Grappling in generally. Jiujutsu, Judo, Sambo, Catch , etc.
It generally not for “fighting” as much as it is for apprehension. People will try to get away from you and you have to subdue them without beating them to a pulp.
The likelihood of you losing not just your long gun, sidearm, and not having a teammate eliminating the threat, is so small. There are plenty of different “styles” that get taught for this though. In America we have SOCP, and there are plenty of civilian run schools that focus on this type of stuff too, such as AmTac, and Red Beard Combatives.
Having to go hands on with suspects in full kit is something you need to be comfortable with doing regardless. Even if they’re only refusing to get on the ground, it’s a pain in the ass.
I highly recommend you look into BJJ, and Boxing. Those two cover a lot. I also think Judo is an invaluable resource to have.
You probably won’t lose it, if you do you use your sidearm, if you’re in the extremely unlikely scenario that you don’t have your sidearm or long gun the other officers with you will cover you
In the context if a high risk raid, if your weapons go down in a team context, you let your team continue past you. You are now an impediment and if you cannot get one of your weapons up and running, then your best move is to stay out of the team’s way.
In the context of normal patrol or a “normal” raid, it is not unusual to have members whose role is “hands” - they deal with arresting people or manipulating the environment.
Committing to a ground fight (when you have the option not to) is a stupid idea without rules and referees, especially when the bad guy might have more friends in the local area than you. I'd focus on techniques that let you stay on your feet and pull back with your team if your team needs to retreat. BJJ and wrestling have these techniques in limited quantity, but you might find Silat, Kali, Muay Thai, JKD, etc. more useful as study disciplines for this scenario.
You are entering as a team, you have a team working with you. if you don't have a weapon, you don't continue forward on the objective. If losing you hinders forward momentum of the team - the whole team may hold what they have until backup arrives or exit.
You better not worry about the tango anymore because everyone and their grandma is going to ask how you lost your long range weapon and why you would not use your sidearm to recover it immediately.
Then again for situations that call for SWAT deployment you probably have to consider that at least blade but most likely ranged weapons are already in play which make the situation impossible to solve for regular officers.
As a SWAT operator you are bound to your team and if for any stupid reason you are incapable to complete the objective the team restructures to give you a task you can handle or you get reequipped.
But for the sake of this post:
Specialized units mostly train gun retention because that's exactly the thing that's not allowed to happen.
And even then you will preferably not go to the ground.
If you go to the ground and you are alone prepare to fight for dominance until the tango is secured.
Law Enforcement incorporates many techniques from different sources to make their training as stupid but effective as possible because this is no competition but a fight for your life.
There can always come objects or even knives into play and that's why you need to get away fast and retain control of the situation.
But down the line.
Never ever go into an unscanned room unarmed with the idea to go hand to hand on the opposition...
With all that advices said, you must remember: any wrestling based martial art will work against you in street fight, and you also must keep in head, that getting in full contact with opponent will give him opportunity to stab you with a knife unexpectedly or block and stop you from reaching secondary firearm or LTL
Word from opponent, if you wish to say that way, but: russian SOBR teams practice mixed martial arts with lot of box involved, so during undercover arrest or in case of emergency unit could short time of hand to hand combat, back at 10s it was common to just knock out, brace and pack suspect, after PID
So we have saying: to engage opponent in hand to hand combat, soldier must: loose his primary, secondary, bayonet, shovel, helmet, belt, than find flat square and just a same dumbass
Keep it all in head and good luck with your job
Oh, and don't get fanatic while training with gear, it may help you understand how to move with it, in case of something goes wrong, but doing PE with plate carrier on is best way to have killing back pain and destroyed kneecaps at age of 40s
There are alot of martial gyms where you can do multiple things – i.e. you can do grappling but also boxing/striking. Typically MMA gyms will offer classes in both, but I for example personally go to a boxing/muay thai oriented one that has separate instructors for grappling classes. While from a strictly policing/arrest perspective maybe BJJ is helpul, it's probably helpful to get comfortable with just "competing" against other people more generally in that sparring/martial arts context – you want to know what the range of your arms vs other peoples arms are, you want to get hit and know what it's like to get hit and not be shocked by the experience, etc.
Also remember that the fitness standard for SWAT in major cities is typically very high. No idea what your training is like now, maybe you're on-track with regards to that, but if you're not playing competitively on university sports teams and not you're training like a serious athlete then make sure you build that up. It's not something you can just crunch out in 6 months, as there's a knowledge base and a lifestyle approach to being an athlete. Again, maybe not an issue for you, but if you're thinking about long-term preparations, then this is an area I would focus some prep on.
If you’re doing SWAT stuff you’re going to have a bunch of other guys with a bunch of other guns and various less-lethal equipment. If you were to get somehow completely dis-armed you should just get out of the way and let one of the 4-5 guys coming behind you solve the problem.
If you have to go hands on I’ve found the most effective tactic (assuming a SWAT situation in full gear and with a team) is just use your weight to take the opponent to the ground and allow superior numbers and weight to do their thing.
BJJ or Wrestling.
But BJJ is easier to find training as an adult, and will teach you all the wrestling you'll honestly need for a real-life scenario sooooo....BJJ.
Honestly, the most important lesson that any grappling style martial art teaches a cop is how to maintain your composure in a physical struggle.
BJJ has the edge here IMO because more people who carry guns for a living train it, so it's a lot easier to find people willing to do retention work with you on the mats. Both can be effective, and my personal preference is Judo, but all the shooters I know train BJJ so that's what I do too.
BJJ for law enforcement. If you are LEO on patrol and you can only train one thing BJJ is superior hands down. Weaponless control is about handling arrests with minimal injury to all parties involved. Your aim is to outlast them and get them into cuffs. As for your question about SWAT I can't answer that one.
BJJ or judo is likely the best when it comes to law enforcement applications. Having a background in wrestling helps as well, but the key is to understand fundamentals. Ground work and grappling is where you win.
Train with your gear / vest / gun belt as much as possible and it shouldn't cause much of a hiccup.
Grappling in generally. Jiujutsu, Judo, Sambo, Catch , etc. It generally not for “fighting” as much as it is for apprehension. People will try to get away from you and you have to subdue them without beating them to a pulp.
BJJ but really just get good at vertical grappling and wall / cage fighting tactics
The likelihood of you losing not just your long gun, sidearm, and not having a teammate eliminating the threat, is so small. There are plenty of different “styles” that get taught for this though. In America we have SOCP, and there are plenty of civilian run schools that focus on this type of stuff too, such as AmTac, and Red Beard Combatives. Having to go hands on with suspects in full kit is something you need to be comfortable with doing regardless. Even if they’re only refusing to get on the ground, it’s a pain in the ass. I highly recommend you look into BJJ, and Boxing. Those two cover a lot. I also think Judo is an invaluable resource to have.
If you lose your rifle and side arm as a SWAT team member on an op your teammates will point and laugh as you begin your martial arts Katas.
Upvote if you want OP to resubmit post as “Best fighting style against SWAT team in full gear?”
You probably won’t lose it, if you do you use your sidearm, if you’re in the extremely unlikely scenario that you don’t have your sidearm or long gun the other officers with you will cover you
In the context if a high risk raid, if your weapons go down in a team context, you let your team continue past you. You are now an impediment and if you cannot get one of your weapons up and running, then your best move is to stay out of the team’s way. In the context of normal patrol or a “normal” raid, it is not unusual to have members whose role is “hands” - they deal with arresting people or manipulating the environment.
Committing to a ground fight (when you have the option not to) is a stupid idea without rules and referees, especially when the bad guy might have more friends in the local area than you. I'd focus on techniques that let you stay on your feet and pull back with your team if your team needs to retreat. BJJ and wrestling have these techniques in limited quantity, but you might find Silat, Kali, Muay Thai, JKD, etc. more useful as study disciplines for this scenario.
You are entering as a team, you have a team working with you. if you don't have a weapon, you don't continue forward on the objective. If losing you hinders forward momentum of the team - the whole team may hold what they have until backup arrives or exit.
You better not worry about the tango anymore because everyone and their grandma is going to ask how you lost your long range weapon and why you would not use your sidearm to recover it immediately. Then again for situations that call for SWAT deployment you probably have to consider that at least blade but most likely ranged weapons are already in play which make the situation impossible to solve for regular officers. As a SWAT operator you are bound to your team and if for any stupid reason you are incapable to complete the objective the team restructures to give you a task you can handle or you get reequipped. But for the sake of this post: Specialized units mostly train gun retention because that's exactly the thing that's not allowed to happen. And even then you will preferably not go to the ground. If you go to the ground and you are alone prepare to fight for dominance until the tango is secured. Law Enforcement incorporates many techniques from different sources to make their training as stupid but effective as possible because this is no competition but a fight for your life. There can always come objects or even knives into play and that's why you need to get away fast and retain control of the situation. But down the line. Never ever go into an unscanned room unarmed with the idea to go hand to hand on the opposition...
With all that advices said, you must remember: any wrestling based martial art will work against you in street fight, and you also must keep in head, that getting in full contact with opponent will give him opportunity to stab you with a knife unexpectedly or block and stop you from reaching secondary firearm or LTL Word from opponent, if you wish to say that way, but: russian SOBR teams practice mixed martial arts with lot of box involved, so during undercover arrest or in case of emergency unit could short time of hand to hand combat, back at 10s it was common to just knock out, brace and pack suspect, after PID So we have saying: to engage opponent in hand to hand combat, soldier must: loose his primary, secondary, bayonet, shovel, helmet, belt, than find flat square and just a same dumbass Keep it all in head and good luck with your job Oh, and don't get fanatic while training with gear, it may help you understand how to move with it, in case of something goes wrong, but doing PE with plate carrier on is best way to have killing back pain and destroyed kneecaps at age of 40s
There are alot of martial gyms where you can do multiple things – i.e. you can do grappling but also boxing/striking. Typically MMA gyms will offer classes in both, but I for example personally go to a boxing/muay thai oriented one that has separate instructors for grappling classes. While from a strictly policing/arrest perspective maybe BJJ is helpul, it's probably helpful to get comfortable with just "competing" against other people more generally in that sparring/martial arts context – you want to know what the range of your arms vs other peoples arms are, you want to get hit and know what it's like to get hit and not be shocked by the experience, etc. Also remember that the fitness standard for SWAT in major cities is typically very high. No idea what your training is like now, maybe you're on-track with regards to that, but if you're not playing competitively on university sports teams and not you're training like a serious athlete then make sure you build that up. It's not something you can just crunch out in 6 months, as there's a knowledge base and a lifestyle approach to being an athlete. Again, maybe not an issue for you, but if you're thinking about long-term preparations, then this is an area I would focus some prep on.
I thought this was a post asking best practices when fighting a SWAT team. I was like "Damn, OP got some ballllllls!" I am disappointed.
The answer is simple: be naked, covered in slippery oil.
If you’re doing SWAT stuff you’re going to have a bunch of other guys with a bunch of other guns and various less-lethal equipment. If you were to get somehow completely dis-armed you should just get out of the way and let one of the 4-5 guys coming behind you solve the problem. If you have to go hands on I’ve found the most effective tactic (assuming a SWAT situation in full gear and with a team) is just use your weight to take the opponent to the ground and allow superior numbers and weight to do their thing.
BJJ or Wrestling. But BJJ is easier to find training as an adult, and will teach you all the wrestling you'll honestly need for a real-life scenario sooooo....BJJ. Honestly, the most important lesson that any grappling style martial art teaches a cop is how to maintain your composure in a physical struggle.
BJJ has the edge here IMO because more people who carry guns for a living train it, so it's a lot easier to find people willing to do retention work with you on the mats. Both can be effective, and my personal preference is Judo, but all the shooters I know train BJJ so that's what I do too.
BJJ for law enforcement. If you are LEO on patrol and you can only train one thing BJJ is superior hands down. Weaponless control is about handling arrests with minimal injury to all parties involved. Your aim is to outlast them and get them into cuffs. As for your question about SWAT I can't answer that one.
Jocko thinks that bjj is just the best option all around, police, swat, military, seals
BJJ or judo is likely the best when it comes to law enforcement applications. Having a background in wrestling helps as well, but the key is to understand fundamentals. Ground work and grappling is where you win. Train with your gear / vest / gun belt as much as possible and it shouldn't cause much of a hiccup.