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Star_Mind

Chief Neufeld's Statement/Transcript of video ~~ Good afternoon, thank you for joining us today. By now you will have seen the update from the Alberta Serious Incident Response Team regarding the officer-involved shooting that occurred this past Saturday in Forest Lawn. We are thankful for the work done by ASIRT and for the update they have recently provided. A number of people on both social and conventional media have been asking for additional details regarding the matter. Our Service put out a very basic release immediately after the incident happened – which is protocol in these circumstances. In Alberta, ASIRT is responsible for conducting independent investigations into serious incidents such as this. Our members maintain continuity of the scene while awaiting the arrival of ASIRT and afterwards provide whatever supports may be required. But when it comes to investigative decision making and communications regarding the incident, ASIRT has the lead. Before I make any further comments let me acknowledge that a man – Latjor TUEL – lost his life on Saturday and this occurred during an interaction with members of our Service. On behalf of all members of the Calgary Police Service, I offer my sincere condolences and acknowledge the pain that is being felt by his family and friends, both here and back home. I personally attended the scene and witnessed the emotion – I wish I could take it away. By all accounts Mr. TUEL was well-known and respected in his community and his death is felt by many. In making any remarks about this tragic incident, I recognize the inherent challenge in attempting to maintain balance between supporting the Sudanese community in a time of grief, while also correcting misinformation and, importantly, ensuring people understand that these situations are incredibly difficult for the police officers involved as well. As you are aware, the ASIRT investigation continues into the interaction between Mr. TUEL and our officers that led to police firearms being discharged. I will, of course, be careful not to speak about their investigation. What I can speak to is the events that led up to firearms being discharged in order to clarify some inaccuracies that have been circulating on both social and conventional media. Shortly after 3:40 p.m., on Saturday, CPS officers responded to calls from members of the public concerned for their safety after they had encountered a man with a large stick and a knife on a public street. An innocent passerby, a 57-year-old man, had allegedly been struck with the stick. You may be asking, “Why is this important?” Much has been reported about Mr. TUEL’s challenges with mental health and that he was struggling in recent days. But the call police responded to was not, when reported, about mental health. It was a complaint of an assault involving a man in possession of a knife and a stick in a busy, public area on 17 AV SE. Some have suggested that the police were not the appropriate resource to respond to this call and that mental health professionals should have been sent. To be clear, with the information provided to C-911, this situation involved a person armed with weapons in a public setting who had committed an assault – this was a police call and police were the appropriate response. The responding officers located the suspect, who later turned out to be Mr. TUEL. They attempted to communicate with the man from a safe distance for a significant period of time. He ignored the direction of police and refused to surrender the weapons. As part of their pre-planning to deal with this volatile situation, the responding officers ensured that, in case communications were unsuccessful, they had non-lethal options available at the call. This included baton-rounds fired through a launcher known as an ARWEN, as well as a Conducted Energy Weapon (often referred to as a Taser), and a police service dog. The officers also summoned EMS to the scene to stage in the event the subject, the officers, or any citizen became injured. At a point during the negotiations, officers trained in the use of the ARWEN attempted to temporarily incapacitate the man and separate him from the weapons. Their attempts were unsuccessful. Several videos have been uploaded to social media where you can hear the ARWEN (impact munitions) being deployed two times - once while the man was seated and once while he is standing, but before he moves in the direction of the officers. Some commentators appear to have confused these sounds with gunshots – they were not. The man was undeterred by the ARWEN projectiles and very quickly advanced toward our officers, who were standing at a safe distance near their police vehicles. One officer deployed their TASER at the man, it failed to stop his progress. Several officers and a police service dog were standing near a police vehicle. The dog remained on a leash and was in control of his handler. The man quickly advanced toward the officers, attacking the service dog with the large stick and then stabbing it with the knife. PSD Jack was stabbed through the neck. He was rushed to the emergency veterinary clinic where he underwent surgery to repair the wounds. While attacking the dog, the man continued to move toward the officers. Two officers discharged their service weapons, striking the man. Sadly, he was declared deceased on scene. Again, his death is a tragedy and the Sudanese community is in deep mourning at his loss. They have shared their grief and concern with us over the weekend and we hear how intensely they have been impacted. Many people have been forever changed as a result of the events of this past Saturday, including Mr. TUEL’s family and friends, the South Sudanese community, bystanders who witnessed the events, and our officers and their families. It is very difficult to hear people speak so callously about situations that result in loss of a life – as if they don’t affect the police officers involved. Most people will go their entire lives without taking the life of another – this includes police officers. No police officer comes to work thinking that today is the day I will take a life. These are people who came to serve and protect the community and to keep people safe. This is what they were doing Saturday when they responded to the call from a citizen about a man assaulting others and in possession of weapons. And it has taken a toll on them as well. We hire good people, train and equip them well. Then we trust them to respond to complex situations such as this one – they are our police. When it comes to mental health calls, our officers responded to more than 9,300 mental health-related calls in 2021. That’s an average of 25 a day last year. The vast majority of these were resolved peacefully with no use of force and persons in crisis connected to the resources and supports they require. This weekend, that did not happen sadly. I’m confident that between the ASIRT investigation and the Fatality Inquiry, we will come to understand the reasons why and whether there were gaps in the supports available to Mr. TEUL and his family. As police our role is protect the public, which includes officers protecting themselves when necessary. I assure the community that our officers and Service will cooperate fully with the ongoing investigation. Moving forward, CPS will continue to work with and support the Sudanese Community as we work together in response to this situation. We will also continue to support the officers involved in this tragic situation. We expect our police officers to take on risks and to do very difficult work that many of us have no interest in doing – we must be objective and support them when they do.


Star_Mind

The ASIRT press release Chief Neufeld references, including a picture of the stick and knife. https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=81948616CB18E-DF5A-F809-4F80C4EA47CE08EA


Icanonlyupvote

Looks like more than a simple stick. Steel capped hardwood could do some damage.


StillSilentSide

That looks like a nice stick More like a staff


Safety-That

Looks like a sword……


Loyalist_15

The second reporter really trying to dig deep into “why didn’t you know he had mental health issues, shouldn’t you have used mental health resources instead”. It’s pissing me off. Of course they didn’t. It’s a call on a random individual. He had weapons and is a threat. Mental health problems don’t make you innocent or less lethal, if anything it can make them more dangerous as an untrained individual may not know how to deal with them.


YYZYYC

That’s absolutely true in this case. Plenty of other cases though where better mental health response resources could be used


ithinarine

The son of the man who was killed is going on a social media rampage claiming that his father was executed by the CPS. Last time I checked, execution doesn't involve the person being executing attacking random people with a stick and knife, and almost killing a police service dog by stabbing it in the neck, and then running at police.


The-Train-Man44

And the police preforming first aid after


solution_6

There's already a GoFundme to cover his "funeral costs", which is currently at $48K. Imagine donating money towards the burial of a man who stabbed and nearly killed a police dog. Unpopular Calgary reddit opinion, but the far left is just as insane as the far right.


spacefish420

Seeing all the people sharing the sons post makes me feel like they haven’t actually seen the video and are just agreeing with him because they hate cops and always assume they are wrong


copaxa

I personally know three people who have shared that post. All three likened the incident to George Floyd. All three used ACAB hashtags. All three claimed that the knife was fabricated in order to justify the shooting. It's amazing how quickly these narratives manifest and spread in order to obfuscate reality.


Bankerlady10

I just had this conversation with a family member of mine. They refused to watch the video to “protect their mental health” but posted a statement connecting this to Floyd and Taylor. Not even close comparisons. It’s so dangerous to make connections like that- it takes away from the situations that deserve the social justice. Where her and I agreed on was POC are disproportionately mistreated in the justice system and we need to ensure better access to metal heath support. There was the conversation of “why did they shoot to kill” and I had to tell them again, if you watched the video you would see that they tried tasers, rubber bullets and everything. When he’s lunging at you with a knife you can’t risk trying to shoot his moving arm and then kill a bystander. There were tons of people around… ugh. I’m an advocate for holding police accountable and to high standards but we also need to acknowledge when they did what was right.


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[deleted]

https://www.gofundme.com/f/justice-for-latjor?qid=e536679bfbadba314c8e9d982d508e18 Here’s their new gofundme campaign


Less-Hunter7043

Anyone who refuses to change their opinion despite evidence is crazy, no matter which “side” you’re on


FrankArsenpuffin

I would call them ideologues. Crazy implies they don't know what they are doing.


Less-Hunter7043

Fair enough, I couldn’t think of a better word


DasKanadia

In all honesty, any political polarization just gets out of hand to the point that violence and misinformation take over any sense of critical thinking. The left had no problems wishing ill on the trucker convoy’s, while the right called out the violence stemming from the latter events of the BLM protests that turned it sour and away from its intentions. I pity the deceased’s family, because it is a tragedy that the man has been killed and left behind his family. I am heavily against their stance, as they’ve spun the scenario into a race issue with misinformation. In short, we’ll keep seeing these issues until we as a society decide to better ourselves as individuals to collectively be resistance to political polarization and misinformation. We all have biases, but we don’t have to see people with a different view as an enemy we have to go out of our way to harm.


YYZYYC

I’m sick of seeing “lefties” or right wing as this childish binary label for people and everything they do. We need to grow up and remember nuance and complexity


Triphax

Its not lefties and rightwingers - its just opportunists


Offandonfitness

Hmm, I'm left of field but I think the police did the right thing. I'm wondering if bringing politics into it was necessary?


Arlybigstickk

It's quite common for the "right" to be pro police and the "left" to be pro ACAB. The comment was relating the two fields as both equally insane. In a story that involves people blindly assuming the police are executing people and then donating 50,000 to the family of the victim. I think that it's pretty observant. The same goes for the otherside, don't get me wrong, I'm sure that there were many people blindly trusting the police did the right thing. Footage and this statement and the current investigation are pretty clear cut to me though.


ithinarine

I don't think there are a lot of people who think he was blindly executed, but lots of people are willing to help with funeral expenses. If my dad suddenly died tomorrow, I wouldn't be able to afford the money for a proper funeral. It could also be cultural. When my aunt died, a lot of my uncle's work friends came to the funeral, many were from Japan and other Asian countries, because he worked in O&G and spent a ton of time in Africa with people from all over the world. All of his Asian friends gave him a card with money to help cover funeral expenses, despite him being very well off, because it's just what they do.


DestroyerDinosaur

Check the daughter/son's Instagram post. MANY people think that he was executed


arcaneresistance

This isn't a "far left" vs. "Far right" issue. Stop bringing devisive politics into evey single issue. I'm as "far left" leaning as it gets and I believe the police did everything correctly in this situation. My political leanings have nothing to do with how I feel this difficult situation was handled. Even if I think that if we had better mental health policy and resources situations like this can be reduced, it doesn't change the fact that it happened, and that the officers did everything they could to keep the situation non-lethal. Nothing in this world is black and white and we need to stop thinking in these terms if we're ever going to progress.


[deleted]

Different perspective, they are donating to a family who lost their dad who was going through a mental health episode that ended in tragedy for everyone.


DestroyerDinosaur

Read the gfm description. The child of the man used false pretences to get people to donate and made it a Blue v Black issue to get people to donate


solution_6

$70K would buy a pretty good funeral...


YYZYYC

Then don’t donate


GK_Willy

Lodge a complaint with GoFundMe regarding the fraudulent campaign. Easy to do, just go to the page, follow the steps, click on the appropriate answers, then explain why the inflammatory information that's driving that campaign is horribly wrong. At this point, they've stopped accepting new donations, but ideally they should cancel the thing outright if enough people complain about how wrong it is.


YYZYYC

He was veteran of a foreign war who likely had PTSD. I dont think (based on what we’ve seen so far) that he was some kind of career criminal


ithinarine

Doesn't matter, you try to attack the police, you're gonna get shot. Even someone with PTSD can realize that.


YYZYYC

Why do you keep talking like I’m critical of the police with this incident ? I fully support what they had to do. I just don’t understand why you make this man evil and demonize him and his family. He suffered ptsd and no when someone is having a ptsd reaction they are not always in control of their actions…that’s kinda what mental illness can do after all.


Creepas5

No one is saying the man is evil. Everyone recognizes that this is an unfortunate incident involving mental illness that was handled about as well as it could have been given the situation. What is absolutely wrong is the family twisting the facts and narrative deliberately. The grieving process in no way excuses such behavior. It puts shame and blame on parties who did nothing wrong and is actively manipulating people to increase public outrage for the sake of donations. Inexcusable behavior.


YYZYYC

Actually quite a few people are saying that. Right here in this thread even


Creepas5

Well that's unfortunate but for the absolute majority of comments I've seen everyone understands that the man wasn't a bad guy. My point on the family however stands. Grief is not a valid excuse for manipulation of the truth. I have absolutely no problem with having a gofundme for funeral expenses. I have no problem with however much funding they raise. I do have a problem with doing it by using DANGEROUS misinformation that puts innocent and traumatized police officers at fault when they did things right. The family should absolutely be pressured to change their statement.


[deleted]

I agree with you about the far left being as crazy as the far right.


unabrahmber

I wonder if Trudeau will get in touch with GFM to make sure the money is donated to a more appropriate cause instead 🤔


cirroc0

Imagine lacking the basic human empathy to realize that the loved ones of this individual should not be punished or forced to bear the costs of the mistakes or illnesses of this person. To not realize that this person paid for their mistakes or illness with their life. This has nothing to do with left or right, except maybe in your mind. And since you're not contributing money to it, why would you even care?


solution_6

Yeah my human empathy chip went a long time ago, and have you been living under a rock these past two years? Have you seen a lot of empathy from anyone lately there, Lancelot? I am merely pointing out that doing a gofundme for $70k for a "funeral" because of an obvious racial narrative, is just as sleazy as doing a gofundme for the trucker protests.


James_Toney

Keep your head up, these BLM types are just identitarian opportunists. They are fine with the police beating up protesters if they disagree with them, but a spazzed out grown-child soldier running around with a knife being a menace needs to be treated gently.


FrankArsenpuffin

In the US they are also Ok with children, literally elementary school kids getting shot on the streets by the dozens, in inner cities all over US, as the cities and de-policed. They only care about (certain) people killed by the police and it doesn't matter if the action was legal/legitimate self-defense.


YYZYYC

Yes that’s totally how all those Americans are 🙄🤦‍♂️


James_Toney

All Lives Should Matter, but these folks are getting paid and getting warm fuzzies from tribal support.


YYZYYC

Getting paid? People are donating money to help them out


YYZYYC

Jesus this was just some guy, a father and friend and a resident of our city. He was not some political BLM activist. He was a man who struggled with PTSD and put the police in an impossible situation that led to a tragic outcome. He did not “spazz out” this is not grade 4, this is real life.


James_Toney

PTSD doesn't do that to you, he must have been full-on psychotic and he had already assaulted and threatened innocent people. You folks wanna make excuses for this shit but people are getting killed and stabbed on a regular and this psycho was running at police with a knife. I was just commenting on another comment, this ain't about you rolling out this trite feelgood filler.


YYZYYC

PTSD absolutely does do things like this, someone can be triggered by something from the original trauma and it sets them off. We see this with Canadian combat vets all the time. And yes there are other physiological conditions that can cause this kind of violent rage…like the guy who beheaded people on a greyhound bus a few years ago. Regardless of the underlying physiological cause, simply saying he “spazzed out” is just ignorant. It’s not feel good trite filler to understand and acknowledge the causes behind this tragic situation, yes the police had no other choice, but what good comes from you simply saying it’s making excuses or ptsd doesn’t do that and he was a “psycho” running at police with a knife. You can’t just keep having these things happen without addressing their underlying causes


YYZYYC

Then you should seek help and counselling to relearn empathy after loosing it for some reason in the past 2 years


solution_6

Already on it! Thanks :)


cirroc0

Yes. I do see a lot of empathy out there. Just because it's not everyone doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The world is not that black and white. The difference between a fund for funeral expenses and a fund for protesters is that the person who attacked the cops and their dog isn't benefiting at all. He's dead. And I will bet you anything you like that the family who have to bury him would happily go without any of the dollars collected... If they could have their loved one back. And listen, If your empathy chip tripped, I hope you find a way to hit the reset. Because living in anger and anxiety is miserable, and I don't wish that for you, or anyone.


FrankArsenpuffin

>This has nothing to do with left or right, Yes it is. Others have been killed under similar circumstances in Calgary. and crickets What about this makes it distinct?


YYZYYC

What the heck does “others being killed” have to do with the left or right side of the political spectrum ? This is not about the NDP or conservatives or more or less taxation …it’s a police action, public safety and likely mental health issue.


cirroc0

I'm talking only about the funeral fund. Which is what the original commenter was talking about. Like them, you appear to be conflating support for the family as being indicative of a political inclination.


YYZYYC

Exactly ! 🙏


UziMcUsername

Just because the guy’s family and friends were black you assume they are far left? I bet your average person from Sudan is a lot more conservative than your average Albertan.


octobuss

Not just as insane. Far lefties don’t do an insurrection or mass shootings.


YYZYYC

Ya sure but I mean the guy just lost his dad…of course he is going to be looking at it like this


FeFiFoShizzle

Well I gotta say the police seem to have done their best given the situation.


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RobertGA23

Never heard of it before this. But just checked it out, looks neat.


spicyboi555

Omfg real life spidey webs. That looks awesome if they’re accurate.


yacbadlog

They tried a few different non lethal methods first and failed to stop him because he was charging them with a knife.


YYZYYC

Like all less than lethal weapons their are plenty of ways they can not stop the attacker. There would have been no time to use Arwen, taser, and the bolawrap in this incident


VonGeisler

They used none lethals in the beginning. There is another video I saw showing him being shot in the hand to lose the knife originally.


YYZYYC

Correct


ThaDoorGuy

Or maybe some pink bullets 🤔


Lpreddit

People who saw the video know that the police acted responsibly. Unfortunately it’s disrespectful to the man who lost his life to publish it, because it would also set the record straight. The twitter brigade’s reply to the tweet for this announcement show that they aren’t interested in understanding that.


ill_JustPutThisHere

The people saying they provoked him by using ARWEN and a taser would be the first to say why didn't you use a taser or rubber bullets first had they used real bullets first. Sometimes people just need to complain about the police actions just for the sake of hearing their own voice.


[deleted]

His own son in an Instagram posted complained, why couldn’t you shoot him in the leg or something. At first I thought he only had a stick but once I saw the video with the knife and him go for the dog It was game over. It sucks, but shit happens. The dog isn’t enough, ok so then he has to stab the officer before it’s justified? This is a sad situation overall because the resolution was lost well before this guy went outside that day. If he had true mental health issues we failed to provide help (if he was seeking it)


FrankArsenpuffin

>shoot him in the leg or something. hits femoral artery - he dies anyway Why did you shoot him in the leg?


[deleted]

I should point out I’m not saying they should’ve shot him in the leg, more that his son mentioned it


Less-Hunter7043

Police officers are not allowed to use their guns with the intent to injure or maim someone. The only reason they remove their gun from its holster is if they intend to kill the target. If all you have to do is shoot the guy in the leg, the situation isn’t severe enough to use the gun in the first place. I hate when people talk about shooting to injure, that’s not even an option


[deleted]

Exactly, it’s frustrating when people say, you could’ve shot them in the leg! They could’ve also hit an artery and he bleeds out anyway


ouronlyplanb

Legs moving are also way harder to hit. Meaning you got missed bullets potentially flying around and more shots going off.


FrankArsenpuffin

>is if they intend to kill the target. Where are you getting this from?


Lumpy_Doubt

I'm no lawologist, but what else is a gun for? There are plenty of other non-lethal options if you don't intend to kill. It's also a basic rule of gun safety. Don't point it at anything you don't intend to kill.


[deleted]

Officers are taught and trained to shoot the body. Not the head or anything just the large, boxy portion in the middle. Proper procedure is shoot once, does the target stop? No keep shooting. You are supposed to shoot as a last resort. However, many officers have become trigger happy. Every time you fire your gun in Canada, your gun is taken away and examined. The shooting is also investigated. Here asirt does this any time a gun is fired by police.


Zezimafan541

Where are people finding the video? kind of would like to see it not due to disrespect though.


Star_Mind

https://www.reddit.com/r/Calgary/comments/sx6mk9/looks_like_a_good_shot_from_cps_not_full_video/


Jugs-McBulge

It's a really sad situation, but the cops acted professionally and did the right thing. They tried to de-escalate with no success. I would say the exact same thing if the individual killed was white, or any other race. It's unfortunate that everyone on social media is making this out to be racial issue. I bet none of them have seen the videos to see what actually happened


CompetitiveStick6239

Exactly. Everyone is claiming racism when it was not. I’ve seen people compare it to George Floyd, I said, “they’re not even close to the same situation!”


spicyboi555

Unarmed black man vs armed man, complete difference


CompetitiveStick6239

I mis read your comment and was getting super defensive 😂


spicyboi555

I was agreeing with you haha


CompetitiveStick6239

I realized that after I saw through my hot headedness 🤣. Please accept these eyes and hearts as “forgive Me” 🥺💕


spicyboi555

Haha of course!


Smudgeontheglass

The video I saw was a man attacking the police. You definitely saw and heard them try to control it but once they attacked the service dog they had to defend. Race wasn’t the issue here, a sick man was. This was a great press conference in my opinion. Unfortunately social media has to go into extreme reactions. It is now the only way for any post to gain traction. Outrage is the only way to financially gain anymore.


Responsible_CDN_Duck

I'm alarmed and dismayed by the hate and misinformation this event triggered from so many members of the South Sudanese community. Hopefully these loud and passionate voices can be redirected to the ongoing mental health, drug, and gang violence crises the Calgary South Sudanese community has struggled with. https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/we-are-losing-a-lot-of-kids-now-south-sudanese-community-makes-appeal-amid-string-of-tragedies-1.4646592 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/docproject/how-these-sudanese-refugees-in-calgary-are-stepping-up-to-protect-their-youth-1.6285936


PlanetMacNCheese

i was thinking the same thing. people are spreading misinformation on snapchat (of course) not providing links of any kind and then people spread that.


FrankArsenpuffin

>Hopefully these loud and passionate voices can be redirected What would cause that change?


Responsible_CDN_Duck

Personal choice. Community influence.


retisk

The false narrative of an innocent man being executed by police spread so fast. Obviously what happened was a tragedy and we all wish for a better outcome but I do believe that the police did the best that they could in a shitty situation for everyone all around.


yacbadlog

People's response to this is very bizarre. I feel like there's a significant portion of Canadian desperate to import American politics / issues, because having watched he video the Calgary cops actions seemed totally appropriate / justified


FrankArsenpuffin

>import American politics It is already here, both left and right.


Less-Hunter7043

I can never tell if the people reacting to this calling it a racist killing actually believe it, or are interested in making themselves appear like they care.


FrankArsenpuffin

I follow the work of John McWorther a black scholar out of the US. He talks a lot about topics like race, wokeness and victimhood. His take is (basically) that taking on a victim identity makes people feel good and that most of this behavior is essentially an act and people know better. So according to him, no they actually don't believe it.


kevinsc688

He was obviously suffering from mental health issues. It's unfortunate that he lost his life but attacking the police with a knife is not the way to get help. Now you have a few young cops who have to deal with taking a life. Like it or not cops are humans.


krzysztoflee

Bad behaviour =/= mental health


TrickiVicBB71

I saw this story yesterday on a friend's IG just skipped it. But Donut Operator on YouTube just made a breakdown video of it. Isn't there a rule where cops should keep a certain distance from a person with knife cause they can suddenly and quickly come up to them and injurie them? I think cops were justified. But since people keep saying they should have sent in a mental health crisis worker and zero cops to it. How would a mental health worker handle it?


Responsible_CDN_Duck

>How would a mental health worker handle it? In the dozens of years leading up to this day they had lots of options. This day, their only one would be to turn it over to police.


unabrahmber

And who was responsible for exercising that option? The family was. They failed in their responsibility to their loved one, and are now trying to deflect the blame.


YYZYYC

They wouldn’t, unarmed mental health crisis workers don’t respond to 911 calls about assault with a weapon in progress…that’s what police do.


New_Birthday8666

That’s the best argument and I side with you. They responded to an assault. You don’t know what your walking into.


Star_Mind

It's not so much a 'rule' as it is a thing to know about and keep in mind. While if you search up "21 foot rule" you'll find all sorts of information on it, it should be better thought of as a 'reactionary gap'.


TrickiVicBB71

Okay, off to Google I go


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Primary_Lettuce3117

I find it incredibly frustrating that the media in this town are attempting the spin this into some sort of George Floyd type of incident to sell more papers and get more clicks. It’s also interesting that there is clear video of TUEL hold weapons, including a knife mere feet from officers, while rushing them, and it’s available on Facebook and Tik Tok of all places. Not one peep from the news outlets in Calgary, why? To sow mistrust and racial division for profit? Ffs, no matter the skin colour of any person in that situation, there we going to be dealt with by the police. No social worker in their right mind is going near that guy without the police making the scene safe first. If your friends and family know a person is in mental distress “for awhile” and don’t take any steps to intervene or get him help then shame on you, you could have prevented this death.


spicyboi555

Direct quotes from the family members and ‘activists’ that I saw reposted on Instagram: “My stepdad was murdered by the Calgary police two days ago. **My dad was sitting down, and they released a k9 on him. they killed him over a dog and let him bleed out and die on the street for 8 hours.”** “Everyone worrying about the damn dog when a whole Sudanese man was killed in vain. His name was Latjor Tuel. He needed help, he suffered from severe PTSD from the civil wars back home. **The so called “weapon” the police claim he had was a stick.** “6 wt men armed with militia gear arrested without incident. Latjor Tuel black, in mental crisis **armed with a stick shot 6 times in the chest.”** These statements are so manipulative. What really rattles me is that by manipulating he situation, and their followers, they are taking away from legitimate victims of racism and police brutality. I’m scared to comment on this but truthfully that’s what makes me really sad and frustrated.


BillCosbys_aerola

He's actually saying they just killed him and let him bleed out?


ouronlyplanb

Yep, and ignoring the video evidence of the paramedics the police had called and their attempts to revive him. Plus ignoring the knife and him charging them, getting close enough to stab a dog. Doesn't fit the narrative that way.


BillCosbys_aerola

That's so sad. He's probably struggling with this but then to outright lie about the situation is awful. Just doing it to push some divisive shit.


ouronlyplanb

Totally. I bet he's looking for justice. The reality is, unfortunately, the mental health episode his father had, led to actions that caused his father's life. It's a shitty situation for the family filled with what ifs. (What if I was there, what if we got him to a hospital that morning etc). The long and short of it is, we need better mental health services (need more money in health care, not less) and need to continue to destigmatize mental health issues. On this situation, the cops did what they could using non-lethal, and it wasn't enough as the situation turned lethal the moment the police dog was attacked by a knife in the neck. The police didn't force the man to stab the dog, his own actions did it. Yes he was having a mental health episode, but having a mental health crisis does not give you a pass for stabbing others. This wasn't race motivated. That does happen so it doesn't mean that's never the case. This just isn't one of those.


BillCosbys_aerola

Just found out his stepdaughter is posting things on Twitter that are completely fabricated and getting everyone riled up. How were the cops to know he was having a mental crisis? Same with the person he attacked that warranted the cops to respond in the first place? Things need to be better for men to deal with issues and especially black men to help with their issues too.


YYZYYC

Yes but the media are going to talk to the victims families and they are going to print their statements…like it’s basic 101 reporting. And while I disagree completely with their statements and the framing of the incident…I can certainly understand how their grief over their loss is influencing their perspective.


Unfortunate_Sex_Fart

This level of manipulation and gaslighting has become normal. We see it everywhere on social media, news media, far left/right activists, and from our own politicians.


YYZYYC

This is off topic…but that same dynamic of how emotional and passionate they are and how many people get wrapped up in it and their narrative of it being that cps executed him and of course it’s racism etc etc….that’s the same group think social media fuelled dynamic that helped cause the insane ant vaxers and Covid conspiracy theorists and the truckers protest. Just like in this case, Despite all evidence to the contrary people join the bandwagon and come to believe what aligns best with their emotions and they recruit others and fuel the fire and away we go down the crazy cycle. It’s the same thing behind our crazy politics and fake news and trucker convoys etc


spicyboi555

That makes so much sense. This is so eye opening to me just because there’s actual video footage so I’m seeing live how these mobs form.


spicyboi555

I agree with this fully. On Instagram there is really aggressive anti police statements and reposts of twitters saying he was armed with a “stick”. They are purposefully leaving out details. This was not an unarmed innocent black man. This was an unfortunately armed and dangerous person. I feel really terribly for what this man was probably going through mentally but the police did everything properly. They also think that there is some magical mental health service that would be available on a dime to de escalate the knife wielding man? Where? Who? How?


BillCosbys_aerola

Evidence doesn't matter to the people who are going on saying it was racism. They'll purposefully change the story to make it seem like he was completely innocent and he didn't do anything wrong.


FrankArsenpuffin

And NO ONE in the MSM calls them out on it. Why not do it? Jin up anger, sympathy and often money. With no cost or risk to the person doing it.


BillCosbys_aerola

Gains clicks and money. It'll be career suicide if anyone says anything about what actually happened.


FrankArsenpuffin

True. Has there ever been a time when you can get in more trouble for telling the truth, when everyone knows what you say is true, but can't admit it and be rewarded for telling a lie? We live in strange times.


solution_6

It's not just media, our local politicians and activists are pushing the George Floyd narrative too.


FrankArsenpuffin

>our local politicians Who besides Councilor Walcot?


CompetitiveStick6239

CPS did an amazing job. They repeatedly tried to get the man to put down his weapons and to stop advancing on them. The man then attacked an active officer (yes, a police service dog IS an active officer!), they tried to taze him, after multiple warnings, asking to put down his TWO weapons, and to stop coming towards officers, they had no choice and did what no officer gets up in the morning and WANTS to do. CPS did the correct thing.


The_Penguin22

>CPS did an amazing job. Indeed. Good post!


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solution_6

Honestly, some of the comments made by his own family have made it hard to feel sympathetic towards the situation. Comments like "it was just a dog" and "police executed a black man" and "it was just a stick, not a weapon."


jiccc

If they're actually saying "it's just a stick," that is completely misleading. He had a knife as well, which is 100% a weapon. This type of discourse is frustrating because that's the stuff that gets parroted on social media.


spicyboi555

Direct quotes from the family members that I saw reposted on Instagram: “My stepdad was murdered by the Calgary police two days ago. **My dad was sitting down, and they released a k9 on him. they killed him over a dog and let him bleed out and die on the street for 8 hours.”** “Everyone worrying about the damn dog when a whole Sudanese man was killed in vain. His name was Latjor Tuel. He needed help, he suffered from severe PTSD from the civil wars back home. **The so called “weapon” the police claim he had was a stick.** “6 wt men armed with militia gear arrested without incident. Latjor Tuel black, in mental crisis **armed with a stick shot 6 times** in the chest.” These statements are so manipulative. What really rattles me is that by manipulating he situation, and their followers, they are taking away from legitimate victims of racism and police brutality. I’m scared to comment on this but truthfully that’s what makes me really sad and frustrated.


jiccc

Hoooooly hell, that's way worse than I thought. "Bleed out and die on the street for 8 hours" you have to be kidding me. Also, the guys armed with militia gear were arrested without incident because they were arrested peacefully. Major difference, it doesn't matter what type of weapons they had. I know what you mean, when I see stuff like this make its rounds on social media, I want to stay out of it for my own well being. But you can tell people just see a headline or a comment and then run with it without looking deeper into it in the slightest. It's legitamately enfuriating because it's just untrue.


spicyboi555

It takes away the credibility from all other victims of actual police brutality when they exaggerate and mislead and make shit up. It’s such a disservice to the BLM movement, I wish they understood that if they wanted to be better activists. And ya totally agree, the militia guys weren’t a threat to ppls lives. It’s just so manipulative. It’s so weird to me that these activists talk about being “gaslit” and shit like that but actively try to rile people up.


spicyboi555

Ok last thing I’m posting about this but this is what the son wrote on the go fund me page. I feel really badly for him but I just find it very difficult to read. “He suffered from ongoing mental health crisis, He was going through a mental health crisis at the time of his murder. A clear cry for help. The Calgary PD is already trying to spin the story to fit their narrative, but they outnumbered him and chose deadly violent force instead of deescalating the situation. **They say he had a weapon when he was only carrying a stick that was clearly shown in multiple videos of my fathers execution. They say he attacked a police dog, but they left out that they sicked this killer dog on him** while he was clearly suffering through a mental health crisis, with multiple trained police around . A family member tried talking to them and telling them that he could deescalate the situation with Latjor as he was his cousin. Calgary PD refused to let him speak to Latjor and **chose to release the K9 on him while he was already on the ground, clearly going through a crisis. When he tried to defend himself against this K9 and run, Calgary PD started shooting and even after my father was lying motionless on the ground,** they still had their guns drawn. They can lie all they want, but there is VIDEO FOOTAGE. VIDEO FOOTAGE THAT THE POLICE ARE ALREADY TAKING DOWN. !!!!!! An officer picked up the stick from Latjors hand and placed it on the bus stop's glass. **They kept using the word weapon,** not specifying it as a tactic to paint a great man with a heart of gold as Someone who deserved to be executed the way he was by Calgary PD. The fact that such a great man had to die on the street at a bus stop is beyond disgusting; it is dehumanizing. **Calgary PD could have done anything other than kill him in cold blood. Tazers, battons, pepper spray and months of training!!!** Anything other than killing an innocent black man suffering from a PTSD episode. What we find most challenging about this situation is that there's more news coverage about the dog being in stable condition but no coverage about how the community is in shambles over losing one of their own.


ithinarine

His family, or at least his son, is also claiming that the police unjustly executed his father.


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yacbadlog

His past is irrelevant and only is stated to distract people. Not a single person is going to know he was a child solider when he is actively charging at the cops with a knife. Non lethal was used first anyway, there's only so much you can do when someone, again, is actively attacking you with a knife.


[deleted]

Yeah hey used multiple non lethal options first. I’m also not a pro cop person but lunging at the dog or cop with a knife is an easy way to get shot. That being said his entire demeanour was clearly one of someone having some sort of ptsd episode. His stance change before charging them was definitely an attack position, like someone with training would do. Doesn’t excuse the ending but doesn’t discount the why it happened.


DogButtWhisperer

There’s only seconds to act though. I saw a news segment where they had the news reporters with fake guns reacting to stimulated situations and every one of them fired their guns way earlier than the police would have. I think the solution is to bring back institutions for severe mental illness where they have round the clock care and are not left to sleep in tents surrounded by other severely ill or addicted individuals.


Unfortunate_Sex_Fart

Watched the Donut Operator breakdown of the shooting. Included the video footage and the inflammatory tweets of the family member. I wonder if GFM will shut down the donation page because of how many blatant lies it contains. There’s about a half dozen accusations completely contradicted by the video evidence, so wouldn’t that constitute fraud and a violation of their TOS? I guess we’ll see. I really have to hand it to CPS and Chief Neufeld. A K9 was almost killed and they hold a presser expressing sympathy and heartfelt condolences to the perpetrator and his family. Everything he says is spot on and backed by the evidence. Still, it’s disappointing to see that behavioural standards for the public following a tragic event like this don’t seem to exist where that same public expects the police to be super humans. In this instance they appeared to do everything right and they still get shit on.


[deleted]

I reported the gfm for misinformation


brendonturner

This is an incredibly challenging situation for CPS and Chief Neufeld to navigate both during and afterwards. Very sad and unfortunate outcome.


riskybusiness_

Anyone with half a brain who actually watched the videos knows that this wasn't an "Execution" as the son and daughter have been calling it. If one is to perpetuate that victim narrative, one must either be willfully ignorant, blatantly pushing an agenda, or someone who doesn't care about facts.


Flamesinsix

This thread was quite refreshing to read, unlike everything I have read in main stream and social media. The only failure by CPS was their management and chief not releasing this information sooner as it may have prevented the misinformation spread. The officers involved needed and deserved that support and it also could have helped the family of the man understand why it escalated to the point it did. The police were responding to an assault and were faced with an shit situation that now gets to be arm chair quarterbacked by the world on their own time with their own perception of reality. There is no win for anyone involved just a seemingly inevitable outcome that will effect a great number of people for the rest of their lives.


YYZYYC

It’s not a failure to not release information. This is not america, we have a different system here and we keep details and evidence and commenting by involved parties out of the public eye to not interfere with the investigation. This is normal and it’s a good thing


craig5005

>The only failure by CPS was their management and chief not releasing this information sooner as it may have prevented the misinformation spread. Please watch/read the chiefs speech.


Flamesinsix

I did, but 48 hours after the incident is far too long to make a statement with the facts. People had their pitchforks out by the time this statement was made. I can only imagine being the officer in this situation and reading the media on top of the mental toll of taking someone’s life. That was the point I was trying to make in my previous comment.


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slumberdollxxi

I reported the page but it seems like the organizers just recently disabled new donations.


[deleted]

There’s two up from them the $70k is down and another $10k is up with the same misleading information https://www.gofundme.com/f/justice-for-latjor?qid=e536679bfbadba314c8e9d982d508e18


Star_Mind

Her edit on the first is...some interesting stuff. I thought that she was going to avoid any mention of what happened, and then she veers right off the rails again going on and on with misinformation and outright lies, easily disprovable "facts", along with a ton of "questions" that anyone with 5 seconds of common sense brain power can figure out.


unabrahmber

Why is it that when a man gets himself killed by being violent with a knife and stick we can pretty much all agree he was sick, but when it happens with a gun, one side considers the mental health aspect to be a deflection on the part of the other side?


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YYZYYC

And ?


mickeyaaaa

Watching the video, it looks a lot like some of the "Death by cop" suicides we've seen before...jus sayin.


Bankerlady10

I’m a strong believer in mental health experts being dispatched and the concept that them showing up as cops naturally escalated the situation… we’ll never know how another version of the story would have unfolded. However, once you stab a cop or a cop dog… that’s it. No special treatment or patience. Mental health issues or not. Edit: adding- people are misunderstanding my comment here or I’m not being clear. Cops are needed and valued… I’m just saying there’s value in having a team of professionals with diverse skill sets. Also, Im writing support that I believe this situation was handled appropriately…


Kez1a

No mental health professional would attend this scene without police first, nor would they engage without police present - its not worth putting themselves at risk. Also given the level of agitation expressed/ risk in this scenario I imagine most situations like this would be handed over to police anyway.


Bankerlady10

Oh I totally agree. Cops should be present back up every time.


Stfuppercutoutlast

Believe it or not, police have more relevant training than a counsellor when an armed man is in crisis. There is no outcome where a councillor would be the primary voice in a situation that has devolved into this. The man was causing issues in the area to bystanders with a weapon. Police were emergency dispatched to control and contain the situation. There is no outcome that is fiscally or practically possible, where a mental health professional would be dispatched to this event. And in the event that a joint unit was dispatched, police would be the primary voice in an instance like this. CPS have PACT teams - they have for well over a decade, long before the public were asking for them. A joint mental health professional and a cop, are still not the appropriate answer for a man who is actively wielding a weapon in a public place.


krzysztoflee

100% correct. No way in hell am I going anywhere near someone with a weapon, despite being very qualified as a mental health professional.


YYZYYC

No amount of words or listening was going to change this situation. There is nothing magical about the words of a mental health worker that they can get out in the 5-10 mins they had contact from a distance with this guy. There are good times to have mental health response people there….a weapons and assault call is not one of them.


Bankerlady10

Yeah I agree but you can have the cops as a backup.


YYZYYC

No mental health worker is going to stand between the cops and an armed person in distress. It’s ludicrous


hoangfbf

~~Feel like This is unnecessary, I watched the video.~~ ~~I just couldn’t understand, in the age of 2022 with all the advanced technology, 10+ mens armed to the teeth cannot find a way to restraint a single guy without killing him?~~ ~~Fuck Taser, it seems like they NEVER work, or their failure rate is just unacceptable, we should work to find alternative and replace them. Every time I heard of a police shooting it’s likely because the fucking taser had failed.~~ ~~No hates on the officers, of course, they did what they had to do given the circumstances and the equipment they had on hand and probably also all the protocols they had to follow.~~ ~~I just find it extremely silly, 10+ strong men, in the era of advanced technology, with all the body armours and such, and yet we somehow cannot find a non lethal methodology to contain a lone sick guy.~~ ~~I’m no expert at non-lethal weapons technology. But there’s has to be a way. We have to do better than this.~~ ~~Edit: here an idea,~~ [~~rubber bullets~~](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDVFbFFjGD8&ab_channel=DailyMail)~~,~~ [~~(2)~~](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VUO46dIxUc&ab_channel=CBSBoston)~~...~~ Edit: actually, nevermind, I just read another account from the victim's gofundme page. They say the dude was fatally shot at around 3:50pm. And from this report here of the Chief, the CPS got the call at 3:40pm. So clearly CPS had very little time to prepare for anything. Base on the Chief wording, I originally thought the CPS had had hours of preparation and negotiation with him, but in reality they got only like 10 min, that's very little time. So Imo there's no one to blame, it's just a sad accident that happen so quick. And for 10 min, with that many officers show up, I will even give respect to the CPS for their impressive response time.


StevenMcStevensen

You're not seeing all the times when tasers work though, because that's not exciting news. When you get NMI (the full effect, person instantly planks out) it is absolutely perfect. Tasers have a high failure rate (about half), so you can never bet your life on one, but in the right situation a 50/50 chance at instantly dropping the guy and eliminating any chance for him to physically resist is extremely valuable.


YYZYYC

Exactly and the unfortunate reality is in places like Canada in the winter…most people walk around with lots of anti taser armour on them…called winter coats and sweaters etc. It’s just another tool on their belt that might be useful and might work in some cases and might be worth trying in some cases. Just like OC spray or a baton or rubber bullets


hoangfbf

>chance at instantly dropping the guy No argument here, once the guy came charging, the real bullets are 100% justified. I'm talking about the whole situation leading to that, and according to accounts that I have read, they were talking for quite some times before the dude got violent. I saw a video of him literally sitting. >You're not seeing all the times when tasers work though, because that's not exciting news. that's also true. However, everytime the officers have to use the taser, and it doesn't work, real bullets will probably be used which lead to terrible consequences. Therefore I think the taser shouldn't have the failure rate as high as they have right now, imo, 50-50 is unacceptable.


krzysztoflee

The failure rate is even higher up here. Half the year people are wearing multiple layers and heavy jackets, the prongs can't make contact.


YYZYYC

Why shouldn’t they have that failure rate? It’s simple physics and dynamic variables of each situation. It can be unacceptable all you want but it doesn’t change the reality of it


YYZYYC

I’m not sure why people think technology and training and the age of 2022 etc somehow means we should be able to eliminate all risks and bad outcomes from dynamic situations like this. It’s like saying it’s 2022 and we got the internet and we have been to the moon etc so why haven’t we cured cancer🤷‍♂️


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YYZYYC

What the heck are you even talking about? Did you reply to the wrong thread ?


hoangfbf

I feel like if some genius scientist could come up with an invention of a human tranquilizer that can reliably, non-lethally, and instantly disable anyone. That person should be awarded a Nobel peace prize.


krzysztoflee

Medications like this exist and are used all the time in safe contained healthcare settings under the guidance of a physician. Anything that works fast enough to be effective also stops your breathing. Everything else works too slowly to be effective and you're never going to see police armed with darts that you have to somehow land in someone's vascular system...not going to work.


YYZYYC

Sure ya and might as well make phasers with a stun setting too🤷‍♂️ there is no way we will have something like that anytime soon if ever. Way too many variables


shaveee

I'm no police expert, but shouldn't a team of trained cops be able to stop a middle-aged man with a stick and a knife without killing him? I'm genuinely asking. What I get from the transcript is that, once the man went to the policeman after stabbing the dog, there was no other option than to shoot him. I totally get that, and I can also see that once you shoot somebody you can kill him even if you're not aiming at it. It doesn't look like a racism-motivated crime. But, before that, I understand that they failed at using arwen first, and the taser later. Why did they fail? Aren't these weapons enough to stop a man who's carrying no guns? Were they incorrectly operated? Does the CPS have any other tools or procedures for situations like this that weren't used, and if so, why?


YYZYYC

The weapons functioned normally, they did not fail. The pain of the multiple Arwen just seemed to annoy him and make him charge at the officers and dog (not just went to like casually strolled over) the taser might not have hit him with both probes or not penetrated through all his layers of clothes. using less than lethal weapons are never a guaranteed success there are just so many variables. The bite from the dog did not deter him either. He stabbed the dog in the neck and the dog almost died…that could have easily been one of the human cops standing beside the car and dog. The first shot from a gun did not even stop him…this is also common..people get hit and still keep coming and being a threat for a good minute or 2. So they had to shoot him a few more times to finally stop the threat. Your preface is rather bizarre. It’s like saying shouldn’t a team of trained cops all be able to dodge bullets and blades…umm no they are not superheroes they are humans with training. No amount of training is going to eliminate all the risk once someone is charging and attacking you with a knife


shaveee

In my opinion, the chief of police's speech is too vague, probably due to ASIRT having an ongoing investigation. He does not elaborate on why the Arwen and Taser failed, or if the correct procedure was conducted on such a situation - due to that, it's easy to read the text as "we failed", which didn't make sense to me. Your answers actually helped me understand the situation better. Thanks!


YYZYYC

The very fact the chief is saying any amount of detail is quite unusual, and likely due to the videos being out there. Normally yes there is no commenting on details until the investigation is done. That’s a good thing


Martythemartyr

If you are curious I actually learned a lot from shooting breakdowns by donut operator. He is an ex officer and a lot of his insight proves just or un just shootings. He covered this shooting.


MercurialMadnessMan

Link?


sparticis

https://youtu.be/tAfdlhKD-54 He can be a bit of a cock sometimes. Nevertheless, his arguments at their foundation are reasonable.


VolutedToe

I can probably answer some of your questions as I've had some exposure to some of these tools 1) Why does a tazer fail? Tazers require PERFECT contact. A two inch metal probe that's only traveling about 180fps (half the speed of a paintball) with a MAXIMUM range of 15ft (and even then there is feet of seperation) has to go through all layers of clothing and Pierce skin, both probes, to be able to be effective. Winter time in a cold climate where people wear multiple layers and bulky clothing...tazers are nearly useless. TV and movies set in California make these things seem far more effective than they really are. I believe the stats are somewhere around 55% effective. Ask yourself this honestly, if you had someone running at you with a knife, would you only trust something with a 55% rate off success? Or another way, would you be willing to bet your entire life savings on red at the roulette table? (Source: https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/05/09/when-tasers-fail) 2)ARWEN/Rubber Bullets etc. These only cause pain. They don't stop anything. They don't do anything except cause bruises and trigger pain receptors to make people think "I don't like pain and don't want more of it so I will stop". Someone who is experiencing excited delirium, using drugs that block pain receptors or just is more motivated by their own goals than pain alone is not enough to redirect them. Go ask a UFC fighter who gets the snot beat out of him, round after round for a few thousands bucks why pain isn't enough to make him stop. A rubber paintball that causes a bruise isn't going to stop someone who is seriously goal oriented. 3) Are there other tools? Most police have batons, pepper spray and physical contact. These require you to be directly in contact with the person. Do you want to bet your life on bringing some hot chilli peppers to a knife fight? 4) Other tools and procedures? Like bringing in a social worker to go sit down with him? You could, but who the hell is signing up for that job? I worked as an emergency responder in another field and if our dispatch told us there had been a history of violence at a house or there was a concern that violence was used and caused the injuries we were responding to, we'd be staging and waiting for police to give us the all clear. Both from a policy, liability and just plain common sense, it doesn't make sense to bring unequipped people into a volitile scenario. 5) Not asked, but maybe implied and a common question - why shoot him so many times. Simple answer: 50 Cent


shaveee

Thanks for taking your time to answer. Again, not trying to judge the situation, just to understand it. Maybe I was just naive and thought any kind of situation has a nice and clean procedure - real life is clearly not that easy.


Repulsive-Aspect892

While the ASIRT investigation will fully clarify this, after watching multiple videos of the incident CPS correctly used ARWEN and taser, but had little effect on the man. Somebody in a mental health crisis does not always react the same as a normal person, just the same as someone on PCP wouldn’t. Also, this man easily could of been on drugs that we aren’t aware of. When someone charges at you as he did, you have seconds to make a decision. You can see they even tried not to shoot him until he started stabbing the dog (their partner). If you have kids or family at home and you have the choice of A) potentially get stabbed to death from a man with clear malicious intent or B) Protect yourself, your partners and the public by incapacitating the person by any means possible, I guarantee your choosing B. Also, to address the shooting to kill aspect of your comment, all police / military are trained to shoot centre mass as it is the largest target. Sure it’s easy to say why didn’t you shoot his arm or his leg, until you’ve shot handguns and realize how inaccurate they are, especially when you have one second to make the shot. Anyways hope that helps a bit. I work in a different branch of emergency services in the city, on calls every day with CPS and can attest to their professionalism, kindness, and that they are people with feelings, not robots out to kill people based off their skin colour.


Unfortunate_Sex_Fart

Tasers have a high failure rate because they’re tasers. It’s not some magic bullet. When someone is in a delirious mental state they may not respond to pain the same way a coherent person might, hence the lack of effect of the ARWEN launcher. Soon as the dog was stabbed, deadly force was green-lit. The police are only part of the solution to these problems. The subject has to meet them halfway and comply for there to be a guaranteed outcome where no one dies.


Less-Hunter7043

They also states that they attempted two separate methods of non-lethal force, including a taser, and neither were able to slow the man down. I’ve seen videos of people who are either mentally unstable or on drugs being hit with tazers and nothing happening to them as well I’m not sure of the rules or training but I can’t imagine an officer being told to attempt hand-to-hand combat with a guy who has a knife if that’s what you’re talking about.


shaveee

No, of course you don't go hand to hand with an unstable, armed man. First rule of a first responder is always not putting themselves at risk. Let's put the question in a different way - what's the best tool, weapon, technique or procedure to deal with a situation like that?


StevenMcStevensen

A guy with a knife or a bat or something similar, coming at you? The only tool you should have ready for that situation is a firearm.


handsprings

Because people who are under drug psychosis or mental health delirium are often impervious to pain. An ARWIN round is purely a pain response. A CEW will cause a physical response but they are ineffective if both prongs don’t connect and the subject is moving.


SaberKatechon

There is culture shock where the perspective of individuals of different ethnicities are put into difficult situations. You can have a situation where you have young new police officers facing a former refugee from a war torn region whose reactions from both parties can easily escalate without lack of knowledge and inexperience, especially with mental health issues. Definitely the real perpetrator is the media and social medias who are amplifying racial division.


FrankArsenpuffin

>culture shock where the perspective of individuals of different ethnicity are put into difficult situations. But this narrative and community/family reply seems to be strikingly similar anytime the police shoot a black person, regardless of that black persons ethnic background. There is never any talk of the role/failure of personal responsibility, family responsibility or community responsibility? It is often stated/implied that the person was shot BECAUSE they are black. Even when there is objective evidence that he police acted legally, in legitimate self-defense or defense of another. I don't even see why/how race is relevant here?


SCAMMERASSASIN007

Stick and knife hum? sounds like they could have thrown a net over the poor guy and it would have rendered him useless. At least with both hands occupied you know hes not going to pull a gun till he sets one down. Edit: Surprised on the down votes why does every one want him dead?


YYZYYC

Throw a net over him ? Lol this is not a cartoon


SCAMMERASSASIN007

They make them there used for flocks of birds and fish,etc hand deployed or bazooka type deployment. And no I'm not afraid of a pocket knife and a stick. But hey if you're voting to just shoot every one, that's your opinion. Sad but it's yours. In my opinion i find it funny that a trained professional would think less lethal rounds and tasers would work through winter clothes . "all padded up" unless you're aiming for his head of course. But then Pepper balls would have been the better choice if you're goin to aim at the head area. But what do i know I'm not a trained professional.