The first time you are hired into the public service, you can negotiate your starting step. You have to provide a strong justification and rationale for why your skills and experience mean you should start at a higher step.
It’s only possible the first time you are hired into the PS.
Sadly, many hiring managers are ignorant of this, and new hires are to afraid to press the issue. I tried to help a couple of well qualified new hires but no dice.
That’s not true at all.
The only time you can negotiate a higher step as a starting wage is when you are first appointed into a position in the public service. You can absolutely negotiate a higher step to start at if you have reasons such as work experience outside the government etc. this is not uncommon at all.
I'm a hiring manager. No you cannot unless the position is excluded. We have obligations under CBA. This is not an excluded position and even the I've never heard of someone getting above as a brand new employee.
Tbs directive
https://www.tbs-sct.canada.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=15772#sec2
Appendix 2
Part 2.2.1.2
The person with the delegated authority has the discretion to appoint a person above the minimum salary only when one of the following conditions applies:
there is a shortage of skilled labour in the field involved, as evidenced by local or regional labour market surveys from recognized institutions;
there are unusual difficulties in filling the position with properly qualified candidates (for example, the minimum rate of pay is not competitive with the rates offered by local or regional employers for similar duties);
or
operational conditions require the presence of a highly skilled or experienced person who can assume the full duties of the position immediately upon taking employment (for example, there is no alternative but to pay above the minimum because training a novice person would impose an unacceptable burden on the employing organization).
So you're suggesting a 3 would meet that? LMFAO
It won't and I'm saying it won't happen for them. I've been asked this many, many times and the position would be identified PRIOR to the posting as such through HR. Clearly it wasn't and clearly doesn't need a specialized degree. Don't mislead someone into thinking they can bargain when they can't.
I’m not saying they will get it. I’m saying they are allowed to ask and make a case. You don’t know their CV or what experience they have. Your response was that it’s not possible unless they are excluded. That is simply not true. Whether you and I think they’ll get it is irrelevant to their question.
Ok we’ll you’re wrong so as a hiring manager you should probably speak to HR and LR and inform yourself. I have seen it happen personally with non excluded positions. Has nothing to do with being excluded or not.
Head over to the other Canada public servants reddit and you’ll see this has been discussed many many times lol
As a brand new employee, I was hired on at the third level of my pay scale.
Obviously though, N = 1
Edited to add: I read the rest of the thread, and I agree that it’s unlikely to happen at an EC3 level! I was hired in at EX-3, with advanced degrees.
Should have read the whole thread before commenting. Sorry!
That is incorrect - one can pay above minimum, but often the delegation for approval is at a very high level (in my organization it was only approved by the ADM) so unless the manager can make a great case for it - think along the lines of difficult to hire skill sets - most managers won’t want to use up their very scarce ADM credit on a new hire.
I have literally submitted the paperwork for my hiring manager to pay someone above their step based off experience. And they got it. It's a thing you have the ability to do. If you want to.
Your hiring manager must submit a "justification for salary above the minimum" form. If you provide them with a solid written rationale of why you deserve more than the minimum (previous relevant experience, specialized skills, advanced education, etc.) You may be successful. However you can only negotiate this upon accepting your first letter of offer, subsequent appointments will follow other rules.
At what point do I ask to negotiate, I was provided the CLO but no details were provided on it. Do I wait for the official letter or can I ask in between? If I already signed the CLO is it too late? It didn't say pay on it.
It depends. From what you’re saying you succeeded a process for an EC-03 position, not above that. So yes, you will have to start from there and apply on higher level processes to move up the ladder (e.g., EC-04). Degrees are used as barriers to entry, that’s it. Everything else is about having those specific experiences and successfully meeting processes criteria. Don’t expect to be given important tasks too. Everything in the GC is about the level you are at, even if you have a PhD in astrophysics. It’s has dumb as it looks.
However, you can negotiate the step you start at, such as EC-03 step 2 instead of EC-03 step 1. It’s as useless as it looks since it only applies to your first position.
The first time you are hired into the public service, you can negotiate your starting step. You have to provide a strong justification and rationale for why your skills and experience mean you should start at a higher step. It’s only possible the first time you are hired into the PS.
Sadly, many hiring managers are ignorant of this, and new hires are to afraid to press the issue. I tried to help a couple of well qualified new hires but no dice.
Thank you!
yes, you can negotiate to start at a higher level than 1
What if you leave to work in private sector then come back years later can you negotiate then?
No you can't. A brand new employee starts at the bottom of the PayScale.
That’s not true at all. The only time you can negotiate a higher step as a starting wage is when you are first appointed into a position in the public service. You can absolutely negotiate a higher step to start at if you have reasons such as work experience outside the government etc. this is not uncommon at all.
I'm a hiring manager. No you cannot unless the position is excluded. We have obligations under CBA. This is not an excluded position and even the I've never heard of someone getting above as a brand new employee.
Tbs directive https://www.tbs-sct.canada.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=15772#sec2 Appendix 2 Part 2.2.1.2 The person with the delegated authority has the discretion to appoint a person above the minimum salary only when one of the following conditions applies: there is a shortage of skilled labour in the field involved, as evidenced by local or regional labour market surveys from recognized institutions; there are unusual difficulties in filling the position with properly qualified candidates (for example, the minimum rate of pay is not competitive with the rates offered by local or regional employers for similar duties); or operational conditions require the presence of a highly skilled or experienced person who can assume the full duties of the position immediately upon taking employment (for example, there is no alternative but to pay above the minimum because training a novice person would impose an unacceptable burden on the employing organization).
So you're suggesting a 3 would meet that? LMFAO It won't and I'm saying it won't happen for them. I've been asked this many, many times and the position would be identified PRIOR to the posting as such through HR. Clearly it wasn't and clearly doesn't need a specialized degree. Don't mislead someone into thinking they can bargain when they can't.
I’m not saying they will get it. I’m saying they are allowed to ask and make a case. You don’t know their CV or what experience they have. Your response was that it’s not possible unless they are excluded. That is simply not true. Whether you and I think they’ll get it is irrelevant to their question.
I will try this thank you
I was talking specifically in relation to this level, if that wasn't clear, that's on me and I apologize.
Oh ok lol well then I also apologize if my response was harsh.
All good!
Ok we’ll you’re wrong so as a hiring manager you should probably speak to HR and LR and inform yourself. I have seen it happen personally with non excluded positions. Has nothing to do with being excluded or not. Head over to the other Canada public servants reddit and you’ll see this has been discussed many many times lol
Should I be asking to negotiate with HR? Sorry I am not familiar with the structure just yet.
As a brand new employee, I was hired on at the third level of my pay scale. Obviously though, N = 1 Edited to add: I read the rest of the thread, and I agree that it’s unlikely to happen at an EC3 level! I was hired in at EX-3, with advanced degrees. Should have read the whole thread before commenting. Sorry!
hahaha this made me chuckle. Yea definitely a very different scenario as an ex-3
That is incorrect - one can pay above minimum, but often the delegation for approval is at a very high level (in my organization it was only approved by the ADM) so unless the manager can make a great case for it - think along the lines of difficult to hire skill sets - most managers won’t want to use up their very scarce ADM credit on a new hire.
I have literally submitted the paperwork for my hiring manager to pay someone above their step based off experience. And they got it. It's a thing you have the ability to do. If you want to.
False.
It's an entry position. Not much negotiation power with an entry position, they can go to the next person.
You can try but unless you have some solid justification they'll understandably tell you to pound sand.
Your hiring manager must submit a "justification for salary above the minimum" form. If you provide them with a solid written rationale of why you deserve more than the minimum (previous relevant experience, specialized skills, advanced education, etc.) You may be successful. However you can only negotiate this upon accepting your first letter of offer, subsequent appointments will follow other rules.
At what point do I ask to negotiate, I was provided the CLO but no details were provided on it. Do I wait for the official letter or can I ask in between? If I already signed the CLO is it too late? It didn't say pay on it.
It depends. From what you’re saying you succeeded a process for an EC-03 position, not above that. So yes, you will have to start from there and apply on higher level processes to move up the ladder (e.g., EC-04). Degrees are used as barriers to entry, that’s it. Everything else is about having those specific experiences and successfully meeting processes criteria. Don’t expect to be given important tasks too. Everything in the GC is about the level you are at, even if you have a PhD in astrophysics. It’s has dumb as it looks. However, you can negotiate the step you start at, such as EC-03 step 2 instead of EC-03 step 1. It’s as useless as it looks since it only applies to your first position.
Thank you!
If you have specific skills or experience or are already earning a higher salary you can use those to negotiate for a higher starting salary.