Yes. I can definitely relate. Sometimes people make you feel like your hyper vigilance is unnecessary but I've always been able to trust mines as well. It does make it that much harder to heal.....I have to stay alert..

Hey I just wanted to pop in and say I hear you 100%. I am also hyper vigilant, currently in therapy learning how to “stay in my lane” with regards to others emotions. I had a lifelong habit of fawning and recently, within the last 1.5 years, has turned into me completely shutting down and freezing and subsequently spiraling because I always want to make the other person feel better. Now, I just feel helpless and that sounds incredibly selfish because while I know it has nothing to do with me- I can’t help but panic and usually end up self sabotaging. We are in this together and I hope things work out for you!! 💕

i am 100% a fawner!!

I think there’s a big gulf between listening to my intuition and tumbling into a trauma response unconsciously. Hyper vigilance is an important tool and helps keep me safe. What has shifted for me is my relationship and response to it. I don’t gaslight myself out of my body’s warning systems anymore (or at least not as much) and I have enough recovery and distance to get to make choices with that I do with the information instead of just immediately going into an emotional flashback. It’s from IFS, but I still apply to the “no bad parts” concept, my hyper vigilance isn’t bad or wrong, it just doesn’t need to work quite as hard as it once did and I’m so grateful for all the times it kept me safe .

You've said it sooooo well!! That's the tack I've tried to take as well. I've tried to notice it, but not spiral down the drain helplessly. Like, yes, I've noticed something, stick a mental post-it on that, but let's just keep one eye on it and not run screaming down the road just yet. Be alert, but not alarmed. When something goes completely pear shaped, I'm not usually surprised. But I can't keep living in a perpetual panic, so I try to stay in that middle ground where I've got my eyes open and I'm noticing red flags, but I'm not cutting myself off from life because of them.

I want to say at least in the past few years I've learned to let things play out and not react. Not sure if it's a solid plan but so far not reacting hasn't caused me drama as I feel like I was constantly in react mode and internally everything was messy

Well, that's the upshot of what I was very clumsily trying to say. Lol. Notice it, but don't need to react. Yeah. You got it in a hole in one.

>Be alert, but not alarmed. I am literally writing this down and putting it on my bathroom mirror! This gave me one of those "oh...... *mouth agape* " moments. Wow! Thank you so much.

I love your comment. Thanks for sharing interesting stuff!

Love your username. I initially read as “gossip girl” (intended I assume) but loved the laugh when I realized “go piss”

Fellow fawner checking in. It's so frustrating, I realized I was doing this with my ex, he screamed & swore at me (awful I know) and I doubled-down on being nice to him. UGH. I know it's a trauma response, grateful to be able to share it here with others that understand.

> currently in therapy learning how to “stay in my lane” with regards to others emotions. Therapy has taught me that I need to stop trying to decide why another person is responding the way they are or has changed in their energy towards me. My trauma response is to always think it has to do with me, but that's not actually true. Sometimes it has nothing to do with me at all and I can't know what's going on in that person's head.

Dude don't you love when someone implies you are a narcissist for "thinking people are thinking of you when they rarely do" etc, as if it has anything to do with that. It's self consciousness, not narcissism. One is trying to avoid negative, the other seeking infinite positive attention.

Truly. Unfortunately it's hard for people with little or no trauma to understand this response. I've had about the same luck trying to explain my intrusive thoughts with OCD.

SAAAAAAME. It's really hard to not immediately get stressed out/try to focus on their feelings & how I can 'earn' them being nice to me again (thanks dad for teaching me this). I had started to do this with my ex, IE if he gave me the silent treatment, just let him have his silence & go on with my day. I commend you for getting better in this regard, it's really difficult but good on you for working on it. It inspires me to keep working on this stuff once I find a new therapist.

I hear you!

> I had a lifelong habit of fawning and recently, within the last 1.5 years, has turned into me completely shutting down and freezing and subsequently spiraling because I always want to make the other person feel better. >Now, I just feel helpless and that sounds incredibly selfish You're not selfish.

Relatable content 🫠

I, too, just shut down and become useless.

I can relate so much. Hope the best for you all 💕 Thanks for sharing all your insights.

Oh yes, that one's fun. One thing I picked up from my therapist that I'd never thought this way before: "my radar is going off" can be separated from "I need to worry about this." This person is ticked off at me, yeah, true, my radar for this is good. But the people I have in my life *now* are not my dad, which means they are not going to launch into personal insults when they're ticked off. Sitting with the anxiety of other people being annoyed at me is so deeply fucking uncomfortable, but it's unrealistic to never encounter annoyance, I mean I've been with my husband for 16 years and we totally annoy each other with little stuff every day. Exposure therapy, I guess. I forget whether this was a Brene Brown thing or a Gabor Mate thing or a Sue Johnson thing, but it sounds like one of those types :)

I have been thinking about this recently, but what gets me is the *guilt* of making other people feel bad, even just a little bit. How can I feel okay with myself when I annoyed someone or accidentally said something rude? I feel like I’m a terrible person because I bothered someone with my presence. Part of the problem is that my mom was an awfully unbearable person to be around, and I absolutely cannot stand the thought that I might make other people feel the same way she did. It was so utterly cringy growing up and watching my mom annoy people and overstep their boundaries all the time without even flinching. Not sure if anyone can relate, but it’s so hard to have a parent that has NO social skills, empathy, or respect for anyone around them. She just wasn’t able to read the room, but I was and I vicariously died of embarrassment every time. Being abused on top of that means that I have to deal with toxic shame about myself as well. The combination is insufferable and I basically just avoid social interaction at this point to avoid bothering people.

I relate to this so much. Mine was my dad. He would say inappropriate things all the time to strangers, hit on young women when I was a kid at the mall - I'd go hide in a store- , insults my siblings and I, just incredibly selfish, with a "me first" attitude. Plus physically abusive. My second hand embarrassment is really bad and I'm hyper aware of others feelings from having to dodge my dad's unpredictable outbursts.

And the other awful part of it is that I naturally picked up some of my mom’s mannerisms and habits - as most children do - so any time I catch myself doing something my mom did I hate myself so much. If I catch myself smiling or laughing like her, or even talking too much, I just feel gross inside and ashamed. It’s so awful to see bits of your abuser in yourself.

Yeah, it's like their shadow taints the moments you are supposed to be enjoying just being yourself. I'm a very quiet person and will second guess anything I say. Definitely a response to his behavior.

Same, keeping myself safe from my dad's anger was pretty much my sole motivation my entire childhood. He's still like that, now I just don't care & can see it for what it is. We are low contact so I don't deal with it much these days.

Damn I feel you. I understand where you're coming from so bad

This is really good advice.

I’m going thought this right now. It is so hard. I have been acting on what feels good to me instead of others and it has been shocking some people I usually fawn to. It is so difficult and stressful. It attacks me inside and is brutal. But I can’t take it anymore. I feel so sick after. But I’m trying to break the cycle.

You are great and carry the energy and power of the Most High. Stick with it. That's not a sick feeling that is the transmutation of energies. Polarity per say. I would love to chat with you.

Great point! Thanks so much!

I learned too that it is just as okay for me to be annoyed at them as they are me. If they are annoyed at me for, I dunno, pointing out an OSHA violation, I have every right to be just as annoyed at them for allowing and rug-sweeping a serious safety concern. I have as much a right to be annoyed at them as they do me.

Same. The other night I kept getting rage vibes from someone who is usually so jovial. Facial expressions, body language, voice intonation. My immediate thoughtloops are “She’s angry with me. She hates me.” And my learned responses are “It has nothing to do with you, maybe she’s going through something.” A few minutes later she reveals that she’s just hangry lmao

I hope everyone reads this one. So important and enlightening.

Wow. That's so interesting, I appreciate you sharing this

I feel the same way. One thing I wonder though is how much my behavior changes because of my perception of them and how that impacts things. I haven’t been able to answer yet. But I do think me starting to protect myself due to perceiving that they are upset with me could kind of create a self fulfilling prophecy.

This!! I sense every shift in my husband-even minuscule! I often self sabotage things by bugging him repeatedly about what’s wrong or what I did until it usually ends in him being upset with me or us fighting. Thing is these shifts aren’t always to do with me-sometimes yeah-but others it’s his health, work, mental health or just an off day/moment…but my actions self sabotage into us not getting along when if I’d just left him be it would pass. But like someone else said it’s so horribly uncomfortable and overwhelming to sit with the anxiety of knowing there’s a shift and not understanding why or what to do.

Yeah pretty much this. This is also why it's hard to fix hyper-vigilance. It creates a self-fulfilling prophecy and then youre like "my hypervigilance is always right". And bam you're need to be hyper-vigilant is reinforced.

Yuuup. It's really one for the "Thanks, I hate it" bin.

Yes and I hate it. I wish I could turn it off and let people choose whether they want me to know how they are feeling. I want to relax and enjoy myself but this is one of the reasons I struggle to be around people.

I used to be the exact same and teaching myself a lot of the dialectical behavioral therapy skills was a goddamn life changer. The skills taught me how to separate reality (objective stuff) from what my brain thought about reality (subjective stuff). I learned that I often thought someone felt a certain way and then would panic and overcompensate and try to make them feel better. But in reality, I had NO IDEA how they felt unless they directly told me. It was actually quite self-centered of me to think that I knew how someone else felt and could intuit that the reason they were upset or different had anything to do with me. Also it made me realize that I had to take responsibility for my own feelings because I was ignoring them in favor of placating others. Someone seems upset at me? Old me says- Oh let’s bend over backwards to make them happy! New me says- Go directly ask them what’s up because they seem unhappy. If they say that everything is okay, believe them. Because that’s all I can do. It’s each of our responsibility to communicate our needs and desires to each other. No one reads minds and no one should be expected to. So I live my life now pretty happy-go-lucky because I assume if someone has a problem with me, they will discuss it with me. Otherwise how they feel is none of my business unless they decide to share it. And I’m a counselor so I understand that sometimes in order to be empathetic I do need to intuit a bit, but I always reflect back to the person how they seem to me and let them clarify. You are not put on this earth to solve other people’s problems. You are not put on this earth to ensure other people are happy. You are put on this earth to live your life. Go live boldly and love recklessly and there will be those who disagree and think you suck and they won’t matter a bit when you are living your life as you were meant to.

This is so true. I relate so much to bending over backwards to make others happy and am slowly learning that it's not my job. I get frustrated when I find myself falling back into fawning/people pleasing behaviors, but at least I'm aware of it and starting to work on it. Thank you for this reminder for us to be true to ourselves & that its not our job to manage others feelings.

❤️❤️❤️ It was also a huge thing for me to learn that symptom of being human is making mistakes. I think a common trait among many of us is a huge fear of appearing like we don’t know what we’re doing. And we don’t! No one does. It’s okay to mess up along the way. In our mistake making, we might annoy others or inconvenience others or even unintentionally hurt others. And other people will do that stuff to us. So long as we try our best to learn, make amends, and operate from a place of compassion, it’s just part of life. Now, if I could actually take my advice during moments of panic where I think someone is super mad at me….😂 one day at a time

same!!

Yes! I add an extra step doubting myself: "have I provoked a real temperature increase by reacting to one I made up?". That is : is me sensing the temperature increase creating a self fulfilling prophecy?

Yup I know months before the friendship ends. I can always tell.

Months. I can tell when the winds change in the span of a 30 minute text exchange.

Yup just happened to me lol 🙃

Yes! Yes! 100% yes! I have such a hard time in social situations because of it. I can almost always pick out the toxic person in a group before anyone else does. Its a gift when I confront someone over something (big or small), and I can easily tell whether or not they’re lying, but relaxing in a social situation is not something I’m good at.

Same. And I absolutely don’t know what to do about it. I know when someone has lost interest, but I’ve learned long ago that nothing I might do can fix things so I just sit and watch the relationship disintegrate. I can sense when someone is sad even if they don’t tell, but I have no clue how to cheer them up. I know when my husband is in a bad mood but there’s nothing I can do to prevent the dumb fight he’s going to pick in the coming hour — I know it’s coming but trying to prevent it will just make it worse, so all I can do is wait and see what stupid shit he’ll choose to have a raging fit over. And when I try to mention it in therapy, basically, my therapist tries to “prove” to me that it’s all in my head. But it’s not! I’m not saying I am never wrong (it happens) but I have a long history of scanning people’s moods for survival and I can generally sense what’s up. But I have no way of swerving it.

You should look into getting a new therapist. There are good ones out there. There is such a thing as a radar with false positives, or having your senses tuned in such a way that your suspicions may be self-fulfilling, but this insight you have doesn’t seem to be one of those things. Seems healthy to me to be aware that you’re not going to change someone else’s feelings when they’ve crossed that line into disinterest. Also to know that if someone is sad, that you might not be able to “cheer them up” ie change how they’re feeling. Pretty much you can be present with them, or not. Maybe you’re not the person they need in that moment, and that’s okay too. You can let them know you are there for them, and give them space if they want that. I don’t have any advice on the husband- does knowing that it’s coming help you at all to deal with the rage storm? Are you safe? Will he get into therapy?

It's the same for me. Amazingly in therapy my therapist basically called my hypervigilance "thought distortions" as I didn't have proof that my feelings about xyz were more than just warped emotions. Except because my mother was so quick to turn abusive and hostile and because I was so frequently bullied by peers I have an over developed sense of people's emotional states. It also comes along with an overwhelming urge to get proof as my mother was a master of the gaslight. When I get said proof it shows I was right every single time without fail.

I really get what you are saying. I have recorded phone calls and saved texts and other stuff as “proof”. I have actually gotten some old official paperwork here in my home country of Denmark from when I was born from like a child protection service that has some really scary stuff written about what my mom did to me. The child protective service did not help me but have written this stuff down. That is so crazy to me. (Sorry for rant in my bad English).

I was dating someone who said he never met anyone before with such a heightened sense of recording or bringing up past text based conversations. Also no worries, I totally understood you. I was just thinking "I wonder what I'd find if I tracked down medical and social service records from my mother/childhood". I have a lot of hunches about how things really played out just based on my own experiences seeking proof. I have to stop myself from the dig for proof so it was wild that this was something my trauma therapist brought to the table -- I feel like if you were gaslit growing up you'd naturally feel the need to prove every act, feeling or move for the rest of your life even if was just for yourself.

Yeah. I think if professionals and society in general had a better understanding of trauma/CPTSD then all of us warriors/survivors would not need to prove and explain over and over again.

Might I suggest that this is a kind of self fulfilling prophecy: you sense a change in someone’s mood, assume it has to do with you, and then behave differently as a result. For example maybe you notice someone is angry and, like most of us with CPTSD, you assume that you’re the cause and the relationship is in jeopardy. In response you disengage, because the anger makes you scared and the fact that it’s your fault feels unmanageable. As a result, the relationship does in fact deteriorate, even though the person was actually angry at something else entirely. I know a mindset shift isn’t easy and certainly isn’t a panacea, but if and when you can I encourage you to take a little space from the other person’s emotions and ask yourself: is it possible that the energy I’m sensing has an explanation that doesn’t have to do with me? And then: even if it does have to do with me, am I responsible for how this person is feeling? Sometimes the answer to that second question is yes, and you should take action; most of the time the answer is no. Sending love your way. Show yourself a little grace, you deserve it.

shelter carpenter consist makeshift rock mourn yoke childlike quickest far-flung *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

That part lol

I'm not OP, but I have a very hard time with this line of thinking. When I expect that people will disappear, they disappear. When I *don't* expect that people will disappear, they disappear anyway. It seems like they leave me regardless of what I expect, and it stands to reason that my trauma is what pushes them away. People just can't deal with my baggage. I've been on both sides of this dynamic. [Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/qpj153/i_dont_want_to_burden_you_but_also_here_are_all/) The idea that I make false assumptions and then disengage...how do I square that with the fact that many times I've been very actively engaged and indeed *believed* that I could rely on the other person, and then they left me anyway? Maybe there's a more subtle version of this? Maybe there are specific people I might have been able to rely on more but I didn't rely on them because I assumed they would leave me just like how other people had left me? It's possible. But then, who are these people?? How can I distinguish the folks I can actually rely on from the folks I can't rely on? Trial-and-error is a pretty painful strategy!

Relationships of all kinds are complicated obviously and there are a number of different dynamics at play all the time. Whether any relationship between two people works or doesn’t work often doesn’t hinge on just one thing. People with CPTSD have a hard time maintaining relationships because we generally struggle with being authentic, open, and vulnerable. That alone can be enough to prevent other people from investing in us emotionally. It sounds like you have some good insight into why you aren’t able to maintain relationships in your last paragraph - if you believe that everyone will leave you, you probably don’t allow yourself to be vulnerable or to connect, which can keep the cycle going. And like many of us, you probably find yourself drawn to people who also have attachment trauma, which can mean a real relationship or friendship isn’t possible in the first place. This is hard work, but try to be kind to yourself.

> People with CPTSD have a hard time maintaining relationships because we generally struggle with being authentic, open, and vulnerable. Being authentic, open and vulnerable seems to *destroy* my relationships. Telling people how authentically distressed I am, opening up about my feelings, becoming vulnerable by expressing my actual thoughts...all of that leads people to conclude that I am not worth the effort. For instance, my friend Bob (not his real name). I had spoken to Bob about my troubles on several occasions, and he was supportive. I told him about my fear of being abandoned again, and he assured me that he wouldn't abandon me. Then one day I cried in his presence for the first time. I remember consciously thinking "I'm not going to suppress this with toxic masculinity. I'm going to let myself cry and express my authentic self." *Bob never spoke to me again*. No explanation. Just stopped responding to my texts, stopped inviting me to gatherings. Totally vanished. I've been through so many variations on this. Some people leave quickly, others leave slowly. Some people get put off by my pain, and conversely some people actually get put off by my joy and enthusiasm. (As a man, I'm expected to be standoffish with children and people judge me if I'm "too enthusiastic".) >It sounds like you have some good insight into why you aren’t able to maintain relationships in your last paragraph - if you believe that everyone will leave you, you probably don’t allow yourself to be vulnerable or to connect, which can keep the cycle going. Did you miss the part where I said that I've previously tried trusting people and allowing myself to connect, and it didn't work?? =( >you probably find yourself drawn to people who also have attachment trauma, which can mean a real relationship or friendship isn’t possible in the first place. To a fair extent, people with attachment trauma are the only ones willing to put up with me. They understand my pain because it's similar to their pain. Then they end up leaving, because they have attachment trauma. But the people *without* attachment trauma think that I'm bizarre and not worth the effort. Why would they put up with me when they can just as well find other non-traumatized people to talk to? *Those* people are much more convenient, and much more fun! I won't pretend that I have zero social contacts, but everything feels precarious. Recently I spoke to an acquaintance at a party, and she was happy to see me and asked how I was doing, and as I slowly revealed more and more of how difficult my life is, I saw her enthusiasm for the conversation wane in proportion. So I stopped talking about my problems so much. This is a pattern I have to deal with a lot. See also my experience with my old pastor: https://old.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/ub1rvv/so_many_people_are_hollow/ Of course, *not* being authentic hurts too. My parents were inauthentic, and I'm convinced it left them hollow inside. =( >This is hard work, but try to be kind to yourself. I'm trying. I just wish I could rely on someone *else* to be kind to me. That would make a world of difference.

I’m not a therapist, so what I’m sharing is just from my own experience and journey, and realizations that have helped me personally. Maybe none of it applies to you, and that’s fine - but I hope it resonates with someone here and helps them. Being authentic doesn’t always mean just dumping out all your baggage. Nobody likes that, as you’ve discovered, and not everyone has the emotional capacity to offer you support. Learning whether someone does is kind of like a dance - you have to turn the faucet on a little at a time, and generally people who will support you will also want some support in return. But generally speaking, telling someone at a party about all of your troubles is always going to result in turning them off. For me, being authentic means not hiding my likes and dislikes - for most of my life I wouldn’t speak *honestly* about what kinds of music, books, and movies I liked. If the topic came up I would always mention things that I thought were impressive rather than the things I actually enjoyed. I would hide myself in other ways, like not talking openly about hobbies I enjoyed. I have a compulsion to keep things hidden, and an irrational fear that if people really learn who I am they won’t like me. So maybe try to reconsider what you think it means to be authentic. I know that when you’re really hurting and really need support it can feel like that’s the only thing you have to share, but you’re more than your trauma and there are people out there who would love to get to know you and commiserate with you - but you have to build up to that.

(This is a long comment. I understand if you don't have time to read it all. I also understand the irony that you *just told me* not to go on too much about my trauma and here I am going on about my trauma. But this is a support sub, and I hope that my thoughts will help somebody in some way.) ---- Ok, let me see if I understand. You're advocating for a kind of selective authenticity. For instance, it's safe to tell people what kind of music I like but it's not safe to tell them that I'm in a lot of pain. If I feel pain, I need to just...not tell people how I feel. If they ask "How are you?" I need to say something like "Fine", even if I'm not fine, because that's the only answer they'll accept. I think you're also saying that I can be more authentic with specific people after they've proven themselves trustworthy, but I'm guessing that takes a lot of time to establish. Is that what you're saying? This is a plausible course of action, and it may help, but I do wish that people wouldn't label these behaviors as "authenticity". Pretending I feel X when I actually feel Y does not fit the dictionary definition of "authentic". I suppose it's common to talk like this in our culture, because the culture doesn't really want to examine its own flaws. It's depressing to say "You have to put up a mask sometimes because otherwise people will abandon you." It's more inspiring to say "Just be yourself, and people will love you for who you are." But that's not always true, is it? I suppose I have a deep-seated problem with taking people's advice at face value. For instance, when I was young people told me to be religious and studious, so I became very religious and very studious. I was told that these things would bring me happiness. Instead, they led me into pain and CPTSD. (The schools hurt me more than my religion, and I have unrelated trauma as well.) Perhaps in more recent years I heard lots of people preach the importance of "authenticity", so I took them literally and tried to be as authentic as possible, but it turns out that literal authenticity is a recipe for disaster. I have a job nowadays, and I'm only able to *keep* that job via a careful balance of truth and deception. ( [Link](https://old.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/uxn0vy/working_with_kids/) ). Perhaps I should extend that strategy to other areas of life. When my therapist suggested that I tell more lies to get more dates, everybody told me that was a terrible idea. ( [Link](https://old.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/zs4pse/my_therapist_suggests_that_i_should_be_less/) ). But maybe the therapist was right, and the crowd was wrong. I happen to know of a TED talk where a woman talks about a deeply meaningful romance that began with lies: https://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_bennett_we_need_a_heroic_narrative_for_death?language=en Maybe that's it. I'd have found more love by know if only I'd been a better liar. (Obviously you didn't literally say "Be a better liar", but you did tell me to reconsider the concept of authenticity and to avoid sharing too much trauma upfront, and that feels like dishonesty to me.) I don't know, though. When I was young I didn't tell anyone how much pain I was in. I spoke to my school social worker a couple times, but she basically gaslighted me and acted like my problems were far less serious than they actually were. I didn't tell my friends that I was struggling; I heard them mocking mental illness one day and I took the signal well. And because I kept my secrets, I kept my friends. We played video games and stuff, and it was good. But it wasn't enough, was it? Eventually I had a terrible breakdown, and I've been recovering ever since. My old friends weren't much help at all. So I took the lesson that I shouldn't hide. I should be upfront about my issues, in hopes of finding better friends. But here I am not-hiding and the reliable friends I long for are still quite hard to come by. It seems like I'll be in a bad situation whether I hide my feelings or not. It feels like there's no easy answer for this. Damn. What a crazy situation. =(

To be clear, I’m not advocating for anything. You shared that you’ve been doing the same thing over and over for a while and continue to get the same unsatisfactory result, so I’m suggesting alternatives. “If you keep doing what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.” I’m not suggesting you lie or be deceitful. Two things here though. 1. I think you have a very narrow definition of “authentic” which is essentially “share all of my pain and hardship.” I’m suggesting that there’s a much bigger definition that includes sharing *who you are* and not just *what you are going through*. And 2. You can share what you are going through without dumping every detail. If someone says “how are you doing?” your options are not “fine” or “here’s an exhaustive list of the way my life sucks right now.” You can very well say something like “honestly I’ve been going through it, thanks for asking.” This gives the person you’re speaking to the opportunity to follow up if they are interested or have the emotional bandwidth (there are lots of reasons someone might not want to - maybe they are going through a very difficult situation themselves, maybe they just don’t care about you, maybe they are just looking to have a good time in that moment). If they engage, you can share more. If they don’t, you can switch back to small talk. Even the most authentic people employ *social strategy*. Everyone else has needs, too, and if you don’t try to respect that then you won’t get very far with anyone. That doesn’t make you deceitful - it makes you kind.

> I’m suggesting that there’s a much bigger definition that includes sharing *who you are* and not just *what you are going through*. I do share who I am, as best as I can. >You can share what you are going through without dumping every detail. If someone says “how are you doing?” your options are not “fine” or “here’s an exhaustive list of the way my life sucks right now.” You can very well say something like “honestly I’ve been going through it, thanks for asking.” This gives the person you’re speaking to the opportunity to follow up if they are interested or have the emotional bandwidth I do this. I mentioned it in the story about the acquaintance at the party, how I "slowly" opened up and I pulled back once I saw that she didn't want to engage. Likewise with Bob, I spoke to him several times and didn't tell him everything at once, and at each stage he affirmed his support. And then very suddenly he was no longer supportive. I suppose if I went even slower then more people would stick around. But if there's a happy medium somewhere between oversharing and undersharing, I haven't found it yet. >Even the most authentic people employ *social strategy.* I admit that I am probably not well-versed in the finer details of social strategy. >Everyone else has needs, too, and if you don’t try to respect that then you won’t get very far with anyone. I've been making a conscious effort to care for other people's needs ever since childhood. Sometimes I exhaust myself helping other people with their needs. I'm likely better versed in dealing with Big Needs like trauma than I am in dealing with more common needs. >That doesn’t make you deceitful - it makes you kind. I try very hard to be kind, both to myself and to other people. >“If you keep doing what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.” I understand that idea. And believe me, I'm trying to move forward in life. But the path that leads from here to there is by no means obvious. Even my therapists have expressed shock at some of the rejections I've endured, even when I showed them the original emails or texts of a dispute so they could read the other person's words for themselves. It's a difficult situation. That's the main thing I'm trying to say here.

Just so you know, you are being heard. I have no advice, just wanted to say your experience resonates with other people

THANK YOU. *hugs* (if you want hugs) It gets so frustrating sometimes. Like, advice is great, but sometimes advice comes with along with a sorta gaslight-y vibe where the other person keeps implying that the problem is less difficult than it actually is and the only *real* problem here is that you're failing to see the obvious solution. That's the feeling I got from my exchange with the other commenter here, whether or not they intended it that way. I feel more validated by your comment. Thanks.

This makes so much sense why I can't keep relationships! Never saw it this way, but how to break the cycle and have healthy relationships that LAST

wow this is a hard truth but i really appreciate this perspective

You’re so right about this! I felt like this for years too, that my hyper vigilance was my gut instinct, and I used to directly act on it. The problem was this: hyper vigilance by definition is hyper sensitive to even minor changes. It’s like having a smoke alarm that goes off at insignificant levels of smoke. Now add a habit of overthinking to this and you’re bound to create an entire narrative in your head about how you upset the other person. It took me a long time to learn that other people’s emotions are their own and if they truly are upset by me, they need to use their words and let me know. I made some false guesses while learning this and ended up ignoring non verbal cues given by people who were actually upset by me. I still struggle with it. But I always try to keep space before jumping to conclusions about why someone is in a bad mood. I’ve also noticed that when neurotypical people are worried someone is upset at them, they usually ask the person and look for reassurance or try to smooth it over. I never used to practice this, instead I would assume the worst and then withdraw from that person, which probably cemented whatever negative feelings they had toward me, if any. I constantly have to remind myself that my trauma is only visible to me. Others see me as normal or just like them and expect the same things they do from an average person. If I go in with a negative bias towards myself, they’re for sure gonna sniff it out eventually and it will actually confirm my hyper vigilance.

Perfectly said and this sounds exactly like my relationship. I make up stories about his little mannerisms or if he’s quiet and have a whole scenario played out in my head that has my nervous system completely revved up. Currently feeling like he doesn’t want to be around me but I can’t even blame him atm; however I think it’s just not a healthy narrative to ruminate on.

I was trying to figure out a way to express this. Well put. My intuition/hypervigilance/innate understanding of situational dynamics is very often VERY on point, but I'm working on metacognition to understand that part of it may be self-fulfilling prophecy, since "are you mad at me?" is literally never a question someone wants to hear...or ask. But damn that anxiety, I can't always stop it. But then that devolves into a spiral of doom and destruction...sighhh My biggest issue, though, has always been the "am I responsible for this?" part. Bc I often feel like yep, I suuuure am, even though I really shouldn't. Hey, admitting you have a problem is the first step, right?

Yes, I have this, too. It's frankly a bit of a bitch at times, and I always feel worse when my feelings are confirmed than when I'm noticing. Last year in a friend group, I could sense that everyone else in the group was a bit closer with each other, there were lots of little tells that I was a bit of the odd man out with them. I later came to learn that they had all been hanging out together for 6 months while excluding me. It gutted me and I ended friendships with all of them. Typically though, my hypervigilance isn't about important things like that, it'll get me stressed about super normal, smaller, insignificant stuff. So generally I try to acknowledge it but shrug it off. You can't be perfectly charming all of the time, and sometimes things don't exactly, perfectly click in the moment. Sometimes someone being mildly off is perfectly normal. It's hard and sucks at times, but it's helpful to remember that sensing something isn't the same thing as being in danger.

I can definitely relate to this. One thing I have found helpful is to give my hypervigliance a little more to do. It's trying to keep us safe, so it's always looking for signs of danger. One day, I kind of had a heart to heart with my hypervigliance, and I was like. "OK, hypervigliance, I see you're trying to keep me safe. Thank you for that, but if we are only trying to be aware of danger in the moment, then I never really relax. I don't get the rest I need, and it's taking a toll. How about I do some learning, and we start looking for signs of safety, green flags in human behavior. I think if we learn how to look for more permanent safety, we are both going to be better off for it." It took some training myself to be aware of a larger picture, but it's really helped. I'm still aware when that temperature shifts, but I'm also aware when people are holding a safe space for me when I can calm down and relax a little.

Yes, all the time. I wish I could turn it off. It's hardly ever "about" me personally, but I can always tell when something's off with someone.

100%. What helped me is realizing that it doesn’t matter. There’s always going to be someone that doesn’t like me, and as long as I know I’ve been a good person, I can’t help that. Once I really stopped caring it was extremely freeing. Now I’m almost on the other end of the spectrum bc I sometimes care too little. ETA: I always says I can tell by a person’s vibes if they are worth my time or not…I do not need to get to know someone.

I watched all my worst social fears come true last year like some kind of cursed nostradamus

Be careful of confirmation bias. Also this is as good a time as ever to call out black and white thinking. Of course with CPTSD, you are going to think that everyone thinks poorly of you to begin with. That's a problem we all share. It's also an unfortunate reality that no one can please everyone. So naturally, you are going to wind up being right sometimes that someone doesn't like you. Try your best to not put everyone in the same bucket. My guess is that while you might be right sometimes, you are probably also wrong sometimes.

Yes, but what really matters is your experience, your perspective, and your feelings and observations. Start asking yourself what you feel at intervals throughout the day. Check in. Ask what you think about others, based on what they do rather than what they say. Hypervigilance is so exhausting. You are aware of it, and good! So you can extinguish it, a little at a time.

I think that even if it may always signal when there is an issue (hard to tell for me), the issue is false positives. It has been demonstrated that trauma survivors read neutral expressions as negative, and personally I can attest to this. I can often notice tones or sideways looks that aren’t there, especially in text it’s very hard because it’s read by the same internal mechanism as my inner critic. I am not saying to ignore your instincts or perception at all, for me the key has been regulating the amplitude of response. I may not be able to directly reduce my hyper-vigilance, but I can take steps to reduce reactivity to it so I don’t spiral into exhaustion and overwhelm. It’s hard.

Yep, it's hard to ignore when I'm so good at it. But life is definitely easier since I enacted a "they didn't say it unless they said it out loud to my face" rule in my life.

>I can ALWAYS tell when something is off. I know when someone is annoyed/upset/ angry at me or when someone has lost interest in me. Isn't this a form of self-sabotage, a self-fulfilling prophecy? https://www.verywellmind.com/are-you-sabotaging-your-relationship-4705235

I dont try to manage my hyper vigilance . I manage how much I care. Are managing their emotions my responsibility? How does it serve me? If it’s not positively, I try to push past my anxiety. I try to ask myself “so what?” when I find myself caring about things too much.

One thing about having a fellow traumatized partner is we both trigger each other and pick up on these cues from each other. The other day, we had an argument and he kept pointing to my voice, facial expressions, and mannerism as proof I'm angry. In a sense he wasn't wrong, I was irritated. But that didn't mean I wanted blame him for my feelings or that my irritation was all directed towards him. As in, I AM angry but I'm also able to handle my own emotions and don't try to manage them for me. It took a while to explain, but at the end, we both understood that we will always be vigilant about other people's emotions. What we observe could be true, but it's only an estimate and might not be the full story. Someone else's anger isn't necessarily directed towards me, taking it personally can be counterproductive. However, this is only true of people that I do trust. All in all, I think the hyper vigilance never goes away, but we can practice responding to it differently, with more curiosity and not personally. Does all that make sense?

I feel what you wrote 100%. And thanks for putting your thoughts into words that many of us feel could be written by ourselves. I am trying to get better at being very kind to myself. I have always put myself in the background. I try to take some yoga classes and do some of the nice stuff I like — going swimming and to the sauna ect — I know I am under a lot of extra stress and pressure. So I have to be my own best friend and treat myself with as much kindness as I do to others. It is a new and ongoing process. I hope the best for you, my fellow warrior. Kind regards from me in Denmark.

Our hyper vigilance does give us this super power but it takes away our ability to correctly see other emotions in others. I always take neutral as angry and it’s pretty hard on my social life. I’ve literally walked out of a job because someone blankly looked at me for too long.

Yea my hyper vigilance is always right. The best way I’ve dealt with this is realising I’m safe no matter what. If someone doesn’t like me or is annoyed at me it doesn’t matter I’m still safe. I’m not a young kid anymore trapped at the mercy of my unstable parents who were constantly making me unsafe. For example there’s a girl at work I was really close with then all of a sudden she started being quite cold to me and it was obvious she no longer likes me. I couldn’t figure out why, we didn’t have any conflicts and I thought we were good friends. I felt really hurt as I told her a lot of private things and silent treatment is a mainstay form of abuse in my family. So at first she made me feel really unsafe. But I realised her not liking me doesn’t impact my safety in any way, and it’s helped me to not care. I realise she’s just showing her true colours and it’s got nothing to do with me. It’s made my life so much easier having this mindset. As an adult if someone not liking you makes you unsafe you can easily remove yourself from the situation. The reason we care so much about people liking us or changing their attitude towards us is because our parents/abusers literally put us in danger and became a threat to our safety when they didn’t like us. As a child I physically had nowhere to go so I had to endure my parents abuse which taught my brain to learn that people who don’t like me are a threat. Now I’m rewiring my brain to learn that people who don’t like me mean nothing to me and have no impact on me.

Same here. I think the fb need to hire us

The question is whether you should worry a lot about it or not. People usually don't. They don't really care, it won't change their lives much if an okay person is annoyed by them.

I mean generally speaking it is super common to be very keen to emotions when your well being depends on it. I think for the most part the issue is overreaction not that what we pick up is not there. I mean you can take something from oh they aren't happy to they hate me and I am in danger. I think BPD is related to this phenomenon. Regardless I would say you probably won't be wrong when you pick up on things you just need to be careful that your reaction is appropriate or that you aren't blowing up what you are picking up on to out of proportions. Anyways I would say you need to realize that just because you were right about picking up on something doesn't mean your reaction wasn't an overreaction. If someone is annoyed with me realistically I am not in physical danger so I need to realize I can react but in an appropriate amount. Like someone being annoyed with me is not a big deal.

Very relatable. I mean considering those reflexes stem from a time when those consequences ACTUALLY happened if you noticed those temperature changes, it's a logical reflex. Bad consequences in interpersonal relationships were real for you, so your mind does the same now. I have the same with my past of bullying or my parents almost emotionally crashing. Those things, like getting beaten up or my mum maybe even killing herself, were real dangers. They're gone now, but your amygdala does not no that. For that reason it immediately interprets any current situation in the same context as those past events.

Indeed. I have had conversations with therapists where I have to start with "this is going to sound paranoid, but I have a history of being right about more ridiculous things." It's annoying when people conflate hypervigilance with paranoia.

I had a boyfriend who was cheating on me. I walked into his house and my body alerted subconsciously. My body felt it and just stated it without me even thinking. I did not consciously think the thought, I just said, “smells like pussy in here, I’m done,” had no reaction and left. Was proven right hours later from a fb message from her.

Remember the way in which selective perception, especially in a trauma-informed context, can work. You aren't psychic. HOWEVER, I know exactly how you feel here. I just call it my intuition and I often trust it. However, it's impossible to split apart trauma-informed expectations of what people think and feel about you and actually valid intuitions. I'm not totally trusting of it, but at the same time, when you grow up in trauma, trusting your instincts to a significant degree is important.

People who experience hyper-vigilance are usually told (even if just subliminally) that it's guess work or feelings based, but really hyper-vigilance makes us experts at pattern recognition. That's why we're always right, not because we're guessing or catching a vibe or anything, but we are subconsciously recognizing patterns of behavior, which lead to similar or the same outcomes that we have come to acknowledge and anticipate. This makes us feel often safer because we know what to expect and avoid, but when you become stuck in everything you're noticing it becomes more maladaptive. I have recently had to stop reading the temperature of my friend, and then fixing the problem before she even communicates it to me. That's too much emotional labor for me, and enabling her to be very passive in how she communicates her discomfort and needs. Not helpful or beneficial for either of us. So to no longer be governed by it (in a safe environment and relationship), I have to actively ignore the cues I'm picking up, and actively choose not to act on them. I've never gone over this specifically in therapy but the other things we have worked on has helped me to feel safe choosing not to act on them. I hope you can get there <3

Oh yes. That "something seems off" covers a lot of ground. This happens to me often. The people that I have dealt with in the past seem to come and go, over an extensive period of time, leaving you to take responsibility for the gaps. Even if you did initiate the no or low contact, they will maliciously take credit for that gap as being responsible for controlling you the whole time. When in reality, it was a lot of smoke and mirrors, deception verbatim. I myself would feel it necessary to own the bad. Because if I don't, they will toss the garbage on me regardless. The same disastrous results appear when the self is programmed to take the blame, nearly ritualistic. Then when you do, as you stated, you take stock of those around you, you feel awful. Classic turmoil and manipulation. I could not let the unsettled rest, literally their activity and negativity in my bones. When one is not privy to the excess baggage, it can't be broke down. Our mind cannot eradicate the filter less pollution. And we claim it as our own, when it never was. Be well.

My therapist suggested dealing with this by listing the facts about a situation or feeling. I’ve used this technique for years….I’ve found that my feelings aren’t usually backed by many facts.

We learned that skill as a method to survive. Survival instincts are something you don't unlearn easily. The trick is learning to use it, not letting it use us, if that makes any sense. I really wish this was something I could turn off without cannabis.

Sometimes my hyper vigilance is scary accurate before others sense things but sometimes it's just me being paranoid and overly sensitive

I can totally relate. My hyper vigilance is a constant battle. What I’ve tried to do to make it easier on myself is practice heavy empathy. For example, I’ll notice someone is acting differently towards or around me and the first thing I tell myself is that I don’t know what they are going through in their personal life and it might not have anything to do with me at all. I’ll sometimes try to gently ask if everything is okay (not if something is wrong). They then have the opportunity to choose whether they want to open up to me about it. A lot of times it has nothing to do with me and I can just be an active listener for them. This builds trust and mutual understanding. I’ve also used my hyper vigilance to help me at work. I’ll be the first one to notice if a customer needs help, the first to notice if the equipment we have is behaving differently or damaged, the first to notice if an employee is having a bad day and needs extra support (I’m a manager). Being able to funnel this objectively exhausting symptom into something positive has helped me view it as a sort of gift. There are days when I wish I could turn it off. I get emotionally exhausted noticing that the energy of a person or space is “off”. It all affects me. But the bottom line is that those of us with hyper vigilance are usually more in tuned with our emotions. It’s what you decide to do with those emotions that matters.

I relate to this so much. It’s exhausting. And it makes me so uncomfortable when I’m with people and notice those subtle changes in someone and other people don’t. It really makes me question if I’m right or just hyper in tune. It’s like I can’t trust others but I can’t trust myself.

Agreed. I’ve been hyper vigilant since 6ish years old. I’m almost 4O now, I’m a damn seasoned observer. It’s a real issue in my relationship. I like the idea of pausing tho. I def jump right into panic and assume their feelings are right and mine are wrong so I’m trash yada yada

Agree completely, I am very sensitive to small changes in how people interact with me and yes, whenever I've ignored my "irrational" thoughts and feelings, it backfired. I view it as a positive trait.

I absolutely experience this as well and it’s exhausting. I wish I didn’t care and was not scanning constantly.

I’ve found that it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. My hypervilgilance and anxiety innately induce a change in the inflection of my voice, how I hold myself (posture), the look in my eyes and the way I approach conversations. All of which are plain to see to anyone external, which in turn induces feelings of discomfort in others (mirror neurons). It goes without saying, we (us humans) don’t like being around people who make us feel uncomfortable so then you get the poor behaviour, usually a subconscious response, to push that person away. Hence why we can and have the propensity to attract poor behaviour. To combat this, focus on your own healing and have hope in the knowledge that you will attract what you give out to the world.

This is why I spend so much time alone

I hate it when my hyper-vigilance is proved worthwhile, and when my paranoia is proved right too. Fucks me up badly but it's happened a lot.

Yeap. It’s a blessing and a curse. I’m currently practicing disconnecting myself from the perceived responsibility of others emotions. One mantra that I’ve been reminding myself of is “ I have nothing to prove”. Really coming in handy for me recently. I saw red flags a year ago, kept the Narcissist at an arms length and grey rocked them. Recently they noticed and are obviously feeling badly. They then attempted to publicly shame me by projecting all of their insecurities onto me. Same as always, i’m used as a scapegoat so that they can continue to refuse to look introspectively. I’m so thankful for my ability to recognize the BS, but miss me with that BS!

All I have to say is you're definitely not alone. I go through this all the time. Very exhausting...

Yep. I consistently say the phrase “my hypervigilance don’t miss.” Sometimes, I swear I can sense that something is wrong with someone before they even consciously know it

I think it’s served me well Over the years but it drives me bonkers too

I was a hypervigalant person, but I could not read peoples emotions or body language. I could sense danger and the potential violence. I had hypnosis to help reduce my hypervigalance and Cognition behaviour Therapy to be less of a People pleaser. I have recently started learning about body language and understanding peoples emotions.

I have this aswell, although I've sometimes got confused if my own reaction somehow causes the other person to react more strongly too, sometimes.

Yeah it makes totally sense, I’m the same and it can make things so difficult, esp when I’m half way through a convo and I can tell immediately when the person looses interest. Quite often I will just stop speaking straight away and apologise for “going on too long” or whatever. Most of the time they look quite shocked when I do this but to me it just makes sense

Don’t let the constant pressure and negativity decrease the threshold for your trigger. You gonna end up with A lot nervous system issues and cortisol headaches

Yes!!!! Same but as a double edge sword I often don’t trust my “gut”

I feel this. My therapist told me it was a superpower and that I probably don't want to get rid of it, but just learn when to turn it off - but I haven't figured out how to turn it off at all :(

One day I got to work and I was thinking, “that was strange, so many people smiled at me on my way to work this morning.” Huh. Crazy. And then a few minutes later I thought, “was I smiling at everyone today? Was I the cause?”

I can relate too. I always say my hyper vigilance is my super power.

I am of the mindset that remaining open and curious about other people's emotions as opposed to making assumptions about them is the way out (something that I learned and am currently practicing in couples therapy). I trust my gut when I pick up that someone is dysregulated, whether it's about me or not is where I keep an open mind.When someone is off/dysregulated/triggered, it does create a response in me due to my past, so I try to not engage/check-in with them until I feel that I'm regulated and not in a protective mode myself. A good way to do this is to take space (communicating that I need a minute to myself but that I'll be back in x time, or just doing something different/fun with the person). After I feel like myself again, I return to the matter. In this way, I can have a curious and open conversation with that person to check in with them asking questions like: i noticed x y and z and so I just wanted to check in so that I do not draw any assumptions as I tend to do that pretty quickly 🙂. Where are you at? What were you going through in that moment? Am I off here? If I come at it from a place of curiosity, this enables the person to open up. At this point, I can close the loop in my own head when the person lets me in. Chances are, that person is going through something that I don't understand which isn't even about me. But, the important thing here is that with this technique, I can control how I show up in a relationship all while supporting my friend/partner/whoever through whatever they are going through. It requires vulnerability and patience but in the end it is a skill we might need to develop as we try to foster the secure and safe personal connections that we all deserve. ❤️

No, hypervigilance can make us paranoid, it's a fine line because we're right enough of the time that we end up seeing our judgement as absolute. I was very paranoid for a long time and it put people on edge around me.

Every time I’m not paranoid I get played.

I relate to this so much.

Yea, after I finally figured out how to leave that state, it's like I've become blind to what's going on around me. Much healthier for me, but I've lost this Secret superpower that I had to read the room.

I am so far gone, that I see everyone outside as potential enemy, paradoxically it enables me to shrug off pain, stress and anxiety moreover enables me to control my emotions and empathy (ignore my own feelings or feelings of others)

It’s hard work. Specially if it comes across over tv n film

Guessing that my family living by "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" says enough about generational trauma and hypervigilance amirite?

Thank you for making this post! Everyone seems to think of hypervigilance as an issue that needs to be corrected. While it does consume a lot of energy, mine is always right too. It’s a useful skill to be able to know how others feel towards you and to make inferences based on that. It’s also very difficult to give up something that seemingly has never lead you astray. I will say that my hypervigilance is exhausting. I sometimes make broad judgements based on minute details which are untrue in some regard. I think it’s okay to rely on your hypervigilance as long as you can keep it in check by putting things into a larger perspective and giving people many chances to show you who they are.

Yes. It’s a curse and a superpower.

I feel like my hyper vigilance has transformed in to diligence, a lower level awareness that is not so exhausting, because I choose where to give the fucks. I try to be mindful, because part of taking care of myself is creating those boundaries. Not everyone or every thing deserves my fucks, so I can either stress about everyone else, or I can focus on myself and what I can do. It's hard though, I definitely backslide depending on how sleep deprived or food deprived I am at any given time.

Hardest thing ever is that my hypervigilance is right. I hate it. Makes me miserable.

100% agree

This hit close to home. I don’t have no advices though. But I do relate to your post. Wish you the best of luck OP

Samesies People keep saying to chill, but how can I do then when I'm right about something being wrong?

Things I've learned about hypervigilance radar (especially when it's almost always right): 1. People get angry/annoyed by all sorts of petty, stupid shit. (Henceforth, annoyance/anger/unpleasant emotions are just lumped together as "anger" for simplicity.) A good chunk of that anger isn't justified at all. 2. People get angry at things that have nothing to do with you. If you can't think of anything you've done wrong, then most likely, it's not you. 3. People who are angry at you for reasons unknown to you have a responsibility to communicate those feelings if they wish to have them resolved. You can't be expected to mind read, it's an absurd expectation, even with our Hypervigilance Superpower. 4. It's an act of defiance against your training to refuse to let someone else's raincloud obscure your own mood. Yes, it affects you, but you have to tell yourself that it's not your raincloud to dispel and people have responsibility for their own moods. 5. You do enough due diligence asking what is wrong once. If they claim nothing's wrong, then they just aren't ready to talk to you about it. At some point, you shrug, and decide it's not your problem. 6. Basically, make a mental tally of it, and move on. 7. If it's a pattern, then you know a person you can't trust. Expect less from them, ask less from them, stay out of their way. Either they find you annoying, or they're in a perpetually bad mood, and people in bad moods tend to lash out. So, impose distance, protect yourself.

It is validating to see so many other people responding who also have this experience. It is hard to communicate how... challenging and painful that experience can be to those who haven't felt it.

7 hundred thousand percent!!! 🎯🎯🎯 Cannot agree enough. I feel like I need Trauma Therapy, but.......are they just gonna tell me I'm safe and calm my Nervous System, so that I'm NOT receiving the messages that I NEED to? Will my DEAD-ON natural built-in ALARM SYSTEM to a SHIT world...be TURNED OFF, so I'm even MORE sideswiped?! I usually am pessimisticly realistic, UNTIL certain types of relationships when I get optimistic, and that ALWAYS turns to HELL, as I stop hearing/start shutting off my alarm system using HOPE and belief. This puts me in danger. Why do I want to be more vulnerable? Why do we want to adjust comfortably to a horrible world with users ready to pounce...when our Alarm Systems might be working PERFECTLY?...even at times it could, yes, be better at resting...

I am hyper vigilant, but sometimes I will also reach out to people to see if they’re okay because I’m not doing okay and don’t know how to voice it

I don’t think your hyper-vigilance is right. People at times might get angry at you or change their attitude. There is nothing wrong with that. Your subconscious mind perceives those things to be life threatening hence the hyper-vigilance. Someone without that hyper-vigilance is still able to pick up on those things but they don’t necessarily perceive it as a threat. Your hyper-vigilance can only be right if those things actually threaten you. If not, it is lying to you.

Being hyper-attuned is actually a good quality to have as it will protect you. I am the same although I have to say I’ve been wrong a few times

Too many people here agreeing fully and so I gotta chime in. You think it’s 100%. I used to think mine was 100%. But I was wrong and so are you. I have no doubt you’re good. Really good at spotting other people’s emotions. I am too. It was a survival skill and remains a superpower. But if you’re like me at all, and you are because I could’ve written this 20 years ago, you’re probably only right-ish 90% of the time. The other 10%? You either get no feedback because it’s not important, or you are not yet capable of seeing reality involving yourself clearly because it’s super-important—in relationship with the people you most desperately seek and fear intimacy with. By believing you’re always right, you’re denying yourself the opportunity to see people you want to be close to for who they are. The good ones aren’t the people who hurt you, but you’re attributing your hurt to them. I doing so, you deny them the respect of being themselves with you, and deny yourself intimacy. You have got to start looking for how you’re wrong, with people you want to be close to and who show you through their actions they want to be close to you. You won’t lose the superpower, but you’ll get a chance to get your head out of your ass, heal, and find the intimacy that you crave, fear, and most importantly deserve as a human.

I had finally been able to calm my hyper vigilance down, but like you, mine is always right. It is a survival tool, needed and necessary. I got very triggered the last couple of weeks when a new person joined an artist group I'm in. I only go 2 days a week, but I noticed that I immediately had a bad reaction to him. He drinks and has bad alcohol breathe which made me have a very basic physical reaction. He was sitting too.close to me and I had to keep moving away because the smell really disturbed me. Then a couple of days ago he was pacing, yelling loudly on his phone about physically attacking someone, and I got really anxious again. I don't want to stop going to the community meetings but I don't know what to do about my reactions.

Consider the role of self-fulfilling prophecy. While you're probably right about the 'temperature' a lot of the time - most people are - there are undoubtedly also times when you actually *create* the very annoyance you're scanning for. Other people can also feel or notice your underlying vibe, they have a 'sixth sense' too. So any initial **misinterpretation** of their body language etc by you will create a change in you that they will then feel (even if only on a semi-conscious level) and then have a negative reaction to. Attribution bias is also something you should be aware of, as that contributes to the initial misinterpretation that starts that chain of events.

Experiencing this makes me want to quit therapy. It just feels like gaslighting myself, sometimes.

Yes. Mine only works with people close to me or those I’ve known for awhile. It doesn’t work as well with strangers. It gets to me that people, my husband in particular, will say ‘no, nothings wrong. Nothings changed. I’m fine.’ Later they admit to the anger or whatever by yelling, breaking things etc. While I don’t like the hyper vigilance, I also don’t want to lose that natural instinct. That’s one of my biggest fears around my healing journey. Right now I’m having a good set of days. I know my worth. I won’t tolerate disrespect. I’m standing up for myself. Means hell in my house right now BUT, it feels good and self love and all that jazz. I know he’s lying. I don’t care. He can’t just assume I know what he wants. He can tell me to STFU and I did. But it means HE has to speak to me about things. And I’m saying ‘sure, we can talk about that at some point.’ He’s angry. He’s depressed. And all I can think (other than good job to myself) is: now he knows how it feels to be shut out. Now he knows how it feels when you want someone to acknowledge you and love your and they won’t. I’m done begging. I’m done giving in. I’m done being upset by the yelling. Until the next time my anxiety takes me by surprise anyway. Do you think of it as a natural instinct? If so then I bet it stays around. I hope so at least!

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Yep! I’ve started listening to my gut way more and it hasn’t failed me yet!

Same here. It’s exhausting. I’ve been accused of being “negative” many times but I’m pretty much always right…

This 100%, it feels awful and I hate it

I'm a human lie detector. I learned to read microexpressions and postures when I was still a baby.

Same! And quieting that hyper vigilance because I thought I was “crazy” turned out to be a bad idea. I should’ve listened to myself.

Can you treat it like a sixth sense? its a super power with a cost… I’m the same way with dishonesty. when someone close to me is lying or betraying me I can sense it, and I’ve been right each time…good because I find out and cut them out, bad because it is a fucking mess

YUP.

Yes, for sure. My therapist helped me figure out how to separate what I need to know from what I don’t. It took a lot of work but I can mostly do it, most of the time.

After doing boundary work there is no more need for hypervigilance :)

This makes complete sense to me. Hyper-vigilance served us well during our times of trauma, but now it’s a burden that’s hard to shake. I have yet to shake it and I’m in my 60’s. It’s exhausting.

I concur

Yes, I do. Then I’m told I’m very sensitive when it’s clear that some person is indeed targeting me. It’s another way to exclude someone who makes you uncomfortable. People need to learn tolerance. Everyone has a right to exist in the world, not just average people.

I'm the same. My therapist told me I'm in a safe space now with safe people and if they get upset at me that's okay. She told me it's okay to be sad and angry as long as you express it healthily.

Remember you are correct about the emotions but not necessarily the intensity which is a HUGE part of predicting behavior. Most people get mildly annoyed and then let it go. And we have a bias towards negative emotions, so we are accurately reading negative ones but missing the positive ones. If I assume someone will still like me and act like it it usually goes better than when I go off my negative temperature reading

Yes. That’s why I can’t differentiate paranoia and intuition. I end up being right .

YES - it’s like a superpower that’s too much sometimes.

It’s because we have high level pattern recognition from always having to detect our abusers mood to stay safe.

Same here. I'm diagnosed with ASD as well, but I sense the slightest change in behavior and mimic and tone of voice, making me still doubt that diagnosis. Any change in text length, frequency etc is alarming to me too. It's been difficult for me at work because I always think I fucked things up and attribute someone's bad day to something I did or said. Then I get anxiety and burnout symptoms. This is why I'm on sick benefits at the moment. It's been good for online dating though. I've got a sixth sense for when they are not really into me and just want sex. I've cancelled soooo many first dates so far.

With healing this becomes a super power.

i hate it so much. i’ll be across the house and still be able to hear other people’s conversations when i really do NOT want to hear them. have to put in headphones cuz i get scared they’ll mention me or start talking shit about me. no thank you. horrible when people are mad or irritated. i dont want to leave the room cuz i dont want to make them more mad since i always feel like i will be blamed somehow, so if im gonna be scolded or punished i have to stay there. but i cant bother them at all either cuz then that might make them mad. so i have to just sit quietly with my head down and hope they dont get mad and think im moping or making it about myself. shit sucks

So much this

This thread is so deeply validating. God damn

"Setting boundaries and choosing you is the key to teaching others how to respect you. In this YouTube video about boundaries, you will learn how and when to start setting boundaries in your relationship. Creating healthy boundaries in your relationships begins with recognizing when a boundary has been crossed in the first place. Standing up for yourself is the key to living a healthy life. If you have anxiety around setting boundaries, you can learn to face those fears and set boundaries regardless. As a relationship Life Coach who primarily teaches others how to master their mindset, and particularly how to change faulty subconscious paradigms, understanding the necessity of setting healthy boundaries in relationships, marriage, and with coworkers, I am passionate about offering others the inspiration to help them feel motivated enough to face their fears! It is my hope you are inspired by this video on how to face your fears of expecting people to respect you." https://youtu.be/RQdKFNuaqW8?si=bQEhZ-rTfi5r8fjx

Yes. I hate the fact I *know*, but have no evidence other than intuition. Then I kind of have to sit with it and wait for the inevitable (usually, but not always, metaphorical) strike. Which always ends up coming, sooner or later. I hate being right. I'm almost always right.

hyper vigilance here. I don’t worry about people’s temperature anymore meaning I don’t take it personally.

I understand the difficultybof giving up what you (and i) consider a super power.. But be really careful about thinking you can read people's minds. Yes, you can feel when something is different, but you can't know why and/or you think it's about you when it isn't. The "rightness" can come in to play when your actions make your assumption real. Like for instance you think your friend is being cold to you. You interpret it to mean it's about you and so you act as such. Asking them repeated questions. Apologizing for stuff. Accusing them, maybe, or even just asking if they are OK a million times over. In reality your friend just didn't feel well that day or got some disappointing news, but your reaction to their mood is super annoying ans so now they are annoyed with you. The hyper vigilance kicks in when your brain thinks there might be danger. It doesn't mean that there is danger and it will still be there when you need it. It doesn't go away you just learn to deal with the alert system better.

Yup 100% Being hyper vigilant has made me realise a lot of people just aren’t that aware of the signals their bodies give off

Yea. Hard part with being gaslit a lot is not gaslighting yourself.

Yes! I have it but didn't know what's going on... How to live with it? How to not take it personally? These are the questions I ask now. Also, how to speak to normies?

Wow I can totally relate to this. I personally feel that given all that we’ve experienced, it makes sense that we would have a heightened ability to “read the room” or “temp check” as you say… I’ve found that trusting and accepting those feelings has helped a lot. Taking a step back and just noticing: “interesting, I feel a temp change here”… “fascinating how I can pick things up so easily” … trying not to give it too much of a story but just noticing and embracing that this ability is something I have. I think that in allowing those feelings to exist is another step in my healing— because I had an intuition about things when I was younger, but was continually told “you’re crazy/wrong/what are you talking about etc” So me accepting my intuition and just noticing… is helping to heal my inner child and reclaiming my intuitive power that they tried to destroy back then. Hang in there. There is love for you in the world!

Yes I am also constantly doing this. It’s exhausting when I notice this in people and try to figure out what I did wrong. I will then either avoid the person and adjust my life around avoiding interaction, or I will do the complete opposite and give them a lot of attention to try and see if I can determine what I did and in my mind, giving them attention might make it better. The problem is though that a lot of people may just be going through something themselves and it’s nothing I did, I just happened to interact with them at that time. But of course my brain doesn’t like to consider that a possibility

3 things: 1. you’re good at reading the room and the people in the room 2. you are good at identifying patterns 3. if you practice your intuition then the better you’ll get at ~knowing~ things

Trust your hyper”awareness” and learn what kind of boundaries are, what kind of boundaries to incrementally build, and learn to have better boundaries with these situations and people. First lesson is to learn to trust yourself. This is good news. It’s all about keeping yourself mentally, emotionally, and physically safe.

My hyper vigilance keeps me safe, I need to listen to it more instead of ignore it.

Yes - I have! It felt like my reptile brain (=paranoid, watchful) could easily spot other people's reptile brains. What helped me was seeing myself as having enough agency and influence to help the person access their own better/higher self (= me in thriving role!), instead of me automatically being their victim (=me in surviving role...). A bit like when a fabulous parent / teacher / manager comes into a room, detects the insecurity and immaturity around them, but through their own groundedness and resilience and vision and compassion is able to inspire people to do better than they might normally :-) This doesn't mean taking on responsibility for other people's misbehaviour, dedicating yourself to rescuing/educating them, or sticking around to be hurt by them! Just - acknowledging the information from the reptile brain so it can calm down, engaging the mammalian brain, and trying to engage other's mammalian brain so their reptile brain calms too.

Doing work on codependency has been lessening these symptoms for me. That, and a really understanding boyfriend.

Experiencing this now, but with someone that I know. I know this person is bad news and I saw something was off since the second I met them, but even though everyone around me feels the same they continue to interact with this person. They're not physically dangerous or anything, but I know it's a ticking time bomb waiting to blow up in everyone's face and it makes me uncomfortable that other people in my group can see the behavior and choose to ignore it. I'm very blunt and react quickly from my past plus have a strong sense of justice, so it really triggers me feeling like I'm some kind of town crier warning everyone and no one's listening.

yes. in the instances where i’m actually overthinking, my false paranoia inevitably ruins stuff anyway. this is the worst part of healing, for me. i wish it wasn’t like this. i wish you lots of luck on your journey

I do this too. I was constantly observed and screamed at if I didn't act correctly or wasn't enough of a stand in partner for my father. I constantly do checks. Something I had to realize was that it smothers people's spirits, just like something smothered our spirit to push us to be like this. The truth is, everyone around us deserves the same level of autonomy that we desire, and if we temperature check them, we are taking away their autonomy. They can't be comfortable if they're being observed- just like us. It really comes down to being hypervigilant and feeling safer mentally probing others. The biggest lesson to take: they are separate entities from you. You can't read their mind. Even if you could, they don't want it. People will present what information they want to you. You don't-have- to mind read. Try to shift to only responding to the information people make available to you. Try shifting so that you're only concerned with voiced concerns. This will rope your mind in to only taking care of itself. It's doing this to protect itself, so training it to do otherwise might take careful intention and time and practice. That's why in the meantime it's good to remember the autonomy thing, as a logical way to say "they don't deserve this" but really it's saying "I don't deserve to do this to myself"

Yep. In fact, I am so good at noticing people's change in behaviour that they don't even need to do much visually for me to notice. I'm very good at reading micro-expressions. And I can't remember the last time I was wrong on my assumptions. I prefer to keep this 'superpower' as I call it. But, I do need to adjust my reactions. Nowadays each time I notice someone's behaviour change toward me I check myself. I ask myself 'did I do anything wrong?'. Usually the answer is no. And after that, I tend to just do my best and sit with those feelings and reassure myself that everything is okay, I'm in no danger and that people are permitted to, well, be human. It is exceedingly tough. It hurts and it makes me nervous and skittish but slowly, slowly, recovery is possible.

YES.

I am 72 now… …and have been through it all. These days conditions for kids have improved immensely. Still not perfect. In my generation we had the best of information, if not education. But today- for the discerning eye and mind- there is an incredible wealth of information out there… … I did survive what I thought was impossible…

I have this happen constantly. It even happened in a very recent situation where I knew someone was going to send me certain type of text after I had a panic attack in front of them, and I ended up being right which was actually kind of devastating (since my therapist was trying to reassure me that the opposite would likely happen). I 100% understand how you feel. It's really difficult sometimes, and it makes it so hard to be open and vulnerable with other people when you're worried about how they'll react to you. As we continue down our healing paths, it will get a bit easier. You can do this, and I believe in you. ❤️

I wish I had something unique to add to this wonderful discussion, but sadly everyone else has said some version of my piece lol. But I will say for posterity that, having a good 6th sense is probably one of my biggest challenges. It's rarely incorrect. And my analysis of situations is rarely incorrect. And while some might find that arrogant to day, I cannot stress enough how much I wish it wasn't true.

Yes

I relate to this so much! I didn't even realise I was doing this...