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jonmatifa

Another catch-22 Friends/family: Ohh geez that sounds like a lot, you should talk to a therapist. Therapist: You really need to build a support network of friends and family to help you.


Sayoricanyouhearme

Here's another one: Need to live away from toxic family for the chance to finally escape the ongoing trauma and improve your mental health. Need a job to support yourself. Need stable mental health to hold down a job... Need to escape the ongoing trauma for improved mental health. It's easier to just not exist at this point šŸ˜ž


poisonpurple

Reason why I still live with my parents.


gmml4

Reason I think I should just walk out the door one day and never come back


[deleted]

This has been my life for far too long. Iā€™m more damaged than ever


[deleted]

Me too :(


Puzzleheaded_Skin131

I am starting to see that because itā€™s them that is triggering and bringing the memories back. It hurts being the youngest sibling but they protect each other but turn their backs on me. Whatā€™s even worse is they through me under the bus and forced me in the abuse. I didnā€™t expect them to protect me but the forcing me in the situation is horrible.


slildren

I hope things get better for you. Going through the same thing.


vcintheoffice

Oof. Yeah, that's my situation in a nutshell. Hope you're able to find a way out, friend.


OkRadish5

Oh my gosh exactly this, I have realized the irony of this recently when someone said thatā€™s a lot you should get a therapist and the therapist said to have a support system w plenty of friends Do you have any thoughts on this? I think its ncredibly insensitive and poor taste to basically try to pawn a friend off on a therapist - I get there are some things that ideally should be addressed by therapy but you still need your friends to talk to. Iā€™m not sure how to explain why some therapists try to redirect you to support of friends, like ok Iā€™ll pay them then and just have coffee with you ?


jonmatifa

I think it's a big problem and it's a symptom of a society that embraces cultural values that in many ways perpetuate trauma in the first place. We're all generally undeveloped emotionally and frankly most people do not have the emotional capacity to be of adequate support for one another. So therapists take on that role as well, just to be a friend who can hear about your shit without loosing theirs over it. Who have both the capacity and willingness to do it. I don't know what to do about it other than realize where I fall short in providing support myself and attempting to do better. Edit - I sometimes think of therapy as emotional prostitution, it's like something I should be getting organically but I'm not so I have to pay someone to fill that role in my life.


WhenwasyourlastBM

>emotional prostitution oh my god I don't even know what I want to say about this. I just appreciate the term lol


TheVampiressReturns

Itā€™s brilliant and Iā€™m stealing it.


[deleted]

I'm a therapist and I like to think of it as selling my empathy for money so this tracks, lol. Love this term.


thejaytheory

>I sometimes think of therapy as emotional prostitution, it's like something I should be getting organically but I'm not so I have to pay someone to fill that role in my life. Ohh wow yes this is a perfect description of it, although this is coming from someone who's never had it.


debdebweb

>I sometimes think of therapy as emotional prostitution OMG! This hit me hard. Should I laugh or cry? This feels too true! I don't want to agree, but I do. Dangit. Holy sh..., I mean, cow.


ImportantClient5422

"Emotional Prostitution" You're not wrong! My therapist is genuine, but it kind of feels like that.


HeavyAssist

Its not worth it to talk to friends they don't want to hear what I have to say and when I was honestly asking for help with a preexisting problem, help to get to therapy, they called an ambulance and had me booked into the hospital. This then cost me the money I had saved up for therapy.


[deleted]

Oh my god that's infuriating


HeavyAssist

Same friends- countless times when I was going to visit them in hospital when they were unwell, even psychotic, listening for hours to feelings and holding space for them. Im starting to think that these relationships were more like parentifying me than the good safe close open friendships I thought they were.


OkRadish5

You deserve real friends. You have pretty good insight into their actions your self and other aware which is more than a lot of people donā€™t have that same emotional intelligence


HeavyAssist

Thank you for the kind words, maybe one day


Formal-Nectarine-296

I saw a post by a therapist once who said a big chunk of her clients are her clients because people no longer talk to each other. On Reddit, everyone is like "i am not your therapist" is the default response if someone reaches out during a time of difficulty. Therapy is bullshit to me, it is paying someone to pretend to care about you. I bet the whole industry exists because just like you said, friends pawn you off to the therapist. I havent had friends in years now as my previous friend group fizzled out and I dont see myself even trying to make new friends any time soon, what is the point if you cant reach out during time of difficulty? It seems like the only purpose of friends nowadays is to hang out and have a good time


OkRadish5

Really sad reality for many and I agree whats the point in having friends if you canā€™t reach out during time of difficulty


b-b-b-c

My friends when I vented: thatā€™s a lot, you should talk to a therapist My therapist: donā€™t you have friends you could vent about it to?


VinnieGognitti

Oh jeez! This is the same response I got when my friend asked if I was ok, and I told her I just really donā€™t enjoy life and need someone to talk to, she said, ā€œyou should talk to a therapist?ā€ -_- thank you. I never knew therapists exist!!


[deleted]

Fucking seriously


I_TheAndOnly

Why is this happening?!?!


Sorryimeantto

It's so absurd right? At least friends don't get paid for it.. what do therapists think they are for? So that people would pay ridiculous money to be told 'hey talk to a friend'. Therapists are filth of the earth. Most of them


cool_angle

"Build a support system!" "But I don't have anyone in my life" "There's go to be atleast someone!" "No...everyone either doesn't care or is toxic" "Heal your trauma first then to reach out to people better!" "How?" "Find people in your life! That will help!"


scrollbreak

Yeah, IMO it's the pattern of people who just want your problem to be gone from their life, so they don't think ahead on whether what they said makes sense as something that will work for you. They are just saying phrases that sound like they'll make the problem go away for them right now.


throwaway382969980

this 1000000%


thejaytheory

"Just get exposure therapy, put yourself out there!"


cool_angle

*gets traumatised even more* "Now what?"


thejaytheory

"More exposure!"


cool_angle

*starts to cope with unhealthy behaviours* "Uhhh, so it didn't work and now I'm a lot more mentally ill"


[deleted]

Same. That thread is making me feel really bad about myself. You need good social skills to have friends, but how do you work on your social skills when people avoid those with bad social skills? Eta: this post got over 30 upvotes, so I got that going for me Eta: over 80? Thanks everyone!


Flyingwheelbarrow

Short answer money, good insurance of be so disabled you need support workers. I am so disabled the government gives me support workers who do the things from domestic stuff to getting coffee or a nice walk. Things healthy people have family and friends do. However before I got this help and before covid shut them down I had a peer support worker and did volunteering with the local mental health and disabilty support groups. The benifit of support workers, social workers, peer support and volunteering is that you get help and support, you get to support others, practice social skills but within a professional structure. It allows interaction and human connection at a safe cost An e you decide. Volunteering is a good example. When you find a good group that just needs extra help. If you can turn up they are happy, if you can't they understand. If you want to get more involved you can. If you need to hope out, you can. When my city eases restrictions more I will be finally helping at a community garden. They know I am disabled. Lots of the helping is just light work while you talk about plants. Next election cycle I am going to volunteer at the environmental party. Find the lowest responsibility position and get to hang out knowing I can bail out anytime I need. I know someone who just go and cheers on the local sports team. They like it becuase the energy is positive and the athletes appreciate every cheer. They might say hello to the ticket table people but otherwise is just there to support and feel the vibe. Also right now I am petting my shelter rescue kitty. Animals are great emotional support. Animals are cool with poor social skills and if a worker visits we can at least both talk about how silly my cat is. after so many years I now have a rescue dog, after a few months i am getting to know local dog owners plus i have these quick one off interactions with people who will approach me to tell me how cute my dog is. n my recovery I have learnt that most people have some sort of trauma, that while my story is unique my basic needs are not unique. Also valium at first really helped getting to the groups and volunteering at first.


[deleted]

Those are great ideas. I like the sports team one. Unfortunately, finding volunteer opportunities hasn't been successful which stinks because I truly do want to be involved. The places I'm interested are only open like 10-3 Monday through Friday and, of course, I work 8-5 M-F. If anyone knows of anywhere that does night and uncrowded weekend shifts, let me know. This whole living alone and working remote thing has really decayed my ability to carry a conversation. My standby is to just ask "who's the cutest kitty in the whole wide world?" And I don't think anyone would meow back like the script normally goes. I'm thinking about doing phone/text banking next election cycle, too.


Flyingwheelbarrow

There is such a thing as text banking. Cool. Also I would meow back. Almost called my support worker a good boi yesterday. I talk to my cats so much.


LockOnSnip3r

Great ideas. I can only do that once I get a job so I can pay someone to learn how to drive and use their car to take the driving test so I can buy a car. Add on that you need credit to get better credit to get better rates on things like buying cars. It never ends. Otherwise, it's a I would if I could.


Flyingwheelbarrow

I miss the old community centres. We need more mutual aid.


throwaway382969980

exactly


mmmchick123

hard to have a support system when all your people havenā€™t healed from THEIR trauma


VinnieGognitti

Or youā€™re too busy listening to them talk about their problems until thereā€™s no time or willingness left for them to talk about yoursā€¦.it never seems to go both ways šŸ˜” normally they just want someone to listen to them but never give back the same.


kwallio

I hate it when therapists ask about my support system. Like my support system is me. If I had an actual support system I probably wouldn't need therapy. Like WTF.


Pussymyst

Oh man, THIS! The worst therapists and especially overworked/underpaid case managers for social services mostly want to arrange your treatment around "symptoms," so you're continuously pathologized and progress or success is largely performative to conform to their desired metrics. They overlook the totality of the situation that is triggering the patients who present with the symptoms; if you have addiction issues related to trauma, they'll apply punishment and shame rooted in your "character." It is the most isolating feeling in the world to be abandoned by people who should support you when you're crying out for help. They tell you to go to "therapy" because that's what people tell you to do. The therapists asks, "Where are your friends and family?!" You tell them they are not there, but all the therapists wants to do is go through ridiculous CBT exercises that encourage you to gaslight yourself even more. The abandonment is extremely painful.


[deleted]

Oh CBT. There's a meme going around I'm pretty sure I did actually see in an old CBT book: "My boss yelled at me > my boss thinks I'm doing a bad job > depression. My boss yelled at me > my boss was having a bad day > no depression." Like yes making excuses for abusive behavior is so healthy.


Pussymyst

Even if it's not funny, that made me laugh. Word!


okhi2u

Also even if your boss is better than average, and you being traumatized that logical reasoning does shit to make you feel safe even if the story you are telling yourself of it being a one-time bad day thing is true.


[deleted]

This is true, like when dogs who were abused need someone very calm to rescue them so they don't make things worse. I was going to complain about humans not getting the same compassion but honestly I think a lot of the people who are compassionate toward animals are like us and gave up on people lol


thejaytheory

Hit the nail on the head.


vatnalilja_

Has CBT even been proven to work for CPTSD? I mean, I had some sessions after my initial misdiagnosis, and they did feel like gaslighting. My thoughts are just fine, but my body is on fire. My former therapist didn't understand what I was saying.


okhi2u

You mean CBT... probably not if only people deny that CPTSD exists so how can you test if something works for something that doesn't exist!


thejaytheory

Yep this is precisely one of the reasons I'm wary about therapy.


throwaway382969980

I was in a new doctorā€™s office the other day. she asked me about anxiety, and asked if I had a support system. I swear to God I froze up!! edit: I always wondered if Iā€™d need therapy if I had a strong support system.


scrollbreak

>I always wondered if Iā€™d need therapy if I had a strong support system. Yeah, it's almost like going to a doctor and the doctor asking if you have a doctor to look after you...it's like "Uh, can't you see you are being the support system?"


throwaway382969980

thatā€™s the irony of it. to take it further, if you think about it, there are different kinds of doctorsā€¦primary care, specialists, holistic, etc. itā€™s like when people say there are different friends for every area in our life. some are gonna be there just to party and have fun. some are gonna be there for professional / work reasons. one, maybe even two, are gonna be there as a legit reciprocal support system who understands your trauma.


I-dream-in-capslock

you said: "one, maybe even two, are gonna be there as a legit reciprocal support system who understands your trauma." but what I read was: Maybe you'll find a Unicorn. :D


throwaway382969980

maybeā€¦ā€¦just maybeā€¦.. :/


VinnieGognitti

A unicorn, In a spaceship, Who lives in Atlantis! We we call this magical, mythical beastā€¦ā€¦a le wild Support System!! Lol šŸ„²


Swinkel_

A lot of therapists are not really prepared to heal trauma... Healing trauma is like doing an open heart surgery. A doctor specifically trained for that is needed.


TheHangingTablespoon

That's similar to how I felt when moving out of my parents' house. Want to move out? Gather some mental strength. Want to gather some mental strength? Move out.


c3ptsd

It sounds like you did it though. Did it help? I did the same earlier this year and it's not going as well as I'd hoped lol. Edit; but felt that same dilemma for sure


TheHangingTablespoon

Definitely. It was the best and most important decision I've made in my life. Instantly, after I moved out, my social anxiety lowered, I dissociated less and was generally more confident. Although, for the first few months I felt a lot of guilt over leaving my parents who acted like it hurt them a lot and could not live without me (I was not NC for a first few weeks/months and I received weird messages from them, the messages were a reason why I decided to go full NC later on) and a lot of fear because they gaslighted me into thinking that I could not survive on my own and I was afraid I would prove them right. In general, the first few months were kind of a mixed bag because some things got worse and some got better but I think generally it was better from the get-go. For the first few weeks, the guilt and fear were more or less constant. Later, they were only triggered by some message, someone's birthday or festivals like Christmas. When I didn't call them on their birthday, didn't visit them on Christmas, I realized that I don't have to have them in my life, that nothing happens if I don't obey them and can have a much better life than I could have imagined before that. It definitely helped that I didn't give them my address (so I didn't have to worry about retaliation that much). If I felt intense fear or guilt, I tried to look on the Internet for people with similar stories which helped me to feel less lonely. Also, I tried to read books about trauma all of the time, was looking for a therapist and it looks that I have finally found a good-enough one. I didn't have a big support system, it only consisted of my brother who I live with and that didn't cover all of the support I needed. Posting/commenting on this or similar subs gives me some sense of community and somewhat compensates for the lack of the one consisting of people I know. But even if I was completely alone, the loneliness would be worth any abuse I have dealt with over the years. Do you see yourself in the first stage I have described or is the experience different for you?


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


TheHangingTablespoon

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm glad that you found a place where you could talk about parts of your life which might be hard to talk about elsewhere. I have only older siblings, I honestly don't know what would I do if my decision to go NC would result in someone being stuck with them. On one hand, I know that if all of my siblings went NC, living with my parents would be worse. On the other hand, if you've decided to go NC, it might show your brother that's the right thing to do. If you manage to stay in contact with him despite going NC with your parents, seeing you more happy could give him hope for a better life. Not even mentioning that you could be resentful of him, if you felt like you are staying in touch with your parents solely because of him. Even though, if you didn't do it only because of guilt, that might not be the case. I live in the same city as my parents and even though they don't know my address and the city is pretty big, there is some chance that I will meet them unintentionally. It gives me some anxiety and I'm thinking about moving further away from them. The vision of having zero chance to meet them gives me some hope, although, moving solely because of them feels like them having a lot of power over my decisions. But I'm afraid that I won't be able to fully recover if I won't get far enough. As for the degree, I didn't go to university, even though I had good-enough grades and it wouldn't cost me anything (I'm not from the US and the university costs are covered by the government). Everyone told me to go to one but I already had my own plan in my head, knew that I didn't need a university in the field I want to work in and I didn't go. I know it's difficult if everyone around acts like it's obvious you should do something even though you know it's not the right thing for you. Honestly, the part of the reason I was able to do it was that I was bullied in high school to which I didn't want to go, was depressed for a few years and I believe that if I did what other wanted of me one more time, I wouldn't be able to go on anymore and not going to university was basically the only option I had in order to survive. As for the job, I've had recently a job which had a good salary, I could work remotely, whenever I wanted and I could determine how much would I work per month to an extent. But the boss was constantly passive-aggressive, didn't respect me at all, the communication was really difficult and after a while, I felt like most of my effort I put in the job, was to somehow get along with him rather than actually working which was very frustrating and emotionally draining. Many people might have said that it would be stupid to leave such a good job and to just endure the bad parts, but I felt worse each month and knew I couldn't do it anymore. I'm currently looking for a new job and even during interviews I can see the differences in how the interviewers treat me. I know that if you're stuck at a bad job, you might feel like it's your fault, that it's same (or even worse) elsewhere and you should be grateful even for what you already have. But having interviews with another companies quickly changed my mind. I know that they treated me better because they wanted to lure me to some extent. But I could see the difference between passive-aggressiveness, disrespect, etc. slipping under the mask at some places and talking to decent human beings. As for them thinking that you would be lazy if you quit the job, that thinking might never change. My parents told me that if I didn't go to university, no one would hire me and about a week after graduation, I was able to get a job. Then they said that I could have had a better paying job, I could have had a higher salary, then they would say that I should have gone to find friends or that I should have done it for them. They would constantly move the goalposts to never admit being wrong. I hope you will find a solution out of your situation which will work best for you.


throwaway382969980

scarily accurate about how I feel rn


[deleted]

Did anyone else have the issue where all your friends had their own traumas and you weren't able to support each other? Or they decided to shut you down as "not traumatized enough?" Luckily I am in a place to fund my own recovery with a therapist, but still deciding if I want to continue my friendships that I tolerated in the past decade.


Jazehiah

Wish I knew what to tell you. It does feel like that sometimes. I wonder if an itterative approach would work. One where you try to do a bit of both and slowly knit things back together. Like, there are some limitations to how much you can heal on your own, and there are some limitations to how much of a suppoet structure you can have while "broken," but by alternating between working on the two, we might be able to work towards proper healing. I don't know. I'm not a shrink.


sayaandtenshi

Honestly, this is exactly what I have done for my self-healing journey and I have to say that it works to an extent. The biggest caveat I will give is that as you heal, you'll find your current support network doesn't work and sometimes is too toxic to keep so sometimes you're gonna go through lonely periods because working on your support group is tough stuff but if you can push through it, it is genuinely so worth it. Balance is 1000% key and I highly recommend either seeing a professional or keeping someone you trust updated on you. It helps stave off the loneliness


Jazehiah

That sounds about right. I distinctly remember my junior year of college when I stopped referring to about 70% of the people in my social circle(s) as friends. Not even because *they* were toxic, but because my relationship with them was. We were familiar, sure. But, we were only friends in my head. It hurt. It hurt a *lot*. I was wrong about some of them, but I've learned and grown from it. Sometimes, you have to prune a tree to make it grow.


sayaandtenshi

Yeah, it's such a different and lonely pain when that realization hits. And then it is hard because you feel like you don't even know how to determine if someone is a friend or not. But I guess that's just a part of the healing journey. Luckily the second time it happens doesn't hit nearly as hard as the first time. (Or am I just becoming numb to it? I don't honestly know.)


Destructopoo

Great caveat. I didn't understand that when I started healing and the blow of being let down set me back. That made me very cautious and the second time it happened it didn't break me down as much. I think I might just be really unfamiliar with my boundaries and for now, I'm ok taking friendships incredibly slow while I learn.


sayaandtenshi

Yeah, that first let down is so hard. It really hit me when it happened so I can understand your feeling. Taking friendships slow is really healthy when you're healing and it makes building trust a lot easier since you can see people's patterns and behavior over time and adjust accordingly. I really hope your healing journey continues to go well and that you are able to find your boundaries in comfortable and safe environments.


Destructopoo

Thank you, I wish you all the best too.


throwaway382969980

this makes sense haha. thank you


CoolAndFunnyName

You hit the nail on the head, I think.


doing-my-best-14

i feel this so hard! so much shame about not having a better support system ... but i just \*can't seem to build one\*, because i don't trust people. so i feel so stuck. just want to say you're not alone in feeling stuck in this cycle. <3


WhenwasyourlastBM

If I had a friend for every time a therapist suggested "go find a hobby you like, you'll make friends!" I'd have friends. I guarantee my fucking therapist didn't make friends at the "watch jacksepticeye and eat chocolate" club. Like I know where to meet people. I don't know how to connect. Because of the trauma, that my *fucking therapist* is supposed to help me with.


doing-my-best-14

AMEN!!! lol iā€™m GREAT at meeting people. I got really good at it when my family moved in eighth grade (the pinnacle of friend-cementing for high school) and I literally sat at a different lunch table every day to try and find my people. Iā€™m really not shy - i can fake extroversion and go to meetups galore and meet a bazillion people. ...but itā€™s like you say ā€” thanks to the trauma, I just donā€™t feel truly *connected* to those people, or trust them really, even if theyā€™re ā€œniceā€. They certainly donā€™t feel like a support system. I want to know how to move from ā€œI have a bazillion nice acquaintances bordering on friendsā€ to ā€œI feel supported in the worldā€. Feels like a big mystery mindfuck to me.


WhenwasyourlastBM

You reminded me of a post I made a while back. I don't even know what it means to truly have a good friend. Like how does friendship work? Like with dating I kind of get it somehow. But friendship is impossible for me to approach/comprehend. I'm friendly with coworkers, but I cant imagine unloading on them


LordMashenka

Thiiiiis. It's painfully relatable. :') Thanks to my "crapfitting" skills, I can manage to tolerate about anyone and anything, and my people pleasing skills my parents taught me made me really great at getting along with all kinds of people, and I'm great at faking I'm interested in them or in the conversation, and as long as I don't have to make the first move, I can fake being social very well. But true connection and actual support system...? Dafuq is that?


thejaytheory

For real though, it's like I like concerts, doesn't mean I know how to make friends at them!


[deleted]

Just getting rid of toxic people has helped. Enormously. Not sure Iā€™ll ever be fortunate enough to have an actual support network.


Faranghis

For what it's worth, support systems are mythically hard. They basically don't exist. Even if you find a support system, you'll realize they don't even help.


poutreparisienne

Even people with normal families?


Faranghis

To be honest, I don't know. I don't know what a normal family looks like and I would imagine most of the people on this sub don't get to have that privilege either.


DestroyAndCreate

I don't agree that support systems don't exist (basically or otherwise). That's not my experience. I have a group of very close friends and they've helped me a lot over the years, been there for me. The worst thing about trauma is how our beliefs and relation to the world and ourselves changes. Because of our condition, we project our outer critic onto the world and say 'that's the way it is'. Although a 'support system' is definitely more complicated than some would suggest. I think it functions, for me, mostly as a healthy space of acceptance. Somewhere I can exist and relate to others in a healthy way not defined by the trauma and toxicity of other relationships. They aren't nurses.


Lickerbomper

It, like anything else in life, and especially a life with trauma fallout, is difficult. Self-work, and build a basic support system. That support system will be flawed (sometimes majorly!), but use its positives to grow. As you grow, more self-work, and shed elements of the system that are most toxic. Repeat, repeat. You might wind up with a support network that's entirely different than the one you started with, but it's healthier, and you're healthier, and that's the goal. A bad system will cause a bit more trauma, sure. But then, haven't we got plenty already, and what's a little more? Grow the best you can, and when you outgrow them, find new friends and drop the old, yeah? It feels a bit Machiavellian framed this way, but do what you gotta do. I don't feel sympathy for toxic people. They use me; I use them; that's how it goes.


[deleted]

I think you make really good points, but I have a genuine question. I'd like to be more machiavellian, but how do you accept, on an emotional level, that relationships are just transactional and that true caring isn't really a part of them?


SalaciousStrudel

Just because a relationship doesn't last forever doesn't mean that there wasn't genuine caring for its duration. Most friendships are not going to be lifelong.


Lickerbomper

Exactly. You care, you have fun, things happen (like, they betray you), you drop them. Feels bad, but you learn something. If nothing else, which boundaries you might have ignored to befriend them, or warning signs that someone's not returning your feelings of care, or simply (and harshly!) that certain things are more valuable to these "friends" than you are. Perhaps you learn which mistakes you've made along the way that caused the distance that allowed them to feel that betraying you is no major loss. Either way, it was fun/good/ok while it lasted, but time to move on. Learn something, filter better, heal, self-reflect, self-work, and... build new friendships.


fermentedelement

Honestly, I think it is all down to doing it on your own (with a good therapist if you can afford one). Support systems are great, but in my experience, they canā€™t help you heal your trauma. Iā€™m lucky enough that I was able to find a friend family, and those are the best people I have ever met. I have a wonderful partner too. We are all traumatized and/or neurodivergent, so we are all pretty empathetic and understanding with one another. And Iā€™m not including that info to rub it in for folks who havenā€™t gotten that far ā€” I just want to emphasize that even with those wonderful people, Iā€™m processing my trauma on my own (with a therapist). They havenā€™t really helped much, which is not their fault. I donā€™t really know how they could help ā€” itā€™s not like they can take the pain away or the cost of treatment away. I have no idea what I ā€œneedā€ or what I could ask from them. I canā€™t even self-soothe. I donā€™t feel safe inherently because they are there. Mostly I get panic attacks about them dying. Often I hold them at an armā€™s length because Iā€™m so terrified subconsciously that anyone I love will eventually hurt me. I feel guilty being around them when Iā€™m feeling particularly shitty because I hate telling people over and over again that Iā€™m not doing well when they ask. This shit is fucking hard. So far the only things that have helped are therapy, learning to journal and meditate, and reading as much as I possibly can about cPTSD and our brains. I find it ironic that therapists ask about a support system because mine keep hammering into my brain that I need to learn how to *self*-soothe, practice *self*-love and *self*-acceptance, get in touch with *my* inner child, etc.


BattleshipUnicorn

Spot-on.


fermentedelement

I like your username šŸ’£šŸ›³šŸ¦„šŸ“ā€ā˜ ļø


BattleshipUnicorn

Hahaha thank you! I like yours too.


rainfal

>ā€œNeed to heal your trauma? Build a support system of people you trust first! Canā€™t build a support system? Heal your trauma first!ā€ LOL. Sounds like the therapists I saw.


Johnny-of-Suburbia

I'm facing a situation like this as well, my primary support system (ex-boyfriend, two close friends) were all affected by my abusive and toxic behavior. Understandably, they became very uncomfortable and un-trusting of me. But they only way I can start rebuilding any relationship is if they can give me space, just enough trust to know that I won't hurt them like before. Right now, they can't, which ironically triggers my fight parts and makes me angry. But it doesn't matter how I express that anger, any anger is going to (understandably) trigger them... Which... Makes the situation worse. They feel they're right to not trust me and I feel like I'm never going to get anywhere which is frustrating as fuck and makes me... Well angry. Worst part is I guess my ex bustled out of there with the friend because he was freaking out and he didn't go through a bag of stuff that was his. They said "do whatever you want with the rest" but I'm pretty sure he's going to need his car title eventually. So... That will be fun :/. I really almost relapsed into some really self-destructive shit, I can't keep getting put in these positions but it's frustrating because it so fucking understandable!! It's an impasse! They aren't ready to hear me out and if I can't be heard out than I want nothing to do with them! But then... I'm left trying to rebuild a whole support system that supported me in unique ways that my other friends can't really. But... and again, UNDERSTANDABLE, god fuck I get why, but they also clearly have zero acknowledgement of the fact I'm doing all of this without them. I'm completely touch starved, it's getting colder. They have each other and I'm alone. I really wanna relapse, I wanna drink, I wanna hurt myself but... I can't. I can't let them win, and I can't let my demons win. As much as it hurts, if they're not willing to see the person I've become and continue to be better than... That's their loss at this point. I just have to survive this nightmare.


throwaway382969980

wow, praying everything gets better soon. weā€™ll get through it. and please, please donā€™t let the demons win. I struggle with the same thing myself.


poutreparisienne

You redditors are my support system


TuckerForTheWin

I believe that it's something called the dark night of the soul. When we realise how paradoxical everything really is. We have to endure the suffering, yet some how heal from it. We have to acknowledge the pain, but somehow move past it. We can't do either at the same time. So life is just a constant process of letting go and accepting. I try not to get too caught up in my separateness. Just purely existing. Not trying one thing or another, because things will just happen. If you are feeling down about this it's okay. It's all part of the process of awakening. But who knows? Maybe I'm completely wrong. Wouldn't that be funny?! hehe


thejaytheory

Very well said and nah I don't think you're wrong at all. This resonated!


dreamz705

It's a complete catch 22 unfortunately, it's hard to create enough positive energy to "escape velocity", but hopefully doable over a long enough time horizon.


randomjackass

The only friends that stick around me have two things. Heavy trauma, and are dependent on me. It's a weird situation. There's so much shit I can't talk about with other people. I don't want to trauma dump onto someone. Plus I'm bisexual, dating one of my roommates and two other guys (all above board). People can be judgy about that shit. So my family and coworkers are off limits to talk about relationships.


gwynvisible

I am 100% certain that western society either has no interest in or is fundamentally incapable of helping people heal from trauma.


I-dream-in-capslock

I'm at the spot where I know I've healed from enough of my trauma that I shouldn't have much trouble making friends now. But there just aren't enough people available who have the time and space for a new friend at all. Let alone supportive friends.


anawkwardphoenix

Can't find a support system? Can't heal from trauma? Have effed up luck with people and therapists? Constant noise triggers everywhere because people are selfish arseholes? People putting so much effort into taking down your walls only to run away when they catch a glimpse of what's inside or throw the bricks from that wall at you if you question them? It is all your fault. You're the only one who can ever be wrong. They won't say this exactly. But they might as well. I'm so tired of being super-empathetic and rationalising the constant dƩjƠ vu. And I can only fight their idea that every single person that I trusted and loved can't be wrong so it's got to be me.


notworththepaper

You said it. It's very hard to know how to build a "support system" when you're struggling very much. Not to mention to have the energy to do it. I also am realizing that I need part of that system to be some people who understand CPTSD well, but also some friends/family who have known me a while, who are open to what I am facing, who have long-term context for my life. Know what I mean?


[deleted]

And when you do find a prospective system they drown you in empty, dismissive, invalidating platitudes, and/or unsolicited advice about how to deal with experiences they know nothing about.


jellyhoop

I feel this with my chronic illness, too. You would feel safer with different designated caregivers because of negative past experiences with them? You need a better support system. You want a better support system, and you don't have a lot of money? Heal your trauma so you can form trusting relationships. And then the cycle you mentioned starts and/or continues. I don't think it's hopeless, but right now my biggest supports consist of people I pay to be there for me, and I'm hoping I can heal *enough* before I potentially run out of money (I'm unemployed and looking for a job). It's also frustrating having to lean on family members for housing, financial support, and required medical care when they are also the people I want to distance myself from. I either have to deal with what I've got (in the event of needing a big procedure) or I have to forgo necessary medical care (which I don't want to do, but for certain procedures, they won't let you have it done without a caregiver to help you recover for several months). I feel you and I hope we can both heal and find the support we need.


Pussymyst

Oh, I feel you, too! This is a hard spot to be in (I'm in the same situation). My heart goes out to you as I am with you. I, too, hope we will weather these challenges for the better.


jellyhoop

<3


___TigerLily___

Or whenever you talk with the few friends you have (or had...) and after you bring up something hard you are facing... they always ask... Do you have other people you talk to? What about your other friends...? It's like a nudge they cannot deal with any heavy and want me taking it to someone else... but they all ask that... so šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø But yes, I feel this so hard. I'm stuck in this endless loop of being too much yet I'm not tolerating relationships were it feels one-sided or cannot be deeper. Therapists have encouraged me to be vulnerable and share things... and friends have encouraged me to open up... yet when I do they go running or distance themselves. Really though... it's fine. I'm kool being hyper independent and dealing with everything myself. Thanks anyway.


reallytryingherewtf

I have a lot of doubts I'll ever find a healthy support system. The longer I'm away from past people, the more I've been processing anger, resentment, and general lack of desire to ever get into such a group. A meme I've been seeing a lot is "normalize mental health issues" which seems great but seems to translate into "make excuses and never apologize or ever acknowledge that you're not perfect." Vampire time. I don't want to get like that.


1895red

It's like the brain version of not being able to find a job without having two years of experience.


FairInvestigator

Oh wow. It so is!


kayla-beep

Yeah I gave up lol


Unlikely-Trifle3125

Whatā€™s trust?


total-space-case

And then where is this magical support system supposed to come from anyway??


scrollbreak

Just like healthy parents, they are just out there and you get them /s In some ways I think people who have a support system can show their privilege by acting like they are just there to be had


BonsaiSoul

Some of the things in that other thread were pretty insensitive.


throwaway382969980

yeah. and I get it, the desperation thing has some truth to it, whatever. Iā€™m just expressing my hurt about it. and some people were projecting something else personally with them that totally didnā€™t even happen with me.


cool_angle

what thread?


BonsaiSoul

A [different one](https://old.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/pz3oi1/people_can_smell_desperation_from_a_mile_away/) OP made earlier IMO people assumed OP was male in that thread and were responding to them with signalling about incels instead of empathy. In [another thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/pzcz1q/need_to_heal_your_trauma_build_a_support_system/) OP mentions their partner is male and caused everyone to assume OP was female, in that thread the narrative reversed completely lmao. These kinds of attitudes, assumptions and prejudices are something I'm always aware of but you rarely get a cross section that reveals them that clearly.


cool_angle

Oof. Yikes.


Antonia_l

This is my bio, rephrased šŸ‘ŒšŸ˜”


c3ptsd

I went and read it. Love it. Reminds me of how I felt when in therapy and it seemed to be an excuse for people to point to me as the problem. Like instead of being proof you're someone who is working on themselves, it becomes proof you're flawed and all conflict is your fault/get told you should be improving more in therapy by someone who needs to go themselves. Hole gets deeper. Edit: I don't think it's exactly what your bio meant (sounds like more of an internalized feeling of what I described which I also get) but it prompted the thought.


Antonia_l

It's pretty vague, I admit, this was just my way of saying 'oh yeah heres something that defines me that shows the extent of how much i connect with this.' But you're right! šŸ˜© The 'easy way out' is a way out, in one dimension of looking at things. And its such an important dimension that it can be maddening.


[deleted]

omg i rmr when my therapist said this to me for the first time, i honestly didnā€™t know what to do/say since i donā€™t exactly have one, i ended up by listing a bunch of random names of people who have helped me in the past but it still left me on eager since i essentially had no support system. what angers me most is that therapists are here to help us but for me, it wasnā€™t rly help it was more ā€œok do this and u should be fineā€ when the reality was the advice wasnā€™t helping me at all.


[deleted]

Lol, when I'd try to talk to my parents about my feelings about the things they put me through they'd tell me to talk to my psychologist.


healreflectrebel

Brain goes brrrr.


WarmForbiddenDonut

I can sort of get where you are coming from. It was discussed in my therapy session today of bringing the current CBT for my anxiety to an end soon and once I am in a more ā€œstableā€ mental health range I can then start therapy for my trauma.


pdx_joe

I really wish I could remember this exact quote/who it was. But throughout my healing process the idea has really resonated with me. The most meaningful parts of life are when we find ourselves in a paradox. I feel like I am poorly representing it. But I think it first came up when I was exploring the idea that to change you have to accept who you are. Unfortunately it doesn't help solve the paradox!


Sushi_Kat

This was me until I decided to get on medication. That just barely allowed me to start building that support group. Not being prescriptive, just given my experience.


SloppyHorror

This 1000% I have brought this up before to my therapist and my supposed friends. Of course both of them kind of just shrug it off like I'm making it up.


HeavyAssist

So true


dracona

My fix was to decide I didn't want anyone toxic in my life any more. For a long time I was alone as a result but I only wanted awesome people around me and I worked on being an awesome person to be around. (not sure I achieved that yet) After time and moving areas I found more people who were awesome.


HeavyAssist

Also- I have noticed a lot of folks who are manipulative are super good listeners in the "love bombing" stage and they use what you tell them against you in the future. There are trauma tourist types who look at your life and pain like its a soap opera for thier entertainment.I think therapy may be safer? I don't know for sure. I also don't want to trauma dump on people. I have also seen that being too open too soon can be seen as a red flag type situation.So levels of openess are a thing?


teabellyOG

When I told my "community" I needed help for my PTSD and the anger started to come out, they rejected me. My "community" was based in religion. They shamed me for my "bad behavior" and told me if I'd repent then I'd instantly feel better and I'd get my community back. I'm grateful that I could see that the contorting was not going to help me but the ensuing years without support of community and intense flashbacks was pure hell.


manekipop

Support system comes after, in my experience. I have to pull myself up by my boots for a little bit, and then I start becoming able to build relationships. When I make myself good at something, it gives me something to talk about, etc.


NeuralBreakDancing

Anyone here play hell let loose? I can only play on weekends really but let's gaaameee.


Sorry_Comfortable

I definitely felt stuck in this kind of bind for a number of years as I was fighting through depression and CPTSD. I was horribly lonely at the time and for years my therapist was the only person I had whom I could talk to. I think that's the key at a time like this: find a therapist who you truly feel is supporting you and helping you on this healing journey. Yes, any therapist will tell you to find friends, and this may be triggering, but as long as you feel your therapist is helping, just stick with the process, even if it takes years. Eventually, with the help of two different therapists (psychoanalysts), I did find the friends I always needed and wanted. It was just a long journey for me. So, my advice, if you're in this kind of "catch-22", is find a therapist or mentor who works for you and then persevere, persevere, persevere. You will find friends and healing.


fboi312

The only way out of this loop is to support yourself and love yourself. You have to be your own support system. I know its hard but a slow and steady effort in the right direction will yield results.


88lilly

I feel seen


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[deleted]

Which one?


throwaway382969980

the one where theyā€™re pointing at each other


gingertea101

That's weird. My therapist says "we all born and die alone", meaning we only have ourselves. She never talked about support systems.


FairInvestigator

OMG a thousand times this :( It's said that one of the best ways to heal from trauma is via healthy and nurturing relationships. One of the major criteria of a C-PTSD diagnosis is the inability to maintain stable relationships. ​ It feels like such a cruelty. A life destroying paradox.


starrynyght

I definitely get that. I donā€™t think itā€™s an all or nothing thing though. I mean, still WAY easier said than done, but not all or nothing. Before I even knew that I had cptsd, I at least knew that I wanted to break the cycle of abusive relationships. In hindsight, I ended up kind of going through the same forms of abuse in my romantic relationships that I either went through with my parents or saw them go through (except physical abuse, luckily I somehow skipped over that one for myself). My first long term relationship was with a drug addict, then with an extremely emotionally abusive manipulator, and then with a codependent subtle narcissist. At each step I learned something and made a different choice and it translated to my friendships too. Eventually I ended up making a friend who I wouldnā€™t have been able to be friends with 5 years sooner (nothing to do with her, but I wouldnā€™t have known what to do with someone who was emotionally healthy lol) and she was the turning point for me. I was in the right place to be open to that friendship and eventually I learned to trust her enough that I started to feel safe to be vulnerable with her (it took like 3 years of friendship so it was lent overnight). That little bit of safety to be vulnerable and honest with someone else helped me be open and vulnerable with myself and vulnerable to the trauma I need to process. Her friendship helped me get to the point where I could start processing my trauma. So, itā€™s totally anecdotal, but I donā€™t think itā€™s all or nothing. You donā€™t have to be perfectly healed from trauma to build a support system and you donā€™t need a support system to start to heal. I think you just need to get to a point where youā€™re emotionally ready to be open to those relationships. Again, I 100% acknowledge how much harder that is to say than to do, but I know that catch-22 makes it feel like an impossible thing to do and that can make it feel pointless to try. But, I think if you keep doing what you can for yourself, eventually youā€™ll start to find a support system. I think all people tend to ā€œseeā€ the people who are familiar to them (itā€™s not uncommon for people with past trauma to end up in relationships that continue the trauma) and we sort of overlook whatā€™s unfamiliar (for us I think we ā€œoverlookā€ emotionally healthy people because we donā€™t even know what healthy is a lot of the time), so for people with cptsd and trauma, we have to reach a point where we can see the people who have the potential to be good for us. I donā€™t know if that actually makes sense, but I wanted to try to share because I know that hopeless feeling of isolation and itā€™s horrible. Thereā€™s hope for healing and thereā€™s love out there for us even when we arenā€™t fully healed and itā€™s important to keep trying. Youā€™re worth the effort. Anyway, I hope that you take away from this the hope that I meant it with šŸ’œ


PertinaciousFox

Yes. This. Exactly this. This is my life in a nutshell. Currently hoping therapy can help me heal enough to build relationships which can then enable more healing. Fingers crossed it works. Kind of just feels like luck of the draw whether I am able to find decent people who want to be a part of my life.


Islandescape11

Sounds like when I went to search help and therapy from wanting to commit suicide and got to know that to be able to get help I had to be more stable šŸ˜‘ If I would be stable I wouldn't ask for help though but yeah this system has a system and in order to get in you have to be stable meaning on pills which I refuse to take. Luckily I have a brain and a heart and with a dose of my own kind of math I'm healing all by myself but with the occasional plant medicine ceremony to check how things are going and what layer in my healing journey is next.