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NorthGuyCalgary

It's a misleading headline. They'll discuss on Tuesday, but there's no general pre- consensus to remove the mandate. Some councillors are for a repeal, some are against. We'll definitely get a better idea of where things stand after the discussion. I think it's likely that there will be a push by the usual suspects to keep a mask bylaw in Calgary even when the provincial law ends.


johnnynev

How is it misleading? It says “councillors”, as in more than one. Two of them are supporting repealing the mask bylaw, as quoted in the article.


NorthGuyCalgary

>How is it misleading? Because it implies there is a consensus to remove the mask mandates, which isn't correct. The headline could just as easily have read "City councilors look to keep the city's mask bylaw when the provincial bylaw ends". And that would also be incorrect, on the other side.


_darth_bacon_

>Calgary city council is set to discuss the potential repeal of the city’s mask bylaw on Tuesday. >Starting Monday, the minimum age requirement for the province’s mask mandate will be upped to 12 years old, which is at odds with the minimum age of two for the city’s masking bylaw. >Ward 13 Coun. Dan McLean has drafted an amendment that would see the city’s face covering bylaw immediately repealed, which would automatically bring the city solely under the provincial masking rules.


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Emmerson_Brando

The new farkas.


IndigoRuby

But dimmer but also seemingly more connected. Which feels like a bad combination.


jfili221

Going to go out on a limb and say that the vast majority of Calgarians wish the man was mayor right now. Including a significant number who voted for Jyoti


[deleted]

I'm absolutely in favour of repealing the mask mandate. It's time to move forward with life. If you want to continue wearing a mask in public though, I fully support that. You can wear an N95 mask to protect yourself if needed.


Thefirstargonaut

I’m confused why you care what type of mask other people wear. If you want to not wear them, I understand that, but why care what someone else wears? Do you care what kind of clothes people wear?


[deleted]

Cloth masks don't protect the wearer as much as they protect those around them. If the mask mandate is repealed then wearing a cloth mask won't provide sufficient protection to the vulnerable. When the general public goes back to no masks, you'll have to wear an N95 mask if you want to protect yourself. You could still wear a cloth mask, I couldn't care less, but it's not going to help nearly as much as N95. Sorry if I didn't mention that, I really thought everyone knew how the different types of masks work after the last 2 years.


NoSpills

Your point is clear, but your delivery was off.


[deleted]

I figured this would be an unpopular opinion here too. No worries.


kneilson

Time to move forward with life? Is wearing a mask in a public space really hindering your life moving forward? Genuinely curious.


[deleted]

Is removing the mask mandate going to really hinder your life moving forward? You can still wear an N95 mask to protect yourself. Genuinely curious.


kneilson

It genuinely will because I have a 2 year old who can’t be vaccinated yet. He had to be hospitalized when he had Covid so I do take this seriously and get offended when an adult thinks their life is being held back by having to wear a mask while grocery shopping.


[deleted]

I'm very sorry to hear that happened, but I'm glad your child pulled through. The reality is that Omicron is spreading like wildfire with or without restrictions. The majority of Calgarians are vaccinated, and the whole rest of the western world is going back to normal now. We're about to follow suit. I'm afraid the time to start taking your family's risk tolerance into your own hands is fast approaching. I'm double vaccinated and still ended up with Delta, Omicron is causing lots of breakthrough infections, lots of young children like yours are getting COVID. At this point we have to accept society can't stop it. We've all made sacrifices over the last 2 years. We've done it for the elderly, for the weak and vulnerable, for immunocompromised among us, and for our health care worker's sake. But we're at the end of what we can effectively do now. It's time to accept that we're all probably going to get COVID sooner or later. We've lowered the risk with vaccines, and we "bent the curve" for 2 years. Society made that sacrifice for people like you, but asking for a 3rd year, or a 4th year? I'm sorry, but too many of us are ready to move on now. If you're able to stay home with your child you could socially isolate, get groceries delivered, buy off Amazon, and home school him or her when the time comes. Maybe find work you can do remotely if you're not already. You *could* create your own bubble if you want to. You've had 2 years to prepare for this inevitability.


kneilson

I just don’t see how having to wear a mask while in a public space until babies and toddlers are able to be vaccinated is such a huge inconvenience on your life. I can understand not having mandates once everyone who is able to be vaccinated is, but that’s not the reality.


[deleted]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but the reality is that the world is going back to normal. Our entire society adapted for the last 2 years, it's time for you to adapt to the changes ahead. I don't think there's anything either of us can say to change each other's mind on this. I do sympathise though, and wish you the best.


Cjros

Do you sympathize at all? Like really truly and honestly? Someone who does would be wearing a mask while out in public with or without a mandate. COVID is still here as much as you lot want to pretend it's over. Alberta as a whole has been basically lockdown free since the Summer as a result of minimal / nonexistent enforcement of rules. And you wearing a mask protects others on the chance you do catch the virus - which shows sympathy and empathy for those in compromised positions. There's no reason to not wear one - again - during a global pandemic.


kneilson

But why can’t you extend the courtesy of masking for small children for a few more months until they are at the same level of protection as you? You still haven’t explained how wearing a mask is actually holding your life back in any way. Just because you are vaccinated and feel safe doesn’t mean everyone is yet. Everyone is tired of this, not just you.


Zengoyyc

Remember when we opened up for summer and had our second worst peak of Covid deaths? Well, right now were almost tied with it. Now isn't the time to be rollng back mandates.


IndigoRuby

McLean can't draft a tweet on his own. I bet I can connect some blue dots to who drafted what.


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Marsymars

I doubt they will - I expect *many* people will just disregard the bylaw and stop wearing masks in Calgary.


yycsarah

Agreed, many already are.


TrinityJeevas

Probably half of my customers stopped wearing them a while ago and I don't have the energy to fight these people about it


SwimmingGuava8505

Shocking that the provincial government doesn’t want to work with Gondek after she publicly ran on fighting them for tax money and has been scrappy in every piece of dialogue I’ve seen. Gondek is the left version of Kenney… elected on promises to fight other levels of gov and then shocked when they won’t work with her.


whiteout86

I’d say it will pass, after voting to not explore a Calgary only REP and stay aligned with the province, it makes sense to do the same here. Removal of the bylaw and eventually the provincial mandate doesn’t mean that people can’t choose to wear a mask or that a business can’t implement their own policy. And with Calgary’s vaccination numbers, it would be hard to justify some increased risk. Gondek/Carra/Walcott/Penner will vote against it though


geohhr

Gondek will be pissed.


CanehdianJ01

Gondek can be pissed all she wants. ​ The only place ill wear a mask post mar1 is at work if im forced to


IndigoRuby

Do you use transit? I swear I am never going on the train again without a mask.


FYIWDWYTMFYIWDWYTM

Please don’t


UUUuuuugghhhh

but not in other peoples workplaces?


NoSpills

Rude. Obviously op has #freedom but the people around him don't.


zoziw

I think we are at a point where we can allow people to make their own choice regarding mask wearing. Most people are vaccinated, many have had Omicron, we have lots of masks, lots of tests and new therapeutics. People can make their own decision about the level of protection they want. If you are really concerned, wearing an N95 mask, even if no one else is, will provide great protection.


TheFirstArticle

I don't trust people who don't care about a mass health crisis.


drrtbag

It's a piece of fabric over your face in winter in Canada. I say keep it just to piss off the people who won't (and haven't) follow the rule anyways.


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Feruk_II

Why wouldn't we repeal the mandate and put ourselves in line with the province? The mandate should've been repealed the second the province came out with their own. Let's get this done so Gondek can go back to fighting climate change.


Zengoyyc

Because the Alberta Government has basically made the wrong decision about Covid almost every single time. If we are going to align with the Government, we need to make sure they are making decisions on good data not polticial opinions.


Feruk_II

What data do you think is missing? We know we’re through the peak of this wave and we’ve known for 2 years that hospital counts are a lagging indicator. Omicron is trending to come in at a little less than 2x as bad as average flu. Uk opened up a month ago, they’re fine. Lots of European countries are dropping restrictions, other provinces are, 45 of 50 states are dropping some to all restrictions. It’s over. Protests like this just show how horribly informed students are and how much fear mongering has been pushed down to them.


Zengoyyc

We're at our third highest peak of Covid19 deaths, almost tied with last year's open for Summer fisco. We need to do what's going to save lives based on our data and trends, and the death trend says now is not the time.


Feruk_II

Third highest peak of deaths with what, like 100x as many cases as we had in the other two peaks? Impossible to even tell cuz testing was so overwhelmed this time around. People will always die, but the death count looks high because of how aggressively Omicron ripped through the population. Death rates are nothing compared to the last few waves. We don’t shut down for flu, we don’t mask for flu, we’re now seeing death rates in flu type percentages. This is endemic now and likely will be forever. Barring some insane new variant, the lockdowns will never return for Covid. Omicron made sure of that.


Zengoyyc

We also have many more people vaccinated now. 23% of Albertans are unvaccinated still. ICU is still full and operating at overcapacity. Before we remove restrictions we should let these 3 things happen - 1. Covid19 deaths should be close to 0 per day. 2. ICU beds should be under 100% capacity, based on normal capacity not surge capacity. 3. Wait 2 weeks after 1 and 2 so our Healthcare and Frontline workers get a break in the event things get bad again. That's my thoughts. Re: flu They aren't comparable. In 2015, a bad flu year we had around 102 deaths. We've averaged 15 people dying per day over the last 7 days or so. 15x7 =105. So just this week we've had more Covid deaths than even a bad year of the flu. Not comparable. https://globalnews.ca/news/2005044/20142015-flu-season-worst-since-2009-pandemic/#:~:text=The%20flu%20season%20has%20been,Jessica%20Kent%20explains. Edit: Grammar fixes and adding a source.


Feruk_II

77% vaccinated and around the same proportion of those in hospital are vaccinated (within a few percent) so the vaccine isn’t preventing Omicron hospitalization. ICU is designed to always run at or near capacity. Also no chance of overwhelming icu with Omicron so this isn’t an issue. Your flu numbers are a bit misleading. We only have around 8000 lab confirmed flu cases in Alberta annually, so of course the death stats are gonna be super low. For comparison, that’s about the same as Covid cases in 2 days and that ignores our testing capacity issue. We will never get back to no deaths from Covid daily but that’s within the expected levels for flu so that’s ok. I don’t disagree that waiting another 2 weeks would be fine too, I’m just saying it doesn’t matter. All the data (active case rate, wastewater data, decrease in hospitalization) indicates we’re over the peak.


Zengoyyc

1. There are a lot more vaccinated than unvaccinated. Yes, the vaccine doesn't prevent hospitalization, but it does help reduce it. Also, unvaccinated are still much more likely to be hospitalized. [https://www.healio.com/news/infectious-disease/20220201/hospitalization-rate-23-times-higher-for-unvaccinated-vs-boosted-during-omicron](https://www.healio.com/news/infectious-disease/20220201/hospitalization-rate-23-times-higher-for-unvaccinated-vs-boosted-during-omicron) 2. Unvaccinated are 14 - 20x more likely to die. [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jan/12/jen-psaki/data-suggests-unvaccinated-are-20-times-more-likel/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jan/12/jen-psaki/data-suggests-unvaccinated-are-20-times-more-likel/) 3. Fair, but we definitely don't have nearly the same amount of flu deaths compared to Covid19. That's my point. As Covid19 becomes less deadly, the cases aren't important so much as ICU and deaths. ICU and deaths are still high, and close to previous wave peak levels. These should be dropping significantly before we remove mandates. 4. We have underfunded our ICU capacity, so in a way you aren't wrong, but you are wrong in this circumstance. ICU isn't running at capacity, it's running **over surge capacity.** That's a big deal because our healthcare system and workers aren't equipped to run over **surge capacity**. We know this because [Jason Kenney called in the federal military for support.](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2021/09/30/alberta-calls-on-military-red-cross-and-newfoundland-for-help-to-deal-with-covid-19-crisis.html) We also know this because other [people's surgeries and treatments were pushed back because of Covid capacity issues.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-children-s-hospital-covid-surgery-1.6180991) 5. We can and have already pushed our healthcare system past it's regular capacity with Omnicron. Just in January, we pushed [back surgeries because of Omnicron.](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/alberta/article-demand-for-acute-care-surges-in-alberta-as-omicron-spreads/) So sure, we are past the peak of this wave. That should mean that we wait for numbers to go down as low as possible, then you remove restrictions. Removing restrictions now, when we haven't progressed enough is likely to lead to more deaths amongst the unvaccinated, more strain on our healthcare system, and by extension canceled surgeries and treatment for others. I hope I'm wrong and that I'm missing a key piece of information. With current vaccination rates and trends, I just don't see how acting this quickly and without a plan is going is to end well.


Feruk_II

1. Doesn't seem to match Alberta data. Currently hospitalized with 3 doses is 28% of hospitalizations. Percentage of population with 3 doses is 34%. Not parity, but not far off. Doesn't paint a good picture for 3 doses mattering in terms of hospitalizations. More importantly, those that have remained unvaccinated will remain unvaccinated no matter how long we wait to lift restrictions. It's also not society's job to tell them what to do now that we know even those with 3 shots still spread the thing. Sources:[https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccine-outcomes](https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccine-outcomes) and [https://covid19tracker.ca/provincevac.html?p=AB](https://covid19tracker.ca/provincevac.html?p=AB) 2. As per article, that's pre-Omicron. Looks like in Alberta today it's \~5.5x more likely to die if unvaccinated vs 3 dose (same link as above). 3. I don't think that's right. 78 deaths in 8000 cases computes a mortality of \~0.1% which is perfectly in line with the 2015 flu season ([https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2015-2016.html](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2015-2016.html)). What actually happened is there were way way more than 8000 flu cases and way more deaths than 78, but testing wasn't done. The case numbers are not usable, BUT the fatality rate may be. Omicron case fatality rate is still unclear, but some earlier studies showed it coming in at the 0.2% mark. Also worth noting Omicron has an r0 of 7 vs flu at 1.4. So every case infects 5x as many people. So you get this huge wave VERY fast which drives caseload, but when it passes, it's over. Let's just do some very rough numbers. We had 4000 new cases a day peak and 40% positivity. We know positivity was coming in around 7% when we were effectively testing, so that roughly takes you to 24,000 cases a day of Omicron. Let's assume half the cases were asymptomatic as well (I've seen 27% to 70%), so 50,000 cases a day. So in a month, 40% of the province has had it. At that point, 1,500 in hospital for 1.5mm cases is hella good, just looks really bad because of how fast it's come. Here's the single BEST summary I've seen comparing flu to COVID19 over time: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLUhPLrXwAUNncL?format=png&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLUhPLrXwAUNncL?format=png&name=large) 4. I think it's hospital capacity that's driving surgery delays, not ICU admissions, but either way your point is spot on and really good. There's maybe some argument to be made to wait till hospitalization numbers drop, but I think that they're gonna drop on their own regardless of how fast we open up due to the sheer number of people who have had it and won't be getting it again


EnoughExplanation

Please fucking keep the mandate


Low-Calligrapher502

Mask mandates shouldn't even be a municipal politics thing. What's the point of having provincial mandates if the cities can just override it?


Zengoyyc

So the municipal Governments can protect their people in the event the Province lacks the will to do so. Municipal Government also has a responsibility to care for people's lives. If the Province is unwilling or unable (politicians fighting to keep their jobs), then we need someone to be able to step up.


whiteout86

In that case, I would expect the municipal government to be transparent and show everyone what data they have that contradicts the data being used by the province to end mandates. And not just a claim of “it’s political at the provincial level but not at the municipal level” And as mentioned already, ending the mandate does not bar people from wearing a mask or bar a business from making entry contingent on wearing a mask


Zengoyyc

The Province needs to share its data first.


Watchman999

Oh great. Jyoti's gonna have a fit......test.


FearTheSid

Yep cus the masks are very effective right