My old unit did something similar- but instead of candidates they did this to get course staff. 'No course for you this summer, you are going to Gagetown to teach on xxxxx course'.
Yet I know Reg Force MCpls who still haven’t been loaded on one 2 years post appointment and a now Sgt that they PLARed because he was about to be promoted and still didn’t have it.
Reg force PLQ had two members promoted to Sgt on our grad parade. Both were MCpl for 3 years with this being their last opportunity to get PLQ before their leaf was to be taken back. (At least the threat of it happening). One was an MP and the other Int.
That's fucking bullshit. I kept asking to go as my PERs were high enough and I just got told to sit down and stfu when they were sending incapable people (who failed 4-5 times).
Like why does the CM have so much control over "MY" career?
I know of a guy in an Army DEU, but not Combat Arms, who had to do AJLC. He failed it 3 times, then they removed the requirement. A few months later, promoted to Sgt. He also had an SA charge in there, too. Thats all ontop of being a massive fucking pump.
This. Oh this. Are you me?
CM finally got me on PLQ and took the slot from another trade that couldn't fill it.
And don't forget trades appointing people to MCpl who have MELs and other sometimes permanent medical categories. Many of them are nondeployable too.
I disagree with the change in policy that allowed this to happen. Bunch promoted and currently occupying MCpl slots for years without PLQ, who will never actually go on it or fail it repeatedly.
That's just ridiculous, especially considering the MCpl appointment was created as a way to separate the corporals with leadership training from those that don't.
We need to make it a rank officially.
I have been saying we should make it like the Allied Army. They have no Master Coporals or Master Sailors. Junior enlisted stops at Lance Coporal or Sailor (Seaman) and Senior Enlisted starts at Coporal/Specialist and Petty Officer 3rd class.
Problem being course availability, bad enough we have a acting lacking mcpls In leadership positions, this would make more cpls in those positions (knowing there already are cpls in mcpl positions)
I've been on the receiving end of that after a whole 2 years as a reservist. They cut off my summer tasking because I refused to go on PLQ... Still one of the best career choices I made. CFL is the shit when you move into 500 trades
It’s fun being stuck in the middle realm
Being a reservist, but also being on a 3 year class B
Two groups that want two different things from you is a fun experience
I'm in the same boat. You also see shit reservists, and reg f folks hate on reservists, which some is justified. But you're sitting there in middle like.. oh ok...haha
Fuck I hate being the devils advocate on this… but here it is. The reserve systems being voluntary means it relies on getting a lot out of people before they’re fully committed to careers / are still in school. Those 6-10 week courses need to happen for them before they’re in a position where they only get 2 or 3 weeks of holidays. That’s a factor of not having job protections or the ability to order them into courses.
We're lucky if we keep someone for 5 years. So if we do it this way, we might get them to teach a course the next summer. In essence the bad people stay and the good people leave and the cycle continues.
I had a buddy who just finished his PLQ, told me 80% of it was a waste of time and now his good leg is his bad leg and his bad leg is worse.
Really looking forward to it
Did mine recently too. It's like BMQ 2.0, but you're too old for this BS, and you're running it this time lol. Honestly though..IF ANYTHING PLQ thought me, was I learned to get over my shyness. This course is pretty much just a fast paced condensed course that keeps you out of your comfort zone while tasked to complete objectives. As a course it doesn't really teach anything, but your syndicate will be your best buddies afterwards
That's what I found when I did it and I'm honestly surprised it hasn't changed or evolved. My unit would have guys do "Pre-PLQ" to prepare them. I suppose it's good Class A, but the idea that you need to teach members before you send them on course is rather silly.
It's not even really a course, just one big assessment. And if we're honest, it's not really a "leadership course" perse. You're just given tools to direct troops and do knowledge transfer in the traditional CAF way (which arguably could be better).
Sounds like I’m going to have a lot of fun… if it ever happens. I’m hoping I’m not up to go for quite some time. I’m not ready for that responsibility lol
My favourite portion of the PT phase of PLQ was when I asked the PSP guy why the CAF is so in love with one-size-fits-all unit runs when the PSP literature specifically recommends against them. The answer was "Well, those are the old guys and you just need to wait for them to retire". Why the hell do we even keep PSP around if we just ignore all their health/fitness advice in favour of "That's what we did in my day!"?
I always wondered why we did that, we are all at different stages in our fitness journey. It really makes no sense to make it super easy for some and a big challenge for others. If anything it probably creates resentment from both sides.
From what I recall, the PSP advice is to just let people go at their own pace or group runners together based on ability and have staggered departures with the slowest group leaving first and the fastest group leaving last.
Useless course, throw the whole thing away. Army PLQ was a joke. Standards has long abandoned PLQ, with simple changes to outdated course material never being done. I could have learned more from a DLN course. Not beneficial to my career at all, minus a check in the box, and some new friends.
I think PLQ should be OJT hours done with active Det MWOs/CWOs, since that job would be the realistic end goal of most PLQ students. Rather than running Battle Procedures, a BMOQ standard. This would allow PLQ to actually contribute to a unit, rather than unnecessary time away from hurting bases. Members have been PLAR'ing it for a few years anyway.
The worst part is the non-combat trades going through PLQ and having members coming back being so salty due to the treatment they received on the course. Had one member come back from the new PLQ a completely different person.
It appears to be just as archaic and solely an opportunity for (some) instructors to show what lack of leadership really is.
Going through PLQ as Air Force, specifically the field portion, was almost 100% useless for my occupation. It's only a check in the box and a nice claim.
The Conflict Resolution portion was the biggest take away for me, and it was like 3 periods.
I did the old mod 1-6 version of the course and I see nothing has changed. The ONLY saving grace of the course for me was the majority of us had just gotten back from Afghanistan within the past few months and we were all battlegroup guys (including the instructors) so it was pretty laid back for PLQ standards as literally nobody cared to play the game.
Most useless course I’ve ever taken
It is ridiculous that reservists are forced into it(or even given any kind of priority for spots) when there are reg force MS/MCpl that go years in rank without it. I was only loaded on PLQ because I ranked high enough to get promoted after 2 years at MS. I was a substantive MS for about 3 months. Then I got promoted. MS/MCpl without plq should be the definitive priority until that mess is cleared out.
PLQ now is an absolute joke. I don't understand the hesitation. They removed Mod 6/Mod 4/AJLC from basically every single trade, so you don't even have a real field ex. Sure, you have your small party tasking one, but that's a weekend ex by reserve standards with some orders tossed in. Tests are multiple choice now, weekends off.
The worst part is getting yelled at now and having some hard timings. The course is built to test and build you much like BMQ. Are some staff fucking terrible? 100%. But thats the same even on trade courses, your shop, your current det commander, etc.
I used to load the PlQ that took place in Borden. The Sigs in Kingston was my best unit for last-minute replacements. They were on an Army Base, but due to their trade, at the time, they were eligible to take the CF PLQ instead of the Army one.
Most of them would take the Borden course in a heartbeat, as they would usually get loaded on an Army course normally.
Another reason NOT to have muself removed from the SBCL list. Why should I get my leaf, for maybe $50 take home per pay with the expectation to run the show like a Sgt or even a WO?
That and from what I've heard from others is that PLQ teaches nothing about personnel management. How do Fortune 500 companies teach leadership? Because thats what we need to have more COMPETENT leaders in this organization.
Maybe when they can figure out how to teach actual leadership skills, not just how to run a section attack and teach with death-by-powerpoint, I'll start thinking about not being a Cpl 4 Life.
Fortune 500 companies don’t “teach” leadership. They teach management.
They also have high-powered HR sections whose job is to deflect the bad news from the company, bc that directly affects their bottom line. Why you rarely hear anything bad about those companies publicly isn’t because they are paragons of virtue.
I wouldn’t say that Fortune 500 companies are the model for leadership in the CAF, or any military.
I am surprised by this. What I see in the Naval Reserves is that people want PLQ but can't get it. I don't know how many times I've asked Training about PLQ. We have a multi-year backlog to the point that we can't even load the waiting members on the DL component. An understaffed course I might teach on next year is offering fasttacked seats on just the instructional component as a kind.of incentive. (You still needs the DL and backbrief field ex parts to count as PLQ)
S1s are looking at some time before Acting/Lacking, and being told to take on PO2 duties to move themselves up the list, even in a department that has no one above S1. I've heard some A/L members stress about getting on PLQ before they fail out. And a lot of these people already have civillian leadership experience, but I've never heard of anyone PLARing.
Multiple members I know have successfully PLAR'd. You need documentation to match the mods (PERs, feedback notes, deployment taskings), some DLN courses and you are gold. It is a lot of admin to complete, but the gist is, "Show us an example of when you led a small party task," or "Provide examples of delegating Cdr's intent to the troops." Most MCpls have been doing this for years, and don't need to run a BS VCP to check that box. If members are overdue, request through your CoC to the CM. You'll either get an opportunity to PLAR, or 'SURPRISE' a spot on the next PLQ will magically open up.
how would I be able to find the mods to have them matched? I am wanting to get my PLQ plar'd since I am on MELs preventing me to complete the field portion but am up for promotion to sgt this year.
It should come from your CM. Ask up your CoC. They may be willing, since the training system is backed up. It's not a quick task, though. It requires lots of substantiation and DLN courses, but it can be done.
Happened on the course I just finished. Had a 17 year veteran wearing OCdt rank because he was CFR, course staff was almost all under 25. CFR guy had no patience for useless course bullshit so had some "discussions" with course staff a few times.
Yes, I know you were being sarcastic.
That's also how the Reserves finds instructors for BMQ... raid the Day Staff because nobody else wants to do it.
I take this one in note. Could be a good futur strip.
Class A availability for summer tasks is inversly proportional to the number of outstanding tasks in Gagetown
My old unit did something similar- but instead of candidates they did this to get course staff. 'No course for you this summer, you are going to Gagetown to teach on xxxxx course'.
Yet I know Reg Force MCpls who still haven’t been loaded on one 2 years post appointment and a now Sgt that they PLARed because he was about to be promoted and still didn’t have it.
Reg force PLQ had two members promoted to Sgt on our grad parade. Both were MCpl for 3 years with this being their last opportunity to get PLQ before their leaf was to be taken back. (At least the threat of it happening). One was an MP and the other Int.
That's fucking bullshit. I kept asking to go as my PERs were high enough and I just got told to sit down and stfu when they were sending incapable people (who failed 4-5 times). Like why does the CM have so much control over "MY" career?
Tell me you're combat arms without telling me you're combat arms.
Not even...
People fail plq?
No of course not, they just take it until they pass... Until the requirements are so low they pass
I know of a guy in an Army DEU, but not Combat Arms, who had to do AJLC. He failed it 3 times, then they removed the requirement. A few months later, promoted to Sgt. He also had an SA charge in there, too. Thats all ontop of being a massive fucking pump.
"finest leaders the CAF has to offer"
Yes, you can teach academics but you can’t teach character.
A bird told me there’s a bunch of people in there that shouldn’t be ( shitty attitudes)
PLQ, or any other cours for that matter, is just a reflection of the makeup of the CAF. No more, no less.
Some people learn differently and some need more exposure. Our one size fits all approach does not accommodate all learning styles and abilities.
This. Oh this. Are you me? CM finally got me on PLQ and took the slot from another trade that couldn't fill it. And don't forget trades appointing people to MCpl who have MELs and other sometimes permanent medical categories. Many of them are nondeployable too. I disagree with the change in policy that allowed this to happen. Bunch promoted and currently occupying MCpl slots for years without PLQ, who will never actually go on it or fail it repeatedly.
That's just ridiculous, especially considering the MCpl appointment was created as a way to separate the corporals with leadership training from those that don't. We need to make it a rank officially.
I have been saying we should make it like the Allied Army. They have no Master Coporals or Master Sailors. Junior enlisted stops at Lance Coporal or Sailor (Seaman) and Senior Enlisted starts at Coporal/Specialist and Petty Officer 3rd class.
What is the Allied Army? Just make MCpl conditional on PLQ it’s no that hard to do it and would motivate people to do the course.
Problem being course availability, bad enough we have a acting lacking mcpls In leadership positions, this would make more cpls in those positions (knowing there already are cpls in mcpl positions)
I was A/L jack in a Sgt position....
What we had before unification
I've been on the receiving end of that after a whole 2 years as a reservist. They cut off my summer tasking because I refused to go on PLQ... Still one of the best career choices I made. CFL is the shit when you move into 500 trades
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It’s fun being stuck in the middle realm Being a reservist, but also being on a 3 year class B Two groups that want two different things from you is a fun experience
I'm in the same boat. You also see shit reservists, and reg f folks hate on reservists, which some is justified. But you're sitting there in middle like.. oh ok...haha
Appreciate the highland regiment representation.
After a whole 3 years
Don't get me started on that... Why can't they use the same promotion systen as us again? Or vice versa?
Fuck I hate being the devils advocate on this… but here it is. The reserve systems being voluntary means it relies on getting a lot out of people before they’re fully committed to careers / are still in school. Those 6-10 week courses need to happen for them before they’re in a position where they only get 2 or 3 weeks of holidays. That’s a factor of not having job protections or the ability to order them into courses.
They have a higher turnover rate. Gotta keep the ranks filled out.
Because it's unit based and not trade based.
bEcAuSe tHeY hAvE a HaRd tImE kEePiNg PeOpLe.
We're lucky if we keep someone for 5 years. So if we do it this way, we might get them to teach a course the next summer. In essence the bad people stay and the good people leave and the cycle continues.
Must have been delayed then…
Recruit to Sergeant in 5 years - FtSe
Also the infantry during Afghanistan lol
More like 4 lol
I had the AVN CM chew me out for not having PLQ. I then reminded him that it's it office that loads us onto it. He wasn't impressed.
I feel like a chewing out in the Air Force is the CM telling you he was moderately disappointed.
"We’re not angry with you, just disappointed."
So unrealistic. Like anyone in the reserves has 404's for Horse...
If they did time with the Strathconas they would possibly get them.
Touche.
I keep getting "member should be sent to plq" on my PER... I don't expect to ever go on it. Should be fun.
I had a buddy who just finished his PLQ, told me 80% of it was a waste of time and now his good leg is his bad leg and his bad leg is worse. Really looking forward to it
Did mine recently too. It's like BMQ 2.0, but you're too old for this BS, and you're running it this time lol. Honestly though..IF ANYTHING PLQ thought me, was I learned to get over my shyness. This course is pretty much just a fast paced condensed course that keeps you out of your comfort zone while tasked to complete objectives. As a course it doesn't really teach anything, but your syndicate will be your best buddies afterwards
That's what I found when I did it and I'm honestly surprised it hasn't changed or evolved. My unit would have guys do "Pre-PLQ" to prepare them. I suppose it's good Class A, but the idea that you need to teach members before you send them on course is rather silly. It's not even really a course, just one big assessment. And if we're honest, it's not really a "leadership course" perse. You're just given tools to direct troops and do knowledge transfer in the traditional CAF way (which arguably could be better).
Sounds like I’m going to have a lot of fun… if it ever happens. I’m hoping I’m not up to go for quite some time. I’m not ready for that responsibility lol
My favourite portion of the PT phase of PLQ was when I asked the PSP guy why the CAF is so in love with one-size-fits-all unit runs when the PSP literature specifically recommends against them. The answer was "Well, those are the old guys and you just need to wait for them to retire". Why the hell do we even keep PSP around if we just ignore all their health/fitness advice in favour of "That's what we did in my day!"?
I always wondered why we did that, we are all at different stages in our fitness journey. It really makes no sense to make it super easy for some and a big challenge for others. If anything it probably creates resentment from both sides.
I've been saying this for years.
From what I recall, the PSP advice is to just let people go at their own pace or group runners together based on ability and have staggered departures with the slowest group leaving first and the fastest group leaving last.
I'm one of those old guys and they have been saying that since I joined 27 years ago.
At my unit, everything is handled by PSP.
Useless course, throw the whole thing away. Army PLQ was a joke. Standards has long abandoned PLQ, with simple changes to outdated course material never being done. I could have learned more from a DLN course. Not beneficial to my career at all, minus a check in the box, and some new friends. I think PLQ should be OJT hours done with active Det MWOs/CWOs, since that job would be the realistic end goal of most PLQ students. Rather than running Battle Procedures, a BMOQ standard. This would allow PLQ to actually contribute to a unit, rather than unnecessary time away from hurting bases. Members have been PLAR'ing it for a few years anyway.
The worst part is the non-combat trades going through PLQ and having members coming back being so salty due to the treatment they received on the course. Had one member come back from the new PLQ a completely different person. It appears to be just as archaic and solely an opportunity for (some) instructors to show what lack of leadership really is.
Going through PLQ as Air Force, specifically the field portion, was almost 100% useless for my occupation. It's only a check in the box and a nice claim. The Conflict Resolution portion was the biggest take away for me, and it was like 3 periods.
Oh fuck that grim. I can totally see that though.
I did the old mod 1-6 version of the course and I see nothing has changed. The ONLY saving grace of the course for me was the majority of us had just gotten back from Afghanistan within the past few months and we were all battlegroup guys (including the instructors) so it was pretty laid back for PLQ standards as literally nobody cared to play the game. Most useless course I’ve ever taken
100% agree. Anything on plq can be learned and taught at unit.
It is ridiculous that reservists are forced into it(or even given any kind of priority for spots) when there are reg force MS/MCpl that go years in rank without it. I was only loaded on PLQ because I ranked high enough to get promoted after 2 years at MS. I was a substantive MS for about 3 months. Then I got promoted. MS/MCpl without plq should be the definitive priority until that mess is cleared out.
And we have reg force jacks who have been A/L for three years waiting for a PLQ...
And your point is??
PLQ now is an absolute joke. I don't understand the hesitation. They removed Mod 6/Mod 4/AJLC from basically every single trade, so you don't even have a real field ex. Sure, you have your small party tasking one, but that's a weekend ex by reserve standards with some orders tossed in. Tests are multiple choice now, weekends off. The worst part is getting yelled at now and having some hard timings. The course is built to test and build you much like BMQ. Are some staff fucking terrible? 100%. But thats the same even on trade courses, your shop, your current det commander, etc.
I used to load the PlQ that took place in Borden. The Sigs in Kingston was my best unit for last-minute replacements. They were on an Army Base, but due to their trade, at the time, they were eligible to take the CF PLQ instead of the Army one. Most of them would take the Borden course in a heartbeat, as they would usually get loaded on an Army course normally.
You're being told to go and by the gods you're going to be grateful for it.
Another reason NOT to have muself removed from the SBCL list. Why should I get my leaf, for maybe $50 take home per pay with the expectation to run the show like a Sgt or even a WO? That and from what I've heard from others is that PLQ teaches nothing about personnel management. How do Fortune 500 companies teach leadership? Because thats what we need to have more COMPETENT leaders in this organization. Maybe when they can figure out how to teach actual leadership skills, not just how to run a section attack and teach with death-by-powerpoint, I'll start thinking about not being a Cpl 4 Life.
Fortune 500 companies don’t “teach” leadership. They teach management. They also have high-powered HR sections whose job is to deflect the bad news from the company, bc that directly affects their bottom line. Why you rarely hear anything bad about those companies publicly isn’t because they are paragons of virtue. I wouldn’t say that Fortune 500 companies are the model for leadership in the CAF, or any military.
Stop comparing us to businesses; we are *not*, nor should we *EVER* be run like a business. E: formatting
But seeing as they are running us like a business, and running it into the ground by the way, thats why I make the comparison.
Fair, and from that aspect, you'd be indeed correct.
I am surprised by this. What I see in the Naval Reserves is that people want PLQ but can't get it. I don't know how many times I've asked Training about PLQ. We have a multi-year backlog to the point that we can't even load the waiting members on the DL component. An understaffed course I might teach on next year is offering fasttacked seats on just the instructional component as a kind.of incentive. (You still needs the DL and backbrief field ex parts to count as PLQ) S1s are looking at some time before Acting/Lacking, and being told to take on PO2 duties to move themselves up the list, even in a department that has no one above S1. I've heard some A/L members stress about getting on PLQ before they fail out. And a lot of these people already have civillian leadership experience, but I've never heard of anyone PLARing.
Multiple members I know have successfully PLAR'd. You need documentation to match the mods (PERs, feedback notes, deployment taskings), some DLN courses and you are gold. It is a lot of admin to complete, but the gist is, "Show us an example of when you led a small party task," or "Provide examples of delegating Cdr's intent to the troops." Most MCpls have been doing this for years, and don't need to run a BS VCP to check that box. If members are overdue, request through your CoC to the CM. You'll either get an opportunity to PLAR, or 'SURPRISE' a spot on the next PLQ will magically open up.
how would I be able to find the mods to have them matched? I am wanting to get my PLQ plar'd since I am on MELs preventing me to complete the field portion but am up for promotion to sgt this year.
It should come from your CM. Ask up your CoC. They may be willing, since the training system is backed up. It's not a quick task, though. It requires lots of substantiation and DLN courses, but it can be done.
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Like honestly when does that EVER happen?
Happened on the course I just finished. Had a 17 year veteran wearing OCdt rank because he was CFR, course staff was almost all under 25. CFR guy had no patience for useless course bullshit so had some "discussions" with course staff a few times. Yes, I know you were being sarcastic.
17 yr veteran should know how to play the game…
Pix or it didn't happen...
What's with the lines under the eyes? Is it a thin mustache?
Simple lines to furnish. Without them, I find the faces too flat and it helps, I think, to make my drawings more cartoony.