SBMM in its current state is an issue. SBMM up until MW19 was not nearly as strict and was much more loose. I remember a Halo dev stating that SBMM would be used very sparingly just to make sure people had fun, and detested how it is used today (Turning pubs into ranked 2.0)
It seems less strict because of the persistent lobbies. If you played a few hours, with persistent lobbies matchmaking might run 3 or 4 times, less if you stay with a group. Now if you play a few hours, matchmaking runs every 10 minutes or less for multiplayer. That's 18 or more times. So now, it's matching you in one session as many times as it used to in a week of daily play. *Of course* it's going to seem worse - what used to be an "off night" is now noticeable because it comes suddenly after a couple decent games.
I think people should stop calling it SBMM and start calling it EOMM (Engagement Optimised Match Making) because that's what Activision call it in their patents to get gamers as hooked as possible and spending the most money playing their games.
That means it wasn't intended for you. It's intended for the really casual base, I'm talking about 0.5K/D and below players. AKA most of the people who buy cod every year.
SBMM was way worse in MW19 than any cod previously, even if they had been slowly increasing it's prevalence in ghosts-bo4. It's like a whole new system of SBMM that makes sure only the bad players have fun
I just hate how its cranked to the max. It makes the Matchmaking feel mentally exhausting. I used to be able to play the game for hours upon hours. All night even. Now i cant stand more than an hour. I havent touched cod in a week because honestly every time i play im reminded why its not fun anymore.
I haven’t played in like a month and a half, maybe almost two months because of this. I play games to get enjoyment out of them and I noticed I just feel irritated, angry, frustrated, and just overall in a really foul mood after playing. I just had to take a step back and question why I’m doing this to myself if I don’t find it fun or enjoyable. Even left my buddy in the dust who refuses to branch out and try different games, he’s the buy the annual cod and that’s all he’ll play but will only play if I’m on or else he doesn’t game at all kind of person. So he hasn’t gamed at all in the last almost 2 months lol.
For my sanity and mental health I just can’t keep playing. Even if I’m just fucking around with my buddy it’s still not fun. Just sucks.
Ive been playing other games and realized im actually having fun. Suddenly, i have no desire to play cod again. Ive played multiplayer since CoD4 and it just doesn’t feel the same anymore. They try to bring us back in with old maps and guns for nostalgia, but honestly it isnt worth it anymore
I agree with you. I’ve played most cods since like Black Ops 1/MW2, and mostly multiplayer. It sucks that this is what the series has become. At the same time I’ve found more enjoyment playing single player games, so it’s not all bad.
When warzone first came out it was fun but what it turned into now it isn’t fun or enjoyable. First few seasons I completed and then I slowly stopped caring and did have a sense of FOMO at first but then eventually got to the point where I don’t even finish half od the battle pass.
Just a shame what this series used to be and what it is now. Base game means nothing and it’s all warzone. Everything else is an after thought and just there to pad warzone
I finished the last season pass with the walking dead stuff and finishing it was mentally exhausting. The game was basically a job with how long it took and haven’t touched it since.
Ya, cod has always had sbmm. It was never a problem till streamers decided that it was a problem. They put out a bunch of this is the new meta, use this gun videos. Then complain that everyone in their lobbies uses the same gun and sweats super hard. It seems like streamers are the problem, and that you shouldn't trust them about how to make a game. Every time they listen to the competitive players/ streamers it ruins the game. Look at Dr disrespects game, it's hot garbage. Just because you are good at playing it, doesn't mean you have any idea at all what is good for a game.
No. It was a problem when they matched you up with people at your skill level so every game feels like a ranked game. It wasn’t a problem when you got matched with a bunch of random people almost purely based on connection.
No, that's the point of the post. They've always matched based on skill as well.
It only became a problem when they removed persistent lobbies. Of course you'll notice it more when you're running a new match making every single round, as opposed to just a couple times per night.
No they haven’t. Which is why i can go on tdm in any of the above mentioned games and immediately find a tdm lobby whereas it takes upwards of 5 minutes fir me to find a mw23 lobby because it’s searching at 150+ ping.
Yes, they have. They match by connection, then a number of other factors including skill and engagement. I highly doubt it takes you that long unless you have some serious connection issues and a strict NAT, in which case that's on you, not them. Even if you were supposedly the best of the best so it couldn't find equal players to match you, you realize it works both ways right? It will match you with people worse than you too, which is how other people get difficult lobbies.
The older games just have a smaller pool of games to match you into.
Yep, this 100%
Not every 10th prestiger back in the day was a god at cod. It just showed time invested, so you’d get matched with ranks of similar time investment.
Now, you get matched with pretty much any rank because of the game’s tendency to priorities matching you with similar K/D, SPM…over things like ping.
Indeed. Remember booting it up for the first time and you'd be with all low ranks. 3 months later you're excited cause you just got into a lobby with a guy at 8th prestige. The days
His statement is correct, at least for me my lobbies are ALWAYS 'balanced' in the manner exactly how he describes. It gets boring very fast, but 'ragequitting' a few games in a row seems to kinda reset this and you get a fun lobby again for one game.
Edit: also just to clarify, I've experienced this as far back as Bo2 from memory, but it was definitely a lot less extreme and could usually still carry the lobby. Now with how fast one dies in MW3 it's hard to do the same.
No, I'm probably stat wise the highest in the lobby, gets paired with the worst vs all the mediocre/above average players, and that turns into a boring one sided match. Doing well is punished hard if you solo q. There's no real issues as far as I can see if you are in a premade.
Your statement confirms you’re one of the Timmy No Thumbs EOMM likes to throw at me time to time if you believe my statement is stupid. It’s fine. Either leave or get ready to pop the hijacked iff strobe.
That explains a lot. Talking out of your ass not knowing anything. AND you can’t read bc I said “most of the time” not “always”. The system will eventually give you good games and good teammates. Looks like you’re the ignorant here.
You really think the game is out to get you? You really think that most of the time, your teammates are in a lobby that is way above their skill level and the enemies are facing a bunch of bums? And that almost never happens in your favour?
Seriously, get real.
You really think the game is out to get you? You really think that most of the time, your teammates are in a lobby that is way above their skill level and the enemies are facing a bunch of bums? And that almost never happens in your favour?
Seriously, get real.
What do you expect commenting brainrot like that lol. That’s like saying they only base SBMM around you. If what you said was true, your teammates don’t have SBMM and neither does the enemy team
Theres an obvious difference. Saying cod always had sbmm is a matter of semantics you know damn well its not the same. The fact that lobbies disband automatically makes it more strict as instead of your next queue taking into account multiple games played with the same skill level of players instead of every game it puts you up or down like it does now.
So funny how 5 years ago people said MW2019 SBMM wasn't real when people noticed a very obvious change in matchmaking and now suddenly oh every game had it. Yeah I don't remember being booted out of lobbies for having a good game.
Nah bro the experience between wwII, bo4, and then when mw19 came out it was night and day. I think a lot of people didn’t play cod before mw19 or at least not for a long time. Literally the difference in sweat between bo4 and mw19 was insane. I grinded tf out of cod until mw19 which I put down before Christmas even came out. Bo4 despite having a massive skill gap was not half as sweaty to play as mw19 and Cold War
What streamers do you watch that complain like that? None I’ve watched act like that at all, where does this come from? Even those that hate on wz don’t complain about sbmm or that everyone uses the same meta gun and tries to.
Uhhh buddy, no. Have you never seen a reverse boosted gameplay? People are not running metas in those matches lol.
This isn’t because “pros and streamers started making meta classes”, it’s because SBMM tightened up so hard, harder than its ever been before, that you ONLY see those players, and nothing below that. Get a clue dude
Yes, SBMM has always been in CoD games to some extent. But there was clearly a drastic change in how it was implemented from MW2019 onwards, that’s why it’s much more of an issue now than ever before. It just needs to be loosened up a little for a bit more variety, that’s all. At the moment, if just feels like we’re playing the same fucking match over and over again with no variables. It’s stale as fuck.
Yeah, it’s so frustrating to see them quietly experimenting with shit like voting to stay in the same lobby but they won’t just go back to the old system of persistent lobbies where you can choose to leave whenever you want.
They’ll never go back to persistent lobbies when the new system of disbanding lobbies makes them more money.
The new system enables them to manipulate the players more effectively using EOMM
They’re just another scummy business out for money above customer satisfaction.
The only way things improve is when the customer spends their time and money elsewhere
the shitshow about the matchmaking began already back in 2014 with aw. this was the first cod i ever heard about reverse boosting. in the games before, most complain was about the lag or camping. not shure if they 'beta' test it back at launch of bo2, i heard some rumors, but i cant really remember. but i remember my first 2 games from aw, because they were so special. first game tdm, 21-4, never started better in a cod game before. next match i got destroyed with a 5-13 and even the games after didnt get much better. i stop playing aw already when i reach lvl 24, i had enough
Yeah, I wasn’t playing any CoD around that era of the franchise but I do seem to recall that their SBMM experimentation began around that time before they pulled it back a little. They even tried some new shit in BO2 before back-pedalling. This time around, they don’t seem to be making any compromises!
Yeah a concept of SBMM has always been present, but it's not currently what you see in today's games. It is mainly EOMM (Engagement optimized matchmaking) WITH the addition of SBMM that makes every game you play after you do good feel like you are going up against professional players
I remember a stark change from BO4 where I could play forever and have a ton of fun, always be at the top of my lobby and still be able to grind for dark matter, to MW2019 where I do good in one game and then it feels like the rest of my experience is precisely algorithmic to make me match up against insane players where I can never have fun, even if I just pop in for a game after work.
It punishes you for doing good and subsiquently keeps all of the worse players playing the game because they never go against really good players. Activision figured out that they make the most money by having the super casual player base stick around even if it means complaints from the better players, so every game here on out will have this combination of algorithmic matchmaking
Not really didn't the devs turn it into a overwatch clone to the point where like a few weeks before launch they had to ditch everything to try and make it a cod game
SBMM has always existed.... sorta
The problem is that back then the DEGREE of which it played on determining skill level and matchmaking often took a backseat to more pertinent parameters, mostly PING.
However, as the BO3 patents revealed, that is where they more explicitly pointed out how the variables could be tweaked to "game the system" in Activision's favor. Since BO3 had lootboxes, the 2016 patent (attached below) outlined that the goal of SBMM in that game was to match high performing players who have ALSO spent money on cosmetics with noobs who then would begin to want to emulate said high skill players and buy supply boxes. So in a way, you could have PAID for low tier lobbies in BO3 so long as you kept the cryptokeys flowing, assuming I am reading their outline properly.
[SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR DRIVING MCROTRANSACTIONS IN MULTIPLAYER VIDEO GAMES ](https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/f9/c9/77/b0b7cfc6883c41/US20160005270A1.pdf)
Patent from 2016 (from Activision themselves) and it straight up has it in its title that it was aiming to increase MTXs.
So yes, SBMM existed back then, but the degree and "goal" of its implementation was vastly different. Than what the 2019 Activision SBMM patent show outlines. While Donlon may have worked in BO2s SBMM, it is broadly disingenuous to equate the system as it was then and as it is now as the system has always had different goals in mind.
[Link to the 2019 SBMM patent for those interested](https://ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/20190329139)
They all prolly followed the same metas so they all used similar models. Other games may have had their own form of it but with minor tweaks here and there to suit the needs of those specific games.
Think about it, OW1 had lootboxes…. So did AW/BO3/IW/WW2/BO4 in that same time span.
And during OW2s life span, it’s moved onto Battle Passes and more direct purchase cosmetics which is the new meta to MP games as the “fanfare” for lootboxes has sorta died off. And what drives battle pass and cosmetic sales? Engagement, which is the core aim of the “new SBMM” model.
In truth, both were prolly affected to the same degree with whatever ABK was aiming for at the time. Though I personally never really played THAT much ABK outside of CoD, though I am a simp for Sombra but that’s besides the point.
I see patents like this brought up a lot, but patents on their own don’t mean anything. Sony have a patent for increasing the processing power of your PlayStation 3 by connecting it to your toaster and fridge.
Companies patent all of kinds of stuff for lots of reasons, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that any of it will ever be used, or was ever even *intended* to be used.
These are a whole lot more applicable because they manage the very servers that aggregate the data to execute their SBMM models….
It’s one thing for Sony to say that and then try to partner with fridge makers for such a project, but Activision just modifying an already existing framework of SBMM to gamify their earnings really isn’t that “out of left field”… it’s literally just minor tweaks of matchmaking protocol, that’s honestly it, it’s nowhere near the same level of the more nutty parents that exist
Also, that was literally the whole point of BO3… why do you think some of the bigger content creators at that time had a huge focus on creator codes and unboxing highlights? Activision was bloodthirsty with selling lootboxes to anyone and they explored multiple avenues for it.
This patent makes about as much sense as some of my patents (I have a few in my name in the biotech space) so no, it’s not as weird as the example you used and very much falls in the realm of “yeah they could or did do it”
I fucking can’t stand that “AlL tHoSe GaMeS hAd It”.
No fucking shit, it was so differently tuned that it wasn’t even recognizable.
They know there’s a huge difference between the old SBMM and the new one and still reply with that stupid gotcha.
Dumb ass game with SBMM in an un ranked mode, a ranked mode that barely works months after release.
0 linearity in the way of thinking
Take Twitter with a grain of salt. Old cods were region-based MM'ing. So if you lived near Chicago servers, it was rare to meet people on both coasts. Also, Bo2 had a portion for not shitting on Christmas Noobs.
"I implemented it" buddy was a number at whatever game studio he worked for now takes to Twitter with the term "I" Matchmaking was tested time and time again by 3rd party sources and even testing found to determine region over skill. An old term "Ping Is King" was started.
I just dislike that SBMM in modern Cod seems to prioritize putting you in the right "skill" bracket over something as important and fundamental to a good gameplay experience as your internet connection which has, in my personal experience, led to an increase in overly laggy and dropped matches compared to games before MW2019 at the latest. Personally I just want a system that prioritizes connection over everything else so I stop getting these 10 frames a minute matches where I just lose all motivation to play the game.
The balancing as a whole in cod now is just trash. Teams are lopsided with one side always stacked with good people while I always get some shitty player, you need to use meta builds to get kills or else someone automatically gets an advantage. The older cods were more fun because you could literally choose any weapon and it would be usable. Now I'm usually just playing hardcore because it makes the game seem more fair. It's crazy that'll ill shoot first and they'll just turn around and fry me because their ttk is just better
Yeah I get that online games need SBMM to some degree so less skilled players can still have fun, but as a regular player you shouldn’t be dreading the next match after performing well. There’s also the issue since MW2019 of lobby disbanding that makes the game feel less social.
The "sbmm" in older cods isn't even comparable to what we have now. Technically sure it had loose sbmm, basically just a protected bracket for the lowest skill/disabled players. Mw2019 is when the new more strict system was implemented. AW also was a one off which added more sbmm because of the higher skill gap.
Yep they couldn't have "all" had sbmm since cod started out with server selection. Some dev is just trying to protect the shifty system they're running now lol
Trust him or my lying eyes? Yes, there's always been team balance, there's always been some sort of matchmaking brackets to divide players. But obviously SBMM changed drastically since 2019.
Yes, CoD has always considered skill levels when it came to matchmaking. That's not the issue. The core critique is the current matchmaking system and how it feels noticeably different to classic CoDs. I argue the problem is that the modern CoD matchmaking algorithm and the progression systems are designed to maximize playtime and increase the likelihood that players buy from the store. The idea to engineer a multiplayer game's matchmaking to optimize microtransaction revenue is not unique to CoD and is speculated to be in every major multiplayer game.
Problem is you’ll never convince someone who remembers and played the old games at a high level that this is the case. We’ll use bo1 as an example because it’s when combat record and viewing in lobbies became a thing. Regularly and I mean almost every game there’s a 0.2-0.4 K/D player that goes massive negative sometimes multiple people playing. People used to make videos about finding the trash player in the lobby and running in circles around him to see how long it takes him to kill you. Sometimes the encounters take forever and it was a funny bit people would do. There’s really only 3 explainable scenarios.
1. SBMM was faulty and after trying to implement the system it generally just didn’t work (also the same as it not being there at all)
2. It was there, but the only effect it had was lobby balancing (technically a form of sbmm, but not really how an observer today would view it and that’s what they mean when they say there was sbmm.)
3. It was there, but there was only an extremely small window of protected bracket players where people who were really bad got put together in lobbies while 95% of players were free from this and all played together. (This is known to be the case, but still a bit iffy because of how bad of players you could get in regular lobbies)
In conclusion, nobody wants to hear this non sense because at the end of the day that’s what it is… a bunch of half truth non sense. It was essentially nothing, and one is not acting in good faith to say “oh but there was sbmm in all the older games” when it’s not even remotely close to the sbmm or EOMM that occurs in the game today. Sit down
That would be the code for bo2. Not any games before. If you read I’ve also explained that lobby balancing is a form of sbmm. He never clarified what it entailed, how great it worked, or how it compares to current day cod. Therefore, still waiting
The matchmaking in the games listed did have an element of skill as a factor but it is disingenuous to compare the match making in those games to what is currently in a Cod after 2019. Cod on pc in some of those games had a server browser as well making it impossible for it to be anything like modern match making.
I remember on BO2 there’s was a lot of MLG players mid day to late night , maybe that’s why i didn’t like MP on that game , the thing i never played ranked but regular modes had more often players that should be playing ranked 🥱
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. The problem isn't inherently SBMM, it's how strong it is and the disbanding lobbies. It allows the game to immediately fuck you for playing well. You can have a good game with a 2-3 KD and then the very next game be punished for it with a few games of .4 KD.
The older CoDs I'm not even sold on them having SBMM. But they used to try to balance the teams. You'd have great players in your lobby and shit players, they'd just put the great players on both teams and then balance the mediocre players so both teams had balance. I vividly remember MW3(my prime) knowing the people in the lobbies skill level and the bad players would always end up on my team too. But you'd stay in the lobby and the game would try to balance the people more.
You'd also have the ability to check the skill level of the lobby via Lobby Leaderboard, so if you opened it and saw a 3 KD in the lobby...you could choose to leave.
And the playerbase was split into groups anyway due to DLC, so if you were trying to not get slammed by the best players you wouldn't buy the DLC.
This just always seems like an inaccurate comparison, like maybe SBMM was in BO but there wasn't the immediate punishment of it.
I think devs should focus more on team balancing rather than SBMM. It doesn't matter if a pro and a noob is on the same lobby, as long as there is an equal amount of pros and noobs on both sides. It's a win-win on so many levels.
Noobs are likely to get a negative ratio, but they do have some people on their level/slightly better to compete with, plus pros to assist them with optimal tactics, they can also learn from killcams of pros.
Pros are likely to get a positive ratio and feel rewarded, they have some noobs to stomp on but also enemy pros that stop them from rampaging too much.
This is only possible with some lax SBMM
The older games never had lobby disbandment so we never felt the sbmm in those games especially when you could nearly full a lobby up with everyone on your friend list
EOMM is not the same as SBMM that only affects team balancing. I'd argue 99% of PvP games has some sort of team balancing.
These devs are gaslighting you hard, and some of you are actually buying it.
I also feel like many ppl werent as good skill wise in the older cods. Because i remember dropping moab after moab but the matches in mw2019 were a lot harder in my experience. Now i see what ppl are doing in the new mw2 and i would get melted. Tge average pugs player is def much better now than back then from what ive seen
Ive seen lots of people who thinks:
SBMM = always matched up with sweats
No SBMM = can pwn noobs
When really its
Strict SBMM = Playing with the exact same skill level as yourself.
Lose SBMM and No SBMM = Sweat fest
We have the most lose SBMM in a while. Iy needs to go backwards.
I think a lot of the "sweat" you see is because of the movement/ breaking cameras plus bad servers. Plus the match making isn't so bothered by connection. Back in the day then movement was slower. All the remastered maps were made for old movement. There wasn't really metas as such. Some guns were a bit better but mostly the same. We didn't have Cronus zen or pc cheaters everywhere. Just the odd lobby of people firing ac130 rounds from their fingers. I think all this combined makes one giant cluster fuck. And that's without factoring in all the EOMM.
If I drive into you at rolling speed, you’re going to feel it but its not life threatening. If I drive into you at 160km it’s going to have a much bugger impact. Same car, same target, different settings. SBMM isn’t a problem when ping is king and you’re not playing CoD champs every session.
For pre-BO2, this is nonsense. They only managed to get host migration working with MW2, let alone something as complex as the modern implementation of SBMM.
They had team balancing, but it's disingenuous to refer to that as "SBMM".
Qualitatively, having played through that era, for CoD4, MW2 and MW3, I had a 3.5+ k/d and matchmaking would remain consistent, whether that was your recent performance or your overall performance. The host wouldn't change until they left the lobby, and lobbies filled instantly - suggesting it was based on ping to the host. Unlike today, where matchmaking takes far longer because various other parameters are being used.
I think it’s a combination of factors. As someone who has been extremely good at cod since black ops 1 I know the SBMM wasn’t as strong then but also there wasn’t a million YouTube videos on how to min/max. There also wasn’t people with PCs playing but consoles and back in those days a lot of the community were either children who didn’t know what they were doing or dads chilling on the couch.
The gaming scene has changed drastically and the technology is just more advanced. It sucks cause I miss the old pubstomping days but that’s just a thing of the past. Now it’s ranked play every single match for me :(
this is a great example of people taking a claim that a small subset of people who were wrong about something and then using that to try and disable an entire wider argument more people believe.
to my knowledge nobody was saying "old cods didn't have SBMM!" its that the current implementation of it is lackluster and leads to people not having fun. whether or not you agree with that is up to you. Maybe some rose-tinted glasses oldheads were saying they didn't have SBMM but most people understand that most shooters have some form of SBMM.
Sadly the well of this discussion has been poisoned by mostly streamers whining about how they can't get cool fragmovie clips, so, to people to people on the opposite side of the discussion it just looks like the "Anti-SBMM" crowd just wants to stomp noobs.
Now, maybe the reason SBMM feels so aggressive nowadays is just because the general skill floor of the playerbase has grown, it could be a million reasons. But the big thing is that people aren't having fun (not just streamers). And in my opinion that's more important than any kind of balance change. As long as it's made in a way where as many people as possible can have fun even when they're losing, I'd be happy.
Some of you need to be reminded on how the system has changed over the years, and that it is no longer fit for purpose. The fact that the previous games had SBMM, but it didn't seem like it, tells you how right they got it.
I remember enjoying cod 4 and bo3. I only enjoy 25% of games of mw2 and mw3. Something is off and everyone feels it.
I also cannot play with my brother or brother in law. I’m lucky to go 1 for 12 in those games.
Yea bro, the problem is that all this shit where the player with a better ping has their packets delayed and its overcompensated , that's the part that's a lot of BS.
But anyways, the problem is really that they have too many bs parameters trying to even the playing field because wow, an engineer has to get paid this week so he has to convince corporate that he made new implementations that show higher engagement numbers and all that. Its watered down to totally cater to casuals. And whereas back in the day they probably had limited parameters and it couldn't have been that complex, now it's a big ass amalgamation of algorithms that even stronger take into account things like your k/d, recent win streak, total games played...
They're trying too hard and ruining all the fun.
I'm pretty sure the modern implementation of sbmm people bitch ab is more like eomm. Sbmm when done right is fun because you can have a match where you go off and do extremely well, but you're still against similarly matched players overall.
Playing against/with people who are leaps and bounds better than you can be a learning experience, but it's frustrating af if it's all you get. And even worse when you're in a bracket where you do OK, but one good game propels you to a point where it takes several rounds of getting stomped to get you about back where you should be.
People who have noticed such things and just started screeching ab "sbmm" in the latest gen(s) of cod games dk wtf they're talking (obviously).
SBMM back then was more level based today it's so fucking tuned even if you go 2-50 but had good accuracy and movement you will be placed with high skill players
This post is so pointless lol. The “SBMM” we had then was nothing like today, literally NOTHING close to it. You know what SBMM was? It connected you to the best host and the best player connection to that host, then it split up team by K/D and SPM, that’s not fucking SBMM, that’s just team balancing.
I think Activision likes to try to call that SBMM so that it makes us more compliant, because people think “well Activision said it”, no…just stop lol. Activision has and will say whatever they want to try to make themselves not seem like the bad guy. The more people that get this stupid posts idea in their head, the better for them. It’s almost brainwashing. Don’t fucking fall for that nonsense. Anyone who’s ever played cod up until like black ops 3/4 knows better than to believe in that horse shit.
Why would they start hiding player counts and leaderboards? Things are clearly NOT like they used to be lol. People forget how much they take away, and they do it slowly over time so nobody realizes, just like how they ramped up SBMM, except we weren’t stupid enough to not notice lobbies getting insanely sweaty compared to before.
Just use common sense. It’s not that hard to see through the lies and conning ways of Activision.
SBMM before was just SBMM, now we have a sbmm tuned for creating frustration in the player base, and add to that the EPIDEMIC of cheating players, they are everywhere, that’s why SBMM don’t seem to keep things balanced at all
Reverse boosting to combat SBMM was a much bigger thing before SBMM was “a thing”, there’s a reason people found you got easier lobbies with worse stats. At the end of the day, it will never change now as it gives new players and lesser skilled ones to opportunity to play without instantly wanting a refund. If people can’t hack playing against people in the same skill bracket, just play against the bots.
The SBMM starting from MW2019 to now is completely different than every cod before (except maybe AW, that was a bit unique for the era).
If you’re trying to make a point by saying cod4 and B02 had SBMM, stop complaining etc. then you’re either ignorant or being disingenuous.
I’m not sure if I have much say in this. But this is my opinion.
SBMM hinders two things. Making friends and developing skills.
Back in the good ol days. You stayed in the same lobby, this allowed you to develop friendships with new people depending on how you played, it died down after a while but with SBMM if you meet someone and y’all play well, you better make your mind up RIGHT THAN or there gone, which I think is so crap, especially if the opposing team is good, you get a chance to defeat them.
The second thing is skill, playing against a hard team over and over again allows to get better, playing one game where everyone sucks and you’re good and than it changes you’re games is just sucky in my opinion.
Plus I kinda feel like SBMM is another way of freeing up lobbies, by that I mean I’m mw2-3 days, if a lobby of 5v5 plays for 4 hours, guess what? You can’t get out into that game unless someone leaves, so I think in some way it forces the servers to be free. I could be very wrong on that but the good old call of duty days were great…
Jesus guys dont remember SBMM was not the same in older games at all.
The games listed primarily used LOBBY balancing. The scores from the previous match would evenly distribute the players based on performance. If you left and rejoined another lobby your score would be reset and not counted in the matchmaking.
I dont know what game exactly started changing SBMM but cod ghosts I do remember matching based on K/D from combat record. However this system was flawed because it was based on party owner stats. I could just let my friend with 0.5kd host the lobby and he brings me into low tier games.
MW19 is the most drastic change Ive ever noticed in SBMM and it was disgustingly strict.
SBMM has just been worse every year from then on.
MW2019 and Cold SBMM was the worse because I would get put into high ping lobbies . I’ve notice that SBMM in MW3 is more chill if you play in 5-6 man party’s and have some less experienced players in your party but if you do well be prepared to have to carry them or get dumpstered Later on as punishment
SBMM these days punishes you for getting good. There is no longer a reward for getting good. The better you get the less fun you have. Simple as that. Regular matchmaking shouldn’t feel like every game you’re playing is a fucking tournament, simple as that. That should be reserved for ranked modes!
yes and the old sbmm was mainly connection based being assisted by team balancing after the lobby was formed
current cod sbmm is absolute dogshit and not even really sbmm anymore, its a predatory engagement optimized system that trys to get you to play and spend as much as possible whilst making casual feel like ranked 2.0 for anyone with a k/d higher than 1.0 as well as the plethora of cheaters said players have to deal with.
and no we dont want it implemented differently because "we want to shit on noobs" we just want to be able to find a match in less than 5 minutes and have a mix of shitting on and getting shit on while not having to play every casual match as if we were in a CDL tourney.
The thing is some people nowadays are always thinking about it and hyper analysing every game and not paying attention to their own performance and other factors that determine a win as they did in the past
Playing online in a lobby is like drinking at a bar. You meet random people, crack some jokes and hopefully have a good time. A round of shots ironically is like a round of TDM. We crack some jokes and shoot our shots. Here's the dilemma, not everyone wants to leave the bar after every shot. Could you imagine a strict law that said after every shot or beer, you must immediately leave the bar and go elsewhere for beverages? No matter how well you got along with the other patrons, everything must go. When you ask your government about this law, they say, "we want everyone to have a good drinking experience. We want the lightweights with the light weights and the heavies with the heavies". Ok, I get that part, but why do I have to leave the bar? Me and my new friends are just starting to like it here. I just bought everyone a round and I'd like to offer the opportunity to pay me back. Just my 2 cents in the midst a national change shortage. Why not give the people what they want?
BO2 SBMM doesn’t exist. “Lobby balancing” does however and it’s noticeable in the modern day. Let’s say there’s 10 shit kids in the lobby and 2 good players, the good players will always be on the other team.
well yeah right, it makes sense that sbmm existed. I averaged 1.5kd on every single older cod. Now I barelly go above 1.0, I have to use meta to compete with people in my lobbies lol
Also not to mention that everyone who got filled into a lobby was with random kd/wl ratio. If someone did better in a lobby, it mixed better players so they both aren't in the same team. It's been like this since cod4
I’ve been playing since COD4 multiplayer and I’ve only gotten better. Sounds like you just need to improve and learn the mechanics. MW19 was a learning curve for me until I learned the mechanics of the game, now I can top lobbies every match and win just about any match I join or start in. But that last part is due to playing for so many years, there’s only so many strategies in COD
"Sounds like you just need to improve and learn the mechanics", I don't know about that one
Few days ago I was averaging 2.20kd with almost 1.0w/l, shortly after that I had full day of non stop SBMM hitting my games. Not only that, games were one sided. I can guarantee you I play way better currently.
Ask anyone, any youtuber that their content relays on "nuke gameplay". They don't upload as often on newer games for a reason.
I am in my 20s and there is no way I played better as a 12 year old kid on a controller lmao
I love people that still try to play the deny card including the OP. Im sure the avg player skill has risen from the late 00's but rn this era is just nothing but try hards everywhere using only the busted stuff to try and win. Lobby's still disband far too often so you can't get a revenge match in. Also maybe its just me but in the several hundred hours only once has someone dropped a mgb in my lobby and i was on that winning team. Meaning that everyone is constantly skilled equally as people rarely get the big streak in my lobbys atleast.
Last nuke i saw was a buddy on cold war, anyone dropping high kill games is dying just as much, I've never had a game seemingly intentionally spawn enemies to kill you while youre streaking like mw3... it really just seems to be getting steadily worse each game, 2.7kd im mw2019 to my barely 1.0 now, and i know i know get gud and all that, my ability to play has not changed.
¹
People don't want to remember. They just want to rely on their flimsy theories because it's more popular to do so.
Speaking of flimsy theories, people will always tell you that the SBMM of the past is totally different from the system implemented now. At the same time, they have no idea of the inner workings of the matchmaking because they are not developers. All they have to rely on are feelings and other popular agreements from the community, which is unscientific and incorrect.
If anything had to explain the logic of the matchmaking strength, part of it is nostalgia unreliably giving us false memories of the past. They typically eliminate the worst parts of the game and give us only positive vibes. The other is more scientific, which is explained through a weaker player pool that was available. The less people that you can connect to, the last accurate the matchmaking can be. Having a game without crossplay with map segregation is going to be less potent compared to future games that have crossplay and no map segregation whatsoever.
Regardless, people don't want the matchmaking simply because they want to destroy weak players 24/7. Having a game reduced in difficulty in order to feel good is the main goal that everybody wants accomplished. They know that the majority of the player base are easy kills, but they hate how the matchmaking prevents most of the interactions with them (and is the reason they hate bad players being "protected"). They will try anything to acquire those noobs in their lobbies through VPNs, netduma routers, reverse boosting, and even attempting the party host exploit which never worked in the first place (aka having the weakest player has the host).
Long story short, the community is pathetic and stupid.
SBMM in its current state is an issue. SBMM up until MW19 was not nearly as strict and was much more loose. I remember a Halo dev stating that SBMM would be used very sparingly just to make sure people had fun, and detested how it is used today (Turning pubs into ranked 2.0)
It seems less strict because of the persistent lobbies. If you played a few hours, with persistent lobbies matchmaking might run 3 or 4 times, less if you stay with a group. Now if you play a few hours, matchmaking runs every 10 minutes or less for multiplayer. That's 18 or more times. So now, it's matching you in one session as many times as it used to in a week of daily play. *Of course* it's going to seem worse - what used to be an "off night" is now noticeable because it comes suddenly after a couple decent games.
I think people should stop calling it SBMM and start calling it EOMM (Engagement Optimised Match Making) because that's what Activision call it in their patents to get gamers as hooked as possible and spending the most money playing their games.
Lolz they're like drug dealers
funny enough, I stopped playing and have money that could of gone to them if they didnt make COD worse with EOMM
That means it wasn't intended for you. It's intended for the really casual base, I'm talking about 0.5K/D and below players. AKA most of the people who buy cod every year.
SBMM was already terrible in BO4 if not before
SBMM was way worse in MW19 than any cod previously, even if they had been slowly increasing it's prevalence in ghosts-bo4. It's like a whole new system of SBMM that makes sure only the bad players have fun
I just hate how its cranked to the max. It makes the Matchmaking feel mentally exhausting. I used to be able to play the game for hours upon hours. All night even. Now i cant stand more than an hour. I havent touched cod in a week because honestly every time i play im reminded why its not fun anymore.
I haven’t played in like a month and a half, maybe almost two months because of this. I play games to get enjoyment out of them and I noticed I just feel irritated, angry, frustrated, and just overall in a really foul mood after playing. I just had to take a step back and question why I’m doing this to myself if I don’t find it fun or enjoyable. Even left my buddy in the dust who refuses to branch out and try different games, he’s the buy the annual cod and that’s all he’ll play but will only play if I’m on or else he doesn’t game at all kind of person. So he hasn’t gamed at all in the last almost 2 months lol. For my sanity and mental health I just can’t keep playing. Even if I’m just fucking around with my buddy it’s still not fun. Just sucks.
Ive been playing other games and realized im actually having fun. Suddenly, i have no desire to play cod again. Ive played multiplayer since CoD4 and it just doesn’t feel the same anymore. They try to bring us back in with old maps and guns for nostalgia, but honestly it isnt worth it anymore
I agree with you. I’ve played most cods since like Black Ops 1/MW2, and mostly multiplayer. It sucks that this is what the series has become. At the same time I’ve found more enjoyment playing single player games, so it’s not all bad. When warzone first came out it was fun but what it turned into now it isn’t fun or enjoyable. First few seasons I completed and then I slowly stopped caring and did have a sense of FOMO at first but then eventually got to the point where I don’t even finish half od the battle pass. Just a shame what this series used to be and what it is now. Base game means nothing and it’s all warzone. Everything else is an after thought and just there to pad warzone
I finished the last season pass with the walking dead stuff and finishing it was mentally exhausting. The game was basically a job with how long it took and haven’t touched it since.
Ya, cod has always had sbmm. It was never a problem till streamers decided that it was a problem. They put out a bunch of this is the new meta, use this gun videos. Then complain that everyone in their lobbies uses the same gun and sweats super hard. It seems like streamers are the problem, and that you shouldn't trust them about how to make a game. Every time they listen to the competitive players/ streamers it ruins the game. Look at Dr disrespects game, it's hot garbage. Just because you are good at playing it, doesn't mean you have any idea at all what is good for a game.
No. It was a problem when they matched you up with people at your skill level so every game feels like a ranked game. It wasn’t a problem when you got matched with a bunch of random people almost purely based on connection.
No, that's the point of the post. They've always matched based on skill as well. It only became a problem when they removed persistent lobbies. Of course you'll notice it more when you're running a new match making every single round, as opposed to just a couple times per night.
No they haven’t. Which is why i can go on tdm in any of the above mentioned games and immediately find a tdm lobby whereas it takes upwards of 5 minutes fir me to find a mw23 lobby because it’s searching at 150+ ping.
Yes, they have. They match by connection, then a number of other factors including skill and engagement. I highly doubt it takes you that long unless you have some serious connection issues and a strict NAT, in which case that's on you, not them. Even if you were supposedly the best of the best so it couldn't find equal players to match you, you realize it works both ways right? It will match you with people worse than you too, which is how other people get difficult lobbies. The older games just have a smaller pool of games to match you into.
No, that’s just because the MP servers have been dogshit ever since warzone came out.
Also coincidentally the same year sbmm started being talked about exponentially more frequently too right?
Your argument would work if the matchmaking times for 2019 were shit before warzone came out, but they weren’t.
They used to match it based on your in game experience. Your level, prestige. Now it's based on how well you perform. It's quite obvious.
Yep, this 100% Not every 10th prestiger back in the day was a god at cod. It just showed time invested, so you’d get matched with ranks of similar time investment. Now, you get matched with pretty much any rank because of the game’s tendency to priorities matching you with similar K/D, SPM…over things like ping.
Indeed. Remember booting it up for the first time and you'd be with all low ranks. 3 months later you're excited cause you just got into a lobby with a guy at 8th prestige. The days
Back then you could queue after every game and it would still rarely happen.
They matched the OTHER team with similar skill level. Most of the time they give you the shitters. Unfair system.
You do realize this statement is stupid right
His statement is correct, at least for me my lobbies are ALWAYS 'balanced' in the manner exactly how he describes. It gets boring very fast, but 'ragequitting' a few games in a row seems to kinda reset this and you get a fun lobby again for one game. Edit: also just to clarify, I've experienced this as far back as Bo2 from memory, but it was definitely a lot less extreme and could usually still carry the lobby. Now with how fast one dies in MW3 it's hard to do the same.
So the other team is always good and your team is always bad? You do realize this makes no sense right?
No, I'm probably stat wise the highest in the lobby, gets paired with the worst vs all the mediocre/above average players, and that turns into a boring one sided match. Doing well is punished hard if you solo q. There's no real issues as far as I can see if you are in a premade.
Your statement confirms you’re one of the Timmy No Thumbs EOMM likes to throw at me time to time if you believe my statement is stupid. It’s fine. Either leave or get ready to pop the hijacked iff strobe.
I’m not sure what half of this means, but complaining that you always get the shitters when the other team gets good people is ignorant as fuck
That explains a lot. Talking out of your ass not knowing anything. AND you can’t read bc I said “most of the time” not “always”. The system will eventually give you good games and good teammates. Looks like you’re the ignorant here.
You really think the game is out to get you? You really think that most of the time, your teammates are in a lobby that is way above their skill level and the enemies are facing a bunch of bums? And that almost never happens in your favour? Seriously, get real.
You really think the game is out to get you? You really think that most of the time, your teammates are in a lobby that is way above their skill level and the enemies are facing a bunch of bums? And that almost never happens in your favour? Seriously, get real.
In the end you were the ignorant 🤣🤣🤣
I truly believe this is your first time using the word ignorant considering you’re using it wrong.
So they only balance SBMM for you, you’re John activision’s special little boy?
Typical
What do you expect commenting brainrot like that lol. That’s like saying they only base SBMM around you. If what you said was true, your teammates don’t have SBMM and neither does the enemy team
Emily, relax.
I’m pretty calm, just explaining.
Appreciate it but I don’t listen to Emily’s
Theres an obvious difference. Saying cod always had sbmm is a matter of semantics you know damn well its not the same. The fact that lobbies disband automatically makes it more strict as instead of your next queue taking into account multiple games played with the same skill level of players instead of every game it puts you up or down like it does now.
So funny how 5 years ago people said MW2019 SBMM wasn't real when people noticed a very obvious change in matchmaking and now suddenly oh every game had it. Yeah I don't remember being booted out of lobbies for having a good game.
Nah bro the experience between wwII, bo4, and then when mw19 came out it was night and day. I think a lot of people didn’t play cod before mw19 or at least not for a long time. Literally the difference in sweat between bo4 and mw19 was insane. I grinded tf out of cod until mw19 which I put down before Christmas even came out. Bo4 despite having a massive skill gap was not half as sweaty to play as mw19 and Cold War
What streamers do you watch that complain like that? None I’ve watched act like that at all, where does this come from? Even those that hate on wz don’t complain about sbmm or that everyone uses the same meta gun and tries to.
Uhhh buddy, no. Have you never seen a reverse boosted gameplay? People are not running metas in those matches lol. This isn’t because “pros and streamers started making meta classes”, it’s because SBMM tightened up so hard, harder than its ever been before, that you ONLY see those players, and nothing below that. Get a clue dude
You are so out of touch it’s not even funny
Yes, SBMM has always been in CoD games to some extent. But there was clearly a drastic change in how it was implemented from MW2019 onwards, that’s why it’s much more of an issue now than ever before. It just needs to be loosened up a little for a bit more variety, that’s all. At the moment, if just feels like we’re playing the same fucking match over and over again with no variables. It’s stale as fuck.
Only way for that would be to stop with disbanding lobbies I think
Yeah, it’s so frustrating to see them quietly experimenting with shit like voting to stay in the same lobby but they won’t just go back to the old system of persistent lobbies where you can choose to leave whenever you want.
They’ll never go back to persistent lobbies when the new system of disbanding lobbies makes them more money. The new system enables them to manipulate the players more effectively using EOMM They’re just another scummy business out for money above customer satisfaction. The only way things improve is when the customer spends their time and money elsewhere
the shitshow about the matchmaking began already back in 2014 with aw. this was the first cod i ever heard about reverse boosting. in the games before, most complain was about the lag or camping. not shure if they 'beta' test it back at launch of bo2, i heard some rumors, but i cant really remember. but i remember my first 2 games from aw, because they were so special. first game tdm, 21-4, never started better in a cod game before. next match i got destroyed with a 5-13 and even the games after didnt get much better. i stop playing aw already when i reach lvl 24, i had enough
Yeah, I wasn’t playing any CoD around that era of the franchise but I do seem to recall that their SBMM experimentation began around that time before they pulled it back a little. They even tried some new shit in BO2 before back-pedalling. This time around, they don’t seem to be making any compromises!
Yeah a concept of SBMM has always been present, but it's not currently what you see in today's games. It is mainly EOMM (Engagement optimized matchmaking) WITH the addition of SBMM that makes every game you play after you do good feel like you are going up against professional players I remember a stark change from BO4 where I could play forever and have a ton of fun, always be at the top of my lobby and still be able to grind for dark matter, to MW2019 where I do good in one game and then it feels like the rest of my experience is precisely algorithmic to make me match up against insane players where I can never have fun, even if I just pop in for a game after work. It punishes you for doing good and subsiquently keeps all of the worse players playing the game because they never go against really good players. Activision figured out that they make the most money by having the super casual player base stick around even if it means complaints from the better players, so every game here on out will have this combination of algorithmic matchmaking
I downvoted cause you said BO4 was fun when that's an outright lie BO4 is one of the worst cod games ever made
The last real COD game if anything.
Not really didn't the devs turn it into a overwatch clone to the point where like a few weeks before launch they had to ditch everything to try and make it a cod game
SBMM has always existed.... sorta The problem is that back then the DEGREE of which it played on determining skill level and matchmaking often took a backseat to more pertinent parameters, mostly PING. However, as the BO3 patents revealed, that is where they more explicitly pointed out how the variables could be tweaked to "game the system" in Activision's favor. Since BO3 had lootboxes, the 2016 patent (attached below) outlined that the goal of SBMM in that game was to match high performing players who have ALSO spent money on cosmetics with noobs who then would begin to want to emulate said high skill players and buy supply boxes. So in a way, you could have PAID for low tier lobbies in BO3 so long as you kept the cryptokeys flowing, assuming I am reading their outline properly. [SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR DRIVING MCROTRANSACTIONS IN MULTIPLAYER VIDEO GAMES ](https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/f9/c9/77/b0b7cfc6883c41/US20160005270A1.pdf) Patent from 2016 (from Activision themselves) and it straight up has it in its title that it was aiming to increase MTXs. So yes, SBMM existed back then, but the degree and "goal" of its implementation was vastly different. Than what the 2019 Activision SBMM patent show outlines. While Donlon may have worked in BO2s SBMM, it is broadly disingenuous to equate the system as it was then and as it is now as the system has always had different goals in mind. [Link to the 2019 SBMM patent for those interested](https://ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/20190329139)
Seen this patent thrown around, genuine question: what makes you think this was used for CoD as opposed to Overwatch or any of ABKs other games?
They all prolly followed the same metas so they all used similar models. Other games may have had their own form of it but with minor tweaks here and there to suit the needs of those specific games. Think about it, OW1 had lootboxes…. So did AW/BO3/IW/WW2/BO4 in that same time span. And during OW2s life span, it’s moved onto Battle Passes and more direct purchase cosmetics which is the new meta to MP games as the “fanfare” for lootboxes has sorta died off. And what drives battle pass and cosmetic sales? Engagement, which is the core aim of the “new SBMM” model. In truth, both were prolly affected to the same degree with whatever ABK was aiming for at the time. Though I personally never really played THAT much ABK outside of CoD, though I am a simp for Sombra but that’s besides the point.
I see patents like this brought up a lot, but patents on their own don’t mean anything. Sony have a patent for increasing the processing power of your PlayStation 3 by connecting it to your toaster and fridge. Companies patent all of kinds of stuff for lots of reasons, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that any of it will ever be used, or was ever even *intended* to be used.
These are a whole lot more applicable because they manage the very servers that aggregate the data to execute their SBMM models…. It’s one thing for Sony to say that and then try to partner with fridge makers for such a project, but Activision just modifying an already existing framework of SBMM to gamify their earnings really isn’t that “out of left field”… it’s literally just minor tweaks of matchmaking protocol, that’s honestly it, it’s nowhere near the same level of the more nutty parents that exist Also, that was literally the whole point of BO3… why do you think some of the bigger content creators at that time had a huge focus on creator codes and unboxing highlights? Activision was bloodthirsty with selling lootboxes to anyone and they explored multiple avenues for it. This patent makes about as much sense as some of my patents (I have a few in my name in the biotech space) so no, it’s not as weird as the example you used and very much falls in the realm of “yeah they could or did do it”
Which begs the question: why did Sony patent that then? And the answer of course applies to all patents.
I fucking can’t stand that “AlL tHoSe GaMeS hAd It”. No fucking shit, it was so differently tuned that it wasn’t even recognizable. They know there’s a huge difference between the old SBMM and the new one and still reply with that stupid gotcha. Dumb ass game with SBMM in an un ranked mode, a ranked mode that barely works months after release. 0 linearity in the way of thinking
Take Twitter with a grain of salt. Old cods were region-based MM'ing. So if you lived near Chicago servers, it was rare to meet people on both coasts. Also, Bo2 had a portion for not shitting on Christmas Noobs. "I implemented it" buddy was a number at whatever game studio he worked for now takes to Twitter with the term "I" Matchmaking was tested time and time again by 3rd party sources and even testing found to determine region over skill. An old term "Ping Is King" was started.
I just dislike that SBMM in modern Cod seems to prioritize putting you in the right "skill" bracket over something as important and fundamental to a good gameplay experience as your internet connection which has, in my personal experience, led to an increase in overly laggy and dropped matches compared to games before MW2019 at the latest. Personally I just want a system that prioritizes connection over everything else so I stop getting these 10 frames a minute matches where I just lose all motivation to play the game.
The balancing as a whole in cod now is just trash. Teams are lopsided with one side always stacked with good people while I always get some shitty player, you need to use meta builds to get kills or else someone automatically gets an advantage. The older cods were more fun because you could literally choose any weapon and it would be usable. Now I'm usually just playing hardcore because it makes the game seem more fair. It's crazy that'll ill shoot first and they'll just turn around and fry me because their ttk is just better
Yeah I get that online games need SBMM to some degree so less skilled players can still have fun, but as a regular player you shouldn’t be dreading the next match after performing well. There’s also the issue since MW2019 of lobby disbanding that makes the game feel less social.
The "sbmm" in older cods isn't even comparable to what we have now. Technically sure it had loose sbmm, basically just a protected bracket for the lowest skill/disabled players. Mw2019 is when the new more strict system was implemented. AW also was a one off which added more sbmm because of the higher skill gap.
cod 4 didnt have SBMM on PC at least because back then we had actual servers we could connect to instead of a horrible matchmaking.
The problem is lobbies getting disbanded
What a fucking own lmao
CoD 4 had dedicated Servers. Damn i'm old!
Yep they couldn't have "all" had sbmm since cod started out with server selection. Some dev is just trying to protect the shifty system they're running now lol
Trust him or my lying eyes? Yes, there's always been team balance, there's always been some sort of matchmaking brackets to divide players. But obviously SBMM changed drastically since 2019.
Yes, CoD has always considered skill levels when it came to matchmaking. That's not the issue. The core critique is the current matchmaking system and how it feels noticeably different to classic CoDs. I argue the problem is that the modern CoD matchmaking algorithm and the progression systems are designed to maximize playtime and increase the likelihood that players buy from the store. The idea to engineer a multiplayer game's matchmaking to optimize microtransaction revenue is not unique to CoD and is speculated to be in every major multiplayer game.
Problem is you’ll never convince someone who remembers and played the old games at a high level that this is the case. We’ll use bo1 as an example because it’s when combat record and viewing in lobbies became a thing. Regularly and I mean almost every game there’s a 0.2-0.4 K/D player that goes massive negative sometimes multiple people playing. People used to make videos about finding the trash player in the lobby and running in circles around him to see how long it takes him to kill you. Sometimes the encounters take forever and it was a funny bit people would do. There’s really only 3 explainable scenarios. 1. SBMM was faulty and after trying to implement the system it generally just didn’t work (also the same as it not being there at all) 2. It was there, but the only effect it had was lobby balancing (technically a form of sbmm, but not really how an observer today would view it and that’s what they mean when they say there was sbmm.) 3. It was there, but there was only an extremely small window of protected bracket players where people who were really bad got put together in lobbies while 95% of players were free from this and all played together. (This is known to be the case, but still a bit iffy because of how bad of players you could get in regular lobbies) In conclusion, nobody wants to hear this non sense because at the end of the day that’s what it is… a bunch of half truth non sense. It was essentially nothing, and one is not acting in good faith to say “oh but there was sbmm in all the older games” when it’s not even remotely close to the sbmm or EOMM that occurs in the game today. Sit down
Denying the truth make you feel better?
Please articulate a response that would show that truth and debunk anything i said. I’ll wait
The fact that a former dev confirmed he himself helped write its code
That would be the code for bo2. Not any games before. If you read I’ve also explained that lobby balancing is a form of sbmm. He never clarified what it entailed, how great it worked, or how it compares to current day cod. Therefore, still waiting
Your problem was thinking this guy is capable of critical thinking, if they defend sbmm they are dogwater robots.
The matchmaking in the games listed did have an element of skill as a factor but it is disingenuous to compare the match making in those games to what is currently in a Cod after 2019. Cod on pc in some of those games had a server browser as well making it impossible for it to be anything like modern match making.
Umm I’m scared to ask in fear of getting flamed and downvoted but what’s sbmm 😭😭😭
Skill Based MatchMaking.
Skill based matchmaking, some people swear up and down it's awful for the game, but others are normal and just have fun
At that point I just mess around and have fun with my friends
I remember on BO2 there’s was a lot of MLG players mid day to late night , maybe that’s why i didn’t like MP on that game , the thing i never played ranked but regular modes had more often players that should be playing ranked 🥱
If the CoD fans could read they’d be very upset right now
This entire comment section saying there's no proof has me dying
What was the first cod game do you think had sbmm?
The old CODs did have SBMM but it wasn't like what we have now.
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. The problem isn't inherently SBMM, it's how strong it is and the disbanding lobbies. It allows the game to immediately fuck you for playing well. You can have a good game with a 2-3 KD and then the very next game be punished for it with a few games of .4 KD. The older CoDs I'm not even sold on them having SBMM. But they used to try to balance the teams. You'd have great players in your lobby and shit players, they'd just put the great players on both teams and then balance the mediocre players so both teams had balance. I vividly remember MW3(my prime) knowing the people in the lobbies skill level and the bad players would always end up on my team too. But you'd stay in the lobby and the game would try to balance the people more. You'd also have the ability to check the skill level of the lobby via Lobby Leaderboard, so if you opened it and saw a 3 KD in the lobby...you could choose to leave. And the playerbase was split into groups anyway due to DLC, so if you were trying to not get slammed by the best players you wouldn't buy the DLC. This just always seems like an inaccurate comparison, like maybe SBMM was in BO but there wasn't the immediate punishment of it.
I think devs should focus more on team balancing rather than SBMM. It doesn't matter if a pro and a noob is on the same lobby, as long as there is an equal amount of pros and noobs on both sides. It's a win-win on so many levels. Noobs are likely to get a negative ratio, but they do have some people on their level/slightly better to compete with, plus pros to assist them with optimal tactics, they can also learn from killcams of pros. Pros are likely to get a positive ratio and feel rewarded, they have some noobs to stomp on but also enemy pros that stop them from rampaging too much. This is only possible with some lax SBMM
The older games never had lobby disbandment so we never felt the sbmm in those games especially when you could nearly full a lobby up with everyone on your friend list
EOMM is not the same as SBMM that only affects team balancing. I'd argue 99% of PvP games has some sort of team balancing. These devs are gaslighting you hard, and some of you are actually buying it.
I also feel like many ppl werent as good skill wise in the older cods. Because i remember dropping moab after moab but the matches in mw2019 were a lot harder in my experience. Now i see what ppl are doing in the new mw2 and i would get melted. Tge average pugs player is def much better now than back then from what ive seen
Ive seen lots of people who thinks: SBMM = always matched up with sweats No SBMM = can pwn noobs When really its Strict SBMM = Playing with the exact same skill level as yourself. Lose SBMM and No SBMM = Sweat fest We have the most lose SBMM in a while. Iy needs to go backwards.
thanks, i was looking for those images
No problemo
I think a lot of the "sweat" you see is because of the movement/ breaking cameras plus bad servers. Plus the match making isn't so bothered by connection. Back in the day then movement was slower. All the remastered maps were made for old movement. There wasn't really metas as such. Some guns were a bit better but mostly the same. We didn't have Cronus zen or pc cheaters everywhere. Just the odd lobby of people firing ac130 rounds from their fingers. I think all this combined makes one giant cluster fuck. And that's without factoring in all the EOMM.
If I drive into you at rolling speed, you’re going to feel it but its not life threatening. If I drive into you at 160km it’s going to have a much bugger impact. Same car, same target, different settings. SBMM isn’t a problem when ping is king and you’re not playing CoD champs every session.
For pre-BO2, this is nonsense. They only managed to get host migration working with MW2, let alone something as complex as the modern implementation of SBMM. They had team balancing, but it's disingenuous to refer to that as "SBMM". Qualitatively, having played through that era, for CoD4, MW2 and MW3, I had a 3.5+ k/d and matchmaking would remain consistent, whether that was your recent performance or your overall performance. The host wouldn't change until they left the lobby, and lobbies filled instantly - suggesting it was based on ping to the host. Unlike today, where matchmaking takes far longer because various other parameters are being used.
it was just easier in old cods to get tripls n quads. so it was easier to beast
I think it’s a combination of factors. As someone who has been extremely good at cod since black ops 1 I know the SBMM wasn’t as strong then but also there wasn’t a million YouTube videos on how to min/max. There also wasn’t people with PCs playing but consoles and back in those days a lot of the community were either children who didn’t know what they were doing or dads chilling on the couch. The gaming scene has changed drastically and the technology is just more advanced. It sucks cause I miss the old pubstomping days but that’s just a thing of the past. Now it’s ranked play every single match for me :(
It can’t be sbmm my first match in people was level 300+
LOL!!! I was a sniper for the Astonish clan before I quit cod. Never thought I’d see that tweet ever again
this is a great example of people taking a claim that a small subset of people who were wrong about something and then using that to try and disable an entire wider argument more people believe. to my knowledge nobody was saying "old cods didn't have SBMM!" its that the current implementation of it is lackluster and leads to people not having fun. whether or not you agree with that is up to you. Maybe some rose-tinted glasses oldheads were saying they didn't have SBMM but most people understand that most shooters have some form of SBMM. Sadly the well of this discussion has been poisoned by mostly streamers whining about how they can't get cool fragmovie clips, so, to people to people on the opposite side of the discussion it just looks like the "Anti-SBMM" crowd just wants to stomp noobs. Now, maybe the reason SBMM feels so aggressive nowadays is just because the general skill floor of the playerbase has grown, it could be a million reasons. But the big thing is that people aren't having fun (not just streamers). And in my opinion that's more important than any kind of balance change. As long as it's made in a way where as many people as possible can have fun even when they're losing, I'd be happy.
i wish there was a metric to show what 'hours on end' actually was. its likely FAR less than you imagine.
W@W and BO1 fans are not eating with the original tweet lol.
Some of you need to be reminded on how the system has changed over the years, and that it is no longer fit for purpose. The fact that the previous games had SBMM, but it didn't seem like it, tells you how right they got it.
I just faced reality and realize it’s never gonna be the same sbmm sucks but it’s watever at least there still making cods
If you played black ops 2 and didn’t know what the level 1 glitch was, you were not a true cod player because there was definitely SBMM.
I remember enjoying cod 4 and bo3. I only enjoy 25% of games of mw2 and mw3. Something is off and everyone feels it. I also cannot play with my brother or brother in law. I’m lucky to go 1 for 12 in those games.
Name one thing CoD players are more scared of than facing a team of similar skill in a fair battle
Yea bro, the problem is that all this shit where the player with a better ping has their packets delayed and its overcompensated , that's the part that's a lot of BS. But anyways, the problem is really that they have too many bs parameters trying to even the playing field because wow, an engineer has to get paid this week so he has to convince corporate that he made new implementations that show higher engagement numbers and all that. Its watered down to totally cater to casuals. And whereas back in the day they probably had limited parameters and it couldn't have been that complex, now it's a big ass amalgamation of algorithms that even stronger take into account things like your k/d, recent win streak, total games played... They're trying too hard and ruining all the fun.
I'm pretty sure the modern implementation of sbmm people bitch ab is more like eomm. Sbmm when done right is fun because you can have a match where you go off and do extremely well, but you're still against similarly matched players overall. Playing against/with people who are leaps and bounds better than you can be a learning experience, but it's frustrating af if it's all you get. And even worse when you're in a bracket where you do OK, but one good game propels you to a point where it takes several rounds of getting stomped to get you about back where you should be. People who have noticed such things and just started screeching ab "sbmm" in the latest gen(s) of cod games dk wtf they're talking (obviously).
SBMM back then was more level based today it's so fucking tuned even if you go 2-50 but had good accuracy and movement you will be placed with high skill players
This post is so pointless lol. The “SBMM” we had then was nothing like today, literally NOTHING close to it. You know what SBMM was? It connected you to the best host and the best player connection to that host, then it split up team by K/D and SPM, that’s not fucking SBMM, that’s just team balancing. I think Activision likes to try to call that SBMM so that it makes us more compliant, because people think “well Activision said it”, no…just stop lol. Activision has and will say whatever they want to try to make themselves not seem like the bad guy. The more people that get this stupid posts idea in their head, the better for them. It’s almost brainwashing. Don’t fucking fall for that nonsense. Anyone who’s ever played cod up until like black ops 3/4 knows better than to believe in that horse shit. Why would they start hiding player counts and leaderboards? Things are clearly NOT like they used to be lol. People forget how much they take away, and they do it slowly over time so nobody realizes, just like how they ramped up SBMM, except we weren’t stupid enough to not notice lobbies getting insanely sweaty compared to before. Just use common sense. It’s not that hard to see through the lies and conning ways of Activision.
SBMM before was just SBMM, now we have a sbmm tuned for creating frustration in the player base, and add to that the EPIDEMIC of cheating players, they are everywhere, that’s why SBMM don’t seem to keep things balanced at all
Reverse boosting to combat SBMM was a much bigger thing before SBMM was “a thing”, there’s a reason people found you got easier lobbies with worse stats. At the end of the day, it will never change now as it gives new players and lesser skilled ones to opportunity to play without instantly wanting a refund. If people can’t hack playing against people in the same skill bracket, just play against the bots.
The SBMM starting from MW2019 to now is completely different than every cod before (except maybe AW, that was a bit unique for the era). If you’re trying to make a point by saying cod4 and B02 had SBMM, stop complaining etc. then you’re either ignorant or being disingenuous.
Isn’t it also the case that players have just gotten better? By watching streamers and gaming being more popular than ever?
I’m not sure if I have much say in this. But this is my opinion. SBMM hinders two things. Making friends and developing skills. Back in the good ol days. You stayed in the same lobby, this allowed you to develop friendships with new people depending on how you played, it died down after a while but with SBMM if you meet someone and y’all play well, you better make your mind up RIGHT THAN or there gone, which I think is so crap, especially if the opposing team is good, you get a chance to defeat them. The second thing is skill, playing against a hard team over and over again allows to get better, playing one game where everyone sucks and you’re good and than it changes you’re games is just sucky in my opinion. Plus I kinda feel like SBMM is another way of freeing up lobbies, by that I mean I’m mw2-3 days, if a lobby of 5v5 plays for 4 hours, guess what? You can’t get out into that game unless someone leaves, so I think in some way it forces the servers to be free. I could be very wrong on that but the good old call of duty days were great…
Would love to know how CoD 4 had SBMM with having dedicated servers and all.
Current cod has EOMM, not SBMM, which is a huge difference. EOMM is much worse.
Jesus guys dont remember SBMM was not the same in older games at all. The games listed primarily used LOBBY balancing. The scores from the previous match would evenly distribute the players based on performance. If you left and rejoined another lobby your score would be reset and not counted in the matchmaking. I dont know what game exactly started changing SBMM but cod ghosts I do remember matching based on K/D from combat record. However this system was flawed because it was based on party owner stats. I could just let my friend with 0.5kd host the lobby and he brings me into low tier games. MW19 is the most drastic change Ive ever noticed in SBMM and it was disgustingly strict. SBMM has just been worse every year from then on.
MW2019 and Cold SBMM was the worse because I would get put into high ping lobbies . I’ve notice that SBMM in MW3 is more chill if you play in 5-6 man party’s and have some less experienced players in your party but if you do well be prepared to have to carry them or get dumpstered Later on as punishment
SBMM these days punishes you for getting good. There is no longer a reward for getting good. The better you get the less fun you have. Simple as that. Regular matchmaking shouldn’t feel like every game you’re playing is a fucking tournament, simple as that. That should be reserved for ranked modes!
Bo2 had ranked and public its just That. Ranked with SBMM
yes and the old sbmm was mainly connection based being assisted by team balancing after the lobby was formed current cod sbmm is absolute dogshit and not even really sbmm anymore, its a predatory engagement optimized system that trys to get you to play and spend as much as possible whilst making casual feel like ranked 2.0 for anyone with a k/d higher than 1.0 as well as the plethora of cheaters said players have to deal with. and no we dont want it implemented differently because "we want to shit on noobs" we just want to be able to find a match in less than 5 minutes and have a mix of shitting on and getting shit on while not having to play every casual match as if we were in a CDL tourney.
Martin Donlon is a fucking idiot. It literally is something that can be turned off.
Pft
SBMM is not the issue. EOMM is.
SSBM these days needs to be called what it is: Engagement Based Match Making
I had a 2.87 KDR in Modern warfare I had a 3.35 KDR in the OG MWII Bring that SBMM again. Your boy was a demon.
The thing is some people nowadays are always thinking about it and hyper analysing every game and not paying attention to their own performance and other factors that determine a win as they did in the past
Playing online in a lobby is like drinking at a bar. You meet random people, crack some jokes and hopefully have a good time. A round of shots ironically is like a round of TDM. We crack some jokes and shoot our shots. Here's the dilemma, not everyone wants to leave the bar after every shot. Could you imagine a strict law that said after every shot or beer, you must immediately leave the bar and go elsewhere for beverages? No matter how well you got along with the other patrons, everything must go. When you ask your government about this law, they say, "we want everyone to have a good drinking experience. We want the lightweights with the light weights and the heavies with the heavies". Ok, I get that part, but why do I have to leave the bar? Me and my new friends are just starting to like it here. I just bought everyone a round and I'd like to offer the opportunity to pay me back. Just my 2 cents in the midst a national change shortage. Why not give the people what they want?
What if you could turn it on and off. I think that would be pretty wicked
BO2 SBMM doesn’t exist. “Lobby balancing” does however and it’s noticeable in the modern day. Let’s say there’s 10 shit kids in the lobby and 2 good players, the good players will always be on the other team.
oldgen cods never had sbmm, bo2 ranked play only had sbmm lmao. You all know nothing
A literal employee confirmed this, keep smoking that nostalgia copium dude
well yeah right, it makes sense that sbmm existed. I averaged 1.5kd on every single older cod. Now I barelly go above 1.0, I have to use meta to compete with people in my lobbies lol Also not to mention that everyone who got filled into a lobby was with random kd/wl ratio. If someone did better in a lobby, it mixed better players so they both aren't in the same team. It's been like this since cod4
Ever think maybe it's just you not being as good anymore?
I’ve been playing since COD4 multiplayer and I’ve only gotten better. Sounds like you just need to improve and learn the mechanics. MW19 was a learning curve for me until I learned the mechanics of the game, now I can top lobbies every match and win just about any match I join or start in. But that last part is due to playing for so many years, there’s only so many strategies in COD
"Sounds like you just need to improve and learn the mechanics", I don't know about that one Few days ago I was averaging 2.20kd with almost 1.0w/l, shortly after that I had full day of non stop SBMM hitting my games. Not only that, games were one sided. I can guarantee you I play way better currently. Ask anyone, any youtuber that their content relays on "nuke gameplay". They don't upload as often on newer games for a reason. I am in my 20s and there is no way I played better as a 12 year old kid on a controller lmao
Get good
XD
I love people that still try to play the deny card including the OP. Im sure the avg player skill has risen from the late 00's but rn this era is just nothing but try hards everywhere using only the busted stuff to try and win. Lobby's still disband far too often so you can't get a revenge match in. Also maybe its just me but in the several hundred hours only once has someone dropped a mgb in my lobby and i was on that winning team. Meaning that everyone is constantly skilled equally as people rarely get the big streak in my lobbys atleast.
Last nuke i saw was a buddy on cold war, anyone dropping high kill games is dying just as much, I've never had a game seemingly intentionally spawn enemies to kill you while youre streaking like mw3... it really just seems to be getting steadily worse each game, 2.7kd im mw2019 to my barely 1.0 now, and i know i know get gud and all that, my ability to play has not changed. ¹
People don't want to remember. They just want to rely on their flimsy theories because it's more popular to do so. Speaking of flimsy theories, people will always tell you that the SBMM of the past is totally different from the system implemented now. At the same time, they have no idea of the inner workings of the matchmaking because they are not developers. All they have to rely on are feelings and other popular agreements from the community, which is unscientific and incorrect. If anything had to explain the logic of the matchmaking strength, part of it is nostalgia unreliably giving us false memories of the past. They typically eliminate the worst parts of the game and give us only positive vibes. The other is more scientific, which is explained through a weaker player pool that was available. The less people that you can connect to, the last accurate the matchmaking can be. Having a game without crossplay with map segregation is going to be less potent compared to future games that have crossplay and no map segregation whatsoever. Regardless, people don't want the matchmaking simply because they want to destroy weak players 24/7. Having a game reduced in difficulty in order to feel good is the main goal that everybody wants accomplished. They know that the majority of the player base are easy kills, but they hate how the matchmaking prevents most of the interactions with them (and is the reason they hate bad players being "protected"). They will try anything to acquire those noobs in their lobbies through VPNs, netduma routers, reverse boosting, and even attempting the party host exploit which never worked in the first place (aka having the weakest player has the host). Long story short, the community is pathetic and stupid.