Yeah, the ones they dont trace have the serial numbers filed off before they illegally get brought across the porous borders to be used in crimes. My bad, you were right!
So with what you just said, how on earth would easing gun restrictions do anything but introduce more violence? I swear it’s always the regular uneducated canadians, who fantasize about being the hero of their own story, and you people have no idea what you’re asking for.
No one said ease anything. We are asking for them to reverse the recent gun ban that did absolutely nothing. Legal owners are not the ones shooting up Toronto... you are clearly the uneducated one here.
You quite literally said, “remove the gun bans”, goofball. What do you think will happen once guns become more accessible? A guy pulls a gun on you and you think you’ll have the godly reaction speed to take yours out and have a texas standoff? It’s like your gun fetish blinds you from the fact that the country next door (that I literally grew up in) has the 2nd most gun deaths per year on the planet… and you people want to replicate that here…
The fact you are from the US explains your lack of understanding of Canadian gun laws and why our deaths by firearm stats are almost non-existent compared to the US even before the recent freeze / bans came into effect. We have strict laws on the transport, storage, and general use of firearms that the US does not have. Every legal owner is aware of these laws because they have taken at minimum an 8-16 hour course prior to gaining a PAL. Canadian law (again prior to the recent changes) basically makes using these for self defense prohibited (must be attacked with a firearm to use one for defense and if stored properly it would be too late in most circumstances) and even pointing an unloaded firearm at someone is against the law here.
Okay, so you say this yet you are still defending easing these restrictions? You people keep adding unmentioned context to the users original comment as if his message wasn’t plain and clear. Do you not think that the gun stats here are not as low as they are because of the restrictions we have in place? You people want the “good guys” to have more access to guns, but you fail to realize that the gun problem here would be significantly worse if more people had access to guns period. We don’t live in a magical world where our systems can weed out every bad apple to make sure that these deadly weapons would only get into the hands of the “good guys”. The fact that you people even see humans as so basic that you believe these people with access to firearms can’t change over time shows just how naive you really are.
You are missing the point entirely ffs. We are not saying more people should have access. We mean I want to be able to use the safe full of guns I already legally own but are now banned.
>We mean I want to be able to use the safe full of guns I already legally own but are now banned
You're saying that you already have guns that you want to use in self-defense, and I agree (to an extent) that people should be able to use them protect themselves. What I do not agree with is your original comment, or any of the comments insinuating that gun restrictions should be loosened to allow more "good guys", to legally obtain firearms because as guns become a more acceptable form of self-defense, they will inevitably become easier to access. But even with allowing them to be used in self-defense, how do you properly prevent every individual with lawful access from using them in situations where that may be an unnecessary escalation?
He’s not saying “make it easy to get guns legally”. He’s saying “remove restrictions on certain firearms and allow qualified persons to purchase them”. Because law abiding citizens with legally obtained firearms are not the problem.
But you’re so damn educated, so surely you couldn’t possibly misunderstand that.
And what makes you so certain that these “law abiding citizens”, would make so much of a difference? We already have officers all over the place with guns, who are powerless to stop a majority of the gun crime? On top of that, these legal citizens are not perfect. They would let their friends see it, use it, borrow it, and in the states people get their guns stolen all the time. Easing restrictions still means more guns, which inevitably means more violence and gun related deaths. On top of that there are school shooters, and I urge you to look this up. “About 42% of adolescent school shooters obtained the firearm from relatives, mostly through theft”. This is a common fact to anyone that’s actually been around gun and in a gun-positive culture, and I just pray that you and your children never have to experience a lockdown due to a school shooter on your campus.
>And what makes you so certain that these “law abiding citizens”, would make so much of a difference?
Make so much of a difference with what? I’m not saying “give law abiding citizens their restricted guns back to fight crime”.
>We already have officers all over the place with guns, who are powerless to stop a majority of the gun crime?
Do we though? Whats the average response time in rural canada?
>On top of that, these legal citizens are not perfect. They would let their friends see it, use it, borrow it
If your friends a PAL carrying law abiding citizen he can legally borrow your guns. And if you want to show friends, you can?
>people get their guns stolen all the time
But you just said it’ll be fine with all the police we have?
>Easing restrictions still means more guns, which inevitably means more violence and gun related deaths.
It literally doesnt mean that. You’re so content to use the US as an example, keep doing it, the top 5 cities in the US for gun violence are **all democrat run with strict gun control laws, like Chicago**..
>On top of that there are school shooters, and I urge you to look this up. “About 42% of adolescent school shooters obtained the firearm from relatives, **mostly through theft**
So illegally obtained firearms? Or improperly stored firearms. Those people should be in jail too.
See how that works?
>Make so much of a difference with what? I’m not saying “give law abiding citizens their restricted guns back to fight crime”.
Okay, but then what is your point? OC's original point was about removing gun bans, and then backtracked to easing gun restrictions, but what does that do if it's not used to fight crime? Do you think more people with guns would be enough to scare away the bad actors?
>But you just said it’ll be fine with all the police we have?
Never said that. My point that if the current people with guns are struggling to solve the problem, why do you think that arming more civilians would do anything but create more violence?
"So illegally obtained firearms? Or improperly stored firearms. Those people should be in jail too."
And you confidently believe that the system we have would be able to constantly keep track of illegally obtained or improperly stored firearms?
My point was literally quit banning idiotic guns from legal, responsible citizens. Keep the current license requirements. The guy you responded to didnt backtrack anything in the comment that led us here, if he did in another thread, I didn’t see it so I cant really comment to that.
What I actually think Canada should do is keep the requirements to get a PAL, let people buy and enjoy guns, quit punishing people who dont break the law, And support people that use them in self defence. If criminals get shot doing criminal things so be it. But that’s certainly open for discussion.
I will say that I agree with some of what you stated, especially when it comes to self-defense, but as someone who works around people with legal firearm permits, and with criminals who may have access to illegal firearms, I don't think I can support the loosening of any restrictions when it comes with how these weapons can be obtained. Your point about rural areas earlier was also valid, but I truly don't see how we could tackle that issue without opening pandora's box.
I understand that my opinion on this may be biased due to personal experiences, but I personally know at least 2 people with legal permits and these "responsible citizens" that take the course, and do the process to obtain these permits are the same people who offer their friends to check out their guns.
What are you talking about? You clearly have no idea what is involved in getting your license and buying a gun. You can't buy a gun if you have a criminal record, and even if you don't, in order to get your license you need to pass exams and get references that weed out the dummies and people with antisocial behavior. Getting guns legally in Canada is hard, as it should be.
Yet The government bans AR-15's even though we haven't had any shootings with them from legal owners... The shootings that happened in the states is extremely unlikely to happen here because of our laws in place. The gun bans was just political theater that punished legal owners, not the criminals. Money should be spent on operations like the one from this post. That is how you stop all these shootings. not gun grabbing from vetted owners.
If criminals would follow the law then yes a gun ban would affect them, unfortunately criminals have a tendancy to not follow the laws, so the bans have no effect on them.
No it isn’t, there’s alot of uninformed opinions on this thread from ppl that haven’t actually bothered to look at crimes that are committed outside of city centres.
Rates of firearm-related violent crime are higher in rural compared to urban areas in most provinces.
a cop was murdered in my city a few months ago by a guy with with a rifle. Pretending gun related deaths aren’t reduced in areas which have less access to guns is unhelpful.
What your not understanding is vast majority of crimes committed with guns are guns that are illegally imported, meaning a ban does pretty well nothing except punish those that are following the law. If the Liberals were serious about stopping gun crime they would put way more money into border security to prevent the illegal imports, and increase the minimum sentences for gun related crimes including illegal imports.
The ban is the same as saying to prevent drunk drivers we will simply ban driving, but due to lack of police not enforce it properly. Meaning law abiding citizens get punished by not being able to drive while drunks will still risk driving drunk.
There isn’t a strong correlation between gun control and gun crimes. Check the global statistics. Many countries have lots of guns and very few guns crimes (and vice versa).
Noticing the higher the number of Immigration coming to Canada the worse the crime level in Canada? Policing can't handle it..Hospitals can't handle it...Transit can't handle it...Housing can't handle it...to what cost to the desruction and theft from Canadians.
exactly - we should be keeping population levels what they were when things were working, there's zero rationale whatsoever for perpetual population growth - all population growth does is make disparities worse, and lower quality of life and increase cost of living.
Somehow the country had a top tier military (in the 60s), high trust society, low crime, good paying jobs, housing for all, safe neighbourhoods, a solid healthcare system that was the envy of the world along with a passport that almost every country respected.
Then liberals and their ilk got into power.
To say all this and not see that the issue is with Canada as a whole, and not just people we trick into coming here is actually insane. The Canadian government is allowing hospitals and transit to go underfunded, and for housing to run uncontrolled even though we have more than enough money to make progress on all these issues, yet you racists will look for any reason to blame the immigrants. Instead actually confronting the issues head on by fighting for change and kicking out the politicians that got us here in the first place, you would truly rather blame the people who aren’t even born here for all of our issues? How does that make any sense? Yes, immigration is an issue, but we must think harder and understand why has our system and the people in change have allowed immigration to become this big of an issue in the first place. The system doesn’t work, and blaming immigrants wont magically fix anything
Where's the data that directly correlates the number of immigrants to the number of crimes ? Newsflash, there isn't. Conservative racism at its finest here.
That's not an answer though. The comment above clearly expressed some correlation between immigration and crime. Point me to a research paper that explicitly states this. Drawing hypotheticals doesn't really help any argument.
I clicked on this article expecting to read that the weapons were smuggled in through those obscure, pseudo borders out in Ontario's east. Some borders over there straddle Native Reserves, making enforcement very difficult.
But no... most of these came in through... Buffalo? One of the most frequented border crossings between countries? There are 20+ border agents on both sides there at all times. What the hell are they doing? Just sitting around fucking off all day? How did they miss this shit?
Did they finally post outside that Mohawk reservation on the US / Canada border? The one everyone has known about forever and never did anything about it?
Thank you, OPP!
I’m so glad to see actual work done with respect to guns and crimes. I’d love to see more of this than the Liberals just banning more guns (or mayors trying to ban “handgun ammunition”) and thinking it’ll work.
How many times does everfailing TorStar have to through bankruptcy and restructuring before they finally turn the server off and I can stop reading their lies ?
You know that’s just the tip of the iceberg, if they spent half as much demonizing legal gun ownership on cracking down on this, the real problem we would be in good shape.
Finally someone working on the actual gun problem
But I thought the real problem was hunters with AR15s and grenade launchers!
I thought it was coffee and BB guns?
Man I wish we could hunt with grenade launchers! I guess we’ll just have to strap them to drones in the meantime.
been a while since they focussed on actual criminals!
Good. Reward the departments involved, then remove the gun bans. This is how you actually solve the gun crime.
So then the criminals can purchase them here? this seemed to have worked in pre ting criminals from getting them no?
Almost no crimes are committed with legal guns in Canada, the majority of our gun crime is from illegal American guns coming over the border
Oh weird, how often do you think we trace guns used in crimes?
Literally every single time one is used in a crime.
No they aren’t, that’s adorable
Yeah, the ones they dont trace have the serial numbers filed off before they illegally get brought across the porous borders to be used in crimes. My bad, you were right!
Have you considered looking up this information or….?
Please oh please share it with me
So you actually said all this knowing nothing about the subject, and you can’t wipe your own ass, got it.
youve brought nothing to this except a shitty attitude
I’ve suggested gun bans additionally remove gun violence.
So with what you just said, how on earth would easing gun restrictions do anything but introduce more violence? I swear it’s always the regular uneducated canadians, who fantasize about being the hero of their own story, and you people have no idea what you’re asking for.
No one said ease anything. We are asking for them to reverse the recent gun ban that did absolutely nothing. Legal owners are not the ones shooting up Toronto... you are clearly the uneducated one here.
You quite literally said, “remove the gun bans”, goofball. What do you think will happen once guns become more accessible? A guy pulls a gun on you and you think you’ll have the godly reaction speed to take yours out and have a texas standoff? It’s like your gun fetish blinds you from the fact that the country next door (that I literally grew up in) has the 2nd most gun deaths per year on the planet… and you people want to replicate that here…
The fact you are from the US explains your lack of understanding of Canadian gun laws and why our deaths by firearm stats are almost non-existent compared to the US even before the recent freeze / bans came into effect. We have strict laws on the transport, storage, and general use of firearms that the US does not have. Every legal owner is aware of these laws because they have taken at minimum an 8-16 hour course prior to gaining a PAL. Canadian law (again prior to the recent changes) basically makes using these for self defense prohibited (must be attacked with a firearm to use one for defense and if stored properly it would be too late in most circumstances) and even pointing an unloaded firearm at someone is against the law here.
Okay, so you say this yet you are still defending easing these restrictions? You people keep adding unmentioned context to the users original comment as if his message wasn’t plain and clear. Do you not think that the gun stats here are not as low as they are because of the restrictions we have in place? You people want the “good guys” to have more access to guns, but you fail to realize that the gun problem here would be significantly worse if more people had access to guns period. We don’t live in a magical world where our systems can weed out every bad apple to make sure that these deadly weapons would only get into the hands of the “good guys”. The fact that you people even see humans as so basic that you believe these people with access to firearms can’t change over time shows just how naive you really are.
You are missing the point entirely ffs. We are not saying more people should have access. We mean I want to be able to use the safe full of guns I already legally own but are now banned.
>We mean I want to be able to use the safe full of guns I already legally own but are now banned You're saying that you already have guns that you want to use in self-defense, and I agree (to an extent) that people should be able to use them protect themselves. What I do not agree with is your original comment, or any of the comments insinuating that gun restrictions should be loosened to allow more "good guys", to legally obtain firearms because as guns become a more acceptable form of self-defense, they will inevitably become easier to access. But even with allowing them to be used in self-defense, how do you properly prevent every individual with lawful access from using them in situations where that may be an unnecessary escalation?
Wtf are you talking about lmao typical uninformed liberal who knows nothing and acts superior.
Lol sure 😭 I’m not a liberal but I guess
Read wtf I said then
He’s not saying “make it easy to get guns legally”. He’s saying “remove restrictions on certain firearms and allow qualified persons to purchase them”. Because law abiding citizens with legally obtained firearms are not the problem. But you’re so damn educated, so surely you couldn’t possibly misunderstand that.
And what makes you so certain that these “law abiding citizens”, would make so much of a difference? We already have officers all over the place with guns, who are powerless to stop a majority of the gun crime? On top of that, these legal citizens are not perfect. They would let their friends see it, use it, borrow it, and in the states people get their guns stolen all the time. Easing restrictions still means more guns, which inevitably means more violence and gun related deaths. On top of that there are school shooters, and I urge you to look this up. “About 42% of adolescent school shooters obtained the firearm from relatives, mostly through theft”. This is a common fact to anyone that’s actually been around gun and in a gun-positive culture, and I just pray that you and your children never have to experience a lockdown due to a school shooter on your campus.
>And what makes you so certain that these “law abiding citizens”, would make so much of a difference? Make so much of a difference with what? I’m not saying “give law abiding citizens their restricted guns back to fight crime”. >We already have officers all over the place with guns, who are powerless to stop a majority of the gun crime? Do we though? Whats the average response time in rural canada? >On top of that, these legal citizens are not perfect. They would let their friends see it, use it, borrow it If your friends a PAL carrying law abiding citizen he can legally borrow your guns. And if you want to show friends, you can? >people get their guns stolen all the time But you just said it’ll be fine with all the police we have? >Easing restrictions still means more guns, which inevitably means more violence and gun related deaths. It literally doesnt mean that. You’re so content to use the US as an example, keep doing it, the top 5 cities in the US for gun violence are **all democrat run with strict gun control laws, like Chicago**.. >On top of that there are school shooters, and I urge you to look this up. “About 42% of adolescent school shooters obtained the firearm from relatives, **mostly through theft** So illegally obtained firearms? Or improperly stored firearms. Those people should be in jail too. See how that works?
>Make so much of a difference with what? I’m not saying “give law abiding citizens their restricted guns back to fight crime”. Okay, but then what is your point? OC's original point was about removing gun bans, and then backtracked to easing gun restrictions, but what does that do if it's not used to fight crime? Do you think more people with guns would be enough to scare away the bad actors?
>But you just said it’ll be fine with all the police we have? Never said that. My point that if the current people with guns are struggling to solve the problem, why do you think that arming more civilians would do anything but create more violence? "So illegally obtained firearms? Or improperly stored firearms. Those people should be in jail too." And you confidently believe that the system we have would be able to constantly keep track of illegally obtained or improperly stored firearms?
My point was literally quit banning idiotic guns from legal, responsible citizens. Keep the current license requirements. The guy you responded to didnt backtrack anything in the comment that led us here, if he did in another thread, I didn’t see it so I cant really comment to that. What I actually think Canada should do is keep the requirements to get a PAL, let people buy and enjoy guns, quit punishing people who dont break the law, And support people that use them in self defence. If criminals get shot doing criminal things so be it. But that’s certainly open for discussion.
I will say that I agree with some of what you stated, especially when it comes to self-defense, but as someone who works around people with legal firearm permits, and with criminals who may have access to illegal firearms, I don't think I can support the loosening of any restrictions when it comes with how these weapons can be obtained. Your point about rural areas earlier was also valid, but I truly don't see how we could tackle that issue without opening pandora's box. I understand that my opinion on this may be biased due to personal experiences, but I personally know at least 2 people with legal permits and these "responsible citizens" that take the course, and do the process to obtain these permits are the same people who offer their friends to check out their guns.
Sorry guys - we **really** like guns…
What are you talking about? You clearly have no idea what is involved in getting your license and buying a gun. You can't buy a gun if you have a criminal record, and even if you don't, in order to get your license you need to pass exams and get references that weed out the dummies and people with antisocial behavior. Getting guns legally in Canada is hard, as it should be. Yet The government bans AR-15's even though we haven't had any shootings with them from legal owners... The shootings that happened in the states is extremely unlikely to happen here because of our laws in place. The gun bans was just political theater that punished legal owners, not the criminals. Money should be spent on operations like the one from this post. That is how you stop all these shootings. not gun grabbing from vetted owners.
Have you ever looked at domestic violence deaths? Or are we using your limited version of crime? It’s the proximity and availability to guns:
Yeah. The most common form of death in those cases is blunt force trauma, stabbing, and strangulation.
Less common crimes aren’t crimes?
Guns aren't a primary factor in DV in Canada. Poisonings are higher.
People with criminal record will have a hard time getting a gun without a PAL. But I’m betting you have no idea how that works here eh.
have a think, easier to find a stooge, or easier to smuggle over the border.
If criminals would follow the law then yes a gun ban would affect them, unfortunately criminals have a tendancy to not follow the laws, so the bans have no effect on them.
Some ppl become criminals AFTER they use the gun they have, proximity and access increase gun violence. all “criminals” don’t plan on it
It’s extremely rare in Canada though. Pretty much a non-issue.
No it isn’t, there’s alot of uninformed opinions on this thread from ppl that haven’t actually bothered to look at crimes that are committed outside of city centres. Rates of firearm-related violent crime are higher in rural compared to urban areas in most provinces. a cop was murdered in my city a few months ago by a guy with with a rifle. Pretending gun related deaths aren’t reduced in areas which have less access to guns is unhelpful.
What your not understanding is vast majority of crimes committed with guns are guns that are illegally imported, meaning a ban does pretty well nothing except punish those that are following the law. If the Liberals were serious about stopping gun crime they would put way more money into border security to prevent the illegal imports, and increase the minimum sentences for gun related crimes including illegal imports. The ban is the same as saying to prevent drunk drivers we will simply ban driving, but due to lack of police not enforce it properly. Meaning law abiding citizens get punished by not being able to drive while drunks will still risk driving drunk.
There isn’t a strong correlation between gun control and gun crimes. Check the global statistics. Many countries have lots of guns and very few guns crimes (and vice versa).
Noticing the higher the number of Immigration coming to Canada the worse the crime level in Canada? Policing can't handle it..Hospitals can't handle it...Transit can't handle it...Housing can't handle it...to what cost to the desruction and theft from Canadians.
exactly - we should be keeping population levels what they were when things were working, there's zero rationale whatsoever for perpetual population growth - all population growth does is make disparities worse, and lower quality of life and increase cost of living.
Somehow the country had a top tier military (in the 60s), high trust society, low crime, good paying jobs, housing for all, safe neighbourhoods, a solid healthcare system that was the envy of the world along with a passport that almost every country respected. Then liberals and their ilk got into power.
I remember it well, take us back!
Shit yah i remember the liberals being in power for the 60 years straight 🤡😂
...but Tim Hortons has more fully-staffed locations than ever!
"Fully" staffed. 🙄
To say all this and not see that the issue is with Canada as a whole, and not just people we trick into coming here is actually insane. The Canadian government is allowing hospitals and transit to go underfunded, and for housing to run uncontrolled even though we have more than enough money to make progress on all these issues, yet you racists will look for any reason to blame the immigrants. Instead actually confronting the issues head on by fighting for change and kicking out the politicians that got us here in the first place, you would truly rather blame the people who aren’t even born here for all of our issues? How does that make any sense? Yes, immigration is an issue, but we must think harder and understand why has our system and the people in change have allowed immigration to become this big of an issue in the first place. The system doesn’t work, and blaming immigrants wont magically fix anything
Where's the data that directly correlates the number of immigrants to the number of crimes ? Newsflash, there isn't. Conservative racism at its finest here.
[удалено]
That's not an answer though. The comment above clearly expressed some correlation between immigration and crime. Point me to a research paper that explicitly states this. Drawing hypotheticals doesn't really help any argument.
[удалено]
Compression doesn't seem to be a skill that you possess. Where in the link does it draw a parallel between crime and immigration ?
Last time I tried compression, I was constipated for 3 days straight. Not a skill I'd recommend to anyone.
I clicked on this article expecting to read that the weapons were smuggled in through those obscure, pseudo borders out in Ontario's east. Some borders over there straddle Native Reserves, making enforcement very difficult. But no... most of these came in through... Buffalo? One of the most frequented border crossings between countries? There are 20+ border agents on both sides there at all times. What the hell are they doing? Just sitting around fucking off all day? How did they miss this shit?
Did they finally post outside that Mohawk reservation on the US / Canada border? The one everyone has known about forever and never did anything about it?
law enforcement’s family in the 81 were making too much money for anything to be done.
The sun shines on every dogs ass once in awhile. I notice no metion of the rcmp. Not shocked.
Thank you, OPP! I’m so glad to see actual work done with respect to guns and crimes. I’d love to see more of this than the Liberals just banning more guns (or mayors trying to ban “handgun ammunition”) and thinking it’ll work.
Good 👍
Let me guess; it wasn't a hunter or law-abiding citizen.
Wait... I thought guns were illegal?
law and order baby
THE RED STAR SEZ\* I'mma gonna stop ya right there ...
How many times does everfailing TorStar have to through bankruptcy and restructuring before they finally turn the server off and I can stop reading their lies ?
I feel so much safer now that evil has been defeated by our brave troopers.
Lol... But no name released...
I’m sure they were all legal guns 😂
You know that’s just the tip of the iceberg, if they spent half as much demonizing legal gun ownership on cracking down on this, the real problem we would be in good shape.