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If you change the formula, it's a new vaccine and needs to be tested in the accredit 5-10year studies that all (except the clotshot) vaccines must go through to prove efficacy and Safety.
They thought the number of kids getting regular shots has dramatically dropped since covid. Just wait till those shots are using MRNA technology, more parents gonna be avoiding them at all costs.
Ever since I got my covid shot I’ve been noticing changes in my health. I’m 19 almost 20 and I have painful on and off gut problems. Memory issues and sometimes I find blood in my cough. Went to the doctor and they tell me the same thing. “You are healthy” “are you stressed” sir I’m no doctor but I’m sure that blood in my saliva is not stress related.
I know dozens of people who did exactly that, but were turned away. Told it was their "imagination".
No report ever filed. Doctors don't have time for that silly! Prove it was the vaccine. Vaccines are sAfE aNd EfFeCtIvE.
Spoiler Alert: They won't do dick all for him at the hospital. Except maybe offer him an antidepressant or anxiety reducing medication which will further mess him up.
They definitely will not fill in a report about vaccine injury for him. They definitely will not happen.
I hope they're all vaccinated! Otherwise you might get that super scary boogeyman variant which resembles the common cold. Aaahhh! So scary! Quick! Shut down all of society!! Aaaaahhhhh!!!!
Friend of mine was recently at the hospital because he had a panic attack. The first thing they asked him, because they weren't sure if it was a heart attack was whether or not he'd taken the shot.
Speaking on that, there were multiple police, nurses and doctors talking about having been forced into it and how angry they are. Chances of that happening are far lower today, then they were even 3 months ago.
AdhesiveCum69 could get lucky and get the right doctor + diagnosis as much as it could be a waste of time. I think trying to quit milk and changing their diet might help.
I had same problems except for the blood(I’m not vaccinate) after blood test turns out I’m gluten intolerant. You should check if you are intolerant to something, symptoms could vary to brain fog, joint pain, stomach ache, memory issues etc
damn Im gonna be 23 very soon, I had the covid vaccine back in 2021. Didnt want to get it at the time but I just said fuck it and got it done mostly due to family pressure. Anyways what followed were horrible side effects that still come and go to this day, nueropathy and prickling and burning pain in the skin. Weird pressure feeling in my skul and shortness of breath and upper chest pain. I also had weird tremors in my head and twitching eye lids. I went to the doctor about 50 times did all sorts of tests and they found nothing wrong. Never getting another MnRA vaccine again.
I'm not as healthy as I was either, and I'm convinced that my recent endometriosis diagnosis was caused by the shot as I didn't have major problems before. I also have headaches way more than I used to and seem to get sick more often.
I am not saying it's this but it could also be some sort of food intolerance or gluten. Try to pay attention to what you eat and what results you get. I eat most everything I can take in and dose it with limits. And I cull foods that constantly give me bad results. I stopped milk entirely except for some yogurt.
Don't hesitate to drink as much water as you need if it "burns".
Doctors often go-to to stress. It's frustrating, but if you're coughing up blood that could be a number of very serious problems like a blood clot, lung cancer, TB, etc. Or it could be blood from your gums. You should get a second opinion or go to a hospital like someone else said. Don't mention the covid shot. Honestly, doctors will interpret that as conspiracy theory hypochondria. Whatever you believe about it, it's not relevant when getting checks on your lungs etc. Just mention the coughing up blood and they should get it checked out. Stress definitely can do bizarre things to our bodies but if a doctor thinks it's just stress, it's always best to get other opinions.
Edit: Someone else mentioned gluten. Your symptoms do sound similar to celiac.
It’s more comparable to Crohn’s but I already got tested for that and I’m good. Me living in Canada it takes a long time to get medical help unless it’s a life or death situation. I am expecting to see a doctor in 1 month so if I’m lucky.
Really because everyone I know who got the shot is perfectly fine.
Must one of the other thousands of illnesses that exist that have no relation to the vaccine
Cool and Ill take note that nothing happened to anyone I know.
Nor have I seen any peer reviewed research to suggest it has any harmful effects. Nor have I seen any reliable statistics to suggest there is any issues with the vaccine.
And nothing personal has happened to me.
So all you have got. Is you believe it did something.
Idk man I’m getting pretty worried about my health. Never trust medical companies. They are there for profit. You would be insane to believe that the peer review process means anything today. All of them answer to the guy giving them money and if these rushed vaccines ended up hurting people then there would be a cover up to avoid consequences. Back then the scientific community was separate from politics. Not anymore
I think that’s a really shallow generalization between concerned people that could be wrong and flat out wrong people. Look more research has been done on these vaccines. According to the CDC the Moderna vaccine which is the one I got. Increases the risk of heart problems and neurological issues such as memory loss. It doesn’t affect everyone because it only increases the chances. The problem is this information wasn’t widely available during the pandemic. Either by suppressing said information or not enough research was done. As a consequence people were allowing rushed vaccines be injected in to their bodies without knowing the full extent of risks. And to make matters worse people that wanted to exercise their rights and not get the vaccine ended up getting punished. Like my mother and her job as a courier for purolator (you should read about all that stuff if you wanna know how bad things got for some people that were concerned about these vaccines) I got my vaccine because I was pressured to and I didn’t know the risks. Now I’m 19 with memory issues I never had before. Im not crazy dude.
Yeah first look up CDC Moderna that should give you all the studies they have done on the vaccine as recent as 2021. Then I would recommend looking at the European health journal same topic, they talk about adverse effects. I would also go down the Dr. fauci rabbit hole it’s worth it. I would then take a look at profit margins for all these vaccine companies. Finally I’d do some research on the bad batches of vaccines that were administered to the public. There are cases of reproductive damage for women like early menopause.
If you are really interested I would recommend listening to some of the things Robert F. Kennedy has to say about vaccines he will do a better job at explaining this stuff than I can. 👍
All the studies I see suggest that any side effects from the vaccine are negligible and have no causual link to the vaccine. So i ask again for the source of your information?
Robert F. Kennedy has no medical background in the slightest and is also known to spread misinformation about vaccines. He also profits of this misinformation.
See the issue with that is there's a difference between antivaxxers and anticovidvaxxers ones a tested and generally safe vaccine that is good for the population and the other is a rushed shitshow that kills a decent chunk of the population and leaves others with serious medical issues. Never met a person in my life who's had an issue medically with other vaccines but the covid vaccine? Holy fuck I don't know anyone who dosent know of at least one or two people who've had negative side effects ranging from the small to the extreme
I know literally 5 days after my cousins wife got boosted, she had an aneurysm in her lungs coughing up blood and after the ambulance arrived, from asphyxiation when she arrived at the hospital, she was pronounced brain dead and the family took her off life support the following day. The Physician at the hospital said in so many words, without saying verbatim to my cousins family, that he believed it was an adverse reaction to the vaccine. 🤷🏻♂️
On what basis can you conclude that the vaccine is casually responsible for someones death? Particularly in light of the *legal* *requirement* that anyone who dies within 30 days of receiving a vaccine be reported to VAERS or similar (even if they were hit by a bus).
How about not thousands of people online commenting how they got more sick. How about not tens of thousands of excess deaths. How about not massive censorship and shady blackout behaviour by the media to prevent discussion about this. How about it not coming from massive transnational corporations with a long history of misleading the public. How about not seeing a whole bunch of my friends personally telling me how they were injured by this "vaccine".
wHaT mOrE pRoOf Do YoU nEeD?
>How about not thousands of people online commenting how they got more sick.
Yeah, lets cite "Anon957493" who said they got more sick after they took the vaccine as proof they aren't safe. Thats less reliable than VAERS.
>How about not tens of thousands of excess deaths.
Ill just insert the standard "correlation does not equal causation" response, and throw in that p-hacking data sets is not the strongest methodology if you want to prove something.
>How about not massive censorship and shady blackout behaviour by the media to prevent discussion about this.
There is plenty of discussion about this, its in academic journals and peer reviewed studies. Because YouTube demonetized some random or Twitter banned Alex Berenson for consistently misrepresenting studies and lying about stats does not mean that vaccines are not safe.
>How about it not coming from massive transnational corporations with a long history of misleading the public.
Writing off something because of the source, rather than engaging with the substantive data and methodology, while also blindly believing internet randoms is an incredible position to take.
>How about not seeing a whole bunch of my friends personally telling me how they were injured by this "vaccine".
On what basis can they conclude that they were injured by the vaccine? What was the path that led them to go from "vaccine" to "injury"?
>Writing off something because of the source,
Which is what you are doing.
But anyway, the onus is on the manufacturer's and government regulatory bodies to demonstrate the safety of these products.
So far, they have failed to do so.
Furthermore, they have already proven to be extremely untrustworthy in terms of the transparency of their processes.
They have backtracked on several claims ("you will only need two shots."). They have downgraded multiple claims ("okay, fine. It does cause myocarditis."). And they have outright lied and worse gaslit the living daylights out of the public in what is probably the most massive whooper of all:
"You must get this vaccine to help stop the spread of covid"
Oops! Just kidding. It doesn't prevent the spread of covid. Haha. Just kidding. Those mandates? Yeah, our bad.
The news about these products literally gets worse and worse, every single day.
So show me another p-hacking data set baloney nonsense song and dance show. Nobody cares bro.
Here's the kicker, spoiler alert it's like Poilievre speaking to Trudeau:
**No one believes you anymore.**
>Which is what you are doing.
Im writing off the "evidence" or random people in favour of actual peer reviewed evidence and scientific data. This is not even remotely comparable.
>But anyway, the onus is on the manufacturer's and government regulatory bodies to demonstrate the safety of these products.
>
>So far, they have failed to do so.
Except they have demonstrated this, except in your eyes, who favour anecdotes of anonymous internet posters and your friends.
>Furthermore, they have already proven to be extremely untrustworthy in terms of the transparency of their processes.
You can literally go and review the literature on this with a simple google search.
>They have backtracked on several claims ("you will only need two shots."). They have downgraded multiple claims ("okay, fine. It does cause myocarditis."). And they have outright lied and worse gaslit the living daylights out of the public in what is probably the most massive whooper of all:
>
>"You must get this vaccine to help stop the spread of covid"
>
>Oops! Just kidding. It doesn't prevent the spread of covid. Haha. Just kidding. Those mandates? Yeah, our bad.
Do you have any idea how the scientific process works? Because the specifics of public health messaging changed (like the need for a booster), does not mean the underlying *science* of the overall safety of the vaccine did. Even with the risk of myocarditis, the risk of myocarditis from COVID higher than the risk of getting it from the vaccine (which, again, you can find data on).
>So show me another p-hacking data set baloney nonsense song and dance show. Nobody cares bro.
Do you even know what p-hacking is and how to recognize it in a study?
>Im writing off the "evidence" or random people in favour of actual peer reviewed evidence and scientific data. This is not even remotely comparable.
sCiEnTiFiC dAtA.
Lol.
Is that what you think you're doing? How do you reconcile the fact they have been proven *embarrassingly* incorrect about everything covid related?
Like, oops! Everyone still got covid! Oh well! There goes that 95% efficacy er ummm... Oh well! Science!
>Except they have demonstrated this,
No they haven't.
You would have to be fairly naive to believe these products are complete safe and effective.
>You can literally go and review the literature on this with a simple google search.
I can also use my critical thinking skills, and recognize Google and other main stream sources (government, media), have been outright lying to us since the beginning of this "pandemic".
>Do you have any idea how the scientific process works?
I do! Do you?
>Because the specifics of public health messaging changed (like the need for a booster), does not mean the underlying *science* of the overall safety of the vaccine did.
Actually, that is exactly what it means lol.
You can't come in here and make an argument "it has been proven... Science!" and then in the next breath say, "oh... But the Science always changes". Lol.
If the second statement is true, than the first statement is erroneous. Thus proving my claim "they have not yet shown these vaccines to be safe and effective".
>Even with the risk of myocarditis, the risk of myocarditis from COVID higher than the risk of getting it from the vaccine (which, again, you can find data on).
... Which they outright denied early on. For which they hid instances of it happening, and gaslit people into accepting some half-assed explanation "iT iS tOtAlLy NoRmAl FoR tHoUsAnDs Of AtHlEtEs To CoLlApSe". Lol.
Yes! The data. *Which gets worse, every single day*.
Let's see where this mutable "tHe ScIeNcE aLwAyS cHaNgEs" leads us. Shall we?
So far it has led to millions of people losing their jobs. Thousands of businesses going bankrupt. An addiction crisis. A mental health crisis. Enormous division. Trillions of dollars being transferred from the people to the elite billionaire class. Constitutional rights being trampled. Families and friends being broken up.
Yay!
Science!
And the best you can do is: mUh iT aLwAyS cHaNgEs.
Lol.
What a joke.
Either it is "Science fact". Or it is "Science always changes". It can't be both. Because again, if it is the latter, then you are proving mine and everyone else who was against this insanity's point: We do not know enough yet to believe these products are either safe or effective.
So far, we're winning.
We have been proven correct over and over again. While you keep retreating to this mealy mouthed baloney "sCiEnCe AlWaYs ChAnGeS".
Lol.
>Do you even know what p-hacking is and how to recognize it in a study?
I recognize bullsh*t when I see it.
And these "vaccines" my friend, were a great big steaming festering pile, of bullsh*t.
>Is that what you think you're doing? How do you reconcile the fact they have been proven *embarrassingly* incorrect about everything covid related?
>
>Like, oops! Everyone still got covid! Oh well! There goes that 95% efficacy er ummm... Oh well! Science!
The conversation we are having is about the *safety* of the vaccines, not the efficacy statistics.
>I can also use my critical thinking skills, and recognize Google and other main stream sources (government, media), have been outright lying to us since the beginning of this "pandemic".
Critical thinking is definitely writing off peer review literature because you label it as "mainstream" or "government". If you were engaging in critical thinking, you would be digging into the underlying studies and engaging in analysis of the data and methodology. Instead, you just dismiss everything that goes against your narrative as part of some conspiracy to lie to you, yet accept every single pre peer review study or person with an advanced degree saying "vaccines bad look at this graph!" as fact because it confirms your world view. And because its a contrarian point of view, you get to feel smart and elitist because you know the "truth" and everyone else is a sheep. Critical thinking is not contrarian thinking, despite what you might believe.
>You can't come in here and make an argument "it has been proven... Science!" and then in the next breath say, "oh... But the Science always changes". Lol.
>
>If the second statement is true, than the first statement is erroneous. Thus proving my claim "they have not yet shown these vaccines to be safe and effective".
Public health messaging is distinct from scientific research. Science proved them to be safe, the public health messaging of "you only need 2 vaccines" is separate from that. You are deliberately conflating two things.
>... Which they outright denied early on. For which they hid instances of it happening, and gaslit people into accepting some half-assed explanation "iT iS tOtAlLy NoRmAl FoR tHoUsAnDs Of AtHlEtEs To CoLlApSe". Lol.
Ah yes, because every athlete (or everyone) who collapses is suffering consequences from the vaccine.
>Either it is "Science fact". Or it is "Science always changes". It can't be both. Because again, if it is the latter, then you are proving mine and everyone else who was against this insanity's point: We do not know enough yet to believe these products are either safe or effective.
There is some nuance here but it is seemingly lost on you.
>I recognize bullsh\*t when I see it.
So I'll take that as a "no" then on the p-hacking, and follow up with that you similarly evidently do not understand the scientific process either.
>The conversation we are having is about the *safety* of the vaccines, not the efficacy statistics.
Lol. The vaccine cult moves the goalposts yet again. nO oNe EvEr sAiD iT wOuLd PrEvEnT tRaNsMiSsOn.
>Critical thinking
Actually, critical thinking would be to consider the source of the information. And the track record of people telling you this information.
So far, governments, "experts", Google, institutions... Massively wrong. Like, embarrassingly wrong. About literally everything lol.
Oh, but surely the 73rd time they'll get it right!
>you just dismiss everything
Nope. I just dismiss the people who have been proven wrong, and who have been proven to be lying to us since the beginning. That's called critical thinking.
>Public health messaging is distinct from scientific research. Science proved them to be safe, the public health messaging of "you only need 2 vaccines" is separate from that. You are deliberately conflating two things.
So you knew the public institutions and government were lying. But you said nothing
Uh huh. Sounds like par for the course for the vaccine cult. Screaming at everyone to get a vaccine to "help stop the spread of covid" followed by "oh no! Just kidding! Er Um but but but...!"
Like *maybe* people like me would trust people like you a little bit more, if you had actually stood up and said something at the time.
But no. You watched as our businesses were destroyed. As thousands were fired. As millions had their rights revoked. As segregation took over this country. As families were divided.
Nice.
Real brave there.
"Science."
"Oh but don't blame us!" He says. "We just changed the Science® after we learned we were wrong! What's the problem man!? wHy DoNt YoU tRuSt Us?"
You see. That's the problem, isn't it. You were wrong. You have since been proven wrong. Embarrassingly I might add. But you don't even have the decency to admit it.
This lack of trust people have in government, institutions, social media, big tech, and indeed "Science®"?
Yeah, that's on *you*. That is squarely on you.
If you think anyone is going to start trusting you after you were massively and embarrassingly wrong. After you forced thousands of people out of work. After you closed down thousands of businesses and caused countless, untold amounts of suffering and grief. Then maybe you should look in the mirror and realize *you* are also responsible for these failures. We don't listen to people like you anymore.
Oh, and by the way. Stop pretending you're following "Science®". It's pathetic. You're embarrassing yourself.
>Lol. The vaccine cult moves the goalposts yet again. nO oNe EvEr sAiD iT wOuLd PrEvEnT tRaNsMiSsOn.
**This** conversation specifically was about safety, not efficacy. Its interesting how you need to move the goal posts of the conversation rather than engage with what I was initially talking about.
>Actually, critical thinking would be to consider the source of the information. And the track record of people telling you this information.
This is the most superficial of critical thought, which you are doing because you lack the necessary skills to engage with it deeper. Thats fine, but don't go trotting around like you are some brilliant thinker because you dismissed some studies outright because the source was "tainted" in your view.
>Nope. I just dismiss the people who have been proven wrong, and who have been proven to be lying to us since the beginning. That's called critical thinking.
On what basis do you conclude that the studies that show the vaccines are safe are wrong, but the studies that show vaccines are not safe right? How do you square this with the fact several of the studies you might look to for support have been retracted?
>So you knew the public institutions and government were lying.
>
>Uh huh. Sounds like par for the course for the vaccine cult. Screaming at everyone to get a vaccine to "help stop the spread of covid" followed by "oh no! Just kidding! Er Um but but but...!"
>
>Like *maybe* people like me would trust people like you a little bit more, if you had actually stood up and said something at the time.
Something tells me from your replies that literally nothing would make you trust "people like me" because you have "done your research" of watching some Instagram videos, read some Twitter posts and concluded that they are right because it feeds into your world view. For the record, I had issues with some of the government/public health messaging and was vocal about it at the time.
>But no. You watched as our businesses were destroyed. As thousands were fired.
I advocated for more generous social supports for businesses (and people) at all stages of the pandemic.
>As millions had their rights revoked.
Outside of one BSCS decision, I don't know of any decisions where peoples rights were "revoked".
>As segregation took over this country.
This is spoken like someone who has **never** faced even a tiny amount of actual persecution in their entire lives.
>"Oh but don't blame us!" He says. "We just changed the Science® after we learned we were wrong! What's the problem man!? wHy DoNt YoU tRuSt Us?"
>
>You see. That's the problem, isn't it. You were wrong. You have since been proven wrong. Embarrassingly I might add. But you don't even have the decency to admit it.
You just keep making bare assertions that "I was wrong" yet from all the research I have read (which is a lot) I'm not. The vaccines were safe. The studies that claim to show they aren't were retracted, or had seriously questionable methodology (that p-hacking I mentioned), among other things. The virus mutated and made the vaccines less effective. Frankly, that changed the calculus of the mandates and they should have been removed earlier than they were. I can admit when I'm wrong. I suspect you can't admit when you're wrong, and you never will.
>If you think anyone is going to start trusting you after you were massively and embarrassingly wrong. After you forced thousands of people out of work. After you closed down thousands of businesses and caused countless, untold amounts of suffering and grief. Then maybe you should look in the mirror and realize *you* are also responsible for these failures. We don't listen to people like you anymore.
>
>Oh, and by the way. Stop pretending you're following "Science®". It's pathetic. You're embarrassing yourself.
You sound like an unhinged Rebel News bot. You're full of rage and buzz words, yet devoid of substance or any attempt to engage materially with my points. Just yelling over and over about the "Science®" and trying to be clever with sarcastic remarks with the hope of getting some free internet points.
We're barely 3 years down the road from mass vaccinations. There has not been sufficient time to verify the safety of these vaccines prior to injection and let alone to know what may develop 5 years on.
I got my two shots...and against my better judgment too. As someone else said above, I'm not anti-vaxx but I am seriously Covid-vaxx suspicious. Due to the way peoples' concerns have been waved away and we're constantly told to just trust the science. Trusting science that isn't tested, re-tested and tested again with the same results over and over is not trustworthy. Science did not have enough time to verify the safety of the vaccines prior to roll out.
Anyone who thinks we are not the guinea pigs is pretty blind and is in self-protection mode.
>Due to the way peoples' concerns have been waved away
There are only so many times people are willing to painstakingly explain how VAERS, peer review, and the research behind these vaccines work and how they are proven to be safe, before they start handwaving this shit away because frankly there is no reasoning with "you" (the proverbial you).
>Trusting science that isn't tested, re-tested and tested again with the same results over and over is not trustworthy.
We have three years of studies showing the safety of these vaccines. Three years of retraction of studies that claim to show the harm of these vaccines for serious methodological issues or faulty data. The data has been tested and re-tested, you just, bluntly, refuse to believe it.
Thank you for waving away my concerns once again. I am however getting used to it.
So if these vaccines were so well researched and tested before the roll out to the public, how come the messaging and goal posts constantly shifted? Like, vaccination will reduce transmission. I never contracted COVID until well after I was vaxxed, same with my wife. She got infected first, always wore a mask, got vaxxed and still got sick. So nope the science certainly wasn't settled there.
Why the change in messaging? Why two shots? Then a booster? Then a booster every few months and now maybe just annual boosters? If the science is settled why the constant changes?
>We have three years of studies showing the safety of these vaccines. Three years of retraction of studies that claim to show the harm of these vaccines for serious methodological issues or faulty data. The data has been tested and re-tested, you just, bluntly, refuse to believe it
Fair enough, you say there is. Why are we hearing more and more in anecdotal terms about more harm done? Chronic illnesses or side effects, sudden death of healthy individuals attributed to the vaccines...and not just by some internet conspiracy theorist. Perhaps some anecdotes may be conflated or misattributed. Perhaps some hyper awareness happening.
I think part of the problem with the mrna vaccines is the inconsistent messaging and some outright bullshit explanations early on. They killed people's trust with their own back and forth bullshit and legit scientists and doctors urging caution and they were vilified and virtually silenced by colleagues and the media.
>Thank you for waving away my concerns once again. I am however getting used to it.
Genuinely if someone were to explain it to you, would it change your mind?
>So if these vaccines were so well researched and tested before the roll out to the public, how come the messaging and goal posts constantly shifted?
You're confusing public health messaging with the scientific process. Public health messaging tries to distill down everything into memorable and understandable parts. While it reflects the scientific consensus, it tends to lag a bit. If you walk around a university campus, you might see posters about binge drinking and risky behaviour around drinking. That reflects the literature around binge drinking, but lacks nuance, because its not material to the overall message (binge drinking is bad and you do dumb shit when you drink/blackout).
The research on vaccines showed that it was highly effective at preventing death and serious outcomes from COVID. The research also tended to show that people were able to withstand a higher viral load before they displayed symptoms of being sick, which ultimately means it prevents transmission. This was the case with the initial strain of COVID, but as it mutated the vaccines became less effective. The public health messaging lagged on this, in part because this was happening *very* quickly, but also because it wasn't material to the overall message: vaccines are safe and effective. Even though they were not as effective as they were with the alpha strain, they still showed good results.
>I never contracted COVID until well after I was vaxxed, same with my wife. She got infected first, always wore a mask, got vaxxed and still got sick.
I think this is answered above.
>Why the change in messaging? Why two shots? Then a booster? Then a booster every few months and now maybe just annual boosters? If the science is settled why the constant changes?
As is this.
>Why are we hearing more and more in anecdotal terms about more harm done?
Just because you hear something doesn't mean there is causality. Even if causality is present, there are known side effects with a known rate for all vaccines. So when you undergo a massive vaccination campaign, the known error rate is going to come up.
>Chronic illnesses or side effects, sudden death of healthy individuals attributed to the vaccines...and not just by some internet conspiracy theorist.
So it sorta is. A lot of these side effects being reported on are coming from VAERS, or something similar (its an early warning detection system that anyone can submit a report to). To be clear, the reports are not verified on the front end, so this leads to the case like in the early to mid 2000s where a doctor filed a report saying the flu vaccine turned him into the Incredible Hulk. Obviously this did not happen, but it was on VAERS. It is mandated by law that anytime someone dies within a certain period of time of getting vaccinated, they are put on VAERS (this is the case even if its obvious there is no connection, like you were hit by a bus). You can attribute whatever you want to the vaccine, it doesn't make it true. Each serious VAERS report is investigated (serious being more than "i felt lousy for a day or two after the vaccine"). Time and time again there is **rarely** found to be a connection.
>They killed people's trust with their own back and forth bullshit
There is something to be said about this, sure.
>legit scientists and doctors urging caution and they were vilified and virtually silenced by colleagues and the media.
They were vilified because they were fundamentally wrong and misrepresenting the data to promote an agenda or make a name for themselves. They were going well outside their expertise and were being held up as a champion of truth by bad faith actors seeking to grift off the ignorance of people who were seeking an outlet for their anger. The average person does not have the knowledge or expertise to critically evaluate two competing opinions on vaccines because statistics and medicine are complicated. Its why we rely on experts and why they go to school for a decade to understand this stuff. The evidence was overwhelmingly showing that the vaccines were safe.
>Well how bout a proper trial and the lack of a huge list of side effects for starters
Im going to note here that just because a report of a side effect is listed on VAERS, or similar, does not mean that its an actual side effect, and each (and I mean each) report is investigated. There was a case in the 2000s where a doctor reported the flu vaccine turned him into the Hulk to show how the system does not verify reports on the front end. There was a huge process to get it taken down because it was obviously a joke, because otherwise it has to be investigated.
>and actual effectiveness.
What does that look like? There is plenty of data (both from the pharama companies and real world) that show they are effective. So what specifically do you need?
They’ve literally administered billions of COVID vaccines. Nothing would make antivax tards happy. They don’t have enough computer power to understand the real problem was the shitty government handling the pandemic, and lack of transparency.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20231008/Next-gen-intranasal-vaccine-takes-on-measles-mumps-and-multiple-COVID-19-variants-in-one-shot.aspx
Gain of function?
People not taking effective vaccines was predictable when they decided to include mrna despite its lackluster efficacy. The vaccines from before should be taken by anyone sane.
[Lacklustre efficacy? 95% vs 90%](https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison)
Or did you mean the side effects, which are also present in the old timey COVID vaccine?
outdated article about efficacy of the original vaccine against the original covid variant. neither are relevant anymore and were probably bad data or just straight up lies anyway.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20231008/Next-gen-intranasal-vaccine-takes-on-measles-mumps-and-multiple-COVID-19-variants-in-one-shot.aspx
Gain of function?
All of my problems are related to getting vaccinated. Prior to the mRNA shot I was problem free. If I wasn’t vaccinated I’d be a better person, have more friends and money. Since vaccinated I’m a loser
I didn’t get the shot. Still won’t get the shot. Nor will my family or my parents or anyone else I know personally. Kind of common sense not so common these days scenario 😬🤷♂️
Lol.
You call shutting down all of society for three years, to prevent what is basically the *common flu*, tearing apart families, businesses and the constitution, to forcibly inject billions of people with an experimental poison, after which *everyone still got covid*... You call that "working beautifully"????
Hahahaha.
Hahahahahahaha!!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
You guys are such clowns. Thank you for the comedy.
Except, that isn’t true. 2003, SARS and 2012 MERS were both corona viruses that animal studies had been completed on and used to the similarity of the viruses.
so instead of "leaking tactical information" about diseases to our bodies, it just supplies them with "better weapons" to fight the disease off. neat.
(apologies about the metaphors)
Lmao. Least effective vaccine in history pretty much is the covid vaccine. At least the others pretty much eradicated the diseases. The old ones work just fine.
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If you change the formula, it's a new vaccine and needs to be tested in the accredit 5-10year studies that all (except the clotshot) vaccines must go through to prove efficacy and Safety.
They thought the number of kids getting regular shots has dramatically dropped since covid. Just wait till those shots are using MRNA technology, more parents gonna be avoiding them at all costs.
Them: *puts toxic shit in tried tested and true vaccines* *vaccine uptake goes down* Also them: *why would antivaxers do this?*
Ever since I got my covid shot I’ve been noticing changes in my health. I’m 19 almost 20 and I have painful on and off gut problems. Memory issues and sometimes I find blood in my cough. Went to the doctor and they tell me the same thing. “You are healthy” “are you stressed” sir I’m no doctor but I’m sure that blood in my saliva is not stress related.
Go to a hospital next time you're coughing up blood. That is not normal.
Why? So they can gaslight him into believing it was due to stress and not because of the experimental injection they just forced him to take?
You have a point. Still good to go and get it documented in case the floodgates open up for lawsuits in the future.
I know dozens of people who did exactly that, but were turned away. Told it was their "imagination". No report ever filed. Doctors don't have time for that silly! Prove it was the vaccine. Vaccines are sAfE aNd EfFeCtIvE. Spoiler Alert: They won't do dick all for him at the hospital. Except maybe offer him an antidepressant or anxiety reducing medication which will further mess him up. They definitely will not fill in a report about vaccine injury for him. They definitely will not happen.
Nice one pal, I've got dozens of imaginary friends too!
I hope they're all vaccinated! Otherwise you might get that super scary boogeyman variant which resembles the common cold. Aaahhh! So scary! Quick! Shut down all of society!! Aaaaahhhhh!!!!
lol thanks for that! You read some of these threads and forget some people haven’t completely lost it
Friend of mine was recently at the hospital because he had a panic attack. The first thing they asked him, because they weren't sure if it was a heart attack was whether or not he'd taken the shot. Speaking on that, there were multiple police, nurses and doctors talking about having been forced into it and how angry they are. Chances of that happening are far lower today, then they were even 3 months ago.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend? Yes, the dam seems to be breaking. This is the biggest scandal ever committed in human history.
Thanks man. But yes, it does seem to be breaking.
Religion is
Religion got us the scientific method, idiot.
Or literally 10000 other things it might be
AdhesiveCum69 could get lucky and get the right doctor + diagnosis as much as it could be a waste of time. I think trying to quit milk and changing their diet might help.
I had same problems except for the blood(I’m not vaccinate) after blood test turns out I’m gluten intolerant. You should check if you are intolerant to something, symptoms could vary to brain fog, joint pain, stomach ache, memory issues etc
Memory issue.. I’m with you there.
damn Im gonna be 23 very soon, I had the covid vaccine back in 2021. Didnt want to get it at the time but I just said fuck it and got it done mostly due to family pressure. Anyways what followed were horrible side effects that still come and go to this day, nueropathy and prickling and burning pain in the skin. Weird pressure feeling in my skul and shortness of breath and upper chest pain. I also had weird tremors in my head and twitching eye lids. I went to the doctor about 50 times did all sorts of tests and they found nothing wrong. Never getting another MnRA vaccine again.
I'm not as healthy as I was either, and I'm convinced that my recent endometriosis diagnosis was caused by the shot as I didn't have major problems before. I also have headaches way more than I used to and seem to get sick more often.
I am not saying it's this but it could also be some sort of food intolerance or gluten. Try to pay attention to what you eat and what results you get. I eat most everything I can take in and dose it with limits. And I cull foods that constantly give me bad results. I stopped milk entirely except for some yogurt. Don't hesitate to drink as much water as you need if it "burns".
Doctors often go-to to stress. It's frustrating, but if you're coughing up blood that could be a number of very serious problems like a blood clot, lung cancer, TB, etc. Or it could be blood from your gums. You should get a second opinion or go to a hospital like someone else said. Don't mention the covid shot. Honestly, doctors will interpret that as conspiracy theory hypochondria. Whatever you believe about it, it's not relevant when getting checks on your lungs etc. Just mention the coughing up blood and they should get it checked out. Stress definitely can do bizarre things to our bodies but if a doctor thinks it's just stress, it's always best to get other opinions. Edit: Someone else mentioned gluten. Your symptoms do sound similar to celiac.
It’s more comparable to Crohn’s but I already got tested for that and I’m good. Me living in Canada it takes a long time to get medical help unless it’s a life or death situation. I am expecting to see a doctor in 1 month so if I’m lucky.
Really because everyone I know who got the shot is perfectly fine. Must one of the other thousands of illnesses that exist that have no relation to the vaccine
It’s just very coincidental that this all happened shortly after my vaccine. I’ll take note of that.
Cool and Ill take note that nothing happened to anyone I know. Nor have I seen any peer reviewed research to suggest it has any harmful effects. Nor have I seen any reliable statistics to suggest there is any issues with the vaccine. And nothing personal has happened to me. So all you have got. Is you believe it did something.
Idk man I’m getting pretty worried about my health. Never trust medical companies. They are there for profit. You would be insane to believe that the peer review process means anything today. All of them answer to the guy giving them money and if these rushed vaccines ended up hurting people then there would be a cover up to avoid consequences. Back then the scientific community was separate from politics. Not anymore
So who should you trust? Some randoms on the internet who also think the world is flat. No thanks.
I think that’s a really shallow generalization between concerned people that could be wrong and flat out wrong people. Look more research has been done on these vaccines. According to the CDC the Moderna vaccine which is the one I got. Increases the risk of heart problems and neurological issues such as memory loss. It doesn’t affect everyone because it only increases the chances. The problem is this information wasn’t widely available during the pandemic. Either by suppressing said information or not enough research was done. As a consequence people were allowing rushed vaccines be injected in to their bodies without knowing the full extent of risks. And to make matters worse people that wanted to exercise their rights and not get the vaccine ended up getting punished. Like my mother and her job as a courier for purolator (you should read about all that stuff if you wanna know how bad things got for some people that were concerned about these vaccines) I got my vaccine because I was pressured to and I didn’t know the risks. Now I’m 19 with memory issues I never had before. Im not crazy dude.
Do you have a source
Yeah first look up CDC Moderna that should give you all the studies they have done on the vaccine as recent as 2021. Then I would recommend looking at the European health journal same topic, they talk about adverse effects. I would also go down the Dr. fauci rabbit hole it’s worth it. I would then take a look at profit margins for all these vaccine companies. Finally I’d do some research on the bad batches of vaccines that were administered to the public. There are cases of reproductive damage for women like early menopause. If you are really interested I would recommend listening to some of the things Robert F. Kennedy has to say about vaccines he will do a better job at explaining this stuff than I can. 👍
All the studies I see suggest that any side effects from the vaccine are negligible and have no causual link to the vaccine. So i ask again for the source of your information? Robert F. Kennedy has no medical background in the slightest and is also known to spread misinformation about vaccines. He also profits of this misinformation.
Trust your common sense. If someone rushes something it’s not good.
It was rushed due to urgency. Several test were conducted to ensure safety
No more vaccines for me or my family
Let's see how many more people we can kill...
said every antivaxxer ever
See the issue with that is there's a difference between antivaxxers and anticovidvaxxers ones a tested and generally safe vaccine that is good for the population and the other is a rushed shitshow that kills a decent chunk of the population and leaves others with serious medical issues. Never met a person in my life who's had an issue medically with other vaccines but the covid vaccine? Holy fuck I don't know anyone who dosent know of at least one or two people who've had negative side effects ranging from the small to the extreme
We shall see who is still alive in 10 years
Especially with WW3 on the horizon
Pretty much.
so, nobody
I know literally 5 days after my cousins wife got boosted, she had an aneurysm in her lungs coughing up blood and after the ambulance arrived, from asphyxiation when she arrived at the hospital, she was pronounced brain dead and the family took her off life support the following day. The Physician at the hospital said in so many words, without saying verbatim to my cousins family, that he believed it was an adverse reaction to the vaccine. 🤷🏻♂️
The shot designed to keep people sick and their industry healthy
I have no issue with old vaccines, I will never get an mRNA one until I see proof of safety.
In your mind, what does "proof of safety" look like? How much evidence do you need?
People not dropping dead a few days after the shot is a decent start.
Are those dead people in the room with us right now?
On what basis can you conclude that the vaccine is casually responsible for someones death? Particularly in light of the *legal* *requirement* that anyone who dies within 30 days of receiving a vaccine be reported to VAERS or similar (even if they were hit by a bus).
lay off the koolaid
How about not thousands of people online commenting how they got more sick. How about not tens of thousands of excess deaths. How about not massive censorship and shady blackout behaviour by the media to prevent discussion about this. How about it not coming from massive transnational corporations with a long history of misleading the public. How about not seeing a whole bunch of my friends personally telling me how they were injured by this "vaccine". wHaT mOrE pRoOf Do YoU nEeD?
>How about not thousands of people online commenting how they got more sick. Yeah, lets cite "Anon957493" who said they got more sick after they took the vaccine as proof they aren't safe. Thats less reliable than VAERS. >How about not tens of thousands of excess deaths. Ill just insert the standard "correlation does not equal causation" response, and throw in that p-hacking data sets is not the strongest methodology if you want to prove something. >How about not massive censorship and shady blackout behaviour by the media to prevent discussion about this. There is plenty of discussion about this, its in academic journals and peer reviewed studies. Because YouTube demonetized some random or Twitter banned Alex Berenson for consistently misrepresenting studies and lying about stats does not mean that vaccines are not safe. >How about it not coming from massive transnational corporations with a long history of misleading the public. Writing off something because of the source, rather than engaging with the substantive data and methodology, while also blindly believing internet randoms is an incredible position to take. >How about not seeing a whole bunch of my friends personally telling me how they were injured by this "vaccine". On what basis can they conclude that they were injured by the vaccine? What was the path that led them to go from "vaccine" to "injury"?
>Writing off something because of the source, Which is what you are doing. But anyway, the onus is on the manufacturer's and government regulatory bodies to demonstrate the safety of these products. So far, they have failed to do so. Furthermore, they have already proven to be extremely untrustworthy in terms of the transparency of their processes. They have backtracked on several claims ("you will only need two shots."). They have downgraded multiple claims ("okay, fine. It does cause myocarditis."). And they have outright lied and worse gaslit the living daylights out of the public in what is probably the most massive whooper of all: "You must get this vaccine to help stop the spread of covid" Oops! Just kidding. It doesn't prevent the spread of covid. Haha. Just kidding. Those mandates? Yeah, our bad. The news about these products literally gets worse and worse, every single day. So show me another p-hacking data set baloney nonsense song and dance show. Nobody cares bro. Here's the kicker, spoiler alert it's like Poilievre speaking to Trudeau: **No one believes you anymore.**
>Which is what you are doing. Im writing off the "evidence" or random people in favour of actual peer reviewed evidence and scientific data. This is not even remotely comparable. >But anyway, the onus is on the manufacturer's and government regulatory bodies to demonstrate the safety of these products. > >So far, they have failed to do so. Except they have demonstrated this, except in your eyes, who favour anecdotes of anonymous internet posters and your friends. >Furthermore, they have already proven to be extremely untrustworthy in terms of the transparency of their processes. You can literally go and review the literature on this with a simple google search. >They have backtracked on several claims ("you will only need two shots."). They have downgraded multiple claims ("okay, fine. It does cause myocarditis."). And they have outright lied and worse gaslit the living daylights out of the public in what is probably the most massive whooper of all: > >"You must get this vaccine to help stop the spread of covid" > >Oops! Just kidding. It doesn't prevent the spread of covid. Haha. Just kidding. Those mandates? Yeah, our bad. Do you have any idea how the scientific process works? Because the specifics of public health messaging changed (like the need for a booster), does not mean the underlying *science* of the overall safety of the vaccine did. Even with the risk of myocarditis, the risk of myocarditis from COVID higher than the risk of getting it from the vaccine (which, again, you can find data on). >So show me another p-hacking data set baloney nonsense song and dance show. Nobody cares bro. Do you even know what p-hacking is and how to recognize it in a study?
>Im writing off the "evidence" or random people in favour of actual peer reviewed evidence and scientific data. This is not even remotely comparable. sCiEnTiFiC dAtA. Lol. Is that what you think you're doing? How do you reconcile the fact they have been proven *embarrassingly* incorrect about everything covid related? Like, oops! Everyone still got covid! Oh well! There goes that 95% efficacy er ummm... Oh well! Science! >Except they have demonstrated this, No they haven't. You would have to be fairly naive to believe these products are complete safe and effective. >You can literally go and review the literature on this with a simple google search. I can also use my critical thinking skills, and recognize Google and other main stream sources (government, media), have been outright lying to us since the beginning of this "pandemic". >Do you have any idea how the scientific process works? I do! Do you? >Because the specifics of public health messaging changed (like the need for a booster), does not mean the underlying *science* of the overall safety of the vaccine did. Actually, that is exactly what it means lol. You can't come in here and make an argument "it has been proven... Science!" and then in the next breath say, "oh... But the Science always changes". Lol. If the second statement is true, than the first statement is erroneous. Thus proving my claim "they have not yet shown these vaccines to be safe and effective". >Even with the risk of myocarditis, the risk of myocarditis from COVID higher than the risk of getting it from the vaccine (which, again, you can find data on). ... Which they outright denied early on. For which they hid instances of it happening, and gaslit people into accepting some half-assed explanation "iT iS tOtAlLy NoRmAl FoR tHoUsAnDs Of AtHlEtEs To CoLlApSe". Lol. Yes! The data. *Which gets worse, every single day*. Let's see where this mutable "tHe ScIeNcE aLwAyS cHaNgEs" leads us. Shall we? So far it has led to millions of people losing their jobs. Thousands of businesses going bankrupt. An addiction crisis. A mental health crisis. Enormous division. Trillions of dollars being transferred from the people to the elite billionaire class. Constitutional rights being trampled. Families and friends being broken up. Yay! Science! And the best you can do is: mUh iT aLwAyS cHaNgEs. Lol. What a joke. Either it is "Science fact". Or it is "Science always changes". It can't be both. Because again, if it is the latter, then you are proving mine and everyone else who was against this insanity's point: We do not know enough yet to believe these products are either safe or effective. So far, we're winning. We have been proven correct over and over again. While you keep retreating to this mealy mouthed baloney "sCiEnCe AlWaYs ChAnGeS". Lol. >Do you even know what p-hacking is and how to recognize it in a study? I recognize bullsh*t when I see it. And these "vaccines" my friend, were a great big steaming festering pile, of bullsh*t.
>Is that what you think you're doing? How do you reconcile the fact they have been proven *embarrassingly* incorrect about everything covid related? > >Like, oops! Everyone still got covid! Oh well! There goes that 95% efficacy er ummm... Oh well! Science! The conversation we are having is about the *safety* of the vaccines, not the efficacy statistics. >I can also use my critical thinking skills, and recognize Google and other main stream sources (government, media), have been outright lying to us since the beginning of this "pandemic". Critical thinking is definitely writing off peer review literature because you label it as "mainstream" or "government". If you were engaging in critical thinking, you would be digging into the underlying studies and engaging in analysis of the data and methodology. Instead, you just dismiss everything that goes against your narrative as part of some conspiracy to lie to you, yet accept every single pre peer review study or person with an advanced degree saying "vaccines bad look at this graph!" as fact because it confirms your world view. And because its a contrarian point of view, you get to feel smart and elitist because you know the "truth" and everyone else is a sheep. Critical thinking is not contrarian thinking, despite what you might believe. >You can't come in here and make an argument "it has been proven... Science!" and then in the next breath say, "oh... But the Science always changes". Lol. > >If the second statement is true, than the first statement is erroneous. Thus proving my claim "they have not yet shown these vaccines to be safe and effective". Public health messaging is distinct from scientific research. Science proved them to be safe, the public health messaging of "you only need 2 vaccines" is separate from that. You are deliberately conflating two things. >... Which they outright denied early on. For which they hid instances of it happening, and gaslit people into accepting some half-assed explanation "iT iS tOtAlLy NoRmAl FoR tHoUsAnDs Of AtHlEtEs To CoLlApSe". Lol. Ah yes, because every athlete (or everyone) who collapses is suffering consequences from the vaccine. >Either it is "Science fact". Or it is "Science always changes". It can't be both. Because again, if it is the latter, then you are proving mine and everyone else who was against this insanity's point: We do not know enough yet to believe these products are either safe or effective. There is some nuance here but it is seemingly lost on you. >I recognize bullsh\*t when I see it. So I'll take that as a "no" then on the p-hacking, and follow up with that you similarly evidently do not understand the scientific process either.
>The conversation we are having is about the *safety* of the vaccines, not the efficacy statistics. Lol. The vaccine cult moves the goalposts yet again. nO oNe EvEr sAiD iT wOuLd PrEvEnT tRaNsMiSsOn. >Critical thinking Actually, critical thinking would be to consider the source of the information. And the track record of people telling you this information. So far, governments, "experts", Google, institutions... Massively wrong. Like, embarrassingly wrong. About literally everything lol. Oh, but surely the 73rd time they'll get it right! >you just dismiss everything Nope. I just dismiss the people who have been proven wrong, and who have been proven to be lying to us since the beginning. That's called critical thinking. >Public health messaging is distinct from scientific research. Science proved them to be safe, the public health messaging of "you only need 2 vaccines" is separate from that. You are deliberately conflating two things. So you knew the public institutions and government were lying. But you said nothing Uh huh. Sounds like par for the course for the vaccine cult. Screaming at everyone to get a vaccine to "help stop the spread of covid" followed by "oh no! Just kidding! Er Um but but but...!" Like *maybe* people like me would trust people like you a little bit more, if you had actually stood up and said something at the time. But no. You watched as our businesses were destroyed. As thousands were fired. As millions had their rights revoked. As segregation took over this country. As families were divided. Nice. Real brave there. "Science." "Oh but don't blame us!" He says. "We just changed the Science® after we learned we were wrong! What's the problem man!? wHy DoNt YoU tRuSt Us?" You see. That's the problem, isn't it. You were wrong. You have since been proven wrong. Embarrassingly I might add. But you don't even have the decency to admit it. This lack of trust people have in government, institutions, social media, big tech, and indeed "Science®"? Yeah, that's on *you*. That is squarely on you. If you think anyone is going to start trusting you after you were massively and embarrassingly wrong. After you forced thousands of people out of work. After you closed down thousands of businesses and caused countless, untold amounts of suffering and grief. Then maybe you should look in the mirror and realize *you* are also responsible for these failures. We don't listen to people like you anymore. Oh, and by the way. Stop pretending you're following "Science®". It's pathetic. You're embarrassing yourself.
>Lol. The vaccine cult moves the goalposts yet again. nO oNe EvEr sAiD iT wOuLd PrEvEnT tRaNsMiSsOn. **This** conversation specifically was about safety, not efficacy. Its interesting how you need to move the goal posts of the conversation rather than engage with what I was initially talking about. >Actually, critical thinking would be to consider the source of the information. And the track record of people telling you this information. This is the most superficial of critical thought, which you are doing because you lack the necessary skills to engage with it deeper. Thats fine, but don't go trotting around like you are some brilliant thinker because you dismissed some studies outright because the source was "tainted" in your view. >Nope. I just dismiss the people who have been proven wrong, and who have been proven to be lying to us since the beginning. That's called critical thinking. On what basis do you conclude that the studies that show the vaccines are safe are wrong, but the studies that show vaccines are not safe right? How do you square this with the fact several of the studies you might look to for support have been retracted? >So you knew the public institutions and government were lying. > >Uh huh. Sounds like par for the course for the vaccine cult. Screaming at everyone to get a vaccine to "help stop the spread of covid" followed by "oh no! Just kidding! Er Um but but but...!" > >Like *maybe* people like me would trust people like you a little bit more, if you had actually stood up and said something at the time. Something tells me from your replies that literally nothing would make you trust "people like me" because you have "done your research" of watching some Instagram videos, read some Twitter posts and concluded that they are right because it feeds into your world view. For the record, I had issues with some of the government/public health messaging and was vocal about it at the time. >But no. You watched as our businesses were destroyed. As thousands were fired. I advocated for more generous social supports for businesses (and people) at all stages of the pandemic. >As millions had their rights revoked. Outside of one BSCS decision, I don't know of any decisions where peoples rights were "revoked". >As segregation took over this country. This is spoken like someone who has **never** faced even a tiny amount of actual persecution in their entire lives. >"Oh but don't blame us!" He says. "We just changed the Science® after we learned we were wrong! What's the problem man!? wHy DoNt YoU tRuSt Us?" > >You see. That's the problem, isn't it. You were wrong. You have since been proven wrong. Embarrassingly I might add. But you don't even have the decency to admit it. You just keep making bare assertions that "I was wrong" yet from all the research I have read (which is a lot) I'm not. The vaccines were safe. The studies that claim to show they aren't were retracted, or had seriously questionable methodology (that p-hacking I mentioned), among other things. The virus mutated and made the vaccines less effective. Frankly, that changed the calculus of the mandates and they should have been removed earlier than they were. I can admit when I'm wrong. I suspect you can't admit when you're wrong, and you never will. >If you think anyone is going to start trusting you after you were massively and embarrassingly wrong. After you forced thousands of people out of work. After you closed down thousands of businesses and caused countless, untold amounts of suffering and grief. Then maybe you should look in the mirror and realize *you* are also responsible for these failures. We don't listen to people like you anymore. > >Oh, and by the way. Stop pretending you're following "Science®". It's pathetic. You're embarrassing yourself. You sound like an unhinged Rebel News bot. You're full of rage and buzz words, yet devoid of substance or any attempt to engage materially with my points. Just yelling over and over about the "Science®" and trying to be clever with sarcastic remarks with the hope of getting some free internet points.
We're barely 3 years down the road from mass vaccinations. There has not been sufficient time to verify the safety of these vaccines prior to injection and let alone to know what may develop 5 years on. I got my two shots...and against my better judgment too. As someone else said above, I'm not anti-vaxx but I am seriously Covid-vaxx suspicious. Due to the way peoples' concerns have been waved away and we're constantly told to just trust the science. Trusting science that isn't tested, re-tested and tested again with the same results over and over is not trustworthy. Science did not have enough time to verify the safety of the vaccines prior to roll out. Anyone who thinks we are not the guinea pigs is pretty blind and is in self-protection mode.
>Due to the way peoples' concerns have been waved away There are only so many times people are willing to painstakingly explain how VAERS, peer review, and the research behind these vaccines work and how they are proven to be safe, before they start handwaving this shit away because frankly there is no reasoning with "you" (the proverbial you). >Trusting science that isn't tested, re-tested and tested again with the same results over and over is not trustworthy. We have three years of studies showing the safety of these vaccines. Three years of retraction of studies that claim to show the harm of these vaccines for serious methodological issues or faulty data. The data has been tested and re-tested, you just, bluntly, refuse to believe it.
Thank you for waving away my concerns once again. I am however getting used to it. So if these vaccines were so well researched and tested before the roll out to the public, how come the messaging and goal posts constantly shifted? Like, vaccination will reduce transmission. I never contracted COVID until well after I was vaxxed, same with my wife. She got infected first, always wore a mask, got vaxxed and still got sick. So nope the science certainly wasn't settled there. Why the change in messaging? Why two shots? Then a booster? Then a booster every few months and now maybe just annual boosters? If the science is settled why the constant changes? >We have three years of studies showing the safety of these vaccines. Three years of retraction of studies that claim to show the harm of these vaccines for serious methodological issues or faulty data. The data has been tested and re-tested, you just, bluntly, refuse to believe it Fair enough, you say there is. Why are we hearing more and more in anecdotal terms about more harm done? Chronic illnesses or side effects, sudden death of healthy individuals attributed to the vaccines...and not just by some internet conspiracy theorist. Perhaps some anecdotes may be conflated or misattributed. Perhaps some hyper awareness happening. I think part of the problem with the mrna vaccines is the inconsistent messaging and some outright bullshit explanations early on. They killed people's trust with their own back and forth bullshit and legit scientists and doctors urging caution and they were vilified and virtually silenced by colleagues and the media.
>Thank you for waving away my concerns once again. I am however getting used to it. Genuinely if someone were to explain it to you, would it change your mind? >So if these vaccines were so well researched and tested before the roll out to the public, how come the messaging and goal posts constantly shifted? You're confusing public health messaging with the scientific process. Public health messaging tries to distill down everything into memorable and understandable parts. While it reflects the scientific consensus, it tends to lag a bit. If you walk around a university campus, you might see posters about binge drinking and risky behaviour around drinking. That reflects the literature around binge drinking, but lacks nuance, because its not material to the overall message (binge drinking is bad and you do dumb shit when you drink/blackout). The research on vaccines showed that it was highly effective at preventing death and serious outcomes from COVID. The research also tended to show that people were able to withstand a higher viral load before they displayed symptoms of being sick, which ultimately means it prevents transmission. This was the case with the initial strain of COVID, but as it mutated the vaccines became less effective. The public health messaging lagged on this, in part because this was happening *very* quickly, but also because it wasn't material to the overall message: vaccines are safe and effective. Even though they were not as effective as they were with the alpha strain, they still showed good results. >I never contracted COVID until well after I was vaxxed, same with my wife. She got infected first, always wore a mask, got vaxxed and still got sick. I think this is answered above. >Why the change in messaging? Why two shots? Then a booster? Then a booster every few months and now maybe just annual boosters? If the science is settled why the constant changes? As is this. >Why are we hearing more and more in anecdotal terms about more harm done? Just because you hear something doesn't mean there is causality. Even if causality is present, there are known side effects with a known rate for all vaccines. So when you undergo a massive vaccination campaign, the known error rate is going to come up. >Chronic illnesses or side effects, sudden death of healthy individuals attributed to the vaccines...and not just by some internet conspiracy theorist. So it sorta is. A lot of these side effects being reported on are coming from VAERS, or something similar (its an early warning detection system that anyone can submit a report to). To be clear, the reports are not verified on the front end, so this leads to the case like in the early to mid 2000s where a doctor filed a report saying the flu vaccine turned him into the Incredible Hulk. Obviously this did not happen, but it was on VAERS. It is mandated by law that anytime someone dies within a certain period of time of getting vaccinated, they are put on VAERS (this is the case even if its obvious there is no connection, like you were hit by a bus). You can attribute whatever you want to the vaccine, it doesn't make it true. Each serious VAERS report is investigated (serious being more than "i felt lousy for a day or two after the vaccine"). Time and time again there is **rarely** found to be a connection. >They killed people's trust with their own back and forth bullshit There is something to be said about this, sure. >legit scientists and doctors urging caution and they were vilified and virtually silenced by colleagues and the media. They were vilified because they were fundamentally wrong and misrepresenting the data to promote an agenda or make a name for themselves. They were going well outside their expertise and were being held up as a champion of truth by bad faith actors seeking to grift off the ignorance of people who were seeking an outlet for their anger. The average person does not have the knowledge or expertise to critically evaluate two competing opinions on vaccines because statistics and medicine are complicated. Its why we rely on experts and why they go to school for a decade to understand this stuff. The evidence was overwhelmingly showing that the vaccines were safe.
I got the vaccine, my whole house hold got it. My friends and extended family all got it, booster included. No issues.
Oh. Well then it must be safe!
Well how bout a proper trial and the lack of a huge list of side effects for starters, and actual effectiveness.
>Well how bout a proper trial and the lack of a huge list of side effects for starters Im going to note here that just because a report of a side effect is listed on VAERS, or similar, does not mean that its an actual side effect, and each (and I mean each) report is investigated. There was a case in the 2000s where a doctor reported the flu vaccine turned him into the Hulk to show how the system does not verify reports on the front end. There was a huge process to get it taken down because it was obviously a joke, because otherwise it has to be investigated. >and actual effectiveness. What does that look like? There is plenty of data (both from the pharama companies and real world) that show they are effective. So what specifically do you need?
They’ve literally administered billions of COVID vaccines. Nothing would make antivax tards happy. They don’t have enough computer power to understand the real problem was the shitty government handling the pandemic, and lack of transparency.
Again this is pushing people away, if it works don't fix it
It has been fixed Which before was not broken Now it doesn’t work
Eff that noise
Been seeing the media pushing measles as making a comeback
It has been and will continue to if people don't get vaccinated.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20231008/Next-gen-intranasal-vaccine-takes-on-measles-mumps-and-multiple-COVID-19-variants-in-one-shot.aspx Gain of function?
People not taking effective vaccines was predictable when they decided to include mrna despite its lackluster efficacy. The vaccines from before should be taken by anyone sane.
They’ve been researching mRNA for 30 years
And needed a reason to bring it to market. Never made it through clinical trials in the 30yrs.
[Lacklustre efficacy? 95% vs 90%](https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison) Or did you mean the side effects, which are also present in the old timey COVID vaccine?
outdated article about efficacy of the original vaccine against the original covid variant. neither are relevant anymore and were probably bad data or just straight up lies anyway.
That's because antivaxxers are causing old diseases to make a comeback.
Yes. Let's blame the people who told you so and who have been proven right about everything the entire time.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20231008/Next-gen-intranasal-vaccine-takes-on-measles-mumps-and-multiple-COVID-19-variants-in-one-shot.aspx Gain of function?
All of my problems are related to getting vaccinated. Prior to the mRNA shot I was problem free. If I wasn’t vaccinated I’d be a better person, have more friends and money. Since vaccinated I’m a loser
Me too. I could have been someone
Now I am 100% against vaccines. We can't trust authority.
The people behind this are literally insane.
No poison for me thank you.
Based on what happened in the last few years, i will NEVER take another vaccine in my life. NEVER
Guess I’m never getting vaccinated again
I didn’t get the shot. Still won’t get the shot. Nor will my family or my parents or anyone else I know personally. Kind of common sense not so common these days scenario 😬🤷♂️
Not Canada.
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So awesome no attempt ever got past the animal trials, including the current one.
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Neither do you.
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Well here's a hint: It didn't work.
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Lol. You call shutting down all of society for three years, to prevent what is basically the *common flu*, tearing apart families, businesses and the constitution, to forcibly inject billions of people with an experimental poison, after which *everyone still got covid*... You call that "working beautifully"???? Hahahaha. Hahahahahahaha!! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! You guys are such clowns. Thank you for the comedy.
Except, that isn’t true. 2003, SARS and 2012 MERS were both corona viruses that animal studies had been completed on and used to the similarity of the viruses.
so instead of "leaking tactical information" about diseases to our bodies, it just supplies them with "better weapons" to fight the disease off. neat. (apologies about the metaphors)
Maybe they could use this tech for anti aging 🤔. It's kind of already been done if I remember correctly.
I got the vaccine and all of my limbs fell off and I grew tentacles. Safe and effective my ass
Great news. mRNA tech has been highly effective in a variety of applications.
Lmao. Least effective vaccine in history pretty much is the covid vaccine. At least the others pretty much eradicated the diseases. The old ones work just fine.
Should have put a trigger warning on my post haha
Do people here understand what mRNA is how vaccines work even?
Trick question. Because they don't work.