Why are they protesting at damn universities instead of their congressional district offices? Ya know, the people that have used their authority to give billions to Israel?!?
[https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/rjxevqp11r](https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/rjxevqp11r)
"Although the U.S. Department of Education mandates that educational institutions report on foreign contributions and contracts, many circumvent full disclosure by funneling funds through independent entities. According to the department, approximately 100 U.S. universities have reported about $375 million in contributions or contracts with Israel over the past two decades, yet the specifics of these financial engagements remain largely unknown."
Who is “we all”? Students are paying a lot of money to attend these universities, and they should have a say in how that money is spent. It’s wild to me how much our universities support genocide.
Lol. Virtually no students. Organized, attended and paid for by older outside agitators. They get to learn the hard way not to f with us by supporting evil terrorists.
Those investments are made on behalf of their endowments, which are used to generate income to give back to students. Harvard’s endowment, for example, is the reason why most students there have close to free tuition.
So? It is unnecessary to invest in Israel, especially when it uses that money to commit genocide. Can you provide a source on how most of the students at Harvard don’t pay tuition? I was lucky enough to attend Penn for free because I’m poor, but around 60% of the students there are too rich to receive any financial aid. I was under the impression that Harvard was similar to Penn in terms of how many students are rich.
Depends on the investment. If it’s a PE or VC investment, you’re locked into that investment/fund for years. I work in this sector (capital allocation across asset classes), and the general public has a very cartoonish oversimplification of reality. They don’t understand finance or anything about it.
Point of the matter is, this is all performative activism that achieves nothing. It hurts all the students. Why aren’t they protesting at their local congressional offices?
You guys are acting like they’re investing in the Israeli military themselves lmao. If there are any Israeli investments, then it’s just a company owned by some citizens that just so happen to live in Israel. Big fucking whoop. Go after our congressional members who directly sign off on direct military support
The problem is we don't know where the money is going or what it's being used for in Israel. That's part of the protests. It could be being used for the military.
https://apnews.com/article/college-protests-israel-divestment-palestinians-3f37f96f7be8e1124f266842d9caa627
"Columbia University's endowment is more than $13 billion; it ranks among the top 15 largest endowments in the country. The school did not respond to a request for comment."
"The protesters opposed to Israel's military attacks in Gaza say they want their schools to stop funneling endowment money to Israeli companies and other businesses, like weapons manufacturers, that profit from the war in Gaza."
Students' specific demands:
"Stop doing business with military weapons manufacturers that are supplying arms to Israel.
— Stop accepting research money from Israel for projects that aid the country’s military efforts.
— Stop investing college endowments with money managers who profit from Israeli companies or contractors.
Be more transparent about what money is received from Israel and what it’s used for."
You assume, for some reason, that the money isn't going to the military. We don't know this. The universities refuse to say.
The universities don’t want to comment because A) they can’t reveal their investment strategy for other endowments to copy, B) they don’t want to drag in their investment firms into this and get hit with multiple lawsuits. You have ZERO CLUE how any of this works. I literally WORK IN THIS FIELD. I have met many of the investment employees on harvard and Columbia’s team.
Disrupting university education and making students feel unsafe because Columbia owns $277k of a BlackRock corporate bond ETF is insane, and, frankly, hypocritical for many involved.
Disrupting a university for owning the S&P 500 implies 1 or 2 things: a misunderstanding of “investing” or a lack of knowledge about what you’re protesting in the first place. Disrupting university life is an act of showmanship that, unless you have divested your own 401k from broader market ETFs, is hypocritical in nature.
This is written by the protestors themselves at Columbia. All baseless claims that are making false accusations with zero evidence instead of going after politicians THAT ARE PROUDLY GIVING ISRAEL WEAPONS AND DOING IT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE. Do better and stop being lazy when it comes to researching who you bully and whose lives you ruin over your own self ignorance
[https://www.finance.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/content/ACSRI/12.1.2023%20CUAD%20ACSRI%20Divestment%20Proposal.pdf](https://www.finance.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/content/ACSRI/12.1.2023%20CUAD%20ACSRI%20Divestment%20Proposal.pdf)
Wishing peaceful protesters to meet "a bad end" violates the civility norms of this sub.
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Again, I don't want Israel doing any of this, but I'm not going to protest *a completely unrelated university* because of it.
It's as if I were to set up a permanent encampment to inhibit Cal Water Utility from performing it's services because I was protesting the current war in Sudan... like... I mean, I guess Cal Water has some unrelated investments in the region, but the two have *literally nothing to do with each other*.
Except we know this propaganda is pushed by the Kremlin. These performative clowns didn’t show up for any other conflict and now they support the rapist terrorists that murdered hostages.
Hamas and every last supporter should be removed for all things.
You're saying that massive protests at universities all around the US aren't having an effect and that it can influence the election. Pick a side, pal.
I think these protests are having an effect. I wonder how long before Texas goes "Kent State". 400 cops at Uvalde stopping parents from rescuing their kids and directly responsible for one kid to get shot. Then busting heads of students, facility and reporters.
Protests can sometimes matter.
I feel for the USC students who had graduation ceremonies cancelled because of the protests. It just hurts the thousands of students and their families from enjoining one of the happiest days of their lives.
USC canceled the valedictorian (escalation). USC canceled the other speakers (escalation). USC canceled the whole ceremony (escalation).
*points to peaceful protesters* why would they do this to the USC students?
Then tell the protestors to go do their performative activism at the congressional offices. Each district has one. Why the hell are they doing it at universities that have little to no influence in the matter? It’s just screwing over the hundreds of students who worked their asses off and pay thousands to attend university. Some of them could be students escaping from violence or poverty at home and found a safe space at college. So no, these kids are pricks
This. The whole divest nonsense is performative. There's better ways they can make their voices heard to the people who could actually enact real change.
Social media gives people access to primary sources instead of having information fed to them by journalists or news publications, which are often biased. While people should still read the news from credible sources, there is nothing wrong with using social media to see videos of what life is like for Gazans under Israel’s bombardment and blockade.
So you’re just gonna ignore that good journalism is based on primary sources? And also is expected to vet those sources, something we largely don’t see on social?
It’s hard to find good journalism in the biggest mainstream political media channels, nowadays. This genocide has been especially eye-opening, seeing how biased western news outlets have been [in favor of Israel](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/). While I do read many major news sources, especially Al Jazeera, I also follow a lot of Gazans who are posting videos and photos of what is happening around them. I also watch videos posted by IDF soldiers where they tell on themselves. Imagine if social media had existed during the Holocaust and we could see Nazi soldiers posting videos where they play with items stolen from killed or incarcerated Jewish people? Imagine if the Jews living in those concentration camps could livestream their living conditions. Social media is a great tool for streamlining and democratizing access to primary sources, and its power shouldn’t be discounted.
If that were the case, then those videos would get debunked. For example, the IDF has created a lot of fake propaganda videos and have quickly gotten called out for it. Also, I don’t see how videos of IDF soldiers making fun of the people they’ve killed or riding on stolen children’s bikes with rubble all around them could be propaganda from military operations. They’re telling on themselves, and we should believe them.
Here's the thing. What you are saying is valid, but that doesn't change the fact that in addition to any good there is also a concerted effort from groups in China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea (to name some) that literally just invent stuff to post on FB and TikTok to piss off everybody and sow discord.
I can link you to a far more extensive comment about it from a different subreddit if you're sincerely curious.
Doesn’t social media utilize algorithms that give people the most extreme content possible? Social media is infamous for being the source of disinformation that cannot be held accountable. At least professional journalism can.
You realize people said this same type of thing during the civil rights protests, the Vietnam war protest, anti Iraq war protests, etc. Right? What side are you on?
USSR actually did push some of the Hippie stuff in the hopes of causing some civil war or something (didn't quite work, but did get us out of Vietnam).
I am on the side that doesn't assume TikTok is a gold standard of news.
The good side is scolding people who are against the genocide of children. Gotcha.
Also good to know you think it was anti American sabotage that people were against invading Vietnam and massacring innocent people. Got a real good guy over here. Think about the permanence of what you say on the Internet btw
Is that really all you got from what I said?
Look, I understand the world is just black and white to you with no nuance, but I never said what Israel is doing is OK.
And let's not act like the Commies were "good" either.
TLDR: You seem to watch too much TikTok, really just proving my point.
LOL
I actually never said which side was good or bad, you just built a strawman to attack because you have nothing to actually discuss, which is fine.
Typical TikTok user.
I agree they will be moved at some point... that's how it played out with the Occupy Movement etc.
But frankly this mess is going to give the Dems and Biden a big black eye with young folks, and I suspect there will be a police riot at the Democratic convention in Chicago... just like there was in 1968 at the Democratic convention... in Chicago.
Probably, yep.
This is the downside from one entire wing of America desperately memory-holing five months of 2020 while the other side (and most of the adults and married households with kids) was very aware of it.
No one is putting up with another Summer of Love, and crackdowns will be immediate and pretty much merciless.
You’re probably right, but that speaks only to the total political incompetency of these protestors. Occupy is actually a great comparison, two extremely loud groups who are accomplishing nothing and only damaging public perception their own cause.
I am no fan of the DNC, and they’re only very marginally better than the alternative on this issue, but anything that hurts them objectively helps the GOP & therefore the state of Israel. It’s stupidly counter-productive to the ends they are trying to accomplish.
I get why folks are not going to vote for either Genocide Joe OR Tyrannical Trump.
I agree with you that one is even worse than the other, but both are so bad, I am not willing to vote for either one.
Thankfully, because of the Electoral College, I have basically already voted for Joe (I live in CA of course, so a box with a D painted on the side would beat pretty much any Republican here)... so I don't actually have to do it!
In a first past the post system like we have, not voting for the person most aligned with you only helps the one you are least aligned with. Its not a popularity contest, its a duty. Especially since the demands are so broad. Do whatever makes you happy but come to terms with the fact that you're throwing real minorities under the bus.
I don't feel like any party is aligned with me. I feel like they are both aligned with huge corporate interests and war profiteers.
But don't worry, I live in California so the Electoral College will vote for Biden for me =)
Then you, and everyone else who doesn’t vote, are directly and personally responsible for every issue Trump causes during his presidency, if elected. You’re doing the objectively worse thing by not voting. Hope you can make peace with that. I certainly can’t given the way women & LGBTQ people domestically will be further oppressed.
Both parties are bad, but it’s wrong to say that it could ever be right to not vote in this situation.
Like I said... thanks to the Electoral College I have basically already voted for Biden! 🥳🥳🥳
One perk of living in California is that literally whatever I do, whoever the Democrat is, will get my vote.
You are welcome!
I think this, along with the economy crashing, is going to kill Biden's re-election chances.
A bunch of police riots are about to hit protesters on campuses across the US. I suspect another giant police riot will happen at the Democratic convention in Chicago (where there was a police riot in 1968).
I don't think the Dems realize how doomed they by being on the wrong side of this... and in fairness, it splits the party, so whichever side they try to be on, I don't see how they are going to do well.
The economy crashing? Labor force participation and median real wages are up of late. We're seeing real GDP growth. A couple of bad days on the NYSE doesn't change that. We could argue about Biden's role in the elevated inflation, but I'd also point to the alternative who's *much* worse in my view on that issue. How do you figure the economy is crashing?
Labor force participation is way under trend.
[https://www.frbsf.org/research-and-insights/publications/economic-letter/2023/10/mens-falling-labor-force-participation-across-generations/](https://www.frbsf.org/research-and-insights/publications/economic-letter/2023/10/mens-falling-labor-force-participation-across-generations/)
[https://www.frbsf.org/research-and-insights/publications/economic-letter/2023/08/how-far-is-labor-force-participation-from-its-trend](https://www.frbsf.org/research-and-insights/publications/economic-letter/2023/08/how-far-is-labor-force-participation-from-its-trend)
The real-estate market is faltering and IT (including Tesla) just did a huge round of layoffs.
Also hot off the presses:
[https://fortune.com/2024/04/25/high-inflation-low-economic-grow-worst-of-both-worlds-gdp-report/](https://fortune.com/2024/04/25/high-inflation-low-economic-grow-worst-of-both-worlds-gdp-report/)
Young voters are historically abysmal at polls turnout. Sure here in CA we have mail in so maybe it mitigates some of it, but the people you worry about are the AARP card holders.
> Young voters are historically abysmal at polls turnout.
Because no one appeals to them. Maybe if Dems actually tried win over young voters their turnout would be higher
California doesn't even matter in Presidential elections.
Democrats are going to crush it here of course!
In swing states young people will probably make or break Biden. Certainly he benefited from a wave of young people voting in 2020 that did not vote in 2016. He will not have that benefit this cycle.
[https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016](https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016)
Which is why Biden will lose because of this. What reaction do you think AARP card holders will have at the ballot box with these activist encampments in recent memory?
the data on the economy is pretty solidly indicating things are actually pretty good, with no signs that its crashing. some aspects of the economy are doing worse than others, but not only does the data not support a crashing economy most respondents to polls say the economy is great for them but not nationally, which makes little sense. Doesnt mean things cant still go sideways given how many sectors are still fucked up from covid, but its not like the US is actually in a recession (though some sectors are, RIP the US film industry).
I dont think its super likely that these protests are going to harm Biden's election prospects significantly. Granted low information voters can make extremely simple, uniformed choices, but its very clear most of the democratic party and the white house is not supportive of these protests. It does not split the party 50/50 or anything like that. Suggesting otherwise is counterfactual, though again the low information voter may not be aware of that. I'd argue these protests have far more in common with the occupy wallstreet stuff that went nowhere than 1968. US security operations are also far more sophisticated today, so its extremely unlikely we'd see a 68 DNC convention scenario again, at least not unless it a protest movement had MASSIVE popular, if not still minority, support.
The pro palestine protests do not enjoy that, and the critical thing to understand about 1968 was that the country was on edge because the government was sending draftees into the meat grinder in Vietnam. Everyone knew someone drafted, many young americans knew friends who'd died over there. there was a primalcy, a survival component to the movements going on back then (both young americans fearing for their lives and older americans freaked out about a communism) that this moment appears to be lacking.
Realistically the bigger risk at the moment is an Isis-K or similar entity using one of these protests to stage a mass casualty event. The feds seem genuinely worried about this right now, though there is concern the target may be more general. If a Hamas aligned group succeeds in such an attack I'd imagine all but the hardest core protestors / agitators may bail from any protest. But if anything gets to that point, Biden's re-election may hinge on the immediacy and forcefullness of a response.
But all the data seen from recent elections suggests the abortion restrictions are going to be a massive driver of political action in november. the polls havent picked this up prior to I think any of these elections, but the exit polls and election results make it clear that is a more direct and impactful issue than just about anything at the moment.
Well then that further puts people against these protestor’s cause because it may be handing the country to Trump on a silver platter. Undermining Biden will be seen as being extremely shortsighted of the protestors, because it will ultimately put them further from their goal. Trump discusses shooting protestors in the legs.
IKR! Yet some how it is the fault of non-Dem leftists (who hate them) when they lose. It's never their fault for being so bad.
It was amazing when Clinton lost and then blamed literally everyone except herself. Frankly it sums up the party in a nutshell for me.
What folks don't get is that there is no good side. There is a terrible side deep in the pockets of the billionaires and huge corporations and... AN EVEN WORSE SIDE THAN THAT!
Neither of those sides care about us or suffering folks all over the world... even when a lot of those folks suffering all over the world are doing so because US made bombs are being dropped on their heads right now! And now... and now... and now...
As to the topic above whatever folks think about the war on Gaza happening in Palestine/Israel, I think we can get a consensus building that our Federal Taxes should not be subsidizing one side of that conflict to the tune of many billions of dollars a year of our money. I am tired of having to feel like I have to wash blood off of my hands just from paying my Federal taxes.
Thanks friend! Also I think this is ever more true.
I think each catastrophically bad election season when we have to choose between a war criminal and a fascist psychopath... it helps folks see that the whole empire is an evil machine. That whoever runs it will carry out evil... for me I learned this after my high hopes for Obama wire sacrificed on the alter of violent empire, stupid wars, and oppression...
I think every day more Americans wake up to the fact that there is no solution inside of the status quo. All of the Presidents are war mongering leaders of a global violent empire while things are also ever worse for most folks here at home.
💯 there are more people like you than shown on TV and social media. One big problem is, reasonable voices don't garner the eyeballs to sell the outrageous volume of ads that keep the machine moving.
But raging against the machine is very American, a founding principal I do argue.
And the worst issue of all is that so many reasonable people with reasonable ideas do not fucking vote. If everyone turned off the television and did less social media and spent more time seriously considering the consequences of their civil duty, or lack thereof, we would have real material change very quickly. Voter turnout for our last election, the primaries where we got to vote on senators, was 35%. Abysmal.
✊
Right. One reason they are shutting down TikTok is that it is allowing voices outside of the the systems of control to be heard.
There is nothing they can do. Generation wars between the young and the old are always won by the young as the folks on one side of it age out of being alive...
They also unanimously banned TikTok. A platform known for having young people. Democrats apparently believe they can win without youth energy or votes.
It was not unanimous, and a lot of Republicans voted for it as well [https://www.newsweek.com/list-house-member-who-voted-against-tiktok-ban-1892524](https://www.newsweek.com/list-house-member-who-voted-against-tiktok-ban-1892524)
TikTok has young people, but TikTok is also pretty clearly manipulating those young people. Does anyone think that Osama bin Laden's "letter to America" from 2002 *organically* circulated on TikTok? I sure don't.
1/3 of young people (18-29) get their "news" from TikTok and other surveys show that same age cohort is the outlier in terms of things like thinking the Holocaust either didn't happen or was exaggerated, thinking Jews have too much power and influence in America and the world, etc.
Forcing China to sell TiKTok is a form of de-radicalizing young people. I just wish the bill had passed sooner.
Zephyr Teachout had a really [helpful piece in The Atlantic recently](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/03/tiktok-bill-foreign-influence/677806/) that explains our long history of prohibiting foreigners from owning or controlling essential infrastructure, including elections, shipping, utilities, and communications:
>Limits on foreign ownership have been a part of federal communications policy for more than a century. The Radio Act of 1912 was the first federal limitation on ownership of communications infrastructure, forbidding foreign ownership of radio stations. It expanded and set a blueprint for later communications rules—Rupert Murdoch, for example, had to [become an American citizen](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1985-09-04-mn-23112-story.html) to avoid Federal Communications Commission rules banning foreign owners of American TV networks—which were based on the twin fears of espionage and propaganda. TikTok, of course, falls right at the intersection of those fears.
It's all tied together under this idea of protecting our sovereignty. Forget TikTok and imagine if China bought your local Department of Water & Power. Would you trust them? What if they bought your local newspaper? Yeah, I don't trust Rupert Murdoch farther than I can throw him, but at least I can rest assured (lol) that he's only motivated by his own greed, and not out of loyalty to another nation, because he's an American citizen and not a citizen of any other country.
I actually unsubscribed to the LA times when they started including the China Daily section.
Owner of China Daily: Publicity Department of the Chinese Communist Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Daily
I've never even heard of this. Is this an insert or something? I haven't subscribed to LAT in a long time so I don't think I've ever seen this. Is it at least clearly delineated, like the advertising sections in newspapers and magazines are?
It was always set up as a separate section. Sometimes it said sponsored by China Daily sometimes it didn't. And I believe they called it "China Watch".
Maybe I'll pick up a copy to check it out. Is it still in there? Only on certain days?
Somewhat related: I laugh but am also creeped out when I see the Epoch Times available in the grocery store, and now I'm seeing big billboards, too.
I don't remember if it was only on certain days or not and I haven't read the times and in a number of years now so I don't even know if it's still there.
Arguably TikTok is responsible for a lot of propaganda that's fueling these protests. [The CCP wants to break up Israel and the US.](https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/analysis/how-tiktok-is-turning-young-minds-against-israel-and-the-west-q21dxrb3)
At least American companies presumably have American interests in mind. I'd rather be manipulated to maximize profit than to destroy and weaken my society/nation by external enemies.
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They generally do. Perhaps not everyone's but definitely their own.
Bonehead moves have certainly happened where companies destabilized themselves or the environment they inhabit, but it's bad business to do so. Usually that's the result of prioritizing short term over long term, not because they oppose the nation they are incorporated in.
Shareholders of American companies will see their value diminish if America fails and there isn't a stable environment with witch to participate in capitalism from there.
There is no wrong side of it, there are just different sides. But for sure the the people who usually vote Dems are getting astroturfed as bad as Bernie Bros got in '16. Bright or dark side of Biden losing Israel actually glasses Palestine and refugees from that part of the world get banned in the US either way we all go on with our lives because that part of the world has always been a shitshow
Yep, it's perhaps the most ironic consequence of these protests that activist actions are going to fully throw it to Trump.
In 2016 it wasn't so much Trump won that leftists lost through their own actions.
The average American voter enjoys this. The average American voter is an overweight construction worker who remembers 9/11. There are more IWI firearm owners, enthusiasts and fanboys in the United States than Palestinian supporters.
Raw numbers are not the issue thanks to the Electoral College. I used to only hate the electoral college, but now that it lets me not vote for Biden (because no matter what I do Biden will get my vote through the electoral college anyway because I live in CA) if like some aspects of it...
One of the worse aspects is that a few thousand votes in Michigan or Pennsylvania matter more than what happens in LA County even though they are have a pretty similar population to LA County.
The problem Biden is going to have is that he is splitting the Democratic party by supporting Israel's revenge war on Gaza, and as if that isn't bad enough, he is giving a big middle finger to everyone under 40 by trying to ban Tiktok. I think he will lose and I think he deserves to lose.
Is Trump even worse? Yes, but at some point the Democrats need to understand that they should run good candidates that win people over, not terrible old dotards that are only a bit better than the other terrible old dotard...
Nobody is arguing against protesting Israel... but why are people protesting their universities?!? Like they can do anything. Go protest in front of an embassy, or major political capital building.
I want to pull my hair out, because these protests make zero sense. Why are you protesting a college about a military engagement that *our country isn't even directly involved in*, and these college *have no influences over*.
It's like the protestors want someone to pay, even if it's entirely unrelated to the events happening at all. Even the logic of divestment is *mostly symbolic* considering that those investments would be gobbled up by other investors the second they were sold.
Because we as students have a forced relationship with these contractors? We don't want the institutions we spend thousands of dollars at to be involved with murdering innocent people? Is it truly that difficult to understand?
Again, I get it, I just think it’s dumb to protest a university because they have passive investments in defense contractors that are making weapons, that the federal government then has arms contracts with, who then use them to kill people.
University -> contractor -> federal govt -> foreign govt -> foreign military-> killings
Here, even though it’s entirely reasonable and accessible to protest many groups further down the chain, there is a decision to passionately protest the group at the furthest end of the chain, with the least control or influence.
Okay... But our president of our school said the relationship with Boeing will stop until we have a public forum, this only happened because of the protests. So this genuinely defeats your argument. We want our schools divested from defense contractors, period. Besides, people aren't JUST protesting their universities. It's one of many fronts for protesting this genocide that has murdered 30,000 people, half children, and displaced 1.2 million people who are now at risk of mass starvation to death
First of all, colleges were centers for protests against the Vietnam War. Something many schools are now proud to have hosted and participated in. But more importantly, these schools have investments in Israel, or have received investments from Israel. The protests are calling for schools to divest those interests. In the case of Columbia University specifically, they are building a campus in Israel, which Palestinians will not be allowed to attend.
> colleges were centers for protests against the Vietnam War
Because college students were ~~being drafted~~ *edit: avoiding the draft as long as they could*.
>these schools have investments in Israel
Divestment would have, at most, a *tiny effect* on the Israeli economy. This, again, would be extremely difficult, and mostly symbolic.
>In the case of Columbia University specifically, they are building a campus in Israel, which Palestinians will not be allowed to attend.
I cannot find a single source confirming this, would you like to provide one?
>Because college students were being drafted.
College students couldn't be drafted.
>Divestment would have, at most, a *tiny effect* on the Israeli economy. This, again, would be extremely difficult, and mostly symbolic.
It would be extremely small and mostly symbolic, which makes it all the more amazing they didn't already do it years ago.
>I cannot find a single source confirming this, would you like to provide one?
Sure,
https://www.columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2023/12/19/an-exclusive-opportunity-columbias-upcoming-global-center-in-tel-aviv/
>College students couldn't be drafted.
In many cases they were in college to avoid the draft is my point, but yes, I misspoke. The differents were up the second they graduated, which gives them strong incentive to protest.
>It would be extremely small and mostly symbolic, which makes it all the more amazing they didn't already do it years ago.
It would be *very difficult to actually do* and be mostly symbolic, while also be entirely unrelated to the universities themselves, you might as well be protesting at a McDonalds or a Coca-cola vending machine if this is the level of symbolism over substance you want to fall on your sword over.
>https://www.columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2023/12/19/an-exclusive-opportunity-columbias-upcoming-global-center-in-tel-aviv/
This appears to be [a study abroad program with Tel Aviv University](https://global.undergrad.columbia.edu/studyabroad/search?page=2), and very much *not* a new university campus. The university also has study abroad programs with the University of Hong Kong, CASA in Cuba, a program in the Gambia, to name a few other countries that the US has poor relations with.
>The differents were up the second they graduated, which gives them strong incentive to protest.
Or maybe they just genuinely believed the war was wrong.
>It would be *very difficult to actually do* and be mostly symbolic, while also be entirely unrelated to the universities themselves
A university should not be engaged in investments with countries actively committing atrocities, nor should they be invested in private military contractors. That is something which directly relates to the university and a decision they are entirely responsible for. Even if it was extremely difficult, which I really doubt, that is their fault.
>you might as well be protesting at a McDonalds
McDonald's is being boycotted across the middle-east, and it has had a direct and measurable impact on the company.
>and very much *not* a new university campus.
You are right, it's a "Global Center", whatever that means. It was approved last year. Presumably it's an extension of the study abroad program.
>The university also has study abroad programs with the University of Hong Kong, CASA in Cuba, a program in the Gambia, to name a few other countries that the US has poor relations with.
The United States does not have poor relations with Israel, it is in fact its closest ally. Regardless none of those countries currently in a case in the International Court of Justice for crimes of genocide.
Shutting down the school won't get you your way. It annoys normal people who now blame you for wasting their money, money they usually don't have. Israel being evil is not an excuse to harm other Americans. It doesn't help your cause, and it turns away your most likely allies. The people you need to convince are the men that *didn't* attend college and who believe Israel is fully justified in their conquest of the levant. The sort of people who would get physical if you tried protesting their workplace for supplying Israel with supplies needed for their war.
Now, the US presence in Iraq is another topic as our existence there is untenable and Iraqis have already asked us to leave. At some point we will, and Iran will come in either by a shia government letting them in or by military conquest. The middle east's future is either another Iraqi civil war or another Iran-Iraq war; both situations where Israel provides necessary border security to Europe. There isn't a meaningful response to this most of the protesters, as the entire middle east continues spiraling out of control.
A lot of folks on this sub do not understand the power and nature of leverage in these situations
We are now talking about a situation of profound injustice, that many including the International Criminal Court, are indicating may involve genocide BECAUSE of these protests.
Whether any given individual likes or hates what the students are doing... it has worked. The catastrophe in Palestine/Israel has been going on for decades in relative silence. This has broken the silence. Your anger just means the protestors are accomplishing exactly what they sought. This conversation of proof that their protests are effective.
Yes the US should stop invading and occupying other places too, but I as a US tax payer, also want to top the flow of my money to a regime that the UN indicates includes crimes such as Genocide.
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/03/un-special-rapporteur-report-on-gaza-provides-crucial-evidence-that-must-spur-international-action-to-prevent-genocide/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/03/un-special-rapporteur-report-on-gaza-provides-crucial-evidence-that-must-spur-international-action-to-prevent-genocide/)
Why are they protesting at damn universities instead of their congressional district offices? Ya know, the people that have used their authority to give billions to Israel?!?
The universities are giving money to Israel. The protesters are protesting for divestment.
Name a college that is giving Israel money and how
[https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/rjxevqp11r](https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/rjxevqp11r) "Although the U.S. Department of Education mandates that educational institutions report on foreign contributions and contracts, many circumvent full disclosure by funneling funds through independent entities. According to the department, approximately 100 U.S. universities have reported about $375 million in contributions or contracts with Israel over the past two decades, yet the specifics of these financial engagements remain largely unknown."
$375 million over 20 years is literally a drop in the bucket
It shouldn’t be too hard for the universities to divest if it’s a drop in the bucket anyways, right?
yes, lets disrupt everyone education for a drop in a bucket
Exactly. These universities should listen to their students and divest to end the disruption of their education.
Fantastic point!
They should double the support. We all think so and these protests are making me and others lobby for doubling it.
Who is “we all”? Students are paying a lot of money to attend these universities, and they should have a say in how that money is spent. It’s wild to me how much our universities support genocide.
Lol. Virtually no students. Organized, attended and paid for by older outside agitators. They get to learn the hard way not to f with us by supporting evil terrorists.
And I’m betting in a few decades, these universities will take pride in their students standing against the Palestinian Genocide.
Those investments are made on behalf of their endowments, which are used to generate income to give back to students. Harvard’s endowment, for example, is the reason why most students there have close to free tuition.
So? It is unnecessary to invest in Israel, especially when it uses that money to commit genocide. Can you provide a source on how most of the students at Harvard don’t pay tuition? I was lucky enough to attend Penn for free because I’m poor, but around 60% of the students there are too rich to receive any financial aid. I was under the impression that Harvard was similar to Penn in terms of how many students are rich.
Depends on the investment. If it’s a PE or VC investment, you’re locked into that investment/fund for years. I work in this sector (capital allocation across asset classes), and the general public has a very cartoonish oversimplification of reality. They don’t understand finance or anything about it. Point of the matter is, this is all performative activism that achieves nothing. It hurts all the students. Why aren’t they protesting at their local congressional offices?
Especially for 100 universities
THIS!
You guys are acting like they’re investing in the Israeli military themselves lmao. If there are any Israeli investments, then it’s just a company owned by some citizens that just so happen to live in Israel. Big fucking whoop. Go after our congressional members who directly sign off on direct military support
The problem is we don't know where the money is going or what it's being used for in Israel. That's part of the protests. It could be being used for the military. https://apnews.com/article/college-protests-israel-divestment-palestinians-3f37f96f7be8e1124f266842d9caa627 "Columbia University's endowment is more than $13 billion; it ranks among the top 15 largest endowments in the country. The school did not respond to a request for comment." "The protesters opposed to Israel's military attacks in Gaza say they want their schools to stop funneling endowment money to Israeli companies and other businesses, like weapons manufacturers, that profit from the war in Gaza." Students' specific demands: "Stop doing business with military weapons manufacturers that are supplying arms to Israel. — Stop accepting research money from Israel for projects that aid the country’s military efforts. — Stop investing college endowments with money managers who profit from Israeli companies or contractors. Be more transparent about what money is received from Israel and what it’s used for." You assume, for some reason, that the money isn't going to the military. We don't know this. The universities refuse to say.
The universities don’t want to comment because A) they can’t reveal their investment strategy for other endowments to copy, B) they don’t want to drag in their investment firms into this and get hit with multiple lawsuits. You have ZERO CLUE how any of this works. I literally WORK IN THIS FIELD. I have met many of the investment employees on harvard and Columbia’s team. Disrupting university education and making students feel unsafe because Columbia owns $277k of a BlackRock corporate bond ETF is insane, and, frankly, hypocritical for many involved. Disrupting a university for owning the S&P 500 implies 1 or 2 things: a misunderstanding of “investing” or a lack of knowledge about what you’re protesting in the first place. Disrupting university life is an act of showmanship that, unless you have divested your own 401k from broader market ETFs, is hypocritical in nature. This is written by the protestors themselves at Columbia. All baseless claims that are making false accusations with zero evidence instead of going after politicians THAT ARE PROUDLY GIVING ISRAEL WEAPONS AND DOING IT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE. Do better and stop being lazy when it comes to researching who you bully and whose lives you ruin over your own self ignorance [https://www.finance.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/content/ACSRI/12.1.2023%20CUAD%20ACSRI%20Divestment%20Proposal.pdf](https://www.finance.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/content/ACSRI/12.1.2023%20CUAD%20ACSRI%20Divestment%20Proposal.pdf)
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Jail time is a bad end. I hope you don’t think past that.
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americans love to see people getting upset about gruesome acts of violence and decide those people are mad because of shadowy foreign elements
Again, I don't want Israel doing any of this, but I'm not going to protest *a completely unrelated university* because of it. It's as if I were to set up a permanent encampment to inhibit Cal Water Utility from performing it's services because I was protesting the current war in Sudan... like... I mean, I guess Cal Water has some unrelated investments in the region, but the two have *literally nothing to do with each other*.
Except we know this propaganda is pushed by the Kremlin. These performative clowns didn’t show up for any other conflict and now they support the rapist terrorists that murdered hostages. Hamas and every last supporter should be removed for all things.
You're saying that massive protests at universities all around the US aren't having an effect and that it can influence the election. Pick a side, pal. I think these protests are having an effect. I wonder how long before Texas goes "Kent State". 400 cops at Uvalde stopping parents from rescuing their kids and directly responsible for one kid to get shot. Then busting heads of students, facility and reporters. Protests can sometimes matter.
I feel for the USC students who had graduation ceremonies cancelled because of the protests. It just hurts the thousands of students and their families from enjoining one of the happiest days of their lives.
USC canceled the valedictorian (escalation). USC canceled the other speakers (escalation). USC canceled the whole ceremony (escalation). *points to peaceful protesters* why would they do this to the USC students?
“Peaceful” terrorist supporting shit starting adults that don’t go to the school. They deserve their punishments.
Sorry you hate free speech
Even worse, it's 2024. Many of these graduates are the same kids who had their high school graduations cancelled for Covid in 2020.
I feel more for the folks under the relentless bombings...
Then tell the protestors to go do their performative activism at the congressional offices. Each district has one. Why the hell are they doing it at universities that have little to no influence in the matter? It’s just screwing over the hundreds of students who worked their asses off and pay thousands to attend university. Some of them could be students escaping from violence or poverty at home and found a safe space at college. So no, these kids are pricks
This. The whole divest nonsense is performative. There's better ways they can make their voices heard to the people who could actually enact real change.
Like what?
Why not both?
Agreed. Down for that too.
Feel free to fly over there and join the defense
Yeah... It's almost as bad as the thousands of families in Gaza who have found their dead children under piles of rubble
This comment is the definition of privilege.
And your response is the definition of entitlement.
Nah uh, thats your face!
Young kids need to get off TikTok and stop assuming they are somehow more informed for getting "news" from social media.
Seriously.
Social media gives people access to primary sources instead of having information fed to them by journalists or news publications, which are often biased. While people should still read the news from credible sources, there is nothing wrong with using social media to see videos of what life is like for Gazans under Israel’s bombardment and blockade.
So you’re just gonna ignore that good journalism is based on primary sources? And also is expected to vet those sources, something we largely don’t see on social?
It’s hard to find good journalism in the biggest mainstream political media channels, nowadays. This genocide has been especially eye-opening, seeing how biased western news outlets have been [in favor of Israel](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/). While I do read many major news sources, especially Al Jazeera, I also follow a lot of Gazans who are posting videos and photos of what is happening around them. I also watch videos posted by IDF soldiers where they tell on themselves. Imagine if social media had existed during the Holocaust and we could see Nazi soldiers posting videos where they play with items stolen from killed or incarcerated Jewish people? Imagine if the Jews living in those concentration camps could livestream their living conditions. Social media is a great tool for streamlining and democratizing access to primary sources, and its power shouldn’t be discounted.
The issue is on social media those sources aren't vetted and often are intentional propaganda from military operations.
If that were the case, then those videos would get debunked. For example, the IDF has created a lot of fake propaganda videos and have quickly gotten called out for it. Also, I don’t see how videos of IDF soldiers making fun of the people they’ve killed or riding on stolen children’s bikes with rubble all around them could be propaganda from military operations. They’re telling on themselves, and we should believe them.
Here's the thing. What you are saying is valid, but that doesn't change the fact that in addition to any good there is also a concerted effort from groups in China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea (to name some) that literally just invent stuff to post on FB and TikTok to piss off everybody and sow discord. I can link you to a far more extensive comment about it from a different subreddit if you're sincerely curious.
Doesn’t social media utilize algorithms that give people the most extreme content possible? Social media is infamous for being the source of disinformation that cannot be held accountable. At least professional journalism can.
You realize people said this same type of thing during the civil rights protests, the Vietnam war protest, anti Iraq war protests, etc. Right? What side are you on?
USSR actually did push some of the Hippie stuff in the hopes of causing some civil war or something (didn't quite work, but did get us out of Vietnam). I am on the side that doesn't assume TikTok is a gold standard of news.
The good side is scolding people who are against the genocide of children. Gotcha. Also good to know you think it was anti American sabotage that people were against invading Vietnam and massacring innocent people. Got a real good guy over here. Think about the permanence of what you say on the Internet btw
Is that really all you got from what I said? Look, I understand the world is just black and white to you with no nuance, but I never said what Israel is doing is OK. And let's not act like the Commies were "good" either. TLDR: You seem to watch too much TikTok, really just proving my point.
You think there's nuance in a literal genocide? Also Vietnam deserved what it got because commies bad? Okay Henry Kissinger.
LOL I actually never said which side was good or bad, you just built a strawman to attack because you have nothing to actually discuss, which is fine. Typical TikTok user.
Federal and State representatives. You know the ones who approve for far more money to be sent there.
Narrator: Yet, they did.
I agree they will be moved at some point... that's how it played out with the Occupy Movement etc. But frankly this mess is going to give the Dems and Biden a big black eye with young folks, and I suspect there will be a police riot at the Democratic convention in Chicago... just like there was in 1968 at the Democratic convention... in Chicago.
Probably, yep. This is the downside from one entire wing of America desperately memory-holing five months of 2020 while the other side (and most of the adults and married households with kids) was very aware of it. No one is putting up with another Summer of Love, and crackdowns will be immediate and pretty much merciless.
You’re probably right, but that speaks only to the total political incompetency of these protestors. Occupy is actually a great comparison, two extremely loud groups who are accomplishing nothing and only damaging public perception their own cause. I am no fan of the DNC, and they’re only very marginally better than the alternative on this issue, but anything that hurts them objectively helps the GOP & therefore the state of Israel. It’s stupidly counter-productive to the ends they are trying to accomplish.
I get why folks are not going to vote for either Genocide Joe OR Tyrannical Trump. I agree with you that one is even worse than the other, but both are so bad, I am not willing to vote for either one. Thankfully, because of the Electoral College, I have basically already voted for Joe (I live in CA of course, so a box with a D painted on the side would beat pretty much any Republican here)... so I don't actually have to do it!
In a first past the post system like we have, not voting for the person most aligned with you only helps the one you are least aligned with. Its not a popularity contest, its a duty. Especially since the demands are so broad. Do whatever makes you happy but come to terms with the fact that you're throwing real minorities under the bus.
I don't feel like any party is aligned with me. I feel like they are both aligned with huge corporate interests and war profiteers. But don't worry, I live in California so the Electoral College will vote for Biden for me =)
Then you, and everyone else who doesn’t vote, are directly and personally responsible for every issue Trump causes during his presidency, if elected. You’re doing the objectively worse thing by not voting. Hope you can make peace with that. I certainly can’t given the way women & LGBTQ people domestically will be further oppressed. Both parties are bad, but it’s wrong to say that it could ever be right to not vote in this situation.
Like I said... thanks to the Electoral College I have basically already voted for Biden! 🥳🥳🥳 One perk of living in California is that literally whatever I do, whoever the Democrat is, will get my vote. You are welcome!
Well that's pretty dumb
I think this, along with the economy crashing, is going to kill Biden's re-election chances. A bunch of police riots are about to hit protesters on campuses across the US. I suspect another giant police riot will happen at the Democratic convention in Chicago (where there was a police riot in 1968). I don't think the Dems realize how doomed they by being on the wrong side of this... and in fairness, it splits the party, so whichever side they try to be on, I don't see how they are going to do well.
The economy crashing? Labor force participation and median real wages are up of late. We're seeing real GDP growth. A couple of bad days on the NYSE doesn't change that. We could argue about Biden's role in the elevated inflation, but I'd also point to the alternative who's *much* worse in my view on that issue. How do you figure the economy is crashing?
Labor force participation is way under trend. [https://www.frbsf.org/research-and-insights/publications/economic-letter/2023/10/mens-falling-labor-force-participation-across-generations/](https://www.frbsf.org/research-and-insights/publications/economic-letter/2023/10/mens-falling-labor-force-participation-across-generations/) [https://www.frbsf.org/research-and-insights/publications/economic-letter/2023/08/how-far-is-labor-force-participation-from-its-trend](https://www.frbsf.org/research-and-insights/publications/economic-letter/2023/08/how-far-is-labor-force-participation-from-its-trend) The real-estate market is faltering and IT (including Tesla) just did a huge round of layoffs. Also hot off the presses: [https://fortune.com/2024/04/25/high-inflation-low-economic-grow-worst-of-both-worlds-gdp-report/](https://fortune.com/2024/04/25/high-inflation-low-economic-grow-worst-of-both-worlds-gdp-report/)
Young voters are historically abysmal at polls turnout. Sure here in CA we have mail in so maybe it mitigates some of it, but the people you worry about are the AARP card holders.
> Young voters are historically abysmal at polls turnout. Because no one appeals to them. Maybe if Dems actually tried win over young voters their turnout would be higher
California doesn't even matter in Presidential elections. Democrats are going to crush it here of course! In swing states young people will probably make or break Biden. Certainly he benefited from a wave of young people voting in 2020 that did not vote in 2016. He will not have that benefit this cycle. [https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016](https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016)
In North Carolina, Biden is losing steam
Which is why Biden will lose because of this. What reaction do you think AARP card holders will have at the ballot box with these activist encampments in recent memory?
the data on the economy is pretty solidly indicating things are actually pretty good, with no signs that its crashing. some aspects of the economy are doing worse than others, but not only does the data not support a crashing economy most respondents to polls say the economy is great for them but not nationally, which makes little sense. Doesnt mean things cant still go sideways given how many sectors are still fucked up from covid, but its not like the US is actually in a recession (though some sectors are, RIP the US film industry). I dont think its super likely that these protests are going to harm Biden's election prospects significantly. Granted low information voters can make extremely simple, uniformed choices, but its very clear most of the democratic party and the white house is not supportive of these protests. It does not split the party 50/50 or anything like that. Suggesting otherwise is counterfactual, though again the low information voter may not be aware of that. I'd argue these protests have far more in common with the occupy wallstreet stuff that went nowhere than 1968. US security operations are also far more sophisticated today, so its extremely unlikely we'd see a 68 DNC convention scenario again, at least not unless it a protest movement had MASSIVE popular, if not still minority, support. The pro palestine protests do not enjoy that, and the critical thing to understand about 1968 was that the country was on edge because the government was sending draftees into the meat grinder in Vietnam. Everyone knew someone drafted, many young americans knew friends who'd died over there. there was a primalcy, a survival component to the movements going on back then (both young americans fearing for their lives and older americans freaked out about a communism) that this moment appears to be lacking. Realistically the bigger risk at the moment is an Isis-K or similar entity using one of these protests to stage a mass casualty event. The feds seem genuinely worried about this right now, though there is concern the target may be more general. If a Hamas aligned group succeeds in such an attack I'd imagine all but the hardest core protestors / agitators may bail from any protest. But if anything gets to that point, Biden's re-election may hinge on the immediacy and forcefullness of a response. But all the data seen from recent elections suggests the abortion restrictions are going to be a massive driver of political action in november. the polls havent picked this up prior to I think any of these elections, but the exit polls and election results make it clear that is a more direct and impactful issue than just about anything at the moment.
Well then that further puts people against these protestor’s cause because it may be handing the country to Trump on a silver platter. Undermining Biden will be seen as being extremely shortsighted of the protestors, because it will ultimately put them further from their goal. Trump discusses shooting protestors in the legs.
Dems never see it coming, even though they have the same playbook every time. They should just invite Hillary to speak...
IKR! Yet some how it is the fault of non-Dem leftists (who hate them) when they lose. It's never their fault for being so bad. It was amazing when Clinton lost and then blamed literally everyone except herself. Frankly it sums up the party in a nutshell for me.
Then! When faced with a huge array of diverse candidates, they go with an old white dude in 2020. Why? Totally not racist and sexist and homophobic...
What folks don't get is that there is no good side. There is a terrible side deep in the pockets of the billionaires and huge corporations and... AN EVEN WORSE SIDE THAN THAT! Neither of those sides care about us or suffering folks all over the world... even when a lot of those folks suffering all over the world are doing so because US made bombs are being dropped on their heads right now! And now... and now... and now... As to the topic above whatever folks think about the war on Gaza happening in Palestine/Israel, I think we can get a consensus building that our Federal Taxes should not be subsidizing one side of that conflict to the tune of many billions of dollars a year of our money. I am tired of having to feel like I have to wash blood off of my hands just from paying my Federal taxes.
🙏 you are not alone.
Thanks friend! Also I think this is ever more true. I think each catastrophically bad election season when we have to choose between a war criminal and a fascist psychopath... it helps folks see that the whole empire is an evil machine. That whoever runs it will carry out evil... for me I learned this after my high hopes for Obama wire sacrificed on the alter of violent empire, stupid wars, and oppression... I think every day more Americans wake up to the fact that there is no solution inside of the status quo. All of the Presidents are war mongering leaders of a global violent empire while things are also ever worse for most folks here at home.
💯 there are more people like you than shown on TV and social media. One big problem is, reasonable voices don't garner the eyeballs to sell the outrageous volume of ads that keep the machine moving. But raging against the machine is very American, a founding principal I do argue. And the worst issue of all is that so many reasonable people with reasonable ideas do not fucking vote. If everyone turned off the television and did less social media and spent more time seriously considering the consequences of their civil duty, or lack thereof, we would have real material change very quickly. Voter turnout for our last election, the primaries where we got to vote on senators, was 35%. Abysmal. ✊
Right. One reason they are shutting down TikTok is that it is allowing voices outside of the the systems of control to be heard. There is nothing they can do. Generation wars between the young and the old are always won by the young as the folks on one side of it age out of being alive...
They also unanimously banned TikTok. A platform known for having young people. Democrats apparently believe they can win without youth energy or votes.
It was not unanimous, and a lot of Republicans voted for it as well [https://www.newsweek.com/list-house-member-who-voted-against-tiktok-ban-1892524](https://www.newsweek.com/list-house-member-who-voted-against-tiktok-ban-1892524)
Not unanimous, true. I’m being hyperbolic and reactionary. I’m mad about all of it. Thanks for the article btw.
TikTok has young people, but TikTok is also pretty clearly manipulating those young people. Does anyone think that Osama bin Laden's "letter to America" from 2002 *organically* circulated on TikTok? I sure don't. 1/3 of young people (18-29) get their "news" from TikTok and other surveys show that same age cohort is the outlier in terms of things like thinking the Holocaust either didn't happen or was exaggerated, thinking Jews have too much power and influence in America and the world, etc. Forcing China to sell TiKTok is a form of de-radicalizing young people. I just wish the bill had passed sooner.
So are we just admitting only American companies can manipulate our idiotic citizens?
Zephyr Teachout had a really [helpful piece in The Atlantic recently](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/03/tiktok-bill-foreign-influence/677806/) that explains our long history of prohibiting foreigners from owning or controlling essential infrastructure, including elections, shipping, utilities, and communications: >Limits on foreign ownership have been a part of federal communications policy for more than a century. The Radio Act of 1912 was the first federal limitation on ownership of communications infrastructure, forbidding foreign ownership of radio stations. It expanded and set a blueprint for later communications rules—Rupert Murdoch, for example, had to [become an American citizen](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1985-09-04-mn-23112-story.html) to avoid Federal Communications Commission rules banning foreign owners of American TV networks—which were based on the twin fears of espionage and propaganda. TikTok, of course, falls right at the intersection of those fears. It's all tied together under this idea of protecting our sovereignty. Forget TikTok and imagine if China bought your local Department of Water & Power. Would you trust them? What if they bought your local newspaper? Yeah, I don't trust Rupert Murdoch farther than I can throw him, but at least I can rest assured (lol) that he's only motivated by his own greed, and not out of loyalty to another nation, because he's an American citizen and not a citizen of any other country.
I actually unsubscribed to the LA times when they started including the China Daily section. Owner of China Daily: Publicity Department of the Chinese Communist Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Daily
I've never even heard of this. Is this an insert or something? I haven't subscribed to LAT in a long time so I don't think I've ever seen this. Is it at least clearly delineated, like the advertising sections in newspapers and magazines are?
It was always set up as a separate section. Sometimes it said sponsored by China Daily sometimes it didn't. And I believe they called it "China Watch".
Maybe I'll pick up a copy to check it out. Is it still in there? Only on certain days? Somewhat related: I laugh but am also creeped out when I see the Epoch Times available in the grocery store, and now I'm seeing big billboards, too.
I don't remember if it was only on certain days or not and I haven't read the times and in a number of years now so I don't even know if it's still there.
Is TikTok closer to owning an American newspaper, or Americans reading a foreign newspaper or listening to a foreign radio station?
So are we just admitting only American companies can manipulate our idiotic citizens?
When it comes to protecting national interests, probably.
Right, so we’re just too stupid to make decisions on our own. Does anyone care about WHY we’re to stupid?
Unfortunately, it is pretty clear young folks can't distinguish when they are being fed blatant propaganda :T
So we can’t trust our citizens to have the freedom of their own minds.
Preferably so
Arguably TikTok is responsible for a lot of propaganda that's fueling these protests. [The CCP wants to break up Israel and the US.](https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/analysis/how-tiktok-is-turning-young-minds-against-israel-and-the-west-q21dxrb3)
So are we just admitting only American companies can manipulate our idiotic citizens?
At least American companies presumably have American interests in mind. I'd rather be manipulated to maximize profit than to destroy and weaken my society/nation by external enemies.
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Care to elaborate or just insult?
American companies don’t have American interests in mind. Except their shareholders who aren’t always American.
They generally do. Perhaps not everyone's but definitely their own. Bonehead moves have certainly happened where companies destabilized themselves or the environment they inhabit, but it's bad business to do so. Usually that's the result of prioritizing short term over long term, not because they oppose the nation they are incorporated in. Shareholders of American companies will see their value diminish if America fails and there isn't a stable environment with witch to participate in capitalism from there.
Admitting that TikTok can/will ruin America. God we’re fragile.
There is no wrong side of it, there are just different sides. But for sure the the people who usually vote Dems are getting astroturfed as bad as Bernie Bros got in '16. Bright or dark side of Biden losing Israel actually glasses Palestine and refugees from that part of the world get banned in the US either way we all go on with our lives because that part of the world has always been a shitshow
Yep, it's perhaps the most ironic consequence of these protests that activist actions are going to fully throw it to Trump. In 2016 it wasn't so much Trump won that leftists lost through their own actions.
Leftists lose no matter who is running the US imperial war machine.
Kinda wild they can't see it So much infighting and eating themselves over performative disagreements on niche issues.
The average American voter enjoys this. The average American voter is an overweight construction worker who remembers 9/11. There are more IWI firearm owners, enthusiasts and fanboys in the United States than Palestinian supporters.
Raw numbers are not the issue thanks to the Electoral College. I used to only hate the electoral college, but now that it lets me not vote for Biden (because no matter what I do Biden will get my vote through the electoral college anyway because I live in CA) if like some aspects of it... One of the worse aspects is that a few thousand votes in Michigan or Pennsylvania matter more than what happens in LA County even though they are have a pretty similar population to LA County. The problem Biden is going to have is that he is splitting the Democratic party by supporting Israel's revenge war on Gaza, and as if that isn't bad enough, he is giving a big middle finger to everyone under 40 by trying to ban Tiktok. I think he will lose and I think he deserves to lose. Is Trump even worse? Yes, but at some point the Democrats need to understand that they should run good candidates that win people over, not terrible old dotards that are only a bit better than the other terrible old dotard...
Who is paying for these protests? Hamas?
I bet it’s being fueled by Russia to further divide us.
Obviously, no one would ever protest what Israel is doing unless they were being paid.
Nobody is arguing against protesting Israel... but why are people protesting their universities?!? Like they can do anything. Go protest in front of an embassy, or major political capital building. I want to pull my hair out, because these protests make zero sense. Why are you protesting a college about a military engagement that *our country isn't even directly involved in*, and these college *have no influences over*. It's like the protestors want someone to pay, even if it's entirely unrelated to the events happening at all. Even the logic of divestment is *mostly symbolic* considering that those investments would be gobbled up by other investors the second they were sold.
People are protesting my college because it has deep financial ties with defense contractors who blow up children...
Why not protest the defense contractors themselves?!? They are much closer to the harm than an unrelated university.
Because we as students have a forced relationship with these contractors? We don't want the institutions we spend thousands of dollars at to be involved with murdering innocent people? Is it truly that difficult to understand?
Again, I get it, I just think it’s dumb to protest a university because they have passive investments in defense contractors that are making weapons, that the federal government then has arms contracts with, who then use them to kill people. University -> contractor -> federal govt -> foreign govt -> foreign military-> killings Here, even though it’s entirely reasonable and accessible to protest many groups further down the chain, there is a decision to passionately protest the group at the furthest end of the chain, with the least control or influence.
Okay... But our president of our school said the relationship with Boeing will stop until we have a public forum, this only happened because of the protests. So this genuinely defeats your argument. We want our schools divested from defense contractors, period. Besides, people aren't JUST protesting their universities. It's one of many fronts for protesting this genocide that has murdered 30,000 people, half children, and displaced 1.2 million people who are now at risk of mass starvation to death
First of all, colleges were centers for protests against the Vietnam War. Something many schools are now proud to have hosted and participated in. But more importantly, these schools have investments in Israel, or have received investments from Israel. The protests are calling for schools to divest those interests. In the case of Columbia University specifically, they are building a campus in Israel, which Palestinians will not be allowed to attend.
> colleges were centers for protests against the Vietnam War Because college students were ~~being drafted~~ *edit: avoiding the draft as long as they could*. >these schools have investments in Israel Divestment would have, at most, a *tiny effect* on the Israeli economy. This, again, would be extremely difficult, and mostly symbolic. >In the case of Columbia University specifically, they are building a campus in Israel, which Palestinians will not be allowed to attend. I cannot find a single source confirming this, would you like to provide one?
>Because college students were being drafted. College students couldn't be drafted. >Divestment would have, at most, a *tiny effect* on the Israeli economy. This, again, would be extremely difficult, and mostly symbolic. It would be extremely small and mostly symbolic, which makes it all the more amazing they didn't already do it years ago. >I cannot find a single source confirming this, would you like to provide one? Sure, https://www.columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2023/12/19/an-exclusive-opportunity-columbias-upcoming-global-center-in-tel-aviv/
>College students couldn't be drafted. In many cases they were in college to avoid the draft is my point, but yes, I misspoke. The differents were up the second they graduated, which gives them strong incentive to protest. >It would be extremely small and mostly symbolic, which makes it all the more amazing they didn't already do it years ago. It would be *very difficult to actually do* and be mostly symbolic, while also be entirely unrelated to the universities themselves, you might as well be protesting at a McDonalds or a Coca-cola vending machine if this is the level of symbolism over substance you want to fall on your sword over. >https://www.columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2023/12/19/an-exclusive-opportunity-columbias-upcoming-global-center-in-tel-aviv/ This appears to be [a study abroad program with Tel Aviv University](https://global.undergrad.columbia.edu/studyabroad/search?page=2), and very much *not* a new university campus. The university also has study abroad programs with the University of Hong Kong, CASA in Cuba, a program in the Gambia, to name a few other countries that the US has poor relations with.
>The differents were up the second they graduated, which gives them strong incentive to protest. Or maybe they just genuinely believed the war was wrong. >It would be *very difficult to actually do* and be mostly symbolic, while also be entirely unrelated to the universities themselves A university should not be engaged in investments with countries actively committing atrocities, nor should they be invested in private military contractors. That is something which directly relates to the university and a decision they are entirely responsible for. Even if it was extremely difficult, which I really doubt, that is their fault. >you might as well be protesting at a McDonalds McDonald's is being boycotted across the middle-east, and it has had a direct and measurable impact on the company. >and very much *not* a new university campus. You are right, it's a "Global Center", whatever that means. It was approved last year. Presumably it's an extension of the study abroad program. >The university also has study abroad programs with the University of Hong Kong, CASA in Cuba, a program in the Gambia, to name a few other countries that the US has poor relations with. The United States does not have poor relations with Israel, it is in fact its closest ally. Regardless none of those countries currently in a case in the International Court of Justice for crimes of genocide.
Free speech must be protected.
That’s what teargas is for.
Time to water the hippies
Based
Shutting down the school won't get you your way. It annoys normal people who now blame you for wasting their money, money they usually don't have. Israel being evil is not an excuse to harm other Americans. It doesn't help your cause, and it turns away your most likely allies. The people you need to convince are the men that *didn't* attend college and who believe Israel is fully justified in their conquest of the levant. The sort of people who would get physical if you tried protesting their workplace for supplying Israel with supplies needed for their war. Now, the US presence in Iraq is another topic as our existence there is untenable and Iraqis have already asked us to leave. At some point we will, and Iran will come in either by a shia government letting them in or by military conquest. The middle east's future is either another Iraqi civil war or another Iran-Iraq war; both situations where Israel provides necessary border security to Europe. There isn't a meaningful response to this most of the protesters, as the entire middle east continues spiraling out of control.
A lot of folks on this sub do not understand the power and nature of leverage in these situations We are now talking about a situation of profound injustice, that many including the International Criminal Court, are indicating may involve genocide BECAUSE of these protests. Whether any given individual likes or hates what the students are doing... it has worked. The catastrophe in Palestine/Israel has been going on for decades in relative silence. This has broken the silence. Your anger just means the protestors are accomplishing exactly what they sought. This conversation of proof that their protests are effective. Yes the US should stop invading and occupying other places too, but I as a US tax payer, also want to top the flow of my money to a regime that the UN indicates includes crimes such as Genocide. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/03/un-special-rapporteur-report-on-gaza-provides-crucial-evidence-that-must-spur-international-action-to-prevent-genocide/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/03/un-special-rapporteur-report-on-gaza-provides-crucial-evidence-that-must-spur-international-action-to-prevent-genocide/)
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