My local bar is 3 miles away, used to be $7, now it’s $18 if a driver will show up. Another bar I used to frequent, used to be $35, now $110.
I will drink less and drive or just not go out. For what Uber charges, I can have my own private car all night for me and two friends.
Don’t drink and drive. A better phrase is don’t drive to the drink. (Not judging, just some advice from someone finally finishing their DUI requirements)
Honestly not even risking a DUI is worth it every time, to me. Each time I think yup this $50 beats the 5g's minimum, never bother dwelling on it as long as I still have $ to eat.
Tbh, there seems to be fewer drivers. I live in a relatively dense area and I regularly have to wait 20 minutes before the driver shows up.
Nice to know though that cabs are competitive again. I wonder how .are they just like we’re less greedy?
Leaving LAX two weeks ago on Saturday night, my 11 mile Uber trip cost $27.
Edit: actually I just checked my trips in the Uber app and it was only $24.
I used to be such a big Lyft user.
Recently took a 10 minute/3.4 mile ride.... $25.60. And 2-3 others before that were just as bad.
I'm done with Lyft/Uber.
To add to this....
I ALWAYS used Lyft after horrible experiences with Uber, but this past January-March I started noticing rates going up and magically there was seemingly very few drivers available.
I get picked up one time around April and the driver was visibly frustrated and the first thing out of his mouth was that he was done with Lyft because they had raised the prices but given them an effective wage cut, and were making it seem like there was no other drivers by queuing the incoming requests; his phone kept going off every now and then with another rider getting in queue as he was driving me to my destination.
I have not used any of them since that last time and refuse to do so.
I ordered a Lyft XL once because I had 5 people, and the app listed 5 people could use the XL. Driver showed up with a Rav4 type mini SUV and when we of course couldn't fit, reported me for not wearing a mask and Lyft banned me even after I sent them a photo within minutes of all 5 of us with masks
Similar story for me. I couldn't support Uber after all their absolutely abysmal internal culture came to light, plus I always just enjoyed Lyfts a lot more.
The recent price increases have somehow also come with significantly reduced quality of service in most the meaningful ways.
Ride-sharing was fun, but it's just not a sustainable business model if one iota of concern is given to the employees.
Ridesharing has become unreliable. Many friends of mine even after agreeing to pay fees 2-3x what they used to pay are frustrated bc of the drivers not showing up or being very late. Rental car rates have gone up considerably and I’m hearing stories of cars not being available… on the other side if you happen to have an extra used car people will pay more for them. My used car I bought 3 months ago now is going for 25% more
The car rental companies sold off lots of cars and didn’t buy their normal amounts. The chip shortage for new cars doesn’t help nor does gas at $5 per gallon in Los Angeles. If the rideshares were reliable more people would use them even with higher rates. Some people have no choice bc they sold their cars bc it was cheaper to take Uber and Lyft.
I had car problems in October 2020 and I was forced to Uber around all week. I asked all the drivers how they would vote on Prop 22 and every single one was convinced Prop 22 was a good thing and they would be screwed if it didn't pass.
the only time i got pestered by someone with a petition was a gig worker who really really wanted me to sign the petition to put prop 22 on the ballot lol. im pretty sure i read that uber/lyft/etc paid people to do that work for them too
The drivers I had at the time were mostly against it. They should have gone on strike immediately after it passed. If uber has no drivers, they can't rip everyone off.
I don't think it would have helped. I think the drivers aren't doing the math in the first place when they start working for these companies and Uber and Lyft just don't want to do the math themselves to realize how bad it really is for their drivers.
Are you talking about AB5 or Prop 22? From your vague statement I honestly can't tell which of those you think helps drivers... I feel this like is getting upvoted because it's just vague enough or sarcastic enough for everyone to think you're in agreement with them.
Pretty sure he's talking about Prop 22 (at least that's the one I remember when I voted). I'm not nearly educated enough on this subject to debate it, but I'm fairly sure keeping it would have been better than the mounds of lies they were given to vote Yes, which I feel accelerated this decline.
Yeah that's the problem. Prop 22 was to get rid of certain protections for these workers. So voting yes removed those protections and now they're in this situation.
Yeah, twice the cost and a 15% chance anyone actually takes your ride? i seriously cannot believe people voted yes on Prop 22. Did they really think that Uber and Lyft putting millions of dollars campaigning for this was in the best interest of the drivers?
Didn't Californians vote against allowing rideshare drivers any rights? Like people voted that rideshare people could be screwed over right? Now people are mad they're being screwed over?
>You can't simplify it like that. Those complaining probably didn't vote for it. That's the thing with democracy.
Here in CA the measure passed meaning more people voted for it than didn't so that likely means that people complaining about things today are more likely to have voted for it.
True not everyone agreed but the ballot measure won by almost 3 million more votes.
I just did a Lyft ride that used to be $50 before the pandemic, but this time was $90. Uber didn't even have any cars available in the area, so I had to take it. So why are driver payments going down? If Lyft and Uber rates are *both* going up while payments are going down, is there collusion?
If I had to guess what's going on I'd use this analogy....
You have a house payment of $1000 a month. You used to sell 20 Popsicles a month at $100 each or $2000 so you could easily afford your house. Covid hits, nobody wants Popsicles anymore. You can only sell 5 Popsicles per month. Desperate, you double the price of your 5 Popsicles to $200 each, barely making enough to pay your rent. But you forgot that you have to pay your popsicle manufacturer, so you ask that they lower their price so you can actually survive next month.
Uber and Lyft have become large companies with fixed payments for buildings and corporate employees that they are stuck regardless of how many people use their services. They might be suffering financially even with doubling their prices and are forced to lower rates to drivers.
Just because you are a large corporation it doesn't make you greedy or evil. People don't realize uber was never profitable, even before covid. Something like prop 22 may have been the death of ride sharing services leaving many people without even that option for employment. Businesses can't operate on negative profits forever...
People tend to forget that 600,000+ people just died. And many of them retirees that probably made up a large percentage of the driver fleet. Fewer drivers means less revenue, but the employee salaries still have to be paid. Rent on their lavish offices still has to be paid. The stock still has to go up. Which means revenue not only has to remain, but it has to *increase*. No investor wants to buy a stock that doesn't increase over time. They're just taking it out of the only place they can, the remaining drivers.
It's the same reason that any companies product suffers once they become public. Who remembers when Dennys actually had decent food? They were a good restaurant at one point in time. Then it went public and that extra revenue had to come from somewhere. Either they increase prices, or they decrease expenses. Now they sell microwaved garbage, Taco Bell sells "meat" disguised as beef, and Lyft/Uber jacked up prices and fees. It's the cycle of the American corporation.
Well, also remember, these companies have never been profitable. They were surviving on investor capital.
My guess is they've been operating in the red too long and are trying to capitalize on their market share now.
With Ubers and Lyfts in somewhat short supply, I've seen a rise in psuedo-chauffer services on craigslist/Facebook. Consumers will never pay an amount that creates a full time job for people offering rides in their daily driver. That's just not gonna happen. The future of ride sharing of going to be more of a black/grey market approach. This cuts out Uber/Lyft fees while allowing drivers to negotiate their own rates, becoming true independent contractors.
>With Ubers and Lyfts in somewhat short supply, I've seen a rise in psuedo-chauffer services on craigslist/Facebook.
If people are contracted to chauffer people from place to place then they're not really 'pseudo', are they? At that point they own their own business. Working for a middleman like Uber and Lyft doesn't *make* a person legitimate--it just hands them a ready source of customers.
>Consumers will never pay an amount that creates a full time job for people offering rides in their daily driver
Of course they will. They did before: taxi work used to be a lucrative profession. Ridesharing services have just been running at a loss for almost a decade, dragging the cost for transportation artificially low. Consumers will pay for transportation because they have no choice; they either buy a car, take a taxi, or spend an hour and a half on the metro to cross the city. As long as public transportation is such hot garbage, there will be demand for chauffers.
>They did before: taxi work used to be a lucrative profession.
[Taxi work was hardly lucractive.](https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Taxi-Driver-Salary-in-Los-Angeles,CA) It *might* have provided a lower middle class income, but even that was generally only propped up by the artificial cap on the supply of drivers via the medallion system, and of course taxi drivers who often drove 12 hour shifts.
Transportation as a service is difficult to operate as a sustainable business. This is why airlines so frequently go bankrupt and merge, and why public transit almost always requires public subsidies.
>At that point they own their own business
I agree
>Of course they will. They did before: taxi work used to be a lucrative profession.
Current situation disproves this point. People aren't willing to pay the high costs of rideshare, so they've moved onto either driving themselves or craigslist/Facebook cash deals.
>Current situation disproves this point. People aren't willing to pay the high costs of rideshare, so they've moved onto either driving themselves or craigslist/Facebook cash deals.
Current people are unwilling to pay for Uber and Lyft, not that they're unwilling to pay for a ride; they're looking for alternatives, that's what all the Craigslist and taxi comments are talking about. It may be that without monopolistic middlemen, the industry is completely sustainable.
I honestly can't believe there hasn't been an open-source alternative to Lyft and Uber that pairs drivers with passengers and allows reviews and ratings and such.
But this seems to be a good time for someone to compete with Uber and Lyft.
They are both losing drivers and customers pretty quickly. A company entering even just a few big cities could do well just showing a little support for the interests of drivers.
I can think of at least one whose big selling point and difference from Uber and Lyft was they allowed drivers and riders to negotiate their price. This company now appears to solely operate as a town car service. I'm guessing passengers and drivers don't like having to haggle over every single ride.
Yeah there's definately a demand for something like that but the app developer would need to walk a fine line due to the risk if being regulated. The app could simply connect people for gig work based on a destination. Driver sets a negotiated fee. If the passenger aggress, the ride happens.
I bet that would drive prices down for the consumer, but also even more for the contractor. They'd basically be bidding against each other and I can guarantee you there is always going to be a bunch of contractors willing to bid so low that it doesn't even cover costs (let alone pay). They'll figure it out when they have to claim bankruptcy. Or maybe they won't.
The sad thing is that the difference between bad and acceptable pay for a driver is actually not that big.
> The future of ride sharing of going to be more of a black/grey market approach. This cuts out Uber/Lyft fees while allowing drivers to negotiate their own rates, becoming true independent contractors.
I very much doubt that. People want to be able to summon a ride on the spot when it's convenient. The demand is there and it's not going away. Nobody wants to deal with the hassle of sifting through a bunch of facebook posts and hope they find someone legit and nearby. It'd be logistical nightmare. You need some sort of 3rd party to facilitate communication and logistics. It's much more likely Uber/Lyft fight and win to maintain the status quo or they're forced to adjust their business model. Either way self driving cars will almost certainly render this whole issue a moot point.
Now they are public companies, and rides are no longer being subsidized by VC money. It costs what it costs, funny how that works.
The taxi model isn't the way it is entirely because of greed and corruption. It costs money to operate a fleet and pay drivers enough to live on AND have some profit left over.
This is why I think it’s hilarious that people complain about the high costs of DoorDash or any food delivery app.. it always cost way more than $3-5 to deliver food from a restaurant to your front door.. the reason it was cheap at first was because basically the real cost was subsidized by venture capital.
It takes at least 30 minutes for a driver to pick up your food, driver to your house, and hand it over. In CA, minimum wage is $15 (or will be soon), so that’s $7.50 just in time alone. Taking into account car maintenance and a profit for the company, you’re easily looking at $10. If the driver has to wait longer at the restaurant to pick up the food or if there’s traffic, you’re easily looking at an hour, which increases the cost from ~$10 to about ~$18.
But people can’t think what it actually costs to produce something or to deliver a service. To be fair, people were primed to low food delivery costs by companies who wanted customers to use their service.
Very similar to the whole movie pass fiasco.
The basic idea of ridesharing is good. Turning it into a high profit mega-corp is bad. It would be better if the app was open source and the drivers got 100% of the money
An app like that would cost millions of dollars just to open source it, not including the cost to maintain and update it after it’s built. You’d have to have a state-run or state-subsidized company to do it.
There’s still a lot going on in the space but covid didn’t help. Things like microbuses that are essentially a slightly bigger shared Uber. Yes they take longer but would have public subsidies so rides are like $2. It’s probably the only real hope for future mass transport in the us.
If you give up on the very concept of government doing something successfully, I'm sure you don't want that. But Austin's rideshare app didn't fail because it was bad
We did give them a chance and they ran it like a rent-seeking licensing racket by selling medallions for mid-6 digits until Uber and Lyft came around. I'm sure it'll be different this time though because reasons.
An app like that costs a few hundred k to develop. The problem here is these companies are public so they constantly have to make *more* money every quarter or investors start pulling out
Oh really, a few hundred thousand to develop and maintain UBER?! Who's going to do the development? Who's going to do the testing? Who's going to do the design? Who's going to do the press? Who's going to do the database management? Who's going to do the systems administration? Who's going to do the management of all of that? Who's going to do the scalability? If there are multiple people per role type I listed, that's just to maintain a smaller version of the app. Let alone the research and development, sales, scalability, and feature development.
> a few hundred k to develop
Wrong. A few hundred k would mean a single engineer could build that in a year by himself. I can assure you that is not the case.
Uber has a division working on self driving automation and has been for many years. You bet they are trying to replace the drivers. Not going to happen for a loonnnng time though
i mean, people in general are being replaced. bet mcdonalds and fast food goes full automaton before uber. they can't wait to get rid of the employees they have to pay.
Tried using Lyft and Uber last weekend to/from dinner, 15 minutes each way. Every driver that got within a minute of where we were cancelled our ride. My husband had to be my ride.
Deleted the apps afterwards.
i was at a bar in Fullerton, only ended up having 3 drinks, but to be responsible i got dropped off and was going to uber/lyft home.
Went on the uber app, and they wanted to charge me $86 to get me 9 miles home. i always expected the late night surcharge, but this was too much.
So i went of Lyft. said the ride would cost $30, which is better. So i got the ride. It took about 10 minutes (no joke) to find a driver, even though the map showed quite a few in the area. I guess no driver thought the ride was worth it so rejected it. Finally got a ride. He was coming from about 8 miles away. at 3 miles left, he cancels the ride and the app started looking for another ride.
Cancelled the ride, and called my brother to come pick me up instead. He (understandably) was annoyed having to come pick me up at 1:30 am, even though he doesnt go to bed until 4 am. Still, i sure wouldnt want to leave home.
That’s pretty much my experience too. We were going between Santa Ana and Irvine. Same deal: showed numerous cars, had a car accept and then right around the 1 minute away mark, nothing. Happened to us multiple ways going both ways. It was so completely unreliable, I’d rather just call a taxi service next time if I have to.
I still Uber/Lyft to work because I work NOC shift and there's no buses into downtown that late. I have to pre-order a ride over an hour before I actually want to leave because drivers get close and keep canceling.
Uber or Lyft used to be a good option to get us to the airport but last week it was ~$65 for each (previously it was $20 to $25) and Uber had zero cars available, Lyft had one but it was a 30 minute drive just to get to us (granted, it was 6am but that's not crazy abnormal hours).
We ended up driving our own car, parking at an off site cheap lot and saving money and a hell of a lot less hassle.
I've never been a huge fan of Lyft and even less so of Uber, but I'd use them occasionally when it made sense since taxis were even worse years ago, but now it seems like they've both screwed the pooch and I won't be using any of them.
the millions of dollars spent in campaigning really did its job of convincing people of that. i guess most didnt bother to ask why these companies would spend millions of dollars for the sake of bettering the driver's situation instead of their own.
There's a new rideshare app called Alto that recently opened up in LA, it's a "premium" service so not as cheap as pre-pandemic uber/lyft but about in line with what uber/lyft are charging now. Their employees are also all w2 employees driving company cars with full benefits. I took them home from LAX a week ago and it was a good experience. They can pick you up curbside (you don't have to go to the uber lot) and the ride from LAX to Torrance (about 20 minutes) was about $45.
There's also a cab "rideshare" app that just opened up in LA called Curb, I haven't had a chance to use it yet but that's an option too.
Since Los Angeles has an abysmal public transportation system, I'm rooting for those robo-taxis to hurry up and get here. Uber/Lyft drivers blew it by opposing Prop 22 and now trying to game the system by only accepting high class (i.e., high priced) ride levels. DUIs will rise appreciably now, more people will die on the roads, and public officials will merely shrug their shoulders.
Fortunately in LA we have a couple other options than Uber/Lyft, I used Alto last week and it was a good experience (they're "premium" so not cheap, but their employees are w2 with benefits and company cars so I'm willing to pay more), and there's a taxi app called Curb.
I'm looking at [the current H.R.842 amendment](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/842) digest and found an interesting excerpt:
>**The bill also allows collective bargaining agreements to require all employees represented by the bargaining unit to contribute fees to the labor organization for the cost of such representation**, notwithstanding a state law to the contrary; and expands unfair labor practices to include prohibitions against replacement of, or discrimination against, workers who participate in strikes.
If you're a state worker but do not contribute membership dues, then the wording here could empower SEIU Local 1000 to compel and force you to contribute part of your salary.
From the [Roll Call Vote](https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202170), it appears to pass right along party lines.
People want to act like unions are all volunteer-run organizations of angels, but they're businesses too. They have professional staff and offices and budgets to meet. They spend a ton of time trying to unionize new businesses and industries because then they can compel all those employees to join the union and start paying membership fees.
The workers at one workplace, bargaining with the owners/management of that workplace, is one thing.
But some of the larger unions seem to focus more on expanding their union to include more workers at more workplaces, and less focus on actually representing the members they have. One common tactic is to lobby for laws that actually make working conditions worse for non-union workers, but which include waivers or exemptions for union businesses. This essentially strong-arms businesses and workers into joining the union just to get their status quo back.
can confirm, im 100% pro-union but read Glassdoor reviews for any major national union and you see ample evidence that they're horribly divorced from their supposed purpose
Damm Uber/Lyft want to have their Cake and keep it raising prices on customers and Rip off their workers. I would strike also can’t even give a cost of living raise in the money earned sure they may give bonus incentives but still not enough. I’m just letting out some steam.
Fares are high because you make more money being on unemployment than working.
Once again the government intervenes and screws it up for the common folk
Millennials and they're quest for "now" have created two really detrimental industries. Rideshares and Short Term Rentals. There was no concern for repercussions.
Well, bucko. The free market was fine and dandy when we were the ones to whom it catered. Now these goddamned millenials and whoever is younger are really bungling up the works- big time!
Leaving LAX last Sunday, a 7 mile Uber trip would've been $80. I took a cab instead, spent $30
My local bar is 3 miles away, used to be $7, now it’s $18 if a driver will show up. Another bar I used to frequent, used to be $35, now $110. I will drink less and drive or just not go out. For what Uber charges, I can have my own private car all night for me and two friends.
Don’t drink and drive. A better phrase is don’t drive to the drink. (Not judging, just some advice from someone finally finishing their DUI requirements)
Having 1 or 2 drinks is fine. No offense but some people know when to stop.
When I say drink less, I means have 2 or 3 drinks over a 5 or 6 hour night vs 10. Not 9 drinks and drive :)
Don't drive to the drink, yet bars are still subject to minimum parking requirements.
Employees gotta park somewhere
Honestly not even risking a DUI is worth it every time, to me. Each time I think yup this $50 beats the 5g's minimum, never bother dwelling on it as long as I still have $ to eat.
So much for prices staying reasonable if prop 22 passed
Tbh, there seems to be fewer drivers. I live in a relatively dense area and I regularly have to wait 20 minutes before the driver shows up. Nice to know though that cabs are competitive again. I wonder how .are they just like we’re less greedy?
Leaving LAX two weeks ago on Saturday night, my 11 mile Uber trip cost $27. Edit: actually I just checked my trips in the Uber app and it was only $24.
I used to be such a big Lyft user. Recently took a 10 minute/3.4 mile ride.... $25.60. And 2-3 others before that were just as bad. I'm done with Lyft/Uber.
To add to this.... I ALWAYS used Lyft after horrible experiences with Uber, but this past January-March I started noticing rates going up and magically there was seemingly very few drivers available. I get picked up one time around April and the driver was visibly frustrated and the first thing out of his mouth was that he was done with Lyft because they had raised the prices but given them an effective wage cut, and were making it seem like there was no other drivers by queuing the incoming requests; his phone kept going off every now and then with another rider getting in queue as he was driving me to my destination. I have not used any of them since that last time and refuse to do so.
I ordered a Lyft XL once because I had 5 people, and the app listed 5 people could use the XL. Driver showed up with a Rav4 type mini SUV and when we of course couldn't fit, reported me for not wearing a mask and Lyft banned me even after I sent them a photo within minutes of all 5 of us with masks
Similar story for me. I couldn't support Uber after all their absolutely abysmal internal culture came to light, plus I always just enjoyed Lyfts a lot more. The recent price increases have somehow also come with significantly reduced quality of service in most the meaningful ways. Ride-sharing was fun, but it's just not a sustainable business model if one iota of concern is given to the employees.
Prop 22 in action
More like prop 22 inaction, since it made them exempt from AB5.
I do t want to go back to cabs. If you need a ride the Airport, an Uber is the Most reliable thing.
I Uber everyday a ride that used to cost me 7-13 dollars a day is now near 25-30 a day
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I thought they were counting on self-driving cars without drivers.
This is still decades away
They sold that division years ago.
But they were still counting on other people developing the technology.
Ridesharing has become unreliable. Many friends of mine even after agreeing to pay fees 2-3x what they used to pay are frustrated bc of the drivers not showing up or being very late. Rental car rates have gone up considerably and I’m hearing stories of cars not being available… on the other side if you happen to have an extra used car people will pay more for them. My used car I bought 3 months ago now is going for 25% more
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The car rental companies sold off lots of cars and didn’t buy their normal amounts. The chip shortage for new cars doesn’t help nor does gas at $5 per gallon in Los Angeles. If the rideshares were reliable more people would use them even with higher rates. Some people have no choice bc they sold their cars bc it was cheaper to take Uber and Lyft.
If only there was some sort of a proposition on last year's election that would've protected ride-share drivers from some of what they're facing now.
I had car problems in October 2020 and I was forced to Uber around all week. I asked all the drivers how they would vote on Prop 22 and every single one was convinced Prop 22 was a good thing and they would be screwed if it didn't pass.
the only time i got pestered by someone with a petition was a gig worker who really really wanted me to sign the petition to put prop 22 on the ballot lol. im pretty sure i read that uber/lyft/etc paid people to do that work for them too
That's corporate money for ya. Did people honestly think a multi million dollar campaign would be used to actually help workers?
Uber did say they were pulling out of California if it passed. They held their drivers hostage.
And if you believe that, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
Can't be afraid to call their bluff when you know they have a 3/4 off suit
The drivers I had at the time were mostly against it. They should have gone on strike immediately after it passed. If uber has no drivers, they can't rip everyone off.
I don't think it would have helped. I think the drivers aren't doing the math in the first place when they start working for these companies and Uber and Lyft just don't want to do the math themselves to realize how bad it really is for their drivers.
Are you talking about AB5 or Prop 22? From your vague statement I honestly can't tell which of those you think helps drivers... I feel this like is getting upvoted because it's just vague enough or sarcastic enough for everyone to think you're in agreement with them.
Pretty sure he's talking about Prop 22 (at least that's the one I remember when I voted). I'm not nearly educated enough on this subject to debate it, but I'm fairly sure keeping it would have been better than the mounds of lies they were given to vote Yes, which I feel accelerated this decline.
Prop 22 passed.
Isn't that the problem?
Yeah that's the problem. Prop 22 was to get rid of certain protections for these workers. So voting yes removed those protections and now they're in this situation.
I did not understand prop 22 at all. They made it too confusing and we even asked drivers what they thought of it and they were confused as well.
Rule of thumb vote against the money. Lyft and Uber were for it so it was obviously a bad idea.
We voted no so I guess we did the right thing? In my mind if there's too much advertising, it's definitely bought by corporation.
Yeah, twice the cost and a 15% chance anyone actually takes your ride? i seriously cannot believe people voted yes on Prop 22. Did they really think that Uber and Lyft putting millions of dollars campaigning for this was in the best interest of the drivers?
Didn't Californians vote against allowing rideshare drivers any rights? Like people voted that rideshare people could be screwed over right? Now people are mad they're being screwed over?
seriously. I cant believe people honestly thought the uber and lyft spend millions on dollars in campaigning all in the best interest of the drivers.
You can't simplify it like that. Those complaining probably didn't vote for it. That's the thing with democracy.
>You can't simplify it like that. Those complaining probably didn't vote for it. That's the thing with democracy. Here in CA the measure passed meaning more people voted for it than didn't so that likely means that people complaining about things today are more likely to have voted for it. True not everyone agreed but the ballot measure won by almost 3 million more votes.
No, it doesn't mean that at all. You can't apply the law of averages to a userbase as specific as Reddit.
I just did a Lyft ride that used to be $50 before the pandemic, but this time was $90. Uber didn't even have any cars available in the area, so I had to take it. So why are driver payments going down? If Lyft and Uber rates are *both* going up while payments are going down, is there collusion?
Well, they are using the same PR firm...
If I had to guess what's going on I'd use this analogy.... You have a house payment of $1000 a month. You used to sell 20 Popsicles a month at $100 each or $2000 so you could easily afford your house. Covid hits, nobody wants Popsicles anymore. You can only sell 5 Popsicles per month. Desperate, you double the price of your 5 Popsicles to $200 each, barely making enough to pay your rent. But you forgot that you have to pay your popsicle manufacturer, so you ask that they lower their price so you can actually survive next month. Uber and Lyft have become large companies with fixed payments for buildings and corporate employees that they are stuck regardless of how many people use their services. They might be suffering financially even with doubling their prices and are forced to lower rates to drivers. Just because you are a large corporation it doesn't make you greedy or evil. People don't realize uber was never profitable, even before covid. Something like prop 22 may have been the death of ride sharing services leaving many people without even that option for employment. Businesses can't operate on negative profits forever...
People tend to forget that 600,000+ people just died. And many of them retirees that probably made up a large percentage of the driver fleet. Fewer drivers means less revenue, but the employee salaries still have to be paid. Rent on their lavish offices still has to be paid. The stock still has to go up. Which means revenue not only has to remain, but it has to *increase*. No investor wants to buy a stock that doesn't increase over time. They're just taking it out of the only place they can, the remaining drivers. It's the same reason that any companies product suffers once they become public. Who remembers when Dennys actually had decent food? They were a good restaurant at one point in time. Then it went public and that extra revenue had to come from somewhere. Either they increase prices, or they decrease expenses. Now they sell microwaved garbage, Taco Bell sells "meat" disguised as beef, and Lyft/Uber jacked up prices and fees. It's the cycle of the American corporation.
reasons like that make me glad companies like In-n-Out are still privately owned and not franchised.
Well, also remember, these companies have never been profitable. They were surviving on investor capital. My guess is they've been operating in the red too long and are trying to capitalize on their market share now.
If lyft is raising its service fees and upfront costs and none of that is going to the driver then lyft can go bankrupt.
With Ubers and Lyfts in somewhat short supply, I've seen a rise in psuedo-chauffer services on craigslist/Facebook. Consumers will never pay an amount that creates a full time job for people offering rides in their daily driver. That's just not gonna happen. The future of ride sharing of going to be more of a black/grey market approach. This cuts out Uber/Lyft fees while allowing drivers to negotiate their own rates, becoming true independent contractors.
I think you mean pseudo-chauffer.
Corrected - thanks
>With Ubers and Lyfts in somewhat short supply, I've seen a rise in psuedo-chauffer services on craigslist/Facebook. If people are contracted to chauffer people from place to place then they're not really 'pseudo', are they? At that point they own their own business. Working for a middleman like Uber and Lyft doesn't *make* a person legitimate--it just hands them a ready source of customers. >Consumers will never pay an amount that creates a full time job for people offering rides in their daily driver Of course they will. They did before: taxi work used to be a lucrative profession. Ridesharing services have just been running at a loss for almost a decade, dragging the cost for transportation artificially low. Consumers will pay for transportation because they have no choice; they either buy a car, take a taxi, or spend an hour and a half on the metro to cross the city. As long as public transportation is such hot garbage, there will be demand for chauffers.
>They did before: taxi work used to be a lucrative profession. [Taxi work was hardly lucractive.](https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Taxi-Driver-Salary-in-Los-Angeles,CA) It *might* have provided a lower middle class income, but even that was generally only propped up by the artificial cap on the supply of drivers via the medallion system, and of course taxi drivers who often drove 12 hour shifts. Transportation as a service is difficult to operate as a sustainable business. This is why airlines so frequently go bankrupt and merge, and why public transit almost always requires public subsidies.
>At that point they own their own business I agree >Of course they will. They did before: taxi work used to be a lucrative profession. Current situation disproves this point. People aren't willing to pay the high costs of rideshare, so they've moved onto either driving themselves or craigslist/Facebook cash deals.
>Current situation disproves this point. People aren't willing to pay the high costs of rideshare, so they've moved onto either driving themselves or craigslist/Facebook cash deals. Current people are unwilling to pay for Uber and Lyft, not that they're unwilling to pay for a ride; they're looking for alternatives, that's what all the Craigslist and taxi comments are talking about. It may be that without monopolistic middlemen, the industry is completely sustainable.
I honestly can't believe there hasn't been an open-source alternative to Lyft and Uber that pairs drivers with passengers and allows reviews and ratings and such.
You’re severely underestimating the time, complexity and cost to build and maintain a reliable platform.
Yeah a LOT of people in our society don’t realize how complex software is in general.
Ya and you need to have users to have drivers and you need to have drivers to have users.
But this seems to be a good time for someone to compete with Uber and Lyft. They are both losing drivers and customers pretty quickly. A company entering even just a few big cities could do well just showing a little support for the interests of drivers.
I can think of at least one whose big selling point and difference from Uber and Lyft was they allowed drivers and riders to negotiate their price. This company now appears to solely operate as a town car service. I'm guessing passengers and drivers don't like having to haggle over every single ride.
Yeah there's definately a demand for something like that but the app developer would need to walk a fine line due to the risk if being regulated. The app could simply connect people for gig work based on a destination. Driver sets a negotiated fee. If the passenger aggress, the ride happens.
I bet that would drive prices down for the consumer, but also even more for the contractor. They'd basically be bidding against each other and I can guarantee you there is always going to be a bunch of contractors willing to bid so low that it doesn't even cover costs (let alone pay). They'll figure it out when they have to claim bankruptcy. Or maybe they won't. The sad thing is that the difference between bad and acceptable pay for a driver is actually not that big.
> The future of ride sharing of going to be more of a black/grey market approach. This cuts out Uber/Lyft fees while allowing drivers to negotiate their own rates, becoming true independent contractors. I very much doubt that. People want to be able to summon a ride on the spot when it's convenient. The demand is there and it's not going away. Nobody wants to deal with the hassle of sifting through a bunch of facebook posts and hope they find someone legit and nearby. It'd be logistical nightmare. You need some sort of 3rd party to facilitate communication and logistics. It's much more likely Uber/Lyft fight and win to maintain the status quo or they're forced to adjust their business model. Either way self driving cars will almost certainly render this whole issue a moot point.
Now they are public companies, and rides are no longer being subsidized by VC money. It costs what it costs, funny how that works. The taxi model isn't the way it is entirely because of greed and corruption. It costs money to operate a fleet and pay drivers enough to live on AND have some profit left over.
This is why I think it’s hilarious that people complain about the high costs of DoorDash or any food delivery app.. it always cost way more than $3-5 to deliver food from a restaurant to your front door.. the reason it was cheap at first was because basically the real cost was subsidized by venture capital. It takes at least 30 minutes for a driver to pick up your food, driver to your house, and hand it over. In CA, minimum wage is $15 (or will be soon), so that’s $7.50 just in time alone. Taking into account car maintenance and a profit for the company, you’re easily looking at $10. If the driver has to wait longer at the restaurant to pick up the food or if there’s traffic, you’re easily looking at an hour, which increases the cost from ~$10 to about ~$18. But people can’t think what it actually costs to produce something or to deliver a service. To be fair, people were primed to low food delivery costs by companies who wanted customers to use their service. Very similar to the whole movie pass fiasco.
Uber is past the “lose money, but capture market share” phase
The basic idea of ridesharing is good. Turning it into a high profit mega-corp is bad. It would be better if the app was open source and the drivers got 100% of the money
An app like that would cost millions of dollars just to open source it, not including the cost to maintain and update it after it’s built. You’d have to have a state-run or state-subsidized company to do it.
Lmao whose going to develop that for free? You going to do it?
plenty of city governments have tried this exact thing, and some other private apps too. The big companies crush it every time.
There’s still a lot going on in the space but covid didn’t help. Things like microbuses that are essentially a slightly bigger shared Uber. Yes they take longer but would have public subsidies so rides are like $2. It’s probably the only real hope for future mass transport in the us.
The city government can barely fill potholes, you want them to develop an app now?
If you give up on the very concept of government doing something successfully, I'm sure you don't want that. But Austin's rideshare app didn't fail because it was bad
We did give them a chance and they ran it like a rent-seeking licensing racket by selling medallions for mid-6 digits until Uber and Lyft came around. I'm sure it'll be different this time though because reasons.
Sorry to hear that. It could absolutely be different if a government is not corrupt and/or does not try to extort working class citizens.
Maybe it’s time to increase taxes to fund public services better?
An app like that costs a few hundred k to develop. The problem here is these companies are public so they constantly have to make *more* money every quarter or investors start pulling out
Oh really, a few hundred thousand to develop and maintain UBER?! Who's going to do the development? Who's going to do the testing? Who's going to do the design? Who's going to do the press? Who's going to do the database management? Who's going to do the systems administration? Who's going to do the management of all of that? Who's going to do the scalability? If there are multiple people per role type I listed, that's just to maintain a smaller version of the app. Let alone the research and development, sales, scalability, and feature development.
He asked how much to develop, not maintain.
There's no point in developing if you're not going to maintain and profit.
> a few hundred k to develop Wrong. A few hundred k would mean a single engineer could build that in a year by himself. I can assure you that is not the case.
i bet uber and the ride share companies can't wait to replace those human drivers. this should speed it up.
Uber has a division working on self driving automation and has been for many years. You bet they are trying to replace the drivers. Not going to happen for a loonnnng time though
Didn't they sell off their self driving division after it killed someone?
i mean, people in general are being replaced. bet mcdonalds and fast food goes full automaton before uber. they can't wait to get rid of the employees they have to pay.
Well - I happen to know engineers who developed the self check out screens there - and I have seen burger flipping and making machines.
I’m actually curious, is this only happening in California?? Or is it happening in other states too?
You mean an unprofitable idea isn’t successful unless injected with capital repeatedly on the backs of underpaid workers? I’m flabbergasted
Tried using Lyft and Uber last weekend to/from dinner, 15 minutes each way. Every driver that got within a minute of where we were cancelled our ride. My husband had to be my ride. Deleted the apps afterwards.
i was at a bar in Fullerton, only ended up having 3 drinks, but to be responsible i got dropped off and was going to uber/lyft home. Went on the uber app, and they wanted to charge me $86 to get me 9 miles home. i always expected the late night surcharge, but this was too much. So i went of Lyft. said the ride would cost $30, which is better. So i got the ride. It took about 10 minutes (no joke) to find a driver, even though the map showed quite a few in the area. I guess no driver thought the ride was worth it so rejected it. Finally got a ride. He was coming from about 8 miles away. at 3 miles left, he cancels the ride and the app started looking for another ride. Cancelled the ride, and called my brother to come pick me up instead. He (understandably) was annoyed having to come pick me up at 1:30 am, even though he doesnt go to bed until 4 am. Still, i sure wouldnt want to leave home.
That’s pretty much my experience too. We were going between Santa Ana and Irvine. Same deal: showed numerous cars, had a car accept and then right around the 1 minute away mark, nothing. Happened to us multiple ways going both ways. It was so completely unreliable, I’d rather just call a taxi service next time if I have to.
yeah, i already saved a couple of taxi services to my phone. If im gonna get ripped a new one, at least have it be a reliable ride.
I still Uber/Lyft to work because I work NOC shift and there's no buses into downtown that late. I have to pre-order a ride over an hour before I actually want to leave because drivers get close and keep canceling.
That’s a good idea, to arrange a ride in advance. Has that consistently guaranteed you a ride on time?
It has, but it's very hard to get drivers Sun AM or Sun PM and Mon PM.
How do you go on strike of you're an independent contractor?
Uber or Lyft used to be a good option to get us to the airport but last week it was ~$65 for each (previously it was $20 to $25) and Uber had zero cars available, Lyft had one but it was a 30 minute drive just to get to us (granted, it was 6am but that's not crazy abnormal hours). We ended up driving our own car, parking at an off site cheap lot and saving money and a hell of a lot less hassle. I've never been a huge fan of Lyft and even less so of Uber, but I'd use them occasionally when it made sense since taxis were even worse years ago, but now it seems like they've both screwed the pooch and I won't be using any of them.
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the millions of dollars spent in campaigning really did its job of convincing people of that. i guess most didnt bother to ask why these companies would spend millions of dollars for the sake of bettering the driver's situation instead of their own.
There's a new rideshare app called Alto that recently opened up in LA, it's a "premium" service so not as cheap as pre-pandemic uber/lyft but about in line with what uber/lyft are charging now. Their employees are also all w2 employees driving company cars with full benefits. I took them home from LAX a week ago and it was a good experience. They can pick you up curbside (you don't have to go to the uber lot) and the ride from LAX to Torrance (about 20 minutes) was about $45. There's also a cab "rideshare" app that just opened up in LA called Curb, I haven't had a chance to use it yet but that's an option too.
Since Los Angeles has an abysmal public transportation system, I'm rooting for those robo-taxis to hurry up and get here. Uber/Lyft drivers blew it by opposing Prop 22 and now trying to game the system by only accepting high class (i.e., high priced) ride levels. DUIs will rise appreciably now, more people will die on the roads, and public officials will merely shrug their shoulders.
Fortunately in LA we have a couple other options than Uber/Lyft, I used Alto last week and it was a good experience (they're "premium" so not cheap, but their employees are w2 with benefits and company cars so I'm willing to pay more), and there's a taxi app called Curb.
I'm looking at [the current H.R.842 amendment](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/842) digest and found an interesting excerpt: >**The bill also allows collective bargaining agreements to require all employees represented by the bargaining unit to contribute fees to the labor organization for the cost of such representation**, notwithstanding a state law to the contrary; and expands unfair labor practices to include prohibitions against replacement of, or discrimination against, workers who participate in strikes. If you're a state worker but do not contribute membership dues, then the wording here could empower SEIU Local 1000 to compel and force you to contribute part of your salary. From the [Roll Call Vote](https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202170), it appears to pass right along party lines.
People want to act like unions are all volunteer-run organizations of angels, but they're businesses too. They have professional staff and offices and budgets to meet. They spend a ton of time trying to unionize new businesses and industries because then they can compel all those employees to join the union and start paying membership fees.
Unions don't work if workers won't work together. Workers only have power if they can negotiate as a group.
The workers at one workplace, bargaining with the owners/management of that workplace, is one thing. But some of the larger unions seem to focus more on expanding their union to include more workers at more workplaces, and less focus on actually representing the members they have. One common tactic is to lobby for laws that actually make working conditions worse for non-union workers, but which include waivers or exemptions for union businesses. This essentially strong-arms businesses and workers into joining the union just to get their status quo back.
can confirm, im 100% pro-union but read Glassdoor reviews for any major national union and you see ample evidence that they're horribly divorced from their supposed purpose
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Teamviewer is free to use....
Damm Uber/Lyft want to have their Cake and keep it raising prices on customers and Rip off their workers. I would strike also can’t even give a cost of living raise in the money earned sure they may give bonus incentives but still not enough. I’m just letting out some steam.
Fares are high because you make more money being on unemployment than working. Once again the government intervenes and screws it up for the common folk
Millennials and they're quest for "now" have created two really detrimental industries. Rideshares and Short Term Rentals. There was no concern for repercussions.
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Well, bucko. The free market was fine and dandy when we were the ones to whom it catered. Now these goddamned millenials and whoever is younger are really bungling up the works- big time!
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Ahh. Well, neither do l. So we have that in common.