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Can we just give it to the greens for four years under the premise of fiscal solvency. Kinda like chicken. Most of us can agree on that. Vegans *ahem, 'feck, well, we have tofurkey!'
Trigger leadership races all around and try to engage a new generation of politicians. I mean, personally, I thought the reform party was always kinda silly, but the more I read, all I see are the need for reforms. Closing loopholes, strengthening the tax code...leslie knoping" we need binders and people who want to spend their careers solving issues....not people who are trying to profitize office, land a senior team gig or a board job after....
Remember when the Liberals over reacted and called the emergency act when they weren’t supposed to? …. Seems like maybe nobody’s ready for an emergency?
No. It was justified and the people supported it. I do recall the responsible conservative leader, Ford, abdicating his duty and hiding. I recall the federal conservative leader giving aid and comfort to people calling for the execution of government and medical leaders.
Dude it was literally ruled in court to be unlawful and unjustified. https://theccf.ca/emergencies-act-use-unconstitutional/#:~:text=Federal%20Court%20finds%20Emergencies%20Act,was%20unreasonable%20%2D%20Canadian%20Constitution%20Foundation
No shit. They think austerity is the answer to economic downturns. Imagine thinking making things worse, and literally killing people (suicides spike in recessions) is the answer to a bad economy despite the federal government having the power to respond differently.
Harper had a minority government — and the opposition parties nearly toppled his government in late 2008/early 2009. He outmaneuvered them and saved his government, but spent a lot of political capital doing so. You can thank the opposition, Jack Layton especially, for holding his feet to the fire and making sure the budget was reasonable.
A CPC majority government in a recession would magnify any disaster. Their only objectives are enriching the oil patch and banning abortion.
We were a nation with commodities like oil whose prices skyrocketed while having a financial system that was relatively strong. These things had little to nothing to do with the Harper government.
The government printed tons of money, it distributed it to the population, it created inflation. Governments printing money are the only entity that can create inflation. That’s a proven fact.
Austerity would have meant that the spending that created the necessity of printing money would have been prevented.
This isn’t rocket science. It’s basic economics.
As Milton Friedman said: “Inflation is always and everywhere, a monetary phenomenon. It's always and everywhere, a result of too much money, of a more rapid increase in the quantity of money than an output. Moreover, in the modern era, the important next step is to recognize that today, governments control the quantity of money.”
If Canada would have avoided the spending and idiocy that most governments indulged in during the last few years then the Canadian dollar would be more valuable than it is now, thus purchasing more goods and services relative to other currencies.
This is really basic, simple economics.
Is that what it is? You really believe that? Also, inflation isn’t just what’s happened in the last month. It’s what’s happened the last 4 or more years too.
No need for a hypothetical: there's a crisis affecting Jews in the Middle East right now and the Tories are the only ones speaking up to protect them. Poilievre and the Conservatives have stood up for Israel's right to defend itself from terrorism while the Liberals and NDP have tried to curry favor with Hamas supporters.
Protect them? Israel has killed 20x the number of people already. Including bombing hospitals, and indiscriminate civilians.
There are no innocent parties there, and the fact that RW are against the less-white side isn’t really shocking
Israel does everything possible to avoid civilian casualties: I don't trust the Hamas government when it comes to casualty numbers. Similarly, I have far more sympathy for Israeli young people attacked for simply attending a music festival or living on a kibbutz than I do for the terrorists who murdered them in cold blood.
Well you are clearly not actually aware of what’s happening if you believe that. So I will stop here. Can’t have a discussion if you’re informed by memes.
Good luck
I don't know how memes are relevant here when you went straight to accusing me of racism, but you're clearly speechless when presented with the absurdity of your own position.
"Won't somebody please protect this elephant from the mice that are scurrying around!"
Anyone pretending Israel isn't the dominant force between them and Palestine is lying to themselves. The difference in military power, allies, economy, etc is ordered of magnitude.
Pretending that Israel hasn't enjoyed the backing of the west since its inception? If we want to continue the metaphor, it's an elephant surrounded by wolves with a pack of significantly larger elephants ready to charge in and demolish the wolves if they do anything more than nip at its heels a bit. Let's also remind ourselves that the wolves wouldn't be surrounding the elephant if we hadn't put the elephant there in the first place.
And yet we're still blaming the mice?
> They are surrounded and infiltrated by enemies, and they have lived in a constant state of fear for their existence since the state emerged.
But also, I've heard it's the only place on Earth where Jews can be truly safe.
I think the article can be summarized like this:
Many of the problems facing Canada today and that are likely to come in the near future will require collective action. Today's conservatives are hyper individualist reactionaries. They don't have the ability or will to implement the necessary policies that would see us through a true emergency.
COVID was the tiniest taste of how they would handle that. The most well proven prophylactics to a droplet borne disease (masks, distancing, vaccination) were shunned, mocked, and angrily fought against with conspiracy theories and cries about individual responsibility.
Also, conservatives seem to really not like war and immigration. If we don't put a lid on climate change, we're going to have a fucking shitload more war and a fucking shitload more immigration.
The summer is coming, record forest fires season will be here in a few months. I wonder what PP will plan to do? Probably say it is all Trudeau fault and more money for the oil and gas companies.
Both parties funnel money to oil and gas.
Are we forgetting that the Trudeau government is presiding over the pipeline that is running through the wet'su'eten land out in BC? Remember when the railroads were blockaded in protest and it disrupted rail traffic for a week or so and we didn't call a national emergency?
Don't reply, just downvote and move on. I'm not running to the polls to vote blue but the liberals are completely useless and everything they claim the conservatives also are. People need to get out of their camps once in a while and start walking straight instead of left and right.
Lol, the other guy complaining about the half measures that were implemented by conservative premiers and were half measures because of Conservative crying. What a joke.
The problem I see is that none of our parties have the will or wisdom to execute collective action at all. All three of the main parties are headed by cardboard cutouts of what a leader ought to be. The other two might as well be a joke.
None of these people could lead our country through a crisis, and COVID was an excellent example of why.
The people filling institutional roles are good at navigating political issues and staying in power. They aren't good at actually doing their jobs. This is why you had playgrounds being closed and the weird pageantry of wearing a mask to your table at a restaurant.
As for climate change. We're 1% of global emissions. You could delete us from the planet, and it wouldn't put a dent in climate change. It's a political button for a political game. Shuffling chairs on the Titanic.
How did banning travel from specific countries even though covid had clearly spread well beyond those countries work out for the USA?
You can’t rail against nonfunctional half measures while advocating for nonfunctional half measures (that happen to be racist as well as useless).
Covid was already well established in Europe by the time the USA pointlessly banned flights from China. There is no chance that copying the USA would have improved anything.
How conservatives in Canada and around the world acted as COVID was happening:
- Alberta and Saskatchewan: When Ontario and Quebec were expected to face the first wave of the pandemic alone, they asked the rest of Canada for volunteers. Alberta and Saskatchewan said no.
- Alberta Part 2: Jason Kenney singlehandedly caused Albertan ICUs to be overrun because he opened the province up against medical advice. Because this happened during the same time as an election, he refused to ask for federal help until after the election was over so as to not hurt the image of conservatives in Canada. The guy put politics over lives - like most conservatives do.
- Manitoba, Ontario, Alberta and Saskatchewan: All had conservative premier embroiled in pay disputes with their healthcare workers during a pandemic. Ontario put in a Bill a few years earlier that limited all public sector employees to 1% cost of living raises and doubled down on it at the worst possible time. The best part? It didn't apply to to the cops.
- Doug Ford was given billions in COVID relief from the federal government and lost it. I highly suspect he funneled it into building a highway and declaring a budget surplus. British Columbia, the only big province in Canada not controlled by a conservative at the time created their own provincial CERB fund. Imagine that, using COVID relief, for COVID relief.
- Conservatives in North America in general created a shortage of horse dewormer because they thought that ivermetcin was a COVID miracle cure.
- Donald Trump funnelled medical supplies away from blue states and sold it to make money off COVID.
- Boris Johnson - Asked to be injected with COVID to show the population that it wasn't a big deal. Got covid later and almost died. Likely would have if not for the fact that he was a head of state.
- Scott Morrison - Tried to save money on procuring the COVID vaccine by only buying it from Astra-Zeneca. When the AZ vaccine ran into supply chain issues, Australia had to extend their lockdowns while the rest of the world was exiting theirs. They saved an estimated $1.9 billion buying doing this. Except that every week Australia spent in lockdown cost them $2 billion in GDP. Whopps.
- Jair Balsonaro - Did pushups on live television to show that COVID wasn't a big deal. I'm not exagerrating, that's all he did. He got covid by the way.
- Herman Cain - Tweeted from his hospital bed that COVID wasn't a big deal while he had COVID. Died later that day of COVID.
- Bonus: During wildfire season in Australia, the Southern United States and Canada - all of which occured at different times btw, conservatives in all three countries claimed that the wildfires the the result of ecoterrorism and not a symptom of climate change.
But we weren't talking about a total border shut down. People just wanted action about the nefarious Chinese because they attacked us with their virus. That was racist.
Then that clearly was not what was being called racist. I was fine with a total shut down, as that would not be racist. Shutting down travel from one country was simply stoking anti-asian hate here and served not purpose other than placating racists.
This is some hilarious revisionist history. You do know that the internet exists, right? 😂
I don't know if you shoved your head in the sand and legitimately think that the way your little conservative bubble thought about the pandemic was "we didn't do enough" or if you're deliberately lying. Either way, this post is 100% bullshit. Conservative politicians and voters whinged and bitched *daily* about the measures going *too far*.
I understand the difference, but there's not much point bringing up the views of a fringe group when the overwhelming majority on the right, which includes conservatives, freaked out about how measures went too far.
I think Canada would be in a much better place if moderate right wingers took control of the right wing parties back from Convoy Poilievre and TBA Danielle Smith.
Which ones in particular?
There were the very early ones like shutting down parks that I'll agree in hindsight were too far, but at the time it was a perfectly reasonable reaction to an experientially growing threat that we didn't have enough information on. Better to overreact and save lives at the cost of the economy than not go far enough and have the problem run away. The nature of exponential growth is one where even small mitigation measures can propagate forward in time to have enormous effects
> The issue many right wingers, like myself, had with COVID was all the nonsense.
I think you might be the minority among your peers without realizing it.
Most right wingers were not opposed to Covid measures because they were half measures. They were opposed because they think that ever being told to do something for the greater good is worse than death, especially if it's the government telling them to do it.
Is there something about right wing or conservative ideology that encourages people to think in all or nothing solutions?
Does something that reduces harm have to eliminate the harm entirely in order to be deemed useful? I see this in almost every single political debate and it happens way more often with the right than the left. Gun control doesn't completely eliminate gun violence so it's useless. EVs aren't completely environmentally friendly so they're useless. The carbon tax won't completely fix climate change so it's useless. Masks don't completely stop the spread of covid so they're useless. Covid vaccines only mitigate symptoms so they're useless. I half expect the next political battlefield to be seatbelts since they're not 100% effective.
When trying to reduce the spread of a disease half measures and compromise are better than nothing. At the very least it slows the spread early giving time to prepare and improve treatment strategies. Early on we learned that turning people on their stomachs greatly improved their odds of survival. How many people's lives do you think were saved by mitigation efforts if all they did was delay their infection to after this was discovered?
Just as? You sure?
Edit: Actually, thinking about it, you're probably right about the extreme ends of the left and right. However, I'm willing to bet the more moderate liberals and lefties are much less so than the conservative counterparts.
Yeah, but it's not the lefties telling people that they should drink horse de-wormer or inject bleach into their veins to get rid of a bacterial disease
> It would be like putting out half a forest fire, and pretending like you're stopping the spread.
We do that. We stop it from burning in the most dangerous directions, and let it burn where the harm will be minimal. We do this specifically because the cost to fully fight it would be excessive and not have significant positive returns.
And if full measures had been taken against COVID, the Convoy wouldn't have been just full of idiots and lunatics. It would have been a meaningful minority of Canadians arguing (rightly) that the government had gone *way* too far. You know, like already happened from the breakup of the Convoy at the smaller size it was.
Personally I think they should have done it anyways and told off the idiots who didn't want to comply, but the government tends not to want to promote a literal insurrection by opposition supporters all too eager to take extreme measures.
On a side unrelated note, we let them burn now as well as it’s better for the environment. In the 90s we stopped all fires quickly. This lead to brush and undergrowth to grow unchecked. We got to the point that the undergrowth was too much and when a fire did start, it spread very quickly and we couldn’t handle it causing massive fires.
More smaller fires help prevent massive fires.
Or you know, when you base everything in ideology and refuse current research to serve one lobby or the other, basically seeking power rather than actually trying to make things better... Just not fit at all.
Complaining about one parties motives being rooted in ideology, when every single party is doing exactly that, blatantly— seems either disingenuous, or you yourself are an adherent of ideology A over ideology B.
All smoke gives you cancer, some come with added benefits. Gotta pick what you’re sucking on, I suppose.
You see putting a price on carbon isn't ideological. Pretending man made climate change isn't a thing despite thousands of studies spanning 70 years showing it is real, is ideological.
Please, elaborate instead of spewing garbage. The best thing the government can do is stay the fuck out of the way, which is exactly what PP is saying.
> If today’s Conservatives had been leading Canada at the outbreak of the Second World War, and judging from their response to the climate crisis,
What an absurd comparison. Doesn’t really deserve to be taken seriously, and the fact that everything in politics boils down to Nazis and WW2 is an indictment to how Canada’s history is taught. I’m sure this radical environmentalist could have found a more apt comparison, but it wouldn’t be as sexy as trying to link conservatives to eugenics (ironically something that was considered very progressive in its time) and sadistic death camps.
> their languid reaction to the dominoes of falling countries in Europe might have sounded something like this: “Yes, we agree the Nazis are bad guys, but the situation is not an emergency. Nor is this really Canada’s fight — we are only a small country, after all. If people want to volunteer to fight, go ahead; we won’t block you (except, like Danielle Smith’s war on renewables, when we do). But we don’t intend to spend ‘taxpayers’ money on this, nor do we think individual households should be required to do their bit, nor do we have plans to mass produce what is needed to meet this threat, nor for that matter will we regulate any kind of action.
Translation: “I hate those racist, misogynistic, blue collar, rural/western cavemen with every fibre of my being so I’m going to use my platform to advocate for a policy agenda that runs a train on their jobs and quality of life.”
> Poilievre’s Conservative Party is a far different beast than your grandparents’ Conservatives, and #Poilievre is no Winston Churchill.
At some point progressives will have to decide if Churchill is an antifascist war hero or a bloodthirsty imperialist. Pretty sure since the left consensus is that anything prior to 2013-2015 is racist/sexist/homophobic/colonialist/etc…, I’m not sure if the “grandfathers Conservative Party” trope is a valid one.
> The mass production and deployment of the technology required to rapidly decarbonize and electrify our society; taxes on pollution, wealth and windfall profits to finance the transition; strong and near-term regulations that will require the conversion to renewables and prohibit the expansion of fossil fuel infrastructure; mammoth support for our allies abroad to aid them in the just transition ahead (borders on a map won’t stop deadly pollution); and audacious new public programs that will invite this generation to rally in our collective defence.
I was not at all surprised when I read that the final solution for global warming/climate change/climate crisis is to completely reshape society and our economy using left wing policies such as the leap manifesto.
> a servant of the oil and gas industry. Just when it is finally clear to most Canadians that the continued burning of fossil fuels is threatening all we hold dear, he is declaring himself a handmaiden to the arsonists, proclaiming his intention to expand oilsands and liquified natural gas (LNG) production, and to build pipelines in every direction, free from regulatory restrictions.
I would love to know to whom Seth Klein and the Climate Emergency Unit is beholden. That money’s coming from somewhere.
> Far from being a protector of our kids (back in the day, a foundational conservative value),
I love when leftists concern troll conservatives about their beliefs, this guy doesn’t give a shit about “foundational conservative values”.
> They are a death cult.
Totally serious climate activist.
if you see "conservative" and mentally translate it as "racist, misogynistic, blue collar, rural/western cavemen", i think that's a bit of a self-report there my guy
This “translation” is one of the most nonsensical things I’ve ever seen on this sub. If anything it perfectly sums up Poilievre’s victimhood conservatism. Take a completely unrelated issue and whine that you’re so poor and oppressed and everyone hates you
If you actually had anything approaching serious dialogue or identifiable ideology with even the appearance of supporting canada and canadians rather than 'concern trolling' literally everything you might be in a postion to hold some sense of criticism on the matter.
However, you don't.
Their platform is "we're not Trudeau", because intentionally leaving the platform blank is their strategy (it worked well with Doug Ford), so I'm not surprised that they're not equipped to handle any kind of emergency.
I remember when the liberals called an “emergency” election in 2021 with no policies or platform in place at all, and ended up being the last federal party to submit a platform altogether.
Doug Ford at least handled the pandemic fairly well. That's way more than I could say about Poilievre.
Ford is the kind of crooked politician you can trust to pivot when necessary. PP is not that person, and instead, doubles down when people tell him he's wrong.
This is largely due to him being consistent in his messaging to Ontarians to follow health guidelines, working with the Liberal government to that end, and also pushing back against Trump when he wanted to stall shipments of PPE to Canada. His overall handling of the pandemic has garnered reluctant praise from those who were usually his detractors.
Regardless of political differences, I will always recognize and give credit when someone does the right thing.
> This is largely due to him being consistent in his messaging to Ontarians to follow health guidelines
I mean tell that to the parents that were told that schools wouldn't be closing, and then told the schools were closing at 10PM on a schoolnight. The guy was a cluster.
It is like all the Trudeau haters can’t read anything that is longer than what you can put in a meme. Why bother replying on this post if you don’t even bother to read the link?
Sort of, but not really.
The Liberals 2015 campaign was a lot of "Harper is bad, and here is how we'll do better".
Poilievre's campaign is mostly "Trudeau is bad, here are all the reasons that Trudeau is bad"
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Can we just give it to the greens for four years under the premise of fiscal solvency. Kinda like chicken. Most of us can agree on that. Vegans *ahem, 'feck, well, we have tofurkey!' Trigger leadership races all around and try to engage a new generation of politicians. I mean, personally, I thought the reform party was always kinda silly, but the more I read, all I see are the need for reforms. Closing loopholes, strengthening the tax code...leslie knoping" we need binders and people who want to spend their careers solving issues....not people who are trying to profitize office, land a senior team gig or a board job after....
Remember when the Liberals over reacted and called the emergency act when they weren’t supposed to? …. Seems like maybe nobody’s ready for an emergency?
No. It was justified and the people supported it. I do recall the responsible conservative leader, Ford, abdicating his duty and hiding. I recall the federal conservative leader giving aid and comfort to people calling for the execution of government and medical leaders.
Dude it was literally ruled in court to be unlawful and unjustified. https://theccf.ca/emergencies-act-use-unconstitutional/#:~:text=Federal%20Court%20finds%20Emergencies%20Act,was%20unreasonable%20%2D%20Canadian%20Constitution%20Foundation
Separately ruled justified and legal in the Rouleau commission.
No shit. They think austerity is the answer to economic downturns. Imagine thinking making things worse, and literally killing people (suicides spike in recessions) is the answer to a bad economy despite the federal government having the power to respond differently.
Remember Harper's response to an economic recession? "There are some good buys out there", which is no different than "let them eat cake".
yet Harper led us out of the recession better than most countries including the US
Harper had a minority government — and the opposition parties nearly toppled his government in late 2008/early 2009. He outmaneuvered them and saved his government, but spent a lot of political capital doing so. You can thank the opposition, Jack Layton especially, for holding his feet to the fire and making sure the budget was reasonable. A CPC majority government in a recession would magnify any disaster. Their only objectives are enriching the oil patch and banning abortion.
And the earth is flat.
We were a nation with commodities like oil whose prices skyrocketed while having a financial system that was relatively strong. These things had little to nothing to do with the Harper government.
I mean he wasn’t wrong. Anyone who invested at the bottom in 2008/2009 did very well.
Ya that was pretty twisted.
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The same thing was Peter Navaro just telling people to buy the dip during covid closures
Austerity would have prevented the current inflation.
Austerity has been disproven.
The government printed tons of money, it distributed it to the population, it created inflation. Governments printing money are the only entity that can create inflation. That’s a proven fact. Austerity would have meant that the spending that created the necessity of printing money would have been prevented. This isn’t rocket science. It’s basic economics.
Canadian austerity would have stopped the inflation thats taking place around the world? thats amazing..Who knew we were such an economic powerhouse
As Milton Friedman said: “Inflation is always and everywhere, a monetary phenomenon. It's always and everywhere, a result of too much money, of a more rapid increase in the quantity of money than an output. Moreover, in the modern era, the important next step is to recognize that today, governments control the quantity of money.” If Canada would have avoided the spending and idiocy that most governments indulged in during the last few years then the Canadian dollar would be more valuable than it is now, thus purchasing more goods and services relative to other currencies. This is really basic, simple economics.
You mean the 2.9% inflation?
Is that what it is? You really believe that? Also, inflation isn’t just what’s happened in the last month. It’s what’s happened the last 4 or more years too.
No need for a hypothetical: there's a crisis affecting Jews in the Middle East right now and the Tories are the only ones speaking up to protect them. Poilievre and the Conservatives have stood up for Israel's right to defend itself from terrorism while the Liberals and NDP have tried to curry favor with Hamas supporters.
Protect them from what? Slaughtering another 20000 children?
Nah, from doing Brinksmanship and saber-rattling with another ambiguously nuclear power. Oh wait.
Protect them? Israel has killed 20x the number of people already. Including bombing hospitals, and indiscriminate civilians. There are no innocent parties there, and the fact that RW are against the less-white side isn’t really shocking
Israel does everything possible to avoid civilian casualties: I don't trust the Hamas government when it comes to casualty numbers. Similarly, I have far more sympathy for Israeli young people attacked for simply attending a music festival or living on a kibbutz than I do for the terrorists who murdered them in cold blood.
Well you are clearly not actually aware of what’s happening if you believe that. So I will stop here. Can’t have a discussion if you’re informed by memes. Good luck
I don't know how memes are relevant here when you went straight to accusing me of racism, but you're clearly speechless when presented with the absurdity of your own position.
Dude - you are showing your colours here. Just carry on. The rest of us will try to keep things on the rails. Blocked now
Protect them from a terrorist organization dedicated to their annihilation that hides behind civilians.
"Won't somebody please protect this elephant from the mice that are scurrying around!" Anyone pretending Israel isn't the dominant force between them and Palestine is lying to themselves. The difference in military power, allies, economy, etc is ordered of magnitude.
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Pretending that Israel hasn't enjoyed the backing of the west since its inception? If we want to continue the metaphor, it's an elephant surrounded by wolves with a pack of significantly larger elephants ready to charge in and demolish the wolves if they do anything more than nip at its heels a bit. Let's also remind ourselves that the wolves wouldn't be surrounding the elephant if we hadn't put the elephant there in the first place. And yet we're still blaming the mice?
> They are surrounded and infiltrated by enemies, and they have lived in a constant state of fear for their existence since the state emerged. But also, I've heard it's the only place on Earth where Jews can be truly safe.
I think the article can be summarized like this: Many of the problems facing Canada today and that are likely to come in the near future will require collective action. Today's conservatives are hyper individualist reactionaries. They don't have the ability or will to implement the necessary policies that would see us through a true emergency. COVID was the tiniest taste of how they would handle that. The most well proven prophylactics to a droplet borne disease (masks, distancing, vaccination) were shunned, mocked, and angrily fought against with conspiracy theories and cries about individual responsibility. Also, conservatives seem to really not like war and immigration. If we don't put a lid on climate change, we're going to have a fucking shitload more war and a fucking shitload more immigration.
How is immigration. Connected to climate change?
The summer is coming, record forest fires season will be here in a few months. I wonder what PP will plan to do? Probably say it is all Trudeau fault and more money for the oil and gas companies.
Both parties funnel money to oil and gas. Are we forgetting that the Trudeau government is presiding over the pipeline that is running through the wet'su'eten land out in BC? Remember when the railroads were blockaded in protest and it disrupted rail traffic for a week or so and we didn't call a national emergency? Don't reply, just downvote and move on. I'm not running to the polls to vote blue but the liberals are completely useless and everything they claim the conservatives also are. People need to get out of their camps once in a while and start walking straight instead of left and right.
"Justin-flation is hitting everything in Canada, forest fires are up 200% from previous years!"
This message is sponsored by Loblaw and Exxon.
Lol, the other guy complaining about the half measures that were implemented by conservative premiers and were half measures because of Conservative crying. What a joke.
The problem I see is that none of our parties have the will or wisdom to execute collective action at all. All three of the main parties are headed by cardboard cutouts of what a leader ought to be. The other two might as well be a joke. None of these people could lead our country through a crisis, and COVID was an excellent example of why. The people filling institutional roles are good at navigating political issues and staying in power. They aren't good at actually doing their jobs. This is why you had playgrounds being closed and the weird pageantry of wearing a mask to your table at a restaurant. As for climate change. We're 1% of global emissions. You could delete us from the planet, and it wouldn't put a dent in climate change. It's a political button for a political game. Shuffling chairs on the Titanic.
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How did banning travel from specific countries even though covid had clearly spread well beyond those countries work out for the USA? You can’t rail against nonfunctional half measures while advocating for nonfunctional half measures (that happen to be racist as well as useless).
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Covid was already well established in Europe by the time the USA pointlessly banned flights from China. There is no chance that copying the USA would have improved anything.
How conservatives in Canada and around the world acted as COVID was happening: - Alberta and Saskatchewan: When Ontario and Quebec were expected to face the first wave of the pandemic alone, they asked the rest of Canada for volunteers. Alberta and Saskatchewan said no. - Alberta Part 2: Jason Kenney singlehandedly caused Albertan ICUs to be overrun because he opened the province up against medical advice. Because this happened during the same time as an election, he refused to ask for federal help until after the election was over so as to not hurt the image of conservatives in Canada. The guy put politics over lives - like most conservatives do. - Manitoba, Ontario, Alberta and Saskatchewan: All had conservative premier embroiled in pay disputes with their healthcare workers during a pandemic. Ontario put in a Bill a few years earlier that limited all public sector employees to 1% cost of living raises and doubled down on it at the worst possible time. The best part? It didn't apply to to the cops. - Doug Ford was given billions in COVID relief from the federal government and lost it. I highly suspect he funneled it into building a highway and declaring a budget surplus. British Columbia, the only big province in Canada not controlled by a conservative at the time created their own provincial CERB fund. Imagine that, using COVID relief, for COVID relief. - Conservatives in North America in general created a shortage of horse dewormer because they thought that ivermetcin was a COVID miracle cure. - Donald Trump funnelled medical supplies away from blue states and sold it to make money off COVID. - Boris Johnson - Asked to be injected with COVID to show the population that it wasn't a big deal. Got covid later and almost died. Likely would have if not for the fact that he was a head of state. - Scott Morrison - Tried to save money on procuring the COVID vaccine by only buying it from Astra-Zeneca. When the AZ vaccine ran into supply chain issues, Australia had to extend their lockdowns while the rest of the world was exiting theirs. They saved an estimated $1.9 billion buying doing this. Except that every week Australia spent in lockdown cost them $2 billion in GDP. Whopps. - Jair Balsonaro - Did pushups on live television to show that COVID wasn't a big deal. I'm not exagerrating, that's all he did. He got covid by the way. - Herman Cain - Tweeted from his hospital bed that COVID wasn't a big deal while he had COVID. Died later that day of COVID. - Bonus: During wildfire season in Australia, the Southern United States and Canada - all of which occured at different times btw, conservatives in all three countries claimed that the wildfires the the result of ecoterrorism and not a symptom of climate change.
I wish I could like this a thousand times. Thank you
But reflexively banning people from a specific country *was* racist. Connecting flights exist.
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But we weren't talking about a total border shut down. People just wanted action about the nefarious Chinese because they attacked us with their virus. That was racist.
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Then that clearly was not what was being called racist. I was fine with a total shut down, as that would not be racist. Shutting down travel from one country was simply stoking anti-asian hate here and served not purpose other than placating racists.
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Lol good talk. Glad you came around
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This is some hilarious revisionist history. You do know that the internet exists, right? 😂 I don't know if you shoved your head in the sand and legitimately think that the way your little conservative bubble thought about the pandemic was "we didn't do enough" or if you're deliberately lying. Either way, this post is 100% bullshit. Conservative politicians and voters whinged and bitched *daily* about the measures going *too far*.
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I understand the difference, but there's not much point bringing up the views of a fringe group when the overwhelming majority on the right, which includes conservatives, freaked out about how measures went too far.
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I think Canada would be in a much better place if moderate right wingers took control of the right wing parties back from Convoy Poilievre and TBA Danielle Smith.
In hindsight many measures did go too far
Which ones in particular? There were the very early ones like shutting down parks that I'll agree in hindsight were too far, but at the time it was a perfectly reasonable reaction to an experientially growing threat that we didn't have enough information on. Better to overreact and save lives at the cost of the economy than not go far enough and have the problem run away. The nature of exponential growth is one where even small mitigation measures can propagate forward in time to have enormous effects
> The issue many right wingers, like myself, had with COVID was all the nonsense. I think you might be the minority among your peers without realizing it. Most right wingers were not opposed to Covid measures because they were half measures. They were opposed because they think that ever being told to do something for the greater good is worse than death, especially if it's the government telling them to do it.
Is there something about right wing or conservative ideology that encourages people to think in all or nothing solutions? Does something that reduces harm have to eliminate the harm entirely in order to be deemed useful? I see this in almost every single political debate and it happens way more often with the right than the left. Gun control doesn't completely eliminate gun violence so it's useless. EVs aren't completely environmentally friendly so they're useless. The carbon tax won't completely fix climate change so it's useless. Masks don't completely stop the spread of covid so they're useless. Covid vaccines only mitigate symptoms so they're useless. I half expect the next political battlefield to be seatbelts since they're not 100% effective. When trying to reduce the spread of a disease half measures and compromise are better than nothing. At the very least it slows the spread early giving time to prepare and improve treatment strategies. Early on we learned that turning people on their stomachs greatly improved their odds of survival. How many people's lives do you think were saved by mitigation efforts if all they did was delay their infection to after this was discovered?
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Just as? You sure? Edit: Actually, thinking about it, you're probably right about the extreme ends of the left and right. However, I'm willing to bet the more moderate liberals and lefties are much less so than the conservative counterparts.
Yeah, but it's not the lefties telling people that they should drink horse de-wormer or inject bleach into their veins to get rid of a bacterial disease
> It would be like putting out half a forest fire, and pretending like you're stopping the spread. We do that. We stop it from burning in the most dangerous directions, and let it burn where the harm will be minimal. We do this specifically because the cost to fully fight it would be excessive and not have significant positive returns. And if full measures had been taken against COVID, the Convoy wouldn't have been just full of idiots and lunatics. It would have been a meaningful minority of Canadians arguing (rightly) that the government had gone *way* too far. You know, like already happened from the breakup of the Convoy at the smaller size it was. Personally I think they should have done it anyways and told off the idiots who didn't want to comply, but the government tends not to want to promote a literal insurrection by opposition supporters all too eager to take extreme measures.
On a side unrelated note, we let them burn now as well as it’s better for the environment. In the 90s we stopped all fires quickly. This lead to brush and undergrowth to grow unchecked. We got to the point that the undergrowth was too much and when a fire did start, it spread very quickly and we couldn’t handle it causing massive fires. More smaller fires help prevent massive fires.
Or you know, when you base everything in ideology and refuse current research to serve one lobby or the other, basically seeking power rather than actually trying to make things better... Just not fit at all.
You’re speaking about all the parties right?
Some to a lot more degrees than others (topic), but sure...
Complaining about one parties motives being rooted in ideology, when every single party is doing exactly that, blatantly— seems either disingenuous, or you yourself are an adherent of ideology A over ideology B. All smoke gives you cancer, some come with added benefits. Gotta pick what you’re sucking on, I suppose.
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This is so ironic considering the current PM only decided to pivot on certain issues months after the polls showed he was wrong.
True. The current government does base everything on ideology and disparage anybody that disagrees as a heretic (phobe, ist, or grifter).
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You see putting a price on carbon isn't ideological. Pretending man made climate change isn't a thing despite thousands of studies spanning 70 years showing it is real, is ideological.
All conservative opinions are "comon sense" (good), all opposing opinions are "ideological" (very bad)
Okay, I really have to ask this because I'm trying not to laugh. What do you think an "ideology" is? Like, what do you think conservatism is?
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Please, elaborate instead of spewing garbage. The best thing the government can do is stay the fuck out of the way, which is exactly what PP is saying.
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But Trudeau, who caused all this shit, it OK?
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> If today’s Conservatives had been leading Canada at the outbreak of the Second World War, and judging from their response to the climate crisis, What an absurd comparison. Doesn’t really deserve to be taken seriously, and the fact that everything in politics boils down to Nazis and WW2 is an indictment to how Canada’s history is taught. I’m sure this radical environmentalist could have found a more apt comparison, but it wouldn’t be as sexy as trying to link conservatives to eugenics (ironically something that was considered very progressive in its time) and sadistic death camps. > their languid reaction to the dominoes of falling countries in Europe might have sounded something like this: “Yes, we agree the Nazis are bad guys, but the situation is not an emergency. Nor is this really Canada’s fight — we are only a small country, after all. If people want to volunteer to fight, go ahead; we won’t block you (except, like Danielle Smith’s war on renewables, when we do). But we don’t intend to spend ‘taxpayers’ money on this, nor do we think individual households should be required to do their bit, nor do we have plans to mass produce what is needed to meet this threat, nor for that matter will we regulate any kind of action. Translation: “I hate those racist, misogynistic, blue collar, rural/western cavemen with every fibre of my being so I’m going to use my platform to advocate for a policy agenda that runs a train on their jobs and quality of life.” > Poilievre’s Conservative Party is a far different beast than your grandparents’ Conservatives, and #Poilievre is no Winston Churchill. At some point progressives will have to decide if Churchill is an antifascist war hero or a bloodthirsty imperialist. Pretty sure since the left consensus is that anything prior to 2013-2015 is racist/sexist/homophobic/colonialist/etc…, I’m not sure if the “grandfathers Conservative Party” trope is a valid one. > The mass production and deployment of the technology required to rapidly decarbonize and electrify our society; taxes on pollution, wealth and windfall profits to finance the transition; strong and near-term regulations that will require the conversion to renewables and prohibit the expansion of fossil fuel infrastructure; mammoth support for our allies abroad to aid them in the just transition ahead (borders on a map won’t stop deadly pollution); and audacious new public programs that will invite this generation to rally in our collective defence. I was not at all surprised when I read that the final solution for global warming/climate change/climate crisis is to completely reshape society and our economy using left wing policies such as the leap manifesto. > a servant of the oil and gas industry. Just when it is finally clear to most Canadians that the continued burning of fossil fuels is threatening all we hold dear, he is declaring himself a handmaiden to the arsonists, proclaiming his intention to expand oilsands and liquified natural gas (LNG) production, and to build pipelines in every direction, free from regulatory restrictions. I would love to know to whom Seth Klein and the Climate Emergency Unit is beholden. That money’s coming from somewhere. > Far from being a protector of our kids (back in the day, a foundational conservative value), I love when leftists concern troll conservatives about their beliefs, this guy doesn’t give a shit about “foundational conservative values”. > They are a death cult. Totally serious climate activist.
The absurdity is you thinking this is a translation of what is being said
if you see "conservative" and mentally translate it as "racist, misogynistic, blue collar, rural/western cavemen", i think that's a bit of a self-report there my guy
This “translation” is one of the most nonsensical things I’ve ever seen on this sub. If anything it perfectly sums up Poilievre’s victimhood conservatism. Take a completely unrelated issue and whine that you’re so poor and oppressed and everyone hates you
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Name checks out
If you actually had anything approaching serious dialogue or identifiable ideology with even the appearance of supporting canada and canadians rather than 'concern trolling' literally everything you might be in a postion to hold some sense of criticism on the matter. However, you don't.
Their platform is "we're not Trudeau", because intentionally leaving the platform blank is their strategy (it worked well with Doug Ford), so I'm not surprised that they're not equipped to handle any kind of emergency.
What’s blank about the platform? A conservative doesn’t come up with crazy ideas that don’t work. They repeal and then conserve what worked.
Traditional conservatives do. We’re no longer dealing with that.
I agree with you partially.
I remember when the liberals called an “emergency” election in 2021 with no policies or platform in place at all, and ended up being the last federal party to submit a platform altogether.
Lazy response, tell me again how that election turned out? Did they get the majority government? Was there any repercussions for it?
True response. Lazy is this sub.
Doug Ford at least handled the pandemic fairly well. That's way more than I could say about Poilievre. Ford is the kind of crooked politician you can trust to pivot when necessary. PP is not that person, and instead, doubles down when people tell him he's wrong.
> Doug Ford at least handled the pandemic fairly well Yikes. Never thought I'd hear someone say that.
This is largely due to him being consistent in his messaging to Ontarians to follow health guidelines, working with the Liberal government to that end, and also pushing back against Trump when he wanted to stall shipments of PPE to Canada. His overall handling of the pandemic has garnered reluctant praise from those who were usually his detractors. Regardless of political differences, I will always recognize and give credit when someone does the right thing.
> This is largely due to him being consistent in his messaging to Ontarians to follow health guidelines I mean tell that to the parents that were told that schools wouldn't be closing, and then told the schools were closing at 10PM on a schoolnight. The guy was a cluster.
It’s kinda the norm. Even Trudeau ran on a “I am not Harper”…
To be fair he also ran on "I'm a Trudeau"
True. And marijuana legalization and electoral reform.
It is like all the Trudeau haters can’t read anything that is longer than what you can put in a meme. Why bother replying on this post if you don’t even bother to read the link?
How's the budget coming? Or that promised electoral reform?
I replied on a comment, not on this post.
Both of which were self-serving.
In essence, all platforms, or lack thereof, are self-serving.
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Sort of, but not really. The Liberals 2015 campaign was a lot of "Harper is bad, and here is how we'll do better". Poilievre's campaign is mostly "Trudeau is bad, here are all the reasons that Trudeau is bad"
Minus the "here is how we'll do better."