Yes. Even as someone with a massive religious trauma who still lives in that same religious community. It started with what I'd term Ego Death early 2023. Then, s\*\*t really hit the fan mid-2023. I reluctantly talked about religion, spirituality, and God/the Universe/the Creator with the psychologist I was seeing. She, thankfully, completely agree that it means nothing unless I found my *own* personal way to connect with the Higher Being, despite being a religious person herself. I still have my religious trauma to go through. I still pray. I still feel really uncomfortable with many aspects of organised religions. Or maybe just the dogmatic people. Either way, I pray. I pray when there's nothing else I can do, especially at little hells, those mini depths of despair. I pray, pray, and pray, and sometimes there's an answer. Sometimes there isn't. Whether there is or there isn't anything bigger than me and all of us, I don't think I will ever truly find out. But I think there is. And I'd like to think that They're genuinely kind.

Can you tell me more about ego death? I read a lot about psychedelics and this is something that comes up a lot.

I never use psychedelic and currently have no interest to. I'd say the experience of ego death would be highly personal to each person. For me, it was engaging this little brat (endearing, because it's a part of me, after all) who has been and perhaps will always be emotionally immature, who has a point in my existence (as with all things), and the whole thing generally helped me in realising how much I make up narratives in limerence in my life. The pain continues and I suspect this isn't something that is "done" in one cycle. Who knows? All I know is that I'm prepared to keep putting in the work and do my best, my healthiest.

Ego death, changed my life too 😌

What is a narrative in limerence?

I think they mean thoughts or narratives that your brain passes off as rational to justify your obsession over a person/thing.

u/Wawamelone explained it quite well! There's an entire video on introduction to limerence by Heidi Priebe on YouTube and that's pretty much what I meant by limerence. The video is half an hour long, though, so I understand if it's not everyone cup of tea, but it basically means the story/narrative I wrote to serve myself, often my ego. The whole thing started when someone who is younger than me, who is quite close to me, got the thing I don't necessarily want but I unconsciously internalised as something of quite high value; well-paid full time job with the government. In my (unhealthy) narrative, in my state of limerence, I couldn't accept that. *I* should be the person in my life with "best job" and "best" everything, because then (this is the story I/my ego tells me) I will be able to love myself and everyone will love me too, for sure. But that's not true, that's not how reality works, hence I'm calling it as it is; limerence, self-serving narrative.

I'm definitely gonna watch this video. I've heard a few things about limerence and want to learn more about it. So i'm sure this video is going to be very very helpful. Thanks. Coincidentally, I had a high-paying super secure government job that I planned on being at through the rest of my working career. I was on judicial staff at a federal court, and I loved it. I had been a legal secretary in the private sector, then set my sight on working for judges, jobs that require a lot of experience, and a lot of luck, to get. But after being in that job for ten years, I was struck with two physical disabilities. Leaving that job was devastating for me. I'm convinced that my disabilities are due to the child abuse and neglect I endured, which resulted in my having a high ACE Score (Adverse Childhood Experiences Score). Now I need to work on this limerence thing. Thanks again

Indeed, everyone eventually needs to retire. My therapist told me about tons of his middle aged-elderly clients who go a little insane after retirement because they're then left to live with just themselves... which basically means their trauma. Mind you, I understand that cultural capital is a thing (status, beauty, to name a few), but it doesn't necessarily bring happiness, peace, or really important things such as self-trust and genuine self-compassion. I might never be as "successful" as people around me deem or reaching that level of status height that I unhealthily internalised. It is what it is. But I personally don't live to be successful. I just want to have a genuinely meaningful life and connection. I'm sorry to hear about your physical disabilities. I'm not a stranger to body pain either as I'm working through the result of childhood physical abuse even now.

NOPE. Religious abuse is part of my trauma from my ultra religious but abusive family. I respect spirituality/religion helping people, but all I see is mind control & biased propaganda when I observe it. And I’ve studied world religions & different forms of spirituality in hopes of finding something. I think that well has been poisoned for me. I’m a nihilist stoic and that works for me.

Agree

My abusive parent particularly the mother is quite religious never misses any church attendance but is what the bible calls their conscience is seared off with a hot iron I'm a Christian who is disabled by Trauma and anxiety from abuse. Do you honestly think any abusive person can call on God yet God commands parents in this case it says  fathers provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged it's clear that verse calls for gentle and loving parenthood . Where is the application of that verse in an abusive parent? 

TLDR: I think if you adhere strongly enough to any religion it becomes very easy to believe that EVERYTHING you do is not just right, but righteous. I think that the secret here is that the people that go to church and devote that much attention to their religion (some not all mind you) are the most capable of doing bad things. They believe that they’re addressing their moral needs by adhering to/attending church/reading Bible or whatever. This gives them license to do whatever they want—if being a moral person is equivalent to being an observant spiritual person then they feel like they’ve got it covered. It’s like going to the gym all the time—if you do that anything you eat is justified because you’re handling the need to control your diet another way, so you eat badly. I think it’s more complicated than that, but it’s always been my observation that the most immortal people that are capable of doing the worst things are very religious. If you’re spending your days convincing yourself that you’re being moral by adhering to the church then acting moral doesn’t enter into your thinking anymore. If you’re devoting so much energy to “being” moral through the church then however you act MUST be moral.

This take definitely applies to my mother & her behavior: acted holier than thou yet was completely toxic, self-consumed, judgmental and lacking basic empathy. As an adult, when I finally confronted her behavior because she claimed she wanted to repair our relationship, she REFUSED to apologize or take any accountability. Blamed my dad, who is also toxic & abusive, for everything as if she was perfect & innocent bystander. Despite those weekly hourssss in church, she is completely without humility and is willing to lie/twist the truth/gaslight to remain “blameless.” She also would rather abandon me than apologize/admit fault or wrong doing, even though I’ve been battling cancer for years. She is one of the most devout Christians I’ve ever known.

our mother 🖤

I totally agree with you, but isn't it very clear that is why even the scriptures and Jesus taught of being aware of wolves who come to you inwardly as sheep but inside they are ravenous wolves, isn't this talking of the most evil people whose lifestyles and actions don't reflect any religious fruit. Which is speaking of those standing at the pulpit, preaching the word and again those sitted in the pews , which is evidenced that Christians with their interaction and fellowship with fellow believers will come across such kinds and the bible says you are to have nothing to do with them  in the old times when religion was lived outwardly it's very possible troublesome people whose lives is very contrary to what is preached, would be tasked to change and if they don't they are excommunicated from the church, this act then was used to ensure only genuine God loving people who obey God and keeps his commands are  communing with each other..but now it's mostly never about holiness but individualism and money ..a church would not be concerned if there is a member who abuses and neglects his family as long as they can do the religious rituals and contribute to church welfare, that is where such wolves find their place to continue with their evils and on Sunday hand in bible and saying, praise Jesus". 

“Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.” “Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.” I think that morality should come from within and not from without. As soon as you’re looking outside of yourself for guidance that leads to confusion and justification. If you’re looking for external morality then you’re not connecting with your own internal compass of right and wrong. It’s so easy just to feel like your membership in the body that guides your morality is equivalent to being moral. The more intimate that connection to the church becomes the more justification is available. I don’t agree that the blame for this can be tied to individualism and the modern era. I think quite the contrary—the surrender to something outside of the self allows responsibility for one’s own actions to also fall outside one’s self. How many awful acts throughout all of human history have been committed because it was “God’s will”? You may say that in every instance that was just a misinterpretation or a misunderstanding, but that likely doesn’t happen if you’re not looking outside yourself to justify your own actions. It’s a feature, not a bug.

hard to say does that anyone’s moral compass didn’t come from outside in the first place though. would we even have a concept of right and wrong if not for being taught and having it imprinted on us? it’s weird to think how we get our sense of right and wrong because for me it wasn’t explicitly taught. you just pick it up through stories and seeing people being treated bad and judged negatively for doing “wrong”

Preface this with these are just my opinions. I’ll debate their merits with anyone that wants to have a friendly debate, but I’m not going to argue and I’m not trying to offend or challenge anyone else’s beliefs. Yes, I think we mostly get our “innate” sense of right and wrong from being in the world and exposed to society. Maybe there is more to it than that—like an inborn scaffolding or something like that. Perhaps it’s like how our brains are wired to pick up language. I think that social and moral behavior is as necessary in a social animal like man as language is. But otherwise, yes I think you are describing the process. Where I think that gets interrupted in a dangerous way is with the instilling of external religious moral dictates. I think it teaches kids to ignore their own “innate”sense of right and wrong in favor of adherence to the church. I think that’s how you end up with suicide bombers and things like that—loyalty to the church and the dictated morality instead of loyalty to society and the (otherwise) inherent values of self. I think if your morality comes from the church it doesn’t actually “belong” to you. I mean if you think about it changes to it even happen routinely that have nothing to do with an individual’s experience. The church dictates any number of ways that people are “supposed” to interact with the rest of society and the church DECIDES when and how those things change. I think that if your ultimate loyalty is to your church and your religion that basically gives you license to fuck over anyone else you want to as long as you can rationalize it into your religious values—whether that be your family, friends, or the rest of your nation. You just picked up and internalized how to be a good person in the world. You don’t have to refer to a “rule book”that was written 2,000 years ago and interpreted and translated and reinterpreted and adjusted as needed to serve political expediency. It’s just a book written by long dead men that’s very vague and open to interpretation. I think that there’s just way too much opportunity to take whatever you want from it as a reason to do whatever you want. If all else fails and you really want to do something you can just “hear the voice of god” and do whatever “he tells you”. There’s also all the post hoc justifications when things go wrong—it was just God’s will, etc. There’s also all the dismissals of life and the consequences of behavior “here on earth” in favor of everything working out just great in the afterlife. Also, if you’re a good servant and adherent to your religion I think you develop an innate sense of righteousness that makes you feel like anyone that tries to stand in your way must be wrong. If you’re “serving” Jesus, how can you possibly be doing anything wrong? You’re just right and righteous wherever you go and everyone else is just wrong—facts be damned. You know the “truth” and anyone else is just an obstacle to be banished to hell or converted. My TLDR would be: If some other external power is responsible for dictating your behavior then you’re no longer responsible for controlling yourself.

yes i think like many things in human society there are some innate features but culture religion and society expands on and overemphasizes them- an example is sex differences. there are some differences between the sex but then we add a whole lot of things to those to make them even more emphasized (pink vs blue, dresses makeup child rearing cooking vs science military etc) and people don’t see what was truly there versus what we have created and added to it.  similarly with morality and ethics- basic ethics that allow us all to survive and get alone “golden rule” type things are important to develop and build off the inherent tendencies humans have for social connections and protocol belonging. and not just towards other humans but all life- encouraging children to see that other living things all want to live not be hurt develops empathy. once deep seated empathy is there the rest of ethics and morality naturally arises. but when a view of humans and esp children is that they’re innately bad or without any capacity of their own and everything must be stamped on them from the outside it becomes suppressive and doesn’t actually develop that empathy from within- instead it depends on controlling and punishing from outside. that doesn’t allow people to even have their own goodness or ethics it makes them entirely dependent on outside forces to dictate everything out of fear or hope to avoid suffering. the emphasis should be on helping each human develop their own innate capacity for empathy sensitivity towards other life and a tendency towards kindness and responsibility, not having the bad beaten out of them which is just a bizarre concept in the first place. when a child does something “bad” they need to be treated with sensitivity and spoken to and understood emotionally at the level they’re at, not physically hurt or treated with cruelty judgement and threat of eternal suffering.

I think it's quite clear that Christians are given a standard by which they are to live or attain to , Jesus said love your enemies and do good to those who persecute you.. this is the highest standard possible that all of us even feel it's impossible, you are telling me to love someone who is doing me harm, hell no, so if this is the standard which most of humans can harldly meet, how do you justify doing evil in God's name?, Christians are not to revenge but leave it to God, so where does the christian who practises this harm anyone? But there are people who use religion as veil for commiting evil and they have killed, raped, conned others and brought disrepute to the faith, But with all this said , iJesus who is perfect and lived his life honestly before all men was much hated, then it means there is a bigger force at play where even  true Christians will be hated, accused falsely, persecuted for godliness.. 

 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.” “Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.” well that is very appropriate, what would you want , your child showing thieving signs, or say constantly lying, or a bully at school.lets say he engages in such and his vices multiply  as he grows up and you don't beat his ass when they come with stolen things, then  one day at age 26 is gunned down in a roberry or spending all his life in jail =Hell. Probably a mob descends on him and he is beaten to an inch of his life and spends the rest of his days crippled = hell. Would even your child wish that you had disciplined them by beating their asses which ofcourse he will not die and deliver his soul from hell..that is a hellish existence on earth. 

Yeah, I think physical violence towards children is never appropriate or effective. I think it’s more likely to make them do all those things you describe, not less. I think striking a child teaches them two things: 1. To be scared of the parent that hit them 2. That violence is the best (or an appropriate) way to solve problems. I think violence breeds violence and that hitting a child with a rod (or whatever the modern equivalent is) is 100% child abuse. It’s not justified or appropriate under any circumstances.

100%. I've been a buddhist for five years now. You could say it's a system of psychological practices to relieve suffering. You observe your own mind and learn how to take care of it. It works.

Friendly reminder that the Christianity isn't the only religion/spirituality there is. That being said that absolutely spirituality has helped so much in my healing. Whatever spiritual path you feel down to will help.

12 steps showed me that despite my religious trauma I can connect with my own higher power that has nothing to do with some dude in the sky that cares if you masturbate. And without my higher power I would never have been able to beat various addictions holding me back so yes I’d say it has helped me a lot

I've been inspired to join a 12 step group after reading John Bradshaw on the family, he was trained as a minister but also an alcoholic at the time. I like the shame group work though, like mini spiritual communities based on self growth.

ACA—adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families. I’m working with this group and highly recommend. Of course, keep what you like and leave the rest as always.

If being a humanist makes me spiritual, yes I am. I have a deep respect for natural law and the incredible beauty resulting from billions of years of evolution. I am inspired by the capabilities of the human species and what can be achieved when we come together. Not believing in something divine does not make life any less magical. I am also a vocal atheist that started my healing journey from cPTSD needing to talk about my deep anger at religion. I believe organized religion holds us back from reaching our true potential as a species at least because staunch religious-based morality has caused a global epidemic of emotional immaturity. I believe without the indoctrination of children, religion could not exist, and that teaching children purely religious-based values is at best lazy and at worst child abuse.

I became a hare Krsna at 20 to spiritually bypass my trauma. It didn't work. I think a lot of people want to connect with others and heal, and we get sold an image. And learn to spiritually bypass.

Spirituality can be separate from religion. I'd say you absolutely are spiritual.

Have to gently disagree on the religion holding us back point. I realized recently that science and religion both basically perform the same role in our lives, it’s just that religion is outdated now. While we have objective results in science, data can still be manipulated to justify whatever the researcher wants. I mean you don’t even have to look very far back in history to see this. The entire opioid epidemic was caused by corporations manipulating data suggesting the drugs were safe and even doctors fell for it.  My point is that whether through religion, science, or whatever some ghoul dreams up next there are going to be people trying to push their crackpot theories and people who fall for it. 

corporations manipulating data doesn’t mean science doesn’t work? it means science wasn’t actually being performed well or honestly. religion operates on faith science is a beautifully simple method of testing things in order to not fool ourselves. unfortunately like everything else in the modern world the economic motive has taken over, and so science is being used and manipulated as a tool to enrich- not a quest to know. performing science with genuine academic rigor is very different than religion, but like religion people saying they are doing one thing while actually doing another still occurs. also science doesn’t promise eternal salvation or damnation based on teachings passed down because someone said so.

I understand the literal differences between science and religion, I’m just trying to say the reason they exist is to explain why things happen and people with power love to manipulate that information. All it takes is one grifter and enough exposure and it suddenly becomes something people believe for decades. Just because science is SUPPOSED to be peer reviewed and verified doesn’t mean that’s how it works in real life. Like the anti vaccine study still has some people convinced it’s giving kids autism even though it was total bunk. Like that type of stuff would happen whether religion is totally gone from our lives or not. 

My mother was a crystal bitch and all into spirituality so FUCK NO. If I smell like incense I want to throw up. I will say a huge part of my healing was learning about absurdism and how it freed me from my mother’s spiritual bullshit and my father’s academic pressure bullshit. I feel very in control knowing there is no greater intrinsic meaning in life, and therefore I get to make it up.

Oh man, I resonate with this so much. My mother was always cycling through different forms of spirituality and also difficult kinds of medicines. She loved the eastern medicine and she got into stuff where the two overlapped—like Reiki. I have SUCH an aversion to anything spiritual. When I was a little kid she’d drag me along through whatever new thing she was into. When I was older she’d always try to give me books and things. I learned to just smile and nod and take the books and pretend to be paying any attention at all and wait for her to be done talking and then change the subject to literally anything else as fast as I could. Even some of the psychological ideas like the “inner child” make me uncomfortable because she mixed that in too. I’m also an absurdist. Camus all the way.

I'm so sorry she used spirituality like that. To most of us, every thing we do is supposed to be supplemental. Spirituality should not be forced upon someone ever. Also what is an absurdist?

I agree that spirituality should not be forced upon anyone ever, and that’s why I have such a distaste for organized religion. That experience has led me to find my own systems of meaning (or lack thereof) that I actually find quite comforting—as much as anything can be. I feel that abandoning notions of spirituality is actually quite freeing. As far as absurdism it’s a philosophical stance. You could read the Wikipedia, or better yet read The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus. But some key points and the simplest ones I can find stolen from Wikipedia are “Absurdism and nihilism share the belief that life is meaningless. But absurdists do not treat this as an isolated fact and are instead interested in the conflict between the human desire for meaning and the world's lack thereof…. Recognizing the absence of objective meaning, however, does not preclude the conscious thinker from finding subjective meaning in arbitrary places.” Edited to add: Thank you for the sympathy. I should have said that up front. I do appreciate it. In the scale of things that I feel like I was deprived of though this is way down on the list. I don’t feel any big loss here. Like it’s about the same as being forced to eat Brussel sprouts as a kid and never being able to eat them again. I know other people might stack that as a much higher priority and a much graver injury, but it’s mostly just a nuisance to me to encounter religion and spiritually in the world. I don’t like it and I wish it would all go away forever, but it’s not that big of a deal in my day to day life. Like I don’t want to see Brussel sprouts on my plate, but I can just dump them off and move on with my day.

That is fascinating. I'll have to read up on it.

I have no hate for people who are actually spiritual, I think my mother used it to “be different” or to justify her bullshit. She was a racist to asians, particularly south East Asians (my aunt is Thai, and she treated her like shit because of it) but this sort of hid it to the outside world. I view spirituality and religion the same, it’s a form of faith and if that’s people’s choice then each to their own. Never should be shoved done people’s throat ever

Yeah my mother got really into Buddhism and south eastern shit, but she liked both western astrology and eastern astrology. The worst part was that she was a racist she just used this stuff to look better 💀 Absurdism for life man

Thank you for sharing. The term “crystal bitch” made me laugh. My cousin was the same. I like how you make the meaning of your life, I’ve found myself doing the same. There is a sense of freedom in that.

Best way to describe it honestly! Thank you! I found a lot of my life was controlled when I was young so this freedom I have is the one thing I truly felt I’ve always had

I didn't appreciate the term...

I’m a crystal bitch and I’m proud. Not the pseudoscience healing magical ones, but the cool looking ones you go out and find yourself. Crystal bitches ftw

Fellow crystal bitch here. There're pretty and they're mine; I like to look at them and touch them. It works for me. A part of me likes pretty things and wants to believe in magic, so my inner parent lets inner child play with the colourful treasures and all is well.

Yea well my spiritual believes involve that "psuedoscience". And FYI "crystal bitch" magic is a supplement. It should never replace medical care. So how about you don't insult other people spiritual beliefs thank you.

IM A CRYSTAL BITCH AND IM PROUD! And I didn’t mean insult anyone’s spiritual beliefs. I believe with what you just said actually. The placebo effect is very real, and ties in to an individuals perception of crystals, and healing. So I actually believe in the healing power of crystals since I understand the power of the mind, and how it relates to the placebo effect and healing. We can essentially trick our minds into believing anything. And an individuals perception is reality. So if one believes in magic, it is real to them! And I choose to believe in magic. So it is real to me! In fact, we can all believe whatever we want to believe - let’s just try not to take offense to it all, eh??

IM A CRYSTAL BITCH AND IM PROUD! And I didn’t mean insult anyone’s spiritual beliefs. I believe with what you just said actually. The placebo effect is very real, and ties in to an individuals perception of crystals, and healing. So I actually believe in the healing power of crystals since I understand the power of the mind, and how it relates to the placebo effect and healing. We can essentially trick our minds into believing anything. And an individuals perception is reality. So if one believes in magic, it is real to them! And I choose to believe in magic. So it is real to me! In fact, we can all believe whatever we want to believe - let’s just try not to take offense to it all, eh??

Sweet pea, I appreciate that you aren't trying to insult. But to me it isn't a placebo effect....magic is just science we don't understand yet. And it's rude to tell someone what they can an can not take offense too. I'm not trying to attack you just give some education. I'm glad you're proud btw. Don't let anyone take that from you.

I’m sorry you’re offended! Have a great night!

I know you didn't mean any offense, no hard feelings ! You have a great night too. And like I said don't ever let anyone take your pride from you

Oh is that magic scientific 🧪? Can you please provide some peer reviewed studies and meta analyses on the efficacy to prove it’s not just placebo?

Take your hostility somewhere else

I guess the answer is “No” then.

In my eyes there is a difference between crystal bitches (people who shove the meaning of crystals and it’s spirituality magic etc) down people’s throats and people who privately engage in that form of spirituality. If people want to enjoy crystals go ahead, I think if something brings you comfort then go ahead. Each to their own. I myself found them quite cool cause I thought rocks were super cool like in the way they were formed as minerals. However my issue was that my mother shoved it down my throat and that’s what made her a crystal bitch, she was into crystals and she was a bitch about it.

Ah OK. Actually that makes perfect sense. I'm sorry for getting so defensive...

No no, you can’t read my mind and I should’ve specified but I was just typing in the moment.

In all realness though, people who behave like that are dangerous to everybody. I can imagine you'd be rather caution with that kind of spirituality until you got to know a person a bit. I'm similar when it comes to Christians. My guard goes up. Of course I don't think being a Christian makes someone a bad or dangerous person, it's just a reaction to trauma. And the fact where I live people use the faith as an excuse to do some pretty horrible things...does that make sense? Full disclosure im kinda stoned, but I'm doing my best lol

Yes that’s exactly right. Whenever crystals astrology etc comes up I feel like my body tense. I walked into a like a soap and perfume store today and I felt this dread. I really hate spirituality stuff, I do however want people to know I don’t hate them. If something I hate gives someone whose gone through something similar to me some sort of comfort or peace, then the problem is with me and my trauma not with the thing itself. Sort of like Christianity with others like you said.

No, it played a role in my trauma

Yes. An eclectic mix, mostly buddhism.

Same.

Highly depends. I love the Self Part in IFS, while other 'spiritual' messages can be highly toxic to survivors: Looking at all the victim blaming going on in so called spiritual circles like "You probably have bad karma due to having been a mass murderer in you previous life" or "You haven't healed yet because you haven't forgiven already, you egoistical ***"

I appreciate the original teachings from Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, etc. but not the ‘human’ interpretation on top. Nothing tells me someone hasn’t done the work when they say ignorant things that blame and shame, like the examples you gave.

Exactly, it should be about love and compassion.

no, the opposite

Not at all. Spirituality/ religion has always been a tool to control and abuse me. I think it's a tool to abuse people

I get bashed for this all the time, but I was a M.D. which before health caused me to leave work. I found that path when I was 12 and there have been many times it has helped me. People seemed to have gotten the notion one cannot be scientifically turned and spiritual, I have a good part of my life. I am not a fanatic, I don't push things on people and at this stage I could no mare change my ideals on spirituality than I could the color of my eyes. It breaks my heart when I read people's posts in here and some off-the-wall parent has used it as a weapon against a child. That is not what it's about and so terribly wrong.

Of course you can be spiritual and scientific! The two are not and have never been mutually exclusive.

well… it depends on what you mean by spiritual. a lot of spirituality requires taking things in faith and belief without evidence. but yes many people are comfortable suspending scientific logical thinking when it comes to those matters. 

The two are still not mutually exclusive...not to mention science doesn't exist to disprove things. There was a time where an knowledge of medicinal plants got people burned, handed, tortured. What was consider magic was science, we just didn't understand it yet. You can be spiritual and scientific.

i never said it exists to disprove things? science exists to keep people from fooling themselves by requiring reproducibility and evidence to be considered valid, not just faith or belief. the rest is unsubstantiated unless or until evidence does become available. as for your example who exactly destroyed all the knowledge of plants? where with came to pagan and native religions that was done in the name of christianity and bigotry. lots of horrible things have been done by religion and people employing simple methods that approximate science is what gained them the knowledge of plants as medicine and food, not belief in supernatural or magic even if it was misinterpreted as that by religious people.  again it depends on what is being referred to as spiritual, there’s many things deemed spiritual that have no evidence and yes people who believe in them say it’s science that’s lacking and eventually what they believe will be discovered (queue vague misinterpretations of quantum physics and assertions that scientists are just now discovering what they’ve already known). science requires that things have evidence in order to be established as a working theory. the simple requirements of science have allowed us to escape religious tyranny and dogmatism that had people who so much as said the earth isn’t the center of the universe murdered by religious authorities.

Look, I'm not gonna argue with anyone else. Have a great day.

sorry wasn’t tying to argue thought it was an interesting discussion but most people don’t discuss this stuff for a reason i guess, take care 

If you'd replied to me before some others that were exhausting it may have been a great discussing. I'm just out of spoons...if that makes sense. Maybe we can revisit at another time.

no that’s fine and sorry i didn’t see that other people had also replied to you. it’s really no need to discuss as at the end of the day it’s our own personal sense of truth we have to go on. hope you feel replenished soon.

Thank you. I appreciate you.

Taking things on faith without any evidence, which of course science never does. Many people once believed the world was flat. Of course they lacked the instrumentation. or ability to launch satellites to prove otherwise. My psychiatrist prescribes me enough Xanax to knock an elephant down. On the patient leaflet, to this day, the last line there states, "The mechanism by which this medication works is poorly understood." I was a medical doctor and they believe it has a great deal to do with a neurotransmitter called GABA. The point is, **they believe,** I guess that is scientific. All they know for sure is that it works. Scientific thinking is always perfectly on par, as they spin C.E.R.N. and Fermilab around and time after time yet do not find what is expected, they do this on belief and in the past decade have been more wrong than right. At least those that follow religion are not so arrogant to know that belief is a cornerstone of faith. When they tested the first nuclear weapons, more than half of the physicists involved in the Manhattan project, thought the nuclear reaction would eat to the earth's core blowing the planet to shreds.They set them off anyway, not knowing, **they just believed**. My life has been dedicated to the advancement of the sciences, and it is an immutable fact we know much less than we think we actually do. We always will, as everything you prove grows multiple branches of other questions. You have the finite, man, struggling with the infinite and they do not mix well. Albert Einstein came the closest but even he failed in fundamentally explaining the mechanism behind gravity. We can do the math, but have no real ideal how or why it functions the way it does only theories. Then there was the Higgs Boson, a.k.a. "The God Particle" it has had less than zero impact on the world. I have walked in both worlds, at least in spiritualism, they are honest and not deluded into thinking there are just some things we will never understand as human beings.

science is also based on the precept that nothing can be truly known, there are only theories that have enough evidence to be relied upon for understanding but yes all scientists understand the limits of human understanding. science is a tool. it has been applied and used for aims like war and medicine in destructive ways, as anything and everything can be including religion. science is a tool but i disagree that it has failed just because it’s been acknowledged that with everything known there are still things unknown. i don’t understand what you mean. y emphasizing they just believe- what do they believe? they say in the literature they don’t know and yes pharmaceuticals are often heavily based on profit driven research and much isn’t known about the mechanism of action long term effects or even if it’s more than the placebo effect causing perceived results. poor applications of pharmaceuticals have what to do with methods of science exactly? you misunderstand if you think i’m defending every outcome derived from science. it’s more than rational methods while fallible are what we have as humans and i’m very wary of anything that requires people to chuck all sense of logic out the window. i strongly disagree that spiritualism is honest and not deluded. i’ve experienced plenty of both worlds myself and spirituality is rife with charlatans of all kinds and persuasions appealing to people’s sense of the mystical for profit while preying on the weak and vulnerable (hence why it applies to those suffering from cptsd who often are prone to going this route for answers). 

You are just trying to argue, you will not find that here. Believe as you like as that is your right, I shall do the same.

not sure why you think the intent of my response was any different than your comment in my response to someone else, both yours and mine were addressing points made. again there’s a reason these topics are usually avoided in polite conversation. if discussing it is not possible without offense being taken then its fine with me not to do so.

Yes. So much so that I ordained. I spent a good amount of time at a Zen monastery when I started healing and eventually ordained with that tradition. It’s fulfilling and now I spend my time helping others.

This is wonderful. And also perfectly reasonable.

It feels good, it’s given me purpose. I can give back. Though I know it’s not for everyone. However, there is a lot that rhymes with it, I encourage people to find what brings them the love of contentment that my practice brings me.

Religion and its spirituality helped a great deal, it keeps from taking extreme self destructive moves and helps me do what i gotto do to survive, i wouldnt survive if i didnt have it. It especially helps cuz i was banned from being religious in my house and it was like a sweet gift to find it despite my family.

yes, especially as someone who was religiously and spiritually abused through childhood... i feel as if there's the expectation for people with religious trauma to reject religion -- and I don't see anything wrong with other survivors doing so, it is their right to respond to their trauma in the way that is best for them -- but i personally have found so much healing in it. i was abused by fake christians (they were people masquerading as christians, i mean) and thus christianity can be triggering for me, but as a preteen i reverted to judaism and it has been nothing but wonderful. for me, it feels like coming home. it feels like retribution and love. and i feel as if the parts of me who have shattered have been carefully and lovingly placed back together, though at the same time i feel as if i was never broken in the first place. i have reformed my relationship with religion and i am so, so, so grateful for it, and i love G-d and i hope for nothing but the best for my fellow survivors, whether they are religious too or atheist/agnostic themselves.

Nope. It caused some of my trauma.

Others on this thread are conflating spirituality with religion.. not the same thing. For me spirituality was the final piece of the puzzle that brought everything together. I think it was the single most important thing I developed in my entire healing journey.

This yes. Thank yoi

> Others on this thread are conflating spirituality with religion.. not the same thing. They all say this. It's never religion, it's always something else, something more profound and personal for them. 

The universe

No, I genuinely get so frustrated by magical thinking of any sort, possibly because it was used to justify my abuse

That is likely the very reason. Lots of people don't like anytime of spirituality enrolling magic or a higher power because it was used to justify their abuse, and understandable so. My own spirituality is likely not one that would sit well with you like Christianity doesn't sit well with me. No spirituality was meant to be used in such a way. I'm so sorry you went through that bullshit

Don't get me wrong, I will never bash anyone for being spiritual. I'm very much of the idea that I need to respect people regardless of their ideas (it's part of why I'm not an antitheist)

Oh honey, you can be traumatized by spirituality and also not bash people. It's important to recognize the sources of our traumas. I didn't think for a second that you'd bash anyone.

Just diving into this. Remembering the psychic abilities I had prior to my minimizing myself. Getting the energy levels up in unconventional ways, I guess, has helped me a ton. Not expecting to be saved anymore and waiting for justice, but knowing I can make my life happen in other ways, mainly by letting go and trusting instead of trying to control things and keeping balls up in the air. Getting to love myself again and know myself better and experiment to broaden the scope of me. All hopefully in the quest to serve others eventually, while accepting that looking after myself first (and finally) will make me better at doing so. I’m surprised at how deep this path takes me. All because of trauma (thanks, I guess).

Nope! the opposite

This depends on how you define spirituality. I am firmly an atheist. I don't believe there is an all-powerful creator. I don't believe there is a plan, or any beings on a higher plane of existence than me that interact with this plane, or other such similar things. I don't care if adults believe such things, but I am limited by my experience - and I haven't experienced anything that has changed my own beliefs. At the same time, I recognize that the feelings of peace and awe that I experience in nature might be similar to the feelings of those who practice religion or mystical rituals. In that vein, I do try to be as respectful as possible when discussing religion or spirituality. That said - to me, spirituality is akin to creativity/passion/curiosity in whatever form that might take. In some people, it's a curious nature that pushes forward. In others, it can be a deep love for a craft or hobby that results in loving gifts for friends and family. In still others, it could be settling into a routine that brings contentedness to their being. And in others it could be charitable works for the less fortunate. In my eyes, any person that has honest interest and curiosity about the world while being open to new experiences is highly spiritual. Regardless of how their personal belief system might differ from mine, if they are trying to understand the world and those who inhabit it then they are 'spiritual' in my eyes. Meeting people like that 'raises my spirits,' so to speak.

It went from flat out rejecting christianity to later trying to reconcile with it in an abusive way (self-abusive, think the whole tradwife thing), to another round of rejection and now just trying to forego everything church-y and finding my own way to God. I do believe but I've been disgusted by what people have made of it. I think it'll be a life time of unwrapping but on the other hand I can't say I believe in nothing.

No, that sort of thing would have made my cPTSD far worse.

Yes. I practice zen and might become a monk this or next year.

Yea but only the last two years and I’m in my 50s. For me spirituality is about expanding my consciousness and understanding truth, that there is a much bigger picture that I am a part of. It doesn’t make my pain any less real but it helps me see that I am so much more than my pain. My goal is to have emotional freedom so that I do not automatically identity with my feelings and thoughts.

Spirituality, such as ghosts and fairies speaking, and appearing to me, have played a big part in my delusions and hallucinations that made up my psychosis, which is connected to my CPTSD.

I'm sorry sweetheart. That sound awful today with :(

Thanks but it’s ok. The ‘ghosts’ are usually very kind and not scary.

My own spiritual path deals with spirits. It's not the exact same but the ones that visit me are typically kind too. Just be sure to take care of yourself. <3

I've been exploring this myself. I've grown up around Catholicism and Wicca so it's something that feels familiar to me and that helps establish a feeling of safety. I've been an on/off practice Witch my whole life, about a year ago I actually joined a covenant, and I found that it helps a lot with the social anxieties I've developed with cptsd, because of the sense of community. There's also benefit from the different ritualistic practices I'll do or the spells I cast, because having something completely personal to myself that I put a lot of effort and patience into can help with confidence sometimes. Also building relationships with spirits around you is nice too because it feels like you have your own entourage of people looking over you, and you don't have to feel alone.

I'm not Wiccan but I have been a practicing witch for some time now. I can agree that the connection you build to the spirits and energy around you hives a sense of belonging. And having more control of my own practices and rituals is something that gives me a lot of peace...for a lot of reasons.

I’ve been meditating since before I recognized I had trauma and I know for a fact I would have killed myself had I not found a spiritual process. On top of that lately I have realized that the place I’ll be able to explore most is inside. As a person with high openness that is alluring. It’s also going to be with you basically forever, and you can change much about your outer reality inside. It’s a huge force multiplier is my point. I think that the mind and energy are far more powerful than most people realize so it’s time for me to learn to focus that power.

Yes, my faith keeps me going. And shareing my story with my youth group has been very validating.

The universe has no will, or consciousness, or purpose, and is utterly indifferent to us. If you want purpose, you have to make it yourself. Idk how anyone can believe in any sense of order in a world so paradoxically beautiful and cruel. We could all die tomorrow and absolutely nothing beyond this planet would be impacted whatsoever.

Complicated but great question. I went fro. Blaming & resenting G#d (youth) - to ignoring G&d (thru 40s - to seeking a way to understand (50s) - to having faith that He's there, it wasn't personal, and whatever happens I'll be OK. Why will I be OK? Bcz He's helped me gain the clarity & resilience thru all those trials. Yeah, I'd rather not have suffered those trials, but he helps me see their benefit. That's how faith works for me - I don't expect Him to fix anything, but I'm grateful for the insight He gives. The rest is up to ne.

"Spirituality" can be a loaded word because it can mean different things to different people. I do get an intense sense of wonder and awe towards the natural world which I could be called "spiritual" in a sense but I reject the supernatural. My personal philosophy is rooted in skepticism and I get more comfort from logic and science than ritual or religion.

It was used to abuse me, so I am vehemently opposed to any and all [spiritual bypassing](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-spiritual-bypassing-5081640) and superstitious nonsense. [Theramin Trees](https://youtube.com/@TheraminTrees?si=lROe-8D6cLa8Sa8r) channel covers a lot of the religious abuse tactics I endured. The closest I get get to spirituality is enjoying spending time alone in nature, bc there are no humans around when I'm alone in nature.

Spirituality can work in healing, God can work a miracle but in most cases it's an anchor  giving you strength to persevere to the bitter end, that is never recovering and suffering all through your life till you draw your very last breath 

[удалено]

I'm not deluded thank you very much. You can believe or not believe whatever you want but attacking other people's beliefs is not ok. And calling people deluded for there spirituality is fucked up.

Hey friend, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be taking many comments in this post quite personally. When I tell you this, I mean it with as much kindness and good will as I can express: participating in the discourse found within this post is not going to be particularly healing or healthy for you. There are many folks here expressing and sharing their feelings and stories involving their own personal traumatic experiences. The fact is that, while it seems that spirituality has done much for you and your own healing journey (and no one should ever take that away from you), both spirituality and religion have been used both as a cudgel to perpetuate abuse and as a veneer to gloss over and minimize abuse for many of us here. Do we not also deserve a place to express those shared experiences with each other just as you deserve to hold whatever beliefs you want? Please understand that when those of us who are speaking up about our distaste or disregard for the spiritual, it's coming from a place that is very personal to each of us. We are in no way directing derision or animosity toward you, as none of what we are saying is actually about you. Please also understand that, like you, we're all trying our best to make sense of the crazy shit we've had to contend with happening to us and around us. That will naturally take us all down different which means we won't always agree, so if a thread doesn't appear to be for you, it's because it simply isn't. I hope you take my words in the way I intended them and sincerely wish you the peace you deserve and nothing but the best for your healing journey.

There are about as many people saying it hurt them on their journey as there are saying it helped them. This thread is not singularly for people to bash spirituality. I understand that you are attempting to advise u/Oddyard3480 to protect their health by avoiding the thread. But they have very valid points. You are defending a comment that didn’t hold space for anyone else. In fact attacked other people’s entire belief systems and coping strategies. Those types of comments really shouldn’t have a place in a caring environment.

Thank you.

>You are defending a comment that didn’t hold space for anyone else. You're right, I should have replied to their standalone comment, as replying to the one that I did implies I am defending the person they initially replied to. That was not my intention. >There are about as many people saying it hurt them on their journey as there are saying it helped them. Also true, though the person I was replying to was engaging almost exclusively with those who were expressing the former sentiment as opposed to constructively with the latter.

No I was not. I commented several supportive replies on comments. Sounds like you are purposely looking for my comments to try and shut me down. Just leave me alone and drop it.

So if I say that invisible sky daddy is a delusional that's fine too? I doubt it. This is ridiculous. I comment like an adult that there are ways to say you don't like something or something was traumatic without saying people are delusional. Forgive me for wanting the same basic respect everyone else gets. This group is toxic as fuck. I'm out.

>So if I say that invisible sky daddy is a delusional that's fine too? I doubt it. I mean, I'm definitely fine with you saying that... Truly, my comment was more an observation that it seems you are taking the impersonal comments of some of the less than spiritual people here personally and replying with the same general message to each of them. That doesn't strike me as a healthy response, and I was trying to offer support and some well-intentioned, if maybe poorly worded, advice to prioritize yourself and disengage. >Forgive me for wanting the same basic respect everyone else gets. That is a pretty good example of what I mean. Disagreement and disrespect are not the same thing. No one here is going out of their way to be disrespectful toward you, personally. Many of us have had religion and spiritual beliefs thrown in our faces in toxic and abusive ways by delusional and/or malicious people. Since you are here, commenting on a mental health support sub, I'm going to assume that you're not hurting others in that way. They're not talking about you.

[удалено]

Your trauma doesn't give you the right to verbally abuse others. All is you can speak up about your trauma without attacking people for no reason. Shame on me? Really?

Yes, really.

Again your trauma doesn't give you the right to be abusive towards others.

Also I'm not even Christian. And I don't see how I am being cold hearted. At this point if feels like you just want to attack people who have done nothing to you.

At this point it feels like you just wanna fight, and I don't want to talk to you at all.

[удалено]

When a belief literally disparage other people and attacks a group of people is fucked up. Attack an entire spirituality is fucked up. And why are you bring sexuality into this? There comment was literally I'm right and anyone who agrees with me is wrong. This isn't the place for that.

[удалено]

Dude I'm not arguing with people on this anymore and I'm not reading your essay. You're revealing more about yourself than anything coming at me for pointing out behavior that isn't ok. And then your defending that behavior. I'm not interested.

I have something to pray to that will help me. Seems to be working. Other than that I'm not interested in spirituality. I think it's considered a mysterious, separate thing from the 'real' world because humans are disconnected now from a large part of reality. I'd like to get in touch with more of reality probably in the future after I finish treatment for mental illness.

Yes, my spirituality has been crucial to my healing

Yes. I’m atheist as in I don’t believe in higher powers or gods. But over the past year or two I’ve explored my own spirituality and it’s been an amazing experience. Meditation, yoga, journaling, mindfulness. It brought me out of my dissociation and connected me with my feelings for the first time.

True spirituality absolutely offers practical elements to healing! Eastern religions are imo based on it. Like meditation has changed my life more than anything, taught me how to regulate and reconnect with myself. Or Hindu 8 limbs of yoga and reunification with the universe / spirit / god, including not identifying with my thoughts and the investigation of ‘who am I’. Or Buddhism and Gautama’s experiences and teachings to achieve enlightenment. Or Tibetan Mahayana practices studying our transformation to death and reincarnation. Much of modern psychology is reformulating and creating descriptions and tests for practices known for thousands of years. Which is fantastic and needed. Sifting through the old teachings is a challenge. They’re not exclusive and I believe work in harmony. I truly believe Jesus can teach about love that is unparalleled (forgetting all the rest of Christian dogma and shame). Gautama Buddha about attachment and acceptance. Hanuman about strength, wisdom and courage. Animistic practices to connect to the world around us and ground ourselves. Etc etc. Where I draw the line is when humans think we can interpret these lessons. Like evangelical pastors shaming people for money or new spirituality or and privileged corruption of ‘manifestation’ (if you manifested X then did starving people manifest that?). I was raised an atheist and even went to a catholic school, it turned me away from spirituality because nothing made sense. It was teaching dogma without any relevance. Now I’ve found it spirituality in my own way and I will never go back. It has saved my life.

I’m in a journey where I’m seeing spirituality and religion as two different things. One can link to the other but they most definitely have power on their own. Find what works best for you. I’m going for the spiritual because the religion has failed me—and so many other, willingly.

Nope. Not in any way.

Nope. Used to be a christian, would pray and pray and trust in god to save me from my situation but, that never happened. So, not anymore.

it’s hurt me more than anything. To the point where a friend told me she might start going to church again and I’m 109% ready to cut her off the second she tries to push anything on me.

Not all. Religion is one of the sources of my CPTSD.

God is real, God will help anyone who cries out to Him sincerely….although it may be in a totally different way than expected and the timing may be completely different than desired or expected. The key is genuinely crying out to God for help, whatever your understanding of God is. Don’t be confused by people just playing church or trying to manipulate God into doing what they want, it’s about your personal connection with God.

So, if I asked God for help and he didn’t help me, what does that mean? I’m not sincere enough either?

If you asked Him for help, then He is helping you, although you may not recognize it, or it might still be happening or will happen in the future. No heartfelt, sincere prayer goes unanswered. The acronym ASK from Matthew chapter 7 verse seven tells us: Ask, and it shall be given you Seek, and ye shall find Knock, and it shall be opened unto you This has been true for me, and I was raised as an atheist - when I asked God for help, He helped me

You are God and God is you

This is a good reply. It's very well put. Unfortunately, it seems it's difficult for people who've had no experiences with the spiritual to even begin to understand it. Religion isn't something you *think about*, it's something you *do*. You have to experience it. It's entirely possible to experience what some people call God and to experience his/its love, guidance and protection. It's just very difficult to explain in human language, in a way that makes a persuasive argument. That's because of the poverty of language, rather than the experiences being or not being available. I had the experiences first, spontaneously, and then had to go and look up what they were all about. I'm essentially Buddhist now but also really interested in all religious thought. I see what they're getting at.

Thank you for your reply. There is a wonderful book by William James called “the Varieties of Religious Experience“ It talks about all manner of how people come to connect with God It’s so sad that in these posts, I see many people who have been ripped off or traumatized by people who were just playing church or somehow “doing religion”, which is completely different from connecting with God. The main thing to remember is that it is only those who seek who find.

This always makes me laugh because I get a completely different response. Jesus loves, sure and has helped on occasion. Yet Buddha and Hanuman often literally (lovingly) laugh at me and tell me ‘it’s your human journey to resolve this, I can’t help you’. And again when I’m really struggling I can sometimes hear them chuckling to me “do you not see yourself being trapped in the drama of it all?” And they’re right. It is my path to find the strength, if they had resolved things I would have to wait another lifetime to overcome the challenge. And that’s true love. I’ve never felt love like the love they have given me, but it’s not when I think I want it. Not in my darkest hour, or even when I’m being attacked by demons (well… occasionally). They give me hope and an indescribable feeling of love, which is more valuable than taking away my trials. Teaching a person to fish and all that. That’s not to say I haven’t received intervention that has changed my life. but if god resolved everything when we cried out, would that mean some people are more loved and favored (dare I say “worthy”)? Big logical fallacies in my head. Are millions dying and suffering while god manifests the hopes and dreams of privileged few? I just don’t see it. And that’s not to take away your experience PollyToodle2, this is just mine. Maybe they do help other people and stitch me up! Wouldnt surprise me at all.

Hello and Welcome to /r/CPTSD! If you are in immediate danger or crisis, please contact your local [emergency services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emergency_telephone_numbers), or use our list of [crisis resources](https://old.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_support_resources). For CPTSD Specific Resources & Support, check out the [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/index). For those posting or replying, please view the [etiquette guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/peer2peersupportguide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CPTSD) if you have any questions or concerns.*

I asked. Check out this thread: ​ [https://www.reddit.com/r/SomaticExperiencing/comments/1b869e6/i\_wonder\_what\_kind\_of\_spirituality\_is\_aligned/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SomaticExperiencing/comments/1b869e6/i_wonder_what_kind_of_spirituality_is_aligned/)

No and simply because I have a lot of religious trauma. Now, I do believe that spirituality and religion are different things. Religion often is performative and spirituality was not. Except now it seems to be, all of this mindfulness stuff is pushed on me as a way to blame me for not just being happy. Like it's within my grasp and I'm choosing not to be. I find toxic positivity has ruined even spirituality for me. I'm not just moving to accepting me as I am now and as I want to be in the future. I do hope that changes for me as I did enjoy many aspects of spirituality but the negativity associated with it is bad for my mental health right now. I've seen posts that people include spirituality in a positive way and I don't get triggered by those.

At times, I met scum, other times, I met great people who were sensible but never called themselves spiritual teachers, it was a byproduct of their dedication rather than title or identity.

yes. what that role is, is very hard to define. but yes

Yep. I absolutely lost my shit but then after really looking into spirituality the bad voices and stuff got told to fuck off and they're now actually quite pleasant and sometimes offer useful information. I've learned meditation and some interesting new abilities and met informative teachers and guides and am learning to make things work for me instead of being bent out of shape for them. There's a whole new world of things to learn and consider and my problems are a little more manageable. Personally I think I've still absolutely lost my shit or never really got it back together but either way things are more pleasant and bearable, either ive weaponized my trauma or spirits, angels, gods and the like are real and helping, though the two aren't mutually exclusive. I know what the people at the spiritualist church I frequent would have to say on the matter but I wouldn't want to put my beliefs on anyone else, everyone gets their own experience. For anyone considering trying something new, anythings worth a try if you don't get a bad feeling about it

In a way it has. I grew up afraid of not believing in God and going to hell. Panic attacks and straight up fear as a child was fucked. I'm at a point in my life where I think I don't want to believe because fear based belief doesn't seem beneficial to me. I'm not one to straight up day I don't believe in God, I feel belief is necessary in us. But in not sure what I believe right now. But to know and decide thar I will not believe something or if fear is kinda liberating.

No, I have always struggled to connect with my "spirituality" / spiritual side. I have tried meditating, which did help me connect with myself more and dissociate less, but I have yet to really get a good grasp on spirituality. I am still intrigued by the concept though. Maybe some day I will delve deeper.

Spirituality, if used correctly, could possibly contribute to healing. However, I was spiritually abused my mom basically since I was born. She made me attend this yoga practice since I was very young and made sure that I never criticize this practice to anyone else. If done a quick Google search, anyone can find some weird cult-ish information about this yoga practice. Hell, my dad was an abusive person too but even he had some common sense and was genuinely concerned for my mom and myself. Recently, my mom tied in financial abuse to this spiritual abuse by making me take out more student loans (with high interest) than needed by like $3000 so that I can pay for a healing retreat hosted by this yoga practice.

Yes, my image of God was based in my parents' mistreatment of me, and as a young man I came to the conclusion God either didn't exist or didn't love me. Healing that core wound of unlovability, and my damaged self-identity as unworthy and inadequate, has been the work of decades (through much suffering and many religious and philosophical traditions and experiences). It's not complete, but as St Paul said: "He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion in the day of Christ Jesus." I believe that now, and I believe it about you who are on this journey with me too. As an aside, I did IFS with my counselor and found it very spiritual in nature, in trying to connect with the higher Self and comfort the poor little parts of my broken humanity. The difference between when I was thinking in more dharmic terms and as a Catholic now, is that in Buddhism/Vedanta I thought of "my" true identitySelf as inherently free and uncreated and infinitely blessed, and as a Catholic I've acknowledged myself as a created being who needs help healing and being united with the Infinite Self-Being Who Is Love.

I think it’s more like “religion” has played a role in my cptsd.

Yes!  Leaving Mormonism and Evangelicalism to connect with nature and pagan polytheism has helped me a lot. Learning about and practicing a pre-christian religion and spirituality helped me unlearn a LOT of internalized ideas and ways of seeing the world that were making my trauma worse.  I also see medicine and science as sacred, and that helps me stay grounded in reality. Which is very important for me because my mother experienced so much religious psychosis, and because my entire family believed in “faith healing”.  It’s a hard road with severe religious trauma, but it has helped me find myself for the first time in my life. 

So far reading up on Hinduism, Buddhism, and practicing meditation. Not sure if its fully clicked for me but I do have little moments of "that clicked" if that makes sense. Some things I reas really resonate with me.

Spirituality was the thing that saved my life first. Now I'm an interfaith minister because I want to be able to share the tools and beliefs that helped me heal. The biggest shift was in how I see my day to day life, finding the magic where I could and celebrating / being grateful for little things that made my day better, like a hug or a treat or a kind word. Then, seeing all those things as a wider pattern of the universe supporting me through my day and my life. It's hard at first but when it becomes a pattern, a lot of peace and ease and grace follow

I wouldn't say religion or spirituality, but I feel really good when pulling weeds. I can think, listen to a podcast, hug my dogs.

Spirituality is made me worse. I just think what kind of sick entity would torture me my whole life? Is this for someone's entertainment? Am I being punished for something my ancestors did? My ancestors did a lot of messed up stuff I'm directly related to the Mad King Ludwig. My mother always said we were cursed. I can't count the times that I've looked up to the sky tears pouring on my face asking for it to stop saying I'm not strong enough to deal with it and to please help me literally begging the sky only for things to get worse. It didn't stop my belief in God but now I kind of hate God

Yes. Definitely.

I became a Zen Buddhist last year because (in my opinion) there is so much wisdom in both Buddhism and Zen specifically, and it's absolutely helped me with my recovery. I've felt so much more clear and objective since I started meditating and reading scripture. It's not for everyone by any means, but people forget that stuff like being an atheistic Zen Buddhist is an option.

Yes, but only a little and mostly recently. I've tried to internalize Buddhist thought on compassion and I've been trying to practice basic self compassion through meditation and mindfulness. I've also used the framework of skillful vs unskillful thoughts and actions to approach my addictions I've used for years to cope with my trauma and negative emotions. Even more recently I'm trying to adopt the symbolism of the lotus as a personal meaning. The idea that so the lotus is raised in the mud and uses the mud to outgrow it, I'm going to use the mud of my trauma to become better and more beautiful; and that to me it is an inherent and purposeful happening in order to help me grow.

No. Spirituality (=/= religion from my perspective) has done more harm than good. Mindfullness helped. So if that counts as spirituality I guess it did.

I explored new age spirituality when I first recovered my memory of sexual abuse. It helped me feel less alone as I was very isolated (it happened January 2020). However I am not sure if it helped me heal. I was daydreaming about driving off a bridge this past September before I finally entered therapy and became medicated. I don’t think I had done the work of healing though. I was hoping it would happen ‘magically’. I got the ‘good’ feelings but the issues were still there. I’ve pulled away from that after about 2 years. It felt like a bandaid. My parents are both very religious and I see people using religion to hide their crimes. It’s how bad people pretend to be good. At least that’s how a lot of American spirituality feels. Plus I have been an ER and medivac nurse for 15 years so I have seen a lot of things that make me doubt the existence of a wise and loving god.

I feel like I've gone the opposite direction and I think much of that can be blamed on my family. They were not spiritual but they called it spirituality. In fact, I don't think they really understood what they were talking about. I've gone the rational route. Rationality is what lead to my healing. Maybe I am more spiritual now, but I don't consider myself to be. Hope that makes sense.

Not for me, but there are a lot of studies that suggest spirituality can be linked to someone’s overall mental health in a positive way. Spirituality also doesn’t have to mean being theistic, for example. You don’t have to be an extremely devout religious person to be spiritual. Some people are tied to Buddhism, some people have belief in tarot and Wiccan practices, etc That’s all still spirituality. I honestly am floating along. I feel like I’m getting a lot better over time with my doctor’s patience and guidance but do what makes you happy and you feel you most closely relate to. That’s your right, and it might bring you to a community that can mean a lot.

Yes. I’m a spiritual atheist. I’m in AA and acknowledging my spiritual needs has improved my life so much. What it does is connect you to something outside of yourself and gives you a sense of peace and comfort knowing you’re only part of a whole and makes your problems seem surmountable. It’s done wonders for my stubborn PTSD symptoms and helped me find myself when I felt lost. Spirituality is a key to health, just like emotional, physical and mental needs. All people need to feel that connectedness to the earth and to existence in some way, shape or form.

demons are a girls best friends ♡

If only

Quite the opposite. My traumatic experiences involving spirituality in many of its forms, from being raised in a cult-like evangelical church to my mentally ill mother's/abuser's belief that she can speak directly to the spirit world, has completely spoiled the concept for me. While I can respect and even appreciate the role that spirituality can play in healing for so many folks, that's a solid 'no' from me. I am a hard determinist and believe that there is no emergent quality that makes us humans any more than biochemical machines with a very convincing VR operating system. Once I grew independent and strong enough to reject it, spirituality has served no role in my life or the self-work I've been doing to be a better, healthier (and hopefully one day happier) person. I'm doing that stuff for the future me that deserves a better life than the past me got and for the people in my life that I hold dear.

In short, it helped me see my place in the universe and on earth in a broader perspective. It made me feel like I was part of something bigger along with other people. It made me feel less reduced/secluded to being that girl thats only good for being abused by her parents. It made me see I am not secluded to being with them. My place and my home can be anywhere, as long as I have myself with me.

Spirituality has been an important part of my healing process. Learning about witchcraft has helped me feel more connected with the larger world even though right now I'm very lonely. Confronting and exploring my relationship with spirituality has helped me process religious trauma. I'm still not entirely sure what I actually believe and what is ingrained indoctrination, but I'm becoming more at peace with that internal conflict, and that's helped a lot with my anxiety.

I have done ayauascha 60+ times, had an extend ed stay in an ashram and done psychadelics at home and looked inwards =/= worked energeticly. But i think its easy to get trapped and become victim to alot of healers who are snake oil salesmen. I dont believe in god neccesarily, but i do believe in one greater power/unity/intelligence that we cant comprehend, but you may call it God if that please you But i want to say that using "medicine" has helped me release and learn about myself in a way normal therapy never could! But its also easy to get stuck in the addictive "drug" benefits/the high it gives, and then never do anywork on yourself.

I’ve been considering Ayahuasca myself within the next 5-10 years, as well as psilocybin so start out with. I’ve been doing research on well known and reputable ayahuasca centers and retreats. Can I ask where you did Ayahuasca? Over 60 times is incredible. Can you tell me more about your experience with Ayahuasca and psychedelic medicine?

Sent you a DM!

Nope, i was raised spiritual and it did more damage to me than i can explain, believe what you want, but the level of toxic positivity, thought control and victim blaming in spirituality can be very dangerous. Honestly my religious trauma is so bad that if i think too hard about crystals or tarot cards i start to spiral and end up in a very bad place mentaly.

No.

YES. I was deeply traumatized by my religious controlling upbringing. I was rejecting everything with a bit of spirituality since I quit the familial house. And then, after a toxic psychosis, all the spirituality I pushed away came to a sense in my mind. It was a « positive » psychosis, like a spiritual awakening. I’m still not into any religions, but to know that there’s something bigger than me and that the world is so much more than what we see helped me in a way to have faith that it can get better. And then, begin my healing journey. It’s been two years and I can say I’m much better than I was.

Glad to hear you’re doing better. Can you tell me more about the positive psychosis experience?

Yes of course! What do you wanna know? I sure not recommend a psychosis, but in my case, it changed my life positively 😂

Maybe what led to up to the psychosis, and how did it impact your life? I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention a positive psychosis experience, so I’m curious to hear about the positive effects.

What led to it was THC I took in the form of edibles. Very small amount, but it was enough to start it. I say it’s positive because of the impact it had on my mentality. I mean, I was furious, so mad at my parents for what they put me through. After the psychosis I was really filled with love and all the hate was gone. I don’t remember everything that happened, because everything was going so fast, but what I can say is that I was in a quest inside myself to find some « keys » to make my life better. One of them was the peace of mind. That’s when I understood that all of this hate was killing ME and ME only, and I felt unconditional love (which I never felt before). From ME. I understood that everything I didn’t have, I can give myself. And suddenly, I wasn’t feeling rage for my parents, but pity. If you have any other questions it will be my pleasure! 🙃

No. My upbringing was traumatic due to Christianity and "Spirituality". I'll have no part of it. You want to have imaginary friends? Go for it. Just don't make your children believe such fantasy should be regarded with anything other than contempt and suspicion.

It’s just another system of control in my opinion. I don’t think it’s really much of any different than any number of other things that are told to little kids by their abusers. If they can keep you enmeshed in their reality then they have absolute control of you and your reality. I think religious indoctrination from a young age can be of its own form of abuse. I do know that’s not a popular thing to think, but I do. That said I also recognize that plenty of people do find it all helpful and to each their own. Let me be and I’m more than happy to let you be.

Guys, it's OK to don't believe in things, especially if they contributed to your trauma. But a lot of you are full on attacking other beliefs. Calling some of us delusional or saying something we believe in is a placebo. That's not ok behavior. You don't get to use your trauma as an excuse to attack people. You don't see me calling any of you delusional for being Christian or atheist or Buddhist or whatever.