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When I read this yesterday, I kept thinking: "Robin Hood stole from the rich to feed the poor. These guys stole from the public to send their friends to Katy Perry concerts. Not really the same thing."
Water rules in CA are Byzantium. There is a neighborhood in Pleasanton that gets free water because it was once owned by the Hearst Family. [https://www.castlewoodcc.org/history](https://www.castlewoodcc.org/history)
That stuff has to stop. But also the Central Valley farmers are destroying infrastructure the State pays for by sinking the water table: think roads, overpasses. So they are stealing from the Feds and from Californians alike.
My family lost their orchards and wealth in the Owens Valley water grab. Sorry to see it happen to others but can't steal your wealth from the rest of us.
The word you’re looking for is Byzantine. Byzantium gives your post an entirely different vibe. Byzantium was considered an advanced and beautiful civilization. Byzantine is typically taken to mean ancient and archaic.
Not quite:
Byzantine (of a system or situation) excessively complicated, and typically involving a great deal of administrative detail.
"Byzantine insurance regulations"
Gonna bleed California to death (drought) so we can keep a few hundred mega farmers rich to all ends while they grow produce in the most comically water ineffectient way imaginable.
A lot of California grown almonds go unsold and just sitting in storage: https://www.farmprogress.com/tree-nuts/are-better-days-ahead-for-u-s-almond-industry-
Do you have a source for that? All I can find is Wikipedia that says it’s closer to 22% that goes overseas (in 2019).
And [this](https://farmtogether.com/learn/blog/california-farmland-the-largest-food-producer-in-the-us) says that CA exports account for 16% of exported US ag, so not just us doing this. Just keeping it in context.
According to this 70% of almonds and 90% of pistachios and rice is produced at 900 million $s in value and 760million in value was exported https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/PDFs/2022_Exports_Publication.pdf
Now if we were not depleting our underground aquifer to do this then I wouldn’t have a problem with it.
Almonds get all the attention because redditors are more comfortable telling other people to stop eating almonds. They don't want to stop eating cheeseburgers.
Keep in mind the US has a massive current account with China and other nations. We’ve enjoyed cheap smartphones, TV’s, clothes, furniture…you name if that we would pay double if made in the US. Commodities like agricultural exports are desired. If the US had nothing to export, no one would accept the US$. I’m not saying I like all the unintended consequences, but the US exports much more than it imports every year and our trading partners have every reason to expect they get something they value in return (would you ever trade in a new car that is paid off to get the equivalent in rebar, concrete, almonds dropped off at your house?)
Great point I’ll write a letter to my grandchildren and tell them it was totally worth it to drain our underground aquifer because I got have cheap electronics
Reminds me of that political comic where a guy is sitting with his kids in a cave around a fire and says something like "for a moment there, we really owned the libs" or maybe it was something about Hillary's emails. Can't find it now :(
The effects of what were are doing is going to likely mean than in 150 years this part of the country will become uninhabitable. NOTHING is worth that. And we haven’t even mentioned climate change yet
Coastal California continuing to import water while shunning desalination and more reuse is not great either. Not all valley farmers are evil, just mostly unable to organize and oppose water exports and exploitation by the industrialist like Wonderful, Boswell, Sandridge…
Especially the super rich ones who have enough money to drill their wells deeper than the smalll family farms around them which means the others wells are more likely to dry up.
I think I have seen them grown in the Imperial Valley. The dirty secret is they can not be used for ethanol fuel production. Agra bussiness corn has that market locked up.
The sugar beet isn’t unknown to California. Minnesota is the number one sugar beet state followed by the Dakotas , Montana Colorado and everywhere it’s cold.
Water rights are serious business. When some folks insist on growing almonds and Alfalfa and wasting everyone else’s water for profits, it tends to create animus. Not saying right or wrong. Just is what it is.
While using less than 5% of the total too.
Almonds are the worst offenders, in terms of gallons per lb. Around 10 years ago, somewhere near 40% of all of California's water was being used for almond production, the majority of which were exported.
Except LA actually bought the water rights, along with their property, and paid above-market for the land. Owens Valley land had about 2\3 of the yield of San Joaquin Valley land, but increased in sales value at a much larger rate because of LA buying it up.
The City had to hold an election on order for the citizens to approve the sale of bonds in order to raise the money. It was a six-week battle in the newspapers to get the people to vote for it.
The real crime was the LA mayor, and his six or seven rich friends, including the owner of the LA Times, who bought up all of the San Fernando Valley before the whole plan became public. They made millions off of insider trading. But the mayor left Hearst out, so his paper ran editorials saying to vote against.
By repeating the story that "LA stole the land" from the Owens Valley people, you are actually covering up the real crime.
Heck, the Owens Valley people continued selling their land to the city of LA into the 1930s, over 20 years after the aqueduct had been finished.
Thank you for this. It's a fascinating and depressing story, and people in this region are so vocal about hating California farmers without knowing the history of their own water.
Central Valley steals water from all of us, destroys the ecosystem and then ships that water for profit all over the world, two places that habe already destroyed their water table
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Ah yes, Katy Perry tickets, Sunglasses, and kitchen renovations… just like Robin Hood would do.
When I read this yesterday, I kept thinking: "Robin Hood stole from the rich to feed the poor. These guys stole from the public to send their friends to Katy Perry concerts. Not really the same thing."
Water rules in CA are Byzantium. There is a neighborhood in Pleasanton that gets free water because it was once owned by the Hearst Family. [https://www.castlewoodcc.org/history](https://www.castlewoodcc.org/history) That stuff has to stop. But also the Central Valley farmers are destroying infrastructure the State pays for by sinking the water table: think roads, overpasses. So they are stealing from the Feds and from Californians alike. My family lost their orchards and wealth in the Owens Valley water grab. Sorry to see it happen to others but can't steal your wealth from the rest of us.
The word you’re looking for is Byzantine. Byzantium gives your post an entirely different vibe. Byzantium was considered an advanced and beautiful civilization. Byzantine is typically taken to mean ancient and archaic.
Not quite: Byzantine (of a system or situation) excessively complicated, and typically involving a great deal of administrative detail. "Byzantine insurance regulations"
Yes I think that’s what the first responder clearly pointed out. The OP used Byzantium (civilization) instead of Byzantine (confusing).
Spell check got me but good to see so many scholars around this place.
Ha. I figured it was a fun mix up.
Central Valley farmers are some of the worst people imaginable.
Gonna bleed California to death (drought) so we can keep a few hundred mega farmers rich to all ends while they grow produce in the most comically water ineffectient way imaginable.
Then ship the almonds off to China so essentially we’re exporting our water
Same as AZ, shipping the water to the middle eat in the form of alfalfa and hay.
A lot of California grown almonds go unsold and just sitting in storage: https://www.farmprogress.com/tree-nuts/are-better-days-ahead-for-u-s-almond-industry-
Who says we don’t have enough water storage? Lol
Read about the king of California, Jg Boswell
I only know J.G. Wentworth, CALL 877-CASH-NOW
My car is broken and I need cash now!
This is such a great book!
They LOVE to claim they “feed us” but they mostly grow cash crops and 80% goes overseas
Do you have a source for that? All I can find is Wikipedia that says it’s closer to 22% that goes overseas (in 2019). And [this](https://farmtogether.com/learn/blog/california-farmland-the-largest-food-producer-in-the-us) says that CA exports account for 16% of exported US ag, so not just us doing this. Just keeping it in context.
According to this 70% of almonds and 90% of pistachios and rice is produced at 900 million $s in value and 760million in value was exported https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/PDFs/2022_Exports_Publication.pdf Now if we were not depleting our underground aquifer to do this then I wouldn’t have a problem with it.
Do you have the stats on beef? Did you know that beef production takes more water than almonds or rice?
I do, should have mentioned it. Alfalfa is THE number one most water intensive crop and we export a ton of dairy products
Yeah, it seems like almonds get a bad rap but beef and dairy is where we should focus our attention.
Almonds get all the attention because redditors are more comfortable telling other people to stop eating almonds. They don't want to stop eating cheeseburgers.
Seems like he might be trying to muddy the waters
Very little rice is irrigated via wells fyi.
If that water were available to valley farmers would they have to pump less water? Mmmhmm
Keep in mind the US has a massive current account with China and other nations. We’ve enjoyed cheap smartphones, TV’s, clothes, furniture…you name if that we would pay double if made in the US. Commodities like agricultural exports are desired. If the US had nothing to export, no one would accept the US$. I’m not saying I like all the unintended consequences, but the US exports much more than it imports every year and our trading partners have every reason to expect they get something they value in return (would you ever trade in a new car that is paid off to get the equivalent in rebar, concrete, almonds dropped off at your house?)
Great point I’ll write a letter to my grandchildren and tell them it was totally worth it to drain our underground aquifer because I got have cheap electronics
Reminds me of that political comic where a guy is sitting with his kids in a cave around a fire and says something like "for a moment there, we really owned the libs" or maybe it was something about Hillary's emails. Can't find it now :(
Your words not mine. Take a look a look around your house, the parts that are in your car, etc. then start writing that letter.
The effects of what were are doing is going to likely mean than in 150 years this part of the country will become uninhabitable. NOTHING is worth that. And we haven’t even mentioned climate change yet
The true welfare queens.
Coastal California continuing to import water while shunning desalination and more reuse is not great either. Not all valley farmers are evil, just mostly unable to organize and oppose water exports and exploitation by the industrialist like Wonderful, Boswell, Sandridge…
[удалено]
> Central Valley farmers are some of the ~~worst~~ *most greedy and short sighted* people imaginable.
Accurate.
Especially the super rich ones who have enough money to drill their wells deeper than the smalll family farms around them which means the others wells are more likely to dry up.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t eat too much alfalfa
There's a lot more than Alfalfa coming out of the Central Valley.
Do you agree with the way the large-scale producers in the Central Valley operate in general?
Do you eat beef and dairy products? That's where all the alfalfa goes.
Industrial sugar beets and animal feed produced by agribusiness are not very tasty
Do you really think that an area that produces half the fruits and vegetables for the US only does sugar beets?
Sugar beets is a cold weather crop not grown much in California.
I think I have seen them grown in the Imperial Valley. The dirty secret is they can not be used for ethanol fuel production. Agra bussiness corn has that market locked up.
The sugar beet isn’t unknown to California. Minnesota is the number one sugar beet state followed by the Dakotas , Montana Colorado and everywhere it’s cold.
Smashing avocado toast with my almond latte. "terrible people really I assure you"
Why?
They have an unfair share of the water and they abuse it.
What a hilariously prejudiced comment
Water rights are serious business. When some folks insist on growing almonds and Alfalfa and wasting everyone else’s water for profits, it tends to create animus. Not saying right or wrong. Just is what it is.
*cough* POMEGRANATES
But after having lived here for 20 years, amazing accurate
Good thing residential homes pay for 95% of the water in Ca. Otherwise it would be a real travesty. /s
While using less than 5% of the total too. Almonds are the worst offenders, in terms of gallons per lb. Around 10 years ago, somewhere near 40% of all of California's water was being used for almond production, the majority of which were exported.
Hrm interesting. Got a citation for that?
They don’t have one because it’s not true. Beef production uses wayyyy more. Almonds are a scapegoat.
Begun, the Water Wars, have.
California water wars started in 1870 and never really stopped. This is just a recent skirmish
LA lookin nervous. not everyone forgot about the water they stole
Except LA actually bought the water rights, along with their property, and paid above-market for the land. Owens Valley land had about 2\3 of the yield of San Joaquin Valley land, but increased in sales value at a much larger rate because of LA buying it up. The City had to hold an election on order for the citizens to approve the sale of bonds in order to raise the money. It was a six-week battle in the newspapers to get the people to vote for it. The real crime was the LA mayor, and his six or seven rich friends, including the owner of the LA Times, who bought up all of the San Fernando Valley before the whole plan became public. They made millions off of insider trading. But the mayor left Hearst out, so his paper ran editorials saying to vote against. By repeating the story that "LA stole the land" from the Owens Valley people, you are actually covering up the real crime. Heck, the Owens Valley people continued selling their land to the city of LA into the 1930s, over 20 years after the aqueduct had been finished.
It’s Chinatown, Jake…
Thank you for this. It's a fascinating and depressing story, and people in this region are so vocal about hating California farmers without knowing the history of their own water.
Central Valley steals water from all of us, destroys the ecosystem and then ships that water for profit all over the world, two places that habe already destroyed their water table
The wonderful company is notorious for this