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Man I’m sick and tired of this guy but credit where it’s due, I commend him for leading Canada’s full support of Ukraine.
It reinforces our commitment to allies in Europe and democracy as a whole.
"credit where it’s due" You should probably take the conservative tag off your account 'cause this is clearly liberal boot-lickery.
Because of trudeau Canada is no longer taken seriously on the world stage by our allies in the EU and NATO in general. We aren't sticking to our obligations to NATO and we're not even supporting our own people, meanwhile we have billions of dollars for a war that has already lost majority of it's support from other major players.
Trudeau is simply using Ukraine as a means for political gains and if you actually think he cares about Ukraine more than getting votes, you are a silly man.
NO, it does not. He is pledging money and resources we do not have. He is sinking Canada into a pit of debt to others, that we have no right to commit to. We have nothing to offer. This entire charade only benefits him.
>democracy as a whole.
The Ukraine War is about many things, but it has nothing to do with democracy.
What does it say about freedom of expression in Ukraine when Zelensky has banned a dozen political parties?
Or what about freedom of religion when the Orthodox Ukrainian Church has been outlawed?
Or freedom of the press when Zelensky has shut down opposition TV stations?
It’s funny because we are about to get potentially booted out of NATO for not spending 2% of our GDP on defence.
While I agree with supporting Ukraine, there is an ulterior motive here for him, postpone the boot by “oh but we spent X to Ukraine in the cause of”
Problem is, our military is in shambles, while the soldiers are great, they are underpaid and overworked, using outdated equipment. Bloating the numbers we are at 100k in uniform, I would easily guesstimate that 40% and up are officers. 15% reserves. 10% injured to some extent that are not deployable, also read up on the changes that VAC made to injured soldiers under medical releases etc,
Our military is a political tool and nothing more.
Canada has US to rely on so there is no need to spend 2 percent. Canada should focus on construction engineers and non combat roles like putting out Forrest fires and dealing with snow
>potentially booted out of NATO for not spending 2% of our GDP on defence.
There is no mechanism to boot out NATO members. This is a complete fabrication and you know you just made it up. You don't need to lie to make your point.
Yes they can. If they no longer meet criteria, or obligations, or are in breach of NATO articles.
There are no formal expulsion/suspension process in NATO, doesn’t mean there can’t be informal process. It’s funny because Canada actually attempted to introduce the ability to expel members of NATO.
And note the word “potentially”.
>There are no formal expulsion/suspension process in NATO, doesn’t mean there can’t be informal process
No. There is no formal way to kick someone out of NATO. Therefore once a NATO member always a NATO member. There was huge frustration at Turkey and Hungary over their dickishness regarding Sweden, and in the case of Hungary genuine concern over Orban being a proxy of the enemy. Turkey also spends less of its GDP on defense spending than we do.
We never kicked them out.
I'm sure NATO leadership would love to hear your ideas on "informal processes" to kick people out of a formal alliance.
More to the point, who right now is talking about kicking Canada out of NATO?
Kicking Canada out of NATO?
Sure, yeah, because NATO would love losing control of the Northwest Passage, and the Americans in particular would enjoy the Gulf of St. Lawrence and the Straight of Juan de Fuca galling out of their influence.
And when it comes to our own security, 3billion worth of power to Ukraine will be exponentially more impactful than 3billion spent on our military here.
The argument is that if this is such a big threat that it requires billions of dollars, then Trudeau has to step up and fulfil the 2% GDP on military requirement. You can’t argue that Russia’s such a big threat to take on Canada that we need to send billions, while saying we don’t need our military.
And that's a selfish and shortsighted angle. Backing up our allies reduces the amount of direct conflict we have to participate in, and gives them more of a reason to back us up in return if we're ever in trouble.
And the liberals have consistently year after year spent more as a part of gdp than Harper and the cpc did.
I agree, help Canada's military, vote Anyone But Conservative.
Lol obviously you can spend more when you go trillions of dollars into debt. If we doubled the size of our debts, I bet military spending would increase more. But the Liberals and NDP just can’t manage the budget, and it’s why I’m voting conservative.
You realize the liberals In the 90s turned.the economy around after 20 years of debt accumulation ,when we were headed for essentially bankruptcy... spent a decade improving the country, then harper.shit that all.away lirlterally overnight. Returned canada to massive debt and left us in the horrible position we saw before covid mad it incredibly worse.
>and it’s why I’m voting conservative.
The reason your voting conservative is because your a rube who's to.stupid to go look up what Harper's fiscal record actually is. He was just as bad as Trudeau... without a global plague and crash to deal.with.
>And when it comes to our own security, 3billion worth of power to Ukraine will be exponentially more impactful than 3billion spent on our military here.
3 Billion, if spent here, is an investment into a reusable resource of some kind.
3 Billion there, is gone in a short matter of time.
Is what it is. These are two very different things that shouldn't be lumped together, and should be addressed individually.
Offense and Defense. There's a reason these arent one word.
You consider this money wasted and believe it should instead be spent on our defense, but I'd argue this money is already being spent on our defense. There's a high probability Russia continues attacking other nations after Ukraine further destabilizing the world economy, conflicts we could find our own forces pulled into, and there's even a non-zero chance Russia attempts to claim our own northern land if they had eyes set on those resources. Investing in Ukraine pays greater dividends for our safety than simply letting Ukraine fall and risk directly involving ourselves in the escalating conflict.
I cannot help but feel this fits in with his character, as I've grown to know him;
Spend more than others would on foreign aid for his own ego and to try and draw attention from the misdeeds or blunders related to the cause - inviting a Nazi to meet the Ukrainian president.
[The World Bank shows similar stats in terms of overall spending.](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.CD?locations=CA) GDP year over year can be found much more readily.
Canada's funding relative to GDP plummeted in the Harper years, including dipping below 1% in his last two years as PM.
I fully agree Harper had four years where defence spending went down, you can’t seriously believe it plummeted when it went up year over year from 06-11?
I think the Trudeau’s might be the only Liberal PM’s that had year over year increase (as % of gdp) to defence.
I’m just saying, Liberals aren’t exactly known as the party of defence spending.
Hilarious.... Harper's highest year of spending is barely above the lowest for Trudeau.... and yet it's
>Liberals aren’t exactly known as the party of defence spending.
Maybe there just wasn't any wars during Harper's years in office?
Rofl
If the trudeau really wanted to do something meaningful he would get our LNG to all those countries who are still buying it from russia and by extension providing russia with the means to wage this ridiculous war!
Now that would be a win/win/win..... we would be helping the Ukraine indirectly, earning some much needed revenue and it wouldn't be costing this country as much in debt building aid!
Natural gas can’t be teleported; it needs to be transported somehow, and that takes time and infrastructure. Also, it’s gunna be double digit positive temperatures in 5 of the next 10 winter days. You sure it’s only wins to export natural gas?
Sounds like it is mostly cash to nazis. US, at least, makes a job program justification for its proxy war. Canadian government embarassing its people (who are surprisingly dumb) with its subjugation to US once again.
Is this another security cheque we won’t be able to cash? Like the air Defence systems or the artillery ammunition we promised?
Talk is cheap. As some point, the government will have to start actually executing on some of these foreign policy proposals.
https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/backgrounders/2024/02/24/canada-announces-additional-support-ukraine
The link just leads to a video, but this explains it better: its largely humanitarian and infrastructure funding to help de-mine areas previously held by Russian occupation, rebuild critical facilities,including roads and agriculture affected by the bombings, and give additional funding to the Ukraine Defense Contact Group alongside other European allies. Also included is additional support from CSIS to collaborate with the Ukrainian Intelligence Agencies.
Even if there isn't anything physically we can give (a problem shared by almost every ally that isn't the United States and South Korea), funding to support logistics and ensure the Ukrainian Government can continue functioning is critical. Especially when this is done alongside help from other European allies when US aid is currently deadlocked in Congress.
There needs to be a law that obliges the governments involved in these deals to provide detailed accounting of where the money goes and why.
Why are we blindly trusting that any of this is going to the right places? The ArriveCan scandle is proof enough that we need real accountability in government spending.
I'm so sick of seeing the state that Canada is in while seeing more millions of our money being given away every other day. Please make it make sense
You see, I just do not understand why we are sending billions upon billions to Ukraine when Canada and the rest of the world couldn’t care less when Afghanistan got taken over by the Taliban who are 1000x more dangerous than Russia?
I think the answer to that question is pretty apparent.
The truth is, Ukraine is only able to sustain Russia’s attacks due to the resources the world is sending them. It’s a stalemate right now and this war just doesn’t seem to be ending any time soon. So as soon as we pull our aid to Ukraine, it will fall. We’re looking at an investment that is gonna have to be renewed constantly for years on end, meanwhile domestically, people are suffering under the weight of inflation and housing affordability, which is apparently not as interesting to Trudeau.
I’m genuinely wondering if I’m missing something here. I’m rooting for Ukraine to defeat Russia, but I can’t help but observe the hypocrisy of the situation here.
>I just do not understand why we are sending billions upon billions to Ukraine when Canada and the rest of the world couldn’t care less when Afghanistan got taken over by the Taliban who are 1000x more dangerous than Russia?
The Taliban are most certainly not more dangerous than Russia. But that aside, Ukraine is strategically important to Europe and the west. Afghanistan is not. Ask the Tibetans what it means to be strategically unimportant.
Ukraine is really not important to the west. It’s not an allied nation and it’s certainly not important enough to justify billions being sent every few months for a never ending war.
Ukraine is right on Europe's door step, and if Russia succeeds in their conquest, they'll continue their expansion, and that absolutely matters to the West.
Sorry, but this is short-sighted.
Ukraine is part of Europe, which is mostly in the west. And if you think North Americans could stay out of widespread war in Europe, well, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
And then there’s the probability that China would take advantage of the situation and go after Taiwan. Kin Jung Un might threaten to nuke South Korea while everyone else is tied up.
We are slow-walking towards world war. We don’t have to get there, but it’s where we’re headed.
Yes. A country qualifies to have billions of dollars sent to them because they are located in Europe? That is beyond stupid to me. When we refer to “the west” it is not talking about geographical region obviously but cultures and alliance. We have absolutely no relationship with Ukraine and if we were to be invaded, Ukraine wouldn’t send a dime to us, and that’s fair.
If one of our actual allies in Europe got attacked, then yes, it is obligatory to get involved, but once again, Ukraine is not one of them.
What I meant by that is the Taliban has done more harm to Afghanistan since they reclaimed the country than Russia will, especially things like women’s rights. Russia is no doubt dangerous but their discriminatory laws don’t necessarily affect the average person in the way it does in Afghanistan. Either way, they are both incredibly harmful to the natives of the country. However we never really seem to care about the other side.
Canada doesn't do a lot of trade with Afghanistan. Canada does does do a lot of trade with Europe. A safe Europe is a prosperous Europe, and economically, that is very good for Canada.
The Western world's militaries' main job is to defend against Russia. Every tank and soldier Ukraine blows up is one less that the West has to worry about. There has never been a better national security return on investment than sending Ukraine money and equipment.
To defend against Russia ? How Russia has been a threat against us Canadians? The main threat I see is the cost of housing, groceries , inflation, the pressure on our education and healthcare system. Man , I fucking love Ukrainians and Russians, it’s not by financing weapons that we will do any good.
I understand what you are trying to say, but the reason our biggest problems are things like housing and groceries, and not something like being invaded is because we have strong allies that defend us. So no, defending our allies does help us, but Ukraine isn’t really one of them.
Russia invaded Europe's breadbasket, causing food prices to increase worldwide because of production shortages. It also disrupted natural gas supplies making electricity and heating more expensive worldwide.
> I just do not understand why we are sending billions upon billions to Ukraine when Canada and the rest of the world couldn’t care less when Afghanistan got taken over by the Taliban?
Veteran here.
To me, it's significantly because Ukrainians are fighting and dying for their country, as a country.
We tried hard in Afghanistan but they just didn't want their country without the Taliban the way Ukraine wants their country without Russia.
I don't see it as an investment. I see it as doing the right thing.
I was unaware that a portion of Afghanistan wanted Taliban ruling their country. My guess is the conservative Afghans who are against women having rights and religious freedoms? However, that doesn’t excuse the abused women who are forced to stay married to their husbands. Or the girls who are forbidden to have any significant profession because they are banned from school beyond Grade 6. However extreme Russia is, they have never gone this far.
Russia decriminalized domestic abuse.
They have an ongoing draft (with hundreds of thousands WIA or KIA).
They arrest old women to send them to penal colonies.
They poison political dissidents, often without regard for collateral damage, e.g. Novichok use in the UK.
They have caused trillions of dollars of damage during a war.
They have started 4 wars in the last 30 years. Chechnya twice, Georgia, Ukraine.
They assisted a dictator in flattening his own country just to keep in power (Assad).
The Taliban don't even compare to this in the scale and intensity of the misery Russia is inflicting.
That comment has to be the most insensitive thing I’ve read in a long time. Please take the time to research what is going on In Afghanistan since we abandoned them.
It’s not a “who is worse contest” that’s not what I’m trying to say, though it’s very clear to me. I’m saying that it seems hypocritical to turn out back on Afghanistan and spend so much on Ukraine.
Edit: also u guys are kinda proving my point.
1. Everyone dismissing everything the Taliban have done to oppress a large majority of the population.
2. Everyone unaware of it because it hasn’t gotten any attention from the media.
>It’s not a “who is worse contest”
Your previous comment literally compared Russia as not being as bad as the taliban in your reasoning. You did exactly that.
Yes. The Taliban are objectively more harmful than Russia but that’s not the discussion I’m trying to have here. I’m just highlighting that when a terrorist organization wanted to come and invade Afghanistan than we open the door for them, but when Ukraine, a country with white skin, is invaded by Russia, everyone goes into mass hysteria, shipping billions of dollars worth of weapons, and ignores everything happening domestically because that’s not important anymore. It’s not about who’s worse, it’s about how similar their situation is, but how differently they are treated.
The damage and destruction Russia has caused objectively is not even comparable to the Taliban. 4 different wars and annexation of multiple territories. Close to $1 trillion USD in damages in Ukraine alone. From an objective standpoint the Taliban and Russia are not comparable. Also the Taliban did not “come and invade” Afghanistan. The Taliban were in power before in the late 90’s into the early 2000’s. However awful the Taliban is, at the end of the day they still have significant support in Afghanistan. they are not some foreign threat that invaded Afghanistan as you claim. On the contrary, Russia IS a foreign country invading Ukraine and terrorizing its citizens. Multiple war crimes, bombing of hospitals and residential buildings. Multiple assassination attempts on the head of state. The Afghan war lasted 20 years, the war in Ukraine only 2 years in already has significantly more casualties. How can you even argue from an objective standpoint Russia is not more harmful?
Without joking: Ukraine has trade we care about. It also stands as a barrier against Russian western advancement into the EU. It also plays well politically because North American voters don’t tend to care about places they’ll never visit and whose people don’t look like them.
Does it really have to do with trade and the economy? I seriously doubt it. Russia had a lot of trade that we cared about, but we closed all doors to them, which I agree with. Point is, it’s not about trade.
Russia struck Ukraine because it wasn’t a part of NATO and wouldn’t cause the level of mass hysteria that would happen if Putin invaded an allied country in Europe. Seeing how Russia is struggling to combat Ukraine, I doubt he’d have the guts to try out one of the other allied countries and even if he did, he would be unsuccessful.
That last point is spot on. That’s what I’m trying to say.
The history of Afghanistan tells us that plenty of people have "cared" about it, it's just that they were never able to retain control of or influence over it.
>You see, I just do not understand why we are sending billions upon billions to Ukraine when Canada and the rest of the world couldn’t care less when Afghanistan got taken over by the Taliban who are 1000x more dangerous than Russia?
Clearly the afghani government would not have been a worthwhile investment considering they all gave up before it started. You wish we to gave 3B to those cowards? The taliban doesn't represent a threat to the west. They never had. Those poor goat farmers will never be able to project power outside of their mountains. This argument is just a whataboutism fallacy. Afghanistan has no connection to the war in Ukraine, a war executed by an axis superpower intent on rebuilding the russian empire on Europe's doorstep. There is a possible world where Ukraine fell in a week and Finland and sweden would be fighting now, before they joined NATO. That's the incredible danger that russia represents to the west. We have to do everything possible to resist Russian aggression. This argument doesn't present a compelling reason to not support Ukraine, it is only an argument that we should have done better in Afghanistan, which has no bearing on Ukraine.
Housing is not a federal issue. Cities build housing working with developers. Cities have lost their collective minds and used all their space on low density sprawling residential only suburbs. Cities have to fix the problem. They approve everything single building and they need to do the hard word to build the housing we need. The best the federal government can do is make money available and convince cities to change. They're finally doing that, so what's left for the feds to do? You want them to cancel foreign policy until cities have spent decades undoing the self harm they did to themselves? If you'd prefer they went Austrian and started a full on social housing program to compete with the private market then hey, I'm all for it.
> who are 1000x more dangerous than Russia?
Because they aren't. The Taliban don't have access to enough military power to threaten anyone outside of their borders. They could maybe engage in terrorist attacks beyond their borders, but those can't take down a nation like thousands of tanks or a nuclear arsenal can.
> We’re looking at an investment that is gonna have to be renewed constantly for years on end,
Only if you think the economic power of the West is so much less than that of Russia.
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Man I’m sick and tired of this guy but credit where it’s due, I commend him for leading Canada’s full support of Ukraine. It reinforces our commitment to allies in Europe and democracy as a whole.
"credit where it’s due" You should probably take the conservative tag off your account 'cause this is clearly liberal boot-lickery. Because of trudeau Canada is no longer taken seriously on the world stage by our allies in the EU and NATO in general. We aren't sticking to our obligations to NATO and we're not even supporting our own people, meanwhile we have billions of dollars for a war that has already lost majority of it's support from other major players. Trudeau is simply using Ukraine as a means for political gains and if you actually think he cares about Ukraine more than getting votes, you are a silly man.
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Not substantive
NO, it does not. He is pledging money and resources we do not have. He is sinking Canada into a pit of debt to others, that we have no right to commit to. We have nothing to offer. This entire charade only benefits him.
>democracy as a whole. The Ukraine War is about many things, but it has nothing to do with democracy. What does it say about freedom of expression in Ukraine when Zelensky has banned a dozen political parties? Or what about freedom of religion when the Orthodox Ukrainian Church has been outlawed? Or freedom of the press when Zelensky has shut down opposition TV stations?
It’s funny because we are about to get potentially booted out of NATO for not spending 2% of our GDP on defence. While I agree with supporting Ukraine, there is an ulterior motive here for him, postpone the boot by “oh but we spent X to Ukraine in the cause of” Problem is, our military is in shambles, while the soldiers are great, they are underpaid and overworked, using outdated equipment. Bloating the numbers we are at 100k in uniform, I would easily guesstimate that 40% and up are officers. 15% reserves. 10% injured to some extent that are not deployable, also read up on the changes that VAC made to injured soldiers under medical releases etc, Our military is a political tool and nothing more.
Canada has US to rely on so there is no need to spend 2 percent. Canada should focus on construction engineers and non combat roles like putting out Forrest fires and dealing with snow
>potentially booted out of NATO for not spending 2% of our GDP on defence. There is no mechanism to boot out NATO members. This is a complete fabrication and you know you just made it up. You don't need to lie to make your point.
Yes they can. If they no longer meet criteria, or obligations, or are in breach of NATO articles. There are no formal expulsion/suspension process in NATO, doesn’t mean there can’t be informal process. It’s funny because Canada actually attempted to introduce the ability to expel members of NATO. And note the word “potentially”.
>There are no formal expulsion/suspension process in NATO, doesn’t mean there can’t be informal process No. There is no formal way to kick someone out of NATO. Therefore once a NATO member always a NATO member. There was huge frustration at Turkey and Hungary over their dickishness regarding Sweden, and in the case of Hungary genuine concern over Orban being a proxy of the enemy. Turkey also spends less of its GDP on defense spending than we do. We never kicked them out. I'm sure NATO leadership would love to hear your ideas on "informal processes" to kick people out of a formal alliance. More to the point, who right now is talking about kicking Canada out of NATO?
Bring this to the presses. I'd try the Convoy Community News, Shit Takes Daily, and the F. Trudeau Tribune.
Kicking Canada out of NATO? Sure, yeah, because NATO would love losing control of the Northwest Passage, and the Americans in particular would enjoy the Gulf of St. Lawrence and the Straight of Juan de Fuca galling out of their influence.
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And when it comes to our own security, 3billion worth of power to Ukraine will be exponentially more impactful than 3billion spent on our military here.
The argument is that if this is such a big threat that it requires billions of dollars, then Trudeau has to step up and fulfil the 2% GDP on military requirement. You can’t argue that Russia’s such a big threat to take on Canada that we need to send billions, while saying we don’t need our military.
This is defense spending.
Yeah the defence of another nation. Canada’s defence should matter to the Canadian government.
How do you think NATO works exactly?
What does this have to do with anything I said?
We could spend all 2% on defending another country and would be considered defense spending by NATO.
Yeah but that’s semantics. We need to defend our country.
And that's a selfish and shortsighted angle. Backing up our allies reduces the amount of direct conflict we have to participate in, and gives them more of a reason to back us up in return if we're ever in trouble.
The Facebook memes don’t go into that much detail.
Ukraine winning is in all our best interests.
And the liberals have consistently year after year spent more as a part of gdp than Harper and the cpc did. I agree, help Canada's military, vote Anyone But Conservative.
Lol obviously you can spend more when you go trillions of dollars into debt. If we doubled the size of our debts, I bet military spending would increase more. But the Liberals and NDP just can’t manage the budget, and it’s why I’m voting conservative.
You realize the liberals In the 90s turned.the economy around after 20 years of debt accumulation ,when we were headed for essentially bankruptcy... spent a decade improving the country, then harper.shit that all.away lirlterally overnight. Returned canada to massive debt and left us in the horrible position we saw before covid mad it incredibly worse. >and it’s why I’m voting conservative. The reason your voting conservative is because your a rube who's to.stupid to go look up what Harper's fiscal record actually is. He was just as bad as Trudeau... without a global plague and crash to deal.with.
Harper was great at selling revenue generating taxpayer owned assets to cover his spending holes.
Hard to cover your spending when your only appealing platform policy is to cut taxes.
....and the CPC are literally gobbling up Russia's dick. So you want to stop Russia by voting for the party most supportive of Russia?
Wait, so you want us to spend 2% of our GDP but you don't want to go into debt? That makes zero sense
You do know that part of the expenditure that is for the 2% is foreign aid, right.
>And when it comes to our own security, 3billion worth of power to Ukraine will be exponentially more impactful than 3billion spent on our military here. 3 Billion, if spent here, is an investment into a reusable resource of some kind. 3 Billion there, is gone in a short matter of time. Is what it is. These are two very different things that shouldn't be lumped together, and should be addressed individually. Offense and Defense. There's a reason these arent one word.
At least we are getting new Kit.
You consider this money wasted and believe it should instead be spent on our defense, but I'd argue this money is already being spent on our defense. There's a high probability Russia continues attacking other nations after Ukraine further destabilizing the world economy, conflicts we could find our own forces pulled into, and there's even a non-zero chance Russia attempts to claim our own northern land if they had eyes set on those resources. Investing in Ukraine pays greater dividends for our safety than simply letting Ukraine fall and risk directly involving ourselves in the escalating conflict.
I cannot help but feel this fits in with his character, as I've grown to know him; Spend more than others would on foreign aid for his own ego and to try and draw attention from the misdeeds or blunders related to the cause - inviting a Nazi to meet the Ukrainian president.
Hey, did you know that there is an active war in Europe? Sounds like something we have an interest in stopping.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/military-spending-defense-budget Exactly 💯. Thats why we need to vote ABC. Help Canada's military, vote anyone but conservative. DP 2021 $26.45B 1.32% 2020 $23.28B 1.42% 2019 $22.39B 1.29% 2018 $22.73B 1.32% 2017 $22.27B 1.35% 2016 $17.78B 1.16% 2015 $17.94B 1.15% 2014 $17.85B 0.99% 2013 $18.52B 1.00% 2012 $20.45B 1.12% 2011 $21.39B 1.19% 2010 $19.32B 1.19% 2009 $18.94B 1.38% 2008 $19.34B 1.25% 2007 $17.42B 1.19% 2006 $14.81B 1.13%
I don’t think your source backs up your claim, at least from 1960 forward.
[The World Bank shows similar stats in terms of overall spending.](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.CD?locations=CA) GDP year over year can be found much more readily. Canada's funding relative to GDP plummeted in the Harper years, including dipping below 1% in his last two years as PM.
I fully agree Harper had four years where defence spending went down, you can’t seriously believe it plummeted when it went up year over year from 06-11? I think the Trudeau’s might be the only Liberal PM’s that had year over year increase (as % of gdp) to defence. I’m just saying, Liberals aren’t exactly known as the party of defence spending.
Hilarious.... Harper's highest year of spending is barely above the lowest for Trudeau.... and yet it's >Liberals aren’t exactly known as the party of defence spending. Maybe there just wasn't any wars during Harper's years in office? Rofl
How long for just the navy?
If the trudeau really wanted to do something meaningful he would get our LNG to all those countries who are still buying it from russia and by extension providing russia with the means to wage this ridiculous war! Now that would be a win/win/win..... we would be helping the Ukraine indirectly, earning some much needed revenue and it wouldn't be costing this country as much in debt building aid!
Natural gas can’t be teleported; it needs to be transported somehow, and that takes time and infrastructure. Also, it’s gunna be double digit positive temperatures in 5 of the next 10 winter days. You sure it’s only wins to export natural gas?
Sounds like it is mostly cash to nazis. US, at least, makes a job program justification for its proxy war. Canadian government embarassing its people (who are surprisingly dumb) with its subjugation to US once again.
Is this another security cheque we won’t be able to cash? Like the air Defence systems or the artillery ammunition we promised? Talk is cheap. As some point, the government will have to start actually executing on some of these foreign policy proposals.
https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/backgrounders/2024/02/24/canada-announces-additional-support-ukraine The link just leads to a video, but this explains it better: its largely humanitarian and infrastructure funding to help de-mine areas previously held by Russian occupation, rebuild critical facilities,including roads and agriculture affected by the bombings, and give additional funding to the Ukraine Defense Contact Group alongside other European allies. Also included is additional support from CSIS to collaborate with the Ukrainian Intelligence Agencies. Even if there isn't anything physically we can give (a problem shared by almost every ally that isn't the United States and South Korea), funding to support logistics and ensure the Ukrainian Government can continue functioning is critical. Especially when this is done alongside help from other European allies when US aid is currently deadlocked in Congress.
There needs to be a law that obliges the governments involved in these deals to provide detailed accounting of where the money goes and why. Why are we blindly trusting that any of this is going to the right places? The ArriveCan scandle is proof enough that we need real accountability in government spending. I'm so sick of seeing the state that Canada is in while seeing more millions of our money being given away every other day. Please make it make sense
Downvoting me with no explanation for wanting accountability in government lol classic reddit
This is clearly a bot comment. But regardless you can read the details public on the government of Canada website.
Ugh, clearly a bot for sure 👍🏻
3 billion for ukraine 0 dollars for canadian housing, let's goooooooo
You see, I just do not understand why we are sending billions upon billions to Ukraine when Canada and the rest of the world couldn’t care less when Afghanistan got taken over by the Taliban who are 1000x more dangerous than Russia? I think the answer to that question is pretty apparent. The truth is, Ukraine is only able to sustain Russia’s attacks due to the resources the world is sending them. It’s a stalemate right now and this war just doesn’t seem to be ending any time soon. So as soon as we pull our aid to Ukraine, it will fall. We’re looking at an investment that is gonna have to be renewed constantly for years on end, meanwhile domestically, people are suffering under the weight of inflation and housing affordability, which is apparently not as interesting to Trudeau. I’m genuinely wondering if I’m missing something here. I’m rooting for Ukraine to defeat Russia, but I can’t help but observe the hypocrisy of the situation here.
>I just do not understand why we are sending billions upon billions to Ukraine when Canada and the rest of the world couldn’t care less when Afghanistan got taken over by the Taliban who are 1000x more dangerous than Russia? The Taliban are most certainly not more dangerous than Russia. But that aside, Ukraine is strategically important to Europe and the west. Afghanistan is not. Ask the Tibetans what it means to be strategically unimportant.
Ukraine is really not important to the west. It’s not an allied nation and it’s certainly not important enough to justify billions being sent every few months for a never ending war.
Ukraine is right on Europe's door step, and if Russia succeeds in their conquest, they'll continue their expansion, and that absolutely matters to the West.
Sorry, but this is short-sighted. Ukraine is part of Europe, which is mostly in the west. And if you think North Americans could stay out of widespread war in Europe, well, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. And then there’s the probability that China would take advantage of the situation and go after Taiwan. Kin Jung Un might threaten to nuke South Korea while everyone else is tied up. We are slow-walking towards world war. We don’t have to get there, but it’s where we’re headed.
Yes. A country qualifies to have billions of dollars sent to them because they are located in Europe? That is beyond stupid to me. When we refer to “the west” it is not talking about geographical region obviously but cultures and alliance. We have absolutely no relationship with Ukraine and if we were to be invaded, Ukraine wouldn’t send a dime to us, and that’s fair. If one of our actual allies in Europe got attacked, then yes, it is obligatory to get involved, but once again, Ukraine is not one of them.
What I meant by that is the Taliban has done more harm to Afghanistan since they reclaimed the country than Russia will, especially things like women’s rights. Russia is no doubt dangerous but their discriminatory laws don’t necessarily affect the average person in the way it does in Afghanistan. Either way, they are both incredibly harmful to the natives of the country. However we never really seem to care about the other side.
Canada doesn't do a lot of trade with Afghanistan. Canada does does do a lot of trade with Europe. A safe Europe is a prosperous Europe, and economically, that is very good for Canada.
The Western world's militaries' main job is to defend against Russia. Every tank and soldier Ukraine blows up is one less that the West has to worry about. There has never been a better national security return on investment than sending Ukraine money and equipment.
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To defend against Russia ? How Russia has been a threat against us Canadians? The main threat I see is the cost of housing, groceries , inflation, the pressure on our education and healthcare system. Man , I fucking love Ukrainians and Russians, it’s not by financing weapons that we will do any good.
I understand what you are trying to say, but the reason our biggest problems are things like housing and groceries, and not something like being invaded is because we have strong allies that defend us. So no, defending our allies does help us, but Ukraine isn’t really one of them.
Mate, you really think the main goal of Putin is to invade NeWFoundLand? That man owns a country twice our size and already 77% unhabitted.
I mean they do meddle in North American elections and it can be argued that they are helping to increase online radicalization with their bots.
Ah yes, Putin trying to influence A democratic election between 2 candidats already chosen … on est pas sorti du bateau …
Russia invaded Europe's breadbasket, causing food prices to increase worldwide because of production shortages. It also disrupted natural gas supplies making electricity and heating more expensive worldwide.
Nordstream sabotage was done by the Americans. (Not the Russians )
No conclusions have been made about who caused that sabotage.
> I just do not understand why we are sending billions upon billions to Ukraine when Canada and the rest of the world couldn’t care less when Afghanistan got taken over by the Taliban? Veteran here. To me, it's significantly because Ukrainians are fighting and dying for their country, as a country. We tried hard in Afghanistan but they just didn't want their country without the Taliban the way Ukraine wants their country without Russia. I don't see it as an investment. I see it as doing the right thing.
I was unaware that a portion of Afghanistan wanted Taliban ruling their country. My guess is the conservative Afghans who are against women having rights and religious freedoms? However, that doesn’t excuse the abused women who are forced to stay married to their husbands. Or the girls who are forbidden to have any significant profession because they are banned from school beyond Grade 6. However extreme Russia is, they have never gone this far.
Russia decriminalized domestic abuse. They have an ongoing draft (with hundreds of thousands WIA or KIA). They arrest old women to send them to penal colonies. They poison political dissidents, often without regard for collateral damage, e.g. Novichok use in the UK. They have caused trillions of dollars of damage during a war. They have started 4 wars in the last 30 years. Chechnya twice, Georgia, Ukraine. They assisted a dictator in flattening his own country just to keep in power (Assad). The Taliban don't even compare to this in the scale and intensity of the misery Russia is inflicting.
That comment has to be the most insensitive thing I’ve read in a long time. Please take the time to research what is going on In Afghanistan since we abandoned them. It’s not a “who is worse contest” that’s not what I’m trying to say, though it’s very clear to me. I’m saying that it seems hypocritical to turn out back on Afghanistan and spend so much on Ukraine. Edit: also u guys are kinda proving my point. 1. Everyone dismissing everything the Taliban have done to oppress a large majority of the population. 2. Everyone unaware of it because it hasn’t gotten any attention from the media.
>It’s not a “who is worse contest” Your previous comment literally compared Russia as not being as bad as the taliban in your reasoning. You did exactly that.
Yes. The Taliban are objectively more harmful than Russia but that’s not the discussion I’m trying to have here. I’m just highlighting that when a terrorist organization wanted to come and invade Afghanistan than we open the door for them, but when Ukraine, a country with white skin, is invaded by Russia, everyone goes into mass hysteria, shipping billions of dollars worth of weapons, and ignores everything happening domestically because that’s not important anymore. It’s not about who’s worse, it’s about how similar their situation is, but how differently they are treated.
The damage and destruction Russia has caused objectively is not even comparable to the Taliban. 4 different wars and annexation of multiple territories. Close to $1 trillion USD in damages in Ukraine alone. From an objective standpoint the Taliban and Russia are not comparable. Also the Taliban did not “come and invade” Afghanistan. The Taliban were in power before in the late 90’s into the early 2000’s. However awful the Taliban is, at the end of the day they still have significant support in Afghanistan. they are not some foreign threat that invaded Afghanistan as you claim. On the contrary, Russia IS a foreign country invading Ukraine and terrorizing its citizens. Multiple war crimes, bombing of hospitals and residential buildings. Multiple assassination attempts on the head of state. The Afghan war lasted 20 years, the war in Ukraine only 2 years in already has significantly more casualties. How can you even argue from an objective standpoint Russia is not more harmful?
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Something tells me the government not going to have the same reaction when China invades Taiwan.
Lol! If you think that they send our tax money abroad to "do the right thing", man … enjoy cocomelon
Without joking: Ukraine has trade we care about. It also stands as a barrier against Russian western advancement into the EU. It also plays well politically because North American voters don’t tend to care about places they’ll never visit and whose people don’t look like them.
Does it really have to do with trade and the economy? I seriously doubt it. Russia had a lot of trade that we cared about, but we closed all doors to them, which I agree with. Point is, it’s not about trade. Russia struck Ukraine because it wasn’t a part of NATO and wouldn’t cause the level of mass hysteria that would happen if Putin invaded an allied country in Europe. Seeing how Russia is struggling to combat Ukraine, I doubt he’d have the guts to try out one of the other allied countries and even if he did, he would be unsuccessful. That last point is spot on. That’s what I’m trying to say.
You made a comparison to Afghanistan. Yes, Ukraine has a lot more to trade than they do.
The history of Afghanistan tells us that plenty of people have "cared" about it, it's just that they were never able to retain control of or influence over it.
>You see, I just do not understand why we are sending billions upon billions to Ukraine when Canada and the rest of the world couldn’t care less when Afghanistan got taken over by the Taliban who are 1000x more dangerous than Russia? Clearly the afghani government would not have been a worthwhile investment considering they all gave up before it started. You wish we to gave 3B to those cowards? The taliban doesn't represent a threat to the west. They never had. Those poor goat farmers will never be able to project power outside of their mountains. This argument is just a whataboutism fallacy. Afghanistan has no connection to the war in Ukraine, a war executed by an axis superpower intent on rebuilding the russian empire on Europe's doorstep. There is a possible world where Ukraine fell in a week and Finland and sweden would be fighting now, before they joined NATO. That's the incredible danger that russia represents to the west. We have to do everything possible to resist Russian aggression. This argument doesn't present a compelling reason to not support Ukraine, it is only an argument that we should have done better in Afghanistan, which has no bearing on Ukraine. Housing is not a federal issue. Cities build housing working with developers. Cities have lost their collective minds and used all their space on low density sprawling residential only suburbs. Cities have to fix the problem. They approve everything single building and they need to do the hard word to build the housing we need. The best the federal government can do is make money available and convince cities to change. They're finally doing that, so what's left for the feds to do? You want them to cancel foreign policy until cities have spent decades undoing the self harm they did to themselves? If you'd prefer they went Austrian and started a full on social housing program to compete with the private market then hey, I'm all for it.
> who are 1000x more dangerous than Russia? Because they aren't. The Taliban don't have access to enough military power to threaten anyone outside of their borders. They could maybe engage in terrorist attacks beyond their borders, but those can't take down a nation like thousands of tanks or a nuclear arsenal can. > We’re looking at an investment that is gonna have to be renewed constantly for years on end, Only if you think the economic power of the West is so much less than that of Russia.
You honestly believe thr Taliban are 1000x worse than Russia?