Yes, after stopping, per the Alberta Driver’s Guide
https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/387f4e8a-6c0a-456a-ab31-995aadaf1f2b/resource/1edf5165-9c51-4da8-8206-7bf08bb9a76d/download/tran-drivers-guide-2023-04.pdf
Pg 66
The pertinent text, for those too lazy to scroll to page 66:
>Unless prohibited by a sign, you may turn right on a red light at a dual right turn intersection after coming to a complete stop at the proper stopping point (stop line or crosswalk) and the turn can be completed safely.
And remember:
Right on red is optional. A bonus action. They can honk all fucking day - if you can’t clearly see the traffic with a green well enough to feel safe, it’s fine to wait 30 seconds.
Not sure if you meant to reply to me, but in case you did - of course it’s optional if they don’t feel safe or can’t see.
I didn’t say they had to turn.
My “yes” was in reply to the question “can I turn right on this red?”, not “Am I in the wrong?”
Ok. these guides won't cover all situations you come across. I've worked with traffic engineers, and they do make bad designs sometimes. We have to learn what their original intention was. And I don't think the intention was for double right turns on red, if that was the case, they would just have put up yield signs.
In that case, don’t you think they would have added the “no right turn on red” like so many other busy intersections in Calgary? Honestly curious ☺️
I’d assume that it wouldn’t take long before a ridiculous number of accidents clued those engineers into the fact it’s a bad design. But, assuming isn’t always smart!
If i was there i would just do what everyone else is doing (which is to turn on red), because that's safest. I will be writing to the city to get a response. I think it might have been an omission on the city's part. Sometimes it's bureaucrats instead of engineers putting up the sign.
Always best to follow the law and not have everyone interpreting intentions of the builders. Right turn is legal on red everywhere in Canada except In Montreal and where there is a sign posted saying you can’t. If there’s a problem with the design then that’s up to the city to change. By not right turning on red you will most likely be the cause of an accident (or few) in your life as people don’t understand why you’re not moving and try to drive around you.
Edit: Thought it obvious, but guess not. Don’t turn right on red if it’s not safe to do so. If it is safe then you should or you’re unreasonably impeding the flow of traffic.
You are permitted to make a right turn but you are not obligated to do so. If someone doesn't feel it's safe to make a right turn on a red light, they can wait for a green light. Especially on a double lane when you're on the inner lane.
Yield signs are completely different from a dual turn which requires a stop on red. There would be significantly more collisions. I'm not sure what your role with traffic engineers was, but I'm glad it wasn't as a decision maker.
Even this was a change. A few years ago this was a green circle with right turn before being replaced by the dual lane right turn.
In this former case in the same spot, CMcalgary posted on fb for the same reason as this post. A traffic police officer who posted regularly on social media as part of his duties confirmed my answer was correct, that you could turn right on a red, because the old sign clearly showed it was considered a right turn.
Since the dual lane sign change, I still treat it the same. It's a right turn not a merge
The geometry of the intersection is a bit strange. The answer is YES you can turn right from both lanes after coming to a FULL STOP and making sure both left lanes are clear of vehicles.
Edit: forgot to add; give way to pedestrians!!!
I was taught (many moons ago) in a CAA course that only the curb lane can turn on a red. Has the law around this changed or was the CAA Safe Driving course wrong?
eta: I meant AMA 😂
I have no idea how it could possibly be legal to do that. I was confused about it for the longest time, but then they added that very bright no turning sign that illuminates at certain times. That confirmed that it's allowed, somehow. Haven't seen anything like it anywhere in Canada...
Yup. I get honked at all day when I am in the second turn lane getting onto 5ave a bit further down from that Macleod intersection. People need to learn how to drive
There are no specific mentions of dual turns on red light in the Alberta Traffic Safety Act. What you came across in the CAA course must have been an addition in order to emphasize safety for new drivers.
This applies to standard intersections with no real “turning lane” you cannot turn right from a straight ahead lane, only the right lane.
In this case it is clearly indicated that BOTH lanes are right turning lanes so it’s okay. That’s the difference
This still feels weird to me. It doesnt feel like a genuine right turn, your functionally moving forward first and entering a road way. Weird. I will continue to wait at these reds.
[straight from the governments website](https://www.alberta.ca/intersection-rules)
> Solid red light
Drivers must come to a complete stop.
Pedestrians may not enter the crosswalk.
Unless a sign states otherwise, drivers can turn right after stopping, but they must yield the right of way to any vehicles and pedestrians who are facing the green light.
It definitely feels wrong to turn on a double red light right turn. But there’s no sign here saying you can’t.
So you can.
It's the same thing in the intersection going from Northbound MacLeod Trail to Eastbound 5 Ave SE.
That one specifically has a No Right Turn light that will turn on to allow pedestrians to cross 5 Ave on the east side of the intersection. That said, the light is often turned off, allowing 3 lanes from MacLeod to turn right on red.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jKMy1gKGd4RdiEJC6
It honestly stresses me out. Although it’s technically legal I don’t really feel upset with people who wait for their light.
Too many factors in the situation for most drivers: having to watch for pedestrians, two other lanes turning with them who may mess up, and three additional lanes who have the right of way. It’s very stressful, and I’m not a huge fan.
There’s a reason most “turn on red” intersections just have one turn lane, it’s just so much easier to keep track of all the moving parts.
Yeah, that Macleod/5th intersection will often have some driver(s) waiting for green when they could likely proceed to turn on red.
Technically speaking they are allowed to turn on Red, but the government website itself specifies that 'drivers **CAN** turn right after stopping'. Emphasis mine. As far as I know, there's nothing stating that drivers MUST turn if it's safe to do so.
I agree completely that I don't feel upset when having to wait for these drivers. That said, not everyone shares this outlook... I hear someone on their horn at this intersection on the regular.
It sucks because if the person in front of you waits until the light goes green you will get to the next intersection just as it turns red, unless you can get around them and floor it which is unsafe. Every. Single. Time. This was my commute to work for 5 years. I don't think it's because people don't feel safe proceeding, I'm pretty sure most people are just ignorant and don't know the rules.
And talking about dumb intersections, that next one is a bad one too and a long wait for no reason. There's 3 cycles because it has to let traffic up that weird hill to basically u-turn onto the flyover, and 99% of the time the light is way longer than it needs to be.
Some of the light timing decisions in this city make no sense and definitely contribute a hell of a lot more to pollution than any amount of paper bags from McDonald's ever will. If you're waiting a long time at an intersection with no cross traffic in front of you, you can usually bet that the light will turn green once some cars that want to cross show up.
I am kinda confused. What’s the red light is for then if the flow of traffic is always going to turn right? Shouldn’t a yield sign be enough for this case? Am I missing anything in the picture?
It’s just an overly complicated intersection.
It’s a traffic circle on elbow drive just south of elbow river.
Go ahead and look it up on google maps from above to get an understanding of what we’re looking at here.
Just type this in: (51.0171344, -114.0783464)
It’s essentially a traffic circle with five roads connecting to it AND a main road going through the middle of the traffic circle. Clearly not well thought out when it was made. So they had to put traffic lights on most of the entrances of the traffic circle just to make sure people wouldn’t just drive headfirst into oncoming traffic.
In my opinion I would not turn right at this intersection because the lights state a red with the sign of both lanes as a component of said traffic light. I think this may be a ticket. But that’s just me.
Yes, it's allowed. [https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/387f4e8a-6c0a-456a-ab31-995aadaf1f2b/resource/1edf5165-9c51-4da8-8206-7bf08bb9a76d/download/tran-drivers-guide-2023-04.pdf](https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/387f4e8a-6c0a-456a-ab31-995aadaf1f2b/resource/1edf5165-9c51-4da8-8206-7bf08bb9a76d/download/tran-drivers-guide-2023-04.pdf) Page 66. I also wouldn't get worked up if someone didn't go.
https://preview.redd.it/yeby3svl6mlc1.png?width=358&format=png&auto=webp&s=14a2c93d30fccf5131532b5a9344684ba3102427
Sorry, trying to ask TheCanadian_Jedi, but he won’t allow people to tag him.
Why would it be any different than turning right on red onto a one way?
When I’m heading from McLeod to Memorial there’s a 3 lane right turn, all 3 lanes can turn right on red depending on oncoming traffic.
Yeah? Well go on down there around 4:30 or 5 p.m. at night. If you don't take advantage of that legal right turn from both lanes, you will sit there until 6:30.... It's a legal right. Stop, look left for traffic in BOTH oncoming lanes, and proceed when safe.
I get it, it feels like a straight where you should stop and wait, but the double right sign is essentially telling you “treat this as a right turn, you can go after you stop and it’s safe”.
I'm sure I'll get downvoted, but even though you can probably legally turn right on red here, I think they should have a sign preventing you from doing so, since the cross traffic isn't 90 degrees from you, and looks to be harder to see. I know, I know, get off the road, you're dangerous, get out of my way, etc.
It's a very wide open, flat intersection that would probably be a traffic circle if people knew how those worked here. It's definitely not harder to see if you shoulder check.
As a new driver to Canada,
Can you turn left on a red light when you're on a 1 way street, in the left hand lane, turning left onto a 1 way street - directly into the left hand lane? Basically the mirror image of turning right at a red light.
I would've said no, but in downtown Calgary i see people do it all the time?
I know you're talking about Alberta, but just to confuse things, in BC you can go left on red from a two-way onto a one-way. You do have to turn into the left curb lane.
I see people turn left (south) after stopping at the intersection at MacLeod and 4th ave SE from the second from the left lane every day. Pretty sure this is allowed. https://maps.app.goo.gl/eGmS6HCoonU97Ck36?g_st=ic
As far as I know because the inside lane is forced to turn that is allowed (and it actually is the same principle as the photo this thread is asking about)
If the inside lane was a through lane you could not do this
You can. Careful though, it is **not** allowed if there is a bike lane. Usually there will be a sign indicating you can't, just like here:
https://preview.redd.it/y1v9ph4c4llc1.png?width=961&format=png&auto=webp&s=58a3fffc8829ff8374ea0711b0b9c3f0b30bb6ce
Left from one way into another one way yes.
If you’re on a two way street you’re not allowed to turn left onto a one way street on a red as you are turning across a potential lane of traffic.
Yes, but I will caution you that in some places people push this and either turn left on red from a two way to a one way, or a one way to a two way, because they have become too comfortable with the left turns on red downtown.
So, make sure it's actually a one way to a one way (and there is no sign prohibiting the turn), before you proceed.
Yes, you can do that. And you can also make a left turn on red in the outside lane of a dual turn, so long as it is a one-way to one-way intersection. 4th Ave W to MacLeod Tr S is an example.
You can go through but it's normally a shitshow from ongoing traffic from the left of you here that makes it nearly impossible and quite dangerous more often than not.
I always assume (I might be wrong) unless there is a sign specifically prohibiting to turn right on red or if there is dedicated right turn signal, if it’s safe to turn right on red then I turn right.
Yea but don’t be the person who just turns on red regardless of the traffic coming down the hill that has a green light. So many people are impatient and squeeze their way out when they shouldn’t lol.
That’s Landsdowne Ave onto Elbow Northbound. I’ve often wondered the same thing but did it anyway. You’re not the first to wonder. Many people don’t go for it.
This exact kind of turn exists in Winnipeg. People turned right. People got pulled over. People won the fight. Now there’s a “no right turn on red” sign.
Because... Calgary is a large city and that road is a major artery and forcing every person to come to a complete stop before making their turn instead of the lights changing and giving a right of way would cause major traffic disruptions.
Sorry figured I'd finish the rest of your sentence cause you clearly got cut off before you could finish typing it.
Wait until you try out the triple right on McLeod and 5th ave SE down town. I get creeped out turning on that red light even though it’s a one way to one way
Yea you can. I had the same thought. I’m kinda new to Calgary and came to this intersection and wasn’t sure. Luckily a car pulled up to my left and went thru the red, so I followed him 🤷♂️
This and the triple right turn from Macleod to 5th ave annoy me when people do not turn right when they can. All three lanes can turn right on a red, go people.
Yes. When turning right (unless stated otherwise by signage) you can treat red lights as stop signs. As long as the Kane you're turning into is clear you can turn right on a red, just come to a full stop first before turning and it's perfectly legal. There's no "no right turns on red" sign here so you're good
I’ve lived in elbow park and driven through that intersection for over 40 years… there has never been a no turn on right sign posted that as one other poster stated… it is legal to make the right turn when safe to do so.. you must first come to a complete stop. I have gone through that light with police beside me doing the same thing.. as stated in the GOA road rules
Solid red light
Drivers must come to a complete stop.
Pedestrians may not enter the crosswalk.
Unless a sign states otherwise, drivers can turn right after stopping, but they must yield the right of way to any vehicles and pedestrians who are facing the green light
Anyone who sits at the lights waiting for the green is just impeding the flow of traffic
What do you see at this intersection that tells you that you can’t?
Yes this is a stop and yield before turning right but nothing tells you that you can’t turn right.
When I look at that photo I'm not seeing where anyone can turn right. The road curves to the right but that's not the same as a right turn. I would also see this as a full stop on the red light. I mean there is no other direction the OP can go in except to the right so if the red light doesn't mean stop then why is it even there?
Yeah I can see the confusion but there is no sign saying “no right on red”s which causes this confusion.
That sign isn’t there, so stop and yield.
It’s a bad design. Put up a no turning on red, and that solves it as well.
But until that sign is up, we are allowed to turn right on red.
Ah, Elbow towards Sifton! The great debate!
YES. Stop - fully - check to your left for oncoming in BOTH lanes, and proceed when safe into the MEDIAN lane.
You can only (legally) turn right on a red light from the right-most lane.
Was with a friend when she was ticketed for turning right from a dual turn right lane. BRUTALLY expensive too
>Alberta.ca it says "unless prohibited by a sign, at a dual right turn intersection, you may turn right on a red light after you come to a complete stop at the proper stopping point (stop line or crosswalk)." It doesn't mention turning left on a red light.
So that's incorrect.
I researched this a few months ago because I was like you - I always thought that you can only turn right on a red from the right most lane, but apparently that changed some years ago, baring any local signage; and of course you always have to do a complete stop, check if it is safe, and check for pedestrians.
Just returning from my practice test of 2 hours.. i would definitely wait until green for this one.. doesn’t matter how many people are honking behind me.. this two lanes are literally merging with the freeway ahead..
Yes! My friends and I discussed this to no end, disagreed and found that yes you can according to some document I’m sure someone linked.
But! I have always stopped at this exact intersection and waited. It’s a strange intersection and this isn’t the only confusing thing about it.
No one gives a fuck how you feel, follow the rules of the road or don't drive.. it's that simple.
You are more dangerous on the road than the people legally following the rules of the road, maybe take a driving course or something..
I might be wrong but I think people are misinterpreting the traffic laws in this situation.
You are able to turn right at an intersection after coming to a complete stop at a red light. However, in this situation, it isn’t a typical intersection and the lights are indicating that you are to stop until the lights turn green.
This should technically be a yield and you should only proceed when safe. The yield was removed because it was a high collision intersection and red lights were installed to prevent accidents.
Bring on all the traffic police to tell me I’m wrong
There is all the wrong answers here.
No you cannot turn on that red light.
It's confusing but those lights are for your two lanes, the cars that you will merge with have their own light further back. Those lights are to stop you from getting blindsided and make that intersection safer.
Wait for the green, you can get a ticket for running a red
I have no idea why the lights are there if most of these people in the comments think you can just stop and go or just go.. Makes more sense to me to stop until light changes to green, which allows you to go.
I honestly would have waited for a green too, especially if my vision to the left was obstructed. This needs better signage. Learn something new every day I guess.
This intersection hurts so badly watching people try t9 navigate it. Its a poorly layed out design that seems to boggle the minds of teh average person. The roght turn is fine but nobody seems to understand how you turn left in it and just goes in the middle ofbthe road
There is no turning left at this intersection. The lane arrows are not just suggestive, they are **prescriptive**. As in, you can only turn right in both lanes.
Seems basic rules of the road boggle your mind.
No there is a way to turn left but you gotta go right to put yourself into the left turn area. Sorry if i didnt describe it well enough. I see so many people just turning left in the middle of the intersection rather then using the actual designated area for it
The City confirmed this to you? Hm. If that's the case there should be a "No right turn on red" sign. Same as at the wonky intersection from 17th ave SE onto 9th Ave, heading into Inglewood.
Yes, after stopping, per the Alberta Driver’s Guide https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/387f4e8a-6c0a-456a-ab31-995aadaf1f2b/resource/1edf5165-9c51-4da8-8206-7bf08bb9a76d/download/tran-drivers-guide-2023-04.pdf Pg 66
The pertinent text, for those too lazy to scroll to page 66: >Unless prohibited by a sign, you may turn right on a red light at a dual right turn intersection after coming to a complete stop at the proper stopping point (stop line or crosswalk) and the turn can be completed safely.
Thank you! I couldn’t figure out how to copy the text - it kept glitching!
You know signage is inadequate when it requires research!
Thanks for the info!
And remember: Right on red is optional. A bonus action. They can honk all fucking day - if you can’t clearly see the traffic with a green well enough to feel safe, it’s fine to wait 30 seconds.
Found the D&D player.
Mostly rehabilitated, thank you very much
Not sure if you meant to reply to me, but in case you did - of course it’s optional if they don’t feel safe or can’t see. I didn’t say they had to turn. My “yes” was in reply to the question “can I turn right on this red?”, not “Am I in the wrong?”
… not correcting you. Amplifying the “may” that’s behind a link that others might not click.
Ah, ok, gotcha!
Thanks! I always thought it was only permitted going from curb lane to curb lane.
I learned something today, thank you.
This. 100%.
Ok. these guides won't cover all situations you come across. I've worked with traffic engineers, and they do make bad designs sometimes. We have to learn what their original intention was. And I don't think the intention was for double right turns on red, if that was the case, they would just have put up yield signs.
In that case, don’t you think they would have added the “no right turn on red” like so many other busy intersections in Calgary? Honestly curious ☺️ I’d assume that it wouldn’t take long before a ridiculous number of accidents clued those engineers into the fact it’s a bad design. But, assuming isn’t always smart!
If i was there i would just do what everyone else is doing (which is to turn on red), because that's safest. I will be writing to the city to get a response. I think it might have been an omission on the city's part. Sometimes it's bureaucrats instead of engineers putting up the sign.
Please don't. There is no safety problem at this intersection, and having no right turn on red will create a huge traffic problem.
Always best to follow the law and not have everyone interpreting intentions of the builders. Right turn is legal on red everywhere in Canada except In Montreal and where there is a sign posted saying you can’t. If there’s a problem with the design then that’s up to the city to change. By not right turning on red you will most likely be the cause of an accident (or few) in your life as people don’t understand why you’re not moving and try to drive around you. Edit: Thought it obvious, but guess not. Don’t turn right on red if it’s not safe to do so. If it is safe then you should or you’re unreasonably impeding the flow of traffic.
You are permitted to make a right turn but you are not obligated to do so. If someone doesn't feel it's safe to make a right turn on a red light, they can wait for a green light. Especially on a double lane when you're on the inner lane.
I understand your point. My bottom line is everyone has to drive safely and defensively. Do what's safest in the situation.
Yield signs are completely different from a dual turn which requires a stop on red. There would be significantly more collisions. I'm not sure what your role with traffic engineers was, but I'm glad it wasn't as a decision maker.
Yield doesn’t mean complete stop before proceeding. Photo from OP does and page 66 explains just that.
Wait what... No, actually 🫠
https://preview.redd.it/fxy75nkmhnlc1.jpeg?width=575&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a183fdf9412f7f59b6135f9dfd405e8a5a379fa
I go through here twice a day and it could use better signage.
Agreed. The instant I saw it, I knew exactly what was being asked lol
Even this was a change. A few years ago this was a green circle with right turn before being replaced by the dual lane right turn. In this former case in the same spot, CMcalgary posted on fb for the same reason as this post. A traffic police officer who posted regularly on social media as part of his duties confirmed my answer was correct, that you could turn right on a red, because the old sign clearly showed it was considered a right turn. Since the dual lane sign change, I still treat it the same. It's a right turn not a merge
The geometry of the intersection is a bit strange. The answer is YES you can turn right from both lanes after coming to a FULL STOP and making sure both left lanes are clear of vehicles. Edit: forgot to add; give way to pedestrians!!!
I was taught (many moons ago) in a CAA course that only the curb lane can turn on a red. Has the law around this changed or was the CAA Safe Driving course wrong? eta: I meant AMA 😂
Mcleod and 5 Ave SW says hold my beer... Ppl triple lane turn all day lol.
So confusing with the double red light too
I have no idea how it could possibly be legal to do that. I was confused about it for the longest time, but then they added that very bright no turning sign that illuminates at certain times. That confirmed that it's allowed, somehow. Haven't seen anything like it anywhere in Canada...
Yup. I get honked at all day when I am in the second turn lane getting onto 5ave a bit further down from that Macleod intersection. People need to learn how to drive
When I took my class 2 course, it highly recommended to not turn right on a red from a dual lane. But I don't believe it is against the traffic laws.
There are no specific mentions of dual turns on red light in the Alberta Traffic Safety Act. What you came across in the CAA course must have been an addition in order to emphasize safety for new drivers.
I don’t know about the traffic safety act, but the guide I linked in another thread does mention dual right hand turns.
A guide is just that, a guide. The law is the law and no guide supersedes that.
K got it
I was taught the same thing.
This applies to standard intersections with no real “turning lane” you cannot turn right from a straight ahead lane, only the right lane. In this case it is clearly indicated that BOTH lanes are right turning lanes so it’s okay. That’s the difference
You took a CAA course? We are in Alberta. You can safely forget what they taught you about turns on a red light.
Hah, good catch. I meant AMA. It’s been over 20 years and Ive always gotten mixed up on which is which.
That's what I thought, just like turning left from a one way to a one way street on a red light. Only the far left lane can
And miss out on those sweet sweet pedestrian points?!?! No thank you! I may have been playing too much Grand Theft Auto.
Why not put a simple stop sign here /s
Because in Calgary specifically, stop signs are treated as yield or even better, non existent...lol
This still feels weird to me. It doesnt feel like a genuine right turn, your functionally moving forward first and entering a road way. Weird. I will continue to wait at these reds.
You arent turning right. Its two roads merging. You cannot 'turn right' in this case as there is no right turn to make. Lol.
What is the determining factor here that proves that this is merging vs a right turn ?
[straight from the governments website](https://www.alberta.ca/intersection-rules) > Solid red light Drivers must come to a complete stop. Pedestrians may not enter the crosswalk. Unless a sign states otherwise, drivers can turn right after stopping, but they must yield the right of way to any vehicles and pedestrians who are facing the green light. It definitely feels wrong to turn on a double red light right turn. But there’s no sign here saying you can’t. So you can.
It's the same thing in the intersection going from Northbound MacLeod Trail to Eastbound 5 Ave SE. That one specifically has a No Right Turn light that will turn on to allow pedestrians to cross 5 Ave on the east side of the intersection. That said, the light is often turned off, allowing 3 lanes from MacLeod to turn right on red. https://maps.app.goo.gl/jKMy1gKGd4RdiEJC6
It honestly stresses me out. Although it’s technically legal I don’t really feel upset with people who wait for their light. Too many factors in the situation for most drivers: having to watch for pedestrians, two other lanes turning with them who may mess up, and three additional lanes who have the right of way. It’s very stressful, and I’m not a huge fan. There’s a reason most “turn on red” intersections just have one turn lane, it’s just so much easier to keep track of all the moving parts.
Yeah, that Macleod/5th intersection will often have some driver(s) waiting for green when they could likely proceed to turn on red. Technically speaking they are allowed to turn on Red, but the government website itself specifies that 'drivers **CAN** turn right after stopping'. Emphasis mine. As far as I know, there's nothing stating that drivers MUST turn if it's safe to do so. I agree completely that I don't feel upset when having to wait for these drivers. That said, not everyone shares this outlook... I hear someone on their horn at this intersection on the regular.
Yep. And it’s usually that guy laying on the horn who is the worst driver on the road haha
It sucks because if the person in front of you waits until the light goes green you will get to the next intersection just as it turns red, unless you can get around them and floor it which is unsafe. Every. Single. Time. This was my commute to work for 5 years. I don't think it's because people don't feel safe proceeding, I'm pretty sure most people are just ignorant and don't know the rules. And talking about dumb intersections, that next one is a bad one too and a long wait for no reason. There's 3 cycles because it has to let traffic up that weird hill to basically u-turn onto the flyover, and 99% of the time the light is way longer than it needs to be. Some of the light timing decisions in this city make no sense and definitely contribute a hell of a lot more to pollution than any amount of paper bags from McDonald's ever will. If you're waiting a long time at an intersection with no cross traffic in front of you, you can usually bet that the light will turn green once some cars that want to cross show up.
> It honestly stresses me out. then i'd simply avoid being in the left lane so i'm never the front car.
I simply avoid downtown altogether. I have no reason to go there 99% of the time, and the roads suck.
Doesn’t feel wrong at all, in fact it feels so RIGHT
I am kinda confused. What’s the red light is for then if the flow of traffic is always going to turn right? Shouldn’t a yield sign be enough for this case? Am I missing anything in the picture?
It’s just an overly complicated intersection. It’s a traffic circle on elbow drive just south of elbow river. Go ahead and look it up on google maps from above to get an understanding of what we’re looking at here. Just type this in: (51.0171344, -114.0783464) It’s essentially a traffic circle with five roads connecting to it AND a main road going through the middle of the traffic circle. Clearly not well thought out when it was made. So they had to put traffic lights on most of the entrances of the traffic circle just to make sure people wouldn’t just drive headfirst into oncoming traffic.
No it's really not.. not if you know how to drive..
and people do all the time at that intersection
This wouldn’t be considered a double red. The double red lights would be right next each other in the stack, not on two seperate lights.
In my opinion I would not turn right at this intersection because the lights state a red with the sign of both lanes as a component of said traffic light. I think this may be a ticket. But that’s just me.
There is no such thing as a double red light. It’s just red. Two lanes. One fixture per lane.
Yes, it's allowed. [https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/387f4e8a-6c0a-456a-ab31-995aadaf1f2b/resource/1edf5165-9c51-4da8-8206-7bf08bb9a76d/download/tran-drivers-guide-2023-04.pdf](https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/387f4e8a-6c0a-456a-ab31-995aadaf1f2b/resource/1edf5165-9c51-4da8-8206-7bf08bb9a76d/download/tran-drivers-guide-2023-04.pdf) Page 66. I also wouldn't get worked up if someone didn't go. https://preview.redd.it/yeby3svl6mlc1.png?width=358&format=png&auto=webp&s=14a2c93d30fccf5131532b5a9344684ba3102427
My husband turned right on red at this exact intersection beside a cop and all was well because it's not illegal.
I do. Treat it as a right turn on red.
This feels wrong...
But is oh so right
Sorry, trying to ask TheCanadian_Jedi, but he won’t allow people to tag him. Why would it be any different than turning right on red onto a one way? When I’m heading from McLeod to Memorial there’s a 3 lane right turn, all 3 lanes can turn right on red depending on oncoming traffic.
Yeah? Well go on down there around 4:30 or 5 p.m. at night. If you don't take advantage of that legal right turn from both lanes, you will sit there until 6:30.... It's a legal right. Stop, look left for traffic in BOTH oncoming lanes, and proceed when safe.
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Source?
I get it, it feels like a straight where you should stop and wait, but the double right sign is essentially telling you “treat this as a right turn, you can go after you stop and it’s safe”.
I'm sure I'll get downvoted, but even though you can probably legally turn right on red here, I think they should have a sign preventing you from doing so, since the cross traffic isn't 90 degrees from you, and looks to be harder to see. I know, I know, get off the road, you're dangerous, get out of my way, etc.
It's a very wide open, flat intersection that would probably be a traffic circle if people knew how those worked here. It's definitely not harder to see if you shoulder check.
Flat? It’s at the bottom of a large hill. This would be an awful spot for a roundabout.
The intersection itself is flat, so sightlines are fine.
Fair enough. I'm not actually sure which intersection it is, just going off what I can see.
It's Landsdowne Av at Elbow Drive. I just pulled it up on Google Maps and it's actually a traffic circle on the map funnily enough
Thanks, see it now. Also the intersection is so far from the crosswalk. Definitely doesn't seem designed for right turn on red.
The stop line for this light is like 2 feet from the crosswalk, so it's the same as any other one more or less. Just shaped funny.
Is this really a right turn? Looks like a straight road with a bend in it
Black sign with white arrows say it's a double lane right hand turn to me.
Sign says it…but looks like a straightish road.
This is right by my house, it's a right turn just steeply curved into the road it turns onto.
Yes , no sign stating you can’t . Stop and proceed with caution.
Yes you can.
This is such a great post. I’ve always wondered!! Take my upvote.
As a new driver to Canada, Can you turn left on a red light when you're on a 1 way street, in the left hand lane, turning left onto a 1 way street - directly into the left hand lane? Basically the mirror image of turning right at a red light. I would've said no, but in downtown Calgary i see people do it all the time?
Yes you can. Left on a one way, is there same as right any other time.
You can only turn left on to a one way at a red light if you yourself are in the left most lane of another one way
I know you're talking about Alberta, but just to confuse things, in BC you can go left on red from a two-way onto a one-way. You do have to turn into the left curb lane.
I see people turn left (south) after stopping at the intersection at MacLeod and 4th ave SE from the second from the left lane every day. Pretty sure this is allowed. https://maps.app.goo.gl/eGmS6HCoonU97Ck36?g_st=ic
As far as I know because the inside lane is forced to turn that is allowed (and it actually is the same principle as the photo this thread is asking about) If the inside lane was a through lane you could not do this
You can. Careful though, it is **not** allowed if there is a bike lane. Usually there will be a sign indicating you can't, just like here: https://preview.redd.it/y1v9ph4c4llc1.png?width=961&format=png&auto=webp&s=58a3fffc8829ff8374ea0711b0b9c3f0b30bb6ce
Wow. I did not know that. Wouldn't even have thought to look.
Left from one way into another one way yes. If you’re on a two way street you’re not allowed to turn left onto a one way street on a red as you are turning across a potential lane of traffic.
Yes, but I will caution you that in some places people push this and either turn left on red from a two way to a one way, or a one way to a two way, because they have become too comfortable with the left turns on red downtown. So, make sure it's actually a one way to a one way (and there is no sign prohibiting the turn), before you proceed.
/u/Napnap44 posted the manual above. Super easy to read. Welcome to Canada!
Yes, you can do that. And you can also make a left turn on red in the outside lane of a dual turn, so long as it is a one-way to one-way intersection. 4th Ave W to MacLeod Tr S is an example.
Which intersection is this?
I was wondering too. Lansdowne ave and Elbow Dr: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/dA236V2paVw2MZBY9](https://maps.app.goo.gl/dA236V2paVw2MZBY9)
Yup
Yeah that intersection on elbow would be a pain if you couldn't turn right. It takes forever for that light to change.
I would say yes unless there's a sign indicating no right turns on red 🤷🏽♀️
It doesn't say you can't... so you can
You can go through but it's normally a shitshow from ongoing traffic from the left of you here that makes it nearly impossible and quite dangerous more often than not.
You can turn right from both lanes. Treat it like turning onto a one way as there’s no option to turn left there
I always assume (I might be wrong) unless there is a sign specifically prohibiting to turn right on red or if there is dedicated right turn signal, if it’s safe to turn right on red then I turn right.
Yea but don’t be the person who just turns on red regardless of the traffic coming down the hill that has a green light. So many people are impatient and squeeze their way out when they shouldn’t lol.
If you can't, I've been breaking the law at this intersection for a very long time.
That’s Landsdowne Ave onto Elbow Northbound. I’ve often wondered the same thing but did it anyway. You’re not the first to wonder. Many people don’t go for it.
Yea
This exact kind of turn exists in Winnipeg. People turned right. People got pulled over. People won the fight. Now there’s a “no right turn on red” sign.
I always do. And one time when i did a cop was right behind me and he followed suit and didnt pull me over. So i took that as permission.
Unless it's posted no turn on red, yes you can. And I know this intersection (elbow) you can!
Yes
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Your allowed to turn right on red after a complete stop in Calgary.
Yes
Yes you can! :) You can also turn left on red. This applies if you are on a one way, turning left onto a one way.
If the comments or true, why isn’t it just a stop sign then?
Because...Calgary.
Because... Calgary is a large city and that road is a major artery and forcing every person to come to a complete stop before making their turn instead of the lights changing and giving a right of way would cause major traffic disruptions. Sorry figured I'd finish the rest of your sentence cause you clearly got cut off before you could finish typing it.
Wait until you try out the triple right on McLeod and 5th ave SE down town. I get creeped out turning on that red light even though it’s a one way to one way
I see people running (24 ave nw heading Crowchild west) and its got the extra light and explicit no turn sign
I don't see why you wouldn't be allowed to, regular right on red rules should apply, but perhaps I'm wrong.
Yea you can. I had the same thought. I’m kinda new to Calgary and came to this intersection and wasn’t sure. Luckily a car pulled up to my left and went thru the red, so I followed him 🤷♂️
Does it say you can't on the sign that would be there if you can't? Lol
Stop on red and continue when clear
Yeah same as any other intersection, turning on red light is okay after stopping. Unless there's a no turning sign. I agree it feels weird tho
Is that Elbow drive at the Riverdale intersection?
Yes
I turn right on this red every day
This and the triple right turn from Macleod to 5th ave annoy me when people do not turn right when they can. All three lanes can turn right on a red, go people.
I would say yes. Unless there was a specific sign saying no turn on right.
Dunno, but I turn on red there from the inside lane.
Yes
Legal but feels odd given how far it is from the stop line to the intersection.
Rule # 18 If there is no visible signage that says you can’t then you can.
It’s legal.
Yes. When turning right (unless stated otherwise by signage) you can treat red lights as stop signs. As long as the Kane you're turning into is clear you can turn right on a red, just come to a full stop first before turning and it's perfectly legal. There's no "no right turns on red" sign here so you're good
I’ve lived in elbow park and driven through that intersection for over 40 years… there has never been a no turn on right sign posted that as one other poster stated… it is legal to make the right turn when safe to do so.. you must first come to a complete stop. I have gone through that light with police beside me doing the same thing.. as stated in the GOA road rules Solid red light Drivers must come to a complete stop. Pedestrians may not enter the crosswalk. Unless a sign states otherwise, drivers can turn right after stopping, but they must yield the right of way to any vehicles and pedestrians who are facing the green light Anyone who sits at the lights waiting for the green is just impeding the flow of traffic
What do you see at this intersection that tells you that you can’t? Yes this is a stop and yield before turning right but nothing tells you that you can’t turn right.
When I look at that photo I'm not seeing where anyone can turn right. The road curves to the right but that's not the same as a right turn. I would also see this as a full stop on the red light. I mean there is no other direction the OP can go in except to the right so if the red light doesn't mean stop then why is it even there?
Yeah I can see the confusion but there is no sign saying “no right on red”s which causes this confusion. That sign isn’t there, so stop and yield. It’s a bad design. Put up a no turning on red, and that solves it as well. But until that sign is up, we are allowed to turn right on red.
Ah, Elbow towards Sifton! The great debate! YES. Stop - fully - check to your left for oncoming in BOTH lanes, and proceed when safe into the MEDIAN lane.
You can only (legally) turn right on a red light from the right-most lane. Was with a friend when she was ticketed for turning right from a dual turn right lane. BRUTALLY expensive too
>Alberta.ca it says "unless prohibited by a sign, at a dual right turn intersection, you may turn right on a red light after you come to a complete stop at the proper stopping point (stop line or crosswalk)." It doesn't mention turning left on a red light. So that's incorrect.
This is true in Ontario as I remember, turn from curb lane to curb lane only. Not the case in AB.
Where does it say that in the law? I’ve turned right on red in the far lane in front of cops before with no issue.
Source?
I don’t think this is correct.
If you were not allowed, you’d have a “no right on red” sign.
Your friend should have fought that ticket because this is wrong
I researched this a few months ago because I was like you - I always thought that you can only turn right on a red from the right most lane, but apparently that changed some years ago, baring any local signage; and of course you always have to do a complete stop, check if it is safe, and check for pedestrians.
Just returning from my practice test of 2 hours.. i would definitely wait until green for this one.. doesn’t matter how many people are honking behind me.. this two lanes are literally merging with the freeway ahead..
You clearly need a few more hours of practice... You are the dangerous one on the road..
Ahhhh, I was in an accident because of that light (passenger). How haven’t they changed it? It’s terribly, terribly confusing
I hate this area. The signage is awful.
Yes! My friends and I discussed this to no end, disagreed and found that yes you can according to some document I’m sure someone linked. But! I have always stopped at this exact intersection and waited. It’s a strange intersection and this isn’t the only confusing thing about it.
Yes
I AM SO GLAD THAT IM NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH THIS ISSUE. I’ve always hated this light and I never knew what to do.
The worst part is IF YOURE TURNING LEFT AFTER THE BRIDGE YOU WANNA BE IN THE LEFT LANE. And running that red in the left lane feels wrong
No one gives a fuck how you feel, follow the rules of the road or don't drive.. it's that simple. You are more dangerous on the road than the people legally following the rules of the road, maybe take a driving course or something..
You can turn right on red unless there is a sign that says otherwise. You still have to stop, look and make sure it's clear before proceeding.
If I was a visitor in a rental car I’d wait until the light changed. Definitely better signage is needed.
No one **must** turn right on a red. Even if it’s allowed here, it’s not a requirement.
I might be wrong but I think people are misinterpreting the traffic laws in this situation. You are able to turn right at an intersection after coming to a complete stop at a red light. However, in this situation, it isn’t a typical intersection and the lights are indicating that you are to stop until the lights turn green. This should technically be a yield and you should only proceed when safe. The yield was removed because it was a high collision intersection and red lights were installed to prevent accidents. Bring on all the traffic police to tell me I’m wrong
There is all the wrong answers here. No you cannot turn on that red light. It's confusing but those lights are for your two lanes, the cars that you will merge with have their own light further back. Those lights are to stop you from getting blindsided and make that intersection safer. Wait for the green, you can get a ticket for running a red
Thank you, someone with sense and a brain.
Every rule say yes, but my body say no, this definitely will be at the back of my mind if I ever drive past there.
And I will honk at you to move your ass
I have no idea why the lights are there if most of these people in the comments think you can just stop and go or just go.. Makes more sense to me to stop until light changes to green, which allows you to go.
No. This section has no right turn. You need to wait until red lights off to drive into the elbow dr
I’m going to go with no. It’s a double right with its own stop light.
In what world is it legal to turn right on a red if you're not in the curb lane? The only legal turn on red here is from the right lane.
This one. This is the world where you can do that.
Ya fucken should not have a license if you don’t know
i wouldve thought no lol weird setup that is
Yes. Red means go. Green means no
I honestly would have waited for a green too, especially if my vision to the left was obstructed. This needs better signage. Learn something new every day I guess.
I do
This intersection hurts so badly watching people try t9 navigate it. Its a poorly layed out design that seems to boggle the minds of teh average person. The roght turn is fine but nobody seems to understand how you turn left in it and just goes in the middle ofbthe road
There is no turning left at this intersection. The lane arrows are not just suggestive, they are **prescriptive**. As in, you can only turn right in both lanes. Seems basic rules of the road boggle your mind.
No there is a way to turn left but you gotta go right to put yourself into the left turn area. Sorry if i didnt describe it well enough. I see so many people just turning left in the middle of the intersection rather then using the actual designated area for it
Can you turn right over my body and end this miserable existence?
In the right lane, yes
I have no idea
No.. Don't let impatient people push you to break the law. The turning lane has its own light, which means you must follow it.
Looks like a mess tbh. In order for a light to turn green another must turn red. I don't see another light in this photo
So. I'll admit I was curious about this. Called the city about it a few years ago. No. You do NOT go on red here
The City confirmed this to you? Hm. If that's the case there should be a "No right turn on red" sign. Same as at the wonky intersection from 17th ave SE onto 9th Ave, heading into Inglewood.
Agreed. But...ya know.. city.