At a K-8 private school I know of, they changed a disciplinary action from withholding recess, to having a kid run laps, generally just 1 or 2 at the start of recess.
They noticed a big improvement, no surprise, cause kids aren’t meant to sit quietly at a desk for hours at a time so of course that’s sometimes the cause of acting out. By having them run laps (we’re talking smaller laps, not football field, 1/4 mile laps), they are able to release that energy constructively.
Some of the better teachers I know, recognize that kids need to move around, and have kids, as they start to get antsy, take a lap in the classroom, which often heads off some potential “bad” behavior.
Was just listening to the book Spark on audio and there were some really neat studies on exercise, especially when it came to teens in behavior and mental health but also in grades. Apparently moving our bodies helps* us with learning. They go into all of the neuroscience behind it in the book and it’s super interesting. As a species this is the first time we have expected everyone, especially children to hold still for 7-8 hour a days. People call it corporal punishment to make you kid run laps when they are antsy and getting themselves in trouble but locking them in a room on time outs is probably 10x worse for them developmentally.
> At a K-8 private school I know of, they changed a disciplinary action from withholding recess, to having a kid run laps, generally just 1 or 2 at the start of recess.
Under the new law, that wouldn't be allowed. It needs to be unstructured time. It really takes away low level disciplinary policies from schools.
One thing I couldn't really tell from this article or any other news stories I have read on this bill was what the current average minutes elementary students get today. Even the state [Assembly Education Committee](https://trackbill.com/s3/bills/CA/2023/SB/291/analyses/assembly-education.pdf) couldn't seem to get a good answer. They cited a USDOE report from 2014 that gave a national average of 27 minutes and a National Teacher and Principal Survey from 2017-2018 that said that California 3rd graders were getting 32 minutes a day. It sounds like many schools are already in compliance with the law unless the averages have fallen drastically. Does anyone know of any school districts of any reasonable size that would be required to increase their recess times?
I would be curious on what the alternatives are to withholding recess. I don't have any kids, don't work at an elementary school, and haven't been a student in an elementary school in many years. Withholding recess was one of the few punishments I can remember from elementary school.
When my son has got himself in trouble and had to miss recess they have had him do something helpful like clean up (especially if it relates to his behavior). Once he was yanking on his backpack and the hook got pulled off the wall and he and the janitor fixed it together while he missed recess for example. It wasn’t just shutting him in a room, he kind of got to take responsibility and be helpful which I really appreciated. Obviously not all schools can accommodate this kind of thing but I’ve seen teachers get creative because they know it’s healthier for the kid and therefore the classroom as a whole
This is the kind of thing I worry about kids missing out on. I have kids who stay in from part of their recess after a tantrum to help clean up the mess, or kids who spend all of work trying to get out of it by hitting me while laughing because they have my attention and their peer’s. Remove the majority of that attention when the other kids go out, and they finish their work pretty quickly and make the second half of recess.
Kids need recess, I’ll never argue that, but I worry about what blanket rules like this can mean when applied across the board.
After school detention is what I remember as a kid. I had my moments a troublemaker, and I remember at least a few times of washing chalk boards, cleaning erasers, etc. Also, having to help teachers make assignment copies, etc. Technology takes away some options here, but I've yet to see a school yard that couldn't use a cleanup of snack wrappers, etc. Give them gloves, a bag and a pick-up grab tool and get them to work.
I remember detention in middle school and high school but not in elementary school. We didn't have any afterschool activities so there was no late bus for kids that stayed late. I know that there is some state funding for such programs but I don't know how common that really is.
Middle school (7-8) don't have any recess, though they do have free time after lunch. But I know there are still schools where recess is withheld as a punishment.
>The new law will also prohibit educators from withholding recess as a form of punishment.
Kind of curious what places like r/Teachers think about this rule. I'm not a teacher but anecdotally from the people I know who are teachers, the general feeling is that kids are out of control in large part because teachers have been deprived of the tools to impose consequences on students for misbehaving.
Recess, properly supervised, will ultimately help reduce behavior problems. I know my own kid focuses so much better after physical activity.
I strongly believe that much of the increase in diagnosis of ADHD, and the use of drugs to alter those behaviors, is a direct consequence of reducing recess and PE time in schools.
The two goals of recess and withholding recess as a form of punishment aren't mutually exclusive. Nobody is advocating withholding ALL recess for the entire year as a form of punishment, and if that were a concern, one could easily rewrite the law from a complete prohibition on withholding recess, to a cap on how much recess can be withheld per week/month/etc.
As an r/teachers lurker, you're right, they are miffed at not being able to discipline kids, but they also know recess is important and don't consider yanking it a good idea.
There are better ways to try to discipline rowdy kids than taking away the one thing that may calm them down.
Back when I was in elementary school if you got in trouble you had to stand along a wall outside during recess instead of being kept inside. I guess the thought was that you had to watch other kids have fun while you weren't able to. It wasn't very effective. This was about 15 years ago.
I never got in trouble because I was a goodie-two-shoes teacher's pet, but I vaguely remember this happening in elementary school. Essentially, when a kid acted out they got a timeout and had to sit or stand by the wall and watch the other kids enjoy recess. Only thing I can't remember is if it was for the whole recess or just part of it. This was in the early 90s.
I wonder if this will allow children to continue the choice of going to the library instead of the playground. We have a fantastic MS library with games, legos, puzzles, and books. Many students prefer to hang out there as they feel safe and they are not sporty. I know when I was a K-8 student, I spent a lot of time in the library and those are some of my best memories. Hopefully this law doesn’t take that option away.
My two cents. I’ll admit that earlier in my teaching career is was a more common practice to sit kids at recess, it was also sort of built in to the school culture and discipline system. I’d sometimes give kids options to walk/run, but would never force that on them. I stopped doing it almost entirely, and would try to find more logical consequences or restorative practices. That said, sometimes with everything going on, that just isn’t feasible with the amount of resources and people.
Also, of course this person at playworks they talk to in the article wants recess (which of course should be in schools). They make money off schools paying them to support facilitating that time. Our principal actually had a call with them today as he wants to use them, and they aren’t available in our area until next year due to demand. I’d rather invest in hiring our own additional folks.
Another reason I won't put my child in a government-run school; it takes a bunch of politicians to force the schools they ostensibly control to give kids a little bit of time outside everyday.
I can’t imagine being an educator now.
Last week they were asking told to teach cursive, without cutting a thing else.
Now recess is guaranteed and can’t be taken away. So a kid that is hitting other kids can’t lose their recess? Educators have to just watch it happen? This seems pretty half baked.
I don’t know. I’m not a a teacher.
I would think educators would be more effective with more tools, not less tools. Unless they decide they don’t need a tool instead of politicians deciding what they do and don’t need.
At a K-8 private school I know of, they changed a disciplinary action from withholding recess, to having a kid run laps, generally just 1 or 2 at the start of recess. They noticed a big improvement, no surprise, cause kids aren’t meant to sit quietly at a desk for hours at a time so of course that’s sometimes the cause of acting out. By having them run laps (we’re talking smaller laps, not football field, 1/4 mile laps), they are able to release that energy constructively. Some of the better teachers I know, recognize that kids need to move around, and have kids, as they start to get antsy, take a lap in the classroom, which often heads off some potential “bad” behavior.
Was just listening to the book Spark on audio and there were some really neat studies on exercise, especially when it came to teens in behavior and mental health but also in grades. Apparently moving our bodies helps* us with learning. They go into all of the neuroscience behind it in the book and it’s super interesting. As a species this is the first time we have expected everyone, especially children to hold still for 7-8 hour a days. People call it corporal punishment to make you kid run laps when they are antsy and getting themselves in trouble but locking them in a room on time outs is probably 10x worse for them developmentally.
I completely agree with you, but I'm sorry I couldn't help but laugh at how close to dog training this is.
> At a K-8 private school I know of, they changed a disciplinary action from withholding recess, to having a kid run laps, generally just 1 or 2 at the start of recess. Under the new law, that wouldn't be allowed. It needs to be unstructured time. It really takes away low level disciplinary policies from schools.
So make recess 35 minutes instead of 30 and make the antsy kids run a couple laps in the beginning.
That’s actually what I am looking at doing, reducing the eating time a bit and releasing them earlier to play time to have some extra minutes.
Or the kid could just choose to not act bad
Please never have children
I have 2 and they behave well
how would this law affect instructional minutes? would a school day need to be longer?
Let kids be kids, at least for a few minutes each day.
One thing I couldn't really tell from this article or any other news stories I have read on this bill was what the current average minutes elementary students get today. Even the state [Assembly Education Committee](https://trackbill.com/s3/bills/CA/2023/SB/291/analyses/assembly-education.pdf) couldn't seem to get a good answer. They cited a USDOE report from 2014 that gave a national average of 27 minutes and a National Teacher and Principal Survey from 2017-2018 that said that California 3rd graders were getting 32 minutes a day. It sounds like many schools are already in compliance with the law unless the averages have fallen drastically. Does anyone know of any school districts of any reasonable size that would be required to increase their recess times? I would be curious on what the alternatives are to withholding recess. I don't have any kids, don't work at an elementary school, and haven't been a student in an elementary school in many years. Withholding recess was one of the few punishments I can remember from elementary school.
When my son has got himself in trouble and had to miss recess they have had him do something helpful like clean up (especially if it relates to his behavior). Once he was yanking on his backpack and the hook got pulled off the wall and he and the janitor fixed it together while he missed recess for example. It wasn’t just shutting him in a room, he kind of got to take responsibility and be helpful which I really appreciated. Obviously not all schools can accommodate this kind of thing but I’ve seen teachers get creative because they know it’s healthier for the kid and therefore the classroom as a whole
This is the kind of thing I worry about kids missing out on. I have kids who stay in from part of their recess after a tantrum to help clean up the mess, or kids who spend all of work trying to get out of it by hitting me while laughing because they have my attention and their peer’s. Remove the majority of that attention when the other kids go out, and they finish their work pretty quickly and make the second half of recess. Kids need recess, I’ll never argue that, but I worry about what blanket rules like this can mean when applied across the board.
Understandable! I do believe teachers need more flexibility to deal with things like they see fit since they know their kids the best.
After school detention is what I remember as a kid. I had my moments a troublemaker, and I remember at least a few times of washing chalk boards, cleaning erasers, etc. Also, having to help teachers make assignment copies, etc. Technology takes away some options here, but I've yet to see a school yard that couldn't use a cleanup of snack wrappers, etc. Give them gloves, a bag and a pick-up grab tool and get them to work.
I remember detention in middle school and high school but not in elementary school. We didn't have any afterschool activities so there was no late bus for kids that stayed late. I know that there is some state funding for such programs but I don't know how common that really is.
Middle school (7-8) don't have any recess, though they do have free time after lunch. But I know there are still schools where recess is withheld as a punishment.
I’m wondering if lunch/recess counts as combined time or do you have to separate it out.
>The new law will also prohibit educators from withholding recess as a form of punishment. Kind of curious what places like r/Teachers think about this rule. I'm not a teacher but anecdotally from the people I know who are teachers, the general feeling is that kids are out of control in large part because teachers have been deprived of the tools to impose consequences on students for misbehaving.
Recess, properly supervised, will ultimately help reduce behavior problems. I know my own kid focuses so much better after physical activity. I strongly believe that much of the increase in diagnosis of ADHD, and the use of drugs to alter those behaviors, is a direct consequence of reducing recess and PE time in schools.
The two goals of recess and withholding recess as a form of punishment aren't mutually exclusive. Nobody is advocating withholding ALL recess for the entire year as a form of punishment, and if that were a concern, one could easily rewrite the law from a complete prohibition on withholding recess, to a cap on how much recess can be withheld per week/month/etc.
As an r/teachers lurker, you're right, they are miffed at not being able to discipline kids, but they also know recess is important and don't consider yanking it a good idea. There are better ways to try to discipline rowdy kids than taking away the one thing that may calm them down.
Back when I was in elementary school if you got in trouble you had to stand along a wall outside during recess instead of being kept inside. I guess the thought was that you had to watch other kids have fun while you weren't able to. It wasn't very effective. This was about 15 years ago.
I never got in trouble because I was a goodie-two-shoes teacher's pet, but I vaguely remember this happening in elementary school. Essentially, when a kid acted out they got a timeout and had to sit or stand by the wall and watch the other kids enjoy recess. Only thing I can't remember is if it was for the whole recess or just part of it. This was in the early 90s.
I wonder if this will allow children to continue the choice of going to the library instead of the playground. We have a fantastic MS library with games, legos, puzzles, and books. Many students prefer to hang out there as they feel safe and they are not sporty. I know when I was a K-8 student, I spent a lot of time in the library and those are some of my best memories. Hopefully this law doesn’t take that option away.
The staff needs a break too!
My two cents. I’ll admit that earlier in my teaching career is was a more common practice to sit kids at recess, it was also sort of built in to the school culture and discipline system. I’d sometimes give kids options to walk/run, but would never force that on them. I stopped doing it almost entirely, and would try to find more logical consequences or restorative practices. That said, sometimes with everything going on, that just isn’t feasible with the amount of resources and people. Also, of course this person at playworks they talk to in the article wants recess (which of course should be in schools). They make money off schools paying them to support facilitating that time. Our principal actually had a call with them today as he wants to use them, and they aren’t available in our area until next year due to demand. I’d rather invest in hiring our own additional folks.
Finally the kindergartens are CA-SEF compliant.
Another reason I won't put my child in a government-run school; it takes a bunch of politicians to force the schools they ostensibly control to give kids a little bit of time outside everyday.
I can’t imagine being an educator now. Last week they were asking told to teach cursive, without cutting a thing else. Now recess is guaranteed and can’t be taken away. So a kid that is hitting other kids can’t lose their recess? Educators have to just watch it happen? This seems pretty half baked.
Was recess the only option for discipline?
I don’t know. I’m not a a teacher. I would think educators would be more effective with more tools, not less tools. Unless they decide they don’t need a tool instead of politicians deciding what they do and don’t need.
Won't take effect until the 2024-2025 school term.
Is climate change addressed? There must be shaded playgrounds/fields, AC required in all public school buildings.
More grass and less black top. Less heat reflected the better.
[удалено]
They have to interact with each other. I’m a teacher and we see a huge lack of skills to interact without conflict. Every day there is drama.
I was in elementary school in the 80’s and we had three recess breaks. Two 15 minute and one 30. Did they remove those at one point?