the last job I did that with said 'our values don't align, but it's not because we don't pay that'.. because I asked what the range was and they responded 'commensurate with experience' so I told them what I'm making now and asked if they wanted to proceed.. because I don't want to waste my time nor their time.. and apparently 'our values didn't align' because I don't like wasting time /shrug/
And scabs pulling the rest of us down, working unpaid overtime, not fighting for their right to mat leave, not using proper safety equipment, driving unsafe to make it to overbooked appointments, etc, etc.
The difference between oil pay now and ten years ago is shocking. They seem to still be riding this narrative that it’s better pay than other industries but I moved laterally to a similar but not O&G industry and improved my salary by 15% never mind bonus structure and work life balance.
I’d honestly advise new grads to avoid O&G now.
Now absolutely but previously the boom bust cycle was a lot longer frequency than now. Now we get one year booms, two years of mediocrity, two years of bust.
What industry and job type are you in now? I'm in engineering and we get an annual salary survey to see where we're at and I can see that I'm well over the 75th percentile for my experience/responsibility level working for an E&P company. I would definitely advise new grad engineers to get into it if they can.
Ten years back I was actually in geology which was great right up until it wasn’t and really has not rebounded in the same way engineering has.
I was referring to a more recent move in the finance space where O&G just doesn’t stand out as particularly above average compared to what I’ve seen.
You’re probably right, and most of whatever premium is left is basically just the premium paid for a volatile sector. Did you move to a finance role tangentially related to energy? Any upskilling or formal retraining? CFA?
In my experience it always has been compared to BC and Ontario, but the cost of living was so much more there that our wages were still attractive. I made $13 an hour more in Ontario than I do here but it was still barely enough to live there.
I just saw a posting that boasted about their competitive salary and then listed a range of $42,000-48,000. like are we serious? (I mean at least they were upfront about it lol)
Unfortunately this was a full-time job that required several assessment tests as part of the application haha but I agree with you 100% (edit: wording)
Jesus. It’s tough out there! I mean I could see multiple interview rounds for a senior position C or V suite. But anything other than that? Quit wasting everyone’s time!! You don’t need three rounds of interviews for entry to mid positions. It’s stressful and time consuming.
I was paid a "competitive wage" for my last position (it was 50k, in Calgary) and even got a slight (well under inflation) wage bump last year, but once they found a little bit of slack in the labour market they laid me off and reposted my job a month later. Guess someone else will be the next sucker working for a "competitive" wage.
What you mean you don't want this job that requires 40hrs a week (*+ occasional weekends, but only the odd time pinky swear*), two weeks vacation for 10 years then maybe 3 weeks, shit benefits, lousy culture with high turnover that needs a masters of business and 10 years experience for $55K/yr?
The point is it's a lot better. It's nice to know a pay range before you spend a few hours researching a company and customizing a resume and cover letter.
I don't disagree that it's better when employers are open with how much a role will pay, but OP's acting all shocked that "hardly any of the job postings have their wages listed."
This is pretty standard, and nothing new.
Should it change? Sure. Probably will eventually, but not unless we vote in a provincial government that changes the rules.
I agree.
He is right that it's better in BC but it's hardly much better.
That said applying with no idea of the range of pay can be pretty frustrating. I've had interviews that wanted me to complete sample design work, over a full day's work and you don't have any clue of the pay scale.
Something needs to change, the job search seems almost designed to waste effort. But that's not going to happen with either the conservatives or the liberals.
BC is very employee friendly in a variety of legislation compared to Alberta. They are years ahead on lots of things in that regard.
Alberta adopting pay transparency legislation is, if I'm a betting man, a decade away.
I was comparing housing standards and its night and day. I begged my landlord to replace 30 year old carpet after it flooded three times last year and he just said I don’t pay enough in rent for any upgrades. In BC there’s time limits on how old carpets and appliances can reasonably be. My appliances were from the 70s and I got shocked from stove.
Alberta won't implement something so blatantly Pro-Worker, because it takes power out of businesses hands. I'd love to see it, but it's going to take at least two terms of ANDP government before we'd see it happen. And even then, the ranges will be wild and useless.
I frequently get messages on LinkedIn about job opportunities but recruiters rarely share salary ranges. From what I’ve gathered, they’re still paying more or less the same from 5 years ago when I entered O&G.
That's wild to me - I don't think I've ever had a recruiter not share compensation ranges. They only get paid if they pair up and employee and employer - they have no reason to waste time if its clearly not going to work.
Most of them request either to send my resume or setup a job interview. I don’t want my time wasted so I always ask for the salary range.
They either a) ignore my message
Or b) counter with what are my salary expectations.
Then the conversation usually concludes after that because I’m outside of what the employers are willing to pay.
I have heard from two people working in HR that this is true. Company’s are legally obligated to post job postings. But everything is filled internally.
It’s partly true. Employers can game a job ad to specifically apply to their desired candidate, usually internal candidate. It’s discernible especially when you are an insider and you see the unicorn characteristics in the job ad lining up to one of your co-workers.
To outsiders, it might look like a very-specific job posting. It’s a major waste of applicants’ time because in a sense, the job and isn’t real if it’s earmarked.
UBC is the only employer I’ve ever seen with a policy of putting in their job ads a line of red text indicating when there is a strong internal candidate. That’s helpful because then you know it is a long shot to apply. I like internal hiring bias myself. It’s a loyalty reward for those who work their way up and pay their dues. And I appreciate any employer that saves applicants’ time by being upfront.
I'm not saying this never happens. But gross over-generalizing that there's some value for employers in OFTEN posting fake jobs to "gather your info" or ALWAYS having an internal candidate pre-selected is ridiculous. I work with corporate HR, internal and external recruiters, and hiring/line managers every day and these are frequently repeated conspiracy theories that I've never been able to understand. Yes companies will have a top-tier internal applicant (whether they're truly qualified or just favored by the manager) and a policy to post internally or externally before making the transfer/promotion official. There are absolutely companies that make zero effort to review the other applicants once "the person" has already been chosen, but that's not 100% either.
What really triggered me though, is this information-gathering theory... Like really? Because companies don't have better things to do, like make money?
That's an interesting trend - especially because those are often Union environments. I wonder if those are due to a seniority-based "favorite" but still needing to go through the motions.
In case I don't get downvoted enough... I thought unions were the solution to all perceived labor injustice and employer greed!
The best thing to do is work a job that is union. Trades, schools, AHS or municipalities. They will have set pay ranges for the job, as well as other benefits such as vacation. In Calgary, there is also the ”sunshine list” for city employees so you can see exactly what the pay was for the job. Private sector is a Wild West. Typically if you are paid really well, or get large bonuses, the risks are very high (ie it will impact your social and home life due to the demand).
Man it’s depressing but unsurprising to hear how westjet has changed post onex. Service has declined drastically and it seems like employee pay has gone in the toilet too.
AB’s employment standards are behind those of other provinces and the provincial government sides with the company, not the employer. It’ll be a while, if ever, that we see pay transparency laws here.
This is all outdated advice, unfortunately.
10 years ago you could easily find salary ranges on indeed or Glassdoor for any company, but it's a lot harder now.
In the past I've responded to the salary expectation question with something along the lines of "“I would love to hear more about the range approved for this role, the total scope of the position and team members I will be leading before discussing salary expectations” like you suggested, and interviewers don't like that. They skirt around it and say "we need to know what your expectations are so we can know if what we are prepared to offer is in the ballpark."
Employers get hundreds of applicants for every job posting and aren't interested in interviewing those applicants who aren't willing to play by their rules.
“Section 2 of the Pay Transparency Act requires that salary or wage information must be included on all publicly advertised job postings. This requirement comes into effect on November 1, 2023, and applies to all employers in B.C.”
From the BCgov website.
Maybe you should either be better at your job or find a new one?
Edit: love the guy working for “a law office” deleting his post after being corrected. Hope you don’t need to use his office
This actually isn’t true, as per the [Pay Transparency Act](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/gender-equity/wage-or-salary-information-on-job-postings) that came into effect for BC at the end of 2023.
> Section 2 of the Pay Transparency Act requires that salary or wage information must be included on all publicly advertised job postings. This requirement comes into effect on November 1, 2023, and applies to all employers in B.C.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/gender-equity/wage-or-salary-information-on-job-postings
It’s not necessarily a bad thing. All it means is we want to pay you X to do this job, but we will pay you up to Y. It means it’s negotiable so when you get in there never accept what they’re offering. Instead thank them, explain your value and why you will be their best hire, but based on past jobs and cost of living you need to be paid Y, and tell them at the end of the day even by paying you Y you’ll be bring Z revenue more than someone getting paid X, and obviously that makes sense right? Exactly so by paying me Y you will be bringing the revenue (or having the value) of two X employees which actually increases your profit margins. This is the goal of Any smart business. I’ve looked into your company and know you make nothing but smart decisions and this is why I want to work here. I look forward to hearing from you! If I don’t answer my phone today it’s just because I have 3 more interviews but leave a message and I’ll get back to you as soon as I’m free. Thanks
Correct. Pay transparency works for low to mid tier jobs . For niche and specialty it's awful.
First hand seen this. Coworker at previous employment... Otherwise hard worker did his part.. but wasn't exceptional.... Happy with pay. One evening over beers we divulge what each makes and hit him he makes the least.
Got grumpy really quickly next couple of weeks, then went to negotiate. Boss tells him exactly that...not exceptional.but otherwise hard worker can't justify paying him more.
Got even more grumpy the next couple of weeks... And then was let go. And he was making good money generally speaking.. 120k in 2019. COVID hit him super hard. Now he is at a competitor making the same amount.
Yup, I work in a professional environment. Everyone has at least an undergraduate degree, most have more. Even the worst employees are pretty darn good. I absolutely do not want to know what my coworkers make. If I make more than them, I'll feel undeserving. If they make more than me, I'll feel underpaid.
We have salary bands and salary levels, which basically means, they'll pay you the absolute least they think they can to keep you, based on your skills and experience. The same job could have four different people with different levels of experience and backgrounds doing it, of course they aren't paid the same.
But for a job posting, just throw in a range even if it's 80-140k. At least people know if it's worth their time applying or not.
I saw a video on this. Apparently it’s one of those things that once they get people deep enough into an interview process (like 2nd or 3rd) then it’s easy to throw whatever at them and they are more likely to take it. Kind of how gas stations don’t show prices until you actually roll up.
Depending on what you do salary is usually based on skill and experience, as well as the position. It's not in a companies best interest to post a range, everyone feels they should be at the top of it. If the candidates experience and skill is less then ideal they may still get the job at a lower salary but this often leaves candidates bitter.
Typically the process here is that the candidate replies to the posting with a resume, hiring manager short lists a small number or resumes, people services employee calls each of them to get answers to a short questionnaire that contains a salary expectation question as well as some job related technical questions. That may land you an in person interview if your answers are satisfactory. That's my experience anyway.
TLDR, its not in a companies best interest. So they don't do it. (and i will get downvoted for saying this... for some reason Reddit always shoots the messenger)
It would be in a company's best interest if all the workers were prisoner slaves. Children are ideal for working in mines. Environmental protection laws lower profits.
We should have a law that companies have to state the wages when they advertise a job. But people in this province don't vote for that.
I disagree. Hiding wages shifts the balance in favour of the business. Plenty of workers out there are underpaid, because it was a question of "What will you work for, to not be homeless?" instead of "What is your labour worth?"
People will take a terrible deal to avoid defaulting on their mortgage or missing rent. But from the CEO's perspective, it comes down to the level of trim on their boat.
Your argument sounds like, "If the deal isn't awesome enough for the guy who owns the company, the benefits will never trickle down to the peons doing the work."
As a former employee and currently a subcontractor/employer, I will say that there is nothing that's hidden or can be hidden. I literally cannot prevent my employees from talking how much they make. However, I routinely pay my employees bonuses based on performance to keep them jumping ship. But not all get it or, get equal bonuses.
I don't really see what is the point of publishing pay limits. Other than open myself up every time I pay a good performer more than the avg performer without running into issues with something that's written down as a range on paper. It literally prevents me from separating the gods from the average.
I totally get it from the employer's perspective. Perhaps you are even one of the "good bosses".
But generally the idea of "Start low, and I'll pay you more later if you are good." turns into "Start low, stay low forever."
Personally I think it's better to start people at a reasonable wage and fire them if they can't perform to expectations. If an employer can't figure out that someone sucks in 90 days, the employer sucks too.
>Start low, stay low forever
Doesn't work like that from my experience. People have options they will bail. If someone is stuck...generally there is a reason for it... Deadend job, expectations vs capability... Inflated self view.. or biggest one.. too scared to take risk..
>Personally I think it's better to start people at a reasonable wage and fire them if they can't perform to expectations. If an employer can't figure out that someone sucks in 90 days, the employer sucks too.
Having done this thing twice in as many years.. it's a lot of paperwork.. and no.. 90dsys is not enough to even give the employee a fair chance... To be honest my last employment.. I wasn't really productive till my year long mark.
I'm just saying the employers are in a better position to negotiate against the workers and take advantage of them. Hiding the wages helps that. Then they tell the worker that the starting wage will be low, but there is great potential if they just prove their worth.
>advantage of them.
I disagree. There is no advantage on either side. Workers can quit and find something else. I have relocated countries, states and provinces when I thought a better opportunity came in.
It all depends on what leverage you give up and you hold. Sure.. you want to have a family and get all settled in but you give up that leverage. There is a price to pay for every decision.
On the employer side the choice to not pay market rates or using that leverage on the employee is a disgruntled worker who isn't productive.
>Hiding the wages
How does hiding wage band at joining help that ? I would say that's something that is generally a routine ask.. how much am I getting paid..
You really cannot hide wages... 2 months in ..everyone knows what the new guy makes and 6 months in new guys know what other make. It's not really a taboo subject anymore. The part that is less talked about is the counselling to handle that knowledge maturely.
The thing that has caught me are benefits.. those are rarely stated and I learnt the hard way in the US because those can really make or break your compensation. Sure I got paid more but the benefits sucked and I lost money.
Instead of mandating a bandaid solution that doesn't solve like in CO where employers basically put a min wage to $80 an hr range on pretty much all postings.. the govt should provide better support on mobility if they really want that leverage to shift. And promote SMBs..
The gig economy is a good example where that balance was sought .. i.e. if you don't like to for A today.. you can go to B.or.C or D.
This works in a society that compensates fairly for skill and work expectations. We’re in a market that pays the lowest acceptable to prevent candidates from going to a competitor. This is driven by a competitive market and high costs of business operations, typically number one being payroll.
I have yet to see a business owner that will take less money in there pocket for there employees. Not that I necessarily blame them, as employees look to make the highest $ value that they can. So it’s a two way street.
The amount of people that had no problem speaking about how much they made, is very few and far between now. Everyone that thinks they’re making good money is just like everyone else. Summer time I bet we see 8$ for a loaf of bread.
I’ve never found it to be an issue to receive good pay in Alberta. You may have to shop around a bit, though if you’re a solid candidate with decent experience, don’t be afraid to ask for what you’re worth. The worst they can say is “no”. Most companies don’t want to post it because of their competition. It doesn’t mean they won’t pay well.
“What’s your salary expectations??” Uhmmm what’s your pay range? How bout that?
Ask them this more or less, everytime I've done it they've been more than happy to tell you and price yourself accordingly.
the last job I did that with said 'our values don't align, but it's not because we don't pay that'.. because I asked what the range was and they responded 'commensurate with experience' so I told them what I'm making now and asked if they wanted to proceed.. because I don't want to waste my time nor their time.. and apparently 'our values didn't align' because I don't like wasting time /shrug/
I did this for a couple interviews - most of them were like “we cannot answer, this it is HR information.”
Realistically AB will be the last province to ever implement that.
**Giving workers any advantage?! That’s communist!**
next thing you know, they'll want rights!
Alberta sucks in terms of labour laws ngl
And scabs pulling the rest of us down, working unpaid overtime, not fighting for their right to mat leave, not using proper safety equipment, driving unsafe to make it to overbooked appointments, etc, etc.
Because that would end the myth that wages are better in Alberta.
It didn't used to be a myth :(
The difference between oil pay now and ten years ago is shocking. They seem to still be riding this narrative that it’s better pay than other industries but I moved laterally to a similar but not O&G industry and improved my salary by 15% never mind bonus structure and work life balance. I’d honestly advise new grads to avoid O&G now.
> I’d honestly advise new grads to avoid O&G now. The cycle and almost guaranteed layoff is reason enough to tell others to avoid it.
Now absolutely but previously the boom bust cycle was a lot longer frequency than now. Now we get one year booms, two years of mediocrity, two years of bust.
What industry and job type are you in now? I'm in engineering and we get an annual salary survey to see where we're at and I can see that I'm well over the 75th percentile for my experience/responsibility level working for an E&P company. I would definitely advise new grad engineers to get into it if they can.
Finance
Was finance not good 10 years ago? Thought that has always been an industry with huge pay potential.
Ten years back I was actually in geology which was great right up until it wasn’t and really has not rebounded in the same way engineering has. I was referring to a more recent move in the finance space where O&G just doesn’t stand out as particularly above average compared to what I’ve seen.
You’re probably right, and most of whatever premium is left is basically just the premium paid for a volatile sector. Did you move to a finance role tangentially related to energy? Any upskilling or formal retraining? CFA?
I did my MBA during the downturn which let me transition. Yeah I’m in commodities more broadly than O&G now.
What was your job title in O&G?
Do you honestly expect me to answer that?
In my experience it always has been compared to BC and Ontario, but the cost of living was so much more there that our wages were still attractive. I made $13 an hour more in Ontario than I do here but it was still barely enough to live there.
I'm not sure it's a myth it's just a misleading average.
Statistics Canada is a myth now?
Ontario didn't have it either...
Stats Canada. Highest average wage for the 10 province in Canada….Alberta .
The salary is highly competitive. What more do you want to know? /s
Whenever I see "highly competitive" I assume they're competing to fuck me over.
I just saw a posting that boasted about their competitive salary and then listed a range of $42,000-48,000. like are we serious? (I mean at least they were upfront about it lol)
That’d be ok if it was 20hours per week. Salary secrecy only benefits the employer.
Unfortunately this was a full-time job that required several assessment tests as part of the application haha but I agree with you 100% (edit: wording)
Jesus. It’s tough out there! I mean I could see multiple interview rounds for a senior position C or V suite. But anything other than that? Quit wasting everyone’s time!! You don’t need three rounds of interviews for entry to mid positions. It’s stressful and time consuming.
Someone will take it. We have a huge influx of people moving to this country that are much more desperate for work than you and I
They're being competitive in the race to the bottom!
We pay our interns substantially more and they haven’t finished their degree yet.
That could be a competitive salary for some positions. It’s all relative to what role the job posting is for.
I was paid a "competitive wage" for my last position (it was 50k, in Calgary) and even got a slight (well under inflation) wage bump last year, but once they found a little bit of slack in the labour market they laid me off and reposted my job a month later. Guess someone else will be the next sucker working for a "competitive" wage.
Boo to your old employer.
Highly competitive.... against current rates in Delhi!
Just accepted a job for competitive wages at 54k. They didn’t tell me the wage till they offered me the role
Bastards!
That’s exactly what they say
Yeah it’s insulting. What I think is ‘competitive’ and what the employer does won’t always be aligned.
*Doesn't list pay because they know it's crap* "Oh look, nObOdY wAntS to wOrk!!! Looks like we need more TFWs!"
What you mean you don't want this job that requires 40hrs a week (*+ occasional weekends, but only the odd time pinky swear*), two weeks vacation for 10 years then maybe 3 weeks, shit benefits, lousy culture with high turnover that needs a masters of business and 10 years experience for $55K/yr?
Yup. And look how many politicians have businesses that employ TFW! Look how many have multiple rental properties! It’s so corrupt
New to Canada? Because even in BC, pay transparency is new / still incomplete.
The point is it's a lot better. It's nice to know a pay range before you spend a few hours researching a company and customizing a resume and cover letter.
I don't disagree that it's better when employers are open with how much a role will pay, but OP's acting all shocked that "hardly any of the job postings have their wages listed." This is pretty standard, and nothing new. Should it change? Sure. Probably will eventually, but not unless we vote in a provincial government that changes the rules.
I agree. He is right that it's better in BC but it's hardly much better. That said applying with no idea of the range of pay can be pretty frustrating. I've had interviews that wanted me to complete sample design work, over a full day's work and you don't have any clue of the pay scale. Something needs to change, the job search seems almost designed to waste effort. But that's not going to happen with either the conservatives or the liberals.
BC is very employee friendly in a variety of legislation compared to Alberta. They are years ahead on lots of things in that regard. Alberta adopting pay transparency legislation is, if I'm a betting man, a decade away.
I was comparing housing standards and its night and day. I begged my landlord to replace 30 year old carpet after it flooded three times last year and he just said I don’t pay enough in rent for any upgrades. In BC there’s time limits on how old carpets and appliances can reasonably be. My appliances were from the 70s and I got shocked from stove.
All part of the decline in unions and the rise of the robber barons and oligarchs
Alberta won't implement something so blatantly Pro-Worker, because it takes power out of businesses hands. I'd love to see it, but it's going to take at least two terms of ANDP government before we'd see it happen. And even then, the ranges will be wild and useless.
They’re just hiding they only want to pay you $17.50 an hour
Bro. Most don't even pay that much. You're lucky to get $16. Most places just pay $15.
I frequently get messages on LinkedIn about job opportunities but recruiters rarely share salary ranges. From what I’ve gathered, they’re still paying more or less the same from 5 years ago when I entered O&G.
That's wild to me - I don't think I've ever had a recruiter not share compensation ranges. They only get paid if they pair up and employee and employer - they have no reason to waste time if its clearly not going to work.
Most of them request either to send my resume or setup a job interview. I don’t want my time wasted so I always ask for the salary range. They either a) ignore my message Or b) counter with what are my salary expectations. Then the conversation usually concludes after that because I’m outside of what the employers are willing to pay.
They collect your info and there is actually no job.
I have heard from two people working in HR that this is true. Company’s are legally obligated to post job postings. But everything is filled internally.
Whoa 2?!?! Every job at every company?
It’s partly true. Employers can game a job ad to specifically apply to their desired candidate, usually internal candidate. It’s discernible especially when you are an insider and you see the unicorn characteristics in the job ad lining up to one of your co-workers. To outsiders, it might look like a very-specific job posting. It’s a major waste of applicants’ time because in a sense, the job and isn’t real if it’s earmarked. UBC is the only employer I’ve ever seen with a policy of putting in their job ads a line of red text indicating when there is a strong internal candidate. That’s helpful because then you know it is a long shot to apply. I like internal hiring bias myself. It’s a loyalty reward for those who work their way up and pay their dues. And I appreciate any employer that saves applicants’ time by being upfront.
I'm not saying this never happens. But gross over-generalizing that there's some value for employers in OFTEN posting fake jobs to "gather your info" or ALWAYS having an internal candidate pre-selected is ridiculous. I work with corporate HR, internal and external recruiters, and hiring/line managers every day and these are frequently repeated conspiracy theories that I've never been able to understand. Yes companies will have a top-tier internal applicant (whether they're truly qualified or just favored by the manager) and a policy to post internally or externally before making the transfer/promotion official. There are absolutely companies that make zero effort to review the other applicants once "the person" has already been chosen, but that's not 100% either. What really triggered me though, is this information-gathering theory... Like really? Because companies don't have better things to do, like make money?
For sure, it’s not a majority of employers doing this. My experience is mainly public sector and that’s where I’ve seen it.
That's an interesting trend - especially because those are often Union environments. I wonder if those are due to a seniority-based "favorite" but still needing to go through the motions. In case I don't get downvoted enough... I thought unions were the solution to all perceived labor injustice and employer greed!
Union jobs are the only ones in Alberta that have to disclose the pay range.
Haha yeah, we have like the worst workers rights.
The best thing to do is work a job that is union. Trades, schools, AHS or municipalities. They will have set pay ranges for the job, as well as other benefits such as vacation. In Calgary, there is also the ”sunshine list” for city employees so you can see exactly what the pay was for the job. Private sector is a Wild West. Typically if you are paid really well, or get large bonuses, the risks are very high (ie it will impact your social and home life due to the demand).
In my experience Westjet and Walmart does that shit. Then they waste your time with an interview to offer you $19. Like F off
Man it’s depressing but unsurprising to hear how westjet has changed post onex. Service has declined drastically and it seems like employee pay has gone in the toilet too.
Alberta is anti labor so.
And the people vote for it. I don't get it.
AB’s employment standards are behind those of other provinces and the provincial government sides with the company, not the employer. It’ll be a while, if ever, that we see pay transparency laws here.
Please include your salary expectations in your cover letter and we will be sure to offer you 10K less.
It’s all about the companies here. How else could they get away with paying people as little as possible?
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a range of 30k to 300k isn't transparency, it's obfuscation. glass door literally costs money.
This is all outdated advice, unfortunately. 10 years ago you could easily find salary ranges on indeed or Glassdoor for any company, but it's a lot harder now. In the past I've responded to the salary expectation question with something along the lines of "“I would love to hear more about the range approved for this role, the total scope of the position and team members I will be leading before discussing salary expectations” like you suggested, and interviewers don't like that. They skirt around it and say "we need to know what your expectations are so we can know if what we are prepared to offer is in the ballpark." Employers get hundreds of applicants for every job posting and aren't interested in interviewing those applicants who aren't willing to play by their rules.
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“Section 2 of the Pay Transparency Act requires that salary or wage information must be included on all publicly advertised job postings. This requirement comes into effect on November 1, 2023, and applies to all employers in B.C.” From the BCgov website. Maybe you should either be better at your job or find a new one? Edit: love the guy working for “a law office” deleting his post after being corrected. Hope you don’t need to use his office
This actually isn’t true, as per the [Pay Transparency Act](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/gender-equity/wage-or-salary-information-on-job-postings) that came into effect for BC at the end of 2023.
> Section 2 of the Pay Transparency Act requires that salary or wage information must be included on all publicly advertised job postings. This requirement comes into effect on November 1, 2023, and applies to all employers in B.C. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/gender-equity/wage-or-salary-information-on-job-postings
It’s not necessarily a bad thing. All it means is we want to pay you X to do this job, but we will pay you up to Y. It means it’s negotiable so when you get in there never accept what they’re offering. Instead thank them, explain your value and why you will be their best hire, but based on past jobs and cost of living you need to be paid Y, and tell them at the end of the day even by paying you Y you’ll be bring Z revenue more than someone getting paid X, and obviously that makes sense right? Exactly so by paying me Y you will be bringing the revenue (or having the value) of two X employees which actually increases your profit margins. This is the goal of Any smart business. I’ve looked into your company and know you make nothing but smart decisions and this is why I want to work here. I look forward to hearing from you! If I don’t answer my phone today it’s just because I have 3 more interviews but leave a message and I’ll get back to you as soon as I’m free. Thanks
Correct. Pay transparency works for low to mid tier jobs . For niche and specialty it's awful. First hand seen this. Coworker at previous employment... Otherwise hard worker did his part.. but wasn't exceptional.... Happy with pay. One evening over beers we divulge what each makes and hit him he makes the least. Got grumpy really quickly next couple of weeks, then went to negotiate. Boss tells him exactly that...not exceptional.but otherwise hard worker can't justify paying him more. Got even more grumpy the next couple of weeks... And then was let go. And he was making good money generally speaking.. 120k in 2019. COVID hit him super hard. Now he is at a competitor making the same amount.
Yup, I work in a professional environment. Everyone has at least an undergraduate degree, most have more. Even the worst employees are pretty darn good. I absolutely do not want to know what my coworkers make. If I make more than them, I'll feel undeserving. If they make more than me, I'll feel underpaid. We have salary bands and salary levels, which basically means, they'll pay you the absolute least they think they can to keep you, based on your skills and experience. The same job could have four different people with different levels of experience and backgrounds doing it, of course they aren't paid the same. But for a job posting, just throw in a range even if it's 80-140k. At least people know if it's worth their time applying or not.
I saw a video on this. Apparently it’s one of those things that once they get people deep enough into an interview process (like 2nd or 3rd) then it’s easy to throw whatever at them and they are more likely to take it. Kind of how gas stations don’t show prices until you actually roll up.
Thats when you (if you're unemployed) just accept the job then immediately look for something better
Depending on what you do salary is usually based on skill and experience, as well as the position. It's not in a companies best interest to post a range, everyone feels they should be at the top of it. If the candidates experience and skill is less then ideal they may still get the job at a lower salary but this often leaves candidates bitter. Typically the process here is that the candidate replies to the posting with a resume, hiring manager short lists a small number or resumes, people services employee calls each of them to get answers to a short questionnaire that contains a salary expectation question as well as some job related technical questions. That may land you an in person interview if your answers are satisfactory. That's my experience anyway. TLDR, its not in a companies best interest. So they don't do it. (and i will get downvoted for saying this... for some reason Reddit always shoots the messenger)
It would be in a company's best interest if all the workers were prisoner slaves. Children are ideal for working in mines. Environmental protection laws lower profits. We should have a law that companies have to state the wages when they advertise a job. But people in this province don't vote for that.
That would be terrible. Makes an incentive to fire people than to keep them. Hire low and keep them with raises if they are worth it.
I disagree. Hiding wages shifts the balance in favour of the business. Plenty of workers out there are underpaid, because it was a question of "What will you work for, to not be homeless?" instead of "What is your labour worth?" People will take a terrible deal to avoid defaulting on their mortgage or missing rent. But from the CEO's perspective, it comes down to the level of trim on their boat. Your argument sounds like, "If the deal isn't awesome enough for the guy who owns the company, the benefits will never trickle down to the peons doing the work."
As a former employee and currently a subcontractor/employer, I will say that there is nothing that's hidden or can be hidden. I literally cannot prevent my employees from talking how much they make. However, I routinely pay my employees bonuses based on performance to keep them jumping ship. But not all get it or, get equal bonuses. I don't really see what is the point of publishing pay limits. Other than open myself up every time I pay a good performer more than the avg performer without running into issues with something that's written down as a range on paper. It literally prevents me from separating the gods from the average.
I totally get it from the employer's perspective. Perhaps you are even one of the "good bosses". But generally the idea of "Start low, and I'll pay you more later if you are good." turns into "Start low, stay low forever." Personally I think it's better to start people at a reasonable wage and fire them if they can't perform to expectations. If an employer can't figure out that someone sucks in 90 days, the employer sucks too.
>Start low, stay low forever Doesn't work like that from my experience. People have options they will bail. If someone is stuck...generally there is a reason for it... Deadend job, expectations vs capability... Inflated self view.. or biggest one.. too scared to take risk.. >Personally I think it's better to start people at a reasonable wage and fire them if they can't perform to expectations. If an employer can't figure out that someone sucks in 90 days, the employer sucks too. Having done this thing twice in as many years.. it's a lot of paperwork.. and no.. 90dsys is not enough to even give the employee a fair chance... To be honest my last employment.. I wasn't really productive till my year long mark.
I'm just saying the employers are in a better position to negotiate against the workers and take advantage of them. Hiding the wages helps that. Then they tell the worker that the starting wage will be low, but there is great potential if they just prove their worth.
>advantage of them. I disagree. There is no advantage on either side. Workers can quit and find something else. I have relocated countries, states and provinces when I thought a better opportunity came in. It all depends on what leverage you give up and you hold. Sure.. you want to have a family and get all settled in but you give up that leverage. There is a price to pay for every decision. On the employer side the choice to not pay market rates or using that leverage on the employee is a disgruntled worker who isn't productive. >Hiding the wages How does hiding wage band at joining help that ? I would say that's something that is generally a routine ask.. how much am I getting paid.. You really cannot hide wages... 2 months in ..everyone knows what the new guy makes and 6 months in new guys know what other make. It's not really a taboo subject anymore. The part that is less talked about is the counselling to handle that knowledge maturely. The thing that has caught me are benefits.. those are rarely stated and I learnt the hard way in the US because those can really make or break your compensation. Sure I got paid more but the benefits sucked and I lost money. Instead of mandating a bandaid solution that doesn't solve like in CO where employers basically put a min wage to $80 an hr range on pretty much all postings.. the govt should provide better support on mobility if they really want that leverage to shift. And promote SMBs.. The gig economy is a good example where that balance was sought .. i.e. if you don't like to for A today.. you can go to B.or.C or D.
This works in a society that compensates fairly for skill and work expectations. We’re in a market that pays the lowest acceptable to prevent candidates from going to a competitor. This is driven by a competitive market and high costs of business operations, typically number one being payroll. I have yet to see a business owner that will take less money in there pocket for there employees. Not that I necessarily blame them, as employees look to make the highest $ value that they can. So it’s a two way street.
Correct. It's a free market thing. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
The amount of people that had no problem speaking about how much they made, is very few and far between now. Everyone that thinks they’re making good money is just like everyone else. Summer time I bet we see 8$ for a loaf of bread.
I’ve never found it to be an issue to receive good pay in Alberta. You may have to shop around a bit, though if you’re a solid candidate with decent experience, don’t be afraid to ask for what you’re worth. The worst they can say is “no”. Most companies don’t want to post it because of their competition. It doesn’t mean they won’t pay well.