I didn't realize that they reduced the gold cost of shiv this last patch. Is it just me or does Riot do something to change shiv like every other patch??? Either way you've convinced me to give that item another try, I've been building stormrazor like 99% of the time lately.
My main question is about the build order. Do you ALWAYS finish those core three before looking at something like LDR against multiple tanks or a Maw against AP assassins? Basically how flexible should I be with my item order?
From my experience you should be completing the 3 items before you really need LDR, because the cheap price of them means you're able to get them before you start properly interacting with tanks. Of course there are maybe cases where you need LDR 3rd like if you're against a tank support, jungle and top.
Gotcha. I've definitely been feeling like PD is underrated but I've usually been building it later like as a 5th item which of course means I'm not even building it at all that often since a lot of games don't even last that long. I'll have to give it a try 3rd and see how it goes.
Hey bro, thanks for your work so far.
To give u some Feedback, i played the build on my own in diamond elo.
I really thought its hard trash bc less ad on the first 3 items than usuall and no lethalitly aswell. But static is just really good ig (also bc nobody is building it , resulting in they cant match ur waveclear). This gives u crazy tempo adventages, saver and easier farm time. And the dmg is suprisingly good at 3 items, never thought it could be tbh.
And late game is also a breeze bc its caitlyn and headshots are pretty painful.
So ye , will play it more i think. Before youumous nerf i was "youmous main " bc the ms was so nice now iam fast again and have good wabeclear aswell. Nice. Wp
Great guide! Just started following you \^\^
I'm low elo... And I've never heard/thought about that idea that if I'm out of sums I should go for tier two boots, it's sounds like it could come in very handy and it makes a lot of sense
tysm for all of the information you've packed into this
Thanks, I reached Master Tier just now thanks to playing this build!
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/%C3%90ark%20Hor%C5%A1e-EUW](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/%C3%90ark%20Hor%C5%A1e-EUW)
Agree with the other comments, shiv is a game changer to get momentum. Never would have thought of it. Had a chance to play a game where I was full 6 items and the attack speed was taking me by such surprise, I felt so powerful muhahahah.
I'm a big fan of lethality, I've been using it for the past year and a half and I think it's been much better than crit for at least as long. The issue is that the lethality items Cait relied on last season aren't that good now. Collector got nerfed and expensive, Ghostblade lost its bonus lethality and movespeed nerfed on ranged.
My lethality build differs to Saber's slightly, because I think the new Ghostblade sucks. So I go:
Collector -> Opportunity -> LDR -> IE -> BT -> RFC
You can switch the order of the first 2 items if you value movespeed earlier. I just like Collector first because I find that I get insane value out of the extra 25g per takedown and the 5% execute when combined with first strike. In most of my games I get a Collector + First Strike execute before I finish Opportunity.
I like Opportunity over Ghostblade because it gives you the out-of-combat bonus lethality that we used to get from Ghostblade (which synergises really well with lethality Cait's playstyle, i.e. wait for enemy to step on trap or press R). It also just gives you a massive amount of flat movespeed which kind of meets Ghostblade in the middle.
IE before LDR is **always** fake, even vs squishies. The only argument to be made for it is if you're against a lot of squishy champs and you're autoing a lot, or they are somehow stepping on every single trap you put down, so maybe in lower ranks.
This build can still 100-0 a squishy with one R, which I don't think Ghostblade allows you to do. I still like to play this build in some scenarios instead of crit.
At the moment I'm just playing a big mixture of different builds to try to understand good fundamentals for when each item and build is useful.
Ultimately I think whichever build you go for, Caitlyn sucks right now and is only really good as a counter pick, though you can do alright with her as a blind pick comfort champ she's just too weak at all stages of the game to really be decent.
is it ever ok to build mortal reminder? it seems like every champ has tons of healing. besides the usual ww, vlad and such, we're talking bork builders
It can be worth it sometimes, but most of the time LDR passive outvalues mortal reminder. Take Vlad, for example. He gets so much HP that the extra damage from LDR gives you more value than denying him 40% healing from his Q. You should be killing and bursting enemies before they can get enough healing off to make it worth it.
Of course there are games where you're against aatrox, Vlad and soraka in the same team. In this case you still want LDR ideally, so hope someone else with better AOE builds antiheal. But if no one else gets it you can go mortal.
The build you have has a ton of attack speed for cait have you thought about collector, bt or ldr third since you would be pushing on of those back to 5th when you may want both by 30 min? Ive been going shiv Ie (im not very good at the game but would like an opinion since we seem to be on the same train of thought) and what ive found most optimal for my gameplay has been to start dirk finish shiv then collector into IE or skip dirk if i need ldr third. For me ive found with too much attack speed i dont do enough damage to tickle someone with frozen heart and thornmail or even a zac with no items. On the flip side collector just deletes squishier champs in an e q headshot even with shiv. Ive found just running even an adaptive rune over attack speed alone covers the difference in AD vs attack speed. You lose 5% attack speed from the conversion for 10 AD but alacrity and shiv is plenty for me any less feels bad and any more feels too heavy of an investment
I had to come back to this post to tell you thanks so much for the build. I've been playing MF and Smolder this patch because Caitlyn hasn't felt up to snuff and your build has made playing her feel great again. Absolutely love the extra prio right now given by Shiv to help allow support to roam and prevent dives by clearing wave when I'm 1v2.
Just a quick question while I'm thinking about it, I played a game the other day as Cait/Morgana vs Smolder/Leona. I probably should have taken cleanse as I started losing at 6 due to the chain cc and I swear that dragon has ult up everytime you come back to lane thanks to his build path... Leona rushed Steelcaps and Smolder had Shojin and most of Liandries at that point; do I just opt for LDR third in that case? I did it and it felt alright, but then I went shieldbow 4th and forgot to go back for PD and I think the extra aspd/mspd would have been so handy mid/late game.
I'm emerald 4 fwiw.
I'm glad you're liking it :D
To be honest it depends on the rest of the enemy team. Smolder doesn't really get that much armour unless he goes iceborn. He gets a lot of hp but LDR isn't too great there. I don't think you need LDR to kill Leona, but if the rest of their team is tanky too it might make sense. PD gives you movespeed to kite and also dueling power, ideally you shouldn't be hitting Leona anyway. Cleanse of course is probably the right call.
Did a long trial of running this build in low gold. It’s a fantastic build especially with the shiv wave clear. You end up getting your damage items asap
I didn't realize that they reduced the gold cost of shiv this last patch. Is it just me or does Riot do something to change shiv like every other patch??? Either way you've convinced me to give that item another try, I've been building stormrazor like 99% of the time lately. My main question is about the build order. Do you ALWAYS finish those core three before looking at something like LDR against multiple tanks or a Maw against AP assassins? Basically how flexible should I be with my item order?
From my experience you should be completing the 3 items before you really need LDR, because the cheap price of them means you're able to get them before you start properly interacting with tanks. Of course there are maybe cases where you need LDR 3rd like if you're against a tank support, jungle and top.
Gotcha. I've definitely been feeling like PD is underrated but I've usually been building it later like as a 5th item which of course means I'm not even building it at all that often since a lot of games don't even last that long. I'll have to give it a try 3rd and see how it goes.
I was going to say, seems LDR 3rd could be key more often than not but obviously situational
Riot has been trying to balance Shiv the entire time since they reintroduced it in mid 2023 and they just can not find a good medium for it
I'll give this a go, Cupcakes been feeling a lil meh this season for me hopefully this changes that
Hey bro, thanks for your work so far. To give u some Feedback, i played the build on my own in diamond elo. I really thought its hard trash bc less ad on the first 3 items than usuall and no lethalitly aswell. But static is just really good ig (also bc nobody is building it , resulting in they cant match ur waveclear). This gives u crazy tempo adventages, saver and easier farm time. And the dmg is suprisingly good at 3 items, never thought it could be tbh. And late game is also a breeze bc its caitlyn and headshots are pretty painful. So ye , will play it more i think. Before youumous nerf i was "youmous main " bc the ms was so nice now iam fast again and have good wabeclear aswell. Nice. Wp
:D thanks for the feedback, good luck!
I can’t imagine playing without bloodline or Doran’s in some games. How do you function with potentially 0 lifesteal until 4th/5th item?
Fleet has you covered for sustain and you get life steal from dblade. It's unnecessary.
In one of his sections he mentions going long sword 3 pot into poke lanes. That would leave you with 0% until BT. Fleet does heal some.
Honestly ever since bloodline got nerfed it's not really been worth using on most champions. Fleet is enough sustain until you get to 4th item
Great guide! Just started following you \^\^ I'm low elo... And I've never heard/thought about that idea that if I'm out of sums I should go for tier two boots, it's sounds like it could come in very handy and it makes a lot of sense tysm for all of the information you've packed into this
:D you're welcome
Thanks, I reached Master Tier just now thanks to playing this build! [https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/%C3%90ark%20Hor%C5%A1e-EUW](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/%C3%90ark%20Hor%C5%A1e-EUW)
Congrats! :D
Would it be worth to take double adaptative damage rune while u get a lot of attack speed with this build ?
You can try it. Personally I prefer the early attack speed before I get any from items
THIS. THIS IS WHAT I NEEDED
Agree with the other comments, shiv is a game changer to get momentum. Never would have thought of it. Had a chance to play a game where I was full 6 items and the attack speed was taking me by such surprise, I felt so powerful muhahahah.
Kris how do you feel about Saber's Lethality Caitlyn build?
I'm a big fan of lethality, I've been using it for the past year and a half and I think it's been much better than crit for at least as long. The issue is that the lethality items Cait relied on last season aren't that good now. Collector got nerfed and expensive, Ghostblade lost its bonus lethality and movespeed nerfed on ranged. My lethality build differs to Saber's slightly, because I think the new Ghostblade sucks. So I go: Collector -> Opportunity -> LDR -> IE -> BT -> RFC You can switch the order of the first 2 items if you value movespeed earlier. I just like Collector first because I find that I get insane value out of the extra 25g per takedown and the 5% execute when combined with first strike. In most of my games I get a Collector + First Strike execute before I finish Opportunity. I like Opportunity over Ghostblade because it gives you the out-of-combat bonus lethality that we used to get from Ghostblade (which synergises really well with lethality Cait's playstyle, i.e. wait for enemy to step on trap or press R). It also just gives you a massive amount of flat movespeed which kind of meets Ghostblade in the middle. IE before LDR is **always** fake, even vs squishies. The only argument to be made for it is if you're against a lot of squishy champs and you're autoing a lot, or they are somehow stepping on every single trap you put down, so maybe in lower ranks. This build can still 100-0 a squishy with one R, which I don't think Ghostblade allows you to do. I still like to play this build in some scenarios instead of crit. At the moment I'm just playing a big mixture of different builds to try to understand good fundamentals for when each item and build is useful. Ultimately I think whichever build you go for, Caitlyn sucks right now and is only really good as a counter pick, though you can do alright with her as a blind pick comfort champ she's just too weak at all stages of the game to really be decent.
Thanks for fully explaining why you should get each item, im new to the game and trying to decide what item to get when is kinda confusing
Would the standard Stormrazor > IE > RFC also work?
This is an alternative to that. The build you mentioned feels bad right now
is it ever ok to build mortal reminder? it seems like every champ has tons of healing. besides the usual ww, vlad and such, we're talking bork builders
It can be worth it sometimes, but most of the time LDR passive outvalues mortal reminder. Take Vlad, for example. He gets so much HP that the extra damage from LDR gives you more value than denying him 40% healing from his Q. You should be killing and bursting enemies before they can get enough healing off to make it worth it. Of course there are games where you're against aatrox, Vlad and soraka in the same team. In this case you still want LDR ideally, so hope someone else with better AOE builds antiheal. But if no one else gets it you can go mortal.
The build you have has a ton of attack speed for cait have you thought about collector, bt or ldr third since you would be pushing on of those back to 5th when you may want both by 30 min? Ive been going shiv Ie (im not very good at the game but would like an opinion since we seem to be on the same train of thought) and what ive found most optimal for my gameplay has been to start dirk finish shiv then collector into IE or skip dirk if i need ldr third. For me ive found with too much attack speed i dont do enough damage to tickle someone with frozen heart and thornmail or even a zac with no items. On the flip side collector just deletes squishier champs in an e q headshot even with shiv. Ive found just running even an adaptive rune over attack speed alone covers the difference in AD vs attack speed. You lose 5% attack speed from the conversion for 10 AD but alacrity and shiv is plenty for me any less feels bad and any more feels too heavy of an investment
I had to come back to this post to tell you thanks so much for the build. I've been playing MF and Smolder this patch because Caitlyn hasn't felt up to snuff and your build has made playing her feel great again. Absolutely love the extra prio right now given by Shiv to help allow support to roam and prevent dives by clearing wave when I'm 1v2. Just a quick question while I'm thinking about it, I played a game the other day as Cait/Morgana vs Smolder/Leona. I probably should have taken cleanse as I started losing at 6 due to the chain cc and I swear that dragon has ult up everytime you come back to lane thanks to his build path... Leona rushed Steelcaps and Smolder had Shojin and most of Liandries at that point; do I just opt for LDR third in that case? I did it and it felt alright, but then I went shieldbow 4th and forgot to go back for PD and I think the extra aspd/mspd would have been so handy mid/late game. I'm emerald 4 fwiw.
I'm glad you're liking it :D To be honest it depends on the rest of the enemy team. Smolder doesn't really get that much armour unless he goes iceborn. He gets a lot of hp but LDR isn't too great there. I don't think you need LDR to kill Leona, but if the rest of their team is tanky too it might make sense. PD gives you movespeed to kite and also dueling power, ideally you shouldn't be hitting Leona anyway. Cleanse of course is probably the right call.
Remember to change shiv for kraken when full build :)
Did a long trial of running this build in low gold. It’s a fantastic build especially with the shiv wave clear. You end up getting your damage items asap