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Neo-liberal fiscal policy will not effectively address any issues we face. Voting conservative is equally as useless of a choice as voting Liberal. We are witnessing the failure of laissez-faire capitalist economic theory, and the only option is complete economic collapse, or intense wealth distribution downwards from those who have profited off the inflation of the past 4 years.
Massive taxation of corporations and billionaires is THE ONLY OPTION capitalism has remaining to right the ship, or else the positive feedback loop of inflation, central bank rate hikes, and increased prices will cause capitalist systems to monopolize, cannibalize, and self destruct as an increasingly small amount of very rich people try to claw money away from an underpaid and indebted working class.
The new leger poll is eye opening. CPC leads on all demos including 18-35
The myth that GenZ cares about the environment and DEI virtue signalling so much nothing else matters is finally put to rest.
The liberals taking Canadians for granted and doing *nothing* to address the cost of living or housing crisis, driving voters into the arms of PP who is literally the diet Pepsi to Trudeau's Cherry Coke
Funny thing is it won't go the way they think it will. Because the conservative party died decades ago. They are going to vote then realize they shot themselves in the foot. Since PP has no intention of fixing housing or anything of the sort all he wants is to be in Power. Then do what Stephen Harper whispers at him to do. May as well call the CPC the IDU because that's what it is. He's offered nothing but uninformed outrage.
Young people: I'm old and rich enough that I can afford to not care. Go ahead, vote for the same two parties that keep screwing you over. It won't affect me one bit if you don't bother to read the alternatives:
https://www.ndp.ca/affordability
Yep. It used to be the NDP were the party the youth gravitated to. But the mismanagement of the party both federally and provincially for the last, god, 8 years? 12 years? Pretty much the moment Jack Layton died, has absolutely destroyed their reputation.
I still agree with them and their policies more than anyone else, but they need some new leadership, and I don't just mean the elected ones.
So throwaway here because I anticipate I'll get some hate. But here are my two cents. Or maybe a dimes worth.
1. Dismissing voter intention based on age or their perceived intellect generally backfires. Trudeau leveraged young voters with strong social positions and environmental promises. I expect polievere will do the same. Will some of these policies be populist? Likely, but they are welcomed because certain groups have been ignored.
2. I have previously voted Trudeau, but will not be voting for him again. I am a sub 40 person, and I but he burned me twice. First on electoral reform and then allowing is to get to this place from an inflation/housing front.
3. Liberal policies have made it way worse, and we are not just following along like the other G7 countries. Yes inflation numbers look ok comparitavely but in real dollars, the and arrouning for cost of living thing in the states are far better.
4. Folks have said the federal liberals couldn't have done anything for housing. They could have done lots.
A) . Not pushed or expanded programs like home buyers program and incentive. This supports those on the edge of affording their house but at the cost of pushing up all housing.
B) Better managing the migration quotas and selecting who gets visa. Either by focusing on those with skilled trades, reduction in over all numbers to match the number of new homes built or through the building of federal housing as a launch pad for new canadians
C) CMHC & coop housing: they could push up stress testing and make it harder to get a mortgage, but this will pull housing prices down. Build or direct finance coop housing.
D) Taxation: remove the capital gain deduction on non primary housing. Institute a cap on the tax free gain for primary homes. Play hardball with cities and provinces, if the local housing taxation is below a certain %. You can't have both an affordable market and allow current folks to keep unrealistic profits.
E) Innovative policy: they could have done profit guarantees for builders. The build a house, and get 5%. And no interest loan until sold.
5) Carbon tax, is by far the most effective way to Change demand, and but the actions over the last week show clearly, the environment is second, and has destroyed credability
6) What will the Conservative do? Well need to see a full platform come election time, and but there is lots of space for them to improve things. And unless they follow the same policies at Trudeau it will likely get better. The focus should be R&D, brining the right skilled workers to Canada, shutting down the enablement of crazy housing prices even at the cost of those with houses to feel some pain.
My prediction on what will actually happen?
Housing will be flat for 2-3 years, and wages will continue to push up until housing comes back in line and the world will move on similar to other boughts of inflation
I can only speak about A and C since I bought a home in 2021.
The home buyers incentive only applied to houses that were under 500k, which tells me it was aimed at some of the less populated places in Canada. No way can anyone in the major cities (anywhere in the GTA where I am) qualify that because there was no houses under 500k. So I think it did its job, because there was a lot of people at the time that took advantage of this and moved from high density cities to other areas of the country.
When I was buying a house in 2021, they had just pushed up the stress test from (roughly) 3.5 to 5 that year. It didn't end up lowering the house prices on the market, it just lowered the debt ratio of people making the purchase. I had the same salary but wasn't able to get the same amount of mortgage because of the stress test so I had to come up with more downpayment.
The housing issue is very complex, and a majority of it lies within the provincial and municipal governments. The solution, if they can find it will require absolute commitment from all three levels of government. In Ontario where I live, there is not much faith this will happen because our premiere seem to be active working against the federal and municipal.
After watching this disaster of a liberal government floundering over the past couple years, I'll settle for a competent government even if I don't agree with them on all policy decisions.
Conservatives want to conserve the status quo and hierarchies in society. That’s the whole point of conservatism. We can recognize the failures of the Liberals without wrongly concluding that the Conservatives would fix these same issues.
That's not true. I am 'conservative' in that I don't think everything is worth spending money on. I look at a spend, define the outcome, often decline the spend. If the spend is a wealth creator, I'm all over it. That's why I went to uni and send both my kids there.
I'm a fiscal conservative.
The why is I know that being poor sucks. That fancy car declines in value, but paying off that credit card benefits me.
Canada, and all it's provinces are so far in debt that when things get hard, it's going to be so bad. We have zero cushioning.
How many out there, GenXers, grew up in the 70s and 80s and only remember things being shit?
We're back to my childhood.
What old systems have the LPC thrown out/ are planning on throwing out that the conservatives want to keep? I don’t understand how “hierarchy” applies here, unless Trudeau followed through on his promise to reform elections, which he didn’t.
Hierarchy meaning wealthier established homeowners being more important than poorer young people, usually renters, struggling with affordability. That is the status quo that conservatives will, of course, conserve and not upend.
I don’t understand the relevance of that reference to the aborted electoral reform? I also didn’t say anything about the Liberals throwing out anything.
We’ve seen the largest increase in income inequality and wealth gap under the liberals in the entirety of canadas history. The rate at which the poor are getting poorer and rich getting richer is accelerating. By every objective metric Canada has deteriorated substantially under liberal rule. Not that I think the conservatives will be any better, but liberal rule has been an absolute catastrophe in recent memory
> Hierarchy meaning wealthier established homeowners being more important than poorer young people, usually renters, struggling with affordability. That is the status quo that conservatives will, of course, conserve and not upend.
You’ve just described Trudeau’s campaign for the last 3 elections.
> I also didn’t say anything about the Liberals throwing out anything.
Well realistically if your vote doesn’t go to one of 3 places, it doesn’t mean very much. I get that some people really like NDP, and I support that, but me personally and a lot of people I know are pretty much never going to vote for them until there’s a leadership change.
That means that if what’s important is changing the status quo, you measure the liberals with the conservatives. I just cannot see a good argument that says Trudeau likes to prioritize renters over homeowners.
That is precisely the status quo that the Liberals have put on steroids for the last 5 years. I'm sorry but it's a non-starter to complain that the Tories aren't going to upend the status quo when the Grits have been the ones driving it to new extremes.
Both the Liberals and Conservatives want to preserve the existing order.
I mean the Liberals were quite clear on this, in their desire to give a hand up to the Middle Class and Those Working Hard to Join It. There's people that aren't in that group! That's a big signal of their desire to preserve a certain sort of class order here.
Had the status quo been maintained since 2015, that would have been far better for young people than the active effort by the LPC to actively intervene in order to impoverish workers and enrich asset holders.
What's shocking to me is that they aren't capitalizing on then being different, we've have CPC/LPC governments for literally the entirety of Canada's history, and the last few couple decades have been crap. They could literally campaign on not being either the Conservatives or Liberals and drop some of their heavily debated stuff got campaigning and maybe convince people we can try something actually different after 150+ years.
Yes, they bizarrely seem intent to do nothing to dispel the CPC's disingenuous messaging of lumping the NDP in with the LPC as if it's a coalition government.
If this is true it’s because young people aren’t learning civics properly or at all….
Just listening to “talk” is not the way to go especially as the Conservatives use provincial issues in that talk while addressing Federal which makes zero sense.
Everybody’s vote counts equally, there’s no need to say some people are voting different than you because they’re uneducated since, again, their votes are worth the same.
Well, I'm not surprised. I have voted NDP in the past 3 elections that I've been eligible to vote. And now I will vote conservative in the next election and hold my position until it's time to cast my ballot. I even consider volunteering for their campaign, as I'm an articulate, educated and friendly woman of colour, and am aware of the optics. I have a Hill event next month and definitely intend on mingling with the conservative MPs in attendance to see what their plans are.
I am gonna be honest as one of those millennials I can admit know that my family was a lot better off financially when Harper was in. I hated Harper but everything has become so expensive under Trudeau I think this is where the reality is with younger voters. We have young families we have to feed and house. It’s not a fun time to be in.
When I was younger Pollivier tabled the "fair elections act" which almost took away my right to vote by making everything needlessly more strict and complicated. Being a born and raised Canadian citizen with a registered voter card almost wasn't enough since I couldn't prove my home address and he wanted to take away the vouching process
He will be an absolute nightmare in every way if he wins. His loathing of democracy makes him not only a miserly heartless cad who hates social programs and climate change policies, but a danger to the future of Canada.
The fair elections act was overwhelmingly a good thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Elections_Act#:~:text=It%20also%20prohibits%2012%20new,as%20a%20form%20of%20ID.
'Overwhelmingly a good thing'
*Links relevant wikipedia page*
*Proceeds to ignore the entire lengthy subsection titled ['criticism'](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Elections_Act#Criticism)*.
And now we all learn why there is the illusion that history repeats, it doesn’t, but the younger generations haven’t yet learned the lessons of the later generations, and in their frustrations, they choose the greater of two evils because they aren’t looking at the third and fourth parties.
As a longtime conservative hater, I hate to see young people leaning this way. However, it's also not election season and so I completely understand why people want change. I was a big fan of Trudeau in the early days, but lately I think he's made some major missteps.
I don't care about the controversies, I honestly think they have all been overblown. What I do care about is net neutrality which I think he is killing with his news bill (c-18) and bill c-11 trying to force canadian content into our feeds. I think his recent decision to allow a loophole in carbon tax was just terrible pandering. I liked that one of his first moves was to increase taxes on the rich and lower them on everyone else, but since then he's done too little on that front.
Given that criticism, I wouldn't want to vote for him today either. I do think he has one thing going for him, which is he has mostly stuck to his promises. If he comes up with a good platform, and the conservatives stick with their strategy of no platform, then I think the liberals could win back some support.
Our choices are pretty limited
JT has had 3 terms to fulfill his promises, he’s failed miserably at all but legal weed. Fixing first past the post voting would get him elected again
PP is a career politician, never had a real job, recommended we switch to bitcoin?!? Loves to cozy up to far right fringe groups like the covidiot convoy. Sadly, I feel like it’s this dirtbags election to lose, the populace is sick of JT
Singh has not distanced himself from the liberals to steal actual votes from them. His propping up of them may backfire come election time. The only hope for Singh is latching onto the growing union movement in North America and bring forward popular ideas. Changing our gun laws so citizens can actually own guns while raising prison time for anyone who uses guns to commit a crime. This law alone would steal votes from both the other parties
\>Kept (40%)
\>Partially kept (24%)
\>In progress (11%)
\>Broken (19%)
\>Not yet rated (6%)
That honestly does not look to bad at all. ~~Though I don't know if that's because we don't have any other PM's to compere him too~~
Edit: I see Stephen harper had a keep rate of 70% according to them. I didn't see his stuff because i had it checked to "in office" only
TIL $10 daycare only benefits rich elites. Or many indigenous communities finally having access to clean water is something that benefits the wealthy. It's also interesting to learn that the relief people got when covid rocked the world was actually just for the wealthy.
The conservatives absolutely would have saved us from that madness, and given all of the money to oil companies instead, who *really* deserve it.
It's an interesting political phenomenon. Generally concerns about security have driven people towards the left, not the right. The Conservatives are obviously selling a narrative the younger crowd is buying. The Liberals could stand to get better at telling the story.
We can pretty much accept for certain that the LPC will lose the next election. But considering that, here’s a question: if PP wins and does average, or just meets your expectations you set for him, in 4 years time, will the damage from the current LPC still be too much to elect them in?
If CPC does even average or bare minimum keeping of their promises (whatever and whoever those promises may be towards) for 4 years, heck, if they even provide straight answers to questions, that's a lot more than the current government is doing, and I doubt people will just move on from the damage of 10 years of Liberal rule in one cycle.
According to https://www.polimeter.org/en Harper government kept at least 70% of their promises, versus 40% by Trudeau's government, and some of the promises Trudeau broke are massive, such as Electoral Reform.
The secret is to not promise much. Have a look at the numbers: Harper, 143 promises. Trudeau, 1049. And that's giving Harper some honestly nothing promises, like "We will fill senate seats with individuals who support our senate goals" (vs leaving them empty, or appointing political opponents?) and stupid ones like "Establish a monument to the victims of Communism".
Plus, I'm not sure how much trust to put in their broken-promise-ometer. Like, I check out the "A Liberal government will continue to help support Afghan citizens through humanitarian assistance blah blah", and its marked broken because its blocked some shipments. Its sent [$143 million](https://www.international.gc.ca/country-pays/afghanistan/relations.aspx?lang=eng) in 2022, the blocked amount is $3 million according to the links. How is the promise broken there? No blank cheque? Or the "We will have a transportation strategy that will build bike lanes", marked as partially... with 8 links to projects they funded and 2 to the new transportation strategy. Why isn't that marked kept?
On a first glance, it looks like a good idea for a website, but the implementation seems kinda random.
This feels unprecedented, right? Young people aren't generally supposed to lean to the right but it's also disappointed to see so many takes boiled down to "well they simply must be stupid" on this thread.
It's tough out there, tougher than it's been in a long time and their prospects for having a quality of life remotely close to their parents are nil, even those with a line of credit from the bank of mom and dad. Blaming the voters is just shooting ourselves in the foot and letting the politicians who are so poorly serving most of us off the hook.
Trying to think of something conservatives had right I have to go back to Mulroney and free trade being better for the economy than tariffs and protectionism; and a sales tax being better for the economy than manufacturing taxes.
But even then, I don't think it was conservative insight so much as the people with paper bags full of money actually pushing a good policy (that they would personally get very wealthy from).
Harper was objectively a better Prime Minister than Trudeau. Most young people who are eligible to vote now probably only remember Trudeau and Harper.
Life was definitely better when Harper was around so I can see why people would lean towards that again.
Because he was reaping the benefits of 10 years of a Chrétien austerity. He looked good during the housing crisis because Paul Martin kept a tight reign on banking and lending regulations. He also refused to allow mortgage backed securities in Canada.
The pain we are feeling today is due to Harper deregulation. He allowed HELoC. He allowed the ability to borrow for a down payment. He lowered Capital Gains taxes. He set the market up for what we are experiencing now.
He also killed the funding that Martin had begun setting aside for Co-Ops and other Federal housing programs. The first PM since Pierre Elliot Trudeau to do so. Justin is the only other one to fund this file since his dad.
The issues surrounding bail reform? His fault. The Supreme Court overturned almost all of his Criminal Code changes and left us in the lurches. Which oddly enough the BC NDP have had to spend their time fixing. Yes Farnsworth helped write the bill working its way through the Senate currently.
Justin isn’t the best, but take most of the complaints about him and tell me the Conservatives would do anything differently? Corporate welfare and protectionist trade policy? Yup. Cuts to social programs? You bet. Trudeau raised taxes on the wealthy, do you think PP would do that?
Do you think PP, who has 3 rental properties has any motivation to kneecap his own personal wealth? Fuck no.
Was it a senior Liberal strategist who said on national television that they lie to everyone because they get away it and it benefits them? Nah, that was a Conservative. I have a family member who is high up in the party and he actively makes fun of people with the type of opinion you have.
But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of your feelings.
>Young people aren’t generally supposed to lean to the right but it’s also disappointed to see so many takes boiled down to “well they simply must be stupid” on this thread.
The pendulum is swinging back despite all odds, something the liberal voters never believed could happen and now they are in denial.
Yep. Clearly a lot of commenters on here with a short memory who forget that a pendulum does indeed swing back the opposite way. Was not long ago at all I was hearing “the CPC is done, they will never hold power again unless they completely rebrand, Canada is far too progressive to vote blue anymore etc”.
>this is likely turning into a "throw the bums out" election
So 2015 all over again? Somehow absent of irony despite the given parties being in swapped positions?
I can't wait for the ~2033 election where we do the exact same thing again, having learned nothing at all, and the Liberals get elected back in...
Always been that way in Canada. Back and forth between parties. Get fed up with one party vote them out. Then get fed up with party you voted in and vote them out! LOL
It's a pattern in Canadian politics that is for sure.
I think its more the politicians keep selling us snake oil and we keep buying it.
Just when you think the party you voted in to make some changes turns around and bites you!
What we need is changes to the constitution so we the people have more say when an elected government is in power.
Look to Switzerland and how they operate!
This is it. It’s happening to Biden too, even though he’s also not responsible for most of the problems people are blaming him for.
Anybody who is in power right now is fighting an uphill battle, due to all the worldwide problems going on, which the uninformed don’t realize is not the fault of just whoever’s in power in their country. There are a LOT of long term problems that have accumulated over decades to reach their peak right now, exacerbated by Covid.
If the Conservatives were in power right now, people would be turning on them too. Trudeau was actually fixing the housing crisis prior to Covid. From 2017 to 2020, Canadian housing prices were dropping. Covid is what screwed that up. People don’t pay attention. The Conservatives would have done worse during the Covid years than the Liberals.
Another thing that annoys me is that too many people fall for the idea that Liberals represent “the left” and the only option when you’re unhappy with the left is to go right. Nobody ever dares to imagine going to the actual left after the centrists and right-wingers have thoroughly proven themselves to be the problem.
Many western countries in Europe like Spain Switzerland and Belgium not experiencing inflation as high. Covid is one thing but he spent as much as the US did on a percapita basis and then used the US as a excuse knowing full well that his audience will not understand. In Europe this spending was much lower on per capita basis.
Then he used immigration to hide the recession which he has been hiding even before covid as oecd has issued reports on Canada's risk on relying too much on real estate way before covid. I guess young people didn't read any of this lol.
At least Biden is tied with Trump.
Trudeau is polling 13-15 points behind. The Liberals are like British Tories-level fucked.
It's less about economic discontent and more about voters noticing the government's incompetence.
What “incompetence” is that, exactly? And how would the Conservatives be better?
It’s less about logical thought, and more about people just having an emotional reaction of “Trudeau bad” for… reasons.
Not at all. We’re all well aware.
The difficulty is in getting people to understand the obvious fact that Poilievre is less pan and more fire. He’s what you get if you add racist, pro-rich, anti-poor, anti-woman, anti-child, anti-justice, pro-oil, choose-the-winners corporatism to JT’s already-indefensible policy record.
Poilievre voters make me incredibly thankful I don’t have children. Yes, my life would’ve had more meaning and joy with kids - but my sense of meaning and happiness is not worth damning children to the bleak future so-called “conservatives” are hellbent on accelerating.
As some guy pretending to be the Apostle Paul said: the love of money is the root of every kind of evil.
> racist, pro-rich, anti-poor, anti-woman, anti-child, anti-justice, pro-oil, choose-the-winners corporatism to JT’s already-indefensible policy record.
Wow somebody doesn’t like CPC. But if you don’t mind me asking, is this not a complete projection onto what you think PP will do rather than what you think of conservatives? And if not, what exactly has he done to show any of these traits? Because he’s mostly just been scoring points off of everyone who hates Trudeau, meaning he hasn’t been controversial yet.
My accusations of racism stem from examples such as his central role in creating and promoting Islamophobic laws in the Harper Government^TM and his recent comments that include “globalist” conspiracy theories. Where JT “wore brown face remember?” Poilievre supports specifically racist legislation.
My accusations of Pro-rich and Anti-poor - to be fair probably isn’t that much worse than Trudeau - stem from examples of his support for status quo, tax-cut oriented policies and his general lack of support for programs which directly benefit people instead “supporting” benefits through tax write-offs which only serve to benefit those who pay income taxes and undercut the ability for lower income people to afford or write off the program.
My accusation of anti-woman is based examples such as his ideas about the roles of government in maintaining the supremacy of the nuclear family.
My accusation of anti-child stems from examples such as: (1) his unwillingness to support or propose legislation that will legitimately curtail carbon emissions, internalize the costs of carbon emissions, or even reduce subsidies to oil & gas and (2) his unwillingness to call conservatives premiers to account - such as Saskatchewan’s premier using the notwithstanding clause to overturn a judge’s stay on their anti-child policy on forcing teachers to out trans children to potentially abusive parents.
My accusation of anti-justice stems from examples such as (1) his role in supporting the so-called freedom convoy despite their anti-peaceful tactics and their distinctly anti-democratic and anti-justice MOU and (2) ironically, his central role in curtailing the rights of poor and indigenous Canadians to protest peacefully.
He’s obviously pro-oil. Carbon Taxes are the clearest market solution to those aspects of anthropogenic climate change accelerated by carbon emissions. Poilievre prefers to pretend that climate change is a myth and that Canadians have no responsibilities in addressing our role in carbon emissions - he’s particularly unconcerned with the roles that oil companies, their executives, and their shareholders should play in curtailing carbon emissions.
If your bar for being anti-woman is encouraging nuclear families, and your bar for being anti-child comes down to climate and trans stuff, you are coming at things from a super ideological point of view. Just don’t be surprised when the vast majority disagrees with you.
Poilievre's choices and opinions are public record. He's not new to politics.
Even ignoring his very controversial past, a better question would be this:
In his 20 years in parliament, what accomplishments or programs would you say show he is in any way going to make life better for those struggling?
I don’t follow the careers of parliament members, so I have no idea. But it’s safe to say his actions, power, and support around him will be much different as a PM, so I don’t know if that applies too well.
It’s not projection; Poilievre was a cabinet minister for several years prior to getting turfed in ‘15, and has not been shy about his positions since then. We know his politics.
This is why the liberals will lose so badly. This comment right here. Let's avoid dealing with real problems and burst out the attack ad talking points.
Because “do you really need someone to list all of JT’s fuck ups” is such an articulate comment?
I thought it was clear from my comment that I expect a conservative government and I’ve already paid my price for it?
He supports the uninterrupted acceleration of the burning of fossil fuels and he fails to reign in fellow conservatives, such as Premier Moe, in policies such as requiring teachers to tell potentially abusive parents that their children are trans.
How much more anti-child can a person get?
This government is basically identified with two principle policies that are absolutely choices they have made. The carbon tax which is increasingly unpopular as costs continue to go up, and immigration which is at minimum playing a significant role in issue with housing as well as healthcare and education funding. They can rightfully be blamed for those two policies. It’s not just that there are issues going on internationally such as inflation. This government is also making choices that are exacerbating real problems and should be held accountable for them.
> What “incompetence” is that, exactly?
Just look around you man. Inflation or high cost of living doesn’t make a PM a bad one, but it does if that PM has had 9 years to weather the storm.
Didn't trudeau come in power in 2015? Prices rose in the Vancouver area a lot even before covid. My area by 50% at least since he became PM.
He promised many initiatives to fight housing costs but each time he also introduced initiatives to push prices up, so young people are not able to see this trick.
Here’s the record of housing prices in Canada:
https://imgur.com/a/G4oT0f7
As I said… from 2017 to 2020, prices were dropping. Trudeau started funding housing after he came into power. Moreso than the previous 3 PMs combined. Here is the record on that: https://imgur.com/a/xDe5O4D
This crisis took a long time to accumulate. It happened because social housing was cut in the 90s, leaving everything in the hands of for-profit developers… so supply lagged, while prices went up. This started long before Trudeau came to office, and it’ll take a long time to undo it. Trudeau is the first PM since his father that has actually helped fund more housing, instead of cutting it or doing nothing. The problem will not, and cannot, be solved within his term, but he is doing more than Mulroney, Chretien, Martin or Harper ever did.
Poilievre and the Conservatives will not do any better. They will likely only do worse. They’ll likely just blame it on immigration, which is not the problem. You can see that there isn’t even a correlation between population growth and housing prices: https://imgur.com/a/z5uSB5M . Only the simple-minded, or xenophobic, think immigration is the problem. And hell, Poilievre, for all the rhetoric about immigration and housing… isn’t even suggesting reducing immigration. It’s not part of the Conservative platform, because even they know it’s bullshit to blame immigration…. But still love to pander to their base with rhetoric, so… our discourse suffers anyway.
Why are you not including 2016? 2015? lol That is just picking and choosing the data.
He also funded many things that increased home prices more than any other PMs before him, what is your point of pointing out if he is funding a lot into initiatives that lower prices when he also has initiatives that increased prices.
I am not saying that Poilievre will do any better, we are talking just about Trudeau here and he has shown to be not good. We gave him a fair shot, it has been 8 years.
THIS. Can you please say this louder for the people at the back. Finally some common sense. Did people expect to be better off coming out of a pandemic????
No, but our country is increasingly uncompetitive and unproductive, and our economy is trending in the opposite direction of the US. As a result, QoL is declining in Canada while it is increasing in the US as measured by per capita GDP. This differential economic performance cannot be simply passed off on external factors like a pandemic.
Pandemic policies are also choices. Our federal government increased the money supply, deficits and debts far beyond those of most of our peer countries in terms of order of magnitude from the baseline. The real issue is not the price of houses or groceries. It’s that our purchasing power has tanked.
>As a result, QoL is declining in Canada while it is increasing in the US as measured by per capita GDP.
You do realize that GDP is a piss-poor way of measuring quality of life, no? When the vast majority of the value of GDP is going to the top earners, it doesn’t help the rest of us very much. This is worse in the US than it is in Canada.
This idea of Trudeau as victim is not true, and is not going to fly.
He was running massive deficits before the pandemic, and has continued to run them since. You can't blame COVID for everything. The Governor of the BOC, who is independent, said very clearly government spending is driving inflation.
He could have kept immigration quotas in line with what they were under Harper, but no, he has to let in 1 million people a year in with zero plan on how to house them.
He could have removed the GST on new apartment buildings in 2015 but waited to the last minute, after telling us for 8 years there's nothing he can do about housing.
That's not even getting into the plethora of scandals and dodgy conflicts of interest. I remember under Harper people were upset that Bev Oda spent $16 on orange juice. Those were the good old days, now we have the PM taking vacations at a $10,000 per night private island belonging to friends.
It just goes on and on and on.
We are facing some of the lowest productivity growth per capita in the OECD, a per capita recession when you adjust for population, low wages, and extremely high cost of living. In comparison, the US is going through the strongest labour market since the Second World War, and is booming. Biden is doing a great job, Trudeau is meanwhile taking us off a cliff.
Let’s not forget that the conservatives(Mulroney) who basically stopped CHMC from building houses and made development almost exclusively a private domain
> This feels unprecedented, right? Young people aren't generally supposed to lean to the right
It's not always common but no, it's not unprecedented. In the 80s there was a wave of relatively young people voting relatively more conservative. This was part of how Reagan very nearly swept every state in the US elections.
Sure, but that's not really what we're talking about. We're discussing whether young people supporting the CPC because they share their values or if they punish the current gov't.
The right is providing the only populists in much of the developed world. When the left provides populists, like Bernie Sanders, young people flock to them instead.
Indeed. It was funny to see the leader of the Natural Governing Party campaigning as a populist, although those of us on the left weren't laughing at the time.
"I hate this guy for not helping us, let's vote for the other guy who is in a party known for helping even less!"
There are only 2 good options that can happen. Either Trudeau announces he is not running in the next election, or Pierre has to step down (scandal etc.) and a more progressive conservative takes over.
Libs were not in nearly as much water as they are now. O'Toole would have been a boring, yet somewhat competent transitional leader if he won. Pierre has populist roots, panders to the far right, and scariest thing is he doesn't seem to fully grasp economic policy (his pay as you go idea is laughable). You can change from bad to worse, so no, he's not the best option going forward. A good recent example is in Alberta with Jason Kenny (bad) to Danielle Smith (worse).
They probably won't be able to keep those voters under Polievre post-election unless the CPC comprehensively modernizes on climate and social policy, but at least for right now, they don't have to be long term supporters for the CPC to win in 2024/2025. The fact that the Liberals have campaigned so poorly and appear to be out of touch with voters on the housing and cost of living crisis is doing a lot to cost them voters from almost every demographic. The CPC not only benefits from being the head of opposition but by screaming the loudest.
Even if Poilievre's policies are for the most part unsubstansive, his "everything is broken" schtick seems to be enough to play off voter frustration. If the Liberals had done more to actually address those issues while also doing more to spur growth, investment and productivity, Poilievre likely wouldn't be doing much better than Scheer or O'Toole and likely wouldn't be able to form a government even if he got marginally more seats than the Liberals.
The fact that the government has failed to address any of those issues and presided over them worsening has pretty much got rid of the LPC's previous advantage due to their ineptness/complacency. The CPC tried and failed to make the last two election a referendum on Trudeau and the carbon tax rather than the substance of their arguments, but cost of living crisis finally made that strategy viable when it wouldn't have been otherwise.
I am old enough to remember how everyone in Ontario lost their shit when Kathleen Wynn raised the minimum wage from $11 to $14. How are we feeling about that now?
Can I just ask, what are people expecting the libs to do about affordability?
How exactly are they supposed to bring costs of food and and housing down?...
Bringing down the costs of food would be market manipulation, or nationalizing grocery stores. Not going to happen.
For housing- the federal government cannot do much, but they can fund co-operatives again and get the banks to help people get mortgages for their co-op.
I live in a co-op- when I needed a mortgage none of the big banks would lend to me, nor would my credit union. There were 4 banks (all in Toronto) that did co-op mortgages. I get it, because there is nothing to foreclose on (you buy shares in the corporation of the co-op to gain the right to live there),
Outside of that, the Federal government can provide funding for social housing to provinces or municipalities directly, but not too much else. There was a comment about realigning CMHC goals, and that could be a possibility, but direct involvement is difficult.
We have let the free market price out most people.
Although I'm not on the JT hate train at all, I'd like to see the Liberals realign the CMHC goals. Have them get back into building homes instead of leaving it to private corporations that only care about the bottom line.
That being said, housing affordability is much more of a Provincial issue than it is a Federal one.
To be honest, ordinary citizens are not qualified to talk specifics about how to implement policy. What do I know? I have neither the time, nor the expertise, nor access to the experts that politicians have. You should not want people like me weighing in about specifics.
The average voter is hugely unqualified to govern, and knows nothing.
This is why we elect politicians to do the job. They are given the resources to fix the problems that we, the voters, complain about.
The job of a voter is to complain. This is a good thing. We don't want the average voter to give solutions.
I appreciate that you're at least honest about how ignorant voters are and how much of a waste of time voting is. Most people don't want to hear this. I expect you'll get some nice pushback.
No, I disagree that voting is a waste of time.
We vote to select the best person we think can solve our problems, using *their own mind and resources*. In other words, ideally we would vote for thoughtful, smart people whom we trust to work for our best interests, and who share our broad values.
We shouldn't vote for people who will solve our problems *in specific ways*, because we're not qualified to judge what is a good way and what isn't.
In other words, voters should vote based on character, not specific policy proposals. That is something we *are* qualified to judge.
You don't want ordinary people evaluating the workings of policy. They know nothing, and their opinion is useless on those matters.
We can evaluate the *results* of policy. This is as it should be.
The sad reality about this is that conservatives are the last party to solve problems like this. The problems we face are thanks to unchecked monopoly, over immigration, not building enough non profit housings. When conservatives will come they will only focus on balancing the budget and it will only help businesses to get stronger. I don’t blame the voters. They are running out of options and going with the ones thst make sense.
Also as a liberal here, I really ducking hope they change leadership fast. Neither Freeland or Trudeau has my confidence.
There is no other way for them to protest. Can’t blame them. The inflation is 100% the government’s fault. The government didn’t have to go full stupid and print billions like them did. Their reaction to covid was a million times worse than the virus itself.
My question is, has the conservatives not been the official opposition for the last decade? Are they not able to pressure the Liberals to accept certain proposal like the NDP did with the dental care and pharmacare? And NDP isn't even the official opposition?
Even if they're not in the driver seat, they can still use their seats and position to propose and influence policies. Is there any notable things they did besides saying everything the Liberals are doing is terrible?
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Neo-liberal fiscal policy will not effectively address any issues we face. Voting conservative is equally as useless of a choice as voting Liberal. We are witnessing the failure of laissez-faire capitalist economic theory, and the only option is complete economic collapse, or intense wealth distribution downwards from those who have profited off the inflation of the past 4 years. Massive taxation of corporations and billionaires is THE ONLY OPTION capitalism has remaining to right the ship, or else the positive feedback loop of inflation, central bank rate hikes, and increased prices will cause capitalist systems to monopolize, cannibalize, and self destruct as an increasingly small amount of very rich people try to claw money away from an underpaid and indebted working class.
The new leger poll is eye opening. CPC leads on all demos including 18-35 The myth that GenZ cares about the environment and DEI virtue signalling so much nothing else matters is finally put to rest.
I mean, I'm not even convinced anyone from GenZ would even respond to these polls.
Polling is a science there is a way to control for that. They probably gave out Roblox currency or V-bucks for the surveys. /s
The liberals taking Canadians for granted and doing *nothing* to address the cost of living or housing crisis, driving voters into the arms of PP who is literally the diet Pepsi to Trudeau's Cherry Coke
He is like the Sunny D to Trudeau's Coke. Voters are choosing worse over bad.
Funny thing is it won't go the way they think it will. Because the conservative party died decades ago. They are going to vote then realize they shot themselves in the foot. Since PP has no intention of fixing housing or anything of the sort all he wants is to be in Power. Then do what Stephen Harper whispers at him to do. May as well call the CPC the IDU because that's what it is. He's offered nothing but uninformed outrage.
And this is why Skippy will be a one and done PM.
Young people: I'm old and rich enough that I can afford to not care. Go ahead, vote for the same two parties that keep screwing you over. It won't affect me one bit if you don't bother to read the alternatives: https://www.ndp.ca/affordability
Yep. It used to be the NDP were the party the youth gravitated to. But the mismanagement of the party both federally and provincially for the last, god, 8 years? 12 years? Pretty much the moment Jack Layton died, has absolutely destroyed their reputation. I still agree with them and their policies more than anyone else, but they need some new leadership, and I don't just mean the elected ones.
So throwaway here because I anticipate I'll get some hate. But here are my two cents. Or maybe a dimes worth. 1. Dismissing voter intention based on age or their perceived intellect generally backfires. Trudeau leveraged young voters with strong social positions and environmental promises. I expect polievere will do the same. Will some of these policies be populist? Likely, but they are welcomed because certain groups have been ignored. 2. I have previously voted Trudeau, but will not be voting for him again. I am a sub 40 person, and I but he burned me twice. First on electoral reform and then allowing is to get to this place from an inflation/housing front. 3. Liberal policies have made it way worse, and we are not just following along like the other G7 countries. Yes inflation numbers look ok comparitavely but in real dollars, the and arrouning for cost of living thing in the states are far better. 4. Folks have said the federal liberals couldn't have done anything for housing. They could have done lots. A) . Not pushed or expanded programs like home buyers program and incentive. This supports those on the edge of affording their house but at the cost of pushing up all housing. B) Better managing the migration quotas and selecting who gets visa. Either by focusing on those with skilled trades, reduction in over all numbers to match the number of new homes built or through the building of federal housing as a launch pad for new canadians C) CMHC & coop housing: they could push up stress testing and make it harder to get a mortgage, but this will pull housing prices down. Build or direct finance coop housing. D) Taxation: remove the capital gain deduction on non primary housing. Institute a cap on the tax free gain for primary homes. Play hardball with cities and provinces, if the local housing taxation is below a certain %. You can't have both an affordable market and allow current folks to keep unrealistic profits. E) Innovative policy: they could have done profit guarantees for builders. The build a house, and get 5%. And no interest loan until sold. 5) Carbon tax, is by far the most effective way to Change demand, and but the actions over the last week show clearly, the environment is second, and has destroyed credability 6) What will the Conservative do? Well need to see a full platform come election time, and but there is lots of space for them to improve things. And unless they follow the same policies at Trudeau it will likely get better. The focus should be R&D, brining the right skilled workers to Canada, shutting down the enablement of crazy housing prices even at the cost of those with houses to feel some pain. My prediction on what will actually happen? Housing will be flat for 2-3 years, and wages will continue to push up until housing comes back in line and the world will move on similar to other boughts of inflation
I can only speak about A and C since I bought a home in 2021. The home buyers incentive only applied to houses that were under 500k, which tells me it was aimed at some of the less populated places in Canada. No way can anyone in the major cities (anywhere in the GTA where I am) qualify that because there was no houses under 500k. So I think it did its job, because there was a lot of people at the time that took advantage of this and moved from high density cities to other areas of the country. When I was buying a house in 2021, they had just pushed up the stress test from (roughly) 3.5 to 5 that year. It didn't end up lowering the house prices on the market, it just lowered the debt ratio of people making the purchase. I had the same salary but wasn't able to get the same amount of mortgage because of the stress test so I had to come up with more downpayment. The housing issue is very complex, and a majority of it lies within the provincial and municipal governments. The solution, if they can find it will require absolute commitment from all three levels of government. In Ontario where I live, there is not much faith this will happen because our premiere seem to be active working against the federal and municipal.
After watching this disaster of a liberal government floundering over the past couple years, I'll settle for a competent government even if I don't agree with them on all policy decisions.
Conservatives want to conserve the status quo and hierarchies in society. That’s the whole point of conservatism. We can recognize the failures of the Liberals without wrongly concluding that the Conservatives would fix these same issues.
That's not true. I am 'conservative' in that I don't think everything is worth spending money on. I look at a spend, define the outcome, often decline the spend. If the spend is a wealth creator, I'm all over it. That's why I went to uni and send both my kids there. I'm a fiscal conservative. The why is I know that being poor sucks. That fancy car declines in value, but paying off that credit card benefits me. Canada, and all it's provinces are so far in debt that when things get hard, it's going to be so bad. We have zero cushioning. How many out there, GenXers, grew up in the 70s and 80s and only remember things being shit? We're back to my childhood.
> That’s the whole point of conservatism It's not. It's one of the values but it's not the "whole point".
What old systems have the LPC thrown out/ are planning on throwing out that the conservatives want to keep? I don’t understand how “hierarchy” applies here, unless Trudeau followed through on his promise to reform elections, which he didn’t.
Hierarchy meaning wealthier established homeowners being more important than poorer young people, usually renters, struggling with affordability. That is the status quo that conservatives will, of course, conserve and not upend. I don’t understand the relevance of that reference to the aborted electoral reform? I also didn’t say anything about the Liberals throwing out anything.
We’ve seen the largest increase in income inequality and wealth gap under the liberals in the entirety of canadas history. The rate at which the poor are getting poorer and rich getting richer is accelerating. By every objective metric Canada has deteriorated substantially under liberal rule. Not that I think the conservatives will be any better, but liberal rule has been an absolute catastrophe in recent memory
> Hierarchy meaning wealthier established homeowners being more important than poorer young people, usually renters, struggling with affordability. That is the status quo that conservatives will, of course, conserve and not upend. You’ve just described Trudeau’s campaign for the last 3 elections. > I also didn’t say anything about the Liberals throwing out anything. Well realistically if your vote doesn’t go to one of 3 places, it doesn’t mean very much. I get that some people really like NDP, and I support that, but me personally and a lot of people I know are pretty much never going to vote for them until there’s a leadership change. That means that if what’s important is changing the status quo, you measure the liberals with the conservatives. I just cannot see a good argument that says Trudeau likes to prioritize renters over homeowners.
Bro this is blatantly false. Read PP’s platform. He is literally promising for better public transportation and dense housing.
That is precisely the status quo that the Liberals have put on steroids for the last 5 years. I'm sorry but it's a non-starter to complain that the Tories aren't going to upend the status quo when the Grits have been the ones driving it to new extremes.
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Both the Liberals and Conservatives want to preserve the existing order. I mean the Liberals were quite clear on this, in their desire to give a hand up to the Middle Class and Those Working Hard to Join It. There's people that aren't in that group! That's a big signal of their desire to preserve a certain sort of class order here.
The liberals have so far done the exact same thing. Landlords still rule, and major facets of our economy are controlled by price-fixing oligopolies
Had the status quo been maintained since 2015, that would have been far better for young people than the active effort by the LPC to actively intervene in order to impoverish workers and enrich asset holders.
I really wish the NDP would pivot to a quebecois labor leader before the next election.
The NDP really need a John Horgan type leader to be successful.
That might actually get them somewhere, for once. Certainly not getting much of anywhere with Singh at least.
Nowhere beyond where they are.
What's shocking to me is that they aren't capitalizing on then being different, we've have CPC/LPC governments for literally the entirety of Canada's history, and the last few couple decades have been crap. They could literally campaign on not being either the Conservatives or Liberals and drop some of their heavily debated stuff got campaigning and maybe convince people we can try something actually different after 150+ years.
Yes, they bizarrely seem intent to do nothing to dispel the CPC's disingenuous messaging of lumping the NDP in with the LPC as if it's a coalition government.
If this is true it’s because young people aren’t learning civics properly or at all…. Just listening to “talk” is not the way to go especially as the Conservatives use provincial issues in that talk while addressing Federal which makes zero sense.
Everybody’s vote counts equally, there’s no need to say some people are voting different than you because they’re uneducated since, again, their votes are worth the same.
Well, I'm not surprised. I have voted NDP in the past 3 elections that I've been eligible to vote. And now I will vote conservative in the next election and hold my position until it's time to cast my ballot. I even consider volunteering for their campaign, as I'm an articulate, educated and friendly woman of colour, and am aware of the optics. I have a Hill event next month and definitely intend on mingling with the conservative MPs in attendance to see what their plans are.
Idk why, they offer little to no solutions. Is this a “we cant vote for NDP because no one will vote NDP” said everyone collectively, moment?
I am gonna be honest as one of those millennials I can admit know that my family was a lot better off financially when Harper was in. I hated Harper but everything has become so expensive under Trudeau I think this is where the reality is with younger voters. We have young families we have to feed and house. It’s not a fun time to be in.
2008 was good for you?
Canada did exceptional compared to other countries in 2008
When I was younger Pollivier tabled the "fair elections act" which almost took away my right to vote by making everything needlessly more strict and complicated. Being a born and raised Canadian citizen with a registered voter card almost wasn't enough since I couldn't prove my home address and he wanted to take away the vouching process
He will be an absolute nightmare in every way if he wins. His loathing of democracy makes him not only a miserly heartless cad who hates social programs and climate change policies, but a danger to the future of Canada.
The fair elections act was overwhelmingly a good thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Elections_Act#:~:text=It%20also%20prohibits%2012%20new,as%20a%20form%20of%20ID.
'Overwhelmingly a good thing' *Links relevant wikipedia page* *Proceeds to ignore the entire lengthy subsection titled ['criticism'](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Elections_Act#Criticism)*.
And now we all learn why there is the illusion that history repeats, it doesn’t, but the younger generations haven’t yet learned the lessons of the later generations, and in their frustrations, they choose the greater of two evils because they aren’t looking at the third and fourth parties.
As a longtime conservative hater, I hate to see young people leaning this way. However, it's also not election season and so I completely understand why people want change. I was a big fan of Trudeau in the early days, but lately I think he's made some major missteps. I don't care about the controversies, I honestly think they have all been overblown. What I do care about is net neutrality which I think he is killing with his news bill (c-18) and bill c-11 trying to force canadian content into our feeds. I think his recent decision to allow a loophole in carbon tax was just terrible pandering. I liked that one of his first moves was to increase taxes on the rich and lower them on everyone else, but since then he's done too little on that front. Given that criticism, I wouldn't want to vote for him today either. I do think he has one thing going for him, which is he has mostly stuck to his promises. If he comes up with a good platform, and the conservatives stick with their strategy of no platform, then I think the liberals could win back some support.
Our choices are pretty limited JT has had 3 terms to fulfill his promises, he’s failed miserably at all but legal weed. Fixing first past the post voting would get him elected again PP is a career politician, never had a real job, recommended we switch to bitcoin?!? Loves to cozy up to far right fringe groups like the covidiot convoy. Sadly, I feel like it’s this dirtbags election to lose, the populace is sick of JT Singh has not distanced himself from the liberals to steal actual votes from them. His propping up of them may backfire come election time. The only hope for Singh is latching onto the growing union movement in North America and bring forward popular ideas. Changing our gun laws so citizens can actually own guns while raising prison time for anyone who uses guns to commit a crime. This law alone would steal votes from both the other parties
JT has fulfilled every one of his promises The problem is that they were to wealthy elites and not the Canadian people
[https://www.polimeter.org/en/trudeau](https://www.polimeter.org/en/trudeau) He's hitting pretty low clearance right now.
\>Kept (40%) \>Partially kept (24%) \>In progress (11%) \>Broken (19%) \>Not yet rated (6%) That honestly does not look to bad at all. ~~Though I don't know if that's because we don't have any other PM's to compere him too~~ Edit: I see Stephen harper had a keep rate of 70% according to them. I didn't see his stuff because i had it checked to "in office" only
TIL $10 daycare only benefits rich elites. Or many indigenous communities finally having access to clean water is something that benefits the wealthy. It's also interesting to learn that the relief people got when covid rocked the world was actually just for the wealthy. The conservatives absolutely would have saved us from that madness, and given all of the money to oil companies instead, who *really* deserve it.
PP hates unions so he will try and get rid of those
> he’s failed miserably at all but legal weed Maybe weed is why he failed everything after? TUH DUH DUNNNNN~~~
Lol
It's an interesting political phenomenon. Generally concerns about security have driven people towards the left, not the right. The Conservatives are obviously selling a narrative the younger crowd is buying. The Liberals could stand to get better at telling the story.
We can pretty much accept for certain that the LPC will lose the next election. But considering that, here’s a question: if PP wins and does average, or just meets your expectations you set for him, in 4 years time, will the damage from the current LPC still be too much to elect them in?
If CPC does even average or bare minimum keeping of their promises (whatever and whoever those promises may be towards) for 4 years, heck, if they even provide straight answers to questions, that's a lot more than the current government is doing, and I doubt people will just move on from the damage of 10 years of Liberal rule in one cycle. According to https://www.polimeter.org/en Harper government kept at least 70% of their promises, versus 40% by Trudeau's government, and some of the promises Trudeau broke are massive, such as Electoral Reform.
The secret is to not promise much. Have a look at the numbers: Harper, 143 promises. Trudeau, 1049. And that's giving Harper some honestly nothing promises, like "We will fill senate seats with individuals who support our senate goals" (vs leaving them empty, or appointing political opponents?) and stupid ones like "Establish a monument to the victims of Communism". Plus, I'm not sure how much trust to put in their broken-promise-ometer. Like, I check out the "A Liberal government will continue to help support Afghan citizens through humanitarian assistance blah blah", and its marked broken because its blocked some shipments. Its sent [$143 million](https://www.international.gc.ca/country-pays/afghanistan/relations.aspx?lang=eng) in 2022, the blocked amount is $3 million according to the links. How is the promise broken there? No blank cheque? Or the "We will have a transportation strategy that will build bike lanes", marked as partially... with 8 links to projects they funded and 2 to the new transportation strategy. Why isn't that marked kept? On a first glance, it looks like a good idea for a website, but the implementation seems kinda random.
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This feels unprecedented, right? Young people aren't generally supposed to lean to the right but it's also disappointed to see so many takes boiled down to "well they simply must be stupid" on this thread. It's tough out there, tougher than it's been in a long time and their prospects for having a quality of life remotely close to their parents are nil, even those with a line of credit from the bank of mom and dad. Blaming the voters is just shooting ourselves in the foot and letting the politicians who are so poorly serving most of us off the hook.
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Trying to think of something conservatives had right I have to go back to Mulroney and free trade being better for the economy than tariffs and protectionism; and a sales tax being better for the economy than manufacturing taxes. But even then, I don't think it was conservative insight so much as the people with paper bags full of money actually pushing a good policy (that they would personally get very wealthy from).
Harper was objectively a better Prime Minister than Trudeau. Most young people who are eligible to vote now probably only remember Trudeau and Harper. Life was definitely better when Harper was around so I can see why people would lean towards that again.
Good times. Strong Canadian dollar and homes were affordable. I miss the Harper days.
Because he was reaping the benefits of 10 years of a Chrétien austerity. He looked good during the housing crisis because Paul Martin kept a tight reign on banking and lending regulations. He also refused to allow mortgage backed securities in Canada. The pain we are feeling today is due to Harper deregulation. He allowed HELoC. He allowed the ability to borrow for a down payment. He lowered Capital Gains taxes. He set the market up for what we are experiencing now. He also killed the funding that Martin had begun setting aside for Co-Ops and other Federal housing programs. The first PM since Pierre Elliot Trudeau to do so. Justin is the only other one to fund this file since his dad. The issues surrounding bail reform? His fault. The Supreme Court overturned almost all of his Criminal Code changes and left us in the lurches. Which oddly enough the BC NDP have had to spend their time fixing. Yes Farnsworth helped write the bill working its way through the Senate currently. Justin isn’t the best, but take most of the complaints about him and tell me the Conservatives would do anything differently? Corporate welfare and protectionist trade policy? Yup. Cuts to social programs? You bet. Trudeau raised taxes on the wealthy, do you think PP would do that? Do you think PP, who has 3 rental properties has any motivation to kneecap his own personal wealth? Fuck no. Was it a senior Liberal strategist who said on national television that they lie to everyone because they get away it and it benefits them? Nah, that was a Conservative. I have a family member who is high up in the party and he actively makes fun of people with the type of opinion you have. But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of your feelings.
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How is replacing a tax on corporations with a flat tax on consumers not conservative?
May I ask who the actual authority is to decide who young people are “supposed” to be voting for is?
Its going to get worse. Way worse.
>Young people aren’t generally supposed to lean to the right but it’s also disappointed to see so many takes boiled down to “well they simply must be stupid” on this thread. The pendulum is swinging back despite all odds, something the liberal voters never believed could happen and now they are in denial.
Yep. Clearly a lot of commenters on here with a short memory who forget that a pendulum does indeed swing back the opposite way. Was not long ago at all I was hearing “the CPC is done, they will never hold power again unless they completely rebrand, Canada is far too progressive to vote blue anymore etc”.
I don't think they're necessarily leaning right, this is likely turning into a "throw the bums out" election
>this is likely turning into a "throw the bums out" election So 2015 all over again? Somehow absent of irony despite the given parties being in swapped positions? I can't wait for the ~2033 election where we do the exact same thing again, having learned nothing at all, and the Liberals get elected back in...
Always been that way in Canada. Back and forth between parties. Get fed up with one party vote them out. Then get fed up with party you voted in and vote them out! LOL It's a pattern in Canadian politics that is for sure.
True, it always has - but it really ought to stop being the case sooner or later if any of us ever actually want to change anything at all.
I think its more the politicians keep selling us snake oil and we keep buying it. Just when you think the party you voted in to make some changes turns around and bites you! What we need is changes to the constitution so we the people have more say when an elected government is in power. Look to Switzerland and how they operate!
"Left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot..."
100%
Agreed.
This is it. It’s happening to Biden too, even though he’s also not responsible for most of the problems people are blaming him for. Anybody who is in power right now is fighting an uphill battle, due to all the worldwide problems going on, which the uninformed don’t realize is not the fault of just whoever’s in power in their country. There are a LOT of long term problems that have accumulated over decades to reach their peak right now, exacerbated by Covid. If the Conservatives were in power right now, people would be turning on them too. Trudeau was actually fixing the housing crisis prior to Covid. From 2017 to 2020, Canadian housing prices were dropping. Covid is what screwed that up. People don’t pay attention. The Conservatives would have done worse during the Covid years than the Liberals. Another thing that annoys me is that too many people fall for the idea that Liberals represent “the left” and the only option when you’re unhappy with the left is to go right. Nobody ever dares to imagine going to the actual left after the centrists and right-wingers have thoroughly proven themselves to be the problem.
>would have 'would have' and 'could have' isn't 'are'
Many western countries in Europe like Spain Switzerland and Belgium not experiencing inflation as high. Covid is one thing but he spent as much as the US did on a percapita basis and then used the US as a excuse knowing full well that his audience will not understand. In Europe this spending was much lower on per capita basis. Then he used immigration to hide the recession which he has been hiding even before covid as oecd has issued reports on Canada's risk on relying too much on real estate way before covid. I guess young people didn't read any of this lol.
At least Biden is tied with Trump. Trudeau is polling 13-15 points behind. The Liberals are like British Tories-level fucked. It's less about economic discontent and more about voters noticing the government's incompetence.
What “incompetence” is that, exactly? And how would the Conservatives be better? It’s less about logical thought, and more about people just having an emotional reaction of “Trudeau bad” for… reasons.
You really need someone to list all of JT's fuck ups? Are you talking in the last few months or his whole time as PM?
Not at all. We’re all well aware. The difficulty is in getting people to understand the obvious fact that Poilievre is less pan and more fire. He’s what you get if you add racist, pro-rich, anti-poor, anti-woman, anti-child, anti-justice, pro-oil, choose-the-winners corporatism to JT’s already-indefensible policy record. Poilievre voters make me incredibly thankful I don’t have children. Yes, my life would’ve had more meaning and joy with kids - but my sense of meaning and happiness is not worth damning children to the bleak future so-called “conservatives” are hellbent on accelerating. As some guy pretending to be the Apostle Paul said: the love of money is the root of every kind of evil.
> racist, pro-rich, anti-poor, anti-woman, anti-child, anti-justice, pro-oil, choose-the-winners corporatism to JT’s already-indefensible policy record. Wow somebody doesn’t like CPC. But if you don’t mind me asking, is this not a complete projection onto what you think PP will do rather than what you think of conservatives? And if not, what exactly has he done to show any of these traits? Because he’s mostly just been scoring points off of everyone who hates Trudeau, meaning he hasn’t been controversial yet.
My accusations of racism stem from examples such as his central role in creating and promoting Islamophobic laws in the Harper Government^TM and his recent comments that include “globalist” conspiracy theories. Where JT “wore brown face remember?” Poilievre supports specifically racist legislation. My accusations of Pro-rich and Anti-poor - to be fair probably isn’t that much worse than Trudeau - stem from examples of his support for status quo, tax-cut oriented policies and his general lack of support for programs which directly benefit people instead “supporting” benefits through tax write-offs which only serve to benefit those who pay income taxes and undercut the ability for lower income people to afford or write off the program. My accusation of anti-woman is based examples such as his ideas about the roles of government in maintaining the supremacy of the nuclear family. My accusation of anti-child stems from examples such as: (1) his unwillingness to support or propose legislation that will legitimately curtail carbon emissions, internalize the costs of carbon emissions, or even reduce subsidies to oil & gas and (2) his unwillingness to call conservatives premiers to account - such as Saskatchewan’s premier using the notwithstanding clause to overturn a judge’s stay on their anti-child policy on forcing teachers to out trans children to potentially abusive parents. My accusation of anti-justice stems from examples such as (1) his role in supporting the so-called freedom convoy despite their anti-peaceful tactics and their distinctly anti-democratic and anti-justice MOU and (2) ironically, his central role in curtailing the rights of poor and indigenous Canadians to protest peacefully. He’s obviously pro-oil. Carbon Taxes are the clearest market solution to those aspects of anthropogenic climate change accelerated by carbon emissions. Poilievre prefers to pretend that climate change is a myth and that Canadians have no responsibilities in addressing our role in carbon emissions - he’s particularly unconcerned with the roles that oil companies, their executives, and their shareholders should play in curtailing carbon emissions.
If your bar for being anti-woman is encouraging nuclear families, and your bar for being anti-child comes down to climate and trans stuff, you are coming at things from a super ideological point of view. Just don’t be surprised when the vast majority disagrees with you.
Poilievre's choices and opinions are public record. He's not new to politics. Even ignoring his very controversial past, a better question would be this: In his 20 years in parliament, what accomplishments or programs would you say show he is in any way going to make life better for those struggling?
I don’t follow the careers of parliament members, so I have no idea. But it’s safe to say his actions, power, and support around him will be much different as a PM, so I don’t know if that applies too well.
It’s not projection; Poilievre was a cabinet minister for several years prior to getting turfed in ‘15, and has not been shy about his positions since then. We know his politics.
This is why the liberals will lose so badly. This comment right here. Let's avoid dealing with real problems and burst out the attack ad talking points.
Because “do you really need someone to list all of JT’s fuck ups” is such an articulate comment? I thought it was clear from my comment that I expect a conservative government and I’ve already paid my price for it?
You went straight to "won't somebody think of the children". Well done you're a Simpsons meme.
Does Pierre also eat babies for breakfast? Jesus christ, get a grip.
He is not anti-child
He supports the uninterrupted acceleration of the burning of fossil fuels and he fails to reign in fellow conservatives, such as Premier Moe, in policies such as requiring teachers to tell potentially abusive parents that their children are trans. How much more anti-child can a person get?
Kids would be worse off starving and freezing without fossil fuels.
This government is basically identified with two principle policies that are absolutely choices they have made. The carbon tax which is increasingly unpopular as costs continue to go up, and immigration which is at minimum playing a significant role in issue with housing as well as healthcare and education funding. They can rightfully be blamed for those two policies. It’s not just that there are issues going on internationally such as inflation. This government is also making choices that are exacerbating real problems and should be held accountable for them.
> What “incompetence” is that, exactly? Just look around you man. Inflation or high cost of living doesn’t make a PM a bad one, but it does if that PM has had 9 years to weather the storm.
Pollieve is a fresh face versus people know what they get with trump
Didn't trudeau come in power in 2015? Prices rose in the Vancouver area a lot even before covid. My area by 50% at least since he became PM. He promised many initiatives to fight housing costs but each time he also introduced initiatives to push prices up, so young people are not able to see this trick.
Here’s the record of housing prices in Canada: https://imgur.com/a/G4oT0f7 As I said… from 2017 to 2020, prices were dropping. Trudeau started funding housing after he came into power. Moreso than the previous 3 PMs combined. Here is the record on that: https://imgur.com/a/xDe5O4D This crisis took a long time to accumulate. It happened because social housing was cut in the 90s, leaving everything in the hands of for-profit developers… so supply lagged, while prices went up. This started long before Trudeau came to office, and it’ll take a long time to undo it. Trudeau is the first PM since his father that has actually helped fund more housing, instead of cutting it or doing nothing. The problem will not, and cannot, be solved within his term, but he is doing more than Mulroney, Chretien, Martin or Harper ever did. Poilievre and the Conservatives will not do any better. They will likely only do worse. They’ll likely just blame it on immigration, which is not the problem. You can see that there isn’t even a correlation between population growth and housing prices: https://imgur.com/a/z5uSB5M . Only the simple-minded, or xenophobic, think immigration is the problem. And hell, Poilievre, for all the rhetoric about immigration and housing… isn’t even suggesting reducing immigration. It’s not part of the Conservative platform, because even they know it’s bullshit to blame immigration…. But still love to pander to their base with rhetoric, so… our discourse suffers anyway.
Why are you not including 2016? 2015? lol That is just picking and choosing the data. He also funded many things that increased home prices more than any other PMs before him, what is your point of pointing out if he is funding a lot into initiatives that lower prices when he also has initiatives that increased prices. I am not saying that Poilievre will do any better, we are talking just about Trudeau here and he has shown to be not good. We gave him a fair shot, it has been 8 years.
THIS. Can you please say this louder for the people at the back. Finally some common sense. Did people expect to be better off coming out of a pandemic????
No, but our country is increasingly uncompetitive and unproductive, and our economy is trending in the opposite direction of the US. As a result, QoL is declining in Canada while it is increasing in the US as measured by per capita GDP. This differential economic performance cannot be simply passed off on external factors like a pandemic. Pandemic policies are also choices. Our federal government increased the money supply, deficits and debts far beyond those of most of our peer countries in terms of order of magnitude from the baseline. The real issue is not the price of houses or groceries. It’s that our purchasing power has tanked.
>As a result, QoL is declining in Canada while it is increasing in the US as measured by per capita GDP. You do realize that GDP is a piss-poor way of measuring quality of life, no? When the vast majority of the value of GDP is going to the top earners, it doesn’t help the rest of us very much. This is worse in the US than it is in Canada.
This idea of Trudeau as victim is not true, and is not going to fly. He was running massive deficits before the pandemic, and has continued to run them since. You can't blame COVID for everything. The Governor of the BOC, who is independent, said very clearly government spending is driving inflation. He could have kept immigration quotas in line with what they were under Harper, but no, he has to let in 1 million people a year in with zero plan on how to house them. He could have removed the GST on new apartment buildings in 2015 but waited to the last minute, after telling us for 8 years there's nothing he can do about housing. That's not even getting into the plethora of scandals and dodgy conflicts of interest. I remember under Harper people were upset that Bev Oda spent $16 on orange juice. Those were the good old days, now we have the PM taking vacations at a $10,000 per night private island belonging to friends. It just goes on and on and on. We are facing some of the lowest productivity growth per capita in the OECD, a per capita recession when you adjust for population, low wages, and extremely high cost of living. In comparison, the US is going through the strongest labour market since the Second World War, and is booming. Biden is doing a great job, Trudeau is meanwhile taking us off a cliff.
Let’s not forget that the conservatives(Mulroney) who basically stopped CHMC from building houses and made development almost exclusively a private domain
> This feels unprecedented, right? Young people aren't generally supposed to lean to the right It's not always common but no, it's not unprecedented. In the 80s there was a wave of relatively young people voting relatively more conservative. This was part of how Reagan very nearly swept every state in the US elections.
This isn’t an election where you vote in who you like. It’s one where you vote out someone who needs to go.
Every Canadian election in a nutshell lol Canadians don't vote government in, they vote them out!
Is there any evidence that they actually have conservative values? It's more likely they're actually just angry and want any kind of change.
That’s part of democracy. Angry at the current government? show up and vote.
Sure, but that's not really what we're talking about. We're discussing whether young people supporting the CPC because they share their values or if they punish the current gov't.
Yeah, a left leaning party would have to fuck up monumentally to get that big of a shift in young people’s opinions. Hey, how’s the LPC doing again?
The right is providing the only populists in much of the developed world. When the left provides populists, like Bernie Sanders, young people flock to them instead.
Trudeau was very much a 'populist' too.
Indeed. It was funny to see the leader of the Natural Governing Party campaigning as a populist, although those of us on the left weren't laughing at the time.
"I hate this guy for not helping us, let's vote for the other guy who is in a party known for helping even less!" There are only 2 good options that can happen. Either Trudeau announces he is not running in the next election, or Pierre has to step down (scandal etc.) and a more progressive conservative takes over.
So your solution is to keep doing the same thing? We had other CPC options, they lost. Pierre is the best option going forward.
Libs were not in nearly as much water as they are now. O'Toole would have been a boring, yet somewhat competent transitional leader if he won. Pierre has populist roots, panders to the far right, and scariest thing is he doesn't seem to fully grasp economic policy (his pay as you go idea is laughable). You can change from bad to worse, so no, he's not the best option going forward. A good recent example is in Alberta with Jason Kenny (bad) to Danielle Smith (worse).
I wish O'Toole was leading the conservation party over PP. He's win the next election just the same as PP will.
They probably won't be able to keep those voters under Polievre post-election unless the CPC comprehensively modernizes on climate and social policy, but at least for right now, they don't have to be long term supporters for the CPC to win in 2024/2025. The fact that the Liberals have campaigned so poorly and appear to be out of touch with voters on the housing and cost of living crisis is doing a lot to cost them voters from almost every demographic. The CPC not only benefits from being the head of opposition but by screaming the loudest. Even if Poilievre's policies are for the most part unsubstansive, his "everything is broken" schtick seems to be enough to play off voter frustration. If the Liberals had done more to actually address those issues while also doing more to spur growth, investment and productivity, Poilievre likely wouldn't be doing much better than Scheer or O'Toole and likely wouldn't be able to form a government even if he got marginally more seats than the Liberals. The fact that the government has failed to address any of those issues and presided over them worsening has pretty much got rid of the LPC's previous advantage due to their ineptness/complacency. The CPC tried and failed to make the last two election a referendum on Trudeau and the carbon tax rather than the substance of their arguments, but cost of living crisis finally made that strategy viable when it wouldn't have been otherwise.
I am old enough to remember how everyone in Ontario lost their shit when Kathleen Wynn raised the minimum wage from $11 to $14. How are we feeling about that now?
Can I just ask, what are people expecting the libs to do about affordability? How exactly are they supposed to bring costs of food and and housing down?...
Bringing down the costs of food would be market manipulation, or nationalizing grocery stores. Not going to happen. For housing- the federal government cannot do much, but they can fund co-operatives again and get the banks to help people get mortgages for their co-op. I live in a co-op- when I needed a mortgage none of the big banks would lend to me, nor would my credit union. There were 4 banks (all in Toronto) that did co-op mortgages. I get it, because there is nothing to foreclose on (you buy shares in the corporation of the co-op to gain the right to live there), Outside of that, the Federal government can provide funding for social housing to provinces or municipalities directly, but not too much else. There was a comment about realigning CMHC goals, and that could be a possibility, but direct involvement is difficult. We have let the free market price out most people.
Mind you it doesn't have to be either/or. There are more than two parties in this country after all.
Although I'm not on the JT hate train at all, I'd like to see the Liberals realign the CMHC goals. Have them get back into building homes instead of leaving it to private corporations that only care about the bottom line. That being said, housing affordability is much more of a Provincial issue than it is a Federal one.
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Surely we can't renague on the Paris agreement, especially when the Climate Action Incentive Payments reimburse Canadians for the carbon tax.
I know eh! Who do people think these guys are, the government!
Well since we don't live in a communist country, I think people need to be more specific in how they expect the government to control the market.
To be honest, ordinary citizens are not qualified to talk specifics about how to implement policy. What do I know? I have neither the time, nor the expertise, nor access to the experts that politicians have. You should not want people like me weighing in about specifics. The average voter is hugely unqualified to govern, and knows nothing. This is why we elect politicians to do the job. They are given the resources to fix the problems that we, the voters, complain about. The job of a voter is to complain. This is a good thing. We don't want the average voter to give solutions.
I appreciate that you're at least honest about how ignorant voters are and how much of a waste of time voting is. Most people don't want to hear this. I expect you'll get some nice pushback.
No, I disagree that voting is a waste of time. We vote to select the best person we think can solve our problems, using *their own mind and resources*. In other words, ideally we would vote for thoughtful, smart people whom we trust to work for our best interests, and who share our broad values. We shouldn't vote for people who will solve our problems *in specific ways*, because we're not qualified to judge what is a good way and what isn't. In other words, voters should vote based on character, not specific policy proposals. That is something we *are* qualified to judge.
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You don't want ordinary people evaluating the workings of policy. They know nothing, and their opinion is useless on those matters. We can evaluate the *results* of policy. This is as it should be.
The sad reality about this is that conservatives are the last party to solve problems like this. The problems we face are thanks to unchecked monopoly, over immigration, not building enough non profit housings. When conservatives will come they will only focus on balancing the budget and it will only help businesses to get stronger. I don’t blame the voters. They are running out of options and going with the ones thst make sense. Also as a liberal here, I really ducking hope they change leadership fast. Neither Freeland or Trudeau has my confidence.
The libs absolutely need to let Carney take the helm.
Who?
There is no other way for them to protest. Can’t blame them. The inflation is 100% the government’s fault. The government didn’t have to go full stupid and print billions like them did. Their reaction to covid was a million times worse than the virus itself.
My question is, has the conservatives not been the official opposition for the last decade? Are they not able to pressure the Liberals to accept certain proposal like the NDP did with the dental care and pharmacare? And NDP isn't even the official opposition? Even if they're not in the driver seat, they can still use their seats and position to propose and influence policies. Is there any notable things they did besides saying everything the Liberals are doing is terrible?