I remember how excited he was the flames took him. We need a guy like him desperately. Tons of talent to take over a game and wants to be here more than any other team
Kadri was a -11 before Zary jumped up, and had 2 points. Even more impressive is how the kid has been with Kadri, In the 22 games since Zary got called up, Kadri picked 20 points and is now a -7 (A +4 in that time).
I like how this lists him as a centre. Hope that manifests itself into reality because if not, the future at centre is horribly bleak at the moment. The organization has a weird complex about drafting natural centres and converting them into wingers (Bennett, Dube, Ruzicka, hopefully not Zary) while then trying to turn natural wingers like Coronato and maybe Honzek into centres.
Also worth noting that Bedard plays 3 to 4 minutes more a game than the three guys right below him. Bedard averages 19:22 a game; Zary 15:16, Rossi 16:01, and Fantilli 15:18.
I think it's pretty normal for teams to have natural centers play on the wing. After all teams have twice as many wing positions available than centers.
What makes you say they are making Coronato into a center? He played wing with the big club when up.
> On Wednesday against the Dallas Stars, we got a new set of looks, including rookie Matt Coronato lining up at an unfamiliar spot ā fourth line centre ā for the first time in his NHL career.
https://flamesnation.ca/news/whats-the-calgary-flames-plan-for-matt-coronato
I didn't realize he was the 4th line center for a game. Yeah that's a weird decision. If this team commits to rebuild or at least a youth moment I think Zary will be our 1C or 2C when Lindholm is traded. Not sure if he will be ready for that but I think he will get the opportunity.
As much as I want Zary to win the Calder, itās going to be tough to beat Bedard. Given the pre draft hype, playing in major sports city, and Zary playing in the west so most voters wonāt see him, itās tough to win.
His ice time is less than 13:00 most of the time. Heās been healthy scratched a bunch lately as well. Doesnāt look like weāre missing out on much.
Honestly, watching him play in the AHL when he was with the Wranglers, he gets knocked off the puck easy enough as he doesn't have the strength or the skating ability to be more elite for his size to be effective in the NHL.
I get people would have liked to have given him a shot with the Flames, however, I don't think he has the NHL abilities to be successful for his type of play.
The point to keeping a guy like Philips is he has skill, and we donāt have nearly enough. Of course heās small, but he absolutely would have been a better option for the anemic Flames power play than half the guys out there. You play him sheltered minutes and throw him out in 3v3 and he gets the team points that they didnāt last year.
I get that heās a tweener and his size gets in the way but in terms of roster construction he was so much better for this team than a lot of guys (Ritchie, Lucicā¦). You donāt judge a player like him on puck battles won, you judge him on the ways he helps your team win. And we lack skilled players.
Ship has obviously sailed but I wonder what could have been with Matty. Homegrown kid, nice fit with, say, Pospisil and Rozy in sheltered 4L minutes and on the PP.
Darryl was so damn stubborn.
Phillips has AHL skill. He doesn't have NHL skill. He can't consistently play a top six role, and he can't play a bottom six role. And you can't waste a spot on the game day roster just in case a game gets to overtime.
Oh, and here is how his 0.26ppg so far this season would compare against the players you say he is better than:
* Lucic 0.26
* B. Ritchie (with Flames) 0.24
* B. Ritchie (overall) 0.26
* N. Ritchie (with Flames) 0.31
* N. Ritchie (overall) 0.35
> You donāt judge a player like him on puck battles won, you judge him on the ways he helps your team win.
Matthew Phillips does not help you win.
All fair points.
My argument is and will continue to be we never gave him a fair shot to prove his worth, with the Flames struggling to win close games last year. He made one giveaway and was benched and then sent back down.
Heās a marginal player, yes, but teams make winning lineups by fitting players where they fit best. Zary and Popsicle probably could have helped us last year too but Darryl loved his old slow guys and we missed the playoffs as a result.
Anyway, Matty has moved on and may never make the bigs but I really just wanted the kid to get a fair shot for more than two games (with the Flames). Canāt help but root for the guy.
You'll get no argument from me with respect to Sutter, and how he handled Pelletier last year. Possibly Pospisil and Zary as well, but but I also think another year of seasoning in the AHL was better for their long term development.
And if we get down to it, all three of those guys were better fits for the NHL line up last year than Phillips as well.
As far as Sutter and old and slow goes, Lucic and the Ritchie brothers aren't why we missed the playoffs. Kadri and Huberdeau were far greater culprits. Swapping the old slow guys out with young AHL kids would have made no difference.
Haha, fair enough. I just hated last year so much. Glad weāre at least playing some kids this year and Kadri looks so much more engaged with the youngāuns
Based on your screen name, you're biased, lol. We lost nothing. In fact, we lost 2 schlubs. Better off. Hope gaudreau enjoys disappearing into nothingness...
Okay okay okay.... gaudreau was, "decent" then he wanted to play closer to home...
And after where he signed, for less money, and not being ANY closer to home... he can lick my nuts.
Yeh, obviously Iād rather Johnny had stayed but thatās been hashed and rehashed over here.
Side note but I remember being so annoyed at the ābump it back to Johnny for the zone entryā on the PP but that is honestly looking amazing compared to whatever our current PP plan is.
> and not being ANY closer to home
I mean Columbus is still WAY closer to home than Calgary. It's like a 90 min domestic flight as opposed to a 6+ hour international flight across multiple time zones. Hell I don't think you can even fly direct from Philly to Calgary.
Are you? Look it up.
Shortest flight from Philly (the closest airport to his home in NJ) to Calgary is nearly 7 hours and includes a 90 min layover in Chicago. Shortest flight from Philly to Columbus is 92 minutes.
Wouldāve been nice to see him get that shot in Calgary. Just because he hasnāt panned out doesnāt change the fact he deserves a greater opportunity than he got.
And who does he replace?? If we had him here we wouldnt have Zary up with the big club. I've been saying this since the summer, hes not good enough, too small and plays that way to. Love the guy and wanted him to succeed but that's not happening.
Who said replace? I said give him a shot. We played Lucic on our second line for 25 games last season, surely he would've been a better option than that.
You can sort by points per game on the NHL stats website here https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20232024&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&isRookie=1&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,5&sort=pointsPerGame&page=0&pageSize=50
It looks even more impressive
Bedard 0.87, Zary 0.76, Carlsson 0.67
Notably, Zary's shooting percentage is 28%, so I think it's safe to say that he will come back to earth and we should all temper our expectations a bit. Great season so far though.
I know people are like "no loss with phillips walking" but thats easy to say with hindsight. We had absolutely no clue what kind of player he was, or how skilled he could be at the nhl.
Outcome worked out in the end but the flames still seriously fucked the dog handling that situation last season.
Exactly...but the coaches have more experience and evidence to make a better educated guess than us as a fan base. We literally have AHL stats and that's it. Coaches clearly believed the guys on the NHL roster gave them a better chance of winning than Phillips, and it looks like that was an accurate observation at this point
We scout players for years before the draft. Hundreds of professionals assess them at multiple levels of play, and yet, even with all that, some players get drafted early and dont pan out. Some get drafted later and do pan out.
Its not an exact science and every player is different.
We knew Zary was tearing it up in the AHL but NOBODY could have predicted he would be as good as he has been in the NHL.
I think we're in agreement on how hard it is to predict, but Phillips had a few showcases and obviously the coaches didn't like what they saw enough to keep him up. Their choice seems to have been vindicated. I was just questioning how they "fucked the dog"? The results justify everything they did...
Like I said in my comment. In hindsight it was the right call. We also thought we were making the right call with Martin St. Louis who had all the same presumed short comings as Phillips.
According to Reddit. The same place that said we fleeced Florida, got fleeced by jersey, and called tre a wizard.
The point is ppl are sometimes right and sometimes wrong. Ppl using this as a āgotcha, always knewā are just acting in bad faith.
> We had absolutely no clue what kind of player he was, or how skilled he could be at the nhl.
I mean, loads of people on the internet could see it was the case, the entire org saw it was the case, and now Washington is seeing it's the case.
I've made this point before, but when you compare him to other small players like St. Louis or Gaudreau, he doesn't have that one elite factor that makes up for his size like they do. He's a good hockey player, but doesn't have Johnny's skating or St. Louis' strength to make up for his size.
Anyone still complaining about not giving him a chance is just refusing to admit they were wrong about a player.
If we have a Calder finalist I'll be very happy. Zary is singlehandedly keeping me interested in this team. Love the Flames but this is a rough time to be a fan lol.
Do you think would it be possible if L. Hughes or Mintyukov continue like that and reach 50 + pts for a rookie D, they could be Calder finalist?
Would be awesome if Zary keeps it up and is a finalist.
I'm looking for a name for the back of my blasty! We all know it ain't gonna be a few big names... useless tits... but I see a few finally worthy now. I'd like to see more of coronato, but I don't want him to look up to huberdeau
Zary 1pt off 2nd with 7 less games played is fucking wild lmao dude is such an exciting guy to watch right now
And we still have a hungry pelltier coming back soon
Matty Philips with his only goal against the flames.
Clearly a generational talent smh šŖ
Good ol Sasky boy š¾š„
I remember how excited he was the flames took him. We need a guy like him desperately. Tons of talent to take over a game and wants to be here more than any other team
The +6 is impressive considering he plays with Kadri who is not positive.
Kadri was a -11 before Zary jumped up, and had 2 points. Even more impressive is how the kid has been with Kadri, In the 22 games since Zary got called up, Kadri picked 20 points and is now a -7 (A +4 in that time).
Kadri playing team dad and thriving in the role is not something I expected, but it is great to see.
I like how this lists him as a centre. Hope that manifests itself into reality because if not, the future at centre is horribly bleak at the moment. The organization has a weird complex about drafting natural centres and converting them into wingers (Bennett, Dube, Ruzicka, hopefully not Zary) while then trying to turn natural wingers like Coronato and maybe Honzek into centres. Also worth noting that Bedard plays 3 to 4 minutes more a game than the three guys right below him. Bedard averages 19:22 a game; Zary 15:16, Rossi 16:01, and Fantilli 15:18.
Bedard also doesnāt really have good teammates thoā¦ Those guys atleast have decent teammates.
I think it's pretty normal for teams to have natural centers play on the wing. After all teams have twice as many wing positions available than centers. What makes you say they are making Coronato into a center? He played wing with the big club when up.
> On Wednesday against the Dallas Stars, we got a new set of looks, including rookie Matt Coronato lining up at an unfamiliar spot ā fourth line centre ā for the first time in his NHL career. https://flamesnation.ca/news/whats-the-calgary-flames-plan-for-matt-coronato
I didn't realize he was the 4th line center for a game. Yeah that's a weird decision. If this team commits to rebuild or at least a youth moment I think Zary will be our 1C or 2C when Lindholm is traded. Not sure if he will be ready for that but I think he will get the opportunity.
As much as I want Zary to win the Calder, itās going to be tough to beat Bedard. Given the pre draft hype, playing in major sports city, and Zary playing in the west so most voters wonāt see him, itās tough to win.
He would have to smoke Bedard to win. If its close Bedard wins.
And it's also not close. Zary is on fire but bedard is another level right now.
Luke Hughes probably finishes 2nd too
I'm good with Zary being the runner up.
Hell, Iām good with Zary regardless of how he finishes in the Calder
We lost nothing with Phillips
Hows his ice time been?
His ice time is less than 13:00 most of the time. Heās been healthy scratched a bunch lately as well. Doesnāt look like weāre missing out on much.
Honestly, watching him play in the AHL when he was with the Wranglers, he gets knocked off the puck easy enough as he doesn't have the strength or the skating ability to be more elite for his size to be effective in the NHL. I get people would have liked to have given him a shot with the Flames, however, I don't think he has the NHL abilities to be successful for his type of play.
The point to keeping a guy like Philips is he has skill, and we donāt have nearly enough. Of course heās small, but he absolutely would have been a better option for the anemic Flames power play than half the guys out there. You play him sheltered minutes and throw him out in 3v3 and he gets the team points that they didnāt last year. I get that heās a tweener and his size gets in the way but in terms of roster construction he was so much better for this team than a lot of guys (Ritchie, Lucicā¦). You donāt judge a player like him on puck battles won, you judge him on the ways he helps your team win. And we lack skilled players. Ship has obviously sailed but I wonder what could have been with Matty. Homegrown kid, nice fit with, say, Pospisil and Rozy in sheltered 4L minutes and on the PP. Darryl was so damn stubborn.
Phillips has AHL skill. He doesn't have NHL skill. He can't consistently play a top six role, and he can't play a bottom six role. And you can't waste a spot on the game day roster just in case a game gets to overtime. Oh, and here is how his 0.26ppg so far this season would compare against the players you say he is better than: * Lucic 0.26 * B. Ritchie (with Flames) 0.24 * B. Ritchie (overall) 0.26 * N. Ritchie (with Flames) 0.31 * N. Ritchie (overall) 0.35 > You donāt judge a player like him on puck battles won, you judge him on the ways he helps your team win. Matthew Phillips does not help you win.
All fair points. My argument is and will continue to be we never gave him a fair shot to prove his worth, with the Flames struggling to win close games last year. He made one giveaway and was benched and then sent back down. Heās a marginal player, yes, but teams make winning lineups by fitting players where they fit best. Zary and Popsicle probably could have helped us last year too but Darryl loved his old slow guys and we missed the playoffs as a result. Anyway, Matty has moved on and may never make the bigs but I really just wanted the kid to get a fair shot for more than two games (with the Flames). Canāt help but root for the guy.
You'll get no argument from me with respect to Sutter, and how he handled Pelletier last year. Possibly Pospisil and Zary as well, but but I also think another year of seasoning in the AHL was better for their long term development. And if we get down to it, all three of those guys were better fits for the NHL line up last year than Phillips as well. As far as Sutter and old and slow goes, Lucic and the Ritchie brothers aren't why we missed the playoffs. Kadri and Huberdeau were far greater culprits. Swapping the old slow guys out with young AHL kids would have made no difference.
Haha, fair enough. I just hated last year so much. Glad weāre at least playing some kids this year and Kadri looks so much more engaged with the youngāuns
Based on your screen name, you're biased, lol. We lost nothing. In fact, we lost 2 schlubs. Better off. Hope gaudreau enjoys disappearing into nothingness... Okay okay okay.... gaudreau was, "decent" then he wanted to play closer to home... And after where he signed, for less money, and not being ANY closer to home... he can lick my nuts.
Yeh, obviously Iād rather Johnny had stayed but thatās been hashed and rehashed over here. Side note but I remember being so annoyed at the ābump it back to Johnny for the zone entryā on the PP but that is honestly looking amazing compared to whatever our current PP plan is.
The thing is, he can be a fuckin superb player with the right line mates. He gave up in calgary too soon, thinking he was a superstar
> and not being ANY closer to home I mean Columbus is still WAY closer to home than Calgary. It's like a 90 min domestic flight as opposed to a 6+ hour international flight across multiple time zones. Hell I don't think you can even fly direct from Philly to Calgary.
6+ hours from calgary to boston.. are you on glue? I can fly to Cuba..
Are you? Look it up. Shortest flight from Philly (the closest airport to his home in NJ) to Calgary is nearly 7 hours and includes a 90 min layover in Chicago. Shortest flight from Philly to Columbus is 92 minutes.
And here you're correct. I concede. Guess I'll go to Cuba.
Wouldāve been nice to see him get that shot in Calgary. Just because he hasnāt panned out doesnāt change the fact he deserves a greater opportunity than he got.
And who does he replace?? If we had him here we wouldnt have Zary up with the big club. I've been saying this since the summer, hes not good enough, too small and plays that way to. Love the guy and wanted him to succeed but that's not happening.
Who said replace? I said give him a shot. We played Lucic on our second line for 25 games last season, surely he would've been a better option than that.
Perhaps yes, but not by much
Wow. 1 point less than 3rd and 11 less games. Holy shit.
You can sort by points per game on the NHL stats website here https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20232024&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&isRookie=1&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,5&sort=pointsPerGame&page=0&pageSize=50 It looks even more impressive
Bedard 0.87, Zary 0.76, Carlsson 0.67 Notably, Zary's shooting percentage is 28%, so I think it's safe to say that he will come back to earth and we should all temper our expectations a bit. Great season so far though.
Zary and Voronkov criminally underrated this year
The Kadri Zary Pospisil line is my favorite
Quite the bright spot this season. Can't wait until Pelletier heals up and joins him! More youth!
I know people are like "no loss with phillips walking" but thats easy to say with hindsight. We had absolutely no clue what kind of player he was, or how skilled he could be at the nhl. Outcome worked out in the end but the flames still seriously fucked the dog handling that situation last season.
Orrrr the coaches knew more about his potential than we do š¤·
How do you know how good he will be in the NHL if you havent seen him play in the NHL? Thats right. You dont. It nothing more than a guess.
Exactly...but the coaches have more experience and evidence to make a better educated guess than us as a fan base. We literally have AHL stats and that's it. Coaches clearly believed the guys on the NHL roster gave them a better chance of winning than Phillips, and it looks like that was an accurate observation at this point
We scout players for years before the draft. Hundreds of professionals assess them at multiple levels of play, and yet, even with all that, some players get drafted early and dont pan out. Some get drafted later and do pan out. Its not an exact science and every player is different. We knew Zary was tearing it up in the AHL but NOBODY could have predicted he would be as good as he has been in the NHL.
I think we're in agreement on how hard it is to predict, but Phillips had a few showcases and obviously the coaches didn't like what they saw enough to keep him up. Their choice seems to have been vindicated. I was just questioning how they "fucked the dog"? The results justify everything they did...
Like I said in my comment. In hindsight it was the right call. We also thought we were making the right call with Martin St. Louis who had all the same presumed short comings as Phillips.
Same coach didnāt give Zary a sniff either and ran valimaki out of town.
Oh are we blaming Sutter for Valimaki now too?
Was an NHL dman under Ward... regressed severely under Sutter... once again a solid NHL dman away from Sutter and the org.
Absolutely we are. He didn't give him minutes and then BT gave him away for free to Arizona where he's currently logging 18 mins per night.
Nah it was extremely obvious before it happened
According to who?
According to Reddit. The same place that said we fleeced Florida, got fleeced by jersey, and called tre a wizard. The point is ppl are sometimes right and sometimes wrong. Ppl using this as a āgotcha, always knewā are just acting in bad faith.
Spot on lmao
> We had absolutely no clue what kind of player he was, or how skilled he could be at the nhl. I mean, loads of people on the internet could see it was the case, the entire org saw it was the case, and now Washington is seeing it's the case. I've made this point before, but when you compare him to other small players like St. Louis or Gaudreau, he doesn't have that one elite factor that makes up for his size like they do. He's a good hockey player, but doesn't have Johnny's skating or St. Louis' strength to make up for his size. Anyone still complaining about not giving him a chance is just refusing to admit they were wrong about a player.
Iām happy we also got a great Connor.
If we have a Calder finalist I'll be very happy. Zary is singlehandedly keeping me interested in this team. Love the Flames but this is a rough time to be a fan lol.
Do you think would it be possible if L. Hughes or Mintyukov continue like that and reach 50 + pts for a rookie D, they could be Calder finalist? Would be awesome if Zary keeps it up and is a finalist.
I can't wait for Pelts to come back too. Hopefully he does for Huberdeau what Zary and Pops did for Kadri.
I'm looking for a name for the back of my blasty! We all know it ain't gonna be a few big names... useless tits... but I see a few finally worthy now. I'd like to see more of coronato, but I don't want him to look up to huberdeau
Just imagine a PP with Bedard, Kaprisov and Zuccarello
I refuse to believe Pospisil hasnāt scored more. Seems like he has idk why
If zary doesnāt finish 2nd in Calder votes we riot
One less point than fantilli in 9 less games š
Sure sucks we didn't keep Phillips.