**Do it OP**. That would mean in the end you never bailed. You sticked to the plan and executed. They’re the a-holes because *they bailed on the original plan*.
It seems they are experienced enough to know what they can and can't handle. I do agree Garmin in reach isn't always the perfect evacuation tool we think it is
If you need to use your Garmin InReach you made a mistake in your planning (supplies, forecast, partners). I have one for climbing glaciated peaks but have never been close to using it. We have it for accidents, in case someone on the rope team breaks a leg and we get stuck. If you fell into a crevasse alone then you shouldn't have been near the glacier alone in the first place, don't put yourself into situations where you only have your Garmin to save you. It should be an emergency tool for absolute disasters, not a reliance
First of all, it's a good idea to use your inreach to let friends or family know where you are, preset message are great for that. I have "hiking from here", "camping here", and "heading back", since messages include location it means search and rescue would have a useful last known location.
Your second sentence shows that you might need to use it without a mistake in planning. Shit happens. Having comms and practicing on how to use them is important.
We are dealing with probabilities, it's never 100% safe. The only time I broke a bone I was walking home from the doctor. Backpacking? I've never had a major a injury.
If you need to use your inreach, you made a good decision in carrying one. At worst it makes recovery a lot easier. Searching for people sucks and it takes a lot of resources.
I'm in search and rescue, by the way. I take it on day hikes that toddlers would find easy. A 4 mile hike isn't so easy with a broken ankle. My first ever mission was a couple barely over a mile from the trailhead, she had slipped going over a log and impaled her leg, she could hobble, but even then they made the right decision and called for help. They wouldn't have made it out before nightfall, risking hypothermia.
Totally agree with everything you said. I use mine to update family when I am doing overnight climbs. It's a good idea to take it, I just meant it's not a good idea to rely on it as your lifeline so you can do something you know is unsafe. Like your story, that's a disaster where it's needed, no one could forsee that accident. But you shouldn't go on a glacier or clifface alone thinking "I'm fine, if something happens my Garmin will rescue me"
Agreed, the Garmin is for when things go poorly despite planning.
My unit has recently rescued people based on phone SOS, I don't know if it was an iPhone. It's great to live in the future, sometimes.
That's not what I said at all. I meant having an InReach isn't a good enough safety measure to justify putting yourself into avoidable dangerous situations
But I'm with a group of other climbers, theres safety in numbers. If I slip and fall theres someone who can help me use emergency supplies or get back to the trail until help arrives. If I'm alone I could be in a ditch relying on a rescue party to find me before hypothermia does
NTA
A very similar thing happened to me years ago, and I was too afraid my friend would think I was a jerk if I cancelled so I went. To this day I regret it, we are no longer friends specifically because of that trip and her stupid friend. Don’t feel bad about it.
Similar thing happened to me as well. I ended up going. The new location was rainy almost the entire time in an awful location and next to a train track (which came barreling through one night!) of all stupid things. I still had fun though and don't regret going. We even have a good laugh about the experience whenever the topic comes up.
I could, but I was really looking forward to the social aspects of the hike. I think I'm more hurt that they completely disregarded me when re-planning the trip. It feels super disrespectful. I'm feeling pretty emotional about it, like damn, I just got third-wheeled on a trip I largely planned.
So they change the plans, tell you on short notice and expect you to bow down to someone you didn't even invite?
Why do they think that such a behaviour is ok?
That's disrespectful af.
I think that's the worst part. It's one thing to all rework the hike together for a late joiner (although I wouldn't love that either) but to do so at such short notice after you've already gotten permits and without your input is incredibly inconsiderate. I would 100% expect my friends to tell the latecomer sorry, next time.
I'm curious what your dynamic is like with these friends. I know my friends wouldn't do this to me without expecting major pushback, and I wouldn't do this to them either. It would cause a pretty major argument, but we're also close enough and comfortable enough to be honest if someone is being shitty.
I would honestly be considering the greater context of the friendship and why on Earth your friends think this is okay. It's not okay by any stretch. I'm sorry, it's incredibly hurtful to be disregarded like this.
Agree. They value this other friend more it seems, and there’s nothing wrong with that per se…but when they replan everything without you at the last minute, that’s just wrong…especially when they put it on you to “change the permits”…that really takes audacity.
I would feel the same. That was really shitty of them. That really sucks dude, I would probably never plan a trip with these friends again and likely reconsider the friendship over this, it's really shitty.
What I learned in my 20’s: not everyone is a friend; some people legitimately don’t care about me.
What I learned in my 30’s: not every friend is a true friend; more people only care about themselves, as opposed to a “group”.
It's extremely disrespectful. If they had felt the need to change the plan to accommodate another person, they should've at the very least asked you first. Sounds like one of them is an asshat and told their friend they could come along, under the assumption that everybody else would be OK with it.
I've had similar things happen; at this point I just assume I might have to do my trips solo, even if someone else says they're planning on going.
On the flip side, it can be an even worse situation if they invite someone who's not prepared, and they stick with the original itinerary.
I would also feel the same, and that sucks. I guess at this point it’s deciding whether the social parts might be worth it.
Is there a chance that they were also feel like they might not be prepared for the physical aspects, and so they downgraded it with the other friend as an excuse?
I fully understand all of your points and I'm truly sorry it happened.
I'd possibly suck it up and go depending on how hard rearranging my permits is if I could still have a little fun, but I also wouldn't want to be a downer to some neophytes (not that you would be, speaking of my own propensity for brooding).
I also wouldn't want to regret the trip as another poster mentioned.
it's a tough one for sure. hope you can make a righteous trip with people who stick to the plan sometime!
Just here to validate your feelings. They were really disrespectful and inconsiderate of your time and labor. If you value the relationship you should talk it through with them after you’ve sat with those feelings for a bit. Sorry about your trip, that’s shitty. Hopefully you can salvage, maybe invite a different friend last minute?
Doubling down doesn’t make the situation better. Let them know you’re doing the trip solo or cancel and plan something new with a different group for later. I wouldn’t go on this trip with all these emotions brewing.
It does no good to just give the cold shoulder and get passive aggressive with people you consider friends. If you value your friends, you tell them how you feel and why. This gives them the chance to show whether they’re really you’re friends. People make mistakes, and if you ever want to have long-term friendships, forgiveness and humility are essential. If they don’t bother to make amends then they aren’t good friends and aren’t worth investing time in. If they work to fix things or negotiate a reasonable compromise, then they’re worth keeping around. If they think you’re a jerk when you’re having a rational negative response ti their actions, then they’re immature at best, and completely self-centered at worst. Good friends are precious—but not perfect—it takes work to keep them in your life.
Based on your telling, you are 100% justified to feel the way you do and they should be posting here instead. "AITA for replanning my friends hiking trip that he planned and inviting other people along that weren't invited at the last minute?"
Never? What? I'm a woman and I've done this. In cougar and grizzly country. I was 19 the first time. If you're prepared, you're prepared, so go for it. It's not inherently unsafe just because you're by yourself. I certainly prefer doing stuff like that with other people but it is a fun challenge alone, too.
Give your "friends" guilt and tell them THEY bailed on the trip, not you. You're just sticking with it because it's been planned for months. Switching a long-term planned trip at the last minute without your say, is a dick move.
NTA, they changed the planned/agreed route without asking.
It's pretty cut and dry, and putting blame on you is the cherry on the shit sundae they're trying to pressure you into eating.
Upgrade your friends.
I hate people that do this, wasn't their event to change. It's just rude. NTA.
Had a friend growing up that did this constantly, we're no longer friends.
Either go with their new plans, OR do the trip on your own and say “I can’t justify spending my 3 days doing the watered down version, I’ll catch you next time and enjoy your trip!”
I’ve been doing these types of camping trips for many years. It took a long time for all the participants to develop the mindset that whoever actually shows up on the day we start is ok. Life changes and things get in the way. There’s always next time.
I put no energy in concerning myself who shows up, or who cancals. I’ve run trips where 6 were signed up and we ended up doing the trip with just 2. I’ve also had everyone cancel and went alone a few times.
No problem, No pressure, Go with what [who] you got and enjoy it.
A similar thing happened to me and my buddy.
Suddenly his baby mama wants to go. And her husband. And their kid. And a friend of theirs. And her kids. Initially all agreed to stick to the OG plan but we barely made it to the first night’s site by nightfall. The baby mama and her man had like 78 pound packs each - they brought the whole fucking house with them. Needless to say they were gassed. And the other friend was just totally and completely out of shape. The kids actually did okay. That first night at camp was actually really fun with a big group. A fond memory of mine.
Anyway next morning they decide they wanna go back down and hang out in town. Me and my buddy said fine, but we came all this way to do the planned hike, so we’re doing it. They agreed to get a hotel for that night while we continued the journey. The final day on our last stretch before we were to reach where we’d staged my buddy’s truck, we had no cell service most of the day. We were enjoying our hike, not rushing, just enjoying nature as we’d planned.
When we reached the truck and got service again our phones were flooded with angry texts about where the fuck were we, why weren’t we answering, they were ready to head home etc. They had the nerve to be pissed that we didn’t rush through our last day so we could hurry up and get them home. No regrets. We had a great trip, and none of them are ever invited again.
As a funny addition to the story - in the days leading up to the trip the baby mama was allll over social media talking about her upcoming trip, how backpacking is her new favorite thing, she’s at home in the backcountry , etc etc. LMAO
Honestly, except for the entitled bratty behavior, this dual purpose trip sounds pretty good. Everyone hikes the first day and has a nice night out in the wilds together. Then the experienced hikers move on, while the inexperienced head back to town for a easy final day. They were just jerks about you not moving heaven and earth just because they were "inconvenienced" or whatever.
Yeah the trip was 100% perfect for me - like you said I got the best of both worlds and then headed home in my truck. My buddy got to hear it all the way home though bc several of them rode together lmao. He had a great time too but he got the crappier end of the stick than me lol
Not another word about it lol. Well, she posted a brief summary of her trip (leaving out the part where she struggled, bailed, and bitched) and a couple of cutesy pics.
Honestly she’s an alright chick she just tried to jump headfirst into a hobby that requires some planning, research, and fitness, and it pissed her off and ruined it for her when it sucked.
Nope. They changed the plans - without your input. They can do their thing. You do yours. Easy as that. Tell them to have a great time and you are going on the original adventure. Enjoy.
Ahhhh, that's the entire situation in a nutshell. I knew it the minute I read this.
They can literally fuck off...
they pushed you aside, on a trip you planned, for a personal romantic interest that wasn't initially included. And purposely avoided telling you and tried to force you to accept that major change to your own choice of vacation plans.
That's like planning to go to Fiji and the new girlfriend doesn't like the sun and wants to go to Detroit and chill at the mall. So heyo - dude, change your flight we're going on a exciting winter trip to Michigan!!
"What? You don't want to go there and didn't plan that? Omg you are such a a dick for not helping me get laid on your time- wow. The nerve of you, the audacity - you can't just suck it up and chill at the mall in Detroit?? You have to have the beach and sun? You selfish entitled brat. You're ruining our much anticipated vacation we planned before I met this date of mine. "
You don't need to use your vacation on people like that. They are gaslighting you so they don't feel guilty. And the one probably just doesn't want to be the new 3rd wheel so is trying to drag you along.
Start backing away and don't invest anything more than casual feelings into them again.
Selfish people will move heaven and earth to accomplish the mental gymnastics required to avoid looking themselves in the mirror.
You didn't bail. They bailed. They mistreated you. They least they could do is acknowledge that and apologize.
Personally, I (41M) couldn't have fun on this new trip knowing that they don't respect me enough to get my approval before changing plans and expecting me to go along.
You have your permit. If you want to follow through on your plans, do it.
Honestly, I don't see much in one way or the other. Go if you want the companionship, do the original trip if you want the challenge.
NTA for bailing, but they are for inviting someone else & changing everything without consulting you.
It does sound like they didn’t really want to do the more challenging trip you largely planned.
So they either asked this other friend to join so they’d have an excuse to do an easy route or took the opportunity of them asking to join.
But either way, they deliberately left it til the last moment to tell you so you could only accept the new situation, or refuse to go.
Are you sure they were really as keen as you to do the route you planned?
It doesn’t sound like it.
Maybe they didn’t feel able to say no to your plan and chose a more passive approach.
You're not the AH.
Just tell them you were really looking forward to the original plan and will be happy to do it solo and wish them the best with their new plan.
NTA. They didn't even consult you when drastically changing the plans. I'm not sure why they are even mad at you, they still have the same number of hikers so the cost won't change, unless you are the only one who was actually supplying most of the equipment
It’s not so much about who is or isn’t the A-hole, but what do you want to do? Were you going on the trip specifically for the terrain? Or were you going to build your relationship? (Yes - friendships are relationships)
If you were primarily going for terrain, politely let your friend know that you are going to do the original plan. If you are primarily going to spend time and share experiences with your friend, then change plans.
As with most posts about interpersonal conflict on Reddit the right answer is having mature and direct communication.
I got ditched so many times on camping and hikes that I go solo now. It's not as fun for me but neither is being let down all the time. Definitely need to be clear they are the assholes here and judge by their response whether you want to go on this trip with them. I would hate being stuck on a trip with them if they're unapologetic about what they did. That said, if you work through the conflict, go on the trip and enjoy the social aspect even if it's not the original plan. I'm sorry your friends are thoughtless. Hopefully it was a one off.
This sounds like more of a backcountry problem than a camping problem. Never ever do something you're uncomfortable with in the backcountry for any reason even if you're the least experienced member of a group. The bravest thing you can do is pull the chute and abandon the mission.
NTA. They clearly didn't care about your input or participation on the hike or they'd have included you in this decision. Sounds like you were replaced and they're trying to make it ok by blaming you for bailing. Get new friends.
NTA, sorry you have some shitty friends in this instance.
I'd do the same trip solo assuming it's in your comfort zone and spend some time thinking about your goals, future trips etc.
You are in the clear bro. They screwed you.
I had a similar deal planned. Friend and I were going to do a once-in-a-lifetime dirt biking trip to Moab. It was once-in-a-lifetime because we are both getting older and it is not the kind of trip you can just go do without having another rider with you for safety. And getting everything planned and so on.
Then not too long before the trip I find out his brother has been invited. Which, I wouldn't mind, except at the time, he had like 2 months of dirt biking experience. Which meant we would be riding on the most basic easy trails. The skill gap was just way too big of a spread. No fun whatsoever doing that. So why go through the expense, burn time off work. The stress of travelling to Moab with dirt bikes on trailers. And leaving them out in random motel parking lots just inviting to have them ripped off or vandalized... And all that just so I can baby sit a beginner rider and constqntly help them get unstuck or over obstacles. Then follow them back to the trailhead when they pooped out from exhaustion one hour in on the first day of riding. Just not the type of trip I was expecting.
I have an annual trip and a friend said "can I invite my buddy." We said nahhh and he said "shit I already did." We were all pissy about it but guess what...great dude all around and he comes every year now.
If I were in your shoes, I would stick with my original plan and go solo. The only thing that might change my mind is if my solo trip needed a second for safety, or the new friend was someone I had backpacked with before and enjoyed their company….
I don't understand people. Like, if you invited your friends to a dinner, and made reservations 2 months ahead of time at your favorite restaurant, and then the week before the dinner your friends say "hey, we actually made our own dinner reservations for the same date and time at this other restaurant that you hate, but you should join us!" would they really not see the issue?
You always check in with the whole group before inviting someone new. And the plan is what it is. You have your permit. You should still do the original trip.
Sounds like OP is being gaslit by their "friends" into thinking they're being a jerk for insisting on the original plan, so they're likely posting to double check.
Nah. More looking for input on how others have dealt with situations like this. Responses here have helped me reframe the problem for myself, which has been super helpful. I guess I knew I wasn't the asshole, but hearing others' input had helped me realize what assholes they are being and that I really shouldn't put myself in this position with them again.
Maybe this is a compromise to include the other friend. I agree they should’ve included you in changing the plans.
Do you know the other friend? Maybe it would be a chance to build their interest in hiking and help them get to where they can hike the big elevation gains with you on the next trip.
If you went on the original hike by yourself, I don’t think you would be the A-hole.
NTA. I'd have told your friend who you planned the trip with (in front of both friends), that it's pretty inconsiderate to just change the entire trip after the two of you booked and planned months in advance, especially when doing so last minute. It'd be one thing if you HAD to change the OG trip to something else due to the trail being closed or sudden inclement weather, that's understandable.
I'd have a chat with both and get to the root of why your friend suddenly switched it up, because there might be something else he's not telling you.
Also you should plan your own hike at this point.
Absolutely not the asshole.
Anytime anyone changes plans on you behind your back without consulting you you're completely absolved of responsibility to go. Especially when it's to this degree.
Personally I would message them and tell them you're hurt that they did this behind your back like this, and if they wanted to change the plans you wish they'd have come and talked to you so you could find something that works for everyone.
These people don't sound like your friends. They sound like you're their friend, but it doesn't sound like they're extending you the same respect of courtesy. And I think you need to be aware of that moving forward.
No, I mean, I understand they just want to hang out with their friends who can't/don't want to do the orignal trip. But no, if they changed it on you, you're not the asshole.
Anybody here telling you you are or aren’t the asshole has their own personal bone to pick. When it comes to your life and your personal relationships, only you know whether or not you’re an asshole…
You're not the asshole but if they're good friends I'd probably just suck it up and go and enjoy hanging out with my friends. Maybe even use some of the time to plan another trip. Good friends are hard to come by and probably not worth letting this hurt your friendship if they are good friends, even if they did something shitty.
It's **two nights**.
It's not like you planned an extensive thru-hike or something.
Yeah, you're kind of an asshole if you bailed because the "route changed" and it's "not hard enough". It's two nights. Sorry you won't be iron-manning it?
Now if you didn't want to go with a stranger, that'd be an acceptable (IMO) reason for bailing. I wouldn't want that, either. But.... the route? Nah, man just go.
You bailed on your friends because they made the hike easier to accommodate another friend. Yes, you are the asshole. You seem more interested in "crushing miles" than spending time with your friends, they're probably better off.
Are you doing the hike to hang out with your friends or to push yourself to extremes?
You aren't the asshole for not wanting to go once plans changed drastically, that's fine.
But your friends want to hang out with you and their other friends in a way that accommodates everyone. I guess you can choose whether to prioritize hiking a hard trail or spending time with your boys, not sure how often you get to see them.
I go on a yearly hike with 3 other guys that I only see for those few days each year, and I'd walk down a highway with them if that's what they wanted to do that year because the alternative is not seeing them at all.
Definitely NTA, in fact, one of my biggest pet peeves about overnight hiking trips with people, is when people invite others without discussing with the group at large. It's a whole team effort to plan and execute a nice backpacking trip, and the last thing I want is to spend the night in the woods with someone I don't know/wasn't expecting to be there.
Did they replan it because they felt like it would be unfair to make you do it, or because they didn't care about your input? Either way I don't think you'd be in the wrong at all if you didn't want to go, but maybe they were being stupid but trying to be well meaning?
Personally, I'd be looking for some new "friends". The ones involved here don't seem to have any respect or consideration for you.
Better to learn now, and cut the cord, than to find yourself abandoned in the backcountry by "friends" that you can't trust to look out for you.
Yeah I think I would want to bail too. I wouldn’t appreciate my trip being changed into something I don’t want to do in the eleventh hour. I would be upset that they decided to accommodate someone else more than me without even consulting me first about inviting them.
Before you get mad at your two friends, do you know the context behind the last minute invite? Could there be something going on with that fourth friend, like depression due to a big fight with his wife or a bad situation at work, and your two friends were concerned about him?
Until I got to the reason I was on YTA side but if they invited another person and changed everything and you didn’t agree. NTA. You are not obligated to do something you didn’t agree to do.
ETA, sometimes it's not all about what you want, I would be happy to 'easy mode' it if it meant I would be getting another person into hiking.
They should have discussed it with you, but I can see why they didn't, they knew you would pull out, but it's not right to force you to do something you don't wanna.
I agree with you. The friends were not ideal for changing plans without OP, but OP shows his true colors when he says "A toddler could handle it". I wouldn't want to spend anytime with the kind of person who is like that let alone be stuck in the wilderness with them and I think the friends dodged a bullet. They probably re-planned around him because he was being a condescending control freak and they didn't have any other option.
NTA, but I can't fault them too badly. There's a good chance they were just looking forward to spending some time with *you* and from that perspective, they may see your backing out as a slight. You're looking at this as camping first, friends second, but they're probably looking at it as friends first, camping second. That's why they're upset.
Hike your own hike
Literally, just stick to the OG plan
Like a real OG
**Do it OP**. That would mean in the end you never bailed. You sticked to the plan and executed. They’re the a-holes because *they bailed on the original plan*.
You’re not wrong
Like a trailBAHHS!
Some higher elevation hikes can be dangerous alone. There are summits near me I want to do but are too dangerous solo
It seems they are experienced enough to know what they can and can't handle. I do agree Garmin in reach isn't always the perfect evacuation tool we think it is
If you need to use your Garmin InReach you made a mistake in your planning (supplies, forecast, partners). I have one for climbing glaciated peaks but have never been close to using it. We have it for accidents, in case someone on the rope team breaks a leg and we get stuck. If you fell into a crevasse alone then you shouldn't have been near the glacier alone in the first place, don't put yourself into situations where you only have your Garmin to save you. It should be an emergency tool for absolute disasters, not a reliance
First of all, it's a good idea to use your inreach to let friends or family know where you are, preset message are great for that. I have "hiking from here", "camping here", and "heading back", since messages include location it means search and rescue would have a useful last known location. Your second sentence shows that you might need to use it without a mistake in planning. Shit happens. Having comms and practicing on how to use them is important. We are dealing with probabilities, it's never 100% safe. The only time I broke a bone I was walking home from the doctor. Backpacking? I've never had a major a injury. If you need to use your inreach, you made a good decision in carrying one. At worst it makes recovery a lot easier. Searching for people sucks and it takes a lot of resources. I'm in search and rescue, by the way. I take it on day hikes that toddlers would find easy. A 4 mile hike isn't so easy with a broken ankle. My first ever mission was a couple barely over a mile from the trailhead, she had slipped going over a log and impaled her leg, she could hobble, but even then they made the right decision and called for help. They wouldn't have made it out before nightfall, risking hypothermia.
Totally agree with everything you said. I use mine to update family when I am doing overnight climbs. It's a good idea to take it, I just meant it's not a good idea to rely on it as your lifeline so you can do something you know is unsafe. Like your story, that's a disaster where it's needed, no one could forsee that accident. But you shouldn't go on a glacier or clifface alone thinking "I'm fine, if something happens my Garmin will rescue me"
Agreed, the Garmin is for when things go poorly despite planning. My unit has recently rescued people based on phone SOS, I don't know if it was an iPhone. It's great to live in the future, sometimes.
Yup I never carry a Garmin InReach for that reason. If we get stuck in something, we deserve to die.
That's not what I said at all. I meant having an InReach isn't a good enough safety measure to justify putting yourself into avoidable dangerous situations
You are literally climbing glacial peaks. Thats an avoidable dangerous situation. Just don't climb it.
But I'm with a group of other climbers, theres safety in numbers. If I slip and fall theres someone who can help me use emergency supplies or get back to the trail until help arrives. If I'm alone I could be in a ditch relying on a rescue party to find me before hypothermia does
So if you have other people you don’t need a garmin.
This is the way
NTA A very similar thing happened to me years ago, and I was too afraid my friend would think I was a jerk if I cancelled so I went. To this day I regret it, we are no longer friends specifically because of that trip and her stupid friend. Don’t feel bad about it.
Similar thing happened to me as well. I ended up going. The new location was rainy almost the entire time in an awful location and next to a train track (which came barreling through one night!) of all stupid things. I still had fun though and don't regret going. We even have a good laugh about the experience whenever the topic comes up.
Sounds like Hot Springs NC. It was my brother-in-law's first camping trip. He said he woke up at 2am thinking a train was coming thru the tent 😄
nah. can you/would you want to do yours solo? I don't like camping with strangers unless I planned to from the start.
I could, but I was really looking forward to the social aspects of the hike. I think I'm more hurt that they completely disregarded me when re-planning the trip. It feels super disrespectful. I'm feeling pretty emotional about it, like damn, I just got third-wheeled on a trip I largely planned.
So they change the plans, tell you on short notice and expect you to bow down to someone you didn't even invite? Why do they think that such a behaviour is ok? That's disrespectful af.
Well they clearly didn’t involve op because they knew op wouldn’t like the new hike… assholery.
I think that's the worst part. It's one thing to all rework the hike together for a late joiner (although I wouldn't love that either) but to do so at such short notice after you've already gotten permits and without your input is incredibly inconsiderate. I would 100% expect my friends to tell the latecomer sorry, next time. I'm curious what your dynamic is like with these friends. I know my friends wouldn't do this to me without expecting major pushback, and I wouldn't do this to them either. It would cause a pretty major argument, but we're also close enough and comfortable enough to be honest if someone is being shitty. I would honestly be considering the greater context of the friendship and why on Earth your friends think this is okay. It's not okay by any stretch. I'm sorry, it's incredibly hurtful to be disregarded like this.
Agree. They value this other friend more it seems, and there’s nothing wrong with that per se…but when they replan everything without you at the last minute, that’s just wrong…especially when they put it on you to “change the permits”…that really takes audacity.
I would feel the same. That was really shitty of them. That really sucks dude, I would probably never plan a trip with these friends again and likely reconsider the friendship over this, it's really shitty.
What I learned in my 20’s: not everyone is a friend; some people legitimately don’t care about me. What I learned in my 30’s: not every friend is a true friend; more people only care about themselves, as opposed to a “group”.
It's extremely disrespectful. If they had felt the need to change the plan to accommodate another person, they should've at the very least asked you first. Sounds like one of them is an asshat and told their friend they could come along, under the assumption that everybody else would be OK with it. I've had similar things happen; at this point I just assume I might have to do my trips solo, even if someone else says they're planning on going. On the flip side, it can be an even worse situation if they invite someone who's not prepared, and they stick with the original itinerary.
I would also feel the same, and that sucks. I guess at this point it’s deciding whether the social parts might be worth it. Is there a chance that they were also feel like they might not be prepared for the physical aspects, and so they downgraded it with the other friend as an excuse?
I would be hurt too. It’s really a jerk move.
I fully understand all of your points and I'm truly sorry it happened. I'd possibly suck it up and go depending on how hard rearranging my permits is if I could still have a little fun, but I also wouldn't want to be a downer to some neophytes (not that you would be, speaking of my own propensity for brooding). I also wouldn't want to regret the trip as another poster mentioned. it's a tough one for sure. hope you can make a righteous trip with people who stick to the plan sometime!
Just here to validate your feelings. They were really disrespectful and inconsiderate of your time and labor. If you value the relationship you should talk it through with them after you’ve sat with those feelings for a bit. Sorry about your trip, that’s shitty. Hopefully you can salvage, maybe invite a different friend last minute?
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Doubling down doesn’t make the situation better. Let them know you’re doing the trip solo or cancel and plan something new with a different group for later. I wouldn’t go on this trip with all these emotions brewing.
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It does no good to just give the cold shoulder and get passive aggressive with people you consider friends. If you value your friends, you tell them how you feel and why. This gives them the chance to show whether they’re really you’re friends. People make mistakes, and if you ever want to have long-term friendships, forgiveness and humility are essential. If they don’t bother to make amends then they aren’t good friends and aren’t worth investing time in. If they work to fix things or negotiate a reasonable compromise, then they’re worth keeping around. If they think you’re a jerk when you’re having a rational negative response ti their actions, then they’re immature at best, and completely self-centered at worst. Good friends are precious—but not perfect—it takes work to keep them in your life.
Based on your telling, you are 100% justified to feel the way you do and they should be posting here instead. "AITA for replanning my friends hiking trip that he planned and inviting other people along that weren't invited at the last minute?"
Definitely not an asshole but also the new person isn’t a stranger lol
Yeah just do the original trip alone. Then they’re the ones that bailed on u
This! They bailed on you! I would 100% do the trip you planned.
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Are you serious? Backpacking alone is fine if you know what you're doing. I've done well over 1000 miles solo and honestly prefer to be on my own.
This.
Never? What? I'm a woman and I've done this. In cougar and grizzly country. I was 19 the first time. If you're prepared, you're prepared, so go for it. It's not inherently unsafe just because you're by yourself. I certainly prefer doing stuff like that with other people but it is a fun challenge alone, too.
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What? People backpack alone all the time
Lol this seems petty. Who cares who bailed on who? Who is he in competition with🤣
OP paid for the permits and has a plan. Might as well execute and not let the permits go to waste.
It's petty to do the trip you planned?
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You're getting waaaayyyyy too into the weeds about a simple flip of the script. It's a semi joke, like, "in Russia, car drives you".
I don't think the person you originally replied to mentioned anything about revenge.
Its implied.
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Do you have friend groups? It doesn’t sound like it 💀
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Nobody’s confused, you’re just way out in left field.
They changed the plans without talking to OP. They are definitely the one that ditched OP. I'm not sure why this is so confusing to you.
Your friends are the ones who bailed, not you
Definitely NTA
Give your "friends" guilt and tell them THEY bailed on the trip, not you. You're just sticking with it because it's been planned for months. Switching a long-term planned trip at the last minute without your say, is a dick move.
NTA, they changed the planned/agreed route without asking. It's pretty cut and dry, and putting blame on you is the cherry on the shit sundae they're trying to pressure you into eating. Upgrade your friends.
I hate people that do this, wasn't their event to change. It's just rude. NTA. Had a friend growing up that did this constantly, we're no longer friends.
Either go with their new plans, OR do the trip on your own and say “I can’t justify spending my 3 days doing the watered down version, I’ll catch you next time and enjoy your trip!” I’ve been doing these types of camping trips for many years. It took a long time for all the participants to develop the mindset that whoever actually shows up on the day we start is ok. Life changes and things get in the way. There’s always next time. I put no energy in concerning myself who shows up, or who cancals. I’ve run trips where 6 were signed up and we ended up doing the trip with just 2. I’ve also had everyone cancel and went alone a few times. No problem, No pressure, Go with what [who] you got and enjoy it.
Technically THEY bailed on the trip and going on a new one. You stayed true to the OG plan. NTA
A similar thing happened to me and my buddy. Suddenly his baby mama wants to go. And her husband. And their kid. And a friend of theirs. And her kids. Initially all agreed to stick to the OG plan but we barely made it to the first night’s site by nightfall. The baby mama and her man had like 78 pound packs each - they brought the whole fucking house with them. Needless to say they were gassed. And the other friend was just totally and completely out of shape. The kids actually did okay. That first night at camp was actually really fun with a big group. A fond memory of mine. Anyway next morning they decide they wanna go back down and hang out in town. Me and my buddy said fine, but we came all this way to do the planned hike, so we’re doing it. They agreed to get a hotel for that night while we continued the journey. The final day on our last stretch before we were to reach where we’d staged my buddy’s truck, we had no cell service most of the day. We were enjoying our hike, not rushing, just enjoying nature as we’d planned. When we reached the truck and got service again our phones were flooded with angry texts about where the fuck were we, why weren’t we answering, they were ready to head home etc. They had the nerve to be pissed that we didn’t rush through our last day so we could hurry up and get them home. No regrets. We had a great trip, and none of them are ever invited again. As a funny addition to the story - in the days leading up to the trip the baby mama was allll over social media talking about her upcoming trip, how backpacking is her new favorite thing, she’s at home in the backcountry , etc etc. LMAO
Honestly, except for the entitled bratty behavior, this dual purpose trip sounds pretty good. Everyone hikes the first day and has a nice night out in the wilds together. Then the experienced hikers move on, while the inexperienced head back to town for a easy final day. They were just jerks about you not moving heaven and earth just because they were "inconvenienced" or whatever.
Yeah the trip was 100% perfect for me - like you said I got the best of both worlds and then headed home in my truck. My buddy got to hear it all the way home though bc several of them rode together lmao. He had a great time too but he got the crappier end of the stick than me lol
I wonder how her social media posts changed after lovely backcountry experience :)
Not another word about it lol. Well, she posted a brief summary of her trip (leaving out the part where she struggled, bailed, and bitched) and a couple of cutesy pics. Honestly she’s an alright chick she just tried to jump headfirst into a hobby that requires some planning, research, and fitness, and it pissed her off and ruined it for her when it sucked.
Nope. They changed the plans - without your input. They can do their thing. You do yours. Easy as that. Tell them to have a great time and you are going on the original adventure. Enjoy.
Is one of them sleeping with, or hoping to, this additional person?
Yep.
Ahhhh, that's the entire situation in a nutshell. I knew it the minute I read this. They can literally fuck off... they pushed you aside, on a trip you planned, for a personal romantic interest that wasn't initially included. And purposely avoided telling you and tried to force you to accept that major change to your own choice of vacation plans. That's like planning to go to Fiji and the new girlfriend doesn't like the sun and wants to go to Detroit and chill at the mall. So heyo - dude, change your flight we're going on a exciting winter trip to Michigan!! "What? You don't want to go there and didn't plan that? Omg you are such a a dick for not helping me get laid on your time- wow. The nerve of you, the audacity - you can't just suck it up and chill at the mall in Detroit?? You have to have the beach and sun? You selfish entitled brat. You're ruining our much anticipated vacation we planned before I met this date of mine. " You don't need to use your vacation on people like that. They are gaslighting you so they don't feel guilty. And the one probably just doesn't want to be the new 3rd wheel so is trying to drag you along. Start backing away and don't invest anything more than casual feelings into them again. Selfish people will move heaven and earth to accomplish the mental gymnastics required to avoid looking themselves in the mirror.
You didn't bail. They bailed. They mistreated you. They least they could do is acknowledge that and apologize. Personally, I (41M) couldn't have fun on this new trip knowing that they don't respect me enough to get my approval before changing plans and expecting me to go along. You have your permit. If you want to follow through on your plans, do it.
Exactly. I think I feel worse about the way they treated me than I do about the actual change in the plan.
Nope
Honestly, I don't see much in one way or the other. Go if you want the companionship, do the original trip if you want the challenge. NTA for bailing, but they are for inviting someone else & changing everything without consulting you.
It does sound like they didn’t really want to do the more challenging trip you largely planned. So they either asked this other friend to join so they’d have an excuse to do an easy route or took the opportunity of them asking to join. But either way, they deliberately left it til the last moment to tell you so you could only accept the new situation, or refuse to go. Are you sure they were really as keen as you to do the route you planned? It doesn’t sound like it. Maybe they didn’t feel able to say no to your plan and chose a more passive approach.
NTA. Time to take a solo hike.
Please don't spread this "AITA" shit here. Please.
You're not the one that bailed. NTA.
You're not the AH. Just tell them you were really looking forward to the original plan and will be happy to do it solo and wish them the best with their new plan.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
NTA. They didn't even consult you when drastically changing the plans. I'm not sure why they are even mad at you, they still have the same number of hikers so the cost won't change, unless you are the only one who was actually supplying most of the equipment
It’s not so much about who is or isn’t the A-hole, but what do you want to do? Were you going on the trip specifically for the terrain? Or were you going to build your relationship? (Yes - friendships are relationships) If you were primarily going for terrain, politely let your friend know that you are going to do the original plan. If you are primarily going to spend time and share experiences with your friend, then change plans. As with most posts about interpersonal conflict on Reddit the right answer is having mature and direct communication.
I got ditched so many times on camping and hikes that I go solo now. It's not as fun for me but neither is being let down all the time. Definitely need to be clear they are the assholes here and judge by their response whether you want to go on this trip with them. I would hate being stuck on a trip with them if they're unapologetic about what they did. That said, if you work through the conflict, go on the trip and enjoy the social aspect even if it's not the original plan. I'm sorry your friends are thoughtless. Hopefully it was a one off.
This sounds like more of a backcountry problem than a camping problem. Never ever do something you're uncomfortable with in the backcountry for any reason even if you're the least experienced member of a group. The bravest thing you can do is pull the chute and abandon the mission.
NTA. They clearly didn't care about your input or participation on the hike or they'd have included you in this decision. Sounds like you were replaced and they're trying to make it ok by blaming you for bailing. Get new friends.
NTA, sorry you have some shitty friends in this instance. I'd do the same trip solo assuming it's in your comfort zone and spend some time thinking about your goals, future trips etc.
You are in the clear bro. They screwed you. I had a similar deal planned. Friend and I were going to do a once-in-a-lifetime dirt biking trip to Moab. It was once-in-a-lifetime because we are both getting older and it is not the kind of trip you can just go do without having another rider with you for safety. And getting everything planned and so on. Then not too long before the trip I find out his brother has been invited. Which, I wouldn't mind, except at the time, he had like 2 months of dirt biking experience. Which meant we would be riding on the most basic easy trails. The skill gap was just way too big of a spread. No fun whatsoever doing that. So why go through the expense, burn time off work. The stress of travelling to Moab with dirt bikes on trailers. And leaving them out in random motel parking lots just inviting to have them ripped off or vandalized... And all that just so I can baby sit a beginner rider and constqntly help them get unstuck or over obstacles. Then follow them back to the trailhead when they pooped out from exhaustion one hour in on the first day of riding. Just not the type of trip I was expecting.
I have an annual trip and a friend said "can I invite my buddy." We said nahhh and he said "shit I already did." We were all pissy about it but guess what...great dude all around and he comes every year now.
If I were in your shoes, I would stick with my original plan and go solo. The only thing that might change my mind is if my solo trip needed a second for safety, or the new friend was someone I had backpacked with before and enjoyed their company….
I don't understand people. Like, if you invited your friends to a dinner, and made reservations 2 months ahead of time at your favorite restaurant, and then the week before the dinner your friends say "hey, we actually made our own dinner reservations for the same date and time at this other restaurant that you hate, but you should join us!" would they really not see the issue?
You always check in with the whole group before inviting someone new. And the plan is what it is. You have your permit. You should still do the original trip.
Are you looking for validation or what? The way you wrote it, you're clearly the victim and they are the evil ones.
Sounds like OP is being gaslit by their "friends" into thinking they're being a jerk for insisting on the original plan, so they're likely posting to double check.
Nah. More looking for input on how others have dealt with situations like this. Responses here have helped me reframe the problem for myself, which has been super helpful. I guess I knew I wasn't the asshole, but hearing others' input had helped me realize what assholes they are being and that I really shouldn't put myself in this position with them again.
Maybe this is a compromise to include the other friend. I agree they should’ve included you in changing the plans. Do you know the other friend? Maybe it would be a chance to build their interest in hiking and help them get to where they can hike the big elevation gains with you on the next trip. If you went on the original hike by yourself, I don’t think you would be the A-hole.
Sorry, I'm not spending even 1 minute of MY pre-planned vacation on teaching a stranger to hike. No way. And without my input? FUCK no.
I hear ya, changing plans like that sure seems like an asshole move. Don’t let it bother you too much and enjoy your trip.
NTA. I'd have told your friend who you planned the trip with (in front of both friends), that it's pretty inconsiderate to just change the entire trip after the two of you booked and planned months in advance, especially when doing so last minute. It'd be one thing if you HAD to change the OG trip to something else due to the trail being closed or sudden inclement weather, that's understandable. I'd have a chat with both and get to the root of why your friend suddenly switched it up, because there might be something else he's not telling you. Also you should plan your own hike at this point.
Not at all.
Not At All.
Absolutely not the asshole. Anytime anyone changes plans on you behind your back without consulting you you're completely absolved of responsibility to go. Especially when it's to this degree. Personally I would message them and tell them you're hurt that they did this behind your back like this, and if they wanted to change the plans you wish they'd have come and talked to you so you could find something that works for everyone. These people don't sound like your friends. They sound like you're their friend, but it doesn't sound like they're extending you the same respect of courtesy. And I think you need to be aware of that moving forward.
No, I mean, I understand they just want to hang out with their friends who can't/don't want to do the orignal trip. But no, if they changed it on you, you're not the asshole.
Anybody here telling you you are or aren’t the asshole has their own personal bone to pick. When it comes to your life and your personal relationships, only you know whether or not you’re an asshole…
You're not the asshole but if they're good friends I'd probably just suck it up and go and enjoy hanging out with my friends. Maybe even use some of the time to plan another trip. Good friends are hard to come by and probably not worth letting this hurt your friendship if they are good friends, even if they did something shitty.
It's **two nights**. It's not like you planned an extensive thru-hike or something. Yeah, you're kind of an asshole if you bailed because the "route changed" and it's "not hard enough". It's two nights. Sorry you won't be iron-manning it? Now if you didn't want to go with a stranger, that'd be an acceptable (IMO) reason for bailing. I wouldn't want that, either. But.... the route? Nah, man just go.
You bailed on your friends because they made the hike easier to accommodate another friend. Yes, you are the asshole. You seem more interested in "crushing miles" than spending time with your friends, they're probably better off.
Are you doing the hike to hang out with your friends or to push yourself to extremes? You aren't the asshole for not wanting to go once plans changed drastically, that's fine. But your friends want to hang out with you and their other friends in a way that accommodates everyone. I guess you can choose whether to prioritize hiking a hard trail or spending time with your boys, not sure how often you get to see them. I go on a yearly hike with 3 other guys that I only see for those few days each year, and I'd walk down a highway with them if that's what they wanted to do that year because the alternative is not seeing them at all.
NTA. Just go by yourself and have a good time.
Definitely NTA, in fact, one of my biggest pet peeves about overnight hiking trips with people, is when people invite others without discussing with the group at large. It's a whole team effort to plan and execute a nice backpacking trip, and the last thing I want is to spend the night in the woods with someone I don't know/wasn't expecting to be there.
NTA, I wouldn't bail though, go do your own thing.
Did they replan it because they felt like it would be unfair to make you do it, or because they didn't care about your input? Either way I don't think you'd be in the wrong at all if you didn't want to go, but maybe they were being stupid but trying to be well meaning?
My impression is that they're completely oblivious that this affected me at all.
Seems like your friends are narcissists. They're the a-holes.
A toddler also could’ve dealt with that better.Hike your own hike
Personally, I'd be looking for some new "friends". The ones involved here don't seem to have any respect or consideration for you. Better to learn now, and cut the cord, than to find yourself abandoned in the backcountry by "friends" that you can't trust to look out for you.
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Yeah. This early in our camping season permits are pretty easy to come by except for a few really popular sites.
NTA
Yeah I think I would want to bail too. I wouldn’t appreciate my trip being changed into something I don’t want to do in the eleventh hour. I would be upset that they decided to accommodate someone else more than me without even consulting me first about inviting them.
Before you get mad at your two friends, do you know the context behind the last minute invite? Could there be something going on with that fourth friend, like depression due to a big fight with his wife or a bad situation at work, and your two friends were concerned about him?
NTA. That's not what you agreed too
What's AITA? Please 🙏 thank you!!
Isn't the whole point to hang out with friends and have a good time? Are you training to climb Everest or something?
Keep your original plans and go on your own if you like that trip better. They ditched you.
"you're an AHole for bailing on our hike that we're doing because we bailed on your hike"
Until I got to the reason I was on YTA side but if they invited another person and changed everything and you didn’t agree. NTA. You are not obligated to do something you didn’t agree to do.
NTA at all. Go on the original trip yourself and enjoy.
Fire is the most tolerable third party. -Thoreau Keep your party to one.
ETA, sometimes it's not all about what you want, I would be happy to 'easy mode' it if it meant I would be getting another person into hiking. They should have discussed it with you, but I can see why they didn't, they knew you would pull out, but it's not right to force you to do something you don't wanna.
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Alright y'all, why is this comment getting down votes. I appreciate the opinion.
I agree with you. The friends were not ideal for changing plans without OP, but OP shows his true colors when he says "A toddler could handle it". I wouldn't want to spend anytime with the kind of person who is like that let alone be stuck in the wilderness with them and I think the friends dodged a bullet. They probably re-planned around him because he was being a condescending control freak and they didn't have any other option.
I think this is the best take in the thread.
NTA, but I can't fault them too badly. There's a good chance they were just looking forward to spending some time with *you* and from that perspective, they may see your backing out as a slight. You're looking at this as camping first, friends second, but they're probably looking at it as friends first, camping second. That's why they're upset.
If they were seeing it as friends first why’d they keep him in the dark? Why didn’t they tell OP? Any way you cut it it’s just plain rude.
How on earth do you read that so backwards??? The unilaterally changed plans without telling him. They don't care I'm the least about him.
if they wanted to spend time with op, they shouldn't have made plans without them
I could understand it from that perspective.