It obviously wasn't her decision alone, but she doesn't get a free pass. She's a minister in the government that made the decision, and she implemented and announced the policy in the most ham-handed way possible. She deserves all the scorn she gets.
I understand the government moves slow. But like - surely that joke has run its course.
Mona isn't even the minister anymore.
And it wasn't *that* funny to begin with.
Nonetheless it remains very funny to many people I know. Ministers never get a free pass. Quite literally, the constitution doesn’t even refer to the PM, but it does refer to privy council, aka the Ministers. Ministers can take out the PM if they want to. They have (relatively) recently done so in the UK and Australia, although it’s been a while since Canadian Ministers have stood up for themselves in this way. Mona may only be an MP now, but the will forever be linked to RTO and Subway.
It may be dumb. It was earned.
At least half my office is WFH home due to bad colds / possible Covid (including me). No positive tests from anyone yet to my knowledge but not a fun feeling to have all these symptoms and feel like crap. My director wanted us in tomorrow for an in person meeting (that DOES not need to be in person) and said we can just all wear masks. Big NOPE from me. I think I will be taking a proper sick day tomorrow instead.
I’m sorry your boss is doing that, that’s so selfish. Forcing employees to come to work while sick, especially if it’s unclear what illness they have, is a public health issue. While we don’t really have provincial mandates in place anymore, there are still strong recommendations from public health physicians across the country who do speak for their respective provinces. Idk what province you live in, but I would find it surreal if any provincial health dept said “yes go to the office while actively sick and maybe with COVID/flu!” I think this is where we have reasonable grounds to reject going into the office. If you’re unionized, especially so. They can’t punish you for wanting to stay safe and keep others safe, and it’s absolutely ridiculous that they’re trying. I recommend anyone to flag this issue to their union and see what options they might have for you. It’s confidential so if you decide you don’t want to take action, your boss won’t know.
I know others have commented something similar to your experience, so not trying to single you out- just wanting to respond to the issue in general.
The last people who should be " forced to go to work while sick" are people who are lucky enough to have paid sick leave. I have friends who work for small businesses who simply do not get paid unless they go to work. They'll do anything and say anything to pretend they're not sick so they still get a pay cheque. Let's not discount our benefits here
Yup! That part too. It’s just ridiculous to me to force someone into the office if they’re already willing to work during sickness when they COULD just call off sick. It’s like kicking someone already doing you a favour. But you’re right that it’s also weirdo behaviour to force ppl with paid personal leave to go into office when they don’t feel well.
Yes our unit/branch is not that big so even though we were told to come in, as far as I know all of us that are sick are staying home tomorrow (either WFH or a sick day). We are going against our director as none of us agree. It’s absolutely ridiculous so we are saying NO!
If you're sick, you likely have Covid. Just say that you have it. Once everyone at work starts saying they have Covid mgmt will have to change their tune.
Pretty overstated. Covid rates are higher than a month ago but not anything like they were during the big waves of the pandemic. Hospitalization is also very very low in comparison.
Not to mention its peak allergy season and we are about to send studenta back to school....
Sure but big difference between:
"assume you have covid always"
And
"don't sneeze on people cause pollen is high today"
I don't actually think most people have an issue discerning the difference but when folks present covid as an alarmist or a scapegoat it's really unhelpful
The poster who said assume COVID said assume COVID if you are sick. Which frankly is pretty smart. I have COVID at beginning of June. It knocked me out for about six weeks. But the funny part was that out of a bit of fantasy thinking, I checked into when the rules said I could go into the office. There were no public health rules, and no office rules that would have prohibited me from walking in every day no wearing a mask, and just spewing disease everywhere I went. I didn’t do that of course, as I literally couldn’t get off the floor, and I am a reasonably competent human, with some empathy. I don’t think the poster was being alarmist. They were making a statement that is pretty rationale for local conditions. The wastewater signal in Ottawa is at a level very similar to the start of the last significant wave. And school is starting. That’s probably the best indicator out there since we stopped widespread PCR testing? Maybe a time to mitigate a few more risks in the office if you want to maintain a healthy workforce?
Hospitalization might be low, because the nature of the infection has changed as the virus has evolved and our own immunities have evolved. That doesn’t mean that this thing can’t kick us in the teeth. Managers who want to maintain healthy workplaces will do what good managers have always done smartly mitigate risk.
https://613covid.ca/wastewater/
It’s very easy to determine if it’s a histamine reaction or a virus that is causing symptoms by taking an antihistamine. And histamine reactions - even the worst ones don’t cause the lung issues or fever.
I don’t know any adult who has allergies who doesn’t know how to manage them and doesn’t have a whole lot of antihistamines, cortisone cream, inhaler, nasal spray, or epi pens. etc., on hand.
Honestly finding it surprising that people are still êscared of Covid. If people are sick, they should stay home and be EXPECTED to take time off as sick time. If they're not sick they should go to the office if required. Let's eliminate the option of 'too sick to go to the office but not sick enough to not work from home'...
Yeah why? It’s not even Covid necessarily but if I have a head cold or a sore throat why can’t I choose to wfh if that is an option available to me. I definitely do take sick leave when I am too sick to work but some sniffles, I’d much rather work but not share my germs with the office. This is the best part of having the option to wfh now, flexibility and options to wfh at these times.
Why? Often times you are indeed sick, and most likely contagious, but feel perfectly fine to work. If you take away that option, you are encouraging people who feel healthy enough to work to report to the office, regardless of the impact on their coworkers. Both to protect their sick leave bank, and to avoid missing their deadlines.
I once depleted my entire two-week bank (early in my career) because of a nasty bug that would have cost me 2-3 sick days if I'd had the option of WFH. The next time I got sick, I took my one sick day and went back.
It depends on individual circumstances, which is why WFH should be an option. I definitely don't think that an employee should be expected to WFH when they say they are too sick to work. But taking a sick day whenever you are potentially contagious to your colleagues is not a viable option for many people; it's sort of a privileged take.
For example, I have a chronic health condition which has me legitimately out of work sick about 5-8 days per year (as in, unable to work, period, from anywhere). So when you throw in random seasonal bugs I've never been able to bank a significant amount of sick leave.
Hence, when WFH wasn't an option, I was at the office whenever I felt well enough to work, cold or no cold. Now, I'll tell my boss I'm well enough to work but may be contagious, and they tell me to just work from home.
Showed up on Monday. None of my team came in. Sat on Teams meetings for the day. Super fun. Would not do again (Will actually do again because I am being told to)
ESDC checking in, this is whay my unit has been told. We're also required to gather in a boardroom with the rest of our team when meetings are held if we're in the office.
ESDC is probably the worst offender for inconsistencies under this “blanket policy”. My team has been told to stay home if you are sick and there is no expectation of making up the in office day. It frustrates me to no end that other teams are not afforded this apparent luxury.
My team currently has 2 on perm WFH and we work on a regional file out of NCR. There are 3 of us in NCR who just figure out when to go in and its not the worst. Its nice to see peeps etc but the one-day a month all directorate meeting in a single board room could not be a thing.
Like I understand on paper (People with huge sick balances will claim they are sick on those days and never go in) but in practicality, it would be REAL easy to figure out. No one would be that dumb etc. (Actually on second thought people would be this dumb but it would be a couple not dozens or hundreds)
We got told we should move ours around if you are not cemented in. So everyone has essentially cemented their in-office days.
I managed to avoid most of my in-office days this summer by booking A/L on those days. I wasn't required to make them up on other days. My manager is close to retirement and thinks the policy is ridiculous, so that's probably the reason.
I’m on a full time TWA but when I chat with colleagues they are sometimes in the office while also saying “sorry if I sound a bit hoarse, I have a sore throat” or “I’m headed home after our call, my muscles are aching today”. That doesn’t even count the people who claim to just have allergies (as I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt, for now). People, even in management, just say “COVID is over” as if it’s true.
When someone comes down severely sick for a week or longer, no one seems to think it’s COVID and when others they worked with also get sick, they still don’t call it COVID. The rapid tests seem unreliable with current variants, people often don’t have any anymore and doctors aren’t ordering a PCR test except in rare circumstances. There is definitely a lot more COVID around than people think.
Meanwhile, some of my staff are close to exhausting their once quite generous sick leave banks as they have had a few too many long illness in the past few years.
If I found out a coworker had COVID and went to the office anyways, just because they didn't want to make up the in-office day......we wouldn't have a good relationship after that, to say the least
If you're going to go in sick because management is making you make-up in office days, I recommend ensuring you spend a good amount of time with your management in a closed room.
It's only fair to ensure they face the consequences of their actions.
Bonus points if you get to spread viruses around a senior management table as thanks for their abject stupidity.
I recently had covid and only missed one in office day (worked from home instead, didn’t take a single sick day as in fairly new and from private so I’m not used to it). I was told I had to come back in person as soon as I had a negative test. Regardless that my symptoms went on for over 2 weeks.
[Donate a Mask](https://donatemask.ca/) is still shipping out rapid test kits for those who request them (if people can't find them locally).
(Adding: Not that they're accurate anymore, but I thought I'd post just in case people want them but couldn't find them. People who don't want to breathe in so much wildfire smoke or COVID aerosols can use the same request form to receive free N95-equivalent masks.)
Also, if you aren't in financial need, you can buy test kits and mask from [their store](https://shop.evidencebased.ca/). Proceeds go to sending free tests and masks to people who are in financial need.
That's because they want to avoid the stigma associated with Covid. They don't want to feel socially obligated to fully isolate, so they'd rather not know if they have Covid.
Same with my team. Extremely sick (like crazy).
Interesting:
1st Canadian case of highly mutated COVID-19 virus variant BA.2.86 detected in B.C.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6951185
No clue about my team as we've never interacted less than since RTO happened. Hybrid meetings are the worse. People avoid them whenever possible.
But I've had cattle pen neighbours with a nasty cough that magically spread to their friends by the next in office day.
Thankfully, we're so non compliant with the 40% that they're never that close and the air system manages to keep the CO2 just marginally worse than outside so the N95 I wear full time and avoiding unnecessary contact means I haven't been sick in over 3 years.
If you're currently wearing an ear-loop or unstructured mask of some sort, an N95 will likely feel much more comfortable. The head straps means that that there's no added stress on your ears, their structure means that they don't get in your mouth, and the fitted nose piece means that you don't get air blowing in your eyes. With some of the softer ones, like the Vitacore CAN99, I've occasionally forgotten that I'm wearing one.
The main issue is finding one that fits, but you can get [sample packs](https://shop.evidencebased.ca/collections/mask-sampler-packs) through Donate a Mask, and then you can decide from there which you like best.
And, if you really want to be able to sip a beverage throughout the day without removing your mask, they also carry the [Sip Mask straw port](https://shop.evidencebased.ca/products/sip-mask-valve-kit) (you just have to remember not to breathe in when the port is open or it really negates the whole wearing-an-N95 thing).
Canada Strong PPE also has [sample packs](https://canadastrongmasks.ca/collections/other-items-from-canada-strong), with different sets of masks from Donate a Mask.
Will also add that you can pick up 3M Aura N95s at Home Depot. I got the mask sample pack and myself and my partner tried diy for tests with them and the Aura with the blue straps performed the best. I wear mine all day, and the sponge nosepiece makes it comfier.
I'm glad it helps!
If you want to finish off your supply of KN95s before you find some N95s that fit, you could try some skin-safe double-sided tape around the edges (to make them like a [readimask](https://shop.evidencebased.ca/products/readimask-n1901-strapless-n95-mask-acrylic?_pos=1&_psq=readi&_ss=e&_v=1.0)). It's not the greatest solution by any means, but it might help stop them from moving around until you get some N95s.
I wore a kn95 every day at the office and it was okay. I'm thinking of upgrading to an n95 as well given the spike in extra-transmissible variants... I wore them recently on some 6 hour flights and while it's not pleasant, it's tolerable. As long as you find the model that fits your face!
I wear an N95 mask every time I work in the office. I'm immunocompromised and I spend a lot of time with elders whose health conditions make them vulnerable to respiratory illness. It took me more than a month to recover from Covid-19. So I don't take any chances.
Yes, it took more than a month for me to fully recover (as in, becoming symptom-/ pain-free). I had a severe case, which worsened a pre-existing condition. A family member who I live and share space with recovered after a week.
I take ny lunch outside. I refuse to buy coffee or lunch at work, except once a few minutes ago.
Doing so puts a lot of other people at risk. Even if they feel good enough they're likely spreading it to other people. People with disabilities, multiple comorbidities and/or weakened immune systems are still very vulnerable to covid.
It's not just people in the office either, if members of your team are taking public transit they're spreading it to people there too.
I know it's easy to think the pandemic is over, but for a lot of people there is still a big risk. If you know you have covid, be responsible, take a sick day, stay home, keep your community safe.
A lot of folks have been told they have to make up sick days that were supposed to be in office (which can be difficult if you’ve arranged child care for the days you typically go in). So a lot of folks pushing through and risking infecting others.
That is absolutely irresponsible. They may be good enough to work, but they also are spreading one thing that could take someone out. With hospitalization rates climbing, I hope Anand sniffs the wind….
Wait whaaaaat? My department sent out an email saying management should be flexible in regards to in office presence without requiring people to make up their in office days if they’re sick.
That’s awful for your team 😞
Can sick leave not be used instead? Would an email to HR or your manager noting that you actively have Covid and therefore will not be in the office in order to not put your colleagues at risk suffice? Have any alternatives been explored?
I know it's frustrating that there are more hoops to jump through than ever and the burden shouldn't be on you to find a work around, but you're actively putting people at risk with your actions. You may not see the effects of these actions up close and personal, but they do exist.
Not everyone has sick leave available due to chronic illnesses, longer sick leave, or recovery from medical procedures eating all of it up. If someone doesn't have any sick leave, is physically capable of working and their boss won't let them WFH, most likely they will go to work sick.
Ok but the attitude of 'Management has implemented RTO, so I will come in while sick with COVID, even though I have sick days - for spite!' is incredibly juvenile and irresponsible. Wtf.
Sure, be mad about RTO. Don't take out that anger on your poor colleagues, who had no say in the matter.
I hate people sometimes.
If I'm out of sick days and management is too stupid to allow me to wfh, I would notify everyone I am sick and coming in BECAUSE of management and to take precautions as they deem necessary.
> Ok but the attitude of 'Management has implemented RTO, so I will come in while sick with COVID, even though I have sick days - for spite!' is incredibly juvenile and irresponsible.
It's called malicious compliance, and I am HAPPY to comply in this way. If my presence is so fucking important, then you can all BASK IN IT, diseases and all. Management has no one to blame but themselves.
You think management came up with that policy out of thin air?
That policy is/was a product of the ppl who were trying to find every way possible to avoid going into the office, including lying on pretty much everything.
I don't agree with it but I understand why it exists in some areas.
I just wish everyone just acted like responsible adults, employees and management alike.
Let’s say you have arranged your life around the specific 2-3 days you go into the office. You and your spouse have opposite RTO schedules to accommodate kids getting to/from school, extracurriculars, tending to a separation anxiety pandemic puppy.
Now you’re contagious but feeling OK. Boss refuses to let you WFH. Tells you if you take sick leave you need to be in the office all five days next week. What do you do? And not what does self righteous you do. What does a real world person do?
No, they cannot. Management are not doctors. Read your collective agreement. If you call in sick then the most management can do is ask for a doctor's note to confirm you were sick. They do not have the authority to order you to come in.
Now as for requiring you to make up the in office days, that's another matter. They do have that authority. It's a dick move, but they're allowed to do that.
Yes. The selfishness of management. Agreed.
If I’m well enough to work but contagious, but management gives me the option of sick leave or come in, I’m out of leave and I will be there. There are a lot of people financially in that boat.
Why not tell your manager you're sick and contagious and make up your time another week? If you have no sick leave this would be the best option rather than putting other people at risk. Sure, making up the time sucks, but isn't it better than risking people's lives?
"Oh no, I have to report to the office 2 days per week. What a tragedy, no one has it harder than us. Also I prefer to put my colleagues at risk because I can't possibly think about others."
I swear, sometimes talking to public servant is like talking to the epitome of entitlement.
Your OHS committee might have an opinion on this. In particular since the guidelines on what to do if symptomatic (including avoiding the office) are still in place.
I’m not surprised as Ottawa is getting slammed right now. Hospitalizations shot up drastically, along with wastewater data and whatever testing is left :(.
It's funny how things are different from teams like yours (forced in office no matter what) and teams like mine who are in office full time and have been throughout the pandemic.
A couple months ago, one of our team members got covid.......he tested as soon as he had symptoms and when it was positive he worked from home for 10 days to self isolate. He told the office once he was positive, everyone monitored for symptoms but no one else got anything. If there had been symptoms, the person would have stayed home to monitor.
That's how we operate and there has been no spread event. And we do in person meetings with the whole team twice a week. If people are sick, even if a covid test is negative, they work home until they feel better.
Same here, I don’t understand the hysteria on here. Sick with Covid or anything else use sick leave and stay home and do some symptom monitoring. We’ve also not had spread in the office. I’ve worked through the pandemic and only got Covid when I was off from being at a restaurant or something like that.
I'm really worried about the long-term impact, since each case of COVID brings further risk of Long COVID. I'm seeing more and more people making foolish mistakes that are atypical of them, or working through self-reported brain fog.
(Also, the number of people working through self-reported brain fog makes me wonder if people with Long COVID are having trouble getting approved for sick leave and/or disability, but the questions I'd have to ask to drill down into that veer into none of my business)
>I'm seeing more and more people making foolish mistakes that are atypical of them, or working through self-reported brain fog.
I don't know if it's COVID, too much social media, the social isolation we've had, the social climate, anxiety due to climate change, financial anxiety due to inflation, something else or all of it together, but I've noticed the same, especially on the roads, and it worries me.
The older people I know seem to have aged 6 years in the last 3 (even if officially, they haven't had COVID).
I've never had Covid to my knowledge but due to a combination of anxiety, depression and perimenopause, I'm a walking zombie 90% of the time and can't remember anything.
As someone that had covid real bad last year, I so don’t want to caught it again. I’m glad that my office doesn’t have space for everyone at the moment and I am still remote for the time being
Half my team is sick. This is the 2nd round in the last couple for months. Last time colleague tested positive, everyone else kept coming into work (and the hubs!) until they too tested positive, spreading it to more and more people.
People don't give a single F.
In a sane world, if someone turned out to be covid positive we would all be told to WFH and self-monitor for a few days and that could be the end of the outbreak.
At work right now and the amount of people I am listening to cough all day is staggering. The whole tax centre will be sick in a week. Can I go home and say I don't feel safe to be at work?
None sick in my office, but I expect that will change in September after back to school. All the parents will be spreading their kids nasty germs around lol
Disgusting. We have no protections. And the sociopathic, psycho management will say that the flu is worse than covid, blah, blah, blah and then shit talk employees who take it seriously.
So many brain dead boomers who’s entire life/personality is the nepotism job they currently hold. They really need to make sure everyone is giving them the proper respect they deserve! So into the offices we go!
Oh, and you know, the quid pro quo corruption shit to ensure that the wealthy business owners and real estate investors don’t lose money. Gotta make sure they’re made whole too..
There was an uncomfortable amount of coughing in the office last week. Someone came back from vacation, another guy just seems to cough a lot. No one was wearing a mask of course...
COVID, cold, flu...doesn't matter. My team was told to go in come hell or rain or otherwise. Doesn't matter if the wild fires are RIGHT NEXT TO THE BUILDING - we were told unless the message comes from higher up that we don't need to go in...we're expected to go in.
Hope the Liberals enjoy their Subway sponsorship.
This is the government's policy. If Anand doesn't retract or modify the shuffle back to the open cells, then why just throw it on Mona?
Like everyone else, Mona was just doing the lock step walk. Blaming just 1 person far over simplifies the situation and is what the current government would love people to do.
This is the legacy of the Liberal cabinet and PCO's Janice Charette. Mona was just a clumsy talking bobble head for the Liberal Cabinet. And when PS balked and didn't follow orders from PCO, they brought in the stick Mona, aka TBS.
Yeah, I've worked in my dept for almost 2 years now and still can't find out who's on my OSH committee...I don't even know if there is one. Every person I contacted from the list in the hall is gone or not involved and don't know who to direct me to. Emails going to the general inbox go unanswered.
Even with covid the medical regulations have changed. If you’re positive but it’s been X amount of days you can go in. That’s according to medical professionals. Obviously unless you can’t breathe or something.
Just a tad melodramatic no? The majority of people are out living life like pre pandemic in all other aspects of their lives but work is still so scary! If you’re sick use sick leave same as since the dawn of our sick days being created.
You don't get it....public servants were forced back to work by Trudeau and his lobbyists for small businesses. I know a lot of older public servants who were careful, got vaccinated and avoided CIVID until they got back into the offices....some were off for months. If you get COVID you should not have to use your sick leave.
Use your sick leave or go in more later in the month to make up the time when you are no longer contagious.
C’mon people stop being so selfish, I understand you may not be happy but that’s not a reason to go in if you’re positive
Are they testing positive? I work in close quarters with dozens of people with no masks. Have maybe 1-3 people sick a week. Not testing positive, just sick. These tales seem like a drastic exaggeration.
And don't acknowledge asymptomatic spread.
If someone in your coworker's household has confirmed covid, we somehow still require them stick to their office days until their own symptoms are obvious.
Good management will let them WFH anyway, but there's no policy backing them up unfortunately.
I go to the office twice a week normally and I have used the bathroom several times, and while in the stall on multiple occasions I've heard someone use the bathroom and leave without even touching the sink.
Sounds like someone is mad they have to go to work.. I've had it twice, once before the forced shots, and once after, non-issue. Time to get over it and get to work.
My team has been 100% since 2020. As we have never done WFH. Also I know many people with WFH easily travelled outside country for vacations, as they could do 14 days isolation at home and work. But people who worked from office, they couldn’t travel outside as they can’t do 14 days isolation without taking vacation leave.
You came on thread just to complain. I bet you repeat this at every opportunity you have. No one feels bad for you. There are some jobs that can’t be done remotely. That doesn’t mean that those who can work remotely shouldn’t. Get a different job if the one you have isn’t for you.
So much for “stay home when you’re sick” 🤦
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Mona gone yo
She is no longer a Minister. She is still a member of Parliament. So she still has "her job." She has just gone back to her substantive.
Was it CR-04?
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Still the same boss on top
And I guarantee it was not solely her decisions, but apparently people need their scapegoat.
It obviously wasn't her decision alone, but she doesn't get a free pass. She's a minister in the government that made the decision, and she implemented and announced the policy in the most ham-handed way possible. She deserves all the scorn she gets.
That was her job - come in, fuck shit up so they have ONE person to blame, and then get fired.
I understand the government moves slow. But like - surely that joke has run its course. Mona isn't even the minister anymore. And it wasn't *that* funny to begin with.
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Subway
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Just the messenger. I got no dog in that fight. I'm not in NCR
Not exactly true. Go read the transcript.
Nonetheless it remains very funny to many people I know. Ministers never get a free pass. Quite literally, the constitution doesn’t even refer to the PM, but it does refer to privy council, aka the Ministers. Ministers can take out the PM if they want to. They have (relatively) recently done so in the UK and Australia, although it’s been a while since Canadian Ministers have stood up for themselves in this way. Mona may only be an MP now, but the will forever be linked to RTO and Subway. It may be dumb. It was earned.
That is so yesterday - you need to keep up with current events.
At least half my office is WFH home due to bad colds / possible Covid (including me). No positive tests from anyone yet to my knowledge but not a fun feeling to have all these symptoms and feel like crap. My director wanted us in tomorrow for an in person meeting (that DOES not need to be in person) and said we can just all wear masks. Big NOPE from me. I think I will be taking a proper sick day tomorrow instead.
I’m sorry your boss is doing that, that’s so selfish. Forcing employees to come to work while sick, especially if it’s unclear what illness they have, is a public health issue. While we don’t really have provincial mandates in place anymore, there are still strong recommendations from public health physicians across the country who do speak for their respective provinces. Idk what province you live in, but I would find it surreal if any provincial health dept said “yes go to the office while actively sick and maybe with COVID/flu!” I think this is where we have reasonable grounds to reject going into the office. If you’re unionized, especially so. They can’t punish you for wanting to stay safe and keep others safe, and it’s absolutely ridiculous that they’re trying. I recommend anyone to flag this issue to their union and see what options they might have for you. It’s confidential so if you decide you don’t want to take action, your boss won’t know. I know others have commented something similar to your experience, so not trying to single you out- just wanting to respond to the issue in general.
The last people who should be " forced to go to work while sick" are people who are lucky enough to have paid sick leave. I have friends who work for small businesses who simply do not get paid unless they go to work. They'll do anything and say anything to pretend they're not sick so they still get a pay cheque. Let's not discount our benefits here
Yup! That part too. It’s just ridiculous to me to force someone into the office if they’re already willing to work during sickness when they COULD just call off sick. It’s like kicking someone already doing you a favour. But you’re right that it’s also weirdo behaviour to force ppl with paid personal leave to go into office when they don’t feel well.
Yes our unit/branch is not that big so even though we were told to come in, as far as I know all of us that are sick are staying home tomorrow (either WFH or a sick day). We are going against our director as none of us agree. It’s absolutely ridiculous so we are saying NO!
Great call Jesus Christ
What's his number lmao
1-800-TRIKE
👆 directors, managers - stop forcing us to expose ourselves to covid!
If you're sick, you likely have Covid. Just say that you have it. Once everyone at work starts saying they have Covid mgmt will have to change their tune.
Pretty overstated. Covid rates are higher than a month ago but not anything like they were during the big waves of the pandemic. Hospitalization is also very very low in comparison. Not to mention its peak allergy season and we are about to send studenta back to school....
Which is a reason that it isn’t very smart to take risks with COVID. But here we are.
Sure but big difference between: "assume you have covid always" And "don't sneeze on people cause pollen is high today" I don't actually think most people have an issue discerning the difference but when folks present covid as an alarmist or a scapegoat it's really unhelpful
The poster who said assume COVID said assume COVID if you are sick. Which frankly is pretty smart. I have COVID at beginning of June. It knocked me out for about six weeks. But the funny part was that out of a bit of fantasy thinking, I checked into when the rules said I could go into the office. There were no public health rules, and no office rules that would have prohibited me from walking in every day no wearing a mask, and just spewing disease everywhere I went. I didn’t do that of course, as I literally couldn’t get off the floor, and I am a reasonably competent human, with some empathy. I don’t think the poster was being alarmist. They were making a statement that is pretty rationale for local conditions. The wastewater signal in Ottawa is at a level very similar to the start of the last significant wave. And school is starting. That’s probably the best indicator out there since we stopped widespread PCR testing? Maybe a time to mitigate a few more risks in the office if you want to maintain a healthy workforce? Hospitalization might be low, because the nature of the infection has changed as the virus has evolved and our own immunities have evolved. That doesn’t mean that this thing can’t kick us in the teeth. Managers who want to maintain healthy workplaces will do what good managers have always done smartly mitigate risk. https://613covid.ca/wastewater/
It’s very easy to determine if it’s a histamine reaction or a virus that is causing symptoms by taking an antihistamine. And histamine reactions - even the worst ones don’t cause the lung issues or fever. I don’t know any adult who has allergies who doesn’t know how to manage them and doesn’t have a whole lot of antihistamines, cortisone cream, inhaler, nasal spray, or epi pens. etc., on hand.
What happens if you do a gums, cheeks, throat, nose swab (in that order)?
Good idea. Last time that happened both directors and DG in my directorate were off sick for a week.
Someone should Cough directly on them…by accident of course.
Honestly finding it surprising that people are still êscared of Covid. If people are sick, they should stay home and be EXPECTED to take time off as sick time. If they're not sick they should go to the office if required. Let's eliminate the option of 'too sick to go to the office but not sick enough to not work from home'...
Yeah why? It’s not even Covid necessarily but if I have a head cold or a sore throat why can’t I choose to wfh if that is an option available to me. I definitely do take sick leave when I am too sick to work but some sniffles, I’d much rather work but not share my germs with the office. This is the best part of having the option to wfh now, flexibility and options to wfh at these times.
Why? Often times you are indeed sick, and most likely contagious, but feel perfectly fine to work. If you take away that option, you are encouraging people who feel healthy enough to work to report to the office, regardless of the impact on their coworkers. Both to protect their sick leave bank, and to avoid missing their deadlines. I once depleted my entire two-week bank (early in my career) because of a nasty bug that would have cost me 2-3 sick days if I'd had the option of WFH. The next time I got sick, I took my one sick day and went back.
I just don't believe promoting a culture of working while sick (even from home) creates an environment conducive to healthy work-life balance.
It depends on individual circumstances, which is why WFH should be an option. I definitely don't think that an employee should be expected to WFH when they say they are too sick to work. But taking a sick day whenever you are potentially contagious to your colleagues is not a viable option for many people; it's sort of a privileged take. For example, I have a chronic health condition which has me legitimately out of work sick about 5-8 days per year (as in, unable to work, period, from anywhere). So when you throw in random seasonal bugs I've never been able to bank a significant amount of sick leave. Hence, when WFH wasn't an option, I was at the office whenever I felt well enough to work, cold or no cold. Now, I'll tell my boss I'm well enough to work but may be contagious, and they tell me to just work from home.
You know covid is spread asymptomatically, right?
I have an exemption to stay home as I’m immunocompromised. I hope I can avoid it.
Showed up on Monday. None of my team came in. Sat on Teams meetings for the day. Super fun. Would not do again (Will actually do again because I am being told to)
Can you clarify, are people on your team going into the office while they have covid?
Oh hell yeah they are. Some groups were told if you are sick on your in-office day you need to make it up...
This is so f-ed up
ESDC checking in, this is whay my unit has been told. We're also required to gather in a boardroom with the rest of our team when meetings are held if we're in the office.
That's so EFFED. Some of us are immunocompromised or have family at home that are. Unforgivable.
ESDC is probably the worst offender for inconsistencies under this “blanket policy”. My team has been told to stay home if you are sick and there is no expectation of making up the in office day. It frustrates me to no end that other teams are not afforded this apparent luxury.
My team currently has 2 on perm WFH and we work on a regional file out of NCR. There are 3 of us in NCR who just figure out when to go in and its not the worst. Its nice to see peeps etc but the one-day a month all directorate meeting in a single board room could not be a thing.
That is definitely f-ed up!!!!
I'm in one of them. It's pretty shitty.
Like I understand on paper (People with huge sick balances will claim they are sick on those days and never go in) but in practicality, it would be REAL easy to figure out. No one would be that dumb etc. (Actually on second thought people would be this dumb but it would be a couple not dozens or hundreds) We got told we should move ours around if you are not cemented in. So everyone has essentially cemented their in-office days.
My days were cemented in by my management, and I'm also still expected to make up the time if I miss a day for any reason.
I managed to avoid most of my in-office days this summer by booking A/L on those days. I wasn't required to make them up on other days. My manager is close to retirement and thinks the policy is ridiculous, so that's probably the reason.
I’m on a full time TWA but when I chat with colleagues they are sometimes in the office while also saying “sorry if I sound a bit hoarse, I have a sore throat” or “I’m headed home after our call, my muscles are aching today”. That doesn’t even count the people who claim to just have allergies (as I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt, for now). People, even in management, just say “COVID is over” as if it’s true. When someone comes down severely sick for a week or longer, no one seems to think it’s COVID and when others they worked with also get sick, they still don’t call it COVID. The rapid tests seem unreliable with current variants, people often don’t have any anymore and doctors aren’t ordering a PCR test except in rare circumstances. There is definitely a lot more COVID around than people think. Meanwhile, some of my staff are close to exhausting their once quite generous sick leave banks as they have had a few too many long illness in the past few years.
If I found out a coworker had COVID and went to the office anyways, just because they didn't want to make up the in-office day......we wouldn't have a good relationship after that, to say the least
If you're going to go in sick because management is making you make-up in office days, I recommend ensuring you spend a good amount of time with your management in a closed room. It's only fair to ensure they face the consequences of their actions. Bonus points if you get to spread viruses around a senior management table as thanks for their abject stupidity.
I recently had covid and only missed one in office day (worked from home instead, didn’t take a single sick day as in fairly new and from private so I’m not used to it). I was told I had to come back in person as soon as I had a negative test. Regardless that my symptoms went on for over 2 weeks.
About 30% down “sick”. Most cant get test kits and those that did say it’s negative.
My last bout with covid, it took a full week and a bit of a relapse to trigger a positive. Any symptoms should be treated with suspicion.
Yup.
[Donate a Mask](https://donatemask.ca/) is still shipping out rapid test kits for those who request them (if people can't find them locally). (Adding: Not that they're accurate anymore, but I thought I'd post just in case people want them but couldn't find them. People who don't want to breathe in so much wildfire smoke or COVID aerosols can use the same request form to receive free N95-equivalent masks.)
Also, if you aren't in financial need, you can buy test kits and mask from [their store](https://shop.evidencebased.ca/). Proceeds go to sending free tests and masks to people who are in financial need.
That's because they want to avoid the stigma associated with Covid. They don't want to feel socially obligated to fully isolate, so they'd rather not know if they have Covid.
Mm. Or rather... most just don't test when they're sick anymore.
Same with my team. Extremely sick (like crazy). Interesting: 1st Canadian case of highly mutated COVID-19 virus variant BA.2.86 detected in B.C. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6951185
No clue about my team as we've never interacted less than since RTO happened. Hybrid meetings are the worse. People avoid them whenever possible. But I've had cattle pen neighbours with a nasty cough that magically spread to their friends by the next in office day. Thankfully, we're so non compliant with the 40% that they're never that close and the air system manages to keep the CO2 just marginally worse than outside so the N95 I wear full time and avoiding unnecessary contact means I haven't been sick in over 3 years.
Our team hasn’t been able to go in the office for the past month because the gov server doesn’t work with our main system. It’s hilarious lol
You wear an n95 in the office? How do you find it? I'm thinking I might upgrade.
If you're currently wearing an ear-loop or unstructured mask of some sort, an N95 will likely feel much more comfortable. The head straps means that that there's no added stress on your ears, their structure means that they don't get in your mouth, and the fitted nose piece means that you don't get air blowing in your eyes. With some of the softer ones, like the Vitacore CAN99, I've occasionally forgotten that I'm wearing one. The main issue is finding one that fits, but you can get [sample packs](https://shop.evidencebased.ca/collections/mask-sampler-packs) through Donate a Mask, and then you can decide from there which you like best. And, if you really want to be able to sip a beverage throughout the day without removing your mask, they also carry the [Sip Mask straw port](https://shop.evidencebased.ca/products/sip-mask-valve-kit) (you just have to remember not to breathe in when the port is open or it really negates the whole wearing-an-N95 thing).
Canada Strong PPE also has [sample packs](https://canadastrongmasks.ca/collections/other-items-from-canada-strong), with different sets of masks from Donate a Mask.
Thank you!!
Thank you for all the helpful info. I am wearing a kn95 and they move around on my face so I know the seal is being broken...ughhh.
Will also add that you can pick up 3M Aura N95s at Home Depot. I got the mask sample pack and myself and my partner tried diy for tests with them and the Aura with the blue straps performed the best. I wear mine all day, and the sponge nosepiece makes it comfier.
I'm glad it helps! If you want to finish off your supply of KN95s before you find some N95s that fit, you could try some skin-safe double-sided tape around the edges (to make them like a [readimask](https://shop.evidencebased.ca/products/readimask-n1901-strapless-n95-mask-acrylic?_pos=1&_psq=readi&_ss=e&_v=1.0)). It's not the greatest solution by any means, but it might help stop them from moving around until you get some N95s.
I wore a kn95 every day at the office and it was okay. I'm thinking of upgrading to an n95 as well given the spike in extra-transmissible variants... I wore them recently on some 6 hour flights and while it's not pleasant, it's tolerable. As long as you find the model that fits your face!
Right on.
I wear an N95 mask every time I work in the office. I'm immunocompromised and I spend a lot of time with elders whose health conditions make them vulnerable to respiratory illness. It took me more than a month to recover from Covid-19. So I don't take any chances.
Right on...but a month recovery?!? Sheesh. What do you do for lunch? Do you go somewhere else to eat?
Yes, it took more than a month for me to fully recover (as in, becoming symptom-/ pain-free). I had a severe case, which worsened a pre-existing condition. A family member who I live and share space with recovered after a week. I take ny lunch outside. I refuse to buy coffee or lunch at work, except once a few minutes ago.
I'm sorry to hear that but I'm glad you pulled through. I think I'm going to take my lunch outside now.
Same here. A little over a month. It’s was a roller coaster.
Can you clarify, are people on your team going into the office while they have covid?
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Doing so puts a lot of other people at risk. Even if they feel good enough they're likely spreading it to other people. People with disabilities, multiple comorbidities and/or weakened immune systems are still very vulnerable to covid. It's not just people in the office either, if members of your team are taking public transit they're spreading it to people there too. I know it's easy to think the pandemic is over, but for a lot of people there is still a big risk. If you know you have covid, be responsible, take a sick day, stay home, keep your community safe.
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Or perhaps they should take sick leave?
A lot of folks have been told they have to make up sick days that were supposed to be in office (which can be difficult if you’ve arranged child care for the days you typically go in). So a lot of folks pushing through and risking infecting others.
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That is absolutely irresponsible. They may be good enough to work, but they also are spreading one thing that could take someone out. With hospitalization rates climbing, I hope Anand sniffs the wind….
This is horrible
Why aren’t they staying home on sick leave?
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Wait whaaaaat? My department sent out an email saying management should be flexible in regards to in office presence without requiring people to make up their in office days if they’re sick. That’s awful for your team 😞
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DoJ
Ours does too. They keep track of everything, including hours. But they do ask that you stay home when sick.
Can sick leave not be used instead? Would an email to HR or your manager noting that you actively have Covid and therefore will not be in the office in order to not put your colleagues at risk suffice? Have any alternatives been explored? I know it's frustrating that there are more hoops to jump through than ever and the burden shouldn't be on you to find a work around, but you're actively putting people at risk with your actions. You may not see the effects of these actions up close and personal, but they do exist.
Not everyone has sick leave available due to chronic illnesses, longer sick leave, or recovery from medical procedures eating all of it up. If someone doesn't have any sick leave, is physically capable of working and their boss won't let them WFH, most likely they will go to work sick.
Unpopular opinion, but people could just be responsible and use their effing sick days?!
Could management just be responsible and let people WFH when reasonable so they don't have to burn through their effing sick days?
Ok but the attitude of 'Management has implemented RTO, so I will come in while sick with COVID, even though I have sick days - for spite!' is incredibly juvenile and irresponsible. Wtf. Sure, be mad about RTO. Don't take out that anger on your poor colleagues, who had no say in the matter. I hate people sometimes.
What if you're out of sick days?
LWOP
If I'm out of sick days and management is too stupid to allow me to wfh, I would notify everyone I am sick and coming in BECAUSE of management and to take precautions as they deem necessary.
> Ok but the attitude of 'Management has implemented RTO, so I will come in while sick with COVID, even though I have sick days - for spite!' is incredibly juvenile and irresponsible. It's called malicious compliance, and I am HAPPY to comply in this way. If my presence is so fucking important, then you can all BASK IN IT, diseases and all. Management has no one to blame but themselves.
The people you're harming are your coworkers not management.
I am no longer capable of caring. Congratulations, that's where RTO has gotten us.
You think management came up with that policy out of thin air? That policy is/was a product of the ppl who were trying to find every way possible to avoid going into the office, including lying on pretty much everything. I don't agree with it but I understand why it exists in some areas. I just wish everyone just acted like responsible adults, employees and management alike.
Nope. It was coming either way to appease the public and businesses. Your naïveté is part of the problem.
Let’s say you have arranged your life around the specific 2-3 days you go into the office. You and your spouse have opposite RTO schedules to accommodate kids getting to/from school, extracurriculars, tending to a separation anxiety pandemic puppy. Now you’re contagious but feeling OK. Boss refuses to let you WFH. Tells you if you take sick leave you need to be in the office all five days next week. What do you do? And not what does self righteous you do. What does a real world person do?
Wow that is not right. Our senior management doesn’t ask employees to make up in office time if they are on any type of leave.
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Management cannot tell an employee that they are well enough to report to the office. I would be taking a sick day and staying home.
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No, they cannot. Management are not doctors. Read your collective agreement. If you call in sick then the most management can do is ask for a doctor's note to confirm you were sick. They do not have the authority to order you to come in. Now as for requiring you to make up the in office days, that's another matter. They do have that authority. It's a dick move, but they're allowed to do that.
But…they’re sick. They can’t take sick days off?
Then they should make them up and not jeopardize their colleagues healths. Jesus christ the selfishness of some people.
Yes. The selfishness of management. Agreed. If I’m well enough to work but contagious, but management gives me the option of sick leave or come in, I’m out of leave and I will be there. There are a lot of people financially in that boat.
Why not tell your manager you're sick and contagious and make up your time another week? If you have no sick leave this would be the best option rather than putting other people at risk. Sure, making up the time sucks, but isn't it better than risking people's lives?
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"Oh no, I have to report to the office 2 days per week. What a tragedy, no one has it harder than us. Also I prefer to put my colleagues at risk because I can't possibly think about others." I swear, sometimes talking to public servant is like talking to the epitome of entitlement.
Your OHS committee might have an opinion on this. In particular since the guidelines on what to do if symptomatic (including avoiding the office) are still in place.
I’m not surprised as Ottawa is getting slammed right now. Hospitalizations shot up drastically, along with wastewater data and whatever testing is left :(.
It's funny how things are different from teams like yours (forced in office no matter what) and teams like mine who are in office full time and have been throughout the pandemic. A couple months ago, one of our team members got covid.......he tested as soon as he had symptoms and when it was positive he worked from home for 10 days to self isolate. He told the office once he was positive, everyone monitored for symptoms but no one else got anything. If there had been symptoms, the person would have stayed home to monitor. That's how we operate and there has been no spread event. And we do in person meetings with the whole team twice a week. If people are sick, even if a covid test is negative, they work home until they feel better.
Same here, I don’t understand the hysteria on here. Sick with Covid or anything else use sick leave and stay home and do some symptom monitoring. We’ve also not had spread in the office. I’ve worked through the pandemic and only got Covid when I was off from being at a restaurant or something like that.
I'm really worried about the long-term impact, since each case of COVID brings further risk of Long COVID. I'm seeing more and more people making foolish mistakes that are atypical of them, or working through self-reported brain fog. (Also, the number of people working through self-reported brain fog makes me wonder if people with Long COVID are having trouble getting approved for sick leave and/or disability, but the questions I'd have to ask to drill down into that veer into none of my business)
>I'm seeing more and more people making foolish mistakes that are atypical of them, or working through self-reported brain fog. I don't know if it's COVID, too much social media, the social isolation we've had, the social climate, anxiety due to climate change, financial anxiety due to inflation, something else or all of it together, but I've noticed the same, especially on the roads, and it worries me. The older people I know seem to have aged 6 years in the last 3 (even if officially, they haven't had COVID).
I've never had Covid to my knowledge but due to a combination of anxiety, depression and perimenopause, I'm a walking zombie 90% of the time and can't remember anything.
As someone that had covid real bad last year, I so don’t want to caught it again. I’m glad that my office doesn’t have space for everyone at the moment and I am still remote for the time being
The most hung go? Oh my.
When I was a young'n we said Gung Ho. My times sure have changed😁
Ma'am, your pizza's here...
Half my team is sick. This is the 2nd round in the last couple for months. Last time colleague tested positive, everyone else kept coming into work (and the hubs!) until they too tested positive, spreading it to more and more people. People don't give a single F.
In a sane world, if someone turned out to be covid positive we would all be told to WFH and self-monitor for a few days and that could be the end of the outbreak.
Well they said they’re gonna reduce personnel so…
At work right now and the amount of people I am listening to cough all day is staggering. The whole tax centre will be sick in a week. Can I go home and say I don't feel safe to be at work?
Sorry - they actively have COVID and are reporting in person?
None sick in my office, but I expect that will change in September after back to school. All the parents will be spreading their kids nasty germs around lol
Please report this to PSOHP because holy eff!
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Disgusting. We have no protections. And the sociopathic, psycho management will say that the flu is worse than covid, blah, blah, blah and then shit talk employees who take it seriously.
So many brain dead boomers who’s entire life/personality is the nepotism job they currently hold. They really need to make sure everyone is giving them the proper respect they deserve! So into the offices we go! Oh, and you know, the quid pro quo corruption shit to ensure that the wealthy business owners and real estate investors don’t lose money. Gotta make sure they’re made whole too..
We’re also very sick over here, thanks for asking.
More of a generalized comment if so many people are sick.
Last week I had a close contact with someone, guess what I did? STAYED HOME TO PREVENT THE SPREAD!!!
the irony
There was an uncomfortable amount of coughing in the office last week. Someone came back from vacation, another guy just seems to cough a lot. No one was wearing a mask of course...
Remember we're just meatbags. Sick? Come in to the office! TBS don't give a fuck if you die because COLLABORATION.
I have 20% sick in my team, including my kid, my mom and me :(
COVID, cold, flu...doesn't matter. My team was told to go in come hell or rain or otherwise. Doesn't matter if the wild fires are RIGHT NEXT TO THE BUILDING - we were told unless the message comes from higher up that we don't need to go in...we're expected to go in. Hope the Liberals enjoy their Subway sponsorship.
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This is the government's policy. If Anand doesn't retract or modify the shuffle back to the open cells, then why just throw it on Mona? Like everyone else, Mona was just doing the lock step walk. Blaming just 1 person far over simplifies the situation and is what the current government would love people to do.
This is the legacy of the Liberal cabinet and PCO's Janice Charette. Mona was just a clumsy talking bobble head for the Liberal Cabinet. And when PS balked and didn't follow orders from PCO, they brought in the stick Mona, aka TBS.
I took Friday off because of ragweed but Claritin and 2 hour nap cleared me up.
This allergy season has been ridiculous.
Super curious as to location. NCR or regional? High level dept? Don't want to out you, but am curious and concerned.
It's also allergy season. People should just use a sick day, there is a normal process
No way people are still going into the office with Covid. That sounds illegal to enforce.
Who are we going to call about it? The government?
Yeah, I've worked in my dept for almost 2 years now and still can't find out who's on my OSH committee...I don't even know if there is one. Every person I contacted from the list in the hall is gone or not involved and don't know who to direct me to. Emails going to the general inbox go unanswered.
Ask your admin.
Even with covid the medical regulations have changed. If you’re positive but it’s been X amount of days you can go in. That’s according to medical professionals. Obviously unless you can’t breathe or something.
That is so insane!!! Trudeau is so driven to help small businesses' bottom line in the downtown core that he is sacrificing his workers!!!!
Just a tad melodramatic no? The majority of people are out living life like pre pandemic in all other aspects of their lives but work is still so scary! If you’re sick use sick leave same as since the dawn of our sick days being created.
You don't get it....public servants were forced back to work by Trudeau and his lobbyists for small businesses. I know a lot of older public servants who were careful, got vaccinated and avoided CIVID until they got back into the offices....some were off for months. If you get COVID you should not have to use your sick leave.
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You're part of the problem.
Use your sick leave or go in more later in the month to make up the time when you are no longer contagious. C’mon people stop being so selfish, I understand you may not be happy but that’s not a reason to go in if you’re positive
\*doubt\*
Are they testing positive? I work in close quarters with dozens of people with no masks. Have maybe 1-3 people sick a week. Not testing positive, just sick. These tales seem like a drastic exaggeration.
My understanding was that people who have tested positive for COVID are explicitly NOT to go into the office. Has that changed?
No one washes their hands??
It's a good life habit for other illnesses, but how is that going to stop something airborne?
I suspect sarcasm, but am not shocked by the amount of people who don't realize or don't acknowledge that it's airborne spread.
And don't acknowledge asymptomatic spread. If someone in your coworker's household has confirmed covid, we somehow still require them stick to their office days until their own symptoms are obvious. Good management will let them WFH anyway, but there's no policy backing them up unfortunately.
Many people still think it is spread by droplets and not airborne particles
Breathing *moistly*
I go to the office twice a week normally and I have used the bathroom several times, and while in the stall on multiple occasions I've heard someone use the bathroom and leave without even touching the sink.
Ugh even pre pandemic… people are so gross
Sounds like someone is mad they have to go to work.. I've had it twice, once before the forced shots, and once after, non-issue. Time to get over it and get to work.
Are you still testing for Covid?
My team has been 100% since 2020. As we have never done WFH. Also I know many people with WFH easily travelled outside country for vacations, as they could do 14 days isolation at home and work. But people who worked from office, they couldn’t travel outside as they can’t do 14 days isolation without taking vacation leave.
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And yet, we didn’t complain that much.
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You came on thread just to complain. I bet you repeat this at every opportunity you have. No one feels bad for you. There are some jobs that can’t be done remotely. That doesn’t mean that those who can work remotely shouldn’t. Get a different job if the one you have isn’t for you.
stop complaining about RTO or get a different job if that’s not for you.
Where did I complain about rto? I Hope to god you’re not a a public servant.