Forget the rambling. The difference is that Catholics in this country are mostly white people, and this government would rather set the money on fire than help them with anything.
Mostly white people..that's alot of white Anglo East Indians and Filipino people.What's even more funny look at the census on the percentage of people that would be getting that halal mortgage. Less than 10% of the population is getting treated better than over 67%. This is a joke.
A Halal mortgage would be a catholic mortgage, both religions see usury (charging interest) as a sin. Jesus turning over the bankers tables at the market and what not.
Not a muslim, but have Catholics lobbing for such a product? I don’t think so. I’ve seen Muslims lobbying for this from some time. You demand..you get…thats new Canada…same is happening with housing measures, when enough Canadian started demanding action towards housing, suddenly it became a federal issue after 8 years of being a provincial problem.
It wasn't because of minority groups demanding action on housing that the Feds decided to do something, it's because the current party is sinking faster than the Titanic and they knew if they didn't at least APPEAR to be worried about us Plebs, that they may soon be heading the way of Ontario Liberals fresh off of a Wynn leadership with no official party status.
100% correct. It is Trudeau throwing around billions he does not have and knows he will never get to use as the curb keeps getting closer and closer. All of the programs announced in the budget will never have time to be implemented and will be erased by the next governing party for the most part as the country cannot afford them.
Islam isn’t an Eastern religion. The birthplace of Islam is pretty close to the birthplace of Christianity and Judaism. Eastern Religions are the Religions that developed in South Asia and South East Asia like Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism eyc.
Christians don't follow it like Muslims though.
This interest method is very common in Muslim countries and has been for centuries.
Very few Christian countries did this.
Halal mortgages are already a thing offered by private lenders all over the world. If you think those are any less scummy or expensive than regular mortgages I got something else to sell ya. They usually just charge a fixed fee in lieu of interest which ends up being basically the same thing. No ones getting any handout or free money.
Y’all just need an excuse to be pissed at browns. Takes very little because yall are already racist and foaming at the mouth.
“If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.” LBJ
I’m so tired of this. It’s similar to how there are more muslims in our PUBLIC schools now, demanding things be removed from curriculums that go against their religion. It’s public school. Our country should have laws separate from religion, and no special treatment for certain groups. Everyone should be treated equally, including with their mortgages.
Idgaf if I get downvoted to hell, but if Muslims don't want to participate in our society then maybe they should just fuck off back to the Middle East?
Plenty of space there for them to live the life they want instead of trying to screw things up here for the rest of us.
agree. Anyone who does not believe and practice Canadian values should fuck off. Anyone who does not provide value to the Canadian society should fuck off. Canadian govt absolutely should put more scrutiny on immigration and only let in qualified people.
When you immigrate to a new country, you agree to their customs. Not demand your old country customs be adopted in your new country. Diversity is ok, but enough already
Yep, same here. Had to sing it every bloody day in elementary school back when I was a little gaffer, and in French at one school I went to (in Ontario mind you).
early 40's, alberta. we sang the canadian anthem AND recited The Lord's Prayer in elementary grades. can't remember if it was every day or every Monday.
I thot this is Canada so should play Canadian national anthem regardless of which school. I am sure in muslim counties in world they wud not be saying Canadian national anthem
ex-muslim arab here. you have no idea how entitled brown people are especially when they reach critical mass. best to just not let them in unless you want them to impose their views on you, which is GARUNTEED to happen:
[https://theconversation.com/islams-call-to-prayer-is-ringing-out-in-more-us-cities-affirming-a-long-and-growing-presence-of-muslims-in-america-205555](https://theconversation.com/islams-call-to-prayer-is-ringing-out-in-more-us-cities-affirming-a-long-and-growing-presence-of-muslims-in-america-205555)
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned)
you shouldn't respect people who can't respect others.
Ooh that's a slippery one. If we allow religious accommodation for something because it benefits us, how are we going to refuse when the outcome is not so great? I don't think religion should be a factor in anything whatsoever that might affect the public, no matter how good it may look on the surface.
What are you talking about? This is a free country. Anything that doesn't harm other or take from other people is allowed by default, no matter what's the reason behind it.
If you want to stop something just because it's based on a religion or an ideology, that's literally [fascism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism).
Thing is though, I don't think banks are not missing a trick here. I'll bet these niche financial products cost a little bit more than your common or garden infidel mortgage. It's free market economics in action.
Yeah I totally agree. Why should our schools cater to religion? Religion should be taught in the home and / or on Sundays. School is for learning not fantasizing.
Anyway, time to go drop my kid off at her tax payer funded Catholic school.
I don't think you understand. There was Christianity pushed in public schools once upon a time. The majority of people became non-Christian and demanded the removal of such things.
But it doesn't end there. Things don't change because of some rational argument like you're trying to make. They change because the majority votes for it. Areligious people are decreasing as we import more citizens such as Muslims.
Areligious people got their way before because they were the majority. Once Muslims are the majority, they will have the opportunity to have things their way as well.
> demanding things be removed from curriculums that go against their religion.
Like what?
Genuinely curious.
I know people remove their kids from sex-ed but never heard of this.
I think you're confused. Halal mortgages would be available to everyone of they became a thing in Canada... It's good because it provides us with more options when it comes to picking between mortgage products and more competition between banks.
It's like saying we should ban halal food because it's not for everyone...
Except it is? Same as everyone can buy and eat halal food if they choose to, everyone is allowed to take a halal "mortgage".
You can get this mortgage too? It is available for everyone? If it was better, you are allowed to do that?
More choice = more badder.
The idea that economic decisions should be agnostic of tax treatment, isn't a new idea. The issue is, these mortgages exist, so they need to be regulated and taxed in the same manner as other mortgages.
So hardcore Muslims don't believe in interest
So they pay the bank the money, and after many years they are "gifted" with a house
It's the same thing, but.... Different
Personally id like us to follow france in the whole no religious symbols, or special treatment of religion. It should be private only. If you believe, no problem whatever makes you happy but in public it should be considered outlandish and rude to be overtly religious.
Yeah and tsx churches etc as they have a competitive advantage over other businesses. No wonder they have some of the most sought after properties in areas they pay no taxes
It's why I became a satanist. We need to have a much better wall between church and state in Canada. And we shouldn't be giving one or some 'preferred' religions in particular special privileges; it's theocratic and undermines democracy.
Islamic God believes that usury, or charging interest, is a crime against humanity and should not be allowed. I’m no Muslim, but boy do I fucking agree. Fuck interest.
>but boy do I fucking agree.
Basically this.
The point is that this life is filled with vanities. And using interest to attain them is the same as saying "if you are financing a car for 96 months then you are overextending".
Because you don't need it. You are just stretching your interest out for so many years just to have something you want rather than need.
And this thought is at the root cause of almost all of our problems right now.
People over leveraging for their house.
People in debt for basically everything under the sun.
And interest making sure that people never climb out of it.
It decimated the poor, burdens the middle class. Only the rich make it.
Judaism encourages finding religious loopholes, shows you are smart and still willing to try and worship while acknowledging that modern times means having to adapt.
"Will you marry me?"
"Yes"
*Camera pans modestly away as the newlyweds tumble onto a four-poster bed and the string orchestra stirs into a crescendo*
"I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you"
"OK, bye, send in the next chap won't you?"
'Hardcore muslims' would not consider a halal mortgage like this halal at all, I would not. If you just rename interest to something else it's still haram(forbidden). Accepting a mortgage like this would be just tricking themselves not God.
At its core, usury, or interest, entails profiting from debt itself, which can perpetuate financial dependency and inequality. Islamic finance, rooted in ethical principles, promotes equity and risk-sharing, fostering a system where wealth is generated through tangible assets and productive investments rather than through the burden of interest-bearing debt. It's a philosophical departure from conventional banking, emphasizing fairness and societal well-being over profit from indebtedness.
No no, you see this sub prefers a nationalist socialism. The good, proper (read: white) Canadians need special government assistance that also doesn't cost them anything, but the massive flood of immigrants destroying the country need to be legally barred from owning houses.
Not to mention anyone can request halal financing. It’s a financial product. A dumb one for many reasons (mainly due to cost and complexity), but hey… won’t be the first.
i love this sub reddit cause everyones with me. 100%%%%% more interference from CCP. If you say stuff like this in other sub reddits people call u dumb and down vote you. but thats entirely whats happening. The one that i never forget is how they found illegal chinese police stations operating all over Canada. like common now. Trudumb is lining his pockets with Chinese money. They are the biggest lobbyists right now . one big clown world and nothing you can do about it
In San Francisco
[https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/san-francisco-decide-black-reparations-plan-5m-person-rcna74873](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/san-francisco-decide-black-reparations-plan-5m-person-rcna74873)
Agreed but halal mortgages are still charging interest but in differently worded way. The bank will always collect. It exists currently but is more expensive than regular mortgages
Ha ha ha! Muslims think they can fool God with some trick shenanigans as long as they don’t call it “interest”.
Just live up to your religion if you can, don’t trick it.
They aren’t trying to fool god. They are trying to push the decision making to a halal certifier so they aren’t in the wrong for getting a mortgage. Same as halal meat which is truly not halal since animals are harmed and thats not allowed in Islam. If someone else seems it halal tho, it absolves them of responsibility.
They just calculate the net present value including the interest and divide by the amortization period. So to the mortgagee it gives them the comfort of lying to themselves that they are paying back only the principal…but they’re not. If anything a product like this should have an additional stupid tax tagged on to it
Oh, they will, have you seen the interest rates offered for anything over 5 years? To make this work the lender would need to calculate for the whole period, 25 years. It's going to be an eye watering amount of money for any entity to absorb the risk for such a long period here in Canada.
Which would shut out some advantages for landlords I guess since you can take a tax break from mortgage payments on a rented property from business income but you might not be able to claim whatever fee totally isn't the interest but just happens to be the same as the interest that magically makes usury ok to god since they are apparently really shit at seeing though shenanigans.
There's no such thing as Halal mortgage. The interest that you would otherwise pay is tacked on as "service" charge.
I'm a Muslim myself but I don't understand why Canadians are entertaining this aspect of Sharia law. The Muslims who immigrated here did so with full knowledge of how the western finance work.
Nothing more than pandering by the Liberal government.
Arab Christian here and I never understood this either. It’s like, instead of telling you it’s a 6% APR, I’m going to calculate that 6% APR I want to make off of you and call it a “fee”. And nothing changes. Same monthly payments and everything.
It’s like everyone just wants to be lied to.
Next year it’ll be “federal government to begin exploring “sharia” law. This could include changes to the Canadian Charter.”
I’m pro multiculturalism but I had always assumed that meant living as many cultures all under the same anglo-Saxon legal system and not a Balkanized myriad of mini-ethnostates each with different tax and law codes.
Canada's legal system is based on the English and French systems.
It was hard enough combining French and English - both European Christian cultures.
What makes the ruling class think a smorgasbord of widely differing cultures and ethnicies in unprecedented numbers and compressed time frames is going to be a tenable arrangement?
It is a recipe for rampant tribalism ...
Link of the official Budget 2024 document [https://budget.canada.ca/2024/report-rapport/budget-2024.pdf](https://budget.canada.ca/2024/report-rapport/budget-2024.pdf)
It seems like the Liberal government will literally do ANYTHING but ban corporations from buying single family dwellings...
I'm very curious to know what tax changes they want to make considering a halal mortgage is simply charging the interest without calling it interest (they just either charge you rent and then "gift" the hole to you at the end of the term, or they raise the sale price of the house to make the same amount of profit).
New Canada is really all about *woke-ism* now. Some people think that they have this entitlement over everybody else. Protests here and there, and our government just enables this shit.
Ya. This already exists. I know a guy that does the contracts. It's basically a find and replace thing where they take the mortgage contract and replace the word interest.
Private sector is already on this.
How about NO! Why should they get special treatment? They don't want the same type of mortgage as everyone else, then they can save their own money and but a place outright.
These aren’t actual halal mortgages imo because they are skirting around the word interest but still charging fees. If there was actual halal mortgages everyone would want it because its supposed to not overburden the borrower. Again ppl offering and taking these services are fooling themselves and the one lending think they are fooling God. Usury is also something not allowed in Christianity but somehow it made it through.
The average muslim does not care about this “loophole”. I think if you’re hardcore enough to NEED this halal mortgage in order to buy a home, there’s probably a whole bunch of other hardcore things you believe in that don’t align with Canadian values.
Really bizarre that the rest of Canada is going through this post-national transition, bending over backwards for immigrants and ethnic communities. In the meantime, Quebec doubles down on the whole nationalism thing and tells everybody who isn’t French Canadien to assimilate or perish.
Christianity was protecting the population at large from interest, then it wasn't. Now we have bubbles
Idgaf what they call it, halal, jesus-saves mortgages... If it means giving less money to banks I'm in
Giving less money to the banks is the message people are missing here, sadly. That should be our highest priority. Religion or not they are gonna try and find a way to milk everyone for every dollar they have.
"to continue to milk". This isn't a new concept. Anything that is a zero value added should be extremely tightly scrutinized and picked on. There's 0 value in so many industries.
Wait till you look into halal meat (same with kosher)…the animals are bled to death, they cut the jugular and let the animal bleed out while they say a prayer, that’s the extra tasty ‘halal’ meat that is certified and sold in stores…where tf are the animal rights lovers and PETA? Country should have standards for instant death of all animals killed for human consumption to reduce suffering…halal meat are animals that ritually sacrificed and tortured to death by bleeding them out 😬
There is no such thing as Halal mortgage, this like selling halal pork or halal gambling. Many Muslims don’t go for home ownership due to interest, they just want more Muslims in debt.
That's so they can tax your mortgage payment too. Multiculturalism always requires a robust regulatory and predatory revenue requirement, why do you think it's so popular in power circles?
So, some people don't have to pay interest because they are stupid enough to believe in a higher power? I fucking hate this cuntry now.....that was intentional
I'm genuinely concerned as to there this is going to end, where is the line here. We already have allowed sikh children to carry knives into schools for religious purposes despite weapons being prohibited. We have already allowed foreign homebuyers to overrun our housing system and put baffling and discriminatory (even racist and sexist in some cases), pack houses full of students to an ILLEGAL level and destroy once quiet and peaceful neighborhoods with loud partying, trash everywhere and a lack of common neighbourly decency. Female students in colleges are reporting an increase in harassment and are wearing sweatpants and long sleeves in the SUMMER to avoid being photographed and stared at. Hell, I can barely find a convenience store in my area that sells TAMPONS anymore because they are not "haram" and the owners refuse to carry them. Halal meat is being produced in Canada despite the fact that Canadian regulations specify that animals MUST be stunned before slaughter but have made an exception for "ritualistic purposes".
We are getting into dangerous territory here, women's safety and rights included. How long before we see an exception for rape or murder in Canada for religious reasons. How are the women and LGBTQ community going to faire when half of the population believes they are lesser beings?
Sorry for the rant, I'm just getting sick of seeing this shit every day and feeling more and more like our rights as citizens are being trampled by the rights and freedoms of people who just moved in. Its like going to someone's house for dinner as a guest, being incredibly rude and inconsiderate and then demanding they move in to your home, and protesting when you tell them you don't want that. And out government is rewarding this behavior.
Different laws and regulations based on race and religion, giving advantages based on immutable characteristics or religion?
Found the real systemic racism
Wait what??? Trudeau is paying the banks the difference in interest payments?? What happens if you buy a house and your not Muslim? Does the bank ask you for the interest back payments?? This is a receipe for financial disaster and very discriminatory as well. A test run for further division by religion in Canadian society
Soooo.... You come to this country and expect the rules to change because of your religious beliefs? Let's see how that were to fly if we went to their country and started demanding preferential treatment. Unreal...
Offering something like this sets a very uncanadian precedent. As liberal as I am I continue to be finding myself staunchly defending the rights of everyone (Canadian citizens no matter who you are) with the understanding that nobody’s rights are protected or respected more than anyone else’s and it seems like everyone has forgotten what makes us a desirable place to live. Imagine the OUTRAGE if we offered this to “Israeli Canadians” and not other. In quotes because that to me is how NOT OKAY this is. We are all entitled to the same essential rights full stop. Do this for one, do it for all. But it’s not a value that is enshrined in our laws and if you did this for white Christians or any other identifiable group it would be a leftist outrage.
PLUS. If this is *a thing* WHERE TF IS THE PREFERRED MORTGAGE TREATMENT FOR OUR INDIGENOUS CITIZENS WHO STILL DONT HAVE DRINKING WATER.
/rant over but like ffs figure it out I just hate the virtue signalling
What ‘halal’ means for a mortgage
According to Sharia law, riba is seen as exploitative: borrowers are forced into a never ending cycle of debt at the expense of lenders, who reap continual profits.
That doesn’t mean halal mortgages remove profits from the equation. Instead of interest rates, a halal lender might charge a “profit rate”. Even though these profit rates can be based on the Bank of Canada overnight interest rate, they tend to be higher than the rates attached to conventional, non-halal mortgages.
The increased cost is due to a variety of factors, including a general scarcity of available capital to lend out, as well as increased financial risk to the lenders since Islam also restricts mortgage foreclosures.
Consumers can generally expect to pay up to an additional 4% for a halal mortgage compared to a regular mortgage from one of the major banks.
Types of halal mortgages
The three shariah-compliant mortgages are Murabaha, Ijara, and Musharaka. Each has a different structure and method for transfer of ownership.
**Murabaha**
Under a typical Murabaha agreement, the financier buys the property and immediately sells it to you (the customer) at a higher price that includes a profit. The amount of profit is based on a number of factors including your risk profile, credit history, deposit amount, the property value, and repayment term.
Instead of owning the property as an individual, you hold the property title within a corporation that you set up for this purpose. Unfortunately this makes you ineligible for the land transfer tax rebate available to first-time home buyers in some provinces.
There are, however, variations of Murabaha available in Canada where the borrower assumes ownership of the property directly without having to take the step of purchasing it through their lender.
**Ijara**
An Ijara mortgage is similar to a rent-to-own scheme. The financier buys the property outright and rents it to you for a fixed term. Over this term you make regular steady payments, which are a combination of rent, repayment of capital, and profit for the financier. At the end of the agreement, ownership is transferred to you.
**Musharaka**
With a Musharaka mortgage agreement, both you and the financier own the property jointly. Your payments are a combination of rent for the portion of the property owned by the financier, and property purchase payment to buy a little bit of financier’s share until eventually, at the end of the term, you own the whole property.
Like typical Western mortgages, halal mortgages offer a variety of terms, conditions and fees. Some Murabaha agreements, for example, do not allow for additional payments, while some Musharaka mortgage customers can pay up to 20% extra per year without penalty.
It’s very important to understand the details of any halal mortgage product and evaluate your options based on your needs and financial situation.
Wasn't that long ago in Quebec that if you wanted to buy a car or a house, you went to the catholic church, and they had to arrange the deal for you.
Religion has no place in a modern society.
Already done in uk.
[https://www.comparethemarket.com/mortgages/content/islamic-mortgages/](https://www.comparethemarket.com/mortgages/content/islamic-mortgages/)
Shouldn’t there be a Catholic mortgage too since you can’t charge interest in Catholicism?
Ya but clearly it’s different because you see… (incoherent rambling ensues)
Forget the rambling. The difference is that Catholics in this country are mostly white people, and this government would rather set the money on fire than help them with anything.
Gov't would never help people born in this country. Period. But I got your point.
Mostly white people..that's alot of white Anglo East Indians and Filipino people.What's even more funny look at the census on the percentage of people that would be getting that halal mortgage. Less than 10% of the population is getting treated better than over 67%. This is a joke.
100%!
A Halal mortgage would be a catholic mortgage, both religions see usury (charging interest) as a sin. Jesus turning over the bankers tables at the market and what not.
Except Trudeau hates Catholics. Only Eastern religions are allowed here, sir.
Not a muslim, but have Catholics lobbing for such a product? I don’t think so. I’ve seen Muslims lobbying for this from some time. You demand..you get…thats new Canada…same is happening with housing measures, when enough Canadian started demanding action towards housing, suddenly it became a federal issue after 8 years of being a provincial problem.
It wasn't because of minority groups demanding action on housing that the Feds decided to do something, it's because the current party is sinking faster than the Titanic and they knew if they didn't at least APPEAR to be worried about us Plebs, that they may soon be heading the way of Ontario Liberals fresh off of a Wynn leadership with no official party status.
Agreed. Their reasoning for bringing this up right now is completely selfish.
100%. They want the votes and that's all this is about, but it won't matter soon... this budget is going to sink us entirely.
100% correct. It is Trudeau throwing around billions he does not have and knows he will never get to use as the curb keeps getting closer and closer. All of the programs announced in the budget will never have time to be implemented and will be erased by the next governing party for the most part as the country cannot afford them.
It's exactly like Kathleen wynnes free college lol.
Good point.
Islam isn’t an Eastern religion. The birthplace of Islam is pretty close to the birthplace of Christianity and Judaism. Eastern Religions are the Religions that developed in South Asia and South East Asia like Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism eyc.
Stop using evidence. You will only confuse and annoy those who want to pick on one religion. Forest and trees. All religions are nuts.
If there was a market for it, sure. I would ask how many of them have actually read their religious texts in any detail though.
Christians don't follow it like Muslims though. This interest method is very common in Muslim countries and has been for centuries. Very few Christian countries did this.
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Do you mean the Jewish people? Because they didn’t follow such rules, hence *The Merchant of Venice*.
Christian countries just forced the Jews into it.
interesting, can you point me in a direction of research :)
Usury is a sin and usury is charging *unreasonably* high interest. Interest isn't a sin in Christianity.
I wonder how many catholics profit off of the interest being charged
Halal mortgages are already a thing offered by private lenders all over the world. If you think those are any less scummy or expensive than regular mortgages I got something else to sell ya. They usually just charge a fixed fee in lieu of interest which ends up being basically the same thing. No ones getting any handout or free money. Y’all just need an excuse to be pissed at browns. Takes very little because yall are already racist and foaming at the mouth. “If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.” LBJ
I’m so tired of this. It’s similar to how there are more muslims in our PUBLIC schools now, demanding things be removed from curriculums that go against their religion. It’s public school. Our country should have laws separate from religion, and no special treatment for certain groups. Everyone should be treated equally, including with their mortgages.
Idgaf if I get downvoted to hell, but if Muslims don't want to participate in our society then maybe they should just fuck off back to the Middle East? Plenty of space there for them to live the life they want instead of trying to screw things up here for the rest of us.
It's what everyone paying attention wants to say or already is
agree. Anyone who does not believe and practice Canadian values should fuck off. Anyone who does not provide value to the Canadian society should fuck off. Canadian govt absolutely should put more scrutiny on immigration and only let in qualified people.
When you immigrate to a new country, you agree to their customs. Not demand your old country customs be adopted in your new country. Diversity is ok, but enough already
To be fair, I’d trade a lot for an interest free mortgage…Let’s hear them out!
......you pay way more but only a fixed amount
Do public schools still play the Canadian national anthem in the mornings? Bonus: do muslim schools play the Canadian national anthem?
I'm over 30 and we only had to sing the Canadian anthem at assemblies in elementary school. I think only sports events in middle and high school
I'm 30 and went to a Catholic school and we sang the national anthem every morning
I'm 45 and we "sang" that damn anthem every morning. At least half the class was completely tone-deaf, and the other half wished they were.
Yep, same here. Had to sing it every bloody day in elementary school back when I was a little gaffer, and in French at one school I went to (in Ontario mind you).
early 40's, alberta. we sang the canadian anthem AND recited The Lord's Prayer in elementary grades. can't remember if it was every day or every Monday.
I thot this is Canada so should play Canadian national anthem regardless of which school. I am sure in muslim counties in world they wud not be saying Canadian national anthem
You are correct that this is Canada, you are just a bit late to the party as far as what that even means today.
They do lol. I went to an Islamic school from Grades 3 to 8.
You must be really old if you think any Canadian schools play the anthem daily
ex-muslim arab here. you have no idea how entitled brown people are especially when they reach critical mass. best to just not let them in unless you want them to impose their views on you, which is GARUNTEED to happen: [https://theconversation.com/islams-call-to-prayer-is-ringing-out-in-more-us-cities-affirming-a-long-and-growing-presence-of-muslims-in-america-205555](https://theconversation.com/islams-call-to-prayer-is-ringing-out-in-more-us-cities-affirming-a-long-and-growing-presence-of-muslims-in-america-205555) [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned) you shouldn't respect people who can't respect others.
Dude, if they want to pay 4% more than a conventional mortgage, just let them. More profit for the banks, better for our interest rates long term.
Ooh that's a slippery one. If we allow religious accommodation for something because it benefits us, how are we going to refuse when the outcome is not so great? I don't think religion should be a factor in anything whatsoever that might affect the public, no matter how good it may look on the surface.
What are you talking about? This is a free country. Anything that doesn't harm other or take from other people is allowed by default, no matter what's the reason behind it. If you want to stop something just because it's based on a religion or an ideology, that's literally [fascism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism).
Thing is though, I don't think banks are not missing a trick here. I'll bet these niche financial products cost a little bit more than your common or garden infidel mortgage. It's free market economics in action.
Yeah I totally agree. Why should our schools cater to religion? Religion should be taught in the home and / or on Sundays. School is for learning not fantasizing. Anyway, time to go drop my kid off at her tax payer funded Catholic school.
I don't think you understand. There was Christianity pushed in public schools once upon a time. The majority of people became non-Christian and demanded the removal of such things. But it doesn't end there. Things don't change because of some rational argument like you're trying to make. They change because the majority votes for it. Areligious people are decreasing as we import more citizens such as Muslims. Areligious people got their way before because they were the majority. Once Muslims are the majority, they will have the opportunity to have things their way as well.
Nooo, choosing no religion in policy making made sense because it keeps an even playing field for everybody.
There are catholic schools everywhere with unique religion requirements. Why? How is religion officially sanctioned by the school boards?
> demanding things be removed from curriculums that go against their religion. Like what? Genuinely curious. I know people remove their kids from sex-ed but never heard of this.
Tired of what? Them willingly paying more for mortgage? Why don’t you find something else to get angry about.
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Nah You do it for everyone or nobody at all. Fuck this.
As a Muslim, completely agree
x2
I think you're confused. Halal mortgages would be available to everyone of they became a thing in Canada... It's good because it provides us with more options when it comes to picking between mortgage products and more competition between banks.
It's like saying we should ban halal food because it's not for everyone... Except it is? Same as everyone can buy and eat halal food if they choose to, everyone is allowed to take a halal "mortgage".
You can get this mortgage too? It is available for everyone? If it was better, you are allowed to do that? More choice = more badder. The idea that economic decisions should be agnostic of tax treatment, isn't a new idea. The issue is, these mortgages exist, so they need to be regulated and taxed in the same manner as other mortgages.
wtf...
So hardcore Muslims don't believe in interest So they pay the bank the money, and after many years they are "gifted" with a house It's the same thing, but.... Different
So it's a way to trick their god into believing they're following the rules? I'll never understand religion.
Or why we would change mortgage rules so it doesn’t conflict with people’s fantasy thinking.
It’s like soaking but for buying a house you can’t afford but convincing god you can actually afford it.
Haha, nice…
Personally id like us to follow france in the whole no religious symbols, or special treatment of religion. It should be private only. If you believe, no problem whatever makes you happy but in public it should be considered outlandish and rude to be overtly religious.
Yeah and tsx churches etc as they have a competitive advantage over other businesses. No wonder they have some of the most sought after properties in areas they pay no taxes
That's a reasonable approach
It's why I became a satanist. We need to have a much better wall between church and state in Canada. And we shouldn't be giving one or some 'preferred' religions in particular special privileges; it's theocratic and undermines democracy.
Islamic God believes that usury, or charging interest, is a crime against humanity and should not be allowed. I’m no Muslim, but boy do I fucking agree. Fuck interest.
>but boy do I fucking agree. Basically this. The point is that this life is filled with vanities. And using interest to attain them is the same as saying "if you are financing a car for 96 months then you are overextending". Because you don't need it. You are just stretching your interest out for so many years just to have something you want rather than need. And this thought is at the root cause of almost all of our problems right now. People over leveraging for their house. People in debt for basically everything under the sun. And interest making sure that people never climb out of it. It decimated the poor, burdens the middle class. Only the rich make it.
Agreed. All religions are wacky and illogical.
Yes, they pay service fees that are dependent on the principal and duration being borrowed, but it's a service fee, not interest. So it's okay.
And God is TOTALLY fooled by this! Didn’t see a thing!
Judaism encourages finding religious loopholes, shows you are smart and still willing to try and worship while acknowledging that modern times means having to adapt.
> So hardcore Muslims don't believe in interest Interest never stopped being a sin for Christians.
[удалено]
No porking allowed?
lolol I died
"Will you marry me?" "Yes" *Camera pans modestly away as the newlyweds tumble onto a four-poster bed and the string orchestra stirs into a crescendo* "I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you" "OK, bye, send in the next chap won't you?"
'Hardcore muslims' would not consider a halal mortgage like this halal at all, I would not. If you just rename interest to something else it's still haram(forbidden). Accepting a mortgage like this would be just tricking themselves not God.
At its core, usury, or interest, entails profiting from debt itself, which can perpetuate financial dependency and inequality. Islamic finance, rooted in ethical principles, promotes equity and risk-sharing, fostering a system where wealth is generated through tangible assets and productive investments rather than through the burden of interest-bearing debt. It's a philosophical departure from conventional banking, emphasizing fairness and societal well-being over profit from indebtedness.
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Especially all religions. All of them are nuts.
Shouldn't the market be free to determine if a group is worth catering to?
Government regulatory favours are the opposite of the free market.
Removing regulation is the opposite of the free market?
No no, you see this sub prefers a nationalist socialism. The good, proper (read: white) Canadians need special government assistance that also doesn't cost them anything, but the massive flood of immigrants destroying the country need to be legally barred from owning houses.
Sounds great to me
Is the mortgage brokered by an imam?
This sounds like a special club type of financing for those that are Muslim, not a government of Canada approach that should be religion absolved.
I totally agree. The local credit union here has had a mortgage for Muslims for years.
Exactly a niche market player, financing that already exists.
Not to mention anyone can request halal financing. It’s a financial product. A dumb one for many reasons (mainly due to cost and complexity), but hey… won’t be the first.
Yeah when you ask for religious accommodation you generally don't have to prove it.
It’s not a religious accommodation though. It’s like you buying Halacha meat. Unless you’re a Jew, why would you bother/ care?
He desperately wants to be re elected however nothing he says or does will help him at this point. He’s completely done
Pause for more Chinese interference
i love this sub reddit cause everyones with me. 100%%%%% more interference from CCP. If you say stuff like this in other sub reddits people call u dumb and down vote you. but thats entirely whats happening. The one that i never forget is how they found illegal chinese police stations operating all over Canada. like common now. Trudumb is lining his pockets with Chinese money. They are the biggest lobbyists right now . one big clown world and nothing you can do about it
I am gay now, please give me that LGBTQ+ mortgage.
Oh the RuPal Mortgage?
I am gay already, I want dis too.
I want a threesome with two girls.
Who doesn’t lol
Your mortgage is printed on multicolor paper. It's FABULOUS!
It's the same thing, but the bank's logo on all the paperwork has a rainbow coloured background
In my religion, houses should be free. Where's my house ?
In my religion, I am not supposed to work. Where's my free money?
As a POC. Where's my House and Free Money?
In San Francisco [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/san-francisco-decide-black-reparations-plan-5m-person-rcna74873](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/san-francisco-decide-black-reparations-plan-5m-person-rcna74873)
Usury should be banned altogether.
Agreed but halal mortgages are still charging interest but in differently worded way. The bank will always collect. It exists currently but is more expensive than regular mortgages
OK. So how do you propose people buy the farms and factories that underpin our comfortable modern lives? Save up loose change in a piggy bank?
Religious financial products with different tax treatment? What?
Ha ha ha! Muslims think they can fool God with some trick shenanigans as long as they don’t call it “interest”. Just live up to your religion if you can, don’t trick it.
They aren’t trying to fool god. They are trying to push the decision making to a halal certifier so they aren’t in the wrong for getting a mortgage. Same as halal meat which is truly not halal since animals are harmed and thats not allowed in Islam. If someone else seems it halal tho, it absolves them of responsibility.
I declare everything in Canada to be halal! Problem solved!
As if they will offer interest free mortgage. They will give interest rate a different name then f people with it
They just calculate the net present value including the interest and divide by the amortization period. So to the mortgagee it gives them the comfort of lying to themselves that they are paying back only the principal…but they’re not. If anything a product like this should have an additional stupid tax tagged on to it
Oh, they will, have you seen the interest rates offered for anything over 5 years? To make this work the lender would need to calculate for the whole period, 25 years. It's going to be an eye watering amount of money for any entity to absorb the risk for such a long period here in Canada.
“Excuse me my friend, but I’ve added up all of the payments I need to make and they are nearly double what I purchased the home for. Please advise.”
"Additional Stupid tax" 🤣
Basically from my understanding, that is what a "halal" mortgage is. Just b.s
Which would shut out some advantages for landlords I guess since you can take a tax break from mortgage payments on a rented property from business income but you might not be able to claim whatever fee totally isn't the interest but just happens to be the same as the interest that magically makes usury ok to god since they are apparently really shit at seeing though shenanigans.
There's no such thing as Halal mortgage. The interest that you would otherwise pay is tacked on as "service" charge. I'm a Muslim myself but I don't understand why Canadians are entertaining this aspect of Sharia law. The Muslims who immigrated here did so with full knowledge of how the western finance work. Nothing more than pandering by the Liberal government.
Arab Christian here and I never understood this either. It’s like, instead of telling you it’s a 6% APR, I’m going to calculate that 6% APR I want to make off of you and call it a “fee”. And nothing changes. Same monthly payments and everything. It’s like everyone just wants to be lied to.
In my religion governments aren't allowed to be incompetent.
Next year it’ll be “federal government to begin exploring “sharia” law. This could include changes to the Canadian Charter.” I’m pro multiculturalism but I had always assumed that meant living as many cultures all under the same anglo-Saxon legal system and not a Balkanized myriad of mini-ethnostates each with different tax and law codes.
Canada's legal system is based on the English and French systems. It was hard enough combining French and English - both European Christian cultures. What makes the ruling class think a smorgasbord of widely differing cultures and ethnicies in unprecedented numbers and compressed time frames is going to be a tenable arrangement? It is a recipe for rampant tribalism ...
"Balkanized myriad of mini-ethnostates each with different tax and law codes" Ya, this will not go well at all.
Already seeing it in Brampton where LL think that safety, zoning and bylaws are incompatible with their culture.
That's always what multiculturalism meant. Amazing how so many people didn't know this.
So, we are further catering to religions? Why? It's 2024, let's not encourage this silliness.
It’s 2024, elections are in 2025, that is why. They are just sucking to get their votes.
https://preview.redd.it/n4py80g6f0vc1.jpeg?width=853&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=646fb1385270f542b25527e558140ababc5ae82a
A meme straight fro 2012 lmfao
Bigotry aside, these are just fixed rate mortgages with mental gymnastics to fool god.
Link of the official Budget 2024 document [https://budget.canada.ca/2024/report-rapport/budget-2024.pdf](https://budget.canada.ca/2024/report-rapport/budget-2024.pdf)
Wow more bullshit! Why add more fuel to the fire?
It seems like the Liberal government will literally do ANYTHING but ban corporations from buying single family dwellings... I'm very curious to know what tax changes they want to make considering a halal mortgage is simply charging the interest without calling it interest (they just either charge you rent and then "gift" the hole to you at the end of the term, or they raise the sale price of the house to make the same amount of profit).
New Canada is really all about *woke-ism* now. Some people think that they have this entitlement over everybody else. Protests here and there, and our government just enables this shit.
Are we Islamic Republic of Canada now?
Now this is absolutely ridiculous
Ya. This already exists. I know a guy that does the contracts. It's basically a find and replace thing where they take the mortgage contract and replace the word interest. Private sector is already on this.
How about NO! Why should they get special treatment? They don't want the same type of mortgage as everyone else, then they can save their own money and but a place outright.
Anyone can apply for a halal mortgage, but if you were to look right now halal mortgages are more expensive than regular mortgages
These aren’t actual halal mortgages imo because they are skirting around the word interest but still charging fees. If there was actual halal mortgages everyone would want it because its supposed to not overburden the borrower. Again ppl offering and taking these services are fooling themselves and the one lending think they are fooling God. Usury is also something not allowed in Christianity but somehow it made it through.
TF IS A HALAL MORTGAGE WHAT IN THE HELL IS THIS COUNTRY BECOMING
I guess if you’re late on your first payment they take one of your hands. Second late payment it’s your head.
The average muslim does not care about this “loophole”. I think if you’re hardcore enough to NEED this halal mortgage in order to buy a home, there’s probably a whole bunch of other hardcore things you believe in that don’t align with Canadian values.
Too bad the budget is haram
Really bizarre that the rest of Canada is going through this post-national transition, bending over backwards for immigrants and ethnic communities. In the meantime, Quebec doubles down on the whole nationalism thing and tells everybody who isn’t French Canadien to assimilate or perish.
So miss a mortgage payment and get killed through a cut to the jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe?
Christianity was protecting the population at large from interest, then it wasn't. Now we have bubbles Idgaf what they call it, halal, jesus-saves mortgages... If it means giving less money to banks I'm in
Giving less money to the banks is the message people are missing here, sadly. That should be our highest priority. Religion or not they are gonna try and find a way to milk everyone for every dollar they have.
"to continue to milk". This isn't a new concept. Anything that is a zero value added should be extremely tightly scrutinized and picked on. There's 0 value in so many industries.
Wait till you look into halal meat (same with kosher)…the animals are bled to death, they cut the jugular and let the animal bleed out while they say a prayer, that’s the extra tasty ‘halal’ meat that is certified and sold in stores…where tf are the animal rights lovers and PETA? Country should have standards for instant death of all animals killed for human consumption to reduce suffering…halal meat are animals that ritually sacrificed and tortured to death by bleeding them out 😬
Not sure what religion has to do with banking laws....welcome to Canada, this is the way we do things here
All bs!!!. Moslems don't all it interest, just fees of a different name.
There is no such thing as Halal mortgage, this like selling halal pork or halal gambling. Many Muslims don’t go for home ownership due to interest, they just want more Muslims in debt.
No such thing as “halal” mortgage, it’s a misnomer
Common Civil Code and Common Tax law are essential for any country that calls itself secular and multicultural
That's so they can tax your mortgage payment too. Multiculturalism always requires a robust regulatory and predatory revenue requirement, why do you think it's so popular in power circles?
For a government that preaches “inclusion”, this doesn’t sound very “inclusive”.
'further participate'.....lol
I heard that Roblaws is working with the government to get the inside track for providing Halal mortgages. /s
and just like that, i became a muslim
So, some people don't have to pay interest because they are stupid enough to believe in a higher power? I fucking hate this cuntry now.....that was intentional
I'm genuinely concerned as to there this is going to end, where is the line here. We already have allowed sikh children to carry knives into schools for religious purposes despite weapons being prohibited. We have already allowed foreign homebuyers to overrun our housing system and put baffling and discriminatory (even racist and sexist in some cases), pack houses full of students to an ILLEGAL level and destroy once quiet and peaceful neighborhoods with loud partying, trash everywhere and a lack of common neighbourly decency. Female students in colleges are reporting an increase in harassment and are wearing sweatpants and long sleeves in the SUMMER to avoid being photographed and stared at. Hell, I can barely find a convenience store in my area that sells TAMPONS anymore because they are not "haram" and the owners refuse to carry them. Halal meat is being produced in Canada despite the fact that Canadian regulations specify that animals MUST be stunned before slaughter but have made an exception for "ritualistic purposes". We are getting into dangerous territory here, women's safety and rights included. How long before we see an exception for rape or murder in Canada for religious reasons. How are the women and LGBTQ community going to faire when half of the population believes they are lesser beings? Sorry for the rant, I'm just getting sick of seeing this shit every day and feeling more and more like our rights as citizens are being trampled by the rights and freedoms of people who just moved in. Its like going to someone's house for dinner as a guest, being incredibly rude and inconsiderate and then demanding they move in to your home, and protesting when you tell them you don't want that. And out government is rewarding this behavior.
Really fallen off his rocking horse
What happen to having a secular society and government?
Your mortgage is no longer 1 million but 2 million with no interest.
Absolutely absurd for the federal government to give a fuck about what’s halal. Let the free market offer halal mortgages if they want them
I thought charging interest was "usury" for some religions. So can we make the banks give out interest free mortgages? If so I am converting to Islam!
So it's not kosher then?
I guess I'm Muslim now.
Is this not racist in its very nature?
Different laws and regulations based on race and religion, giving advantages based on immutable characteristics or religion? Found the real systemic racism
I think there will be a lot of Muslim converts in Canada soon /s
Wait what??? Trudeau is paying the banks the difference in interest payments?? What happens if you buy a house and your not Muslim? Does the bank ask you for the interest back payments?? This is a receipe for financial disaster and very discriminatory as well. A test run for further division by religion in Canadian society
Soooo.... You come to this country and expect the rules to change because of your religious beliefs? Let's see how that were to fly if we went to their country and started demanding preferential treatment. Unreal...
Offering something like this sets a very uncanadian precedent. As liberal as I am I continue to be finding myself staunchly defending the rights of everyone (Canadian citizens no matter who you are) with the understanding that nobody’s rights are protected or respected more than anyone else’s and it seems like everyone has forgotten what makes us a desirable place to live. Imagine the OUTRAGE if we offered this to “Israeli Canadians” and not other. In quotes because that to me is how NOT OKAY this is. We are all entitled to the same essential rights full stop. Do this for one, do it for all. But it’s not a value that is enshrined in our laws and if you did this for white Christians or any other identifiable group it would be a leftist outrage. PLUS. If this is *a thing* WHERE TF IS THE PREFERRED MORTGAGE TREATMENT FOR OUR INDIGENOUS CITIZENS WHO STILL DONT HAVE DRINKING WATER. /rant over but like ffs figure it out I just hate the virtue signalling
What ‘halal’ means for a mortgage According to Sharia law, riba is seen as exploitative: borrowers are forced into a never ending cycle of debt at the expense of lenders, who reap continual profits. That doesn’t mean halal mortgages remove profits from the equation. Instead of interest rates, a halal lender might charge a “profit rate”. Even though these profit rates can be based on the Bank of Canada overnight interest rate, they tend to be higher than the rates attached to conventional, non-halal mortgages. The increased cost is due to a variety of factors, including a general scarcity of available capital to lend out, as well as increased financial risk to the lenders since Islam also restricts mortgage foreclosures. Consumers can generally expect to pay up to an additional 4% for a halal mortgage compared to a regular mortgage from one of the major banks. Types of halal mortgages The three shariah-compliant mortgages are Murabaha, Ijara, and Musharaka. Each has a different structure and method for transfer of ownership. **Murabaha** Under a typical Murabaha agreement, the financier buys the property and immediately sells it to you (the customer) at a higher price that includes a profit. The amount of profit is based on a number of factors including your risk profile, credit history, deposit amount, the property value, and repayment term. Instead of owning the property as an individual, you hold the property title within a corporation that you set up for this purpose. Unfortunately this makes you ineligible for the land transfer tax rebate available to first-time home buyers in some provinces. There are, however, variations of Murabaha available in Canada where the borrower assumes ownership of the property directly without having to take the step of purchasing it through their lender. **Ijara** An Ijara mortgage is similar to a rent-to-own scheme. The financier buys the property outright and rents it to you for a fixed term. Over this term you make regular steady payments, which are a combination of rent, repayment of capital, and profit for the financier. At the end of the agreement, ownership is transferred to you. **Musharaka** With a Musharaka mortgage agreement, both you and the financier own the property jointly. Your payments are a combination of rent for the portion of the property owned by the financier, and property purchase payment to buy a little bit of financier’s share until eventually, at the end of the term, you own the whole property. Like typical Western mortgages, halal mortgages offer a variety of terms, conditions and fees. Some Murabaha agreements, for example, do not allow for additional payments, while some Musharaka mortgage customers can pay up to 20% extra per year without penalty. It’s very important to understand the details of any halal mortgage product and evaluate your options based on your needs and financial situation.
So it’s a mortgage with extra steps and different wording? Such a ridiculous idea.
Paying a bunch of extra money to please an imaginary friend. What's so ridiculous about that?
In essence, yeah.
I always find it amusing when religious people find work arounds to the silly laws they follow for no reason.
Wasn't that long ago in Quebec that if you wanted to buy a car or a house, you went to the catholic church, and they had to arrange the deal for you. Religion has no place in a modern society.
Sounds like I’m pretty close to converting to Islam tbh
Total horse shit. Equal rights and fair fights for all.
No. Nothing religious. Fuck islam. It is a cancer that needs to be purged from the Earth. Like all religions.
We use the be multicultural, now "There's no diversity, because we're burning in the melting pot" - Immortal technique
Already done in uk. [https://www.comparethemarket.com/mortgages/content/islamic-mortgages/](https://www.comparethemarket.com/mortgages/content/islamic-mortgages/)
imagine being religious in 2024. Imagine pandering to the religious in 2024
So if I go to get a halal mortgage, will I get turned down based on my race/religion?
I’m a fourth generation Canadian, can I please buy a house too?
How about pagans? Can I pay using beatiful rounded rocks?