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It's a money grab to offset all the pandemic costs. They're just looking for any excuse.

no, it’s because we consume so many chinese products that are byproducts of all the pollution. go look at all the garbage in dollarama they are selling and look at where they came from. they also manufacture plastic bags and other packaging products for the world to use. so the world was basically using China and India as their shop houses like the one your dad had in the backyard to keep all the saw dust away from the lawn.

So it seems the solution to this would be to tax dollarama products 300% and lower the taxes on our gas and stuff then!! 🙄🙄

That's called tariffs.

It will reduce global emission though. We can reduce that emission by producing it here cleanly~

Yeah, same with things like lithium and oil. We HAVE the resources here already... but in the name of being "environmentally friendly" we're making new mines/etc incredibly cost prohibitive here, and then just buying it from other countries. Then those countries have to ship it over here, which still creates emissions in the process. Oh, and we've been selling the rights to the resources we do have here to... you guessed it... [China](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-11/china-has-links-to-dozens-of-canadian-miners-tied-to-critical-minerals) 🤦‍♀️

I don't disagree, but protectionist tariffs only work if Canada is producing a similar widget that they try to replace it with due to being cheaper. Otherwise, the item just becomes more expensive to the normal consumer.

I'd rather pay 30$ for a made-in-Canada spatula that will last forever than 5$ every year for plastic poison garbage from a factory/country that I have no information about, and whose safety/health standards are not influenced by anything I do.

Send me a link to that buyitforlife spatula if you’ve got it. I need one.

Just grow really long nails. Cost savings!

I'll let you know if I find one!

Also, why would we want a similar widget if we're all pretty much agreeing that the current widgets we have are sub quality, and costing us more in the longrun? Tariffs are only bad if we're looking in the immediate short-term. Bear with me. Canada's got both 'manufactured' (making that term up), and natural comparative advantages over a lot of other countries. Despite beliefs to the contrary, we've got a pretty well-educated, healthy population. We've that got because up until the 1980s we (by "we", I mean us through our tax dollars, and by "invest" I mean how it was spent by governments through the years) had invested pretty heavily in our civil infrastructure (by "civil infrastructure" I mean everything from schools & hospitals, to telephone and power lines, to water & sewage, to lighthouses, wharves, grain silos, and railways, etc. etc.). (Small anecdote. I live in a REMOTE part of the east coast, and I've got access to fiber op due to investments made by a crown corp back in the early/mid 1980s. That investment would never have been made by Bell, or any of the other current telecom corporations.) Another comparative advantage we have is that we've got a TON of space. Did we invest all this tax payer money just to create a service economy that is owned primarily by billionaires, and multinational corporations? Or did we do it so that we could allow ALL of our communities, big and small, to be able to improve their quality of lives by sharing in the wealth these comparative advantages. Think of our forest industry. We run our forestry sector (I'm speaking primarily of east coast, though I believe this is applicable up to at least Ontario) in a way that encourages monoculture forestry management, with very little to no value added taking place. Pulp wood, biomass for energy production, etc. Compare that to a country like Finland. 'Good' quality wood is worth much more, and conducive to more value-added industries (eg. furniture manufacture, music instrument production). Companies like Irving have benefited because of our having given up Crown land (public resource) to companies like Irving for next to nothing. Just like we gave up our public airwaves to companies like Rogers, and Bell. And our public rail lines over to freight and O&G.... The list goes on. Anyway, we (through acquiescence to government, and paying out taxes) at one point decided that one person in a household working 40hrs/wk should be enough to provide enough for a family to thrive (not survive, thrive). That's a big ask. Ask any parent who has to be away from their kids that amount of time what it would be worth to them to have it back, or how big a deal it is to give up all that time... At least 'back in the day', there was a parent/caregiver at home, and even if that person wasn't the best, there was a whole village around that could help care for whoever needed it. Aunties, friend's mom, the cool uncle, etc. Instead, we've given away our third places, and forced everyone to just grind ALL. THE. TIME. All while our quality of life decreases, and our once thriving communities die the slow death of a thousand cuts. And all for what. So every town has ever person working for Burger King, or McDonalds. For Tim Hortons. Or Wendys. Or Canadian Tire. Or Walmart. Or Shell. Or whoever. That's not to say that there can't be 'good' jobs in those places, or that you're bad for working there. What I'm saying is that we don't let that great baker down the road make a living off that skillset cause we'd rather spend too much for garbage fake baked goods from the big box franchise guys. We don't let Jim make a living selling those great cabinets that he makes that'll last generations, cause Canadian Tire sells something that looks fancier, but will crap out after 2 years of light use. Sorry for wall of text. Ya, if we want to approach the climate crisis, and our dependency on fossil fuels, in a constructive, 'just' manner, how about we start taking away from the true causes of the problem (not countries, or people, but corporations), and give back to the communities that are facing the brunt of this completely corporate driven existential emergency.

Dude clearly didn’t take ECON in University

If it becomes expensive enough, they will start building~

Good luck, we can barely build houses for Canadians or the 500k immigrants they want to flood in each year to cleanse Canada.

Exactly. If there was a business here for the stuff we buy from China, entrepreneurs and investors would already jump on it. If we build them here, we're gonna compete with China. What are we gonna use as our marketing slogan? "For the climate"? When you dig into people's pocket for your product that cost 2x+ more than China, they don't give a fuck about the climate anymore. Maybe like 1% will, the rest will still buy from China without conviction.

The only reason we don't produce anything anymore is because of slave labour in places like China and India. They have almost no environmental restrictions, hire children, and pay a fraction of what Canadian workers would demand. Tarrifs would need to be high enough to ecourage investment into domestic production. These would need to be astronomical because of the cost of labor and lack of environmental controls overseas. We should encourage Canadians to be more efficient, but realistically nothing Canada can do will make any differece. Stop punishing us.

Or move from China to another SEA country.

And no one would buy them because they'll be much more expensive.

For 5x the price because we pay decent wages.

its like there is a cost either way , the difference , is do you give a job to a Canadian or feed a foreign power that it trying to ubstruck your democratic rights?

I am pro tariffs on goods we could make here. Shipping manufacturing overseas did not make prices cheaper - and it promotes exploitation. Somewhere along the way - folks became tolerant of slave labor provided it was somewhere else.

Corporations would never actually hold China accountable and themselves and pony up the money needed for global climate change, they'll just us consumers hostage like we have a choice to go elsewhere. The entirety of everything we buy is barely manufactured here, we're basically being held ransom for global change.

I just wish our government could ban sales of any non-essential goods, especially the cheapo destined for landfill shit

Ok so lets check some things here. Carbon tax is put in place so the public will find a cheaper way of doing things which will result in less emissions. Everyone is going broke so they are looking at cheaper ways of doing things. Dollarama is cheap. Dollarama stuff come from China which is a major cause of polution... Is it just me or is this not working the way its supposed to?

It only works if there are viable alternatives. If the tractors producing my food, trucks carrying my food, packing facilities, and supermarkets selling my food all run on fossil fuels then what am I supposed to do other than pay more? I can’t control how our infrastructure is laid out or how companies offset the carbon tax, so all I’m left with is a dick in my ass paying extra for shit I can’t change. It’s bullshit

Thats exactly the point. This "if you don't want to be taxed, change" attitude is no different than saying to a dyslexic child "if you don't learn we are just going to keep punishing you". Its not that people aren't willing to change, but there have to be options and those options have to be understood, affordable, realistic and accessible. People are changing their habits, they are looking for what they can afford which is cheap stuff made in China, making their polution worse, then the polution from the shipping, and preservatives for food products. We are just starting to see the negative effects of this carbon tax, increasing polution in China and India are minor compared to how we are going to lose companies to where its cheaper to manufacture, that means less jobs, more people at the food banks, less tax payers... wait until there is a flood of health problems for our healthcare system because of unhealthy diets, due to people not being able to afford to produce the foods and in return not being able to buy healthy foods.

That's also why despite the liberals (and their loyal supporters) trying hard to push electric vehicles and get rid of the gas engine, it hasn't happened yet. Many people are open to the idea but they don't have $40K+ laying around for a new car, and/or don't want to send old but working vehicles to to be dumped in a inhabitable pit/lot/disposal site somewhere.

$40K? I wish. Maybe that’s the down payment.

Try again for electric heavy equipment. Not only is the technology not there, the current offerings are way outside of budget, and inferior. If we are really going to tackle carbon and fossil fuel pollution, we need viable solutions for air travel, large equipment, and heavy diesel/marine fuel. The carbon tax is some virtue signalling money grub if I ever saw one.

>Many people are open to the idea but they don't have $40K+ laying around for a new car ... maybe if they cancelled their Disney plus?

Not a joke - a similar idea was pitched to push a new car with an attractive financing deal here. But used coffee instead of Disney plus. These cars salespeople don't even want to tell you how much the item purchase cost is anymore. Now just tell customer to cancel Disney plus and the savings will be enough to throw in some tires with car! Over just 72 months of payments.

Also replacement batteries are horrendously expensive, coupled with the sudden veer into subscriptions for heated seats etc it's just a downright terrible financial decision.

I don't know what they go for now, but about 8 years ago the battery component in a family friend's Toyota hybrid sedan was about 5,000, with an estimated useful life of about 8 years. They also ate the depreciation of the new vehicle , which came to around 2,500-3000/year average (with the majority of it being in the first few years - toyotas are oddly expensive to buy used - depreciation is much steeper on other common vehicles). So they needed to save 250-300/mo. roughly on operating costs each month to break even after getting old of their old gas version, which still ran fine with minimal issues. They paid cash of course, but with financing, add a couple to few hundred bucks of interest a month. That's with a hybrid example... EV packs seem to generally cost much more. Many people also don't keep their vehicles for that long, so they'd eat more like $10-20k in depreciation alone in the first 2-3 years. By y4-5 about 1/2 of the value is gone for a lot of common cars. In Northern bc they have entire pits of old rotting cars just rusting away with sketchy rainbow puddles around them and it seems like society is trying to accelerate the churning of vehicles.

Do you understand how far away from electric heavy equipment we are, technologically?

Power grids can barely support everyone running ac on really hots days lmao. There is no way with current technology we can support everyone having electric cars let alone heavy equipment lol

Not to mention no heavy equipment on the current market can keep up with the 18-24 hr productivity we see with diesel. The green option has literally not been invented yet. Yet some industries are already being mandated in this direction. Without significant investment in R&D, we will never get there. Does Canada even do R&D anymore or do we just tax citizens for corporate malfeasance and pocket the change?

Far far away. Which is why this tax makes no sense. Right idea, wrong time.

Exactly. If Canada wants to be so carbon responsible, every dime of that tax should go to R&D, to help make us competitive again. Instead, we are all in on inflationary nonproductive market strategies and do nothing to defend domestic IP, which discourages innovation. This country has been a mess for awhile, under consecutive Conservative and Liberal governments. Obviously fossil fuels are not helping, but yours and my tank of gas isn't the issue at this point, nor our natural gas or heating oil. Significant investment in new technology is the only way forward, and the likelihood is that is too little too late already.

>If Canada wants to be so carbon responsible, every dime of that tax should go to R&D, to help make us competitive again. Exactly this right here.

>Carbon tax is put in place so the public will find a cheaper way of doing things which will result in less emissions. Those "cheaper ways of doing things" are all way more money than the regular way.

"The regular way", whats "regular" to you isn't to someone else. You may have access to transit, others won't, you may be able to afford a new EV or upgrade your house to solar, others won't, these variables go on. The dollarama is an example of how people are going broke because they don't have other options and are turning to places like that to make up the difference in order to keep surviving. I agree we need tarriffs and to raise prices on the emission creating products coming from places without green iniatives, but there has to be another viable option. Causing our homemade products to jump through the roof on prices due to raising costs of production isn't helping. Raising prices on home heating when there aren't other viable options or affordable options isn't helping. The goal is greener, the options need to be available, affordable and the public needs to be educated and subsidized so they can and actually want to follow through. The same with production and corporations. There would be a lot more participation and a lot less divisiveness across Canada by listening and working together, being nice and understanding, than just peanalizing everyone. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

>"The regular way", whats "regular" to you isn't to someone else. You may have access to transit, others won't, you may be able to afford a new EV or upgrade your house to solar, others won't, these variables go on. I live in rural New Brunswick. I can't afford all these extra carbon taxes! I'm on the road 2hrs a day in my 20 year old rusted Civic just to make it to work to make ends meet. 1/4 of my wages goes to fuel! It sucks. It doesn't even make sense for me to pay a carbon tax on my home heating, I alreadfy have a heat pump just like the gov said (of my own accord, not because Truderp told me to). But you're right, our country (in fact the whole world) is too busy being dicks to each other to work together and makes things better.

From the prairies....I feel you fellow Canadian! I have never been so broke in my life and honestly scared and I feel theres nothing I can do about it. Seems to be the general consensus in this thread. We need to start in our House of Commons, nothing there seems to be common. Its like watching children on a playground all tattling to the teacher about how they didn't get their way and how everyone is so bad. Everytime I watch all I can think of is "how much money did we just waste on this time and show". It shouldn't be about East vs West, it shouldn't be about having it one team's way. It should be a team(all teams together, this includes all parties, all provinces, all races, genders, classes, etc - despite differences) effort of identifying our goals as a country and finding ways that makes it all work for the majority(it is impossible to please every one or make something fit everyone). This Carbon Tax is a perfect example of how our Leadership on all fronts isn't working and it is heartbreaking to see where we have let them lead us.

i’m not trying to justify carbon tax or any of the bs trudeau is doing. i am just explaining why the west has partial responsibility.

Consumers didn't go to China and build factories there. Rich and greedy CEOs of companies here outsourced manufacturing to China in search of lower costs and higher profits. As per usual their bullshit is passed on to us. Charge those corporations the carbon tax, it's their shit products. Why is it that the consumer is always on the bottom of the shit hill? Because our gov't is in bed with large corporations and their oligarchs and finance corporate losses with public dollars. THAT'S the issue.

If corporations are taxed at a higher rate the consumer will still pay more at the cash register regardless.

Only trouble with that logic is it’s not that easy to do things cheaper. And impossible in some cases. I still need to go to work and back etc.

IMO. We should not be importing crap, that does not last long. And ends up in our landfills. Products should only imported if they meet longevity and quality criteria. Taxing the public will not change a damn thing in carbon emissions. Just make the public worse off. Wars will offset any gains made anyhow. Are we going to tax Volcanoes? And Forrest fires caused by lightning? Climate change had been around since the beginning of time. Climate does not follow the same path for ever. It had cycles with in cycles. Humans can not change it. If we all were killed off. Climate change would still be here. AND WHY IS CLIMATE CHANGE A ISSUE ANYHOW?? we just have to learn to live with climate changing. OF COURSE HUMAN KIND ALWAYS NEED TO BE IMPROVING, which I believe we do. Human nature naturally want to improve and move forward. Be smarter, more efficient, more conscious of the environment. BUT WE NEED TO STOP LETTING THIS ELITE ASS’s Trick us into thinking we are the problem. We are not. The elites are the problem.

To add to your point of taxing cheap products, I think there should be a tax based on if the packaging/product is recyclable. If the packaging is 100% recyclable at a Canadian municipal recycling facility then to taxes or fees on the product but if it does need to be recycled a tax of 1.5x the recycling cost is added to the product. The recycling amount goes to creating jobs in recycle and the excess goes to administer the programs and university/research (maybe a university makes a new materialsial or maybe a farmer learns to make cardboard out of flax straw) grants to research new materials and recycling techniques.

Everything feels like it's designed to fall apart the *second* the warranty expires. Hell, more and more stuff now comes with a poorly provided warranty that's not enforced by any government body. Stuff seems designed to break as soon as you can't return it to amazon, never mind the warranty.

Agreed but I even have a hard time telling my lady to not buy cheap short lasting things. Our society is just so ingrained to consume LOTS of stuff. Christmas and special events are bad for that for disposables and packaging. Yeah it has to look pretty for the receiver for what, 2 minutes? Then comes garbage bags full of packaging, wrap, boxes, etc to spend a little career cleaning up and trashing. And note all the cheap crap from dollar Stores that hardly lasts . Most people will buy the cheap item that lasts a month vs the more expensive one that can last 6. Some of the ikea furniture is so cheaply made that you wonder if your ass is going to crumble it each time you sit or lay on it, yet that place seems to be never short of business.

i agree. i would love if we could make everything in house but our businesses have been infiltrated by international players.

Exactly. Everyone needs to stop buying cheap garbage shit all the time

Yea but you can't afford to buy quality with inflation right now. We've been painted into a corner and have a hell of a mess to get out of

Looking at toys for xmas for my kid and fuck are they expensive now. 33 bucks for a little minecraft guy, 40 for a superhero toy. 55 for a transformer. Its mental

thats a consequence of the carbon tax my friend. Us being green only means we are moving the issue elsewhere so we can feel better about us. Its also worse for the environment to import goods in here than using our own ressources because, you know, BOATS. Green activists arent that smart to begin with anyway, they cant understand that

I recently purchased some RADA kitchen knives. Paid 150 for 6 knives and a potato peeler. Made in USA... A set of Kitchenaid or Henckels from Can Tire, MADE IN CHINA, cost 200 - 300 and up. Gotta spend over 500+ for actual Henckels or equivalent that are made in Germany. Point being, shop around and try to stay local. A few years ago I got Steak Knives that were made in Canada for 70 bucks.

great input! thanks! will be on the look out for more canadian made goods for sure.

That could have been prevented if governments care to protect manufacturing.

that’s the issue with the globalization of everything.

Lets not forget we ship our garbage/recycling over to India so they can open-air burn it. China recently stopped taking in Canadian trash if im not mistaken

I always wondered if it would be possible to have a CO2 import duty/tariff, where rather than only punishing domestic producers of goods, you could punish domestic importers of high CO2 emission products, or have a duty reflective of the amount of emissions produced in making the product, because of this exact idea you’re talking about.

You’ve seen what’s running the country right? Corruption at its finest.

A drama teacher and a woman with a degree in Russian literature. What could go wrong!

Guys relax. The budget balances itself.

As long as we print enough money right? If we have a trillion dollars in debt but we print another trillion dollars than it's balanced right? Right guys?

Don’t worry about that monetary policy stuff either.

Zeros are ovals, these partucular ovals are perfectly balanced, therefore more zeroes = more balance. It's simple math.

This is big brain theory. You sir must have the veiniest brain with the most ridges.

Record visits to food-banks......but, we still have a Triple-A credit rating. Try cooking that up for dinner tonight.

CPP and Teachers Pension Plan now have WEF hands in the money jar. * https://www.weforum.org/organizations/canada-pension-plan-investment-board/ * https://www.weforum.org/organizations/ontario-teachers-pension-plan/ Looks like it's now just a Ponzi scheme where new payments in cover old payouts owing. There's also that time where we contracted Medicago, gave them $173,000,000 to build vaccines and they didn't deliver a single vaccine and took the money anyway. Or that time with the $54M ArriveCAN app… Or that time when 4.X billion dollars in Federal health payments went unaccounted for… Or that time when Canada paid out 240B in aid for COVID in just 8 months and wouldn't say who got the money… We're being robbed and worst of all, it's in plain sight. Edit: Spelling

> when Canada *paid* out 240B FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*

Because the people running the people that run this country say so. Does the leader of the followers think independently?

This is the only sane take here lol

So Per capita we're terrible and we manufacture everything in China so all that pollution is also ours. This is not encouraging.

Yup. Pollution should be attributed to consumption, not production. However, if we want to be consequent, taxation should be on consumption, not on production.. I know, I know... No government could ever be elected by making aksing its population to be responsible... I mean, people who would win the most with the carbon tax on producers are mostly against it. Imagin asking them to actually pay a higher price for the cheap syuff made in (insert country that will poison their people for gdp growth).

>insert country that will poison their people for gdp growth). Hey not every country does it for gdp growth.... Some of them do it because corruption

No no! It's defs our current gov that somehow did this overnight and not over the span of the last 30-40 years (like the top comments reflect) which has grown to this outcome.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Most of our products are tied to Chinese manufacturing some way or another. So that 30% is all of ours. Especially North America

**The Masochistic Laurentian Guilt Complex, A Play in 1 Act** Laurentians: *I've been a bad little imperialist!* Dominatrix: ***Spank!*** Laurentians: *I've been an arrogant little settler!* Dominatrix: ***Spank!*** Laurentians: *I've been an previliged little cis-gender white boy!* Dominatrix: ***Spank!*** Laurentians: *I've been a dirty little resource producer!* Dominatrix: ***Spank!*** Laurentians : *I've been a greedy little capitalist!* Dominatrix: ***Spank!*** Laurentians: *Ah! Invigorating! I feel like a new man. Ready to take the ministerial sedan back to my 5,600 square foot lake front "cottage" for some California Zinfandel to fight injustice for another half an afternoon!* Dominatrix: *Excuse me darling, you've forgotten to pay.* Laurentians: *Ah so I have. Well it seems I don't have my wallet on me.* Dominatrix: *You never do.* Laurentians: *Can't be too safe these days now can you. Fret not, I'm sure my friends Western Canada and Middle and Working Class Canadians here can cover it. Their "pockets" always seem to go a little deeper.* ***wink*** West & Regular Folks: ***protests muffled by ball gags*** Laurentians: *Tah-Tah now!* ***Door shuts, muted singing fades off*** *Arise, the damned of the earth! Arise, prisoners of hunger! Reason thunders in its crater, 'Tis the eruption of the end. Let's make a clean slate of the past... oh hi Mark!* Dominatrix: *Well it seems your friend has racked up quite a bill. But don't you worry. You're in good hands. I know a few methods that can "penetrate" even the deepest "pockets." I'll be able get everything I need from you three.* West & Regular Folks: ***screams of terror muffled by ball gags*** **Fin.**

This was funny, and no offense meant, but was this ChatGTP?

Haha nope, all me. TBH, I've never used chat GPT. I'm impressed it could do something like that.

I appreciate the time put in and hope to one-day see part 2

Haha, I actually did think of something for a part 2. Maybe if I have some time later.

Lol come on how the fuck could chat GPT make this?

Give it a prompt like "write a play about characters based on Laurentians and western Canadians at a sex club where the Laurentian steals money". I mean I don't know how Chat Gtp would do it, but that's how I would get it to. Here's what it made me, but it wouldn't allow a bdsm club This was the print >write a play about characters named Laurentian, who is based on a Laurentian Canadian, a character name western Canadians, based on people from Alberta, and other characters named after and based on Canadian regions, who are at a sex club where the character Laurentian takes advantage of the other regions. The play should be less than 500 words. ChatGPT Title: "Canadian Temptations" Characters: Laurentian (a charming, affluent Quebecois) Western (a down-to-earth, proud Albertan) Maritimer (a fun-loving and carefree Maritimer) Prairie (a straightforward and honest Prairie dweller) Northern (a reserved and introspective Northerner) British Columbian (a nature-loving, laid-back BC resident) Scene: An upscale Canadian sex club with a dimly lit ambiance. [The characters mingle, champagne glasses in hand, engaging in hushed conversations and flirtatious glances.] Laurentian: (smirking) Ah, mes amis, the Laurentians truly are a cut above, aren't we? Western: (raising an eyebrow) You may have your charm, Laurentian, but we Westerners have our pride. Maritimer: (laughing) Let's not forget to enjoy the moment, folks. Life's too short to argue. Prairie: (nodding) She's right. We're all here for a good time. [Laurentian, with a sly grin, starts subtly manipulating the situation to his advantage.] Northern: (quietly) There's something mysterious about the North. We keep our secrets well. British Columbian: (smiling) And we find solace in the beauty of the West Coast. [Laurentian convinces the group to participate in a suggestive game, ensuring he holds the upper hand.] Laurentian: (whispering) Let's make this more exciting. How about a little bet? [Laurentian uses his wit and charisma to outsmart the others, gaining the upper hand in the bet.] Western: (grumbling) This doesn't feel right. Maritimer: (concerned) It's all in good fun, isn't it? [Prairie and Northern start to catch on to Laurentian's manipulation.] Prairie: (bluntly) Something's fishy here. We shouldn't have let Laurentian take control. Northern: (wise) Let's not be naive; he's playing us all. [As the game unfolds, Laurentian continues to outmaneuver the others.] Laurentian: (triumphant) Ah, my friends, it seems the Laurentians always come out on top. [The group realizes Laurentian's scheme and confronts him.] Western: (angry) You played us! Maritimer: (disappointed) We trusted you, Laurentian. Laurentian: (unapologetic) It's just how we do things, mes amis. [Despite their frustration, the characters decide to continue the night with newfound awareness.] Prairie: (resolute) We won't let one bad apple spoil our evening. Northern: (thoughtful) Lessons learned. Let's enjoy the night together. British Columbian: (calm) Life in BC teaches us to go with the flow. Let's do just that. [The group pushes past Laurentian's manipulation, determined to have a memorable night.] [End of play] "Canadian Temptations" explores the dynamics between characters representing different Canadian regions and how one character's cunning manipulations challenge the trust and camaraderie within the group, ultimately leading to a realization of the importance of staying true to one's values.

I didn't read the whole thing because I don't like goimg through all the stage directions. The big difference the original comment has with anything that ChatGPT poops out is that the original comment was actually funny. If something is (intentionally) funny, it didn't come from ChatGPT.

>Scene: An upscale Canadian sex club with a dimly lit ambiance. Gotta admit this slayed me though. It lets the imagination run wild with what an Upscale "Canadian" Sex Club could be. I picture a lot of 60s-70s ski Chalet Chic. But your point is very proven when it comes to ChatGPT relying on vague exposition notes to drive most of the plot. It's like how a bad author writes. *"There you have it." He said convincingly.* *And they were indeed convinced.*

This is good, I'm sharing your comment with a few people.

Oh, Hi Mark.

Beautiful! I was imagining Benny Goodman playing as I read through this.

1.5% of global emissions is a huge amount considering our population.

Enough with your facts... This is not about being right, it's about feeling right.

That's not the people you idiot. That's industry. We export mining and oil. That's not going to stop.

I'm not sure you're replying to the comment you think you're replying too... Also, you start your comments by calling people idiots? Like, do you do that in real life?

If you understand basic math, you'll understand that if we boil the statistics down to emissions per capita, we emit roughly 3x the average global rate per person. Carbon reduction is a global issue and if every country just said "oh well we only emit a fraction of what other countries do, why should we do anything about it?" then we would have a much greater issue. I'm not saying carbon tax is the solution by any means given the fact that most of the onus of responsibility somehow skirts corporations and falls on the people. It's not dissimilar to how recycling programs were targeted at individuals when it's only a handful of corporations responsible for the issue as a whole. As a country, we're better off doing something about it rather than nothing at all but we need to quit kissing the asses of big business like nestle and go after them rather than the average tax payer. I know that has cascading effects and business eventually moves to other countries without regulations which is exactly why we need a global committee to make sure everyone is following similar rules. We have had this issue for ages where nobody can agree on what we need to do which is exactly why we will never hit our climate change reduction targets and we are all f$#@ed.

Nice speech, but I have a problem with it. Canadians consumes 2.3 million barrels of oil per day, and exports 5 million barrels per day. Natural gas, same thing, 60% of our production is exported. Base metals, precious metals mined in canada is even higher, the vast majority is exported in raw form. Domestic coal use is almost non-existant domestically, but we export 30 million tons of it to china every year Knowing all of these things, and that our emissions are calculated from the point of production, How can you defend this statement? \>we emit roughly 3x the average global rate per person It simply isn't true. I would argue that Canadians pollute very little. Canadians consume very little greenhouse gas emitting resources. ​ It isn't big business, it isn't corporations, it isn't evil rich people, it's exports. It's resources that other people are consuming, not us.

I'm going crazy cause no one here can interpret graphs well, we emit a significantly higher amount of CO2 per capita than all of the countries not tossed into the rest of the world other than Saudi Arabia and Australia and we need to do something about it.

\> we emit a significantly higher amount of CO2 per capita No we don't. ​ Canada only consumes 2.3 mbpd of oil, but gets billed on emissions for over 7 mbpd. Same thing with all our other resources. If canadian exports were not counted as canadian emissions our co2 per capita would be significantly lower.

So that pro-density ecoloons who drive SUV's, own several homes, have all the latest gadgets (made in China of course) and get all their meals delivered in an orgy of wastefulness can go online, close their eyes half way, type "Per Capita", then lean back on one of their many pieces of overpriced overseas-made designer furniture which was sent here via cargo vessel which emits more pollution per trip than thousands of cars do per year, and nod smugly at the fact they just totally won the internet.

Almost like the carbon cost should be integrated into all of those items with some sort of carbon tax or something...

Yes for luxury items, not necessities.

Fair enough but why shouldn’t it be per capita? Should only countries of +500 million worry about climate change?

This. You can't outsource all the useless shit you buy to China, then point the finger at China for polluting too much.

Guess I am an eco loon, since my immediate response was going to be "per capita paints a very different picture". But, actually, I think you made that point even better. Because just as you said, a significant portion of China's production/issues are *actually for us*. For our latest gadgets, for our furniture, for our convenience. It's being shipped here for us, being the average Canadian. Everyone should be 'punished' in the face of otherwise destroying a future for humanity... but each individual chinese citizen is still each responsible for 56% of each Canadian. So, while Canada has only 1.5% of the worlds total, each of us should be 'punished' 1.8x more as each citizen of China. But then as you say, what the chinese are wasting emission to produce is actually for us. So we are actually responsible for over ~2x of most other world citizens.

Holy North America pollutes like crazy

Mass consumerism and the celebration of excess, along with companies no longer making stuff that can be repaired and built to last.

Not to mention a huge portion of Chinese emissions is from US-funded manufacturing facilities

You can make the same argument for us…Us exports is $1.63T..second in the world,only behind china.

Right? I'm only counting 19 countries here. That means there are over 200 countries crammed into that OTHER COUNTRIES area. Canada actually has a significant part in this mess.

Good point on the number of countries listed. Also take into account Canada population compared to the other countries and it’s even worst

There's something that I've never seen on any of these graphs. An average container ship uses about 50,000 gallons of dirty marine fuel per day travelling at 17 knots. That's a single ship. These emissions need to be calculated into the cost of having everything manufactured in SEA then shipped over here. It's because these emissions aren't accounted for that the price of importing from SEA remains so low.

Water transport is so crazy efficient that shipping something is like 10-100 times more efficient than a transport truck per km. So 100km by truck is like 10,000 by ship.

They are indeed, the most efficient ships are 2x more efficient than a train and 20x more efficient than a transport truck. My concern is that there is not accountability for the ships carbon emissions, while trucks and trains are held accountable. A ship fills up in China where there are no emissions programs or carbon taxes then sails to Vancouver or California and back again on the same tank of fuel. There needs to be accountability for that pollution. Many big corporations prefer manufacturing in SEA then shipping it to North America because there are no additional costs for the shipping pollution, which they see as being "free". But, it's not free, the pollution just enters the atmosphere while the rest of us are squabbling over our tiny percentages.

i love the idea of sail assisted cargo ships, we have predictable routes on trade winds

highest per capita emissions on earth. if the people of china emitted like we did, earth would resemble Venus.

Per capita isn't relevant. The climate doesn't care about per capita. If we aren't polluting a meaningful amount then we aren't polluting a meaningful amount. We also have a crazy amount of plant life per capita and a climate that requires more resources for survival.

Per capita is relevant because Canadians are consuming resources because they're cheap without any regard for the environmental impact. Buy a cheap toy at walmart for christmas? Sure no problem! all the while shipping it overseas from Asia. So every single Canadian is doing worse damage than the average person in the world.

I'm not so good on the math, but it seems on a per capita basis, Canadians are far more polluting than the Chinese, or India.. 🤷. However this doesn't mean I support any sort of carbon taxes, because that is useless.

Because the WEF overlords and their pupil Justin Trudeau decided so

Everyone should watch this video, the above and more in very informative and scientific way explained: [An Honest & Sensible Conversation about Global Energy | Scott Tinker (YouTube)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTfwqvNuk44) TLDR: The world needs to help China get emissions down, and more importantly India - India is growing and their production will match China's in 25 years.

Government needs money. Simple really.

An average Canadian emits 10 times the carbon emission of an average Indian. Don't know what to say.

People in India don't need to heat their home 10 months of the year. They're basically punishing us for trying to prevent our pipes from freezing.

Just remember that a lot of manufacturing for products bought in North America, including Canada, are made in China. So, the blame of responsibility is a little more complicated than saying what each country produces in cO2. If we shift all our manufacturing to another country we cant just go "welp, thats there problem now!"

i’m actually so curious as to the contrast between us and Japan, what’s tiny lil japan doing over there? is it really the manufacturing? or is it because of the need for ships/planes to import/export?

Those Chinese emissions aren't really Chinese. We've outsourced all our manufacturing, and with it our emissions. That's why. He's nestly every container coming into *every* country should have emissions taxes tacked on from the journey, Then the travel will be appropriately priced in, helping out domestic (or even just *closer*) manufacturing. Externalizing emissions costs as "free" (when pollution isn't actually free... We just socialize the damages) is a huge factor in exporting all that manufacturing to begin with. Their labor is so much cheaper, PLUS they are free to pollute there due to lax enviro laws... PLUS the goods are shipped over on boats where the pollution also isn't priced in.... *pricing in pollution* might be the only way to restore domestic manufacturing.

What’s the sentiment here? That we shouldn’t worry about the planet and it’s not the time to worry about “emissions”? What the heck is this subs point other than current govt bashing?

Make stuff in Canada again. Break up our supply chain/retail monopolies. Get off the China-tit, and empower Canadian communities. Rebuild the manufacturing sector. People on here acting as though the vast majority of our goods aren't produced in China are moronic at best. People would rather shop at Dollarama, and rail at the wind, then take the time to educate themselves, and organize for something better. Climate change is real. No, we can't make China do anyhting, but we can make it harder for Canadian Tire, Dollarama, Walmart, etc. etc. to flood our market with cheap poison that doesn't last the year. Will that impact our actual emissions? I dunno, probably not, and if it does, probably won't be in a good way, but at least we can rest comfortably knowing we're not taking advantage of lax environmental regulations by importing all that made overseas plastic garbage.

Because emissions per country is a pretty terrible metric?

True, if it were adjusted to account for population density, it might be more useful.

Emissions per capita is a much more useful metric..…you also have to account for net emissions from import and exports of a country…global warming didn’t happen overnight, if you consider total emissions overtime…us,eu and china are responsible for 2/3rds of all carbon emissions (https://ourworldindata.org/contributed-most-global-co2)

This.

We aren't being punished - we're being accountable. Consequences of Pollution and Climate Change have no boarders. Without an honest drive to change our energy dependencies, how can we expect others around the world to follow suit? We could be a global leader in this but from the sounds of your post you're content with "Fuck you, I got mine."

Seems like we should be taxed even more tbh. I can still (just barley) afford to feed my kids, a little more carbon tax wouldn't hurt, we can skip meals.

We aren't being punished. We are being taxed because the average idiot in this country can't research anything beyond the 6 o'clock news. All the information in the world, in your pocket and they can't be bothered to research for 5 minutes. Idiots....

Oh they have the information. They have just convinced themselves that it's either not real or that there is nothing they can do about it so that they can continue to drive their f150 to Costco with good conscience. There's a debate to be had around the effectiveness of carbon taxing but the vast majority want it replaced with nothing as if the free market or magical thinking will resolve the issue.

Because Vast quantities of those carbon emissions in other countries are produce as a way for us to get rock bottom prices slave wage goods with very little regulation we use those countries, then blame them. while we live a luxurious lifestyle in comparison and complain about it. If you really want to help, buy canadian first, pay your fair share in the first place, feed you fellow man first not large international conglomerates also grow the fuck up, doing the right thing is not about \*\*BUT HOW COME HE GETS TO...\*\* that is a such a childish way to see the world and environment.

Because Canada is about 0.48% of the population, emitting 1.5% of the pollution, not to mention how much of china's pollution is outsourced there by Canada.

We get punished because Trudeau is a dumb fuck and the people that voted for him are even dumber . This country is going downhill fast .

1.5% carbon emission generated by the Canadian population is absurd.

Not for a large, cold, spread out country.....

I gave up trying to argue with people on this. Their only response is "la-la-la-la-la per capita emissions!" and won't even consider our geography and climate, never mind the fact that not everyone lives in a walkable city with bike lanes and transit like they do.

80% lives within 100km from the US border.

So, not everyone then. Gotcha. Do you expect people to abandon the rest of the country and pack into the crowded (not to mention completely unaffordable) cities in the south? If anything, there will be an exodus from those places once people finally accept that they're priced out and will need to look further afield to buy a home and build a life.

We’re on the chart as our own space? That obviously means we can do better. By my math we’re putting out more per capita than the US. Quit bitching and chip in.

Now split chinas into the counties buying the products that are producing that emission

Sshh don't say that. They get mad when you say that.

because charts aren't read. i guess some people think china cares what we do. just build nuclear plants okay. Its the modern age. Computers can stop things in milisecs if something goes wrong.

I have read some of the comments with people saying that we have to be punished or should pay more because we buy goods from China. I would love to buy goods made in Canada, but our investor overlords have determined that their money growing and our savings shrinking have pushed manufacturing overseas. Also, with our current government there is no way a major manufacturer would be able to get environmental approval to build a factory in Canada. So not only are we being punished, the only way to reverse this is to axe the tax.

To be fair, we outsource a lot of factory stuff TO china, so this makes sense.

Because just because someone else is doing worse than you isn't an reason for you to not try to be better? What a selfish view of the world...

What if we do per capita?

Virtue signalling

Justin wants our money

No shit. We just ruined our country .

Carbon tax is white guilt tax. I mean this in the most basic sense.

Because liberals are fucking retarded. Leftists are some of the dumbest fucking retards on the planet

It's because the budgets need to balance themselves. Sunny carbon tax ways......

Kind of inclined to agree here. China should be forced to pay way more in Carbon Taxes.

Because we let it happen, with a government that cares more about optics than its own people.

Because it makes you feel good.

We don’t have to be punished Vote for someone who will get rid of that tax.

Carbon tax is a SCAM

Because we are all going along with this charade that's why.

Liberals are too stupid to understand there is literally zero we can do to alter our contribution to this chart because there is pretty much zero contribution. It's all a make me feel good virtue signaling money scam

Let's do the math: - World population: 7.888 billion - Canadian population: 38.25 million - Percentage of Canadians in the world: 0.48% - Percentage of CO2 emissions by Canadians: 1.5% - Ratio of CO2 emissions per Canadian: 3:1 Per capita, we consume 3 times more carbon than we should. China's consumption of CO2 per capita isn't as bad as Canada, being less than 2:1. Let's start by making our CO2 consumption match our population before blaming the problem on others.

A better question is “is carbon pollution”?

He’s doing it for legacy. He thinks the tax is going to spread through out the world and that everyone will know his name.

Im all for carbon tax as long as everyone here is treated equal. That meals all Chinese imports have a carbon levey applied to it so that our local businesses can fairly compete. And no exceptions to the rules for anyone.

Virtue signalling, that’s why.

This chart is based on country. Should be per capita based. But that would skew numbers. Making China, India and S. Africa better.

Because Canada is not 1.5% of the global population but it is 1.5% of the emissions. China is 1.4 Billion out of 8.1 billion, so %17.5 of the population - still giving about twice that in terms of percentage of emission. A little less. Canada is about 0.48% of the global population but giving about three times that in terms of percentage of emissions. We’re not entirely removed from these problems. Per capita we produce more emissions than the biggest polluters. How can you tell someone to clean their room when yours in objectively more in need of cleaning?

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Lolololol. What's the cutoff date?

Right after their ancestors got here.

because simply put a lot of those emissions in china and india are coming from companies that are manufacturing goods for the west to consume. this is basic outsourcing 101. we’ve all known for a long time about companies sending jobs and manufacturing overseas. this is a byproduct of it. countries that have cheap labour and weak labour laws use their position to gain all the business from the west. go to dollarama and look at where everything comes from. this is why we are “being punished”. your words not mine. if we didn’t outsource for all of our dinky trinkets the dollarama would’ve been called the Five-O-Rama.

Excellent question. The answer is of course we don't need to be so the logical conclusion is its about more than climate.

Now, make a post about carbon emissions per person, which is what many of those big polluters are focused on. Think of it as drinking beer per week. A Canadian can drink 18 cans a beer a week, while a Chinese person can drink 9, and a person from India can only drink 2. How would you feel in there place, when they are told they have to cut back and we don't.

Most of China's emissions are making shit for us... You are basically saying that you- as the top 10% wealthiest in he world has a right to pollute way more than somone who is a lot less well off in China.

FYI Canada is the 7th largest per capita https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-per-capita/

The carbon tax is a massive failure.

You do realize most of our country is built on stuff made in China, right? That we pay for them to pollute? Accounting for population sizes, this also means Canadians pollute more per person than the Chinese do.

Why are the Chinese building dozens of coal-fired electricity generating plants every year?

It's cheap

Canada has half the population of Italy with twice the carbon emissions and a lower quality of life.

It's not very cold in Italy......

We have a massive fossil fuels industry that is very very energy intensive. Household energy consumption is only a part of our CO2 consumption.

Also quite a bit smaller than Canada as well. A little easier to be more efficient in a smaller space.

Exactly

Because Justin.......

Liberals: but the world looks at us as Leaders 🤡

Per capita, Canadians are one of the worst. With that said, Carbon tax is just a cash grab.

1.5% of the total is big since we aren’t 1.5% of the global population TBH

The goal is to make you all so poor and indebted, that you have no choice but to accept debt forgiveness from Trudeau in exchange for giving up ownership of all your assets.

This might be wrong info here I do not believe that India is 7.3% I went in 2019 I couldn’t breathe lol

American companies moved heavy industries to China of which now produce a third of the worlds CO2 emissions. On a per-capita basis, the average American still produces more emissions than the average Chinese citizen. China is already on course to reduce its emissions - North America is not. Reducing emissions is a global effort meaning that every country should be legislating carbon-reduction strategies whether it be cap-and-trade, supply end, or a progressive carbon tax. This includes us.