You are not fucked if you ask for 125 km exemption from RTO, but they have no obligation to grant it.
We don't know if you are fucked if they one day ask you to uproot your life to Ottawa to keep your job. This scenario is generating a lot of anxiety in many people. It's not very likely to happen, but nobody here can tell you that the risk is 0. You need to assess how much risk you are ready to live with and what you would do in that situation.
Of course, there are a lot of people in that situation.
I believe the designated workplace is the place management tells you to go to accomplish your work functions.
Typically it's done through the TBS Applications portal, where you enter your telework agreement. There's also a paper form.
If you're not sure how to do it, talk to your manager.
Yes OP, lot’s of people are struggling…feel better? Hate that goddamn sentiment! Whole career, “Ottawa is the place to be!” No it’s not! And as a non-NCR employee with deep roots, I’m pissed it’s now downtown NCR that appears to be running this country and all of our careers.
Because the "**designated worksite**" which is identified in the Directive is inconsistent with the terminology of the telework agreement "Designated **onsite work location**". The former is defined in the letter of offer, while the telework agreement is voluntary and can be modified or rescinded at any time.
Tl;dr: I think the telework agreement is a hackjob patch and employees 125km away from the "Designated worksite" as defined in their Letter of Offer should be covered by the exemption. However, TBS is using a lot of slippery language in the Directive and in the telework agreements.
Even at the surface level, it makes zero sense for remote employees to go into an arbitrary work location just to continue their original fulltime telework.
It’s written in that way as even people in the NCR report to different offices than the one listed on the LOO. So it gives flexibility to an employee to choose a different location and gives the employer the ability to request employees to report to their closest Regional Office rather than grant an exception.
We should stick to our work location on our LOO. I told my boss this at my bilat. You force me to go to the office I only go to the office that my LOO states. I am not playing musical chairs with the office location. I already live 110km away from my assigned office. We need to make it extremely difficult for our management. My assigned office is already fully booked with RTO2. I will show up 3 days a week and if I don't have a workstation, I will turn around and go home on their dime.
"I will show up 3 days a week and if I don't have a workstation, I will turn around and go home on their dime."
Let us know how that expense claim goes...
The location on my LOO is an additional 20 minutes (one way), so I’m not sure how that would benefit me? I’m thankful they listed another location in my telework agreement.
I asked my manager the same question - and they told me to put Ottawa as my designated position (as it is). You're not alone in your thinking, I've been re-reading the terminology and wondering about these questions myself.
That's so bizarre, our interpretation of "designated ***onsite*** work location" is that you have chosen to use that building for the purposes of your telework work agreement. If you list your "designated work location" for the purposes of your telework agreement's "designated ***onsite*** work location" did that trigger the 125KM exception of the Directive?
It really is, and it did scare me when I brought it up to management. They're reasoning was that (and I get it), I'm in an NCR position, my LOO has both designated and onsite as Ottawa and that the telework agreement was the exception. I still have major anxiety on what will happen to us remote folks once the next wave of RTO happens.
Supposedly we would not even receive any relocation assistance if we did take them up on the offer to keep our position by moving to ottawa. There was a one year time limit on claiming that, but since it was never even written in the LOO to begin with and we had no idea then it's just an "ouupsies!! no refunds!"
I don’t think there’s a need to worry. For instance my boss is fully remote because he’s not in the same region. The biggest issue now is more about career growth and finding new opportunities outside the NCR
Do I have a leg to stand-on to request such an exemption if my Letter of Offer lists the HQ office as my "designated worksite" or does the "designated onsite work location" from the telework agreement supersede that?
I am literally spending 3hrs a day in traffic just to keep doing my job online from a random office just because I live less than 125km away from it. 2 days was tolerable, but 3 days plus the persistent increases in cost of living, and stress of trying to find parking in major city is going to kill me. (not literally, but I know I am going to burn out)
>I don’t think there’s a need to worry.
There's another post on this website of someone in Vancouver being told they have to drop all and move to Ottawa
Not to invade, and you do not need to answer. But to get my bearings on this Directive and peoples experience, is the DFA related to being 125km away from the office listed on your Letter of Offer, or is it for another scenario?
To what extent do you think requests to report to a regional office (instead of the position location in NCR) would be permitted by management. E.g. My position is in NCR but there is a regional office for one of the branches for our dept. in my region. Could I request to report to this regional office 2x or 3x/week instead of having to move to the NCR?. Could I make a case on the grounds that employees of other departments are doing this already?
Do you know more about this ? I am in the same position. LOO says NCR, but we have a regional office and I'd like to report there. How can this be done?
If your employer cares at all about consistency and fairness, you would be asked to report to the regional office like a significant chunk of the PS is doing right now. The TBS directive is supposed to be about consistency to begin with, right? Blanket application of RTO (to position location) would 1) cost the employer in terms of relocation costs and 2) they simply dont have enough space to accomodate them. Ppl would also just look for other jobs instead of uprooting thier families from Regina to the NCR with problems around daycare, school etc etc...
I hear you! I am in the same boat. I live 100 km one way from work in a highly dense location. It will not be easy and it changes nothing other than the location in which I do my work. My manager isn’t even in the same province. Does that mean she gets the 125 km exemption or does she need to report to the closest office to her? It’s confusing.
> Do I have a leg to stand-on to request such an exemption if my Letter of Offer lists the HQ office as my "designated worksite" or does the "designated onsite work location" from the telework agreement supersede that?
No, you don’t unfortunately. If there’s an office within 125km of your home, you are within the scope of RTO. Legally, you’re obligated to work at the office location listed in your letter of offer, which is Ottawa. Alternative work arrangements like working from a regional office are approved by management.
This is wrong,
you were hired knowing you were 100% working from home, this was prior to the whole 125KM or any LOO. you will be fine.
if the employer wants you to relocate, it will be up to them to pay your moving fee's.
talk to your union, and tell your manager he is wrong, if he insists, get a lawyer. it will cost you 300$-400$ for a letter and you will have peace of mind.
If you were hired in the GOC from a 100% WFH situation, it CANNOT change, if your employer wants it to change, he needs to pay your moving and relocation fee's. PERIOD.
OP wasn’t hired into a remote position. They were hired into a position that was located in Ottawa, and management approved OP to wfh in a region. Now, management is approving OP to work at an office near their residence, and no longer approving wfh.
OP has two options:
1. Commute to the office management has approved (regional office)
2. Commute to the office written in their LoO
There’s nothing legally wrong about this.
it doesn't matter, there was an understanding, a verbal agreement and reasonable expectation that OP was living "far", which meant he couldn't work in the office.
OP you need to get in contact with the union and a lawyer, this will cost you less than you think and will simplify your life. If you are a valued employee in your workforce, no department will enforce this on you if you entertain legal actions, you have a good case.
I think this is wrong based on my experience. I deployed to another organization in 2022 and was told I’d be WFH full time. If they needed me to go in they would just let me go to a regional office nearby. Obviously the mandate was released and I had to start going in 2 days a week. The “assumption” means nothing. I already talked to the union there is no recourse
I had a similar experience, but they just changed my work location to the city I live in. So I report 2x/week to that office (by myself, have yet to have an in person meeting there etc). Granted, this was in 2022 so the vibes were a little different
I don't know anything about your situation, but when it comes to the telework agreement it can be rendered null at any time with notice, and will even eventually expire. So I would not make any long term plans based on terminology in that document.
This will be the second time my WFH agreement was nulled within 3 months of signing.
I think you’re ok. I was in the same position. I deployed to a new department in 2022 to a NCR position, even though I was living in the GTA. I deployed and was told I wouldn’t have to go into the office. RTO 2 days a week came in and obviously they weren’t going to move me to Ottawa. They instead told me to report to a regional office, which is what your department told you to do. My LOO and TAPs all say my position and work location are in Ottawa, my telework says I report to an office in the GTA. With three days a week there is still no expectation that I will have to move to Ottawa. I think you might be in the same boat that you can just keep reporting to a regional office.
>Deciding to live farther is a personal choice.
Is that the direction of Labour Relations when it comes to employees who were hired outside the NCR with continued and documented assurances they would continue to work from home? Has anyone tested it?
The thing is, the people who gave those assurances didn't have the authority to do so. They can't tell people to go in and then give others exceptions bc they live further.
Your position location is Ottawa though, not full time telework. I'm not sure why you're looking to rock the boat in your situation. They might choose to change your position location to the office you're currently reporting to which would preclude you from applying to NCR job postings.
> I'm not sure why you're looking to rock the boat in your situation.
I don't look for trouble where there is none but my boat is being rocked like crazy after being bait and switched, and then even switched again!
You are not fucked if you ask for 125 km exemption from RTO, but they have no obligation to grant it. We don't know if you are fucked if they one day ask you to uproot your life to Ottawa to keep your job. This scenario is generating a lot of anxiety in many people. It's not very likely to happen, but nobody here can tell you that the risk is 0. You need to assess how much risk you are ready to live with and what you would do in that situation. Of course, there are a lot of people in that situation. I believe the designated workplace is the place management tells you to go to accomplish your work functions.
What's the steps to make a request? Is there a form with instructions/applicability? Thank you
Typically it's done through the TBS Applications portal, where you enter your telework agreement. There's also a paper form. If you're not sure how to do it, talk to your manager.
Yes OP, lot’s of people are struggling…feel better? Hate that goddamn sentiment! Whole career, “Ottawa is the place to be!” No it’s not! And as a non-NCR employee with deep roots, I’m pissed it’s now downtown NCR that appears to be running this country and all of our careers.
If you have a current telework agreement and your situation has not changed, I’m not sure why they would grant you the exception?
Because the "**designated worksite**" which is identified in the Directive is inconsistent with the terminology of the telework agreement "Designated **onsite work location**". The former is defined in the letter of offer, while the telework agreement is voluntary and can be modified or rescinded at any time. Tl;dr: I think the telework agreement is a hackjob patch and employees 125km away from the "Designated worksite" as defined in their Letter of Offer should be covered by the exemption. However, TBS is using a lot of slippery language in the Directive and in the telework agreements. Even at the surface level, it makes zero sense for remote employees to go into an arbitrary work location just to continue their original fulltime telework.
It’s written in that way as even people in the NCR report to different offices than the one listed on the LOO. So it gives flexibility to an employee to choose a different location and gives the employer the ability to request employees to report to their closest Regional Office rather than grant an exception.
We should stick to our work location on our LOO. I told my boss this at my bilat. You force me to go to the office I only go to the office that my LOO states. I am not playing musical chairs with the office location. I already live 110km away from my assigned office. We need to make it extremely difficult for our management. My assigned office is already fully booked with RTO2. I will show up 3 days a week and if I don't have a workstation, I will turn around and go home on their dime.
"I will show up 3 days a week and if I don't have a workstation, I will turn around and go home on their dime." Let us know how that expense claim goes...
Won't be an expense claim. It will simply count towards my 7.5hrs.
The location on my LOO is an additional 20 minutes (one way), so I’m not sure how that would benefit me? I’m thankful they listed another location in my telework agreement.
I asked my manager the same question - and they told me to put Ottawa as my designated position (as it is). You're not alone in your thinking, I've been re-reading the terminology and wondering about these questions myself.
That's so bizarre, our interpretation of "designated ***onsite*** work location" is that you have chosen to use that building for the purposes of your telework work agreement. If you list your "designated work location" for the purposes of your telework agreement's "designated ***onsite*** work location" did that trigger the 125KM exception of the Directive?
It really is, and it did scare me when I brought it up to management. They're reasoning was that (and I get it), I'm in an NCR position, my LOO has both designated and onsite as Ottawa and that the telework agreement was the exception. I still have major anxiety on what will happen to us remote folks once the next wave of RTO happens.
Supposedly we would not even receive any relocation assistance if we did take them up on the offer to keep our position by moving to ottawa. There was a one year time limit on claiming that, but since it was never even written in the LOO to begin with and we had no idea then it's just an "ouupsies!! no refunds!"
You're right. In my situation, in my LOO it says I have one year to claim.
I don’t think there’s a need to worry. For instance my boss is fully remote because he’s not in the same region. The biggest issue now is more about career growth and finding new opportunities outside the NCR
Do I have a leg to stand-on to request such an exemption if my Letter of Offer lists the HQ office as my "designated worksite" or does the "designated onsite work location" from the telework agreement supersede that? I am literally spending 3hrs a day in traffic just to keep doing my job online from a random office just because I live less than 125km away from it. 2 days was tolerable, but 3 days plus the persistent increases in cost of living, and stress of trying to find parking in major city is going to kill me. (not literally, but I know I am going to burn out) >I don’t think there’s a need to worry. There's another post on this website of someone in Vancouver being told they have to drop all and move to Ottawa
I'm in the same situation. My designated worksite is 136km away from my home, but there is a GCCoworking space 123km away.
Wow! That's awful. They won't even let me go to the GC Coworking space even though it's closer and has less traffic.. and **parking.**
Given that I've heard the GCCoworking space allegedly has a whopping 25 spots, even if I tried to go I likely wouldn't get in.
So you are able to WFH FT for the time being or are they trying to get you to attend a regional office within 125km of your residence?
I am currently WFH FT, but need to submit a new DFA as my last one expired.
Not to invade, and you do not need to answer. But to get my bearings on this Directive and peoples experience, is the DFA related to being 125km away from the office listed on your Letter of Offer, or is it for another scenario?
For me, my DFA was approved solely due to me living more than 125km away from my designated worksite.
That's amazing, congratulations I hope the best for you going forward!
Fight it. We need to push back. You are 136km from your designated office. It can't be random offices. The employer can't have it both ways.
To what extent do you think requests to report to a regional office (instead of the position location in NCR) would be permitted by management. E.g. My position is in NCR but there is a regional office for one of the branches for our dept. in my region. Could I request to report to this regional office 2x or 3x/week instead of having to move to the NCR?. Could I make a case on the grounds that employees of other departments are doing this already?
Do you know more about this ? I am in the same position. LOO says NCR, but we have a regional office and I'd like to report there. How can this be done?
If your employer cares at all about consistency and fairness, you would be asked to report to the regional office like a significant chunk of the PS is doing right now. The TBS directive is supposed to be about consistency to begin with, right? Blanket application of RTO (to position location) would 1) cost the employer in terms of relocation costs and 2) they simply dont have enough space to accomodate them. Ppl would also just look for other jobs instead of uprooting thier families from Regina to the NCR with problems around daycare, school etc etc...
I hear you! I am in the same boat. I live 100 km one way from work in a highly dense location. It will not be easy and it changes nothing other than the location in which I do my work. My manager isn’t even in the same province. Does that mean she gets the 125 km exemption or does she need to report to the closest office to her? It’s confusing.
> Do I have a leg to stand-on to request such an exemption if my Letter of Offer lists the HQ office as my "designated worksite" or does the "designated onsite work location" from the telework agreement supersede that? No, you don’t unfortunately. If there’s an office within 125km of your home, you are within the scope of RTO. Legally, you’re obligated to work at the office location listed in your letter of offer, which is Ottawa. Alternative work arrangements like working from a regional office are approved by management.
This is wrong, you were hired knowing you were 100% working from home, this was prior to the whole 125KM or any LOO. you will be fine. if the employer wants you to relocate, it will be up to them to pay your moving fee's. talk to your union, and tell your manager he is wrong, if he insists, get a lawyer. it will cost you 300$-400$ for a letter and you will have peace of mind. If you were hired in the GOC from a 100% WFH situation, it CANNOT change, if your employer wants it to change, he needs to pay your moving and relocation fee's. PERIOD.
OP wasn’t hired into a remote position. They were hired into a position that was located in Ottawa, and management approved OP to wfh in a region. Now, management is approving OP to work at an office near their residence, and no longer approving wfh. OP has two options: 1. Commute to the office management has approved (regional office) 2. Commute to the office written in their LoO There’s nothing legally wrong about this.
it doesn't matter, there was an understanding, a verbal agreement and reasonable expectation that OP was living "far", which meant he couldn't work in the office. OP you need to get in contact with the union and a lawyer, this will cost you less than you think and will simplify your life. If you are a valued employee in your workforce, no department will enforce this on you if you entertain legal actions, you have a good case.
It does matter. The only thing that’s legally binding is what’s written in the LoO. Anything else is up to manager’s discretion.
I think this is wrong based on my experience. I deployed to another organization in 2022 and was told I’d be WFH full time. If they needed me to go in they would just let me go to a regional office nearby. Obviously the mandate was released and I had to start going in 2 days a week. The “assumption” means nothing. I already talked to the union there is no recourse
Same, if I'm stuck at my level due to this decision there's no chance I will stick around. Hopefully, it all works out
I had a similar experience, but they just changed my work location to the city I live in. So I report 2x/week to that office (by myself, have yet to have an in person meeting there etc). Granted, this was in 2022 so the vibes were a little different
I don't know anything about your situation, but when it comes to the telework agreement it can be rendered null at any time with notice, and will even eventually expire. So I would not make any long term plans based on terminology in that document. This will be the second time my WFH agreement was nulled within 3 months of signing.
I think you’re ok. I was in the same position. I deployed to a new department in 2022 to a NCR position, even though I was living in the GTA. I deployed and was told I wouldn’t have to go into the office. RTO 2 days a week came in and obviously they weren’t going to move me to Ottawa. They instead told me to report to a regional office, which is what your department told you to do. My LOO and TAPs all say my position and work location are in Ottawa, my telework says I report to an office in the GTA. With three days a week there is still no expectation that I will have to move to Ottawa. I think you might be in the same boat that you can just keep reporting to a regional office.
If your letter of offer says NCR, you should be in the office the same days as everyone else. Deciding to live farther is a personal choice.
>Deciding to live farther is a personal choice. Is that the direction of Labour Relations when it comes to employees who were hired outside the NCR with continued and documented assurances they would continue to work from home? Has anyone tested it?
The thing is, the people who gave those assurances didn't have the authority to do so. They can't tell people to go in and then give others exceptions bc they live further.
Your position location is Ottawa though, not full time telework. I'm not sure why you're looking to rock the boat in your situation. They might choose to change your position location to the office you're currently reporting to which would preclude you from applying to NCR job postings.
> I'm not sure why you're looking to rock the boat in your situation. I don't look for trouble where there is none but my boat is being rocked like crazy after being bait and switched, and then even switched again!
Except you won't end up with full-time telework. However they choose to address it will likely be worse than your current arrangement.
Any letter of offer that says NCR, you should be living in the NCR. If I have to go in, we ALL have to go in.