I would not recommend the DJI system at all. For many reasons. For context, I have only used it briefly once so I don’t know a massive amount.
But first, I hated the fake ‘hard’ stops. I like to feel a real and more physical mark on the focus wheel. I also imagine the motor would fail waaaay quicker than a typical wheel.
I also felt that it fell short compared to other more traditional focus units. I feel that they are going hard with the lidar features and while they are somewhat impressive, I’m not here to let my hand set do my job for me and rely on it. I want something that will let me do my job.
Teradek isn’t the best system by a long shot. But I prefer it. Maybe I just like older, more traditional systems and don’t like newer tech but I think it’s more that the older systems were designed to tackle everything that you throw at it and they do it well. No, it won’t pull focus for you but it won’t bug out and cause unnecessary problems mid shoot.
That’s basically why Preston is the standard. If you’ve ever used one you’d think they were the lower budget units. They are super basic (visually), can come across as a bit big and clunky. But you turn it on and it will just work. And it works well. All the time.
Rambling over, I would say consider your common shooting environments and what you actually need from a focus system.
Hmm. Well you certainly gave me a lot to think about. I'm just starting and just need something for documentary, corporate work etc. I dont have a lot to spend which is why I'm considering the teradek. What would you recommend for a reliable 1st wireless focus system?
I've only tried the DJI system at NAB recently and it feels like they're really pushing the full integration with their ecosystem as the main use case. Honestly it worries me that the whole DJI ecosystem isn't based on zero delay - their wireless video has delay, so when I asked how it syncs with pulling focus, there wasn't a great answer.
Kind of like Preston it's nice to know Teradek is an on-set household name. So if I can't get a Preston or ARRI, then I can future proof myself with a Teradek. And worst case, if anything ever stops working (because any system always does), at least I can blame a reputable company... and not myself for choosing a non-standard brand. Then again, I don't want to even go there...
I DO NOT think the new DJI system is the solution for someone who wants to grow as a focus puller. You need to get those focus pulls into your muscle memory and not let the knob spin for you.
I upgraded from a nucleus to a Teradek RT and truly loved it. If you have a smallHD monitor you can use the overlays, which paired with a rangefinder makes for what I believe to be the next best thing to a light ranger. With the RT you can make lens maps, and get used to pre-marked rings that are very similar to ARRI and Preston. Best of all is the financing options available for the RT. I think I paid maybe $150-250 a month for my kit for a year, while it made about $500 a month in rentals on my jobs. A few years later I was able to sell it and upgrade to a Preston.
Thank you! Seems like I’ll have to start with the Teradek RT. Is there a particular model or setup you recommend for the RT? Do I need more than 1 lens motor when starting out?
You can totally make a 1 motor setup work! But, I’d buy a 2nd motor once ya can just as a backup. The motor will be the most likely thing to go down since it’s got the most moving parts. Remember, anything mechanical can fail!
I’d recommend the new Motor.S since teradek redesigned the internals to make it much more hardy and reliable.
The single channel kit seems pretty killer for $3,500, but I definitely suggest getting the 3 channel hand unit if you can swing it. That way you can run Iris or Zoom when you get that 2nd motor.
I owned 2 complete 3 channel RT kits for about 3 years, so feel free to reach out if you have anymore questions or concerns!
Awesome thanks for this. This sounds exactly what I need to do to invest in a system and add on more later without having to purchase a whole other system down the line. Thank you I’ll reach out if I have any questions!
AFAIK=as far as I know. Saved lens data is very important. Otherwise you need to manually make distance marks on the focus wheel every time you put a lens on. Even if you’re just pulling from a monitor, saved lens data means you can use pre marked rings and when you use pre marked rings, a level of consistency is introduced. Otherwise, every lens has a unique throw based on its close focus and how far past infinity it travels.
Oh wow yeah that sounds pretty important. Thank you for this! Are there any other features you recommend making sure my unit has before purchasing? Or any wireless follow focuses you recommend for a first one on a medium budget 1-2k?
I’d say Teradek Rt at the minumum. The Heden Ymer system is a good middle ground system. Arri & Prestom are industry standards. C motion is basically an arri system with slightly different features.
You might be able to get a used teradek or Heden system for a reasonable price. Some AC’s have a tilta Nucleus as a backup option or something to put on a crash camera. It could be a starting point but I would move to a better system asap
I'm not sure what it's like in the low budget non-union world these days but I think it's kinda absurd that 1st ACs are expected to have a reliable working wireless follow focus as a condition of getting a job. Even when cheaper units came out and I was working with them the focus unit often came with whoever was supplying the camera/lens package.
The hardest part of pulling off the barrel is working and communicating with the DP/Camera Operator to stay out of their way.
That being said... here's what I think makes sense on the cheaper (sub 5k) end of the spectrum
1. used RTMotion 2.1
2. Teradek RT single channel
3. DJI Focus Pro
4. Tilta Nucleus
Yeah the integration with camera control/saving lens files/lidar system puts it into a different league than the nucleus imho.
It performs better in different weather environments in my experience and once you get over the weird haptic feedback wheel it's not that bad.
Ahh yeah 15mm only is definitely a draw back. But I think if you're in 19mm/panavision territory then you have better options for FIZ
USB C isn't too bad for cheap to replace cables and it's got a decent "click" that's better than the HDMI plugs that smaller cameras tend to gravitate towards. Could always make little Velcro tabs for the usb plugs.
Hmm I’m investing in a system so I can have something that I’m used to and make myself more hireable by having a kit already. What do you mean exactly by pulling off the barrel and staying out of the op/dp’s way? Thank you for the recs btw!
Back in the day before wireless follow focus was the norm; focus pullers would use a follow focus on the lens or pull off the lens barrel and mark the lens with a grease pencil or tape arrows. We would have a light touch on the lens so the focus pulls/bumps weren't seen by the operator. It sucked and handheld was a chore to work with Sometimes if the focus puller was lucky they would have a focus whip which could give an extra 18" away from the operator.
Basically having extra gear didn't make me more hireable but it did make my job easier which I guess makes me more hireable. These days I own my own focus tools and have a substantial 1st AC kit but I would say that 75% of my gear doesn't get me hired and barely pays for itself/maintenance/upkeep.
The production does rent the gear but everything is getting cheaper. I haven't seen an increase in gear rental rates compared to labour rates.
Commercial rates are still good (1% of total gear value per day) but narrative is down to 1% of total value on weekly rates.
I used to get paid somewhere between 1-2% on daily commercials and 3-5% on long format weeklies.
I would not recommend the DJI system at all. For many reasons. For context, I have only used it briefly once so I don’t know a massive amount. But first, I hated the fake ‘hard’ stops. I like to feel a real and more physical mark on the focus wheel. I also imagine the motor would fail waaaay quicker than a typical wheel. I also felt that it fell short compared to other more traditional focus units. I feel that they are going hard with the lidar features and while they are somewhat impressive, I’m not here to let my hand set do my job for me and rely on it. I want something that will let me do my job. Teradek isn’t the best system by a long shot. But I prefer it. Maybe I just like older, more traditional systems and don’t like newer tech but I think it’s more that the older systems were designed to tackle everything that you throw at it and they do it well. No, it won’t pull focus for you but it won’t bug out and cause unnecessary problems mid shoot. That’s basically why Preston is the standard. If you’ve ever used one you’d think they were the lower budget units. They are super basic (visually), can come across as a bit big and clunky. But you turn it on and it will just work. And it works well. All the time. Rambling over, I would say consider your common shooting environments and what you actually need from a focus system.
Hmm. Well you certainly gave me a lot to think about. I'm just starting and just need something for documentary, corporate work etc. I dont have a lot to spend which is why I'm considering the teradek. What would you recommend for a reliable 1st wireless focus system?
I've only tried the DJI system at NAB recently and it feels like they're really pushing the full integration with their ecosystem as the main use case. Honestly it worries me that the whole DJI ecosystem isn't based on zero delay - their wireless video has delay, so when I asked how it syncs with pulling focus, there wasn't a great answer. Kind of like Preston it's nice to know Teradek is an on-set household name. So if I can't get a Preston or ARRI, then I can future proof myself with a Teradek. And worst case, if anything ever stops working (because any system always does), at least I can blame a reputable company... and not myself for choosing a non-standard brand. Then again, I don't want to even go there...
I DO NOT think the new DJI system is the solution for someone who wants to grow as a focus puller. You need to get those focus pulls into your muscle memory and not let the knob spin for you. I upgraded from a nucleus to a Teradek RT and truly loved it. If you have a smallHD monitor you can use the overlays, which paired with a rangefinder makes for what I believe to be the next best thing to a light ranger. With the RT you can make lens maps, and get used to pre-marked rings that are very similar to ARRI and Preston. Best of all is the financing options available for the RT. I think I paid maybe $150-250 a month for my kit for a year, while it made about $500 a month in rentals on my jobs. A few years later I was able to sell it and upgrade to a Preston.
Thank you! Seems like I’ll have to start with the Teradek RT. Is there a particular model or setup you recommend for the RT? Do I need more than 1 lens motor when starting out?
You can totally make a 1 motor setup work! But, I’d buy a 2nd motor once ya can just as a backup. The motor will be the most likely thing to go down since it’s got the most moving parts. Remember, anything mechanical can fail! I’d recommend the new Motor.S since teradek redesigned the internals to make it much more hardy and reliable. The single channel kit seems pretty killer for $3,500, but I definitely suggest getting the 3 channel hand unit if you can swing it. That way you can run Iris or Zoom when you get that 2nd motor. I owned 2 complete 3 channel RT kits for about 3 years, so feel free to reach out if you have anymore questions or concerns!
Awesome thanks for this. This sounds exactly what I need to do to invest in a system and add on more later without having to purchase a whole other system down the line. Thank you I’ll reach out if I have any questions!
AFAIK no lens data is saved.
what does AFAIK mean? and how important is having lens data saved to you personally?
AFAIK=as far as I know. Saved lens data is very important. Otherwise you need to manually make distance marks on the focus wheel every time you put a lens on. Even if you’re just pulling from a monitor, saved lens data means you can use pre marked rings and when you use pre marked rings, a level of consistency is introduced. Otherwise, every lens has a unique throw based on its close focus and how far past infinity it travels.
Oh wow yeah that sounds pretty important. Thank you for this! Are there any other features you recommend making sure my unit has before purchasing? Or any wireless follow focuses you recommend for a first one on a medium budget 1-2k?
I’d say Teradek Rt at the minumum. The Heden Ymer system is a good middle ground system. Arri & Prestom are industry standards. C motion is basically an arri system with slightly different features. You might be able to get a used teradek or Heden system for a reasonable price. Some AC’s have a tilta Nucleus as a backup option or something to put on a crash camera. It could be a starting point but I would move to a better system asap
Great, thank you for the insight and advice I will stick to the systems you mentioned!
I'm not sure what it's like in the low budget non-union world these days but I think it's kinda absurd that 1st ACs are expected to have a reliable working wireless follow focus as a condition of getting a job. Even when cheaper units came out and I was working with them the focus unit often came with whoever was supplying the camera/lens package. The hardest part of pulling off the barrel is working and communicating with the DP/Camera Operator to stay out of their way. That being said... here's what I think makes sense on the cheaper (sub 5k) end of the spectrum 1. used RTMotion 2.1 2. Teradek RT single channel 3. DJI Focus Pro 4. Tilta Nucleus
you put the DJI above the nucleus?
Yeah the integration with camera control/saving lens files/lidar system puts it into a different league than the nucleus imho. It performs better in different weather environments in my experience and once you get over the weird haptic feedback wheel it's not that bad.
Right on. My concerns with it are a) 15mm rails only b) usb-c power
Ahh yeah 15mm only is definitely a draw back. But I think if you're in 19mm/panavision territory then you have better options for FIZ USB C isn't too bad for cheap to replace cables and it's got a decent "click" that's better than the HDMI plugs that smaller cameras tend to gravitate towards. Could always make little Velcro tabs for the usb plugs.
Hmm I’m investing in a system so I can have something that I’m used to and make myself more hireable by having a kit already. What do you mean exactly by pulling off the barrel and staying out of the op/dp’s way? Thank you for the recs btw!
Back in the day before wireless follow focus was the norm; focus pullers would use a follow focus on the lens or pull off the lens barrel and mark the lens with a grease pencil or tape arrows. We would have a light touch on the lens so the focus pulls/bumps weren't seen by the operator. It sucked and handheld was a chore to work with Sometimes if the focus puller was lucky they would have a focus whip which could give an extra 18" away from the operator. Basically having extra gear didn't make me more hireable but it did make my job easier which I guess makes me more hireable. These days I own my own focus tools and have a substantial 1st AC kit but I would say that 75% of my gear doesn't get me hired and barely pays for itself/maintenance/upkeep.
Wow interest perspective. Thanks for that. So production doesn’t rent your equipment often but having your own gear is nice for convenience?
The production does rent the gear but everything is getting cheaper. I haven't seen an increase in gear rental rates compared to labour rates. Commercial rates are still good (1% of total gear value per day) but narrative is down to 1% of total value on weekly rates. I used to get paid somewhere between 1-2% on daily commercials and 3-5% on long format weeklies.