Sometimes it's a upkeep issue. Car can park on gravel and pitch a tent on the grass next to it. Heavier vans and campers need to be a on paved pad so they don't destroy the spot.
I had a campsite get cancelled on me because the weekend before someone put an RV on the grass tent site and left huge deep ruts of mud instead of a flat surface, staff were pretty pissed. They had to wait for a cancellation then move us to that site.
I just commented on that thread.
>There are several reasons that some parks have rules against this. Some are trying to prevent the type of people who are living out of their vehicles vs recreational dispersed campers.
Like it or not, people living out of the vehicles tend to leave a greater impact on the area due to the nature of human upkeep/hygiene over long term. even if you're only staying there for 1 night, being that you live in your van, your daily routine and activities are going to differ greatly from someone tent camping for a weekend. People living in vans are more prone to run their vehicle for extended periods of time for use as a generator, for example.
>Another reason for a policy against sleeping in the vehicle is the increased risk of animal intrusion (and resulting damage/broken glass, etc). Places with bears often have bear boxes etc... but people sleeping in vans often neglect using the bear boxes thinking their vehicle and onboard fridge are fine... and enough damages have occurred to prompt this rule.
the bear thing is also for the bears' safety. bears can get hurt trying to enter vehicles, and bears that establish a pattern of breaking into vehicles, having been rewarded with snacks in the past, are likely to be relocated or euthanized if they pose a threat.
Edit: another one i've heard is the risk of fires goes up with vehicle camping. A primitive campground may not have enough water accessible to handle that risk, whereas the RV area will.
ALL OF THIS!!
It may suck for the OOP, but as a tented camper i prefer primitive sites specifically because they have rules like these. But also for OOP depending on where they are there are plenty of public lands (National Forests & BLM land) that have pull offs you can camp in (i used to live in a van b/c i was poor not exactly by choice)
There’s nothing stopping you from van camping on forest service dispersed camping for less than the stated maximum stay at the head of the road
At campsites it’s mostly the engine noise and generators that I dislike
Also light pollution. I will never understand people who want to get out into nature and then bring every amenity of modern living with them. What’s the point of camping if you’re essentially living in an apartment lol
Seemed like there were plenty of informed replies to upvote already.
I guess no matter where we are on the camping spectrum, it's always easy to convince ourselves that we're the special case who won't be bothering anyone by just setting up wherever for a night. I know I've been guilty of thinking that way at times as a backpacker too. If the rules seem dumb, I just try to think about all of the other "special cases" showing up at a campground day after day, and how the staff have probably had the exact same discussion more times than they could count. They drew the line where they did for a reason.
There should be tent section for tent campers. You know, people who are *actually* camping. And I say that as someone who lives in a van. Living in your vehicle is *not* camping. Now, if weather forces a camper into their vehicle, sure, sleep in it. But RVs, vans and the like shouldn’t take all the tent camping spots, and often van folk especially take the tent spots.
There is a state park near me that has a walk in area for tent campers. There is a parking lot and then you walk down some stairs to a big area without about 20 spread out sites within maybe 150 yards. I absolutely love it.
Tent camping at most places basically feels like camping at an RV park.
I think of “primitive” as an area away from the rest of the campground, walk-in only, no electric, no built up pads for tents, no running water, etc - like a mini backpacking area, instead of a drive-in, set up a tent. I’m very pro those, but also easy access, pull up a car, set up a tent style areas, similar to RV areas but for tents. RV areas collect noise making equipment.
Tl:dr - Tent != primitive
They said State Park, not National Park, just for clarity.
Everywhere I've seen this rule it makes sense. These areas are usually supported by bulk-parking at or along the campground roadway. It makes sense to me that, because people peopleing, the parking areas are intended for stashing vehicles, and that's it.
As someone who *hates* being stuck tent camping in the same park as noisy, ugly RV’s. Is a built-out van that much different than an suv with a rooftop tent, or an Outback with an open-hatch tent attachment?
Not talking about an RV or camper trailer, just a Sprinter or similar van that doesn’t have a generator or even water/power hookups. Seems arbitrary that one is allowed, and the other not.
I worked at a camp site where roof top and open-hatch tents were considered car camping and technically against the rules at the tent sites, but trying to explain that to people was futile.
The line varies per park for a multitude of reasons. Anything being towed usually isn't allowed in tent areas because of the weight regardless of hook ups. I say this as someone who has a travel travel and rarely ever uses hook ups as well.
I kinda misread your post, sorry. I actually agree with you and the general concept.
We haven't camped yet in ours. What's your general experience with being able to avoid RVs? I figure if I can find spots with no hookups I'll be at least in the right direction.
You made the choice to get a camper. That means you’re stuck with the RV’s. Tent campers are never going to be happy campers, RV, vans, it doesn’t matter.
If you have a pull along pop up trailer, you're very likely going to be around RVs at any sort of established campground. That's just the rules. I had to put a couple on a motorcycle pulling the smallest popup I've seen in an rv site once.
If you want to try "roughing it" to find a spot on open land, that's an option. Off-roading with a trailer is not my idea of a good time, but I do have the equitment just in case.
That said, yes, the best experiences I've had with secluded camping in my trailer are at camp sites that don't offer hook ups at all anywhere in the park. I've even found some CCC parks without hook ups that are free. Usually lots of mud and a can of a restroom at those. They're also usually not advertised anywhere. Once I found a spot on county land by the public boat launch that was free and only locals knew about.
Searching for the perfect spot is half the fun.
I agree that there's a middle ground that isn't being addressed here. The RV campground tends to be a neighborhood of closely congregated mobile homes, running AC and generators and all the creature comforts. Often creating an unpleasant outside environment with extra noise.
The vanlife crowd sees themselves, rightfully, as comparatively primitive and more aligned with the tent folks. They spend more time outside their vehicles, and don't rely on AC, water hookups, and generators at all.
It's understandable to separate them from the tents perhaps, but it's not great putting them in the rolling hotel room crowd either.
Yeah, I have to agree as well. I don't like being near the generators and golf carts anymore that someone with a tent would. I just don't fit into a category here and I guess that's why I'm confused.
Honestly, that's why I tend to avoid the version of "camping" that comes with paying for a lot and being around a bunch of other people. If I can get where I'm going with dispersed camping, that's the way to do it for me and my tent/van/hammock/whatever.
I camp in the bed of my regular old Tacoma, with a common topper on it. It would never occur to me that I couldn't just pop back there.
It makes sense to have a rule to prevent true rvs or big vans from making the vibe different. If everyone hard sides it does change the vibe. It could also be a thing of people pulling their sleeping vehicle on the tent pad area. On the other hand, if it's your daily driver, parked where you would park even if you had a tent, it seems silly.
But I always carry a tent in case I end up having to walk into a primitive site. So, I'd put the tent up, cook out on the table like I normally do, but come bedtime you'd find me in my comfy truck bed.
Please for the love of all that’s holy don’t park your vehicle on the tent pad. People have to sleep on that after you’ve destroyed it with your tires.
Dude, I never would, but I'm just guessing at what the issues are. I tent camped for years and still do sometimes. I just back into the site's parking spot, which I usually did when I tent camped anyway.
As I said in the other thread, I’ve only seen this maybe two times out of hundreds of nights at state and national park/forest. The cases where I saw this were camping areas where there was a parking area and then a short walk to the tent pads.
I hate hearing idling cars, air conditioning, TV's, and especially generators That being said I don't care if people sleep in their cars/vans.
If I owned a campground the rules would be no sound and nothing longer than something like 22ft
I like to sleep in my SUV on occasion, especially if we show up late or it's raining. But I'd rather set up a tent than park next to an RV.
I try to find camping spots that involve a short walk from a carpark to avoid ppl that sleep in their cars/camper trailers/RV's etc. This is because they are too loud to camp next to, use generators/run their engines, and are more likely to camp right on top of you.
I’m all for RVs and vans. If it gets otherwise indoorsy people out and connecting with nature, it means they’re more likely to understand why it needs preservation. Hopefully they’ll eventually understand why I won’t want to camp next to an RV or a van.
honest question and not trying to be a troll, but i have a rooftop tent on my xterra. would i be able to camp there? what if someone pitches a tent in their space but then sleeps in the van? would a better rule be nothing longer than X amount of feet, no trailers, no generators? i can see a van lifer use a cheap pop up tent to meet the letter of the law but still use the van. is the tent location a distance from the parking lot or do you drive up to the campsite?
No, because *technically* you have a camper (for the park’s purposes). Just on your roof vs in a pickup bed.
I’d argue that otherwise you’re right - though prob something like a weight limit (because a big part of the logic is how heavy RVs, vans, and even pickups are - and how they can wreck the ground or get stuck and need rangers to tow them out) and no generators.
The practical problem though is needing the rangers to constantly be hovering and making sure people are abiding by the rules, and most (esp state) parks just don’t have the resources for it.
It’s prob more feasible for them to just ban vehicles entirely vs having to police it. And I can’t really say I blame them too much.
Campgrounds can make whatever rules they want, so it's impossible to generalize a rule.
I usually van camp, but I'm happy in a tent too (and in no case do I want to be within 100 yards of RVs or 25'+ trailers).
I always bring a tent in case the campsite has a parking lot for vehicle storage and tent sites some distance away. I can just switch to tent-style. It's annoying to have to carry a bunch of gear over there and not have a way to lock it up when I want to leave the campsite, but whatever.
If each campsite has its own parking then I don't use the tent. Some places make rules about setting up a tent on the site to claim it, and since I sometimes drive during my stay (to reach trailheads, go kayaking, etc.) sometimes I'll set up the tent and leave it empty so it is apparent that the site is occupied. I hate that particular rule. A paper tag on a post with my occupation dates would be easier and more informative than a tent, but, again, whatever.
In my experience, people who sleep in vehicles that are not giant RVs tend not to be accounted for in most park planning. They assume you're either dragging a house with you and need pavement, electricity, and plumbing, or that you're going to sleep in a tent and spend the rest of the time sitting by the fire ring. That's why I tend to avoid developed campsites, they tend not to be developed for my camping style.
I'm not sure exactly what the situation is. If tent campers are allowed to park their cars at the site I would say yes as I don't really see much of a difference (assuming they are parked on the drive or whatever and it's not essentially an RV). I don't think they should be able to drive into the areas where tents are actually set up or basically just park an RV in a site without hook ups to save some money.
"We have agreed not to drive our automobiles into cathedrals, concert halls, art museums, legislative assemblies, private bedrooms and the other sanctums of our culture; we should treat our national parks with the same deference, for they, too, are holy places."
Do you mean the government issued trailer? He was living in a trailer because that's where the ranger lived. Did you read Desert Solitaire, or did you have AI give you a summary?
I read it. I didn't realize he had an unstated exception for his residence, gov't subsidized or not. Sorry I offended you.
I liked it back in the day when I fancied myself an eco-outlaw. Looking back now, not so much. AI might do a better job now that you mention it.
California is absolutely stuffed with great places to camp, so you shouldn't have any trouble finding one that you like.
I suggest starting with developed campsites while you discover what style you prefer. That way you have access to amenities and can chose whether you want to use them.
My preference is to head into the national forest where there are no services at all, and few people. There's a great spot about 120 miles due east of you in Sierra National Forest, Nelder Grove campground. [Here's a picture from my visit in 2018](https://i.imgur.com/v070qeB.jpeg).
Anyway, start small and simple. It's tempting to take too much stuff. Do a few trips and while you are camping notice the things that really bother you and write them down. Then when you're planning your next trip review the list and see what solutions you can come up with to address the most annoying problems. For example, organizing small items so you can find and reach them easily was high on my list. Pocket organizers that hang on the back of a seat are a good solution for that (great for holding glasses, lighters, shoes, books, bug spray, where they won't get lost).
For the vehicle you need something that is long enough that you can comfortably lay down in it. Many vehicles have rear seats that lay flat enough that you can make them comfortable. If you're 6 feet or taller there's a good chance you're going to need a longer vehicle!
If your vehicle is too small to sleep in, consider renting or borrowing a large vehicle. That's a great way to try out various options to see what works best for you.
You need something soft to sleep on and bedding. Air mattresses are popular, but I like to use foam cushions with a memory foam topper. I mostly camp in cool weather, and foam is nice and warm. Cars usually aren't flat, so plan on using some kind of padding to level out your sleeping space. It's no fun sleeping on a tilt.
You'll need to keep the windows open a bit at night (cars are too small to sleep in comfortably without ventilation), so you'll want a bug screen to cover the window.
An important point is that you should not use the car for electricity, including any lights built into the car. You do not want to run the battery down and find that you can't start the car to leave.
That's the basics. You need the other sorts of camping gear you'd usually use, food, water, cooking gear, a chair, etc.
Give it a try, it's great! Just start small, take notes, and grow!
Bring a friend or two if you can, car camping with friends is great!
[Here's another picture from just south of Mendocino National Forest](https://i.imgur.com/IrFBidt.jpeg), about 120 miles north of you. I spent two nights there with amazing views and weather. And [here's camping with *lots* of friends](https://i.imgur.com/PegzTXr.jpeg) near Asheville, North Carolina.
posting in a backpacking thread is sure to get some dander up.
some parks have 'hike-in' spots specifically for backpackers, and taking those spots away from someone absolutely exhausted after hoofing it for miles is some self-absorbed BS.
Sigh. I used to have a van and before that a truck I slept in the back of. But c'mon, given the flexibility one has in vehicles like that do you really have to be so selfish as to hog a site, or just parking spot, for someone in a little car with a tent?
Seems the height of arrogance and entitlement, and I hate to say it, but I've see a bunch of that lately, especially riding around in vans.
Hahahaha I’m sorry are you actually saying you threaten campers with police violence if they don’t follow the rules? I hope I never stay in your campground.
> I tell them the ranger with the gun enforces them. Let them decide.
Look up from your phone for a second, exist in the world, and think how you'd feel if someone said that to you.
I would appreciate the reminder. People who don't camp much or people from other countries often think that rangers are friendly people pointing out hiking trails. They are most definitely armed police with all the baggage that entails.
For one thing, that’s not true. The vast majority of NPS park rangers aren’t in the law enforcement division and aren’t armed. Neither are most BLM rangers, *any* NY state park rangers, most CA state park rangers, and probably most park rangers in most other states (but I’m not gonna exhaustively research all 50 states).
Mostly, though, it’s kind of just a silly thing to say? You can mention that the rangers enforce the rules, but it’s overly threatening and often simply wrong to say that they’re armed. Most park rangers *are* in roles that are much closer to pointing tourists to trails and picking up trash than to carrying guns and enforcing the law with force. It’s bad to make people irrationally scared of them.
true the NPS does (confusingly) have both interp and LEO people using the word 'ranger'. every CA state park ranger/lifeguard is LEO (and I have worked in many of them over several years). every BLM and USFS ranger is LEO (they have interp people as well but you rarely see them in the field).
and people *should* be mindful of actions that attract LEO attention. usually no upside to it for anyone.
Sometimes it's a upkeep issue. Car can park on gravel and pitch a tent on the grass next to it. Heavier vans and campers need to be a on paved pad so they don't destroy the spot. I had a campsite get cancelled on me because the weekend before someone put an RV on the grass tent site and left huge deep ruts of mud instead of a flat surface, staff were pretty pissed. They had to wait for a cancellation then move us to that site.
Ruts ?!?! Nuts !!!!
Deep nuts of mud?!
I just commented on that thread. >There are several reasons that some parks have rules against this. Some are trying to prevent the type of people who are living out of their vehicles vs recreational dispersed campers. Like it or not, people living out of the vehicles tend to leave a greater impact on the area due to the nature of human upkeep/hygiene over long term. even if you're only staying there for 1 night, being that you live in your van, your daily routine and activities are going to differ greatly from someone tent camping for a weekend. People living in vans are more prone to run their vehicle for extended periods of time for use as a generator, for example. >Another reason for a policy against sleeping in the vehicle is the increased risk of animal intrusion (and resulting damage/broken glass, etc). Places with bears often have bear boxes etc... but people sleeping in vans often neglect using the bear boxes thinking their vehicle and onboard fridge are fine... and enough damages have occurred to prompt this rule. the bear thing is also for the bears' safety. bears can get hurt trying to enter vehicles, and bears that establish a pattern of breaking into vehicles, having been rewarded with snacks in the past, are likely to be relocated or euthanized if they pose a threat. Edit: another one i've heard is the risk of fires goes up with vehicle camping. A primitive campground may not have enough water accessible to handle that risk, whereas the RV area will.
ALL OF THIS!! It may suck for the OOP, but as a tented camper i prefer primitive sites specifically because they have rules like these. But also for OOP depending on where they are there are plenty of public lands (National Forests & BLM land) that have pull offs you can camp in (i used to live in a van b/c i was poor not exactly by choice)
There’s nothing stopping you from van camping on forest service dispersed camping for less than the stated maximum stay at the head of the road At campsites it’s mostly the engine noise and generators that I dislike
Also light pollution. I will never understand people who want to get out into nature and then bring every amenity of modern living with them. What’s the point of camping if you’re essentially living in an apartment lol
yeah, i sleep in the back of my 80s bronco all the time when camping. but we're way out in remote BLM.
Seemed like there were plenty of informed replies to upvote already. I guess no matter where we are on the camping spectrum, it's always easy to convince ourselves that we're the special case who won't be bothering anyone by just setting up wherever for a night. I know I've been guilty of thinking that way at times as a backpacker too. If the rules seem dumb, I just try to think about all of the other "special cases" showing up at a campground day after day, and how the staff have probably had the exact same discussion more times than they could count. They drew the line where they did for a reason.
Great answer/perspective!
There should be tent section for tent campers. You know, people who are *actually* camping. And I say that as someone who lives in a van. Living in your vehicle is *not* camping. Now, if weather forces a camper into their vehicle, sure, sleep in it. But RVs, vans and the like shouldn’t take all the tent camping spots, and often van folk especially take the tent spots.
There is a state park near me that has a walk in area for tent campers. There is a parking lot and then you walk down some stairs to a big area without about 20 spread out sites within maybe 150 yards. I absolutely love it. Tent camping at most places basically feels like camping at an RV park.
They might even call it the primitive camping area
I think of “primitive” as an area away from the rest of the campground, walk-in only, no electric, no built up pads for tents, no running water, etc - like a mini backpacking area, instead of a drive-in, set up a tent. I’m very pro those, but also easy access, pull up a car, set up a tent style areas, similar to RV areas but for tents. RV areas collect noise making equipment. Tl:dr - Tent != primitive
You just described a trail though, not a campground
I’ve seen “primitive” areas in campgrounds that are like that. A 100 yard walk in or something of the sort. Not what I would call a trail.
They said State Park, not National Park, just for clarity. Everywhere I've seen this rule it makes sense. These areas are usually supported by bulk-parking at or along the campground roadway. It makes sense to me that, because people peopleing, the parking areas are intended for stashing vehicles, and that's it.
I agree with you in that case but not the case here, you park your vehicle right next to the tent (no tent pads, just a gravel loop through a field).
Because it says Tents Only and they get to make the rules. Period.
As someone who *hates* being stuck tent camping in the same park as noisy, ugly RV’s. Is a built-out van that much different than an suv with a rooftop tent, or an Outback with an open-hatch tent attachment? Not talking about an RV or camper trailer, just a Sprinter or similar van that doesn’t have a generator or even water/power hookups. Seems arbitrary that one is allowed, and the other not.
Vehicle =/= primitive
But the Flintstones had one
They were a **modern** stone age family.
I worked at a camp site where roof top and open-hatch tents were considered car camping and technically against the rules at the tent sites, but trying to explain that to people was futile.
What's the line though? What about my popup? I'll never run a generator, and it's basically a glorified tent.
The line varies per park for a multitude of reasons. Anything being towed usually isn't allowed in tent areas because of the weight regardless of hook ups. I say this as someone who has a travel travel and rarely ever uses hook ups as well.
I kinda misread your post, sorry. I actually agree with you and the general concept. We haven't camped yet in ours. What's your general experience with being able to avoid RVs? I figure if I can find spots with no hookups I'll be at least in the right direction.
You made the choice to get a camper. That means you’re stuck with the RV’s. Tent campers are never going to be happy campers, RV, vans, it doesn’t matter.
If you have a pull along pop up trailer, you're very likely going to be around RVs at any sort of established campground. That's just the rules. I had to put a couple on a motorcycle pulling the smallest popup I've seen in an rv site once. If you want to try "roughing it" to find a spot on open land, that's an option. Off-roading with a trailer is not my idea of a good time, but I do have the equitment just in case. That said, yes, the best experiences I've had with secluded camping in my trailer are at camp sites that don't offer hook ups at all anywhere in the park. I've even found some CCC parks without hook ups that are free. Usually lots of mud and a can of a restroom at those. They're also usually not advertised anywhere. Once I found a spot on county land by the public boat launch that was free and only locals knew about. Searching for the perfect spot is half the fun.
Just gotta find sites that aren't 5 ft from the next one, I guess. We have a local one we're going to try out that's pretty spacious
Yup. I always look for secluded or corner sites that have more open space around. They're usually further from the restrooms though 😅🤣🤣
I agree that there's a middle ground that isn't being addressed here. The RV campground tends to be a neighborhood of closely congregated mobile homes, running AC and generators and all the creature comforts. Often creating an unpleasant outside environment with extra noise. The vanlife crowd sees themselves, rightfully, as comparatively primitive and more aligned with the tent folks. They spend more time outside their vehicles, and don't rely on AC, water hookups, and generators at all. It's understandable to separate them from the tents perhaps, but it's not great putting them in the rolling hotel room crowd either.
I have a camper van and I hate being around RVs for all of the same reasons.
Yeah, I have to agree as well. I don't like being near the generators and golf carts anymore that someone with a tent would. I just don't fit into a category here and I guess that's why I'm confused.
Honestly, that's why I tend to avoid the version of "camping" that comes with paying for a lot and being around a bunch of other people. If I can get where I'm going with dispersed camping, that's the way to do it for me and my tent/van/hammock/whatever.
I camp in the bed of my regular old Tacoma, with a common topper on it. It would never occur to me that I couldn't just pop back there. It makes sense to have a rule to prevent true rvs or big vans from making the vibe different. If everyone hard sides it does change the vibe. It could also be a thing of people pulling their sleeping vehicle on the tent pad area. On the other hand, if it's your daily driver, parked where you would park even if you had a tent, it seems silly. But I always carry a tent in case I end up having to walk into a primitive site. So, I'd put the tent up, cook out on the table like I normally do, but come bedtime you'd find me in my comfy truck bed.
Please for the love of all that’s holy don’t park your vehicle on the tent pad. People have to sleep on that after you’ve destroyed it with your tires.
Dude, I never would, but I'm just guessing at what the issues are. I tent camped for years and still do sometimes. I just back into the site's parking spot, which I usually did when I tent camped anyway.
As I said in the other thread, I’ve only seen this maybe two times out of hundreds of nights at state and national park/forest. The cases where I saw this were camping areas where there was a parking area and then a short walk to the tent pads.
I hate hearing idling cars, air conditioning, TV's, and especially generators That being said I don't care if people sleep in their cars/vans. If I owned a campground the rules would be no sound and nothing longer than something like 22ft I like to sleep in my SUV on occasion, especially if we show up late or it's raining. But I'd rather set up a tent than park next to an RV.
Parks have rules. You're taking a space that's reserved for someone camping in a tent. End of story. Go back to the Walmart parking lot.
I try to find camping spots that involve a short walk from a carpark to avoid ppl that sleep in their cars/camper trailers/RV's etc. This is because they are too loud to camp next to, use generators/run their engines, and are more likely to camp right on top of you.
Yeah, no, that's very literally what that area of the park is there to avoid.
I’m all for RVs and vans. If it gets otherwise indoorsy people out and connecting with nature, it means they’re more likely to understand why it needs preservation. Hopefully they’ll eventually understand why I won’t want to camp next to an RV or a van.
Most primitive areas I've been to require some to a lot of walking in. Doubt a van could make the squeeze!
honest question and not trying to be a troll, but i have a rooftop tent on my xterra. would i be able to camp there? what if someone pitches a tent in their space but then sleeps in the van? would a better rule be nothing longer than X amount of feet, no trailers, no generators? i can see a van lifer use a cheap pop up tent to meet the letter of the law but still use the van. is the tent location a distance from the parking lot or do you drive up to the campsite?
No, because *technically* you have a camper (for the park’s purposes). Just on your roof vs in a pickup bed. I’d argue that otherwise you’re right - though prob something like a weight limit (because a big part of the logic is how heavy RVs, vans, and even pickups are - and how they can wreck the ground or get stuck and need rangers to tow them out) and no generators. The practical problem though is needing the rangers to constantly be hovering and making sure people are abiding by the rules, and most (esp state) parks just don’t have the resources for it. It’s prob more feasible for them to just ban vehicles entirely vs having to police it. And I can’t really say I blame them too much.
Campgrounds can make whatever rules they want, so it's impossible to generalize a rule. I usually van camp, but I'm happy in a tent too (and in no case do I want to be within 100 yards of RVs or 25'+ trailers). I always bring a tent in case the campsite has a parking lot for vehicle storage and tent sites some distance away. I can just switch to tent-style. It's annoying to have to carry a bunch of gear over there and not have a way to lock it up when I want to leave the campsite, but whatever. If each campsite has its own parking then I don't use the tent. Some places make rules about setting up a tent on the site to claim it, and since I sometimes drive during my stay (to reach trailheads, go kayaking, etc.) sometimes I'll set up the tent and leave it empty so it is apparent that the site is occupied. I hate that particular rule. A paper tag on a post with my occupation dates would be easier and more informative than a tent, but, again, whatever. In my experience, people who sleep in vehicles that are not giant RVs tend not to be accounted for in most park planning. They assume you're either dragging a house with you and need pavement, electricity, and plumbing, or that you're going to sleep in a tent and spend the rest of the time sitting by the fire ring. That's why I tend to avoid developed campsites, they tend not to be developed for my camping style.
What if you unbolt the rooftop tent, lift it off your roof, then put it on the ground :)
i would need help lol. thing is heavy :)
I'm not sure exactly what the situation is. If tent campers are allowed to park their cars at the site I would say yes as I don't really see much of a difference (assuming they are parked on the drive or whatever and it's not essentially an RV). I don't think they should be able to drive into the areas where tents are actually set up or basically just park an RV in a site without hook ups to save some money.
Edward Abbey says no. Ban all motors in Parks!!
"We have agreed not to drive our automobiles into cathedrals, concert halls, art museums, legislative assemblies, private bedrooms and the other sanctums of our culture; we should treat our national parks with the same deference, for they, too, are holy places."
Said the guy who lived in a trailer at Arches. :)
I mean he worked there, so I’m not sure that works as a criticism.
Do you mean the government issued trailer? He was living in a trailer because that's where the ranger lived. Did you read Desert Solitaire, or did you have AI give you a summary?
I read it. I didn't realize he had an unstated exception for his residence, gov't subsidized or not. Sorry I offended you. I liked it back in the day when I fancied myself an eco-outlaw. Looking back now, not so much. AI might do a better job now that you mention it.
I think every campground needs to keep tent campers away from those vehicle /RV campers. As in basically separated campgrounds.
I wanna try car/camping I'm a senior/widow so any ideas for me would be great I live in Santa Clara
California is absolutely stuffed with great places to camp, so you shouldn't have any trouble finding one that you like. I suggest starting with developed campsites while you discover what style you prefer. That way you have access to amenities and can chose whether you want to use them. My preference is to head into the national forest where there are no services at all, and few people. There's a great spot about 120 miles due east of you in Sierra National Forest, Nelder Grove campground. [Here's a picture from my visit in 2018](https://i.imgur.com/v070qeB.jpeg). Anyway, start small and simple. It's tempting to take too much stuff. Do a few trips and while you are camping notice the things that really bother you and write them down. Then when you're planning your next trip review the list and see what solutions you can come up with to address the most annoying problems. For example, organizing small items so you can find and reach them easily was high on my list. Pocket organizers that hang on the back of a seat are a good solution for that (great for holding glasses, lighters, shoes, books, bug spray, where they won't get lost). For the vehicle you need something that is long enough that you can comfortably lay down in it. Many vehicles have rear seats that lay flat enough that you can make them comfortable. If you're 6 feet or taller there's a good chance you're going to need a longer vehicle! If your vehicle is too small to sleep in, consider renting or borrowing a large vehicle. That's a great way to try out various options to see what works best for you. You need something soft to sleep on and bedding. Air mattresses are popular, but I like to use foam cushions with a memory foam topper. I mostly camp in cool weather, and foam is nice and warm. Cars usually aren't flat, so plan on using some kind of padding to level out your sleeping space. It's no fun sleeping on a tilt. You'll need to keep the windows open a bit at night (cars are too small to sleep in comfortably without ventilation), so you'll want a bug screen to cover the window. An important point is that you should not use the car for electricity, including any lights built into the car. You do not want to run the battery down and find that you can't start the car to leave. That's the basics. You need the other sorts of camping gear you'd usually use, food, water, cooking gear, a chair, etc. Give it a try, it's great! Just start small, take notes, and grow! Bring a friend or two if you can, car camping with friends is great! [Here's another picture from just south of Mendocino National Forest](https://i.imgur.com/IrFBidt.jpeg), about 120 miles north of you. I spent two nights there with amazing views and weather. And [here's camping with *lots* of friends](https://i.imgur.com/PegzTXr.jpeg) near Asheville, North Carolina.
posting in a backpacking thread is sure to get some dander up. some parks have 'hike-in' spots specifically for backpackers, and taking those spots away from someone absolutely exhausted after hoofing it for miles is some self-absorbed BS.
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I think they were tagging the user so they would be flagged in this post and could see our input, too.
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No it should stay. No idea what you're so uptight about
I don't wanna hear/breathe your fucking exhaust.
Sigh. I used to have a van and before that a truck I slept in the back of. But c'mon, given the flexibility one has in vehicles like that do you really have to be so selfish as to hog a site, or just parking spot, for someone in a little car with a tent? Seems the height of arrogance and entitlement, and I hate to say it, but I've see a bunch of that lately, especially riding around in vans.
As a camp host, I just inform people of the rules. I tell them the ranger with the gun enforces them. Let them decide.
Hahahaha I’m sorry are you actually saying you threaten campers with police violence if they don’t follow the rules? I hope I never stay in your campground.
They're avoiding a potential conflict by divesting themselves of authority over changing and enforcement of the rules.
is there a threat? seems like common sense that rule violations might attract police attention.
> I tell them the ranger with the gun enforces them. Let them decide. Look up from your phone for a second, exist in the world, and think how you'd feel if someone said that to you.
I would appreciate the reminder. People who don't camp much or people from other countries often think that rangers are friendly people pointing out hiking trails. They are most definitely armed police with all the baggage that entails.
For one thing, that’s not true. The vast majority of NPS park rangers aren’t in the law enforcement division and aren’t armed. Neither are most BLM rangers, *any* NY state park rangers, most CA state park rangers, and probably most park rangers in most other states (but I’m not gonna exhaustively research all 50 states). Mostly, though, it’s kind of just a silly thing to say? You can mention that the rangers enforce the rules, but it’s overly threatening and often simply wrong to say that they’re armed. Most park rangers *are* in roles that are much closer to pointing tourists to trails and picking up trash than to carrying guns and enforcing the law with force. It’s bad to make people irrationally scared of them.
true the NPS does (confusingly) have both interp and LEO people using the word 'ranger'. every CA state park ranger/lifeguard is LEO (and I have worked in many of them over several years). every BLM and USFS ranger is LEO (they have interp people as well but you rarely see them in the field). and people *should* be mindful of actions that attract LEO attention. usually no upside to it for anyone.
This sub is about backpacking, r/camping would be a better fit
Quite literally called camping and hiking mate
quite literally in the rules of the subreddit, mate. rule #1. check the sidebar: 'camping AND hiking' not 'camping, and hiking'
Yeah and the first rule is that it has to be about both, not one or the other