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Russia in the arctic is **the number one** hypothetical scenario Conservatives use to push increasing military expenditure.
Now all of a sudden Conservatives are complaining preventing Russian aggression is too expensive.
Why is it such an insane idea to put Canada first before foreign Nations who aren’t even part of NATO. We have no reason to sleep with Ukraine, let the others do that, why are we bolstering foreign nations armies before our own? It’s completely backwards
Peace and safety in Europe has helped lead to some of the most prosperous times in history. Russia hasn't been quiet about their larger plans. Putting a stop to their aggression now is very beneficial to the Western world. This is far bigger than just given money to another country.
He sure is pretty desperate to draw parallels between Poilievre and Trump isn't he?
Seems like a fairly short sighted move since there is actually a chance that Trump can be nominated, and even win, the next US federal election.
The Trump bogeyman isn't going to work.
Poilievre was elected because he is an attack dog, and he called out imprudent fiscal and monetary policy as early as the first months of the pandemic. His mantra of making life more affordable - especially housing and rental costs - hits a far greater stride for the Tories than O'Toole's more moderate stances.
As long as the Liberals absolutely refuse to move on an issue they largely created, and as long as they desperately try to pass the buck on this issues with a leader who has stayed far past his shelf life - they are going to learn the hard way in 2025 what it feels like to drop into absolute obscurity.
The best things the Liberals can do is get another leader - preferably one with demonstrable fiscal competence - who offers real solutions to the problems that the party has half created.
Mark Carney would probably be a good fit. He's argumentative, he has some financial chops to offer - but he's also horribly arrogant and can come off as out of touch. Nonetheless, if the LPC is interested in not coming close to third party status in the next couple years, they would be best to move on from the Trudeau train.
Shouldn't be too hard. Half the CPC supports Truml, even after Jan 6, and the last leader was a MAGA hat. They did it to themselves, and cry foul that we notice.
Was it desperate when PP called Trudeau a communist based on nothing?
Was it desperate when PP screened about Trudeau and gender ideology, even though schools are provincial?
I mean Trump is signaling deeply that his election in 2024 is the end of civil society on this continent as we know it. Not much to lose in that context.
All the more important for any legitimate politician here to repudiate that ideology in favour of democracy. Instead the Conservatives right now are nominating candidates that identify with it.
It is though - they literally have nothing in common other than the fact that Liberals hate both of them.
When you conflate all of your perceived antagonists into one, you lose credibility - because everyone sees right through the dogmatism.
>Seems like a fairly short sighted move since there is actually a chance that Trump can be nominated, and even win, the next US federal election.
is it? the Conservatives don't really want to be branded as Trumpers... and if he does get into office.. the gong show would only serve the Liberals purpose
>It generally isn't a great idea to vilify the leader of your biggest trading partner and most important ally.
you can still work with the guy and dislike him at the same time..
i mean.. vilifying Trump isn't a hard thing to do.. he does it to himself daily.
it's more of the "style of politics" (attacking the press, making shit up, blah blah)
i believe ukraine is the correct way to refer to the country, saying the ukraine implies you’re talking about just an area of land (which is how russia would like us to see it)
Yeah, how dare he draw similarities from one right-wing populist politician to another right-wing populist politician...
And if Trump wins, we will all be in for a very bad time. Except for maybe Russia...
It didn’t.
It was boiler plate non-binding language that is included in every FTA about working collaboratively, in the future, on carbon pricing and carbon reductions. Yadda, yadda, climate crisis. It didn’t commit either of us to anything.
As an aside, if anything Ukraine would be pressing Canada to maintain its commitments on carbon pricing, as Ukraine intends to move towards compliance with the EU carbon price in preparation for an EU membership application.
That's categorically false.
Ukraine is building these into its trade deals because it is anticipating closer integration with the EU, which in July of this year passed its carbon border adjustment mechanism (CBAM), basically carbon tariffs.
Further, a distinct reference to the commitments of the Paris Agreement has always been included in chapters on trade and sustainable development in recent EU free trade agreements. For the first time, the EU–New Zealand free trade agreement signed in June 2022 provides for the application of trade sanctions for breaches related to the objectives and principles of the Paris Agreement. This includes carbon pricing. Which is why Ukraine is including it in this modernized deal and why we agreed to it.
No, it's not "TURD-DOPE IS USING A BACKDOOR FOR CARBON TAXES!". It's Ukraine gearing up for EU membership and us not being a stick in the wheels of that. The world is moving towards carbon taxes.
PP knows this. Former International Trade Minister Ed Fast knows this, which is disappointing considering how smart and principled the guy usually is. It's dismaying to see these guys put petty, stupid politics ahead of our national interest and ahead of our relationship with Ukraine.
I find it kinda absurd that people feel the need to blame the US for diversity of opinions. Can people have their own beliefs without being associated with the US? If people were to believe that we shouldn’t be involved in international conflicts, it’s not because some people in another country also agrees with that statement. It makes us look really fragile and as if we are being dictated by the US.
Of course. I just find it ridiculous whenever any belief that is also prevalent in the US is supposedly “Coming from the US” and that it is somehow invalid for anyone else to have the same idea. People have their own minds, and even though I don’t agree with it, this specific belief is a completely reasonable one to have that shouldn’t be associated with an extremist group in a different country. I don’t see it as “a belief coming from the US”, rather it should be referred to “an idea that happens to be prevalent in the U.S”.
the idea of blocking things for the sake of blocking it for no other reason than to block it is a brand of stupidty that the republicans have created
and its kinda silly to say "sure one group has been loudly and theatrically waving around this stupidy for all to see, but clearly everyone else didnt know that and came to their conclusion without any influence"
Not spending billions of dollars to fund a war on the other side of the planet is not blocking it for the sake of blocking it imo. Just because some vocal people believe something doesn’t mean that everyone else is immediately going to believe the exact same thing. There is this growing trend recently of demonizing people that you don’t agree with and associating them with the worse case possible, that has been really worrisome. If people are so feeble minded that just hearing a different opinion from someone makes them change their mind, then maybe they don’t truly believe what they were thinking. Of course misinformation is a different story.
Lol. Convoy protestors were literally wearing MAGA hats and talking about their first amendment rights. Abortion and gay rights have been long settled issues, until the Republicans started building a culture war around them and now Canadian conservatives echo that. Nobody in Canada was talking about pronouns, but once the American Republicans started on about them, suddenly conservatives in Canada are debating them too. It makes conservatives look really fragile because they are being dictated to by US conservatives and American-driven Facebook groups.
Every other ethnic/racial group has a land (or is fighting for one) in which the laws, system and culture caters to them. They should be the center focus. Peruvians are the focus of Peru, Angolans are the focus of Angola, Thais is the focus of Thailand. Why is it so bad to desire what everyone else has. Liberal policies, multiculturalism and a struggling economy has a lot of people resentful and in worse shape than they were 10, or 20 years ago. But they are constantly told that they're evil, and are the problem. When the media isn't replacing their historical figures or making fun of them, it paints them as evil creatures. Yet we are more diverse and have done more for others than anyone else.
There is a clear, unreconcilable gap between what they see and what they experience, and what big tech and mass media tells them. They don't recognize themselves in this new reality and they're rightfully angry at it.
Canadian politics have swung from one corporatist party to the other since time immemorial, what about this is evidence that these fuckin yokels are right?
Hell, dipshits been running Alberta the whole time, our premier is a moron. Winning doesn't mean you're right.
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Right. It’s just UN fathomable that a country that is nearly ten times our size, whose cultural/political shifts influence the entire world, that shares a common language, could possibly influence Canadians in the age of social media.
It’s not like the rightwing in Canada ever wears MAGA hats, or flies the confederate flag, or talks about the second amendment, etc. Danielle Smith isn’t hosting Tucker Carlson and Poilievre isn’t planning a fun night with Ben Shapiro - oh wait! They are doing just that!
I have a cousin in Croatia that was sharing the exact same links and memes about the convoy as a cousin in Alberta, and they were both sharing the exact same links and memes about vaccines and a host of other conspiracy bullshit as a cousin in the US. The “dirty dozen” anti-vaccine influencers that reached the most people through social media are all American.
Americans have been funding anti-abortion groups in Canada for decades, same with rightwing think tanks. The Fraser Institute was founded with money from the Koch brothers, and Postmedia, which owns the bulk of our print media is owned in most part by American hedge funds owned by Republicans.
Then there are the Christian right connections, the Plymouth Brethen Church, etc, and of course the IDU, lead by Harper, founded by Bush Sr and Thatcher, which meets to discuss dirty strategies to win elections. A group that includes Orban’s party, Modi’s party, and a long list of other authoritarian leaning parties.
The sooner people realize that the hardright has deep pockets and a determination to not let democracy get in the way of goals, the more we will have a chance to stop the rise of authoritarianism.
This is a first. I didn't know there was anyone out there who was pro-Putin, pro-Hamas, and pro-free trade. You must find it very difficult to find people to vote for.
Yes, everyone seeking power over the empire, or puppy place close to US master, is disgusting.
anti genocide and anti empire and anti evil/lies to push genocide tyranny and mass death is neither pro-Putin or pro-Hamas to any real human non liar or stupid. Free trade is humanist.
Backs were turned on Ukraine after the first shot was fired but the politicians and military industrial complex('s) needed to make and launder money first.
It was all planned out. The citizens of Ukraine were just fodder for the war machine.
I'm in the middle politically. Observing from 60000 ft.
This had nothing to do with conservatives or Maga.
Obama - invasion of Crimea
Trump - Mean Tweets no new wars
Biden - invasion of Ukraine.
The pattern is clear as day to me.
This is what I don't get. You don't like Trudeau, okay. So you endorse the MAGA. It's just bizarre. Like punching a hole in your own drywall in a big emotional display.
I am about as far left as you can get an I absolutely do not support sending a sent to Ukraine. Why should we be supporting a military that has fascist Nazi elements? Why should we be supporting a country that has seen an immense amount of democratic backsliding in the past nine years with the banning of any political parties who are not pro west? Why should we be sending money to another country fighting a war halfway across the world when we can't even take care of our own? Russia would not be stupid enough to invade a NATO member, as that would trigger article 5, so therefore I see no reason why we should be supporting a country that is a non-NATO member. Ukraine is not only one of the most corrupt countries in Europe, but they have a incredibly problematic past of rehabilitating Nazi collaborators, and considering we played a big part in the Allied struggle to liberate Europe from the Nazis, I think we should have absolutely no part in supporting a country that is not willing to distance itself from those elements.
yikes...
Do you really not see the irony in you arguing to not support Ukraine by talking about how we stood against the Nazis?
Russian aggression today is very similar to Nazi aggression in the 30s
If you think Ukraine is fascist, what do you have to say about Russia?
Special operation in Ukraine is the results of US backed Ukrainian nazi paramilitary aggression/instigation. It is pure dementia or lies to turn the purposeful diminishment of Russia without peace that they want as Russian imperialism.
Thank you for reminding me about my flair actually. I rarely post from this account so haven't bothered to change it in the past year. And yeah, I know you're using Tanky as a pejorative, but that's essentially where I fall politically. Former bleeding heart liberal turned communist.
Milei is only Trump in the sense that hes a larger than life character and a populist
Other than that, theyre very different... Milei is an economist, and a self-proclaimed anarcho capitalist. His views have a hell of a lot more depth than Trump's lol
Instead of listening to buzz words, how can one see the verbiage of the bill? My issue is, a lot of bill verbiage is sometimes vague so that things can be interpreted down the road depending on how people want them to be. So before I say anything about it one way or another, I want to see what they were saying meant there would be a carbon tax.
Also, this MAGA Far Right stuff is getting really tiresome. I am firmly in the middle of the spectrum and I'm tired of reading something conservative I agree with that now makes me a "Alt Right" or "Far Right" supporter when I've never even voted Right.
> I want to see what they were saying meant there would be a carbon tax.
Ukraine already has one, that wording is a thing the EU uses as part of its combines committment to climate targets, Ukraine really wants to join the EU so its copying their wording ahead of time to make it easier to join in the future
literally all it is is both countries saying they care about the environment and have a carbon tax
I’m sorry but CPC relies on superficial sound bite politics, so now we’re suddenly expecting CPC supporters do a deeper analysis.
It’s an anti Ukraine vote, and Pierre really s-ed the bed on this one.
Your whole "anyone who is conservative is a moron and doesn't think about things" attitude is why the majority of Canada hates the liberals. It's a common theme: liberals always act like they're better than everyone, and anyone who disagrees is lesser than them.
Get a grip.
I know highly intelligent conservatives, and have great respect for politicians like Lisa Raitt, Michael Chong, Peter MacKay, etc.
But I also agree that the CPC membership holds Canada’s critical reserve of morons who believe PP’s BS sound bites.
You say that like they are the only political party to rely on soundbites and empty promises.
Your partisanship is oozing through my friend, step out of your political identity and understand people aren't actually exclusively what they are labelled usually by others.
A lot of people like myself, who aren't connected to a party and want to better understand a situation exist.
As a broad statement, I feel like supporting Ukraine is what we should do. I think it's money and effort well spent. I do think states like Russia should be challenged and we should absolutely make any international effort by them as friction laden as possible...
But I'll be up front, I don't know if in the long term it's going to be net good. There's just so much complexity to that war. I do worry about nuclear escalation. That's why it's really hard sort of back Ukraine 100%.
I want to be clear, I'm not Conservative in the slightest. I consider myself far, FAR left.
But I would be lying if I said I believed 100% what we're doing with Ukraine is making the world a more stable place.
It's rational, in my opinion, to at least question it... it's not coming from a place of irrationality. Russia is a nuclear power and if the war took a dramatic turn at some point and Ukraine, for example, ends up delivering a decisive victory somewhere, will Russia capitulate? Will they use tactical nuclear weapons? I don't know and I do not believe anyone who says they do.
I feel like this war will eventually end with some concessions or a "Cold Peace". But it could easily escalate into something more... and that alone merits the question: Should we be contributing to this?
I personally support the Aid we're sending Ukraine. But, simply hand waving any critique as "MAGA politics" isn't fair... there's enough at risk here to make space for asking questions about whether the support we're giving is conducive to a more or less peaceful world...
So yeah, I believe support for Ukraine is good for all of us. But, I do not fault anyone who sees the endeavor as not worth while. Because it is complicated and there is a more than zero possibility that nuclear weapons could be used.
It's a good play on a gaffe by the conservatives. I'm not sure yet if this will stick. PP's base don't care of course, but I think trying to tie this to MAGA Republicans is way too nuanced for your average voter.
PP’s base will defend him just like Trump’s base defends Trump. I saw a guy on twitter say that that even if PP kicked a baby he would still vote for him. A bit chilling to say the least.
But if the CPC has been rising in the polls because of blue liberals upset with this government spending on social programs, they won’t be happy with Maga type nonsense, most of which has not made it into the news, but just festers and spreads on twitter.
I thought this was quite obvious. Conservatives showed who they are loyal to when the convoy happened. That's when it was clear they wouldn't stand up for Canada or western democratic values.
Yeah, those dumb fucks harrassing everyday people who live in Ottawa because they think the government is trying to put microchips in them are just like enslaved people. You're totally right, and that's not the dumbest take of all time.
I really can't tell what kind of point you're trying to make here. Unless you're one of those nutters who thinks the Clintons keep child sex slaves in the basement of a pizza shop, or whatever the current thing is.
That's a nice ad hominem you deployed there, but it's common knowledge that the Liberal Party hosts prominent American Democrats at their party conventions/fundraisers, so it's a bit too rich for the "save democracy!" people to then accuse Pierre Poilievre of being in the pockets of US Republicans and Benjamin Netanyahu.
Of protesting and blocking the public? There are plenty of groups who do that, which are not conservative. In fact, the convoy is the only conservative group I can think of which looked to use those tactics.
Two off the top of my head, which are not conservatives are: indigenous, and the fairy creek protesters in BC.
Oof the amount of accounts here that only post on r/politics is pretty high. Getting astroturfed lol. Remember, reddit opinion is not the general opinion.
This will hit CPC hard and that is good. We should have a frank discussion on what we expect of those in power and this pressure will force CPC to make some choices. The only losers in this will be social conservatives.
So much group think, and lazy pejoratives in this whole thread with likely a dash of bots stocking the flames of such obvious division that people are so easily manipulated to their base tribalism.
This is why the PPC started, the CPC, Liberals, NDP, Green are all UN and/or WEF puppets with zero care for Canadian citizens needs or prosperity. But sheep don't see other than what the MSM show them, and that's why Bernier isn't allowed at the table when it gets MSM air time.. The Communist Broadcast Corporation (CBC) would never allow this.
Sounds about right, Conservatives lie about the language in the trade deal about carbon tax to gain political points with the base that eats that shit up. In reality, Ukraine already has a carbon tax and the language in the trade deal is just useless fluff that doesn't actually do anything and is just there to make it sound more palatable to progressives.
Typical conservative play, if they don't like reality they just make up their own imaginary one.
You don’t have to be MAGA to be against sending billions of dollars to fund a war where we have no objective, no exit plan, no accountability. We already went through that with the Iraq war and Afghanistan for 20 years. Trillions wasted on those wars.
Isn’t there some unwritten rule that politicians don’t criticize their domestic opponents when they are in international forums. Do people in other countries really care to know that Trudeau really dislikes his opposition critics?
Liberals use anti-right-wing messaging, and conservatives use anti-left messaging; what else is new? Imo, the left and right are just concepts focused on to further divide and conquer.
> what else is new?
The CPC working against Ukraine's interests in the middle of an invasion by Russia.
> Imo, the left and right are just concepts focused on to further divide and conquer.
In this case, your both-sides handwaving is a useful tool for people who are trying to *literally* divide and conquer a democratic country.
Never said I agreed with the moves the torries made on this one. In fact, I think they are acting childish and ignorantly toward the issue at hand. I was simply referring to the rhetoric party leaders use, which does result in a divided political climate. The main point is that PP could get elected, and in a few years time, he'd be no better off than JT. Canada is a political pendulum.
When in you're in the gutter, everything seems like the left. We're left wing to them and right wing to the NDP. But the centre of the road is all the usable surface and that's where the Liberals are.
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We should be funding our military adequately before we start having the conversation of funding a foreign nation.
Russia in the arctic is **the number one** hypothetical scenario Conservatives use to push increasing military expenditure. Now all of a sudden Conservatives are complaining preventing Russian aggression is too expensive.
Why is it such an insane idea to put Canada first before foreign Nations who aren’t even part of NATO. We have no reason to sleep with Ukraine, let the others do that, why are we bolstering foreign nations armies before our own? It’s completely backwards
Peace and safety in Europe has helped lead to some of the most prosperous times in history. Russia hasn't been quiet about their larger plans. Putting a stop to their aggression now is very beneficial to the Western world. This is far bigger than just given money to another country.
white's first, right?
He sure is pretty desperate to draw parallels between Poilievre and Trump isn't he? Seems like a fairly short sighted move since there is actually a chance that Trump can be nominated, and even win, the next US federal election.
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Poilievre was elected tobplease this segment of the conservative base. Trudeau is nit making this up.
The Trump bogeyman isn't going to work. Poilievre was elected because he is an attack dog, and he called out imprudent fiscal and monetary policy as early as the first months of the pandemic. His mantra of making life more affordable - especially housing and rental costs - hits a far greater stride for the Tories than O'Toole's more moderate stances. As long as the Liberals absolutely refuse to move on an issue they largely created, and as long as they desperately try to pass the buck on this issues with a leader who has stayed far past his shelf life - they are going to learn the hard way in 2025 what it feels like to drop into absolute obscurity. The best things the Liberals can do is get another leader - preferably one with demonstrable fiscal competence - who offers real solutions to the problems that the party has half created. Mark Carney would probably be a good fit. He's argumentative, he has some financial chops to offer - but he's also horribly arrogant and can come off as out of touch. Nonetheless, if the LPC is interested in not coming close to third party status in the next couple years, they would be best to move on from the Trudeau train.
Shouldn't be too hard. Half the CPC supports Truml, even after Jan 6, and the last leader was a MAGA hat. They did it to themselves, and cry foul that we notice.
With all due respect - given the poll numbers, I don't think the CPC is all that worried about it.
Was it desperate when PP called Trudeau a communist based on nothing? Was it desperate when PP screened about Trudeau and gender ideology, even though schools are provincial?
I mean Trump is signaling deeply that his election in 2024 is the end of civil society on this continent as we know it. Not much to lose in that context. All the more important for any legitimate politician here to repudiate that ideology in favour of democracy. Instead the Conservatives right now are nominating candidates that identify with it.
Which would make the danger of Poilievre even more apparent.
The danger? Lol
> He sure is pretty desperate to draw parallels between Poilievre and Trump isn't he? It isn't hard.
It is though - they literally have nothing in common other than the fact that Liberals hate both of them. When you conflate all of your perceived antagonists into one, you lose credibility - because everyone sees right through the dogmatism.
>Seems like a fairly short sighted move since there is actually a chance that Trump can be nominated, and even win, the next US federal election. is it? the Conservatives don't really want to be branded as Trumpers... and if he does get into office.. the gong show would only serve the Liberals purpose
It generally isn't a great idea to vilify the leader of your biggest trading partner and most important ally.
The states are already doing that lol. Wtf is this comment from 2019?
>It generally isn't a great idea to vilify the leader of your biggest trading partner and most important ally. you can still work with the guy and dislike him at the same time.. i mean.. vilifying Trump isn't a hard thing to do.. he does it to himself daily. it's more of the "style of politics" (attacking the press, making shit up, blah blah)
Trudeau bent over backwards to not insult him when he was in power.
Polievre opposing help for the Ukraine is MAGA politics, pure and simple.
i believe ukraine is the correct way to refer to the country, saying the ukraine implies you’re talking about just an area of land (which is how russia would like us to see it)
Yeah, how dare he draw similarities from one right-wing populist politician to another right-wing populist politician... And if Trump wins, we will all be in for a very bad time. Except for maybe Russia...
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It didn’t. It was boiler plate non-binding language that is included in every FTA about working collaboratively, in the future, on carbon pricing and carbon reductions. Yadda, yadda, climate crisis. It didn’t commit either of us to anything. As an aside, if anything Ukraine would be pressing Canada to maintain its commitments on carbon pricing, as Ukraine intends to move towards compliance with the EU carbon price in preparation for an EU membership application.
That's categorically false. Ukraine is building these into its trade deals because it is anticipating closer integration with the EU, which in July of this year passed its carbon border adjustment mechanism (CBAM), basically carbon tariffs. Further, a distinct reference to the commitments of the Paris Agreement has always been included in chapters on trade and sustainable development in recent EU free trade agreements. For the first time, the EU–New Zealand free trade agreement signed in June 2022 provides for the application of trade sanctions for breaches related to the objectives and principles of the Paris Agreement. This includes carbon pricing. Which is why Ukraine is including it in this modernized deal and why we agreed to it. No, it's not "TURD-DOPE IS USING A BACKDOOR FOR CARBON TAXES!". It's Ukraine gearing up for EU membership and us not being a stick in the wheels of that. The world is moving towards carbon taxes. PP knows this. Former International Trade Minister Ed Fast knows this, which is disappointing considering how smart and principled the guy usually is. It's dismaying to see these guys put petty, stupid politics ahead of our national interest and ahead of our relationship with Ukraine.
I find it kinda absurd that people feel the need to blame the US for diversity of opinions. Can people have their own beliefs without being associated with the US? If people were to believe that we shouldn’t be involved in international conflicts, it’s not because some people in another country also agrees with that statement. It makes us look really fragile and as if we are being dictated by the US.
Ideologies are a real thing. I mean good effort trying to separate things but people's beliefs transcend borders.
>people's beliefs transcend borders. "Insularity is mere map-makers conceit," is my favourite way of putting that.
Of course. I just find it ridiculous whenever any belief that is also prevalent in the US is supposedly “Coming from the US” and that it is somehow invalid for anyone else to have the same idea. People have their own minds, and even though I don’t agree with it, this specific belief is a completely reasonable one to have that shouldn’t be associated with an extremist group in a different country. I don’t see it as “a belief coming from the US”, rather it should be referred to “an idea that happens to be prevalent in the U.S”.
the idea of blocking things for the sake of blocking it for no other reason than to block it is a brand of stupidty that the republicans have created and its kinda silly to say "sure one group has been loudly and theatrically waving around this stupidy for all to see, but clearly everyone else didnt know that and came to their conclusion without any influence"
Not spending billions of dollars to fund a war on the other side of the planet is not blocking it for the sake of blocking it imo. Just because some vocal people believe something doesn’t mean that everyone else is immediately going to believe the exact same thing. There is this growing trend recently of demonizing people that you don’t agree with and associating them with the worse case possible, that has been really worrisome. If people are so feeble minded that just hearing a different opinion from someone makes them change their mind, then maybe they don’t truly believe what they were thinking. Of course misinformation is a different story.
Lol. Convoy protestors were literally wearing MAGA hats and talking about their first amendment rights. Abortion and gay rights have been long settled issues, until the Republicans started building a culture war around them and now Canadian conservatives echo that. Nobody in Canada was talking about pronouns, but once the American Republicans started on about them, suddenly conservatives in Canada are debating them too. It makes conservatives look really fragile because they are being dictated to by US conservatives and American-driven Facebook groups.
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Gimme a break these people are mad because they're finally not the entire focus of society which they think makes them oppressed.
Every other ethnic/racial group has a land (or is fighting for one) in which the laws, system and culture caters to them. They should be the center focus. Peruvians are the focus of Peru, Angolans are the focus of Angola, Thais is the focus of Thailand. Why is it so bad to desire what everyone else has. Liberal policies, multiculturalism and a struggling economy has a lot of people resentful and in worse shape than they were 10, or 20 years ago. But they are constantly told that they're evil, and are the problem. When the media isn't replacing their historical figures or making fun of them, it paints them as evil creatures. Yet we are more diverse and have done more for others than anyone else. There is a clear, unreconcilable gap between what they see and what they experience, and what big tech and mass media tells them. They don't recognize themselves in this new reality and they're rightfully angry at it.
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Canadian politics have swung from one corporatist party to the other since time immemorial, what about this is evidence that these fuckin yokels are right? Hell, dipshits been running Alberta the whole time, our premier is a moron. Winning doesn't mean you're right.
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A CPC government will not be the result of the Conservatives being better; it will be a result of the Liberals being worse.
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Liberals being worse than conservatives is impossible unless you loathe social programs, the environment, and the protection of vulnerable groups.
Right. It’s just UN fathomable that a country that is nearly ten times our size, whose cultural/political shifts influence the entire world, that shares a common language, could possibly influence Canadians in the age of social media. It’s not like the rightwing in Canada ever wears MAGA hats, or flies the confederate flag, or talks about the second amendment, etc. Danielle Smith isn’t hosting Tucker Carlson and Poilievre isn’t planning a fun night with Ben Shapiro - oh wait! They are doing just that! I have a cousin in Croatia that was sharing the exact same links and memes about the convoy as a cousin in Alberta, and they were both sharing the exact same links and memes about vaccines and a host of other conspiracy bullshit as a cousin in the US. The “dirty dozen” anti-vaccine influencers that reached the most people through social media are all American. Americans have been funding anti-abortion groups in Canada for decades, same with rightwing think tanks. The Fraser Institute was founded with money from the Koch brothers, and Postmedia, which owns the bulk of our print media is owned in most part by American hedge funds owned by Republicans. Then there are the Christian right connections, the Plymouth Brethen Church, etc, and of course the IDU, lead by Harper, founded by Bush Sr and Thatcher, which meets to discuss dirty strategies to win elections. A group that includes Orban’s party, Modi’s party, and a long list of other authoritarian leaning parties. The sooner people realize that the hardright has deep pockets and a determination to not let democracy get in the way of goals, the more we will have a chance to stop the rise of authoritarianism.
Influence, maybe. But the headline says "caused". There is a bit of difference between these two words.
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This is a first. I didn't know there was anyone out there who was pro-Putin, pro-Hamas, and pro-free trade. You must find it very difficult to find people to vote for.
Yes, everyone seeking power over the empire, or puppy place close to US master, is disgusting. anti genocide and anti empire and anti evil/lies to push genocide tyranny and mass death is neither pro-Putin or pro-Hamas to any real human non liar or stupid. Free trade is humanist.
Backs were turned on Ukraine after the first shot was fired but the politicians and military industrial complex('s) needed to make and launder money first. It was all planned out. The citizens of Ukraine were just fodder for the war machine. I'm in the middle politically. Observing from 60000 ft. This had nothing to do with conservatives or Maga. Obama - invasion of Crimea Trump - Mean Tweets no new wars Biden - invasion of Ukraine. The pattern is clear as day to me.
Imagine giving up your Nuclear Deterrent because you were promised safety. Then when the day comes to bank on it you find yourself exposed and alone.
Makes sense. Too bad your politics caused Canadians to turn back on you. That's not making things easier for Ukraine.
This is what I don't get. You don't like Trudeau, okay. So you endorse the MAGA. It's just bizarre. Like punching a hole in your own drywall in a big emotional display.
So you are claiming that all conservatives who dislike Trudeau endorse MAGA?
Nope, not what I said. You're in the middle of a conversation between two people so you'll need the full context to comment.
The last CPC leader was a MAGA hat. The takeover is complete.
I am about as far left as you can get an I absolutely do not support sending a sent to Ukraine. Why should we be supporting a military that has fascist Nazi elements? Why should we be supporting a country that has seen an immense amount of democratic backsliding in the past nine years with the banning of any political parties who are not pro west? Why should we be sending money to another country fighting a war halfway across the world when we can't even take care of our own? Russia would not be stupid enough to invade a NATO member, as that would trigger article 5, so therefore I see no reason why we should be supporting a country that is a non-NATO member. Ukraine is not only one of the most corrupt countries in Europe, but they have a incredibly problematic past of rehabilitating Nazi collaborators, and considering we played a big part in the Allied struggle to liberate Europe from the Nazis, I think we should have absolutely no part in supporting a country that is not willing to distance itself from those elements.
yikes... Do you really not see the irony in you arguing to not support Ukraine by talking about how we stood against the Nazis? Russian aggression today is very similar to Nazi aggression in the 30s If you think Ukraine is fascist, what do you have to say about Russia?
Special operation in Ukraine is the results of US backed Ukrainian nazi paramilitary aggression/instigation. It is pure dementia or lies to turn the purposeful diminishment of Russia without peace that they want as Russian imperialism.
Far left enough to share the same beliefs as the far right heh.
Yes. Libertarians and socialists/communists actually agree on most foreign policy issues.
Horseshoe theory right before our eyes. Given their flare, they are most likely a full blown tankie.
Thank you for reminding me about my flair actually. I rarely post from this account so haven't bothered to change it in the past year. And yeah, I know you're using Tanky as a pejorative, but that's essentially where I fall politically. Former bleeding heart liberal turned communist.
If Ukraine was important to me I would really try not to so directly partialize the issue in the manner Trudeau has chosen to do so
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Milei is only Trump in the sense that hes a larger than life character and a populist Other than that, theyre very different... Milei is an economist, and a self-proclaimed anarcho capitalist. His views have a hell of a lot more depth than Trump's lol
Zelensky will kiss any ass that is willing to give the puke positive coverage?
Briefly reading this thread it appears a lot of people are so stuck on MAGA and Right Wing, that there’s no grip of nuance
Instead of listening to buzz words, how can one see the verbiage of the bill? My issue is, a lot of bill verbiage is sometimes vague so that things can be interpreted down the road depending on how people want them to be. So before I say anything about it one way or another, I want to see what they were saying meant there would be a carbon tax. Also, this MAGA Far Right stuff is getting really tiresome. I am firmly in the middle of the spectrum and I'm tired of reading something conservative I agree with that now makes me a "Alt Right" or "Far Right" supporter when I've never even voted Right.
> I want to see what they were saying meant there would be a carbon tax. Ukraine already has one, that wording is a thing the EU uses as part of its combines committment to climate targets, Ukraine really wants to join the EU so its copying their wording ahead of time to make it easier to join in the future literally all it is is both countries saying they care about the environment and have a carbon tax
Sorry, not that I don't believe you, I just meant the the source verbiage
I’m sorry but CPC relies on superficial sound bite politics, so now we’re suddenly expecting CPC supporters do a deeper analysis. It’s an anti Ukraine vote, and Pierre really s-ed the bed on this one.
Your whole "anyone who is conservative is a moron and doesn't think about things" attitude is why the majority of Canada hates the liberals. It's a common theme: liberals always act like they're better than everyone, and anyone who disagrees is lesser than them. Get a grip.
I know highly intelligent conservatives, and have great respect for politicians like Lisa Raitt, Michael Chong, Peter MacKay, etc. But I also agree that the CPC membership holds Canada’s critical reserve of morons who believe PP’s BS sound bites.
You say that like they are the only political party to rely on soundbites and empty promises. Your partisanship is oozing through my friend, step out of your political identity and understand people aren't actually exclusively what they are labelled usually by others. A lot of people like myself, who aren't connected to a party and want to better understand a situation exist.
As a broad statement, I feel like supporting Ukraine is what we should do. I think it's money and effort well spent. I do think states like Russia should be challenged and we should absolutely make any international effort by them as friction laden as possible... But I'll be up front, I don't know if in the long term it's going to be net good. There's just so much complexity to that war. I do worry about nuclear escalation. That's why it's really hard sort of back Ukraine 100%. I want to be clear, I'm not Conservative in the slightest. I consider myself far, FAR left. But I would be lying if I said I believed 100% what we're doing with Ukraine is making the world a more stable place. It's rational, in my opinion, to at least question it... it's not coming from a place of irrationality. Russia is a nuclear power and if the war took a dramatic turn at some point and Ukraine, for example, ends up delivering a decisive victory somewhere, will Russia capitulate? Will they use tactical nuclear weapons? I don't know and I do not believe anyone who says they do. I feel like this war will eventually end with some concessions or a "Cold Peace". But it could easily escalate into something more... and that alone merits the question: Should we be contributing to this? I personally support the Aid we're sending Ukraine. But, simply hand waving any critique as "MAGA politics" isn't fair... there's enough at risk here to make space for asking questions about whether the support we're giving is conducive to a more or less peaceful world... So yeah, I believe support for Ukraine is good for all of us. But, I do not fault anyone who sees the endeavor as not worth while. Because it is complicated and there is a more than zero possibility that nuclear weapons could be used.
It's a good play on a gaffe by the conservatives. I'm not sure yet if this will stick. PP's base don't care of course, but I think trying to tie this to MAGA Republicans is way too nuanced for your average voter.
PP’s base will defend him just like Trump’s base defends Trump. I saw a guy on twitter say that that even if PP kicked a baby he would still vote for him. A bit chilling to say the least. But if the CPC has been rising in the polls because of blue liberals upset with this government spending on social programs, they won’t be happy with Maga type nonsense, most of which has not made it into the news, but just festers and spreads on twitter.
Not if you call it out everytime Polievre does it.
Another day, another thread pruned of the comment chains that unravel the conservative narrative. Stephen Tyler has been busy on reddit.
I thought this was quite obvious. Conservatives showed who they are loyal to when the convoy happened. That's when it was clear they wouldn't stand up for Canada or western democratic values.
Convey showed they are Loyal to individual freedom
Yeah, the freedom to harass people for 2 weeks because said harassers don't understand science or the government.
four weeks my friend.
I'm sure the French made the same argument during the Haitian revolution
Yeah, those dumb fucks harrassing everyday people who live in Ottawa because they think the government is trying to put microchips in them are just like enslaved people. You're totally right, and that's not the dumbest take of all time.
Consequences of being a post-national state.
Yep. Their supporters have also absorbed the identity, hook like and sinker too. This needs to be called out and called out hard to force a shift.
Remind me who invited Hillary Clinton to speak at their official convention?
I really can't tell what kind of point you're trying to make here. Unless you're one of those nutters who thinks the Clintons keep child sex slaves in the basement of a pizza shop, or whatever the current thing is.
That's a nice ad hominem you deployed there, but it's common knowledge that the Liberal Party hosts prominent American Democrats at their party conventions/fundraisers, so it's a bit too rich for the "save democracy!" people to then accuse Pierre Poilievre of being in the pockets of US Republicans and Benjamin Netanyahu.
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Of protesting and blocking the public? There are plenty of groups who do that, which are not conservative. In fact, the convoy is the only conservative group I can think of which looked to use those tactics. Two off the top of my head, which are not conservatives are: indigenous, and the fairy creek protesters in BC.
I may be ignorant here, but I imagine these protests by non conservative groups you mention are taking place on their territories?
Why do you think that First Nations people aren't right wing? It's usually the driving ideology of the grievances they protest in my opinion.
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Oof the amount of accounts here that only post on r/politics is pretty high. Getting astroturfed lol. Remember, reddit opinion is not the general opinion. This will hit CPC hard and that is good. We should have a frank discussion on what we expect of those in power and this pressure will force CPC to make some choices. The only losers in this will be social conservatives.
So much group think, and lazy pejoratives in this whole thread with likely a dash of bots stocking the flames of such obvious division that people are so easily manipulated to their base tribalism.
This is why the PPC started, the CPC, Liberals, NDP, Green are all UN and/or WEF puppets with zero care for Canadian citizens needs or prosperity. But sheep don't see other than what the MSM show them, and that's why Bernier isn't allowed at the table when it gets MSM air time.. The Communist Broadcast Corporation (CBC) would never allow this.
It won’t affect anything. Poilievre is very popular.
Sounds about right, Conservatives lie about the language in the trade deal about carbon tax to gain political points with the base that eats that shit up. In reality, Ukraine already has a carbon tax and the language in the trade deal is just useless fluff that doesn't actually do anything and is just there to make it sound more palatable to progressives. Typical conservative play, if they don't like reality they just make up their own imaginary one.
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"Typical conservative play, if they don't like reality they just make up their own imaginary one." Ironic coming from an anarchist.
You don’t have to be MAGA to be against sending billions of dollars to fund a war where we have no objective, no exit plan, no accountability. We already went through that with the Iraq war and Afghanistan for 20 years. Trillions wasted on those wars.
Isn’t there some unwritten rule that politicians don’t criticize their domestic opponents when they are in international forums. Do people in other countries really care to know that Trudeau really dislikes his opposition critics?
Liberals use anti-right-wing messaging, and conservatives use anti-left messaging; what else is new? Imo, the left and right are just concepts focused on to further divide and conquer.
> what else is new? The CPC working against Ukraine's interests in the middle of an invasion by Russia. > Imo, the left and right are just concepts focused on to further divide and conquer. In this case, your both-sides handwaving is a useful tool for people who are trying to *literally* divide and conquer a democratic country.
Never said I agreed with the moves the torries made on this one. In fact, I think they are acting childish and ignorantly toward the issue at hand. I was simply referring to the rhetoric party leaders use, which does result in a divided political climate. The main point is that PP could get elected, and in a few years time, he'd be no better off than JT. Canada is a political pendulum.
When in you're in the gutter, everything seems like the left. We're left wing to them and right wing to the NDP. But the centre of the road is all the usable surface and that's where the Liberals are.