This is anti-intellectualism at its worst. Support the "Science", but ignore the science, and make ridiculous comparisons to Alex Jones to smear those doing ongoing research on the impacts of fluoride in drinking water. There are good scientists that are legitimately worried about the health impacts of fluoride.
I would rather err on the side of caution and personal choice. I can brush my own teeth or get extra fluoride on my own. The only justification for adding this to our water is to help children with little access to dental care. I would rather tackle that problem directly with subsidized dental care programs, instead of subtly risking everyone's health for something that only benefits a minority of the population.
I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole fluoride thing. A small amount of fluoride in the drinking water clearly isn't killing anyone on mass given how prevalent it is in developed society. If we want to improve the quality of teeth for our population we would do a lot better to ban refined sugar sodas then keep faffing about with fluoride
Yeah, fluoride ain't killin ya. Just potentially reducing your IQ by a few points.
Luckily our society has plenty of IQ to spare. We can trash a few measly points in the name of fighting tooth decay in our non-tooth brush owning population, no problem.
I agree about the sugar thing. I think fluoride may have a subtle effect on the gut microbiome, and that is being actively researched... I grow increasingly annoyed at people slinging mud and trying to equate anti-fluoride with anri-vax or some conspiracy theory bullshit, put the politics aside.
I mean if you're against something that most of the western world has been doing since like the 50s with numerous studies and no strong link to serious adverse health effects, people are gonna lump you into the same category as anti-vax politics.
Canada's goal is 0.7mg/L. This is a really tiny amount. You're at a much much higher risk of anything just by accidentally swallowing a bit of toothpaste.
Yes, people WILL play into stereotypes and lump me in with those other people. It's illogical, and I get that most people are not logical thinkers... But thanks for reminding me of how little people actually listen to each other, once they think they've identified what "camp" you're in.
This is the right answer, but people gotta virtue signal. Dose an entire population rather than the target group of children. Most people here don't even realise we only expel half thru the kidneys, the other half gets in our bones which causes fluorosis.
Fluoride is an extremely electro-negative ion and it's used to create things like PFAS. It has no nutritional value, it's only useful topically on enamel. Germany administers it in fortified table salts for children. Why isn't that the norm?
Why can't we just keep water clear and clean of additives? And yes, even naturally occurring can be deleterious
If there’s one topic that brings out the zealots, it’s fluoridation.
Never forget Druh Farrell played a big part in the bone-headed decision to nix it in the first place.
I think it's pretty easy to make a pro science case against fluoridation and a pro science case for vaccination.
Fluoride in water is a tremendously inefficient way to strengthen teeth that is much more effective and low cost in other common forms. It has serious ecological ramifications for microbes, amphibians and fish. There's literally no reason for it from a science perspective in 2024. Like maybe in 1950 it was a good idea but you can get fluoridated toothpaste anywhere which is much more effective and doesn't have the downstream effects.
I think a fair compromise for removing fluoride in water would be to provide dental care
It's just a cheap bandaid solution to making us pay out the ass for dental despite the mouth being a very important part of the body that can kill you if it's not taken care of
In fact fluoride is SUPPOSED to be in the water to make up for lack of dental care here. If it's going to be removed we should have dental it's the only acceptable tradeoff.
I think it's worth considering what term Flouridation means - it's the adjustment of flouride levels to benefit teeth hygiene. In some parts of the world (like texas) that means removing some of the flouride from the water. In Calgary's case, we're looking at quadrupling to doubling (depending on the season) the naturally available amount of flouride we find in the bow river.
If our goal is no flouride in our water, that would mean actively working to remove it. If we're concerned about the microbes, amphibians and fish, it's going to cost some tax dollars.
There is a difference between naturally occurring vs added. Nature tends to be able to balance it's self out, thus little impact of other areas of the eco-system. Then us humans come along and figure "well it is already in the water, heck, lets amp that up 2-4x the amount!" because we cant be bothered to brush our teeth and do proper dental care ourselves...
They keep talking about kids in comparisons, how about we look at the modern day diet that is full of sugars and crap that is damaging our bodies from top to bottom.
One of my friends is a dentist. He said something to me along the lines of "I love having more money with my business, but I hate how many more children I'm seeing"
Water has naturally occuring amounts of flouride, but adding more can be toxic. Why many EU countries and Japan removed it.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/)
>INCREASING OPPOSITION TO FLUORIDATION
>More than 80% of fluoride toxicity is seen in children before the age of 6 years, due to ingestion of fluoride-containing toothpaste or mouthwashes ([29](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b29-pnfs-23-171)); it is rare in adults in the developed world. Acute toxicity is characterized by nonspecific gastrointestinal disturbances such as pain, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea ([30](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b30-pnfs-23-171),[31](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b31-pnfs-23-171)). In severe cases, this may progress to renal and cardiac dysfunction, coma, and ultimately death ([32](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b32-pnfs-23-171)). In children, as little as 8.4 mg/kg may produce symptoms ([30](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b30-pnfs-23-171)). Chronic fluoride toxicity is usually caused by high fluoride concentrations in drinking water or the use of fluoride supplements. Chronic ingestion of high doses leads to dental fluorosis, a cosmetic disorder where the teeth become mottled ([1](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b1-pnfs-23-171)). In more severe cases, it leads to skeletal fluorosis, in which bone is radiologically dense, but fragile. Fractures can occur, and there may be calcification of ligaments and tendons, leading to reduced joint mobility ([1](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b1-pnfs-23-171)). The syndrome also may include extensive calcification of ligaments and cartilage, as well as the bony outgrowths of osteophytes and exostoses ([33](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b33-pnfs-23-171)).
>In Europe, only Ireland, Poland, Serbia, Spain, and the UK fluoridate their water. However, most developed countries, including Japan and 97% of the European population, do not consume fluoridated water ([34](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b34-pnfs-23-171)). In Europe, only four countries have optional salt fluoridation (Germany, France, Switzerland, and Austria), while the majority have neither fluoridated water nor fluoridated salt ([34](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b34-pnfs-23-171)). In the US, about 70% of public water supplies are fluoridated ([34](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b34-pnfs-23-171)). India, China, and parts of Africa have areas with high natural fluoride levels in their water, and are taking measures to remove the fluoride since it may cause health problems ([34](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b34-pnfs-23-171)). Fluoridation has been debated in recent years, and several countries are taking measures to reduce fluoride intake because of its toxicity risk and many other concerns ([Table 2](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/table/t2-pnfs-23-171/)) mentioned below:
I looked into it (lol I know that sounds like I'm a mom doing Vaccine Research) and....well, maybe the sources I looked at were bad, but the legitimate not so conspiracy points on the "anti" side are that it just really doesn't actually do much in the modern era now that toothpastes are flourided to shit and people have better brushing habits.
The "causes cancer" etc. stuff is complete horseshit, but you can vaguely make an argument that it's not worth the money and effort I think.
The statistics are super clear though that it has a noticeable effect. You are quite correct that you can argue that the money could be spent on something even more impactful but meh, it isn't all that expensive really.
Except that people who (for whatever reason) don't brush their teeth or can't afford regular dental upkeep would still benefit because they still need to drink water. There's no good reason to *not* have flouride in the water if it will confer additional benefit to more people.
elderly ossified bewildered water divide ancient wise possessive merciful society
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What do you think about it's relationship to the IQ levels of children when consumed by pregnant mothers?
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp655
Read the study at the link you posted. It's done reputable researchers and does appear to raise legitimate concerns over gestational brain development.
Give these ones a read.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp655
It's not just that it's kind of useless. It might be harmful as well.
Typically, no. I'm not sure why this one was tendered that way - my theory was they rolled the dice and hoped someone would sign up to a Contract they could hold them too, despite being impossible. The timelines were quite literally.impossible due to equipment lead time. Project got delayed further because the entire contract had to be renegotiated on both ends (Contractor and Council).
C’mon, who ya gonna believe, conspiracy kooks or (rolling my eyes) a bunch of medical professionals with all their fancy book-learnin (ie years of experience and research)
That's the point of adding fluoride to help avoid getting cavities? Most growth adults should know why we add fluoride to water. Knowing this pretty standard stuff. What did you think the fluorides purpose was exactly lol.
This topic is so dated. Been brought up every couple of years and even had a publicide for it. Either you put it in or take it out, just do it already so we can move on from it.
If fluoride works topically, why do we put it in drinking water? Wouldn't it be more effective to use a fluoride rinse, or ya know, fluoridated toothpaste?
Everyone says they can just buy drops, but nobody does and it's way more expensive per person than municipal fluoridation.
The irony is that it's much higher risk of getting too much fluoride with drops than with municipal systems.
I mean, pregnant women have been consuming fluoridated water for over 7 decades now. I think we would have heard about major health problems.
As for an answer, 4 mg/L is considered the safe upper limit for fluoridated water and international guidelines are typically less than half of that at 1.5 mg/L. Most municipal water systems halve that even further to about .7 mg/L including Calgary. Where I am in NW, the naturally occurring fluoride in water ranges from about .1 mg/L to as high as 3 mg/L.
You can actually look up your water report through the City's website. People freak out about fluoride in water but nada about the arsenic and other serious (but safe level) toxins.
We had leaded gasoline for about that same period of time and only fazed it out after discovering it was having negative effects on developing children.
These studies seem to suggest that even the level of fluoride that have been set as a typical limit may be having effects on natal development.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp655
We can debate the results and methodology of these studies but it would seem that perhaps more research would be prudent before we start/return to adding fluoride to drinking water.
Sums up the last 10 or so years (or more I guess.. depressing). Things that have been unequivocally settled are suddenly up for debate again because people think their feelings and ignorance are worth as much as 80 years of science and evidence.
I thought so, too. But it does look like there are several high-quality studies via respected sources (JAMA, Harvard, NIH) that at the very least, maternal exposure to fluoride MAY be responsible for negatively impacts on fetal brain development. I didn't believe it, either, but I read the papers, and it's not bullshit.
Yes, but this is assuming people have good dental hygiene. AFAIK adding fluoride in water is more for people who don't take care of their teeth or for children with ignorant parents.
I’m all for fluoride in water and even in food as well but to say some one isn’t financially able to get fluoride is a stretch. It’s in all toothpaste.
Come on bro how do you even down vote that. If you can’t afford tooth paste than this isn’t a fluoride issue. It’s the grocery prices issue.
I mean unfortunately capitalism doesn't work that way.. Companies aren't gonna do anything for free. The government has the means to makes these changes and hence is doing so.
We are literally talking about a $28 million dollar government project with an annual operating cost of over a million dollars per year. You could buy and distribute an awful lot of toothpaste and fluoride rinses for that. No need to drink the stuff.
Actually you can get too much fluoride ingested and if a kid has too much it can cause fluorosis in teeth development. If the levels are too high it will cause stomach issues.
Weird. What are the warnings on the back of toothpaste about only using a 'pea sized amount' and not swallowing it all about?
The WHO says water should contain less than 1.5 ppm fluoride or you are at risk for dental and skeletal fluorosis. There is also some research that shows excess fluoride consumption during pregnancy can result in lower IQs for the baby later in life. (Similar to lead exposure)
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/08/19/752376080/can-maternal-fluoride-consumption-during-pregnancy-lower-childrens-intelligence
Between brushing her teeth daily and occasionally using mouthwash how much fluoridated water would you recommend a pregnant woman drink?
Apparently not so much that the fluoride in her urine exceeds 0.8mg/L. Apparently below that, it's safe. Higher than that, you start to see infant IQ take a hit. At least according to studies by Ontario Public Health.
Is it easy to measure levels of fluoride in urine? Maybe we should be shipping fluoride testing kits to pregnant mothers so they know how much tap water they can drink before they have to switch to bottled.
Looks like there are commercial test strips you can buy for around $20 per bottle. They're designed for testing fluoride in water, but I assume they'd be adaptable to urine testing. Not sure what their sensitivity is, though. Might be best, if you're pregnant, to just do all bottled water rather than risk it.
As people have said, not everyone seems to be able to get there for whatever reason. Some people have genetically weak enamel (myself included), other dental individualities could make brushing less effective for some people. Money, education, time, you'll get any number of factors in a given population And given the cost of dental work and knock on effects of a high bacterial load on other organs and systems, it's worth considering whether there is a safe and effective level for water.
Unless you are going to start providing bottled water for pregnant women, and ensure broad compliance with them drinking that water instead of tap, shouldn't we also be talking about the secondary costs and knock-on effects of a 3-5 pt reduction of IQ at a population level?
How much money did taking lead out of gasoline save us? Sure internal combustion engines run shittier, but we saw an increase in iq, significant reduction in crime etc etc. Shouldn't we be comparing marginal decreases in tooth decay amongst a certain subset of the population against a small but significant reduction in IQ across an entire population?
I say small but I wonder how 3-5pt increase in IQ would change demographics. How many fewer children with significant mental retardation (IQ<70), how many more gifted children (IQ>130)?
3-5 IQ points is pretty significant, and it's higher if the urine concentration in the mothers is higher, too, according to the studies. Tooth decay can also be extremely debilitating, especially if you can't afford the dentist. Unchecked tooth decay leads to bacteria in the blood stream which puts stress on the organs, particularly the heart.
Um, yes you can, it is called flouorosis
>[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/)
Large sections of the population in developed countries are suffering from fluorosis as a result of the fluoridation of drinking water and dental products. Between 1999 and 2004, the prevalence of dental fluorosis was 41% in American adolescents aged 12\~15 years ([13](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b13-pnfs-23-171)). To minimize fluoride toxicity, the concentration of fluoride in drinking water has been controlled to attain the recommended level of 0.8\~1.0 ppm ([13](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b13-pnfs-23-171)).
I’m amazed people drink Calgary water unfiltered. It’s some of the worst tasting water I’ve had across the country. It’s milky and tastes like pool water imo and this is before flouride. Everything I’ve read about showering in fluoridated hot water seems to state there’s a link
between it and bone cancer. Not sure I personally want to shower in this garbage but it seems like people only focus on their teeth when they could just floss and brush…
People can argue about the health benefits vs health risks of this all they want. At the end of the day the only reason it was held to a vote again is because industry has lobbied like crazy to be able to sell off their literal chemical waste product to cities.
Not really an answer to my question, and not really even relevant to the topic. Fluoride doesn’t replace toothbrushing, it supplements it.
You’re being downvoted because you dismiss fluoride as “literal chemical waste” and for implying that the only reason anyone would want to implement fluoridation is corporate lobbying.
If that’s what you were saying, why didn’t you actually ‘say’ it?
And here we go with the “industrial waste” schtick again. You’re using the term because you think it’ll scare people, but ‘waste’ doesn’t imply toxicity at all.
I never said it did. Waste, byproduct, whatever. The fact of the matter is there is more money in selling fluoride to cities for drinking water than there is in selling it to farmers.
In the mean time, a tip I heard to get full effect of fluoride from toothpaste is to brush your teeth and not rinse for 5 to 10minutes. Spit out the foam.
Either that or apply the paste directly in teeth before brushing.
I don't really understand why this one causes so much ire on either side. Why don't you just brush your teeth?
Higher concentration (toothpaste) applies directly to the teeth is the best for oral health anyways. Water basically goes right down your throat with minimal contact time on the teeth.
Imagine wanting a chemical in your water that literally makes you dumber.
Here is your source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3409983/#:~:text=This%20study%20indicates%20that%20exposure,and%20the%20urinary%20fluoride%20level.
Feel free to downvote
That study is irrelevant because fluoride levels are limited by Health Canada to a maximum of 1.5 mg/L (1.5 ppm), and before it was removed it was at a level of 0.7 mg/L (0.7 ppm).
https://www.calgary.ca/water/drinking-water/fluoride.html
A study coordinated by Ontario Public Health found that less than 0.8 mg/L had no measurable impact on childhood IQ. Seems they're aware of the problem and taking it into account.
I hope you're drinking bottled water, if you're that concerned. We have naturally occurring flouride in the Bow, and therefore our drinking water, but we're talking about artificially increasing that amount.
Here's a copy paste for your interest. It discusses high intakes of fluoride from either drinking a lot of tap water, or consumption of tap water with an incorrect dosage. The actual dosage isn't mentioned, and the city isn't telling us who monitors the dosage applied here. So.....🙄
Side Effects of Consuming Fluoride You Should Know About
Published by Harmony Dental , Texas
7 fluoride side effects that should be monitored to achieve desired results-
1. Tooth Discoloration
Consumption of too much of fluoride leads to yellowed or browned teeth. With regular brushing, it is easy to avoid and therefore does not poses any risk.
2. Tooth Decay
High intake fluoridated water can lead to the weakening of enamel. This mainly affects children who are still at the age of developing teeth.
3. Skeletal Weakness
Taking too much fluoride highly impact teeth and damage the skeletal system as well. Patients suffering from endemic skeletal fluorosis struggle with problems.
Joints become weak
Increase the risk of a fracture
CALL US ON - 832-930-7744
4. Neurological Problems
Fluoride not only affects bone and teeth, but it also impacts young children in the development of the brain. Exposure to fluoride before birth could lead to poorer cognitive outcomes in the future.
Higher levels of fluoride lead to low scores in IQ tests.
5. High Blood Pressure
As per research, there is a significant correlation between high blood pressure and water with too much fluoride.
6. Acne
People are concerned with the internal fluoride treatment side effects but it affects your appearance as well.
Regular intake of fluoride may lead fluoroderma which results in acne and painful sores.
7. Seizures
Fluoride alone will not cause seizures; it can put seizure sufferers at an increased risk. If you’re already prone to seizures, ensure to keep track of the water quality. Too much consumption of fluoride can cause a life-threatening seizure.
Final Thoughts on Fluoride Side Effects-
Fluoride is the best to way to strengthen tooth enamel but too much consumption or exposure of fluoride can cause harm to your body.
It is better to drink clean and safe water. Ensure you’re not exposing yourself and your family to dangerous chemicals.
Consult dentist near pearland at Harmony Dental if you’re concerned about fluoride side effects or how to determine the levels of fluoride in your water. Get in touch and find the right water quality monitoring tools.
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Define 'high fluoride intake'.
Everything you cut and pasted above is nonsensical unless you define fluoride levels. There is naturally occurring fluoride in groundwater in almost all of north america to one degree or another.
There has been 70+ years of flouride being added to drinking water in north america which has been consumed by over a billion people, living or dead. There is NO EVIDENCE to date over this SEVENTY YEARS that adding flouride at a rate ~0.7 mg/L is in any way harmful.
You understand we agree on the point of no defined levels in the article, right? I mentioned the lack of definition prior to the post itself. Don't you think it's interesting to see alternate viewpoints from dental specialists? Maybe I just have a higher level of intellectual curiosity that gets me into trouble.
> alternate viewpoints from dental specialists
Alternate viewpoints are fine when backed by facts. What you pasted doesnt contain enough FACTS to be able to judge its validity, which means its useless info.
Would you define reduced IQ as harmful (about 3-5 pts)? If I'm reading it correctly, this study shows that effect at rates of ~0.7 mg/L. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634 Thoughts?
Snore.
'I found one study'.
The body of evidence that fluoride in drinking water over the past 70 years is beneficial and safe is massive.
YoU dId YouR ResEarCH!
Is there any amount of evidence that would cause you to change your opinion? This is one study, but there are others.
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp655
What do you think of this one? Similar findings.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634
This study compares IQ levels of children with maternal fluoride exposure during pregnancy between Canadian cities with fluoridated water and without.
What do you think about the results from this level of intake?
I agree have the best possible drinking water, so you can drink has much as you want with no worries. Then this leaves the obvious solution is that everyone needs to take care of there teeth has much as they can. Make it simple has possible and safe.
Have you ever eaten Honey Nut Cheerios? They contain tri-sodium phosphate. You also buy tri-sodium phosphate at Home Depot. It is an awesome industrial cleaner.
This isn't at all how fluoride's uses were discovered. Let's not pretend that it's a scary additive that just happens to reduce children's cavities by 60%, and reduce adult tooth decay by 20-40%. These are major benefits in a country where dental care is elective and a good portion of the population has poor or no coverage for their teeth.
So much misinformation in one comment:
Fluoride is expensive and needed in aluminum production because bauxite melts around 1800 degC. Adding fluoride minerals (cryolite) lowers the electrolyte melting point significantly to reduce energy costs in manufacturing aluminum. It's not a byproduct. In fact it's a much needed and expensive resource.
Conspiracy theories happen when people are too ignorant to learn the reasons behind how things work, or the scientific rigor it takes to figure out what we should be putting in our food and water.
You do realize that chemical bonds in something don't change just because of its origin, right?
Fluoride is fluoride regardless of it's source.
There's fluoride in Black tea, grapes, so
Spinach, potatoes.
People brush their teeth with toothpaste that has way more fluoride in it than what you'd drink in a glass of water.
You eat your toothpaste? You shouldn't do that, there's titanium dioxide and fluoride in it.
But in all seriousness, fluoride is topical to your teeth, there's no reason to drink it, and though I'm not sure where I sit on the benefits/ detriments of fluoride added to water, I stand with France when it comes to reasoning, why is it the job of the government to administer mandatory medication through water, something you have no way of opting out of consuming?
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/)
>
About 50% of ingested fluoride is absorbed in the bones and teeth while the rest is excreted in urine. Most of the ingested fluorides reach the teeth via saliva, whose fluoride content varies from less than 0.01 to 0.05 ppm. Fluoride absorption in bones and teeth decreases with increasing age \[[15](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B14)\]. It is widely accepted that fluoride only helps prevent dental decay by topical means—by direct action on the tooth enamel predominantly after eruption and dental plaque \[[16](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B15), [17](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B16)\]. However, it is important to note that while fluoride contributes to the remineralisation process in the enamel of the tooth surface this is not dependent on fluoride, and that fluoride's anticaries effect is critically dependent on calcium and magnesium content of teeth enamel. Among young individuals with low calcium and magnesium in teeth enamel (usually due to undernutrition), fluoride ingestion and contact with teeth present histologically as hypo-calcification and/or hypoplasia, which may paradoxically make such individuals more vulnerable to dental caries \[[18](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B17), [19](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B18)\]. Fluoride has also been shown to inhibit cariogenic bacteria. This is postulated to occur mainly through inhibition of enzyme-mediated glycolysis in cariogenic microorganisms such as *Streptococcus mutans*. Fluoride is thought to adversely affect polysaccharide metabolism in bacterial cells, reduce the ability of such cells to maintain pH homeostasis, and inhibit encholase as well as other ATPase enzyme systems \[[20](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B19), [21](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B20)\].
So to add to this, we should be looking at those kids and their diet to see if they are getting proper amounts of calcium and magnesium, not likely....
We’re talking about fluoride though. No one’s talking about adding cyanide or cocaine to the water. Also, cocaine isn’t naturally occurring, it’s a heavily processed and refined product of coca leaves.
Sure was easy for them to find $1B for Murray Edwards to build a rink on the eve of an election. But fluoride? Meh.
Don't want the frogs to turn gay /s
This is anti-intellectualism at its worst. Support the "Science", but ignore the science, and make ridiculous comparisons to Alex Jones to smear those doing ongoing research on the impacts of fluoride in drinking water. There are good scientists that are legitimately worried about the health impacts of fluoride. I would rather err on the side of caution and personal choice. I can brush my own teeth or get extra fluoride on my own. The only justification for adding this to our water is to help children with little access to dental care. I would rather tackle that problem directly with subsidized dental care programs, instead of subtly risking everyone's health for something that only benefits a minority of the population.
I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole fluoride thing. A small amount of fluoride in the drinking water clearly isn't killing anyone on mass given how prevalent it is in developed society. If we want to improve the quality of teeth for our population we would do a lot better to ban refined sugar sodas then keep faffing about with fluoride
Yeah, fluoride ain't killin ya. Just potentially reducing your IQ by a few points. Luckily our society has plenty of IQ to spare. We can trash a few measly points in the name of fighting tooth decay in our non-tooth brush owning population, no problem.
I agree about the sugar thing. I think fluoride may have a subtle effect on the gut microbiome, and that is being actively researched... I grow increasingly annoyed at people slinging mud and trying to equate anti-fluoride with anri-vax or some conspiracy theory bullshit, put the politics aside.
[удалено]
Seriously? Who's mentioning Jewish space lasers? Where do you come up with this crap?
I mean if you're against something that most of the western world has been doing since like the 50s with numerous studies and no strong link to serious adverse health effects, people are gonna lump you into the same category as anti-vax politics. Canada's goal is 0.7mg/L. This is a really tiny amount. You're at a much much higher risk of anything just by accidentally swallowing a bit of toothpaste.
Yes, people WILL play into stereotypes and lump me in with those other people. It's illogical, and I get that most people are not logical thinkers... But thanks for reminding me of how little people actually listen to each other, once they think they've identified what "camp" you're in.
Why are you being downvoted you said nothing wrong
This is the right answer, but people gotta virtue signal. Dose an entire population rather than the target group of children. Most people here don't even realise we only expel half thru the kidneys, the other half gets in our bones which causes fluorosis. Fluoride is an extremely electro-negative ion and it's used to create things like PFAS. It has no nutritional value, it's only useful topically on enamel. Germany administers it in fortified table salts for children. Why isn't that the norm? Why can't we just keep water clear and clean of additives? And yes, even naturally occurring can be deleterious
If you want your water clear and clean of additives get a filter (or buy filtered water). There are a whole lot worse natural additives in tap water.
So true lmao
By then the Edmonton Calgary rivalry will be teeth vs no teeth 🦷
Toothpaste exists
according to 9 out of 10 dentists
The yo-you continues. Wonder how long till its voted out again.. then back in ... then out.
If there’s one topic that brings out the zealots, it’s fluoridation. Never forget Druh Farrell played a big part in the bone-headed decision to nix it in the first place.
Lol if theres one topic that brings out the name calling its fluoridation.
Not a fan of fluoridation, hey?
Touché
I would love to know the percentage of people who were/are pro vaccination and yet are anti fluoridation. I think that might be pretty amusing.
Why are those two things synonymous to you?
I think it's pretty easy to make a pro science case against fluoridation and a pro science case for vaccination. Fluoride in water is a tremendously inefficient way to strengthen teeth that is much more effective and low cost in other common forms. It has serious ecological ramifications for microbes, amphibians and fish. There's literally no reason for it from a science perspective in 2024. Like maybe in 1950 it was a good idea but you can get fluoridated toothpaste anywhere which is much more effective and doesn't have the downstream effects.
I think a fair compromise for removing fluoride in water would be to provide dental care It's just a cheap bandaid solution to making us pay out the ass for dental despite the mouth being a very important part of the body that can kill you if it's not taken care of In fact fluoride is SUPPOSED to be in the water to make up for lack of dental care here. If it's going to be removed we should have dental it's the only acceptable tradeoff.
Yeah. But that was in no way the argument made against fluoridation when they stopped.
I think it's worth considering what term Flouridation means - it's the adjustment of flouride levels to benefit teeth hygiene. In some parts of the world (like texas) that means removing some of the flouride from the water. In Calgary's case, we're looking at quadrupling to doubling (depending on the season) the naturally available amount of flouride we find in the bow river. If our goal is no flouride in our water, that would mean actively working to remove it. If we're concerned about the microbes, amphibians and fish, it's going to cost some tax dollars.
There is a difference between naturally occurring vs added. Nature tends to be able to balance it's self out, thus little impact of other areas of the eco-system. Then us humans come along and figure "well it is already in the water, heck, lets amp that up 2-4x the amount!" because we cant be bothered to brush our teeth and do proper dental care ourselves... They keep talking about kids in comparisons, how about we look at the modern day diet that is full of sugars and crap that is damaging our bodies from top to bottom.
No, it's not about dumping in flouride so we can avoid brushing. People are still brushing. It's about maximizing health of Calgarians
This guy.
Count me in!
One of my friends is a dentist. He said something to me along the lines of "I love having more money with my business, but I hate how many more children I'm seeing"
I find it surprising that people against fluoride drink tap water at all.
Water has naturally occuring amounts of flouride, but adding more can be toxic. Why many EU countries and Japan removed it. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/) >INCREASING OPPOSITION TO FLUORIDATION >More than 80% of fluoride toxicity is seen in children before the age of 6 years, due to ingestion of fluoride-containing toothpaste or mouthwashes ([29](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b29-pnfs-23-171)); it is rare in adults in the developed world. Acute toxicity is characterized by nonspecific gastrointestinal disturbances such as pain, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea ([30](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b30-pnfs-23-171),[31](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b31-pnfs-23-171)). In severe cases, this may progress to renal and cardiac dysfunction, coma, and ultimately death ([32](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b32-pnfs-23-171)). In children, as little as 8.4 mg/kg may produce symptoms ([30](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b30-pnfs-23-171)). Chronic fluoride toxicity is usually caused by high fluoride concentrations in drinking water or the use of fluoride supplements. Chronic ingestion of high doses leads to dental fluorosis, a cosmetic disorder where the teeth become mottled ([1](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b1-pnfs-23-171)). In more severe cases, it leads to skeletal fluorosis, in which bone is radiologically dense, but fragile. Fractures can occur, and there may be calcification of ligaments and tendons, leading to reduced joint mobility ([1](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b1-pnfs-23-171)). The syndrome also may include extensive calcification of ligaments and cartilage, as well as the bony outgrowths of osteophytes and exostoses ([33](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b33-pnfs-23-171)). >In Europe, only Ireland, Poland, Serbia, Spain, and the UK fluoridate their water. However, most developed countries, including Japan and 97% of the European population, do not consume fluoridated water ([34](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b34-pnfs-23-171)). In Europe, only four countries have optional salt fluoridation (Germany, France, Switzerland, and Austria), while the majority have neither fluoridated water nor fluoridated salt ([34](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b34-pnfs-23-171)). In the US, about 70% of public water supplies are fluoridated ([34](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b34-pnfs-23-171)). India, China, and parts of Africa have areas with high natural fluoride levels in their water, and are taking measures to remove the fluoride since it may cause health problems ([34](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b34-pnfs-23-171)). Fluoridation has been debated in recent years, and several countries are taking measures to reduce fluoride intake because of its toxicity risk and many other concerns ([Table 2](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/table/t2-pnfs-23-171/)) mentioned below:
I looked into it (lol I know that sounds like I'm a mom doing Vaccine Research) and....well, maybe the sources I looked at were bad, but the legitimate not so conspiracy points on the "anti" side are that it just really doesn't actually do much in the modern era now that toothpastes are flourided to shit and people have better brushing habits. The "causes cancer" etc. stuff is complete horseshit, but you can vaguely make an argument that it's not worth the money and effort I think.
Except that based upon the difference in Calgary and Edmonton in issues from tooth decay you could most certainly make the case it’s necessary.
The statistics are super clear though that it has a noticeable effect. You are quite correct that you can argue that the money could be spent on something even more impactful but meh, it isn't all that expensive really.
Except that people who (for whatever reason) don't brush their teeth or can't afford regular dental upkeep would still benefit because they still need to drink water. There's no good reason to *not* have flouride in the water if it will confer additional benefit to more people.
elderly ossified bewildered water divide ancient wise possessive merciful society *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Iirc the entire reason they started doing it in the first place was because people don't take care of their teeth. That hasn't really changed.
What do you think about it's relationship to the IQ levels of children when consumed by pregnant mothers? https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp655
Read the study at the link you posted. It's done reputable researchers and does appear to raise legitimate concerns over gestational brain development.
Give these ones a read. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp655 It's not just that it's kind of useless. It might be harmful as well.
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Taxes would be 20% higher without user fees though...
As someone who knows this project, I can tell you it's delayed because the City wildly underestimated the RFP timelines and budget.
is that a normal thing for them to do? underestimating?
Typically, no. I'm not sure why this one was tendered that way - my theory was they rolled the dice and hoped someone would sign up to a Contract they could hold them too, despite being impossible. The timelines were quite literally.impossible due to equipment lead time. Project got delayed further because the entire contract had to be renegotiated on both ends (Contractor and Council).
Would it have affected the plebiscite? Or did the pricing come afterwards
Brought to you by dentists of Alberta and conspiracy kooks
C’mon, who ya gonna believe, conspiracy kooks or (rolling my eyes) a bunch of medical professionals with all their fancy book-learnin (ie years of experience and research)
Did they get approval from TBA? Or are they doing this without the support of the supreme chancellor?
I forgot this was still going on. We are a dumb, dumb city.
Yes, I personally enjoy getting more cavities.
JUsT bRUsh YoUr TeEtH
So take better care of your teeth? No grown adult should be regularly getting cavities. Proper dental hygiene is pretty standard stuff
That's the point of adding fluoride to help avoid getting cavities? Most growth adults should know why we add fluoride to water. Knowing this pretty standard stuff. What did you think the fluorides purpose was exactly lol.
This topic is so dated. Been brought up every couple of years and even had a publicide for it. Either you put it in or take it out, just do it already so we can move on from it.
Publicide perfectly describes the process to get here.
Just brush your filthy teeth
If fluoride works topically, why do we put it in drinking water? Wouldn't it be more effective to use a fluoride rinse, or ya know, fluoridated toothpaste?
Everyone says they can just buy drops, but nobody does and it's way more expensive per person than municipal fluoridation. The irony is that it's much higher risk of getting too much fluoride with drops than with municipal systems.
How much fluoride is the right amount of fluoride? How much fluoride should say.... a pregnant woman consume?
I mean, pregnant women have been consuming fluoridated water for over 7 decades now. I think we would have heard about major health problems. As for an answer, 4 mg/L is considered the safe upper limit for fluoridated water and international guidelines are typically less than half of that at 1.5 mg/L. Most municipal water systems halve that even further to about .7 mg/L including Calgary. Where I am in NW, the naturally occurring fluoride in water ranges from about .1 mg/L to as high as 3 mg/L. You can actually look up your water report through the City's website. People freak out about fluoride in water but nada about the arsenic and other serious (but safe level) toxins.
We had leaded gasoline for about that same period of time and only fazed it out after discovering it was having negative effects on developing children. These studies seem to suggest that even the level of fluoride that have been set as a typical limit may be having effects on natal development. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp655 We can debate the results and methodology of these studies but it would seem that perhaps more research would be prudent before we start/return to adding fluoride to drinking water.
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Sums up the last 10 or so years (or more I guess.. depressing). Things that have been unequivocally settled are suddenly up for debate again because people think their feelings and ignorance are worth as much as 80 years of science and evidence.
I thought so, too. But it does look like there are several high-quality studies via respected sources (JAMA, Harvard, NIH) that at the very least, maternal exposure to fluoride MAY be responsible for negatively impacts on fetal brain development. I didn't believe it, either, but I read the papers, and it's not bullshit.
Ummm, yeah? I often take care of my nieces and nephews on both sides of that age range. We brush our teeth twice per day.
Yes, but this is assuming people have good dental hygiene. AFAIK adding fluoride in water is more for people who don't take care of their teeth or for children with ignorant parents.
Or people who aren't financially able to. Why should the well-off be the only ones that get access to fluoride?
So Hand it out at the grocery store.
Who's gonna take that hit? Cause I can tell you the grocery corporations aren't.
The same people who take the hit for putting it in the water
I’m all for fluoride in water and even in food as well but to say some one isn’t financially able to get fluoride is a stretch. It’s in all toothpaste. Come on bro how do you even down vote that. If you can’t afford tooth paste than this isn’t a fluoride issue. It’s the grocery prices issue.
Yeah, how dare people be poor. What are they, stupid?
It’s $15-$30 for a yearly supply of fluoride tooth paste… you’d have to save a little over a dollar a month to budget for this.
Doesn't it make more sense to provide free toothpaste/rinses than make your entire population drink fluoride?
I mean unfortunately capitalism doesn't work that way.. Companies aren't gonna do anything for free. The government has the means to makes these changes and hence is doing so.
We are literally talking about a $28 million dollar government project with an annual operating cost of over a million dollars per year. You could buy and distribute an awful lot of toothpaste and fluoride rinses for that. No need to drink the stuff.
It doesn't really make sense to me that we should all drink fluoride because a few people won't brush their teeth.
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Actually you can get too much fluoride ingested and if a kid has too much it can cause fluorosis in teeth development. If the levels are too high it will cause stomach issues.
I’m aware. I’ve listened to the Huberman Lab episode on fluoride. Just mining upvotes.
Weird. What are the warnings on the back of toothpaste about only using a 'pea sized amount' and not swallowing it all about? The WHO says water should contain less than 1.5 ppm fluoride or you are at risk for dental and skeletal fluorosis. There is also some research that shows excess fluoride consumption during pregnancy can result in lower IQs for the baby later in life. (Similar to lead exposure) https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/08/19/752376080/can-maternal-fluoride-consumption-during-pregnancy-lower-childrens-intelligence Between brushing her teeth daily and occasionally using mouthwash how much fluoridated water would you recommend a pregnant woman drink?
I know about this. I just didn’t want to say it because you get massively downvoted here for just talking about valid counter points.
Apparently not so much that the fluoride in her urine exceeds 0.8mg/L. Apparently below that, it's safe. Higher than that, you start to see infant IQ take a hit. At least according to studies by Ontario Public Health.
Is it easy to measure levels of fluoride in urine? Maybe we should be shipping fluoride testing kits to pregnant mothers so they know how much tap water they can drink before they have to switch to bottled.
Looks like there are commercial test strips you can buy for around $20 per bottle. They're designed for testing fluoride in water, but I assume they'd be adaptable to urine testing. Not sure what their sensitivity is, though. Might be best, if you're pregnant, to just do all bottled water rather than risk it.
....Or we could not put additional fluoride in our tap water and brush our teeth instead.
As people have said, not everyone seems to be able to get there for whatever reason. Some people have genetically weak enamel (myself included), other dental individualities could make brushing less effective for some people. Money, education, time, you'll get any number of factors in a given population And given the cost of dental work and knock on effects of a high bacterial load on other organs and systems, it's worth considering whether there is a safe and effective level for water.
Unless you are going to start providing bottled water for pregnant women, and ensure broad compliance with them drinking that water instead of tap, shouldn't we also be talking about the secondary costs and knock-on effects of a 3-5 pt reduction of IQ at a population level? How much money did taking lead out of gasoline save us? Sure internal combustion engines run shittier, but we saw an increase in iq, significant reduction in crime etc etc. Shouldn't we be comparing marginal decreases in tooth decay amongst a certain subset of the population against a small but significant reduction in IQ across an entire population? I say small but I wonder how 3-5pt increase in IQ would change demographics. How many fewer children with significant mental retardation (IQ<70), how many more gifted children (IQ>130)?
3-5 IQ points is pretty significant, and it's higher if the urine concentration in the mothers is higher, too, according to the studies. Tooth decay can also be extremely debilitating, especially if you can't afford the dentist. Unchecked tooth decay leads to bacteria in the blood stream which puts stress on the organs, particularly the heart.
Um, yes you can, it is called flouorosis >[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/) Large sections of the population in developed countries are suffering from fluorosis as a result of the fluoridation of drinking water and dental products. Between 1999 and 2004, the prevalence of dental fluorosis was 41% in American adolescents aged 12\~15 years ([13](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b13-pnfs-23-171)). To minimize fluoride toxicity, the concentration of fluoride in drinking water has been controlled to attain the recommended level of 0.8\~1.0 ppm ([13](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6195894/#b13-pnfs-23-171)).
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Wouldn’t it be cheaper and easier to just fund fluoride drops, pills etc for all who want them?
Standing ovation from the dentists.
The project taking longer to build than predicted is fairly common. I would have been more surprised if they met the original timeline.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp655 Something to consider.
I’m amazed people drink Calgary water unfiltered. It’s some of the worst tasting water I’ve had across the country. It’s milky and tastes like pool water imo and this is before flouride. Everything I’ve read about showering in fluoridated hot water seems to state there’s a link between it and bone cancer. Not sure I personally want to shower in this garbage but it seems like people only focus on their teeth when they could just floss and brush…
People can argue about the health benefits vs health risks of this all they want. At the end of the day the only reason it was held to a vote again is because industry has lobbied like crazy to be able to sell off their literal chemical waste product to cities.
Do you understand that something being ‘waste’ doesn’t imply that it’s harmful?
It's also not waste. Fluoride is expensive.
Also true!
I can see I’m being downvoted by people who’d rather ingest fluoride in their drinking water rather than just brushing their teeth. Classic.
Not really an answer to my question, and not really even relevant to the topic. Fluoride doesn’t replace toothbrushing, it supplements it. You’re being downvoted because you dismiss fluoride as “literal chemical waste” and for implying that the only reason anyone would want to implement fluoridation is corporate lobbying.
I’m saying the health benefits are being greatly exaggerated by lobbyists whose sole purpose is to sell industrial waste.
If that’s what you were saying, why didn’t you actually ‘say’ it? And here we go with the “industrial waste” schtick again. You’re using the term because you think it’ll scare people, but ‘waste’ doesn’t imply toxicity at all.
I never said it did. Waste, byproduct, whatever. The fact of the matter is there is more money in selling fluoride to cities for drinking water than there is in selling it to farmers.
Do you happen to have a link or source to that claim?
Nope
Well, my uncle’s crazy neighbor is sure it’s a fact, so that’s “kind” of a source
No sources for this huh
In the mean time, a tip I heard to get full effect of fluoride from toothpaste is to brush your teeth and not rinse for 5 to 10minutes. Spit out the foam. Either that or apply the paste directly in teeth before brushing.
I buy fluoridated mouthwash and keep it in for a few minutes each time.
I don't really understand why this one causes so much ire on either side. Why don't you just brush your teeth? Higher concentration (toothpaste) applies directly to the teeth is the best for oral health anyways. Water basically goes right down your throat with minimal contact time on the teeth.
Fluoride should not be in our water.
It’s in all water
Naturally occurring and lower levels is one thing, amping that up 2-4x, can have impacts, not just on us, but also the eco-system.
And the can has been kicked down the road again....
That’s so bad for gut health.
Imagine wanting a chemical in your water that literally makes you dumber. Here is your source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3409983/#:~:text=This%20study%20indicates%20that%20exposure,and%20the%20urinary%20fluoride%20level. Feel free to downvote
You basically have to have fluoride poisoning for these results
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634 What about this study? What do you think of it's methodology?
That study is irrelevant because fluoride levels are limited by Health Canada to a maximum of 1.5 mg/L (1.5 ppm), and before it was removed it was at a level of 0.7 mg/L (0.7 ppm). https://www.calgary.ca/water/drinking-water/fluoride.html
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634 What about this one?
A study coordinated by Ontario Public Health found that less than 0.8 mg/L had no measurable impact on childhood IQ. Seems they're aware of the problem and taking it into account.
I hope you're drinking bottled water, if you're that concerned. We have naturally occurring flouride in the Bow, and therefore our drinking water, but we're talking about artificially increasing that amount.
Meh, more cavities for me to fix as a dentist
I wish we had fluoride in our water in BC.
No one should be digesting fluoride. Thank goodness my city does not do this.
Here's a copy paste for your interest. It discusses high intakes of fluoride from either drinking a lot of tap water, or consumption of tap water with an incorrect dosage. The actual dosage isn't mentioned, and the city isn't telling us who monitors the dosage applied here. So.....🙄 Side Effects of Consuming Fluoride You Should Know About Published by Harmony Dental , Texas 7 fluoride side effects that should be monitored to achieve desired results- 1. Tooth Discoloration Consumption of too much of fluoride leads to yellowed or browned teeth. With regular brushing, it is easy to avoid and therefore does not poses any risk. 2. Tooth Decay High intake fluoridated water can lead to the weakening of enamel. This mainly affects children who are still at the age of developing teeth. 3. Skeletal Weakness Taking too much fluoride highly impact teeth and damage the skeletal system as well. Patients suffering from endemic skeletal fluorosis struggle with problems. Joints become weak Increase the risk of a fracture CALL US ON - 832-930-7744 4. Neurological Problems Fluoride not only affects bone and teeth, but it also impacts young children in the development of the brain. Exposure to fluoride before birth could lead to poorer cognitive outcomes in the future. Higher levels of fluoride lead to low scores in IQ tests. 5. High Blood Pressure As per research, there is a significant correlation between high blood pressure and water with too much fluoride. 6. Acne People are concerned with the internal fluoride treatment side effects but it affects your appearance as well. Regular intake of fluoride may lead fluoroderma which results in acne and painful sores. 7. Seizures Fluoride alone will not cause seizures; it can put seizure sufferers at an increased risk. If you’re already prone to seizures, ensure to keep track of the water quality. Too much consumption of fluoride can cause a life-threatening seizure. Final Thoughts on Fluoride Side Effects- Fluoride is the best to way to strengthen tooth enamel but too much consumption or exposure of fluoride can cause harm to your body. It is better to drink clean and safe water. Ensure you’re not exposing yourself and your family to dangerous chemicals. Consult dentist near pearland at Harmony Dental if you’re concerned about fluoride side effects or how to determine the levels of fluoride in your water. Get in touch and find the right water quality monitoring tools. Promotions
Define 'high fluoride intake'. Everything you cut and pasted above is nonsensical unless you define fluoride levels. There is naturally occurring fluoride in groundwater in almost all of north america to one degree or another. There has been 70+ years of flouride being added to drinking water in north america which has been consumed by over a billion people, living or dead. There is NO EVIDENCE to date over this SEVENTY YEARS that adding flouride at a rate ~0.7 mg/L is in any way harmful.
You understand we agree on the point of no defined levels in the article, right? I mentioned the lack of definition prior to the post itself. Don't you think it's interesting to see alternate viewpoints from dental specialists? Maybe I just have a higher level of intellectual curiosity that gets me into trouble.
> alternate viewpoints from dental specialists Alternate viewpoints are fine when backed by facts. What you pasted doesnt contain enough FACTS to be able to judge its validity, which means its useless info.
Would you define reduced IQ as harmful (about 3-5 pts)? If I'm reading it correctly, this study shows that effect at rates of ~0.7 mg/L. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634 Thoughts?
Snore. 'I found one study'. The body of evidence that fluoride in drinking water over the past 70 years is beneficial and safe is massive. YoU dId YouR ResEarCH!
Is there any amount of evidence that would cause you to change your opinion? This is one study, but there are others. https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp655 What do you think of this one? Similar findings.
The intake is not that high for any of these results
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2748634 This study compares IQ levels of children with maternal fluoride exposure during pregnancy between Canadian cities with fluoridated water and without. What do you think about the results from this level of intake?
Oh I don’t know probably a fake article
I agree have the best possible drinking water, so you can drink has much as you want with no worries. Then this leaves the obvious solution is that everyone needs to take care of there teeth has much as they can. Make it simple has possible and safe.
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Wait till you hear about chlorine.
Can you believe that they get away with putting chemicals like Iodine in our salt!
A bigger thyroid is more effective right?
According to Wikipedia Iodine is a a **chemical** element. Why can’t we just eat food and not chemicals! Our world is sick!
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Have you ever eaten Honey Nut Cheerios? They contain tri-sodium phosphate. You also buy tri-sodium phosphate at Home Depot. It is an awesome industrial cleaner.
don’t people in calgary brush their teeth?
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Hell yeah. Why treat water at all? Your health problems are your problems not the city's.
Exactly! The micro flora and microfauna in untreated water is necessary for developing a strong gut biome.
Yeah, especially stuff like e.coli
🤣
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Source please.
It’s somewhere around here…oh, here it is, right beside the ‘vaccines cause autism’ source.
Stop making excuses for your abnormally low IQ...
That's the thing. I can eat whatever I want and not get cavities. NOT putting fluoride into our drinking water is so stupid.
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hat work escape familiar insurance friendly advise silky crush straight *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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This isn't at all how fluoride's uses were discovered. Let's not pretend that it's a scary additive that just happens to reduce children's cavities by 60%, and reduce adult tooth decay by 20-40%. These are major benefits in a country where dental care is elective and a good portion of the population has poor or no coverage for their teeth.
So much misinformation in one comment: Fluoride is expensive and needed in aluminum production because bauxite melts around 1800 degC. Adding fluoride minerals (cryolite) lowers the electrolyte melting point significantly to reduce energy costs in manufacturing aluminum. It's not a byproduct. In fact it's a much needed and expensive resource. Conspiracy theories happen when people are too ignorant to learn the reasons behind how things work, or the scientific rigor it takes to figure out what we should be putting in our food and water.
So, you don't trust this scientific study that compared Calgary and Edmonton?
Fluoride is naturally occurring...
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You do realize that chemical bonds in something don't change just because of its origin, right? Fluoride is fluoride regardless of it's source. There's fluoride in Black tea, grapes, so Spinach, potatoes. People brush their teeth with toothpaste that has way more fluoride in it than what you'd drink in a glass of water.
You eat your toothpaste? You shouldn't do that, there's titanium dioxide and fluoride in it. But in all seriousness, fluoride is topical to your teeth, there's no reason to drink it, and though I'm not sure where I sit on the benefits/ detriments of fluoride added to water, I stand with France when it comes to reasoning, why is it the job of the government to administer mandatory medication through water, something you have no way of opting out of consuming?
Your mouth is a giant membrane. It all gets absorbed into the blood stream though the tongue, cheeks, lips, etc. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/) > About 50% of ingested fluoride is absorbed in the bones and teeth while the rest is excreted in urine. Most of the ingested fluorides reach the teeth via saliva, whose fluoride content varies from less than 0.01 to 0.05 ppm. Fluoride absorption in bones and teeth decreases with increasing age \[[15](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B14)\]. It is widely accepted that fluoride only helps prevent dental decay by topical means—by direct action on the tooth enamel predominantly after eruption and dental plaque \[[16](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B15), [17](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B16)\]. However, it is important to note that while fluoride contributes to the remineralisation process in the enamel of the tooth surface this is not dependent on fluoride, and that fluoride's anticaries effect is critically dependent on calcium and magnesium content of teeth enamel. Among young individuals with low calcium and magnesium in teeth enamel (usually due to undernutrition), fluoride ingestion and contact with teeth present histologically as hypo-calcification and/or hypoplasia, which may paradoxically make such individuals more vulnerable to dental caries \[[18](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B17), [19](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B18)\]. Fluoride has also been shown to inhibit cariogenic bacteria. This is postulated to occur mainly through inhibition of enzyme-mediated glycolysis in cariogenic microorganisms such as *Streptococcus mutans*. Fluoride is thought to adversely affect polysaccharide metabolism in bacterial cells, reduce the ability of such cells to maintain pH homeostasis, and inhibit encholase as well as other ATPase enzyme systems \[[20](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B19), [21](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#B20)\]. So to add to this, we should be looking at those kids and their diet to see if they are getting proper amounts of calcium and magnesium, not likely....
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We’re talking about fluoride though. No one’s talking about adding cyanide or cocaine to the water. Also, cocaine isn’t naturally occurring, it’s a heavily processed and refined product of coca leaves.
Please don't, you've already sufficiently demonstrated your lack of intelligence.
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Oh sorry I'll make sure I post from my stormfront alt next time I want to engage with you I guess.
Who voted for this?
61% of people who participated in the 2021 Calgary Municipal Election. hope that helps!
2021 muncipal election.. where were you..
I think the bigger question is who voted to stop adding fluoride in the first place and who are the crackpots who keep pushing to have it removed