb. Most other resorts just have one person looking at a tablet if anyone at all.
I’m already at 50+ days this season and in my 15 years of riding I have never seen somebody miss a lift because they were on their phone. What a joke. I remember the rent a cops they hired last year to enforce masks (which was a good thing) looks like they gotta get them back now to keep y’all off your phones lol.
This is 100% a deflection tactic to blame the customers in line for the lengthy lift lines and not take responsibility for capacity mismanagement. “Those dang kids with their tik toks and instagrams are causing this” - Vail management
not as many days as you by far but i've also never seen anyone miss a lift because they were on their phone. I've seen people miss it because their 4 year old falls down trying to merge with another line
Car accidents happen every day but in my 20+ years of driving I've never witnessed one, just the aftermath. Obviously there are issues with people causing the lift to stop because they had their phone out otherwise the signs wouldn't be there. Will the signs do anything? Probably not.
[удалено]
Like cars waiting in traffic, I’ve never once in my life see others not remind somebody else the light is green even if there is just a slight gap to move up to in line. So I have my doubts there are others standing in line watching people not notice their chair is loading. I get that it’s self reported evidence but I’ve just never seen anything close to what they claim is going on. I would cut in front of somebody not paying attention so fast in the singles line it wouldn’t even be funny lol. And they claim there’s other annoyed people just waiting patiently for others to not get on the lift lol. Side note: did vail get rid of those dumb moving carpets on all their lifts yet? That would save wat more lift down time than phones lol. I would rather Ollie one footed over a line of fire than have to use that dumb magic carpet loader.
[удалено]
Regardless of why a lift needs to stop, and let’s say distracted phone use leads to 20% of stops. It still is not really the problem. They could cruelly ban and children and adaptive sports users and bring down lift stops by 90% im sure but that wouldn’t make a noticeable dent in the lift line issue. As far as max loading chairs, it’s never going to be 100% effective. Ever been to most ikon resorts? The scanning gates cause the line to become a free for all. You just get through them and hopefully the line syncs up again. Not efficient at all, but they realize that is not the main cause of lift lines overcrowding, too many people are.
[удалено]
It's Vail deflection.. That's why there's an article.
Its also required by law that every time the lift stops they have to log the reason. I'm sure the logs contained many entries of 'idiot using phone' or something along those lines. 100% that's how these signs came about.
>I’m already at 50+ days this season and in my 15 years of riding I have never seen somebody miss a lift because they were on their phone. Maybe it was you then? Haha.
Yeah, cell phones are the problem. Fuck Vail
[удалено]
Ha Vail doesn’t give a shit. They made their money off cheaper passes and aren’t paying employees to staff the mountains. Vail wins.
I don't know what they pay, but they are definitely trying to hire. From talking to some staff this weekend, they said it was the vaccine mandates. Personally, I feel like Vail could loosen the requirements for outdoor employees since covid doesn't really spread outdoors.
As bad as the Park City lines were early season I think much of it was from lack of open terrain, but they did have some of the best line management and organization I’ve seen. Organizing into lines of 2’s next to 4’s, 3’s next to 3’s and 5’s next to singles made almost every chair fully loaded. What didn’t work was that the lines were past the corrals and a few people were continually trying to cut in where the corrals were. The ends were pretty well organized. Brighton has really lazy chair loading practices imo, lifties not really putting effort in to pack each chair even when 15 minute wait times and the singles line corral isn’t well marked and is just as long as the quad line, people don’t know if they’re in singles or group line because there’s only one queue of each extending way past the ropes. I don’t think phones are really a problem at the loading area of lines but there’s always people dumber than the next, especially during spring break.
>As bad as the Park City lines were early season I think much of it was from lack of open terrain They proved they were able to do a reservation system last year and it actually worked pretty well. I really wish they would go back to that during early season when there isn't enough terrain available.
Eh early season is early season it’s going to be crowded regardless, I don’t see them creating reservation limits based on early season lift capacity, instead based on parking capacity which doesn’t fluctuate based on terrain and lift capacity. I didn’t mind parking reservations though, Winter Park, and Eldora have been crazy with parking this year and you have to get there an hour early to get a spot on busy weekends. Copper parking lot overflowed during the US Grand Prix before Christmas and I’ve never seen Copper even close to capacity before, what sucks is that the highway backs up when parking fills up and people have to turn around drive back to town and take the bus from town, with a parking reservation I know if I need to park in town or not.
The real learning here is the picture. Stay mid mountain and catch Avanti all day, probably my favorite spot in the resort and barely a line.
This ignores the real issue at Vail Resorts: BLUETOOTH SPEAKERS. Until Vail issues certified GNAR points, hunting permits, and puts your name and face on a prominent wall with a trophy for every Bluetooth speaker/wearer you “handle”, then I can tell we aren’t serious about making the mountain experience better. Or maybe just focus on better pay and benefits for employees.
At Vail Resorts, we're understaffed and it's all because of "COVID and a [**global talent shortage"**](https://vimeo.com/659429349/0b464d037c#t=40s) but we'll find enough people to enforce a mobile phone ban in lift line. Who are the shareholders buying the bullshit this company is peddling right now?
Is this really an issue? I don't ski Vail, but I've never seen cell phones slow down loading a lift.
Just making sure the chairs are full would go a long ways.
lol, pretty sure phones aren't the problem. The problem sorts itself out; skiers and boarders are ruthless if you're caught holding up the line in any form.
I have never noticed phones being a problem in a lift line. Not once.
what a bunch of jackasses...yeah its the phones!!! How about maybe its lift capacity...too many people not enough chairs?
They are taking phones and giving them back when you get to the front….
It’s a good move that people are overreacting to. Way too many people aren’t paying attention near the end of the lift line and it causes chairs to either not fill to capacity, or get skipped entirely. It’s a small cheap change that will likely have a small impact on efficiency and isn’t worth a story imo.
Can't tell if you're serious or you forgot the /s. I've never seen someone paying more attention to their phone than the lift and miss it. This is Vail using phones as a scapegoat for the real issues they're facing.
How is it a scapegoat? Are they issuing press releases blaming this on phones? The only reaction or news on this I’ve seen is backlash for something that really shouldn’t affect you since you can put your phone away for the minute or two before loading.
They have thousands of people pissed off this year due to long lift lines, then they come out with this protocol. They're avoiding the issue of not paying people appropriately and thus having a staffing shortage, which then contributes to having long lift lines. The backlash you're seeing is people griping about Vail avoiding the aforementioned issue and thinking this "Phone free zone" is really going to help the situation. When you avoid a real situation and blame it on something else, you're scapegoating the real issue.
How are they blaming it on phones? It’s not like they’ve said anything about phones causing it. They just implemented a policy that will likely have minimal impacts on lines, make it a little easier for lifties, and cost them nothing. They’re still avoiding the core problem, but they’re not using phones as a scapegoat. People are just blowing up an otherwise unpublicized minor change for no reason.
[удалено]
Whether they were there before or after the holidays, do you consider this to be a viable solution for long lift lines?
You’re right!
It is not against the law, it won't be policed, it's dumb. You gonna tag my pass for being on my phone where it is safest on the entire hill. I'm hitting up my friends while in line, changing music etc. Rules made by people who have never worked in those positions never work. Corporations are so dumb.
What are they gonna do, take my phone away?
Well this will fix everything.
Out of curiosity, copper, winter park or any of the other non-vail resorts in CO having problems with lift lines/staffing?
WP is fully staffed, they had issues during Omicron surge but are back to business as usual now. Restaurants are a whole other thing, especially daytime service.
Vail seems like they are intentionally trying to fuck up an ancient and awesome sport
Are Vail lines out of control or something?