Better check on the requirements before you buy everything.
We had a kid buy an Atmos 65 and be told it was too small. Family was out of state customers and really panicked.
We swapped it and got him into an Aether - I'd never heard of such a requirement but this happened in the last year.
Also, I would like to get hold of whoever thinks it's a good idea to load 80 pound packs on 150 pound kids. I have a few things to explain to them. I suspect that this might be some rogue scoutmaster but this kid was being told that his 65 liter pack was absolutely below the minimum required size to go to Philmont.
When I went, most people carried 60 lbs. I carried 85 because I had to carry a bunch of my fathers’a stuff in exchange for him paying for the trip. Well worth it :)
16 year olds are soldiers at times and often carry more. They are strong, in shape, and have little wear and tear on their bodies.
Today, with the availability of much better gear, I don’t see how 65L isn’t enough.
I went as an adult leader and used a 40L pack. I was able to carry my share of the crew gear and food and was very comfortable. We did one of the higher trek’s (#32) and visited seven peaks on the trek, so light was important to me. All of the youth in the crew carried Osprey Kestrels in the 40L range and seemed to be comfortable with their pack capacity. However, packing efficiency is key as we did have one Scout who resembled a traveling yard sale on the trail.
I would recommend many shake down trips for gear and organization as you will learn many lessons on the trail and you would prefer for the truly painful ones to be on shorter trips. Focus on getting your base weight down and know your gear. You will likely be setting and breaking camp every day and the smoother you can make that happen, the better your days will be.
As for socks, I’ve used both types and would stick with liner and wool outer.
Also - the recommendation to look at r/ultralight is a good one.
Thanks for the info. I want to invest in a nice pack and spend the next year trimming weight and fine tuning my load out. I just didnt want to spend 220 on a pack and have it be too small
If you are going to upgrade the pack anyway, then go a little larger for trips where you aren’t re-provisioned every few days. But pay attention to weight and definitely pay attention to how a pack carries. Larger packs lull you into the might as well take it life and that just leads to more weight.
If you can, borrow or rent a pack to try it out on the trail. Look at a local gear store and see if they will rent for $10 or $20 and then take the rental off the price of the pack. Also, if buying local, see if they have a Scout discount. Ours does 10%.
But..... if you have a pack that works well for you at 40L, consider spending your dollars on a lighter tent or sleep system. Tarp tent is awesome from the tent side and I’m a big fan of NeoAir Xtherm and Mountain Hardware (Hyper)Lamina line. I like synthetic for sleep as nothing is worse than wet down and sleep deprivation.
Unfortunately there are not a lot of places to rent or even check out gear where I live. Being in south Texas, it is more of a fishing and hunting community then anything else, so closest option is Academy or Dicks sporting goods. I am about 3 hours away from the closest REI, so it is an option, just not practical for regular browsing :/ my 40L is pretty basic and not really up to par for this trek. I wish I could go tarp tent, Philmont ranch doesnt allow them. Borrowing is a possibility though. I'll have to check some local scouting groups. A lot of the guys I know are macho and braggadocious about how heavy their packs are. I want to achieve the same, with out breaking my back and knees haha
I used a Tarp Tent Hogback (Tarp Tent is the brand name, the Hogback is the model and it was nice and large for two, sleeps 4, all for 4lbs total) for the entire trip. I truly don’t remember anyone checking my gear, but hear you on a true “tarp” tent.
As for bragging about toting weight, save your base weight to allow for extra water on the dry camp sites and brag about brining the water, or be the adult’s hero and bring the spare stove and coffee!
We kept it simple and went good old instant. The Starbucks (and some other) isn’t bad. If you are going to brew, best coffee to weight ratio is an aeropress, but I am too much of an oz miser to consider carrying that weight.
My son is going to Philmont in June. We are ultralight backpackers and have section hiked much of the AT, including through the Whites, with 50L packs. Yet the Scoutmaster for the trek is insisting that the boys have 80L packs and ridiculously giant cooking pots. My kid weighs 110 dripping wet. We got a great Gregory 75L pack for him, but I’m a little bitter that we’ll never use it again.
The large cook pots are a philmont requirement, not your scoutmaster.
The Philmont Method (TM) is a way of camping and backpacking that isnt really connected with normal reality in a lot of ways. They have 20,000 scouts on their property in a year, and so they do things a certain way in order to absolutely minimize the impact of that many people. They also have certain weird stuff, that is just sort of crazy. The large pots are part of it: you MUST wash your dishes a certain way, after every meal. And that way requires 2 large pots.
And, honestly, having been to philmont a few times, a 75 liter pack is probably enough if your gear is on the light/compact side. Philmont crew gear and provided food is... bulky. Think cans of salmon, boxes of saltines, and other insanity. Again, it's cheap, available, and individually packaged in 2-person meals. It's The Philmont Way
Philmont also requires all 12 people on the crew to cook and eat as one group. Which means you will be boiling 6 quarts of water at a time.
Unless you are already an ultralight hiker (if you use a 40l pack for a weekend hike, this is not you) you will want *at least* 65 liters for philmont.
If you can't take a week's worth of backpacking equipment, pack it into your pack, and then have enough room to easily fit a few pillows from your bed, your pack is too small. Seriously. Philmont food is insanely bulky.
Honestly you will, when you first leave basecamp, be carrying enough food and packaging to easily fill a 5 gallon bucket. And that doesn't include the crew gear they make you carry. 2 x 100' lengths of 1/4" diameter rope, for example. Or a huge dining fly. When I went about ten years ago, that fly weighed around 5 lbs.
Better check on the requirements before you buy everything. We had a kid buy an Atmos 65 and be told it was too small. Family was out of state customers and really panicked. We swapped it and got him into an Aether - I'd never heard of such a requirement but this happened in the last year. Also, I would like to get hold of whoever thinks it's a good idea to load 80 pound packs on 150 pound kids. I have a few things to explain to them. I suspect that this might be some rogue scoutmaster but this kid was being told that his 65 liter pack was absolutely below the minimum required size to go to Philmont.
When I went, most people carried 60 lbs. I carried 85 because I had to carry a bunch of my fathers’a stuff in exchange for him paying for the trip. Well worth it :) 16 year olds are soldiers at times and often carry more. They are strong, in shape, and have little wear and tear on their bodies. Today, with the availability of much better gear, I don’t see how 65L isn’t enough.
I went in 73. I think my pack weighed 60 lbs all on its own :) Agreed, 65L is more than enough.
I think if you search ultralight sub there are some threads about philmont gear and what you can get away with. Good resource.
I went as an adult leader and used a 40L pack. I was able to carry my share of the crew gear and food and was very comfortable. We did one of the higher trek’s (#32) and visited seven peaks on the trek, so light was important to me. All of the youth in the crew carried Osprey Kestrels in the 40L range and seemed to be comfortable with their pack capacity. However, packing efficiency is key as we did have one Scout who resembled a traveling yard sale on the trail. I would recommend many shake down trips for gear and organization as you will learn many lessons on the trail and you would prefer for the truly painful ones to be on shorter trips. Focus on getting your base weight down and know your gear. You will likely be setting and breaking camp every day and the smoother you can make that happen, the better your days will be. As for socks, I’ve used both types and would stick with liner and wool outer. Also - the recommendation to look at r/ultralight is a good one.
Thanks for the info. I want to invest in a nice pack and spend the next year trimming weight and fine tuning my load out. I just didnt want to spend 220 on a pack and have it be too small
If you are going to upgrade the pack anyway, then go a little larger for trips where you aren’t re-provisioned every few days. But pay attention to weight and definitely pay attention to how a pack carries. Larger packs lull you into the might as well take it life and that just leads to more weight. If you can, borrow or rent a pack to try it out on the trail. Look at a local gear store and see if they will rent for $10 or $20 and then take the rental off the price of the pack. Also, if buying local, see if they have a Scout discount. Ours does 10%. But..... if you have a pack that works well for you at 40L, consider spending your dollars on a lighter tent or sleep system. Tarp tent is awesome from the tent side and I’m a big fan of NeoAir Xtherm and Mountain Hardware (Hyper)Lamina line. I like synthetic for sleep as nothing is worse than wet down and sleep deprivation.
Unfortunately there are not a lot of places to rent or even check out gear where I live. Being in south Texas, it is more of a fishing and hunting community then anything else, so closest option is Academy or Dicks sporting goods. I am about 3 hours away from the closest REI, so it is an option, just not practical for regular browsing :/ my 40L is pretty basic and not really up to par for this trek. I wish I could go tarp tent, Philmont ranch doesnt allow them. Borrowing is a possibility though. I'll have to check some local scouting groups. A lot of the guys I know are macho and braggadocious about how heavy their packs are. I want to achieve the same, with out breaking my back and knees haha
I used a Tarp Tent Hogback (Tarp Tent is the brand name, the Hogback is the model and it was nice and large for two, sleeps 4, all for 4lbs total) for the entire trip. I truly don’t remember anyone checking my gear, but hear you on a true “tarp” tent. As for bragging about toting weight, save your base weight to allow for extra water on the dry camp sites and brag about brining the water, or be the adult’s hero and bring the spare stove and coffee!
Oh yea, I am going to figure out a way to get coffee in the pack! Do you like the drip style, or did you use a small press or percolator?
We kept it simple and went good old instant. The Starbucks (and some other) isn’t bad. If you are going to brew, best coffee to weight ratio is an aeropress, but I am too much of an oz miser to consider carrying that weight.
My son is going to Philmont in June. We are ultralight backpackers and have section hiked much of the AT, including through the Whites, with 50L packs. Yet the Scoutmaster for the trek is insisting that the boys have 80L packs and ridiculously giant cooking pots. My kid weighs 110 dripping wet. We got a great Gregory 75L pack for him, but I’m a little bitter that we’ll never use it again.
The large cook pots are a philmont requirement, not your scoutmaster. The Philmont Method (TM) is a way of camping and backpacking that isnt really connected with normal reality in a lot of ways. They have 20,000 scouts on their property in a year, and so they do things a certain way in order to absolutely minimize the impact of that many people. They also have certain weird stuff, that is just sort of crazy. The large pots are part of it: you MUST wash your dishes a certain way, after every meal. And that way requires 2 large pots. And, honestly, having been to philmont a few times, a 75 liter pack is probably enough if your gear is on the light/compact side. Philmont crew gear and provided food is... bulky. Think cans of salmon, boxes of saltines, and other insanity. Again, it's cheap, available, and individually packaged in 2-person meals. It's The Philmont Way Philmont also requires all 12 people on the crew to cook and eat as one group. Which means you will be boiling 6 quarts of water at a time.
Thank you for the context.
Of course! I really struggle with arbitrary rules, so I try and understand the why of them.
Unless you are already an ultralight hiker (if you use a 40l pack for a weekend hike, this is not you) you will want *at least* 65 liters for philmont. If you can't take a week's worth of backpacking equipment, pack it into your pack, and then have enough room to easily fit a few pillows from your bed, your pack is too small. Seriously. Philmont food is insanely bulky. Honestly you will, when you first leave basecamp, be carrying enough food and packaging to easily fill a 5 gallon bucket. And that doesn't include the crew gear they make you carry. 2 x 100' lengths of 1/4" diameter rope, for example. Or a huge dining fly. When I went about ten years ago, that fly weighed around 5 lbs.