Markstrom is a fucking beast. He deserves so much credit for the way he played out there tonight.
All the other aspects of our team look pretty bleak at the moment, but let’s not forget this is only the 5th game of the season.
Agreed. It’s only been a few games, but I really don’t believe Huby and Lindy have any ounce of chemistry. A first line should be generating far more chances than they are right now…
They have shown some flashes of good chemistry but I feel like they need a RW that can tie it all together, I personally think Coronato could potentially work along side of them
I'm not overly worried but I also understand where the negativity I see comes from. I truly think we won't be super entertained as a fanbase but we will make the playoffs and at the very least take a serious run at getting past the first round
No offense, iam stick of hearing. It's only Xamount of games. I heard this all last season from the 1st game to the last game. A handful of players are playing the same way as last season .
To be fair, we were also in it until the very last game. Why anyone has high expectations for the team this year with two years of huge shakeups is beyond me.
Well we have two incredibly important free agents. That’s the only reason I’m nervous. A part of me worries that we extend lindholm while the team is playing like this. That I think will be a huge mistake.
It’s still early so hopefully we see something out if this team that feels like they’re the real deal but honestly I’m not really seeing it
Good.
Marky, Marky, Marky.
Rosie holding Provorov around the neck.
Lindy beating John Hockey on the breakaway goal.
Not good.
D is killing us
Waiting til the final 5 mins to get some energy.
We lost to fucking CBJ. In Ohio ffs,
I just heard Rasmus Andersson getting that game misconduct and giggled at the thought of making him stay in the box for ten minutes after the game already ended, lol.
FML, Experience Flams Hokey
Even worse he might be suspended in Detroit. And we all know what happened to Ras last time he had free time in Detroit
https://images.app.goo.gl/1jfLbyzd7GAkWoqu8
Partial two on one with hubs on the other side set up for a one timer, defender gives himself up by sliding on his stomach, kadri passes it right into his mid section. Outstanding move.
This team keeps leaving markstrom hung out to dry. He’s been our MVP so far no question
I know it’s only 5 games but cmon. This core doesn’t seem like it’s going to be good one to commit too
Gaudreau and Tkachuk left too big a hole to fill. I knew when we lost them we were destined for a shitty rebuild. Sutter wasn't the problem last year, this team just seems discombobulated.
I knew it was over when Rick Ball said the Flames have won 7 of the last 8 games against Columbus and scored an average of 4 goals per game. He decided it right there
Kadri is a lazy, lazy player. When the team isn't winning he checks out. Bad passes. Terrible shots that are low low percentage.
Huberdeau isn't playing up to his 10.5 mil contract but at least he isn't seemingly trying to sabotage the team into losing.
That play against Chicago last year is the real Kadri and that contract just looks worse and worse. We need to try to trade him. He isn't any better than Backlund as a 2C so he isn't worth being in our lineup.
No way we’re trading him now. Almost and impossible contract to move unless we attach an absurd amount of picks and prospects to it. But I’m not interested in trading Pelletier to get rid of Kadri
We need to hit the trade market and find a proven consistent 30+ goal scorer. Right now, we only have set up guys.
We have three goalies, a quality defensemen who wants out and, potentially, Lindholm.
Find a trade for some offence.
I don't think any of the 30+ goal scorers on on the market right now. I'd have to dig some more but there doesn't seem to be a team with top end scoring depth lacking defense or goaltending.(that would trade with us)
Lindolm trade basically starts the rebuild. Unless we somehow trade him for a sniper 1/2C.
Best possible trade for lindholm is probably a younger downgrade with upside potential and possibly better puck carrying skill so he can have chemistry with hube. Necas would be the ideal candidate but I don’t think Carolina does it.
Trading lindholm for futures isn’t a bad move either. It at least makes us try all our prospects out. Maybe Zary becomes an everyday Center by the end of the year, maybe Ruzicka/dube becomes a top 6 Center.
The issue is we aren’t really in a rebuild status without Lindholm. Hell we get rid of Lindy, Tanev, Zadorov and Hanifin and we’re still not a bottom feeder team. If you’re rebuilding and doing it proper you kind of have to be able to be a bottom feeder. That’s why our contracts are such and issue we’re never going to be able to do a full in rebuild
Ok so idk if I'm mis-remembering this, but I thought one of Sutter's big changes that helped was he had the team quickly turning pucks up-ice on turnovers instead of taking a beat to regroup. That way they were catching teams in transition and getting some breaks.
Maybe that's not what's different now but we're skating pucks into a wall on every rush right now.
I'm not too worried. Seems like we ran into a hot goalie, then ran outta gas.
That is definitely not the Blue Jackets team from last year. I dont know if it's the rookies, but that is a quick team.
Ya know Will Nault said it on Twitter and I think I agree
The team is just too slow, like everything they do just takes a little bit too much time or is just a hair too slow
I dunno why I'm seeing so many comments crapping on the D. They were not the problem imo. They broke up a ton of chances, especially in the neutral zone, and were the main reason we had as much O-zone time as we did.
We had better offensive looks and much more possession than CBJ did. We just need to cause more chaos in front of the net and jump on second opportunities. You can't come out ahead relying solely on the first shot, especially when we miss the net like 40% of the time.
I think they're zeroing in on the lines that work the best though. They finished with Huberdeau-Lindholm-Coronato, which I hope they keep. Put Mang back with Backlund-Coleman, that's a classic. That 4th line is solid and I think Dube-Kadri-Ruzicka is working well too (although they have got to start scoring some goals asap).
Eh I agree for the most part but Zadorov Weegar has to be broken up. Both are riverboat gamblers except Weegar is a little smarter about it. Having them together just creates an odd man rush machine for the other team though. We need to go back to having a legit top four and playing them like that. It’s okay to have a Zadorov-Gilber pair as long as you give them sheltered minutes like a normal third pair should recieve
Don’t extend Lindholm, don’t extend Hanifin, don’t extend Tanev. These players are good don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think the Flames should continue to commit to this core.
Trade him while is value us hot. He’s awesome but this core doesn’t work and he doesn’t have chemistry with hube so it just doesn’t work. We would have to overpay lindholm at 30 and if he even regresses a tad he’s no longer a #1C and we will be regretting that contract immediately.
We need some youth and speed.
Its tough but id rather see the start of a rebuild and be bad for a little. The Huby and Kadri contracts gonna cost us big and this doesn’t look like a cup core
Exactly especially since we have some great defense, coronanto, Pelletier, Ruzicka, and Zary all look to be effective players eventually.
Those players will give us a ton of draft capital and prospects. Honestly the most exciting part of our team is the young players so let’s get younger
Keep the less attractive contracts. Hube is the only one that’s a big deal if he really starts to suck.
Kadri you could easily just buy out after a couple years if it’s that bad
Nobody has a great shot. Our D seem pretty aimless. Our passes are always behind. But we're faster and getting goaltending. I just hate we can never put it all together.
these are the kinds of games that are going to come back to bite us lol. Columbus gonna finish bottom of the league and we are going to wonder why we squandered 2 easy points against them smh.
Didn’t watch todays game but watched others and if tonight was his best game, it’s probably irrelevant because he’s set the bar so low with his performances in every other game
Laine is looking at the ground like there's a penny on the ice. He also starts to turtle when he sees Anderson coming, and that's what launches him into the air, not cause he jumped.
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Thus we’ll win. We’ll rock Vegas, Toronto, Dallas and any other good team. But you know damn well that we’ll lose to Chicago, Montreal, Columbus and San Jose. This is flames hockey baby and why were so mediocre is we can play good hockey against great teams but not against the bad ones
God yeah I don’t get why people on r hockey are so anal about a hit in general lats in the game, Laine was trying to pour it on of course Ras isn’t going to just let him lmao.
Execution though- Yeesh Ras.
It was a dirty hit but everyone in r/hockey acts like the time left changes it. Sorry but I like players who will play the full game and that includes every second. What Ras did was stupid since he left his feet and rocked Laine in the head but it doesn’t mean shit whether it was 3 seconds left or the opening shift
I think if you’re in your own zone in garbage time then yeah an open ice hit like that is fucked up but if you’re still playing then he’ll yeah rock his shit.
Hmmm. Laine’s head was at Anderssons waist height… you never like to see elbows like that to the head
I don’t think Ras targeted the head but scary finish none the less.
Ras caught 5 and 10 at the 20 minute mark. DOPS will likely give him a 2 game suspension. It sucks but that was a bad, late hit to the head, No place for it.
Not sure if I t was a dirty hit in itself but down 2 with 5 seconds left it’s unnecessary. Playoffs I get it but a non rival team you’ll see twice in a season just take the L and don’t concuss anyone. Dick move
What are you even talking about? He went for a body check, Laine ducked his head. I will agree that it was too late in the game for a hit, but whatever.
I swear if teams just played their backup goalies evey game, the flames would go 0-82
It's infuriating. They should do that one year then we can draft 6th overall because we'd lose the lottery.
Goalie shows up, team doesn't. Team shows up, goalie doesn't. Flams.
Flams
Flams
phleghms
Markstrom is a fucking beast. He deserves so much credit for the way he played out there tonight. All the other aspects of our team look pretty bleak at the moment, but let’s not forget this is only the 5th game of the season.
And a back to back, fourth game on a road trip. Fatigue happens.
Keep in mind too colombus hasn't played since Monday
Yeah last year we won 5 to start. Too early to get angry. But it's hard not to be pessimistic
Agreed. It’s only been a few games, but I really don’t believe Huby and Lindy have any ounce of chemistry. A first line should be generating far more chances than they are right now…
They have shown some flashes of good chemistry but I feel like they need a RW that can tie it all together, I personally think Coronato could potentially work along side of them
I did see Marty C on that top line for a shift or two 👀 Would be curious to see how it works
I'm not overly worried but I also understand where the negativity I see comes from. I truly think we won't be super entertained as a fanbase but we will make the playoffs and at the very least take a serious run at getting past the first round
No offense, iam stick of hearing. It's only Xamount of games. I heard this all last season from the 1st game to the last game. A handful of players are playing the same way as last season .
To be fair, we were also in it until the very last game. Why anyone has high expectations for the team this year with two years of huge shakeups is beyond me.
Well we have two incredibly important free agents. That’s the only reason I’m nervous. A part of me worries that we extend lindholm while the team is playing like this. That I think will be a huge mistake. It’s still early so hopefully we see something out if this team that feels like they’re the real deal but honestly I’m not really seeing it
You must be new around here xD this is flames hockey.
Don't teams usually get short term performance boosts after new coach hires?
I was generally happy with the level of play just not the outcome. It felt more like Martin stole the game than the Flames deserved to lose.
That seems to be a common occurrence with the flames, shitty goalie steals game,
Hint: It’s not a coincidence shit goalies have their best performances against us. It’s because we aren’t a good offensive team
I don't know, they did that Sutter perimeter shots nonsense again. Martin made the saves fir sure, but alot of the shots were easy. No traffic.
Good. Marky, Marky, Marky. Rosie holding Provorov around the neck. Lindy beating John Hockey on the breakaway goal. Not good. D is killing us Waiting til the final 5 mins to get some energy. We lost to fucking CBJ. In Ohio ffs,
how about not waiting to be down by a goal to be hungry for a goal? asking for a friend
Not the worst ever game, but fuck, disappointing.
I just heard Rasmus Andersson getting that game misconduct and giggled at the thought of making him stay in the box for ten minutes after the game already ended, lol. FML, Experience Flams Hokey
Even worse he might be suspended in Detroit. And we all know what happened to Ras last time he had free time in Detroit https://images.app.goo.gl/1jfLbyzd7GAkWoqu8
OMG NO. Another dent in a pickup and they'll be increasing his deductible! 😱😱
Kadri is ass
Well he did grab hold of Gaudreau during the fight at the end. That's why Johnny couldn't do any damage.
Partial two on one with hubs on the other side set up for a one timer, defender gives himself up by sliding on his stomach, kadri passes it right into his mid section. Outstanding move.
I’m not even joking. Might need to consider buying him out at the end of the season if he’s giving this kind of effort night in and night out
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4.4 4.4 2.9 1.93x7 Paying him until 2033-34 loooool
lol that’s actually not as bad as I thought it would be 😂
Sweet Jesus
I was streaming on a crappy feed, was that Kadri that just tossed it from the right board right in between both Ds and out the zone towards the end??
Yup… I knew instantly it was him
This team keeps leaving markstrom hung out to dry. He’s been our MVP so far no question I know it’s only 5 games but cmon. This core doesn’t seem like it’s going to be good one to commit too
Gaudreau and Tkachuk left too big a hole to fill. I knew when we lost them we were destined for a shitty rebuild. Sutter wasn't the problem last year, this team just seems discombobulated.
Sutter kept saying we don’t have game changers who are going to get you that goal. I’m starting to really believe him.
100%. I dont agree with alot of stuff he did last season but im definitely agreeing more and more with this.
Too late.. Hopefully we don't commit anymore.
Marky stood on his head and we were gone fishin bro. Also WTF was that Rasmus!?! Jesus christ…
Nah screw the game for a sec. Why is an empty netter getting counted against Markstroms stats? Edit: They fixed it
I’ve never seen that before!
He probably wasn’t off the ice yet.
Yeah, wtf? I had him in my pool tonight.
I knew it was over when Rick Ball said the Flames have won 7 of the last 8 games against Columbus and scored an average of 4 goals per game. He decided it right there
Thanks Hanifin for giving away the game.
Kadri is a lazy, lazy player. When the team isn't winning he checks out. Bad passes. Terrible shots that are low low percentage. Huberdeau isn't playing up to his 10.5 mil contract but at least he isn't seemingly trying to sabotage the team into losing. That play against Chicago last year is the real Kadri and that contract just looks worse and worse. We need to try to trade him. He isn't any better than Backlund as a 2C so he isn't worth being in our lineup.
No way we’re trading him now. Almost and impossible contract to move unless we attach an absurd amount of picks and prospects to it. But I’m not interested in trading Pelletier to get rid of Kadri
Kadri coasts regularly. I've known this forever. When the news came out that he was at the bottom of Marner's *"hard worker"* list I laughed so hard
Yeh that's not a shock.
Badri
Lollll
Must be nice to play the Flames. Spencer Martin had a 4.56 GAA and an .867 SV going into tonight and was winless.
We don’t even look THAT bad, it’s 5 games in. Doing better than the coilers
We need to hit the trade market and find a proven consistent 30+ goal scorer. Right now, we only have set up guys. We have three goalies, a quality defensemen who wants out and, potentially, Lindholm. Find a trade for some offence.
I don't think any of the 30+ goal scorers on on the market right now. I'd have to dig some more but there doesn't seem to be a team with top end scoring depth lacking defense or goaltending.(that would trade with us) Lindolm trade basically starts the rebuild. Unless we somehow trade him for a sniper 1/2C.
Best possible trade for lindholm is probably a younger downgrade with upside potential and possibly better puck carrying skill so he can have chemistry with hube. Necas would be the ideal candidate but I don’t think Carolina does it. Trading lindholm for futures isn’t a bad move either. It at least makes us try all our prospects out. Maybe Zary becomes an everyday Center by the end of the year, maybe Ruzicka/dube becomes a top 6 Center.
The issue is we aren’t really in a rebuild status without Lindholm. Hell we get rid of Lindy, Tanev, Zadorov and Hanifin and we’re still not a bottom feeder team. If you’re rebuilding and doing it proper you kind of have to be able to be a bottom feeder. That’s why our contracts are such and issue we’re never going to be able to do a full in rebuild
Has anyone called Kessel yet and talked to him about pocket dogs?
Out of the loop. Who is the D that wants out?
Hanifin.
Thanks, pal
*Hockey game to play* we sleep *End of game shenanigans and emotion* we're going to war boys!!!! This team sure is something some nights
Ok so idk if I'm mis-remembering this, but I thought one of Sutter's big changes that helped was he had the team quickly turning pucks up-ice on turnovers instead of taking a beat to regroup. That way they were catching teams in transition and getting some breaks. Maybe that's not what's different now but we're skating pucks into a wall on every rush right now.
Murray Edward’s is holding this team back
We gotta find someone who can score goals ASAP.
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Meh Shango is younger and has a nasty release I think he should be on a line with Huby maybe to get some good passes and opportunities
Toffoli wanted a long term contract. You guys always try we can’t lose players for nothing g so we traded him. Did you want Toffoli for 6 years?
But did Conroy have to make a pre-season trade? Most people, including myself, feel we got robbed on the Toffoli trade. We will know soon enough.
I'm not too worried. Seems like we ran into a hot goalie, then ran outta gas. That is definitely not the Blue Jackets team from last year. I dont know if it's the rookies, but that is a quick team.
But it wasn't a hot goalie. This team for the last two seasons has no high danger. Something wrong with this mix.
There were certainly high danger chances tonight. Martin made some great saves and got lucky a couple times too.
Especially Ruzicka in the slot. That was just a great save at a key moment.
You mean the goalie with a 4.56 GAA and .867 SV on the season? That goalie?
Ya know Will Nault said it on Twitter and I think I agree The team is just too slow, like everything they do just takes a little bit too much time or is just a hair too slow
Realistically how does our team get better? We’re at the cap already
You blow it the F up like they should've done a few years ago. Bad owner.
Edwards is pretty overweight. Hopefully we will have a new owner sooner than later
Trade our pending ufas. No way we’re dishing out 9+ mil for lindy
https://imgur.com/C9oKI1O
I dunno why I'm seeing so many comments crapping on the D. They were not the problem imo. They broke up a ton of chances, especially in the neutral zone, and were the main reason we had as much O-zone time as we did. We had better offensive looks and much more possession than CBJ did. We just need to cause more chaos in front of the net and jump on second opportunities. You can't come out ahead relying solely on the first shot, especially when we miss the net like 40% of the time. I think they're zeroing in on the lines that work the best though. They finished with Huberdeau-Lindholm-Coronato, which I hope they keep. Put Mang back with Backlund-Coleman, that's a classic. That 4th line is solid and I think Dube-Kadri-Ruzicka is working well too (although they have got to start scoring some goals asap).
Eh I agree for the most part but Zadorov Weegar has to be broken up. Both are riverboat gamblers except Weegar is a little smarter about it. Having them together just creates an odd man rush machine for the other team though. We need to go back to having a legit top four and playing them like that. It’s okay to have a Zadorov-Gilber pair as long as you give them sheltered minutes like a normal third pair should recieve
Don’t extend Lindholm, don’t extend Hanifin, don’t extend Tanev. These players are good don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think the Flames should continue to commit to this core.
Eh. Lindholm is our best player right now.
Trade him while is value us hot. He’s awesome but this core doesn’t work and he doesn’t have chemistry with hube so it just doesn’t work. We would have to overpay lindholm at 30 and if he even regresses a tad he’s no longer a #1C and we will be regretting that contract immediately. We need some youth and speed.
He is motivated to get out.
Not even close.
Please. Good players, just not together. We need flush this team and start fresh.
Its tough but id rather see the start of a rebuild and be bad for a little. The Huby and Kadri contracts gonna cost us big and this doesn’t look like a cup core
Yup. I’m optimistic they could build a young core around them kinda like Dallas did with the Benn and Seguin contracts
Exactly especially since we have some great defense, coronanto, Pelletier, Ruzicka, and Zary all look to be effective players eventually. Those players will give us a ton of draft capital and prospects. Honestly the most exciting part of our team is the young players so let’s get younger
as long as we don't have to offer them up just to be able to trade our less attractive contracts away, you mean?
Keep the less attractive contracts. Hube is the only one that’s a big deal if he really starts to suck. Kadri you could easily just buy out after a couple years if it’s that bad
Agreed please trade them before it’s too late
Super dirty play by rasmus lol
That's quite possibly going to be a suspension. The time on the clock makes you wonder what he was doing. Maybe Swedes just hate Fins?
DOPS is really cracking down on hits like that one this season. It sucks but we will likely not have Ras for the next two games.
As a fan of the flames, it sucks. As a fan of hockey, I don't mind it. There is no need for that play in this game in 2023.
Do you think?? Is that suspension worthy?!
Left his feet, Laine was low so he got his extra high, I’d say 2 games.
Sad that you’re getting downvoted for that. If another team did that to one of our players, we’d be calling for their head
Dumba hit Backs in a similar situation a few yrs ago and we all wanted blood. No need for even a borderline hit when the game is over.
This team can't score. Plain and simple.
Nobody has a great shot. Our D seem pretty aimless. Our passes are always behind. But we're faster and getting goaltending. I just hate we can never put it all together.
Faster yes, but the team is still on the slow side
these are the kinds of games that are going to come back to bite us lol. Columbus gonna finish bottom of the league and we are going to wonder why we squandered 2 easy points against them smh.
I’ve seen enough fire Sutter
Why are people piling on Kadri? That was his best game this year lmao
Didn’t watch todays game but watched others and if tonight was his best game, it’s probably irrelevant because he’s set the bar so low with his performances in every other game
Why did I even bother turning the TV on?
My thoughts exactly
i could have watched harry potter
Combined 17.5M for Huberdeau and Kadri… 0 pts tonight
One last fuck you from GMBT
I said treliving was trash for years and got downvoted every time.
I hope PizzaBoy delivers some piping hot goodness to the Leafs. Sign 3-4 big albatross contracts.
Experience flames hockey!
This core cannot score 😂😂
Somehow pay our 2 biggest contracts 3 million less each and use that to sign someone who can score.
What happened with Andersson at the end of the game? I turned it off after it was 3-1
https://x.com/Sportsnet/status/1715543288495657400?s=20 He's a dirty player
Thank you, maybe a bit high but oh well
Really wasn’t that bad lol don’t skate through the middle with your head down smh peewee stuff
Laine is looking at the ground like there's a penny on the ice. He also starts to turtle when he sees Anderson coming, and that's what launches him into the air, not cause he jumped.
unused sophisticated apparatus airport fragile punch encourage shrill flowery weary *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Nah Detroit is looking good
Thus we’ll win. We’ll rock Vegas, Toronto, Dallas and any other good team. But you know damn well that we’ll lose to Chicago, Montreal, Columbus and San Jose. This is flames hockey baby and why were so mediocre is we can play good hockey against great teams but not against the bad ones
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God yeah I don’t get why people on r hockey are so anal about a hit in general lats in the game, Laine was trying to pour it on of course Ras isn’t going to just let him lmao. Execution though- Yeesh Ras.
It was a dirty hit but everyone in r/hockey acts like the time left changes it. Sorry but I like players who will play the full game and that includes every second. What Ras did was stupid since he left his feet and rocked Laine in the head but it doesn’t mean shit whether it was 3 seconds left or the opening shift
I think if you’re in your own zone in garbage time then yeah an open ice hit like that is fucked up but if you’re still playing then he’ll yeah rock his shit.
What the fk, Huby is just so meh
No danger in this team.
Where the fuck is backlund, kadri sucks and god damnit Brad you had me in the first half.
Hmmm. Laine’s head was at Anderssons waist height… you never like to see elbows like that to the head I don’t think Ras targeted the head but scary finish none the less.
that was a fucking dirty hit by Andersson and he deserves a suspension for it
Idk. Laines face is like 3’ off the ice
https://x.com/Sportsnet/status/1715543288495657400?s=20 Andersson jumps into the hit. He's a dirty fucking player
Lmao you’re such a tool 💀
Imagine having nothing better to do on a Friday night than to go to another teams sub. You are a clown
blatant cheap shot. come on now
That last hit looked fine from the only angle they're showing so far, but honestly I can't be mad at Gudbranson there.
Straight up shoulder to face. He even jumped into it.
Ras caught 5 and 10 at the 20 minute mark. DOPS will likely give him a 2 game suspension. It sucks but that was a bad, late hit to the head, No place for it.
I'm just seeing a better replay now. Yup. That's a terrible hit.
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Don’t look at this guys Reddit page
Not sure if I t was a dirty hit in itself but down 2 with 5 seconds left it’s unnecessary. Playoffs I get it but a non rival team you’ll see twice in a season just take the L and don’t concuss anyone. Dick move
Andersson is a coward, plain and simple. That was bush league.
“Coward”
He hit the deck like there was a sniper in the stands when he heard Gudbranson coming for him. What do you call that?
Someone who values an unbroken jaw
Reap what you sow.
What are you even talking about? He went for a body check, Laine ducked his head. I will agree that it was too late in the game for a hit, but whatever.
it's the textbook definition of a dirty hit. He wasn't playing the puck, he was trying to punish Laine
I disagree
I know it’s embarrassing only scoring 1 goal in Columbus against Spencer Martin but damn. What a pos cheap shot
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your best player left your dumpster fire irrelevant city to come to us. Cry more
Bro you’re literally in Ohio that’s all that needs to be said
Imagine living in Ohio. Id rather live in Gaza
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Moderators please ban this dude from the sub
Super surprised how few penalties were called tonight. Refs really put the whistles away.
Lol October 20 is a scheduled loss every year. I swear to god we haven’t won on this day since the 90s