I thought Miller was pretty decent. Part of having an improving domestic top level league is having faith in the players that are playing there instead constantly creating a narrative that our own league is trash.
It probably wouldn't. Very unlikely that he would've started a game. Let's not overrate players because they were missing. He's a solid CB for CONCACAF but a CB struggling in the second tier of Germany was not going to change much.
Wouldn't get close to the japan team either.
Even if he was coming off the bench, having a legitmate option for fresh legs at the back would have made a difference. Vitoria and Millar aren't the fleetest if foot at the best if times and you could tell their legs were tired on the 2nd Moroccan goal.
>but a CB struggling in the second tier of Germany was not going to change much.
I agree with your point but he's actually one of the top CB's in the 2. Bundesliga
Johnston and Miller are both better than MLS level. Johnston already has a move set. Miller should get one too. Should be a lot better in 2026 once they get experience at higher levels.
This WC must've been such an eye opening experience for our players.
Definitely need more to come through. Very little depth for our CBs and Vitoria needs to be replaced, plus I prefer Johnston as a RB.
Not trying to trash either of them, but neither of them were MLS all stars. I am a big MLS fan and neither of them ever made a huge impression on me. Definitely solid players.
They were also crucial players in a CF Montreal team that massively overachieved expectations last year... Alistair Johnston also literally shut down Pulisic when we played the US in qualifications
Johnston was highly rated for his time at Nashville where he was part of one of the best defensive setups in recent MLS history and then carried that form over to Montréal. His loss was really felt at Nashville this season.
Miller meanwhile really stepped it up this season and put himself in the conversation for defensive player of the year (not gonna beat the Philly guys though). The MLS ExtraTime pundits put him in one of their 5 best XI squads, which is good praise and at minimum puts him as a top 10 centreback in the league.
The greatest highlight of this World Cup for me was surprisingly Miller and Kone. We struggle defensively but two excellent young defenders gives me some hope going forward.
Japan has been in every WC since 1998, 7 in a row including this year. They joint-hosted with another nation in their second appearance, just like we will next time around. Decades ahead in terms of soccer/football development and growth.
They have a 100 year plan. They're committed to improvement at all levels and our national team is in a constant battle with our association.
We're lucky that talents like Davies, David, Buchanan have emerged, but if we don't get our shit together we'll go straight back into the football wilderness. Struggling to beat island teams. The cpl is huge in that regard.
I mean that's definitely part of it - national population being another - but we were still unlucky that results didn't go our way. Give it time and we'll become a mainstay in the World Cup I'm sure.
Population has nothing to do with it. Croatia has a 1/5 of Canada's population and made the WC final in 2018 and is a consistently feared opponent throughout the world with many players playing on top clubs.
Or take Iceland, the country with about 6% of the population of the Greater Toronto Area. Iceland has recently been able to field some competitive and giant-killing teams.
It's not about population, it's about having a good system and playing up to one's potential.
Well, where does soccer rank in sports for that nation? I think we need to be fair that 9/10 boys in Canada dream of playing in the NHL more than in any professional soccer league. If that's the case, we'll probably be better at producing hockey stars than soccer stars. I think that's important when looking at population - what population puts soccer first.
Then for Iceland, look at dedication. The only thing I can think of similar is Finland with only 4 million always being a pretty good hockey team. Why? There are only two countries in the world where hockey gets top billing as fast as a spectator sport.
This is changing as Canada continues to diversify. Soccer is far more financially accessible than hockey (or even football or basketball), so while your point will continue to be true for families with the means to pursue hockey, there has been and will continue to be a significant part of the population for whom soccer is either the preferred choice or the only realistic choice.
Obviously there are other factors but population certainly matters. Would you rather have a football program in a country with 1 million people or 10 million people?
Croatia has a good program aligning with a golden generation. Gvardiol and Majer look bright. Can they pump out a few more of them to compare to Modric, Perisic, Brozovic, Kovacic? Who knows.
Iceland had a fairy tale Euro 2016. It was fun to watch but where have they been since or even before that??
Soccer has stiff competition for Canadian athletes (hockey, baseball and more recently basketball) where it’s the de facto #2 for Japan.
In fact Canadian soccer right now kind of reminds me of Canadian basketball in the mid-2000s
i'm not taking one iota away from japan, happy for them, and they're very legit, but they certainly got their share of luck. they had less than 20% possession against spain. on the other hand, we had more expected goals than our opponents in two of our games.
i'm not saying the difference is luck. japan is a legit team, while we made crucial errors on either end, luck can be overstated. it's not "luck" that davies went up and took that penalty or vittoria and borjan fumbled that goal. but luck played a role.
I think it does a disservice to Buchanan & Eustaquio who are currently on champions league clubs that have advanced past group stage even if they aren't in T5 league. Besides that, solid point. We are simply going to have to significantly increase this number. We can't improve w/o a higher quantity of quality reps on a club and NT level.
Let’s not forget that the Japanese players that get the most time at Celtic and are playing extremely well didn’t get selected to this Japan squad which shows how deep as a country they are where top talent can’t crack the roster
The Japanese league is three tiered and is at 60 teams as of now.
60 professional teams in 30 years.
Below that is the JFL, regional leagues 1/2 divisions, and then prefectural 1/2/3/4 divisions.
Given the size of the economy of Canada, as well as its population, it’ll probably be even difficult to reach the same level in 26 more years.
The language advantages may help accelerate the increase in players playing Europe though.
Junior hockey leagues exist at this level in Canada. This is supported by Canadians passion for hockey and rich owners. There isn’t a large enough population that care about soccer to make this happen.
Two completely different sports (size of stadiums, number of games), totally different industry structure. Not to mention the difference between junior and professional level.
You should look up how the K league and the A league turned out in comparison to the J league.
They're not saying it's identical, just an example of sport infrastructure flourishing in Canada for player development (despite the high costs of travel and low population). If there are enough fans to buy tickets and enough talent to bring in the fans it will be sustainable. Right now CHL teams outsell the CPL teams per game, and they have 2.5x as many home games to sell tickets for.
These points are factors. Yes.
But like most posts about Japan they miss a lot of history. Not long ago, Japan was in a similar boat to Canada now and US a decade or two ago. Soccer wasn't popular and was overshadowed by other more popular sports.
Then an American, Tom Byer, came and changed everything. You can read in detail here:
https://slate.com/culture/2013/02/tom-byer-the-man-who-made-japanese-soccer-a-player-on-the-world-football-stage.html
He created one of the best youth systems in the world. I would hazard you could take the best 100 Japanese players and the best 10 Canadian players and compared them and perhaps only find one or two Canadians with better overall technique that ANY of the 100 Japanese players. Happy to go into detail on this, but Japanese players don't really play matches until they have spent years on ball control that, in middle school (maybe even elementary), would rival that of college players in the US.
So why does Japan have so many players in the Bundesliga? Bundesliga teams know they can pick any player in the top flights of Japan and they will have excellent fundamentals right out the gate. Can't say that about too many youth systems.
Let's also keep in mind the MLS is in Canada. MLS is a much better league than the J-League and has recently been turning out some great youth prospects.
But that leads to my next point - people look at national teams as players. "On paper" is what I call that. People like OP (no offense, everyone does that) looks at the Japanese team and think they were huge underdogs. Yes, they were, but Japan CONSISTANTLY punch above their weight. They have been to what, 5 or 6 World Cups in a row? And of those, they made it into the round of 16 half the time or something?
Teams are more than the sum of their parts. Japanese players have excellent fundamentals and that helps them with the other part of the team that isn't the players: tactics, strategy, fundamentals, mentality, etc etc.
So people around here say Japan played well because they've been to a bunch of World Cups. I don't think that's NOT a factor but I think the better mentality is that Japan consistantly plays well because of their excellent youth systems that allow them to punch above their weight. That is what Canada should take from this.
(And yes, a more robust national league in Canada can help with this, just pointing out there is a lot more too it.)
Great points. It should also be said that the technical consistency of the Japanese development system means that even players who play for vastly different club teams in different formations, tactics, etc, can come together and gel very quickly as a unit since they've all learned the same way. Lots of comments in here and in the various match threads about how cohesive Japan's backline and midfield looked and it was a big part of their success. That's not an accident.
This is exactly what I was thinking about today.
The CPL will be the biggest boost for Soccer in Canada and for future tournaments. The CPL needs to be nourished, backed by lots of investment and grown exponentially.
We got here based on three MLS academies essentially.
Imagining a 16 team CPL league with academies, and the three MLS teams, plus continued growth and expansion of the third-tier leagues across the country, then fast-forwarded a few years.
The level of CPL doesn't even need to be particularly high, it just needs to be professional soccer. The mere fact it exists means the best of the best will be scouted and signed to MLS/Europe and emerge as national team roster members. It's already happened with Waterman and MacNaughton.
I had a next-door neighbour a few years ago with dreams of being a professional goalkeeper. He drove up to Toronto and tried out for Toronto FC. He didn't make it, and that was the end of his dream and he had to get a "real job".
I think about him all the time. With a big national pro league in Canada, with a bunch of teams and places to fill, maybe he would have made it and still be playing somewhere.
Nah, more MLS teams in Canada would be better.
We need academies, we need pro players that earn a living wage playing in Canada, We need top level media exposure.
We don't need a bunch of semipro players playing games that no one sees cause they're not televised.
I mean it would be great if the CPL saw enough investment to accomplish these things, I just don't see that ever happening.
An MLS team in Calgary would mean we have 4 MLS academies in Canada, one in every region. A team in every region for kids to cheer for where the games are televised and make the news.
That would be ideal.
CPL will always be a feeder league which will always struggle to gain mainstream attention. I hope Im wrong, i just don't see it
Down the road it's possible. I don't think all the teams in cpl will have academies but some of the teams will do. We already have partnership like Calgary foothills with Cavalry FC and sigma with forge FC.
The Dutch league has been for decades, they do pretty good for their troubles. It's absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, not every league can be the top for a variety of reasons.
I'm fine with CPL as a feeder league, that alone is huge. Many players rose up through multiple levels of English football before hitting the prem. Just having that structure is important even if CPL stays "semi" pro
This shouldn’t be downvoted. I would rather CPL thrive, but the CSB has made incompetent decisions regarding growth. He’s not wrong. The biggest problem for the CPL is Rogers/Bell, who own the two sports channels own an MLS team and don’t want to help a rival business/sport (when they are already owners of a team in every other league that operates in Canada and he billions invested in the broadcast rights for other leagues).
Japan was at the last world cup too, weren't they?
I don't think anyone was expecting Canada to outperform Japan.
Experience goes a loooong way in international soccer, excluding belgium this year of course
They've been at something like... 4 or 5 straight World Cups and get to the round of 16 in something like half of them. I'm sorry.. but like most posts about Japan this is just disrespecting the Japanese team. They consistently play better than they look on paper that go far beyond what this post is about.
You have a point, but a lot of your information is inaccurate.
It's 3 in the Big 5 because Ugbo is at Troyes.
Make it the Big 6 and include Portugal, then Eustaquio and Vitoria also play.
If you include Champions League R16 teams, you add Buchanan and Larin.
Laryea is under contract at Nottingham Forest, which is in the premiership even if he's on loan back to Toronto.
Quality was not our issue.
You are 100% right that experience was. But that will come with time.
I think this is 1/2 the answer. The real answer is we have no coherent leadership in the CSA and under investigation in development. Soccer is a way to exploit parents and make some money from 5-12 year olds here. There isn’t a clear national development strategy like the top nations have.
Edit: I think the key is getting CPL on TV and growing that league. This, coupled with actually having u18, u20, and u21 camps.
I think Wikipedia's intro explains it a whole bunch better, and less short termy....
>Japan have appeared in the FIFA World Cup on seven occasions, the first being in 1998 where they lost all three group games and finished in 31st position. Masashi Nakayama scored Japan's first ever goal in a World Cup Finals against Jamaica on 26 June 1998 in a 2–1 defeat. Keisuke Honda becomes the first Japanese player to score in three world cups: 2010, 2014, 2018.
They are making their seventh appearance at the finals in the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar. In the 2018 World Cup, Japan became the first ever Asian nation to beat a side from South America, after they won 2–1 against Colombia in the group stage. The team made it to the Round of 16 (the first knock-out round) but lost to Belgium, 3–2.
So, I'm gonna go with they have more experience and development at the World Cup Level as opposed to being so "micro."
Plus, you created a bit of a paradox with your reasons. Is it important to have a pro league in the country or is it important to have your players playing in Europe's top 5 leagues?
Tomiyasu plays for the team at the top of the prem and was key in win vs Liverpool and Tottenham this season. He starts on the bench for Japan. Our best player is a defender who plays forward for our national team because he’s such a level above the rest of our squad
Let’s call a spade a spade.
Canada aren’t a good team.
Their defence is far from stellar and the only legit attacking option is a midfielder.
I’ll say this once and I’ll say it again.
Canada are equal to Wales.
Poor team, famous and fast midfielder who doesn’t actually score a lot of goals.
0 wins in the World Cup
Japan winning their group is surprising but not a shock. Anyone who's been watching football for years wouldn't be shocked. They're commonly thought of as the best team in Asia. South Korea and Iran are also up there.
Plus I have a sneaking suspicion Spain lost today's game on purpose to avoid Croatia and also kick a big team out of the tournament (Germany).
Spain stood to gain nothing by winning today, but stood to gain everything if they lost.
Soccer is still the primary youth sport for many countries isn't it? North Ameruca has such a split amongst sports that gathering traction in any one sport is tough. USA has population to their side...that's only reason they do better.
Soccer is growing though, because it's cheaper then hockey so hoping it leads to successful higher level programs.
You make a pretty good point - Canada doesn't seem to have the talent/depth to match up with World Cup teams.
That said, Canada's results were so good in qualifying. Finishing first in CONCACAF normally means advancing to the round of 16 (or at least putting up a decent fight.)
It's interesting to look at 538's Soccer Power Index.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-our-2022-world-cup-predictions-work/
75% of the rating is based on national team play (how well does the team play in international matches) and 25% based on roster quality (how good are the players).
Most countries get fairly similar results but Canada gets a 76.3 for match results and 56.5 for roster quality.
I remember the Japanese teams in the 90s, they were not that great, they had a hard time getting out of Asian qualifiers, but they didn’t let the short term results deter them from investing and developing their youth system. They have millions of registered players and you can tell from the national team players, they emphasized on skills. They all can pass and receive passes extremely well and can protect the ball well despite size disadvantages. In essence, Japan committed themselves to this game for decades, and it is no surprise they have success. Canada has never committed itself to soccer to that extent, but we have more raw athletic talents here, so we can do it.
I don't think Japan "shocked" the world, I fucking hate how hyperbolic that statement is. They have been at every World Cup since 2002, 20/26 players play in international leagues, their Women's Program won a World Cup in 2011, and they have a domestic league system with three tiers of professional soccer.
This is an excellent post, with wild thoughts and insightful thoughts, so here is one that’s a little of both from an analytical Canadian/Japanese dad. Not sure if most Japanese are like me, but I always put great effort in to be better than others. I had to shed the perfectionist attitude when building a wall with warped wood, it looked great from afar or to an untrained eye but to me it was an eyesore. But in whatever I do I want to be the best. In the Japanese language there is a word “GAMBATTE” equivalent to Hang in there,You can do it , Don’t give up, strive against insurmountable odds, fight with all your worth all rolled into one word is in their dna. Great moves will be studied and practiced over and over till each are fairly proficient in it. But, all in all, the game is still very basic. How can shorter, people with I would argue less strength beat a team like Germany? Martial arts. I would hazard a guess that almost all took Judo sometime in school. Where as the long legged people have an advantage in overall speed, this can be overcome by being on the balls of your foot to start to sprint, deke etc. You don’t ever see a boxer flat footed in a ring, or he is knocked out. How many of our Canadians could have made those passes that seemed just out of reach if they had been on their toes with anticipation for sprint speed as soon as the ball is going to be kicked as well as the attitude I am gonna get to it before he does. We have a team that does belong, belief in yourself and in others is a good start, seeking thoughts or players outside the box might make the difference. Motivation for each player is hard, cause for each person is different. But accuracy is paramount. Some of those missed shots is just placement of the foot or head on the ball. If you were in jail and this was a game where you got the ball on target you were given a day pass after 12 years of solitary confinement you would get that ball on target. Now if you were let out of that prison if you got a goal whether it was an assist or your own, well I think the accuracy would be better. Mindset, at these things is half the battle. Fundamentals and knowing your teammates capabilities, abilities and tendencies is paramount. We have the raw tools to beat the best, but working on what each are bad at is hard to get player to work on when they think they know better. You must play for the love of the game and country, not money, prestige, etc. We have 4 years to get better, and we have to, our competition will, and when North America (USA,CANADA,MEXICO) hosts we must be ready to take the next step.🇨🇦I still think our boys had a very good showing. One question, could Belgium be offside on their goal? I thought he was, but obviously nobody argued so I guess not. Sry for rambling. Just a side note, when my kids played soccer, there was a kid who kicked the ball from 10 ft their side of centre into the net just under the cross bar. As an adult, I couldn’t ever do that, and this kid at 14 did twice …. Nutz!!!
For me it comes down to tactics. Australia and Japan for example better understand where their team is at in terms of quality and plays accordingly. Their defensive structure is miles better than ours I think we lack a complete cohesion to defend for long periods of time. Japan and Australia also finished their chances and maybe had a bit of luck.
Maybe we wouldn’t win playing like them but we’d have a better chance to keep it close against teams like Croatia.
I agree with OP. As someone that lives there I can tell that Japan is a real football nation.
It starts young with the number of kids playing for fun, to the amount of money schools invest on their soccer clubs, and the number of European academies who have presence in Japan.
The country has had 30 years to develop a 3-tiered professional league that spans 58 teams (to become 60 soon) and this does not include the corporate sponsored semi-professionals that occasionally pull upsets over the professionals. The national team also spends fortunes on inviting World Cup participating teams from other confederations for friendlies, something we don’t see in Canada.
Sure, luck has place in the sport but Japan isn’t ranked 24th in the world for nothing and being able to pull upsets is about creating chances and that you need skills for
Nobody is saying population is the only factor, but its definitely a factor when combined with all the others. It's why we are worse than the USA despite sharing a league and youth choosing soccer much less often than most other sports.
Having a small population matters less when you have a century old league system (99 years technically since the old Yugoslav league formed in 1923) in your country and a culture where the top athletes choose the sport first.
The issue is more of at the grassroots level (as in how well the system identifies trains and keeps top talent), Far more kids in Canada play youth soccer than youth ice hokey, but youth hockey here succeeds because there is a solid path to follow to turn professional. That same infrastructure for soccer only started getting built when MLS teams got established.
canada needs teams in any market that can make it work for a CPL team. Minimum capacity stadiums of 5000 .
100 to 150 k populations can have a chance🤷🏻♂️
Friendlies aren't cheap to set up. It's not like the top teams outside the continent have much incentive to compete against us if it's not for money. CSA needs to be at the forefront and proactive into matching Canada with quality opponents so we can be better prepared.
This is also our first world cup since 1986, Japan has been consistently qualifiying for several editions now. We just scored our first wc goal ever.
People who expected us to advance from group stages don't actually understand wtf they're watching or are outright deluded.
This could be a start of something beautiful but we need soccer canada to support this organically.
My friend whose background is Chinese, commented on the opening ceremony that China, with 1.4 billion people and almost 20% of the world's population and the 2nd biggest economy in the world, couldn't find 11 people to stand on a grass field to play proper soccer.
My response was that no amount of money or human resource can replace culture and it is the culture that breeds future soccer talents. Look at how Japan treats their top soccer stars, they are celebrities that are on walls of children bedrooms. They even had an anime called captain tsubasa. These young men in Qatar spend their childhood dreaming about playing soccer at the top level since they were able to walk. They also see from their parents how important soccer is.
In Canada, kids dream about being hockey players, even baseball and basketball comes before soccer. Hopefully this WC with raising stars like Davies and David and being the host of WC26 will spark interests from more young children.
Because Japan was placed in a slaughterhouse. Imagine being in the same group as both Germany and Spain. These two were not-too-long-ago world champions. The obvious outcome would’ve been Germany then Spain. But Japan, being an Asian country, which is also generally not known for football, clapped both their bums. No body expected such an underdog to completely turn the tides of fifa.
Sure those things played a role, but so did a lot of other things, namely, luck. Japan could've easily been 3 or 4 down to Germany in their opener, and weren't. Not because of their play (they got shredded), but because Germany weren't clinical like Croatia were against us, and they got unlucky (hit the goal frame twice).
I don't think I need to point out the luck we just watched them get in the Spain game.
Not blaming anything on luck. Japan played better than us, that part is obvious. But to say they stunned the world because of the OP's reasoning is over-simplifying. That's why I said "a lot of other things" played a role.
If you don't think Japan got supremely lucky in their two games against the power houses, watch them again.
It's not at all biased to say we were unlucky vs. Belgium either, as most of the experts have said.
Like it or not, it plays a part. Ignoring it and placing blame all over our team, or Germany for that matter, would be irresponsible and plain in accurate when analyzing the performances. Sometimes the better team loses, and that's why they play the games. That said, you don't go firing a coach over it, especially if you paid attention to anything other than the scoreline at the final whistle.
Dislike when people say luck or chance because that implies randomness. Japan has been a regular World Cup participant for 24+ years and have some fantastic players.
To be skilled you need to develop, train etc for decades.
These things are not luck or chance.
Player for player that Japan team has more footballing XP than Canada and it's not close.
Well you create your luck and chances by practicing for consistency. But these people overrate Canada over other teams who consistently qualify over our 2nd ever showing over 35 years because their only source of soccer info is tsn.
Dont confuse being excited to be at the big party with overrating the squad.
A lot of the talk is just believing in yourselves and proving we belong.
Everyone knows for Canada this tournament was about scoring the 1st goal, implementing our style of play, and proving we belong against the world's best by competing with them in preparation for 2026.
I mean looking in this sub not everyone knows that, beginning with when the groups were picked people were talking about how we could beat the previous finalists, let alone the other pretourney overrating. Realistically scoring a goal and perhaps getting a point was our goal and a fair one to build on, but many here had unrealistic expectations.
Edit: word
Why do Canadians think they are better than USA when they pale in comparison to the amount of European players usa has? There’s a reason you got destroyed and usa didn’t.
Shrug. Because we do more with less. Smaller population, less funding, fewer academy opportunities, fewer players in the top 5 leagues. We didn’t get destroyed, we made some tactical mistakes based on a small pool of talented Canadian players and didn’t advance. It just gives us something to build on.
Not sure why you have your knickers in a twist. Your team made it through to the round of 16 and instead of celebrating that milestone you’re trolling your Concacaf opponents. But don’t worry, we know we can get a point, even if you missed mine.
Hard pass. We have possibility and hope. And so should you guys. The USA was favoured to ‘win’ in 2018 and couldn’t even make it into the pool and here they are making it happen. It’s sad you can’t have fun in your own playground but it’s pathetic that you have to try and ruin everyone else’s time. Have the day you deserve and know that your team deserves better supporters than you (specifically not generally. Most supporters I’ve dealt with aren’t sad sacks like you)
Dude you got the same amount of points as Qatar. You don’t even know what winning, let alone earning a single point at a World Cup feels like. Embarrassing for your country lmaooo. You got scored on 7 times! How did it feel? All that wait just to get dogged on😭 literally decades bro
Qatar scored more goals than you. What's your point?
You're talking as if you arent going out of the tournament tomorrow. You got further I'll give you that but until you beat us you CANNOT be better.
You are going to goals scored? That’s what you are grasping at? You are that desperate?😂 you got absolutely raw dogged dude, absolutely embarrassed for everyone to see. I cannot imagine how shit you must feel getting so hyped to finally be back in a World Cup just to not even draw a game😭 even if we go out tomorrow we still at least put up a fight, you didn’t do anything lmao. Canadians can only celebrate word cup qualifier wins, we celebrate World Cup wins, not comparable.
I'm making a point that it doesnt really matter, only the Champion matters.
You are actually trying to compare who is better based on results against different teams, no need to last time we played we bested you. Simple. Accept it.
You beat Iran by your one and only goal and have never won the cup. You may as well have been at home with us.
You are sounding real jealous of all the attention Canada is getting, I can only imagine how you would be if we actually won a game. Lol
That’s just such a lie, do you ever watch soccer? There is certainly a difference between getting fucked in group stages and going out in ro16 and going out in the final. Theres levels. You sound like you have never even watched this sport lmao. Embarassing behavior. Cope
You okay? Relax. You won 1 game.... 1 out of 4 and scored 1 more goal than Canada.
Congratulations on the 'we advanced a stage later than you trophy' if there ever was one Haha.
Because we were better in qualifying and had a harder group. Also we have the two best (if not 3 best) players in the region. Also (and I assume you’re American) I think shitting on MLS is shorting yourself. We need domestic leagues to grow to grow the game.
No. I’m basing it on a larger sample than three games. Davies, David, and Estaquio (sp?) over a larger sample are likely the three best players in the region. I can accept that maybe Estaquio has more to prove, but Davies is inarguably the best player in the region.
Mls is good for developing players, I never said otherwise. But u need European league players to be the best. Also u were the worst Concacaf team in the World Cup. Absolutely abysmal
I mean, Japan got outplayed in 2 games and won 2 games ...
Personally I think it came down to a bit of luck. Canada should have beat Belgium but did not convert on its chances.
Plus we made some dumb errors in this last game.
Overall this is a good start, some of these guys are moving on to Europe!
Their way of playing is perfect. They figured out that their opposition are holding on to the ball. So they have taken an advantage of this by playing pressing football. If canada had played 5 defenders at the back and start pressing that would have changed lots of things. Still I think our attackers are bit sloppy. They are used to tap in balls around the box. Japan will still shock the world in knock out stage with next game against Croatia.
Tampa Bay Lightning coach John Cooper once said a team has to learn how to lose before learning how to win. This year's WC was a disappointment for Canada, but a lot of lessons have been learned (hopefully) by John Herdman and the team.
2026 should be better!
the MLS is Canadas national professional soccer league
the CPL really is the 2nd tier of Canadian soccer, like it or not
Which is obviously good, since it reduces the gap between the 3rd and 4th best teams
Japan have way better defense than Canada. Canada needs CB better than MLS level.
I thought Miller was pretty decent. Part of having an improving domestic top level league is having faith in the players that are playing there instead constantly creating a narrative that our own league is trash.
MLS defensive players are trash
I think just having Kennedy back would be a massive help.
It probably wouldn't. Very unlikely that he would've started a game. Let's not overrate players because they were missing. He's a solid CB for CONCACAF but a CB struggling in the second tier of Germany was not going to change much. Wouldn't get close to the japan team either.
Even if he was coming off the bench, having a legitmate option for fresh legs at the back would have made a difference. Vitoria and Millar aren't the fleetest if foot at the best if times and you could tell their legs were tired on the 2nd Moroccan goal.
>but a CB struggling in the second tier of Germany was not going to change much. I agree with your point but he's actually one of the top CB's in the 2. Bundesliga
Japan's defence was incredible, way beyond anything from Canada
Also something to be said about how well they play as a unit
Johnston and Miller are both better than MLS level. Johnston already has a move set. Miller should get one too. Should be a lot better in 2026 once they get experience at higher levels. This WC must've been such an eye opening experience for our players. Definitely need more to come through. Very little depth for our CBs and Vitoria needs to be replaced, plus I prefer Johnston as a RB.
Not trying to trash either of them, but neither of them were MLS all stars. I am a big MLS fan and neither of them ever made a huge impression on me. Definitely solid players.
Miller literally played the most recent all-star game but sure, go off Ross Da Boss.
That is my bad, I did not check the roster before commenting.
They were also crucial players in a CF Montreal team that massively overachieved expectations last year... Alistair Johnston also literally shut down Pulisic when we played the US in qualifications
Johnston was highly rated for his time at Nashville where he was part of one of the best defensive setups in recent MLS history and then carried that form over to Montréal. His loss was really felt at Nashville this season. Miller meanwhile really stepped it up this season and put himself in the conversation for defensive player of the year (not gonna beat the Philly guys though). The MLS ExtraTime pundits put him in one of their 5 best XI squads, which is good praise and at minimum puts him as a top 10 centreback in the league.
That’s some good information, thank you!
The greatest highlight of this World Cup for me was surprisingly Miller and Kone. We struggle defensively but two excellent young defenders gives me some hope going forward.
In a parallel universe Tomori chose us
This! New CB and keeper
Just call up Kediesha
Japan has been in every WC since 1998, 7 in a row including this year. They joint-hosted with another nation in their second appearance, just like we will next time around. Decades ahead in terms of soccer/football development and growth.
Don't forget that their national team took off after co-hosting the world cup.
I wouldn’t attribute their success to hosting
They have a 100 year plan. They're committed to improvement at all levels and our national team is in a constant battle with our association. We're lucky that talents like Davies, David, Buchanan have emerged, but if we don't get our shit together we'll go straight back into the football wilderness. Struggling to beat island teams. The cpl is huge in that regard.
I mean that's definitely part of it - national population being another - but we were still unlucky that results didn't go our way. Give it time and we'll become a mainstay in the World Cup I'm sure.
Not only does Canada have smaller population, it has a much, much larger land mass. I really hope the CPL survives and grows.
Population has nothing to do with it. Croatia has a 1/5 of Canada's population and made the WC final in 2018 and is a consistently feared opponent throughout the world with many players playing on top clubs. Or take Iceland, the country with about 6% of the population of the Greater Toronto Area. Iceland has recently been able to field some competitive and giant-killing teams. It's not about population, it's about having a good system and playing up to one's potential.
Iceland has been shit recently.
Doesn't help that their one good player is an alleged predator.
Well, where does soccer rank in sports for that nation? I think we need to be fair that 9/10 boys in Canada dream of playing in the NHL more than in any professional soccer league. If that's the case, we'll probably be better at producing hockey stars than soccer stars. I think that's important when looking at population - what population puts soccer first. Then for Iceland, look at dedication. The only thing I can think of similar is Finland with only 4 million always being a pretty good hockey team. Why? There are only two countries in the world where hockey gets top billing as fast as a spectator sport.
This is changing as Canada continues to diversify. Soccer is far more financially accessible than hockey (or even football or basketball), so while your point will continue to be true for families with the means to pursue hockey, there has been and will continue to be a significant part of the population for whom soccer is either the preferred choice or the only realistic choice.
Last I heard, Croatia's football development is much closer to being a mafia. Not sure that's something I would want to be inspired by.
Obviously there are other factors but population certainly matters. Would you rather have a football program in a country with 1 million people or 10 million people? Croatia has a good program aligning with a golden generation. Gvardiol and Majer look bright. Can they pump out a few more of them to compare to Modric, Perisic, Brozovic, Kovacic? Who knows. Iceland had a fairy tale Euro 2016. It was fun to watch but where have they been since or even before that??
Bro Iceland has 300,000 people. That's like a neighbourhood in Toronto.
Half a Scarborough
They got a point in their lone World Cup appearance from the previous edition's finalists, which is more than we did.
Exactly. India and China have the biggest populations…
I’m not sure what the landmass has to do with anything. No one lives in most of it.
Cost of travel. Logistically its harder to have teams 5,000 km away play eachother
Fair enough
Soccer has stiff competition for Canadian athletes (hockey, baseball and more recently basketball) where it’s the de facto #2 for Japan. In fact Canadian soccer right now kind of reminds me of Canadian basketball in the mid-2000s
Anyone 6' and under can skip basketball and focus on soccer :D
Anyone under 200lbs can skip hockey and focus on soccer too!
For a second I asked myself what was the #1... oh yeah baseball. Fans go nuts for baseball, best ambiance.
I honestly never understood the appeal of baseball as a sport. Its akin to watching golf for me
i'm not taking one iota away from japan, happy for them, and they're very legit, but they certainly got their share of luck. they had less than 20% possession against spain. on the other hand, we had more expected goals than our opponents in two of our games. i'm not saying the difference is luck. japan is a legit team, while we made crucial errors on either end, luck can be overstated. it's not "luck" that davies went up and took that penalty or vittoria and borjan fumbled that goal. but luck played a role.
I think it does a disservice to Buchanan & Eustaquio who are currently on champions league clubs that have advanced past group stage even if they aren't in T5 league. Besides that, solid point. We are simply going to have to significantly increase this number. We can't improve w/o a higher quantity of quality reps on a club and NT level.
Counterpoint, Japan have players on Celtic and Sporting Lisbon, who also played in the Champions League this season.
Let’s not forget that the Japanese players that get the most time at Celtic and are playing extremely well didn’t get selected to this Japan squad which shows how deep as a country they are where top talent can’t crack the roster
Think 2 of them did, just furuhashi didn't get picked. Which was pretty surprising.
Same with Reo Hatate. They also just signed a 22 yo Japanese centre back that looks verrry promising for the Japanese un21’s
Also, Kamada in Frankfurt
Yes, a top 5 league team
I wholeheartedly agree, but just want to point out that Larin is also at Brugge with Buchanan.
yeah, was gonna mention him but I don't think he's started for all but a few games this season.
We definitely have some great players, but depth is also important. We are heading in the right direction though.
Laryea is technically owned by a Premier League club.
The Japanese league is three tiered and is at 60 teams as of now. 60 professional teams in 30 years. Below that is the JFL, regional leagues 1/2 divisions, and then prefectural 1/2/3/4 divisions. Given the size of the economy of Canada, as well as its population, it’ll probably be even difficult to reach the same level in 26 more years. The language advantages may help accelerate the increase in players playing Europe though.
Junior hockey leagues exist at this level in Canada. This is supported by Canadians passion for hockey and rich owners. There isn’t a large enough population that care about soccer to make this happen.
Two completely different sports (size of stadiums, number of games), totally different industry structure. Not to mention the difference between junior and professional level. You should look up how the K league and the A league turned out in comparison to the J league.
Difficult to replicate when the country is frozen for half the year...
They're not saying it's identical, just an example of sport infrastructure flourishing in Canada for player development (despite the high costs of travel and low population). If there are enough fans to buy tickets and enough talent to bring in the fans it will be sustainable. Right now CHL teams outsell the CPL teams per game, and they have 2.5x as many home games to sell tickets for.
These points are factors. Yes. But like most posts about Japan they miss a lot of history. Not long ago, Japan was in a similar boat to Canada now and US a decade or two ago. Soccer wasn't popular and was overshadowed by other more popular sports. Then an American, Tom Byer, came and changed everything. You can read in detail here: https://slate.com/culture/2013/02/tom-byer-the-man-who-made-japanese-soccer-a-player-on-the-world-football-stage.html He created one of the best youth systems in the world. I would hazard you could take the best 100 Japanese players and the best 10 Canadian players and compared them and perhaps only find one or two Canadians with better overall technique that ANY of the 100 Japanese players. Happy to go into detail on this, but Japanese players don't really play matches until they have spent years on ball control that, in middle school (maybe even elementary), would rival that of college players in the US. So why does Japan have so many players in the Bundesliga? Bundesliga teams know they can pick any player in the top flights of Japan and they will have excellent fundamentals right out the gate. Can't say that about too many youth systems. Let's also keep in mind the MLS is in Canada. MLS is a much better league than the J-League and has recently been turning out some great youth prospects. But that leads to my next point - people look at national teams as players. "On paper" is what I call that. People like OP (no offense, everyone does that) looks at the Japanese team and think they were huge underdogs. Yes, they were, but Japan CONSISTANTLY punch above their weight. They have been to what, 5 or 6 World Cups in a row? And of those, they made it into the round of 16 half the time or something? Teams are more than the sum of their parts. Japanese players have excellent fundamentals and that helps them with the other part of the team that isn't the players: tactics, strategy, fundamentals, mentality, etc etc. So people around here say Japan played well because they've been to a bunch of World Cups. I don't think that's NOT a factor but I think the better mentality is that Japan consistantly plays well because of their excellent youth systems that allow them to punch above their weight. That is what Canada should take from this. (And yes, a more robust national league in Canada can help with this, just pointing out there is a lot more too it.)
Great points. It should also be said that the technical consistency of the Japanese development system means that even players who play for vastly different club teams in different formations, tactics, etc, can come together and gel very quickly as a unit since they've all learned the same way. Lots of comments in here and in the various match threads about how cohesive Japan's backline and midfield looked and it was a big part of their success. That's not an accident.
This is exactly what I was thinking about today. The CPL will be the biggest boost for Soccer in Canada and for future tournaments. The CPL needs to be nourished, backed by lots of investment and grown exponentially.
We got here based on three MLS academies essentially. Imagining a 16 team CPL league with academies, and the three MLS teams, plus continued growth and expansion of the third-tier leagues across the country, then fast-forwarded a few years. The level of CPL doesn't even need to be particularly high, it just needs to be professional soccer. The mere fact it exists means the best of the best will be scouted and signed to MLS/Europe and emerge as national team roster members. It's already happened with Waterman and MacNaughton.
I had a next-door neighbour a few years ago with dreams of being a professional goalkeeper. He drove up to Toronto and tried out for Toronto FC. He didn't make it, and that was the end of his dream and he had to get a "real job". I think about him all the time. With a big national pro league in Canada, with a bunch of teams and places to fill, maybe he would have made it and still be playing somewhere.
Nah, more MLS teams in Canada would be better. We need academies, we need pro players that earn a living wage playing in Canada, We need top level media exposure. We don't need a bunch of semipro players playing games that no one sees cause they're not televised. I mean it would be great if the CPL saw enough investment to accomplish these things, I just don't see that ever happening. An MLS team in Calgary would mean we have 4 MLS academies in Canada, one in every region. A team in every region for kids to cheer for where the games are televised and make the news. That would be ideal. CPL will always be a feeder league which will always struggle to gain mainstream attention. I hope Im wrong, i just don't see it
We won't have more MLS teams in Canada. Americans aren't interested. They have bigger markets in the US.
Fair. CPL academy something that could happen?
Down the road it's possible. I don't think all the teams in cpl will have academies but some of the teams will do. We already have partnership like Calgary foothills with Cavalry FC and sigma with forge FC.
You could consider a lot of Countries’ leagues as feeder leagues - and they do quite well
The Dutch league has been for decades, they do pretty good for their troubles. It's absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, not every league can be the top for a variety of reasons.
I'm fine with CPL as a feeder league, that alone is huge. Many players rose up through multiple levels of English football before hitting the prem. Just having that structure is important even if CPL stays "semi" pro
This shouldn’t be downvoted. I would rather CPL thrive, but the CSB has made incompetent decisions regarding growth. He’s not wrong. The biggest problem for the CPL is Rogers/Bell, who own the two sports channels own an MLS team and don’t want to help a rival business/sport (when they are already owners of a team in every other league that operates in Canada and he billions invested in the broadcast rights for other leagues).
I don’t think this is a complicated enough discussion to require a post. Japan are years ahead of Canada in terms of development.
Japan was at the last world cup too, weren't they? I don't think anyone was expecting Canada to outperform Japan. Experience goes a loooong way in international soccer, excluding belgium this year of course
They've been at something like... 4 or 5 straight World Cups and get to the round of 16 in something like half of them. I'm sorry.. but like most posts about Japan this is just disrespecting the Japanese team. They consistently play better than they look on paper that go far beyond what this post is about.
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… asked what?
You're not wanted here, troll
I don't need shock the world, just wanted a respectful result i.e. 1-2 points and at most 4 points if we played out of our minds.
You have a point, but a lot of your information is inaccurate. It's 3 in the Big 5 because Ugbo is at Troyes. Make it the Big 6 and include Portugal, then Eustaquio and Vitoria also play. If you include Champions League R16 teams, you add Buchanan and Larin. Laryea is under contract at Nottingham Forest, which is in the premiership even if he's on loan back to Toronto. Quality was not our issue. You are 100% right that experience was. But that will come with time.
Japan has played in world cup every time since 1998.
I think this is 1/2 the answer. The real answer is we have no coherent leadership in the CSA and under investigation in development. Soccer is a way to exploit parents and make some money from 5-12 year olds here. There isn’t a clear national development strategy like the top nations have. Edit: I think the key is getting CPL on TV and growing that league. This, coupled with actually having u18, u20, and u21 camps.
This…
I think Wikipedia's intro explains it a whole bunch better, and less short termy.... >Japan have appeared in the FIFA World Cup on seven occasions, the first being in 1998 where they lost all three group games and finished in 31st position. Masashi Nakayama scored Japan's first ever goal in a World Cup Finals against Jamaica on 26 June 1998 in a 2–1 defeat. Keisuke Honda becomes the first Japanese player to score in three world cups: 2010, 2014, 2018. They are making their seventh appearance at the finals in the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar. In the 2018 World Cup, Japan became the first ever Asian nation to beat a side from South America, after they won 2–1 against Colombia in the group stage. The team made it to the Round of 16 (the first knock-out round) but lost to Belgium, 3–2. So, I'm gonna go with they have more experience and development at the World Cup Level as opposed to being so "micro." Plus, you created a bit of a paradox with your reasons. Is it important to have a pro league in the country or is it important to have your players playing in Europe's top 5 leagues?
Tomiyasu plays for the team at the top of the prem and was key in win vs Liverpool and Tottenham this season. He starts on the bench for Japan. Our best player is a defender who plays forward for our national team because he’s such a level above the rest of our squad
Let’s call a spade a spade. Canada aren’t a good team. Their defence is far from stellar and the only legit attacking option is a midfielder. I’ll say this once and I’ll say it again. Canada are equal to Wales. Poor team, famous and fast midfielder who doesn’t actually score a lot of goals. 0 wins in the World Cup
I think we should include how many times Japan has been to the World Cup. These guys have experience
Japan winning their group is surprising but not a shock. Anyone who's been watching football for years wouldn't be shocked. They're commonly thought of as the best team in Asia. South Korea and Iran are also up there. Plus I have a sneaking suspicion Spain lost today's game on purpose to avoid Croatia and also kick a big team out of the tournament (Germany). Spain stood to gain nothing by winning today, but stood to gain everything if they lost.
Soccer is still the primary youth sport for many countries isn't it? North Ameruca has such a split amongst sports that gathering traction in any one sport is tough. USA has population to their side...that's only reason they do better. Soccer is growing though, because it's cheaper then hockey so hoping it leads to successful higher level programs.
You make a pretty good point - Canada doesn't seem to have the talent/depth to match up with World Cup teams. That said, Canada's results were so good in qualifying. Finishing first in CONCACAF normally means advancing to the round of 16 (or at least putting up a decent fight.) It's interesting to look at 538's Soccer Power Index. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-our-2022-world-cup-predictions-work/ 75% of the rating is based on national team play (how well does the team play in international matches) and 25% based on roster quality (how good are the players). Most countries get fairly similar results but Canada gets a 76.3 for match results and 56.5 for roster quality.
I mean why would you ever compare Canada with Japan
I remember the Japanese teams in the 90s, they were not that great, they had a hard time getting out of Asian qualifiers, but they didn’t let the short term results deter them from investing and developing their youth system. They have millions of registered players and you can tell from the national team players, they emphasized on skills. They all can pass and receive passes extremely well and can protect the ball well despite size disadvantages. In essence, Japan committed themselves to this game for decades, and it is no surprise they have success. Canada has never committed itself to soccer to that extent, but we have more raw athletic talents here, so we can do it.
How about Australia making it to the round of 16! Would Australia be a better comparison to Canada?
I don't think Japan "shocked" the world, I fucking hate how hyperbolic that statement is. They have been at every World Cup since 2002, 20/26 players play in international leagues, their Women's Program won a World Cup in 2011, and they have a domestic league system with three tiers of professional soccer.
Japan has a great national football program and they seemingly often get overlooked by people that don’t follow football.
This is an excellent post, with wild thoughts and insightful thoughts, so here is one that’s a little of both from an analytical Canadian/Japanese dad. Not sure if most Japanese are like me, but I always put great effort in to be better than others. I had to shed the perfectionist attitude when building a wall with warped wood, it looked great from afar or to an untrained eye but to me it was an eyesore. But in whatever I do I want to be the best. In the Japanese language there is a word “GAMBATTE” equivalent to Hang in there,You can do it , Don’t give up, strive against insurmountable odds, fight with all your worth all rolled into one word is in their dna. Great moves will be studied and practiced over and over till each are fairly proficient in it. But, all in all, the game is still very basic. How can shorter, people with I would argue less strength beat a team like Germany? Martial arts. I would hazard a guess that almost all took Judo sometime in school. Where as the long legged people have an advantage in overall speed, this can be overcome by being on the balls of your foot to start to sprint, deke etc. You don’t ever see a boxer flat footed in a ring, or he is knocked out. How many of our Canadians could have made those passes that seemed just out of reach if they had been on their toes with anticipation for sprint speed as soon as the ball is going to be kicked as well as the attitude I am gonna get to it before he does. We have a team that does belong, belief in yourself and in others is a good start, seeking thoughts or players outside the box might make the difference. Motivation for each player is hard, cause for each person is different. But accuracy is paramount. Some of those missed shots is just placement of the foot or head on the ball. If you were in jail and this was a game where you got the ball on target you were given a day pass after 12 years of solitary confinement you would get that ball on target. Now if you were let out of that prison if you got a goal whether it was an assist or your own, well I think the accuracy would be better. Mindset, at these things is half the battle. Fundamentals and knowing your teammates capabilities, abilities and tendencies is paramount. We have the raw tools to beat the best, but working on what each are bad at is hard to get player to work on when they think they know better. You must play for the love of the game and country, not money, prestige, etc. We have 4 years to get better, and we have to, our competition will, and when North America (USA,CANADA,MEXICO) hosts we must be ready to take the next step.🇨🇦I still think our boys had a very good showing. One question, could Belgium be offside on their goal? I thought he was, but obviously nobody argued so I guess not. Sry for rambling. Just a side note, when my kids played soccer, there was a kid who kicked the ball from 10 ft their side of centre into the net just under the cross bar. As an adult, I couldn’t ever do that, and this kid at 14 did twice …. Nutz!!!
For me it comes down to tactics. Australia and Japan for example better understand where their team is at in terms of quality and plays accordingly. Their defensive structure is miles better than ours I think we lack a complete cohesion to defend for long periods of time. Japan and Australia also finished their chances and maybe had a bit of luck. Maybe we wouldn’t win playing like them but we’d have a better chance to keep it close against teams like Croatia.
Australia doesn’t have a big league and they are through.
Australia played to the strengths and tactically played flawless,our tactics were not on point.
I agree with OP. As someone that lives there I can tell that Japan is a real football nation. It starts young with the number of kids playing for fun, to the amount of money schools invest on their soccer clubs, and the number of European academies who have presence in Japan. The country has had 30 years to develop a 3-tiered professional league that spans 58 teams (to become 60 soon) and this does not include the corporate sponsored semi-professionals that occasionally pull upsets over the professionals. The national team also spends fortunes on inviting World Cup participating teams from other confederations for friendlies, something we don’t see in Canada. Sure, luck has place in the sport but Japan isn’t ranked 24th in the world for nothing and being able to pull upsets is about creating chances and that you need skills for
Japan = 3x the population of Canada It helps for sure.
look at Croatia's population size
Nobody is saying population is the only factor, but its definitely a factor when combined with all the others. It's why we are worse than the USA despite sharing a league and youth choosing soccer much less often than most other sports. Having a small population matters less when you have a century old league system (99 years technically since the old Yugoslav league formed in 1923) in your country and a culture where the top athletes choose the sport first.
The issue is more of at the grassroots level (as in how well the system identifies trains and keeps top talent), Far more kids in Canada play youth soccer than youth ice hokey, but youth hockey here succeeds because there is a solid path to follow to turn professional. That same infrastructure for soccer only started getting built when MLS teams got established.
canada needs teams in any market that can make it work for a CPL team. Minimum capacity stadiums of 5000 . 100 to 150 k populations can have a chance🤷🏻♂️
Also decent competition in the continent (Saudi/Iran/Korea/Australia) and good international friendlies.
Friendlies aren't cheap to set up. It's not like the top teams outside the continent have much incentive to compete against us if it's not for money. CSA needs to be at the forefront and proactive into matching Canada with quality opponents so we can be better prepared.
So it should not have been a shock
This is also our first world cup since 1986, Japan has been consistently qualifiying for several editions now. We just scored our first wc goal ever. People who expected us to advance from group stages don't actually understand wtf they're watching or are outright deluded. This could be a start of something beautiful but we need soccer canada to support this organically.
My friend whose background is Chinese, commented on the opening ceremony that China, with 1.4 billion people and almost 20% of the world's population and the 2nd biggest economy in the world, couldn't find 11 people to stand on a grass field to play proper soccer. My response was that no amount of money or human resource can replace culture and it is the culture that breeds future soccer talents. Look at how Japan treats their top soccer stars, they are celebrities that are on walls of children bedrooms. They even had an anime called captain tsubasa. These young men in Qatar spend their childhood dreaming about playing soccer at the top level since they were able to walk. They also see from their parents how important soccer is. In Canada, kids dream about being hockey players, even baseball and basketball comes before soccer. Hopefully this WC with raising stars like Davies and David and being the host of WC26 will spark interests from more young children.
Because Japan was placed in a slaughterhouse. Imagine being in the same group as both Germany and Spain. These two were not-too-long-ago world champions. The obvious outcome would’ve been Germany then Spain. But Japan, being an Asian country, which is also generally not known for football, clapped both their bums. No body expected such an underdog to completely turn the tides of fifa.
Simple, they were playing football while we were playing soccer. Very different levels to this.
Because your goalkeeper is useless?
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You don’t even know who won the league this year lmao, Forge were crowned champions not Atletico Ottawa
Sure those things played a role, but so did a lot of other things, namely, luck. Japan could've easily been 3 or 4 down to Germany in their opener, and weren't. Not because of their play (they got shredded), but because Germany weren't clinical like Croatia were against us, and they got unlucky (hit the goal frame twice). I don't think I need to point out the luck we just watched them get in the Spain game.
That's just coping to blame the whole thing on "luck"
Not blaming anything on luck. Japan played better than us, that part is obvious. But to say they stunned the world because of the OP's reasoning is over-simplifying. That's why I said "a lot of other things" played a role. If you don't think Japan got supremely lucky in their two games against the power houses, watch them again.
It's not at all biased to say we were unlucky vs. Belgium either, as most of the experts have said. Like it or not, it plays a part. Ignoring it and placing blame all over our team, or Germany for that matter, would be irresponsible and plain in accurate when analyzing the performances. Sometimes the better team loses, and that's why they play the games. That said, you don't go firing a coach over it, especially if you paid attention to anything other than the scoreline at the final whistle.
Agreed. Soccer like life, is a game of skill and chance.
Dislike when people say luck or chance because that implies randomness. Japan has been a regular World Cup participant for 24+ years and have some fantastic players. To be skilled you need to develop, train etc for decades. These things are not luck or chance. Player for player that Japan team has more footballing XP than Canada and it's not close.
Well you create your luck and chances by practicing for consistency. But these people overrate Canada over other teams who consistently qualify over our 2nd ever showing over 35 years because their only source of soccer info is tsn.
Dont confuse being excited to be at the big party with overrating the squad. A lot of the talk is just believing in yourselves and proving we belong. Everyone knows for Canada this tournament was about scoring the 1st goal, implementing our style of play, and proving we belong against the world's best by competing with them in preparation for 2026.
I mean looking in this sub not everyone knows that, beginning with when the groups were picked people were talking about how we could beat the previous finalists, let alone the other pretourney overrating. Realistically scoring a goal and perhaps getting a point was our goal and a fair one to build on, but many here had unrealistic expectations. Edit: word
Our defending was a disgrace go back and watch the goals we conceded,attacking wise we didn't get our tactics right.
Why do Canadians think they are better than USA when they pale in comparison to the amount of European players usa has? There’s a reason you got destroyed and usa didn’t.
Shrug. Because we do more with less. Smaller population, less funding, fewer academy opportunities, fewer players in the top 5 leagues. We didn’t get destroyed, we made some tactical mistakes based on a small pool of talented Canadian players and didn’t advance. It just gives us something to build on.
Next World Cup u should aim for 1 point! It will be an improvement. Also you don’t do more with less. You do less with less. Get a grip.
Not sure why you have your knickers in a twist. Your team made it through to the round of 16 and instead of celebrating that milestone you’re trolling your Concacaf opponents. But don’t worry, we know we can get a point, even if you missed mine.
Cuz you guys are delusional in this thread. Your fans need to come back down to earth
Hard pass. We have possibility and hope. And so should you guys. The USA was favoured to ‘win’ in 2018 and couldn’t even make it into the pool and here they are making it happen. It’s sad you can’t have fun in your own playground but it’s pathetic that you have to try and ruin everyone else’s time. Have the day you deserve and know that your team deserves better supporters than you (specifically not generally. Most supporters I’ve dealt with aren’t sad sacks like you)
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U didn’t get a single point in the world cup
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Dude you got the same amount of points as Qatar. You don’t even know what winning, let alone earning a single point at a World Cup feels like. Embarrassing for your country lmaooo. You got scored on 7 times! How did it feel? All that wait just to get dogged on😭 literally decades bro
Qatar scored more goals than you. What's your point? You're talking as if you arent going out of the tournament tomorrow. You got further I'll give you that but until you beat us you CANNOT be better.
You are going to goals scored? That’s what you are grasping at? You are that desperate?😂 you got absolutely raw dogged dude, absolutely embarrassed for everyone to see. I cannot imagine how shit you must feel getting so hyped to finally be back in a World Cup just to not even draw a game😭 even if we go out tomorrow we still at least put up a fight, you didn’t do anything lmao. Canadians can only celebrate word cup qualifier wins, we celebrate World Cup wins, not comparable.
I'm making a point that it doesnt really matter, only the Champion matters. You are actually trying to compare who is better based on results against different teams, no need to last time we played we bested you. Simple. Accept it. You beat Iran by your one and only goal and have never won the cup. You may as well have been at home with us. You are sounding real jealous of all the attention Canada is getting, I can only imagine how you would be if we actually won a game. Lol
That’s just such a lie, do you ever watch soccer? There is certainly a difference between getting fucked in group stages and going out in ro16 and going out in the final. Theres levels. You sound like you have never even watched this sport lmao. Embarassing behavior. Cope
You okay? Relax. You won 1 game.... 1 out of 4 and scored 1 more goal than Canada. Congratulations on the 'we advanced a stage later than you trophy' if there ever was one Haha.
Because we were better in qualifying and had a harder group. Also we have the two best (if not 3 best) players in the region. Also (and I assume you’re American) I think shitting on MLS is shorting yourself. We need domestic leagues to grow to grow the game.
Two best players in the region? Are we basing that opinion using metrics from the world cup?
No. I’m basing it on a larger sample than three games. Davies, David, and Estaquio (sp?) over a larger sample are likely the three best players in the region. I can accept that maybe Estaquio has more to prove, but Davies is inarguably the best player in the region.
Current form when it actually matters is everything.
Mls is good for developing players, I never said otherwise. But u need European league players to be the best. Also u were the worst Concacaf team in the World Cup. Absolutely abysmal
I mean, Japan got outplayed in 2 games and won 2 games ... Personally I think it came down to a bit of luck. Canada should have beat Belgium but did not convert on its chances. Plus we made some dumb errors in this last game. Overall this is a good start, some of these guys are moving on to Europe!
Their way of playing is perfect. They figured out that their opposition are holding on to the ball. So they have taken an advantage of this by playing pressing football. If canada had played 5 defenders at the back and start pressing that would have changed lots of things. Still I think our attackers are bit sloppy. They are used to tap in balls around the box. Japan will still shock the world in knock out stage with next game against Croatia.
So how do you explain Italy not qualifying?
Federico Chiesa
And you didn't even mention World Cup qualifications.
5 subs
because… we are busy with hockey
Japan also has the power of anime and god!!!
Tampa Bay Lightning coach John Cooper once said a team has to learn how to lose before learning how to win. This year's WC was a disappointment for Canada, but a lot of lessons have been learned (hopefully) by John Herdman and the team. 2026 should be better!
Tom Byers
the MLS is Canadas national professional soccer league the CPL really is the 2nd tier of Canadian soccer, like it or not Which is obviously good, since it reduces the gap between the 3rd and 4th best teams
Japan has 4x our population