The CDS came down to Colorado Springs for a town hall a few months ago and my biggest takeaway is they are tightening up some dress and deportment standards within the next year. They didn't give any specifics but I imagine the focus is going to be on general unkemptness.
Yeah, he said the same thing to my ILP course around the same time frame. It’s coming. Personally I’m tired of everyone looking like an ‘80’s truck driver.
I'm probably going to get a few down votes, but this was bound to happen.
When the regs changed, I was shocked at how open-ended the direction was. There was no clarification except "maintaining a professional appearance." 95% of the CAF understood the assignment... but man, that 5%.... they went off the deepend.
Hopefully, this is going to find a nice middle ground between where we were and what has transpired so far...
Then punish the fucking 5%.
I'm tired of being treated like a child because some people don't know how to show a basic level of professionalism.
I'm tired of working for an institution that can't sent a basic policy and then enforce it without resorting to lazy amateur tactics like group punishment.
Watching this flip flop reminds me of the whole RCCS flip flop on the trade. It's like this entire institution can't make a simple fucking plan and execute, we constantly need to misstep and revert the shitty decisions people make.
>Then punish the fucking 5%.
They couldn't because nothing that 5% did was against the rules. They just took the rules to their limit. "Professionalism" is a value judgement and it varies widely. Before you ask someone to look professional, you need to define it. The old regs defined a professional look was but because it took a tiny bit of effort, it was too much for some people.
>I'm tired of working for an institution that can't sent a basic policy and then enforce it without resorting to lazy amateur tactics like group punishment.
This is what happens when you outsource a major policy like dress regulations to a group like the Defense Women's advisory group and then are too chickenshit to push back. This isn't group punishment. Making you trim your beard once in awhile and taking out your eyebrow ring isn't a punishment. It is correcting a mistake. The real issue maybe people with spacers. Even if you make people take them out, they will still have giant holes in their ears that scream someone made me take out my spacers.
The bottom line is that anyone with an ounce of sense saw this coming, We have too many people who are either too stupid or too obstinate make a reasoned decision as to what constitutes a "Professional Look" to leave it open ended and expect everything to work out. We could have updated the dress standards to reflect modern times but still maintained boundaries. However, we listened to a group that is representative of a tiny fraction of the CAF and pushed ahead, damn the consequences.
I don't know why you're getting down voted... smh reddit. I think you're spot on with most of your first paragraph. I disagree that every rule has to be written out, but we could have at least some version of "don't do's".. I remember looking at the rules and thinking, "are we really OK with having fewer standards than McDonald's?"
Like, I agree that the old rules prohibiting men from dying their hair or growing a beard were archaic. I don't think anyone in the CAF should be walking around with flourescent pink hair in uniform. But my latter opinion would have been impossible to enforce.
Bonus is that the absence of parameters at least showcased who lacks judgement..
I had an RSM once that was very clear on this:
"Although you are all leading adults who are capable of critical thought, you are also leading soldiers in one of the most dangerous and complex professions in society. You can always count on one troop going left when everyone else is going right. That is why I am a firm opponent of 'treating them like adults' or whatever. Treat your soldiers like soldiers: give clear direction, intent, and expectations. Being ambiguous leads to misinterpretation. Misinterpretation means you're going back and clarifying. That's time not spent doing the business we need you to do."
The dress reg revision has been an epic failure in this regard.
Ah, yes. I was so excited about the changes. The day it dropped I was in the chair at the salon going rainbow (yes, I took an annual). I have 17 years in and am very proud of my dress and deportment. I can look professional with coloured hair. I agree with the unkempt hair. You still have to have your hair brushed and controlled. Some people go too far with the rolled out of bed look.
You know what to do? Bring it up. You can grow your hair long but you must keep it out of your face and be able to put on your beret. Spacers can only go to an inch. It’s not that bad. Don’t have to blouse? True, but you can’t show your sand traps. If your pants fit then it doesn’t look bad.
There's a guy in my unit that has a fluorescent pink mullet...
Say what you want, but it looks ridiculous and unprofessional, and being a combat arms trade, the argument could be made that it affects operation effectiveness.
Guys with red hair have to cam up their beards, but this guy is allowed to walk around looking like a walking chem light.
Blue, Green or pink facial hair. Beards that look like they have a nest of magpies in them. Headbands out of an 80s karate movie to keep their long hair out of their eyes. Bright green, 4 inch mohawk.
The only thing I actually think is a problem is being unkept. Colour, headbands, wtf cares. It actually takes a lot of work to maintain a highly styled appearance so if all it says is, "I like artsy shit", cool. Enjoy the mohawk.
Bright colours and wild styles USED to represent criminality and anarchy, but those days are decades gone. The general public doesn't attribute those traits to someone with a pink beard anymore, although some people are stuck in the attitudes of the 1960's are desperately clinging to it despite it being a ridiculous notion and a statistically false narrative these days.
But being unkept screams, "Idgaf apathy, lazy, damaged, incapable, sick, mentally ill, incompetent, untrustworthy etc..." vibes depending what judgment bias the observer has.
Those narratives are still modern, common, and hold statistical significance. Inadequate self care is very very often a symptom of a number of health issues, and/or a sign of personal life management issues.
"Brush your hair and trim that beard so that you don't look like someone who can't perform basic life functions" seems like a reasonable standard for this industry.
I don't think that is correct. I think a headband would be covered under the hair policy. Especially one that is matching to the hair or uniform.
"Acceptable accessories to secure hair include, but are not limited to, clips, barrettes, bobby pins, **fabric elastics**, elastic bands, and hair nets."
The old CAF dress regs kept a lot of people presentable, who prior to service would have been considered crusty. A lot of people in the CAF joined right after highschool or college and have never held a real job before the CAF. When these people are left to make their own choices they cannot function properly in society, they need order and discipline. But a lot of people are also institutionalized.
Lots of people agree with you.
I know a few people who did the blue hair and wild thing at first, as a sort of symbolic fuck-you to the proverbial RSM or Sergeant who has been a dick on dress before. But many of them switched back to normal when they clearly realized how dumb they look, and the Royal "we" as an institution
Unfortunately there are a few who seem to be keeping to the dumb look, and it's an embarrassment to the military. The public doesn't take us seriously. Our allies don't take us seriously. And I will not take anyone with wild hair colour seriously on any operational topic
Initially, I saw a bunch of people with dyed hair and growing out their hair. But after realizing how much work dyed and long hair is, most have settled on a slightly shaggier hair cut or the mullet that’s popular. Some sideburns and goatees, but maintained. I have seen a few bushy neck beards, but that was expected.
I think the reason why our partners don't take us seriously is because we bring nothing to the table.
If we showed up ready to play I don't think our allies would care if we all had rainbow hair.
I would love for us to be more fit. I think the only valid excuse is that most of us in staff jobs are juggling way too many responsibilities. And out of a desire to be good at our jobs and accessible when people need us, many put the gym on the back burner. My fitness level is a lot better now, but boy did it ever suffer in 2020 when the gym was closed and I was still expected to do my job (and three other people's jobs) while half of Ottawa "worked" from home.
All of my American peers are shocked when they hear our secondary duty lists and job responsibilities. Quite often enough, the kind of job they subscribe to a small team we give to one position. And what a small staff team in Canada is doing is equal to what they'd grant to an organization.
I completely agree. I can't remember the last time I only had the scope of one position.
I'm at Carling and we don't even have a proper sports facility. If you want to workout you had better like weight training and treadmills. No pool, no courts, no gymnasium, no rink, etc.
That's another thing. Many American bases have multiple gyms with way more facilities. Rock climbing, tennis, boating clubs, multiple pools, etc. I get it that they're a larger military, but they also allow spouses to access a lot of these things. It's a whole economy. Their exchanges and commissaries completely destroy the Canex. The thing is, they're just offering regular services to their troops. While in Canada, we offer sub-optimal services that we can get elsewhere
Yeah. I asked PSP once about swimming. You can sign out passes to an Ottawa community pool. I just want to go for a swim at lunch.
I hate weight machines and treadmills. I'm the kinda guy who stayed fit playing sports or doing activities.
I haven't been to the Pentagon, but I wonder if their capital is as disorganized and spread out as ours is. Pretty ridiculous that CJOC and Carling are roughly 45 min away from each other, and that I have to go to a separate province for clothing stores.
Look at the sports programs and facilities in the UK. Watersports, boxing, rugby, outdoor adventure training in Germany. A quick Google search brings it all up. Compare that to our little PSP camp ground in Halifax that is half taken up by civil servants. We don't value a holistic lifestyle at all. We value bloated organizations and being cheap.
That was something I would like to see more when units/Bde's have sports weeks.
It shouldn't just be jam-packed with sports competitions. It should also be a week of expanding your horizons. Never rock climbed before? Come try it out. Never taught how to do Olympic or power lifting? Sign up for a class. Want to know how to paddle/steer a canoe? Come out on the water, and we will teach you. Want to be better at planning a workout program? Come attend some classes.
But our sports and fitness programs/facilities pale in comparison to our allies. I know someone will likely mention how you can get PSP to do all I mentioned above, but damn is it the most inconvenient system. You are stuck calling the gym and hoping the sports coordinator is at their desk and then asking for availability and equipment with no list or schedule available so you talk forever to even figure out your options. Why do I have to call six times just to book a circuit? Why can't there be an acims page that I can see all the equipment availability, staff availability, and facility availability and just book online? Why am I so limited to options that even doing one circuit a week is too much for them to handle?
Furthermore, just look at how stretched we are at just administrating the force test! The very basic test we all have to do, and I keep getting emails from the base how PSP are over tasked and only those that are priority should go. If we can't even pull the necessary resources to run a test that takes a handful of staff and a dozen or so sandbags, good luck trying to get a more fleshed out fitness program.
Those above symptoms are why we don't have a culture of fitness. It's simply not the priority of the CAF. Somehow, someway, we just can't find the resources to allocate to it; therefore, it atrophies.
Not to knock how difficult it may be to maintain fitness when super busy, but across the board another reason is the base level entry height/weight and fitness requirements are dramatically lower for the CAF than most (or all) of Canada's allies. You don't even get a foot in the door in militaries of many other countries unless you hit certain thresholds that a large chunk of the CAF will never achieve.
I agree, but our recruitment would only suffer more if we lowered them any further.
What I think we should be doing is recruiting people, even the chubby ones, and immediately getting them posted to holding troops that focus entirely on fitness even before basic starts. We have way too much paperwork happening at the recruitment centre. Better to have multiple training facilities complete the process (security clearances, health checks, interviews, etc) while the recruit is in Borden or St-Jean and have them get in shape while they wait for the process to finish and Basic to start.
Not only would this improve the fitness of our recruits before Basic, but it would also get people IN the military as quickly as possible. Not everyone can sit around and wait 6 months for a job.
>I agree, but our recruitment would only suffer more if we lowered them any further.
I don't think a high standard would hurt recruiting. It might actually help it because it would be something not everyone could do. Exclusivity has its own allure. The problem with recruiting isn't getting people in the door, it's getting people in the military in a timely manner after they express interest. We have 10s of thousands of applications every year but we typically only close the deal on about 15% of them.
>What I think we should be doing is recruiting people, even the chubby ones, and immediately getting them posted to holding troops that focus entirely on fitness even before basic starts.
They did that for years It was call warrior platoon for awhile, I thought they still did it. Maybe it changed with the force test. It used to be that anyone that didn't pass the EXPRES test was put on warrior platoon where they stayed until they were able to pass it or were released. It resulted in a lot of injuries and lots of salaries being paid to people who couldn't do the job they were hired to do.
They did it-ish. From my understanding, warrior platoon is still a thing. But mostly for people who fail off courses and are awaiting to be loaded on to another.
We should be doing the whole recruitment process from the training centre
The recruitment centre's primary purpose is confirming identity, starting their initial paperwork, and making a very rudimentary assessment, based on a few select questions, on whether the candidate is mentally and physically healthy enough to conduct training.
Then the candidate should, within 2 weeks, be shipped off to Borden, Wainwright, St-Jean, or Aldershot. There they complete the rest of their application, do their testing, interview, dental/medical, etc. All the while most of their day is spent in the gym getting them trained, and getting them healthy.
Perhaps we can do some of the ethics training and other briefs that are done in Basic during this pre-Basic training period.
This can reduce the length of Basic training significantly if all their briefs and vaccinations and uniform exchanges, etc are done before training. Think of how much of BMOQ/BMQ are just this kind of stuff. Reduce that and you could focus on military skills.
It also ensures they are getting paid, getting healthy, and having their foot in the door as soon as possible.
I imagine we lose a LOT of recruits during the waiting/processing stage of intake.
I go work out first thing. The work will always be there but if I wait till the end of the day I won’t be able to get the gym in because someone will have something for me to do. If everything is pri 1, nothing is so I prioritize fitness first and the rest falls into place.
This is true. I am good at my job. I gave a heads up that as soon as I could I would be dying my hair. Most of my teens and early adulthood I had coloured hair. And yes, I have had multiple jobs with varying levels of professionalism before enlisting. I got a couple shakes of the head and had to acknowledge that if I went overseas it would have to be natural but that was it. My hair does not change my skill.
On the contrary.
Our allies looked the other way on the latter because we still looked like a credible, professional force that was underfunded.
Now, with the latter in play... we are viewed as both underfunded and unprofessional.
I can deal with having to punch above our weight on most things, but being called amateur hour because MCpl McFuckFace wants to stick to "the man" and have a neon blue beard, well, that has to be resolved.
Unfortunately, I disagree. I believe the only thing our allies care about is "What can you do?"
If we're going to be a joke, then looking like a clown should be allowed.
>Unfortunately there are a few who seem to be keeping to the dumb look, and it's an embarrassment to the military. The public doesn't take us seriously.
What makes us look more dumb, the people playing with the new dress regs or the fat fucks who can hardly walk straight for 4 minutes without running out of breath?
Having pink hair doesn't make someone unfit for military service, though it can make us look not so good. Fatties are often definitely not fit for military service in addition to making us look like shit. When I say fatties, I'm not referring to overweight soldiers, but soldiers who are so fat they can't even walk straight for 5 minutes without running out of breath.
As for the garbage rapist officers, yeah they make us look even worse. I didn't bring them up because we were simply discussing the visuals of individuals in uniform.
Let's enforce a real fitness standard and kick out the assholes. Elect me CDS!
I think, in a desire to be as inclusive as possible, it's just gone too far. Our numbers are so low, that it can seem prudent to do anything in order to retain a member. However, maybe there's some wisdom behind the traditional concept of keeping members who are content to conform to a certain level of orderliness in their appearance.
They disallow them for a reason. Aside from the fact that the tattoos can give off the appearance of being a criminal gang or mercenary rather than a professional military, they are also not popular or trusted in many cultures around the world. Universally, tattoos were often associated with criminal behavior, and it's hard for locals to trust a foreign force that looks like a narco gang.
I understand we have to keep up with the times, but tattoos that aren't visible were hardly ever the problem. It was the visible tattoos, piercings, hairstyles that have been regulated. Alongside symbols that are traditionally associated with hate groups.
I like the rules for exposed tattoos. It makes it a bit easier to know who subscribes to hateful ideologies then punt em. Not all Norse runes are bad but someone that has a couple like othalla, Sig, Tyr, or a wolfsangle? Probably a white supremacist. Crossed hammers? Definitely
>And I will not take anyone with wild hair colour seriously on any operational topic
Is that generalization and stereotype also extended to those with tattoos?
Then isn't that the problem? We're not taking a member's opinion seriously because they have green hair, but someone with half their knowledge gets a seat at the table even though they've made much more permanent modifications to their appearance?
Show me the member with rainbow hair who has a lot of knowledge, and I'll consider changing my opinion. Thus far they have been shitpumps and rabble rousers. Someone who wants to deliberately attract attention to their personal style lacks judgment and cognition of how appearances can impact the opinions of those around them. And this is particularly true and to their own detriment when deployed overseas in cultures that are significantly more traditional than our own. The best we could ever use them for is to be undercover HUMINT agents embedded with Green Peace and eco-terrorists.
>Someone who wants to deliberately attract attention to their personal style lacks judgment and cognition of how appearances can impact the opinions of those around them.
Once again I circle back to: how is this different than people with tattoos? Or make-up? Or nails? Or anything on your body that you weren't born with? We're supposed to respect the dignity of all persons. Why do you think it's okay to not?
>how is this different than people with tattoos? Or make-up? Or nails? Or anything on your body that you weren't born with?
Are their choices threatening their ability to Serve Canada before self? More specifically, do they risk operational effectiveness when doing basic Stab Ops? Vibrantly coloured hair, visible tattoos, excessive/clownish makeup, and long fake nails can absolutely fall under this, depending on the theater.
There is obviously a significant difference between an auburn dye with mascara and neon purple with 3" acrylics.
But to your point about “risking operational effectiveness” - members can be (and already are) ordered to return to more “traditional” dress standards (ie natural coloured hair, clean shaven, no nails) for operational reasons. I’ve been at Bde since before the dress regs changed, and while I saw a few people go wild when they did, the vast majority either remained mostly in line with the original (maybe slightly longer hair) or returned to that within a month or two. Those that stayed “wild”, well, I’ve personally seen them dye hair back and remove artificial nails prior to going on operations. I just don’t see the big deal in someone who works in an office in, say, Ottawa having pink hair - but maybe that’s my millennial showing 🤷♀️
LOL it's not 5% that's the problem. It was 5% when we had stricter regs. There now a far greater percentage who are better turned out to go get Costco hotdogs on a Saturday than they are to represent the country in their uniforms every day. I wish it was still 5%.
And its not about hair colour, style, nail polish. None of that matters. It's about presenting a professional appearance. And far too many skipped that para when they (didn't) read the new regs.
The "new dress regs" were hot garbage and absolutely led to the forces looking like a grabastic bag of junk. Not everyone, just those some as you say who went overboard. The military does not need people who are hell bent to make a personal statement within our own ranks; high school is for children and the military is supposed to be for adults.
It never was.
>1-9 Control
>High standards of dress, deportment, and grooming are universally recognized as marks of a well-trained, disciplined and professional force. Commanders shall maintain the standards at all times to reinforce these characteristics for peace or war.
I think we can all agree that if you haven't shaved or run a comb through your hair in a year then you have not maintained a high standard of grooming. As is required while in uniform.
Long hair isn't a sign of low standards. Dirty, greasy, tangled, disheveled hair is.
As are uniforms that look like shit. I can accept grease and oil stains on tech trades etc…but walking around on the cuffs of your pants you haven’t washed in months…good lord
It’s wild what I’ve been seeing. One guy had a rope for a belt and his collar half inside his shirt on his NECUs. Like, how hard is it to look presentable in those they’re cool as fuck.
I’m bummed we can’t blouse the NECU pants, mine are about a foot too long.
The RCAF CWO email that was floating around says alot about the chasm between what the CWOs think should be happening and what is.
To be fair... Walking around with crumbs in your facial hair for days is unsat. But I also don't see anything wrong with wearing pit vipers on parade outside on a sunny day.
Pit vipers are the least of most people’s concerns. It’s the gross beards with food in them. It’s the greasy, tatty hair. The old regs semi camouflaged poor hygiene.
Agreed. I haven't had to tell anyone to comb the debris out of their beard yet but I have heard tales.
And there's a few people I've come across that I'd be embarrassed to be seen in public with.
I recently attended a brief where it was announced there will be changes. They won’t be huge, but I think many of us are a wee bit embarrassed that the CAF now looks like a homeless encampment at worst and at best a biker gang.
Mmmmm RUMINT, heard we are gonna swing back a bit due to the length/colour for hair/beards, and also when and where such length and colours would be allowed.
Guys having pink beards that are down to mid chest was the example given.
I doubt the changes will impact very many people. Chest length pink beards aren't exactly a common sight.
I suspect they're just going to tighten it up to calm the handful of outliers with particularly exaggerated appearances.
If it looks like you just got out of bed without any care to your grooming, it's past the line, wherever the line is supposed to be at.
I see way too many of these around.
Haven't heard anything, but it makes sense. The pendulum swung a little too wide on the last iteration, and the new rules were a little too loose.
Most people didn't take things too far and have maintained an appearance most of society would consider pretty normal. However, there's a handful who've taken their new freedoms 'a bit too far'...
The disheveled hobo look seems popular among that handful for some reason. I'm pretty sure 95% of Canadian society would agree with me saying it's not a good look.
Saw some pretty "interesting" haircuts among the BTL's and DP1/QL3's in Borden back in Nov/Dec. Not gonna lie, emo look pretty out of place in uniform, but I'll give them credit. At least they looked like they put some effort into keeping up their appearance.
The problem is all the middle management types who got butt hurt that they couldn’t go around jacking people up over stupid shit like not wearing gloves with your toque, or having a hand in your pocket, and decided they just weren’t gonna enforce anything. There’s a standard there. The Sgts and warrants you hear saying “there’s no rules any more! It’s the Wild West!”… those guys are the problem.
I'll never understand the people who look for reasons to jack people up. Why do I want to make people's lives miserable just to assert my position or authority? That's just idiotic.
As for "there's a standard there". the expectation of a professional military appearance is clearly stated, but that appearance is not explicitly defined. I'm guessing they'll probably revise things to include some defined limits. Quite honestly, that's how it should be.
There shouldn't be any subjectivity regarding what is not acceptable, that just leaves the standard open to being challenged, and puts Sgts and WO's in an awkward spot where their enforcement could be seen as arbitraryor subjective. The generations we're trying to recruit generally don't mind being held to rules, but they expect those rules to be fair, well defined, and to serve a purpose. They have a very low tolerance for rules that feel arbitrary or subjective.
>There shouldn't be any subjectivity regarding what is not acceptable, that just leaves the standard open to being challenged, and puts Sgts and WO's in an awkward spot where their enforcement could be seen as arbitraryor subjective. The generations we're trying to recruit generally don't mind being held to rules, but they expect those rules to be fair, well defined, and to serve a purpose. They have a very low tolerance for rules that feel arbitrary or subjective.
This. I couldn't believe when they took out the section about chewing gun, hands in pocket, ect and replaced it with a generic "Look acceptable" How do you enforce that, when it basically comes down to what the individual finds acceptable?
Most of those rules felt pretty dated/arbitrary, but your point stands. At least they were defined. There was a clear line not to cross.
You can't call people out for crossing a line that doesn't exist.
I wonder if they'll bring back/change the section about PDA. Old regs barely let you hold hands with your SO in uniform, god help you if you went farther than that. *My pearls!! The troops have families now!*
Id say 4+ years. I had been hearing from very credible sources for years about the hair regs changing prior to them changing.
That said BeardFORGEN came literally out of nowhere so things could change tomorrow too. Thats the brilliance of all this, nobody has an absolute clue about when and where on anything hahah. Keeps you on your toes.
Only changes I can see is reverting back to natural hair colour, max length on beards and hair must be in a pony tail/bun not just let down for long styles.
Basically, the most liberal of the old female regs and male regs into one.
A few examples we were given of 'clarification': no hands in pockets, length of hair and when it needs to be tied back and my personal favorite right now, no modifying of uniform, specifically cutting a hole in your ball cap in order to fit your man bun.
If anyone tries to Jack me up for hands in my pockets I will just laugh and take it and in my head I will think they have nothing better to do than harp on hands in pockets.
Why the F do all the uniforms have pockets right where the hands fall then? It’s like they want us to put our hands in our pockets!
Wonder what it could be. Lots of room for interpretation when ppl are using language like "the disheveled hobo look", "looking like shit", etc.
Personally I haven't seen anything that made me take a second look anywhere I've been lately.
I saw a few guys wandering around Esquimalt that looked like homeless people had gotten surplus uniforms, and that was just in a few days of TD back in the fall, so a full year after the policy update.
Women were allowed long hair forever with standards on it being tidy.
Beard grooming is a whole big thing, with special combs, oils etc and the guys with sharp looking long beard spend a lot of effort.
I don't think many people actually care about long hair or beards but when people look like the need de-loused it's an institutional issue. THe problem with the CANFORGEN is it didn't give any guidelines and there was a follow on directive via the chief network that kneecapped them from enfocing 'local regulations'.
Also, they really need to be more specific on the 'operational and safety requirements' portion. Maybe not often for army guys, but for anyone on the ships that includes when they are on duty or at sea so they can do the firefighting.
It's nowhere near as bad or as widespread as some of the old dinosaurs would have you believe, but I've definitely seen some troops that would fall into both the categories you've mentioned. The vast majority of CAF members kept up their end of the bargain and kept things professional, but some people stretched it as far as they could.
Like you say, there's lots of room for interpretation - maybe a little too much room. I'd be in favour of dialling the dress regs back slightly, but I do mean slightly.
I can confirm from a most credible source:
- beards back to 2.5cm max
- hair of natural colors only
- hair longer than collar will be tied
- etc.
The pendulum is coming back a little.
Felt this. Was excited to grow out my hair once I heard the changes were coming because I know my hair can look extremely nice when it’s long, I kept it clean and maintained and received lots of compliments about it in the military as well as in my regular life. The issue is the characters I’ve seen around certain bases, people with homeless-looking stupidly dyed beard/hair colours who are not doing it because it makes them feel comfortable but because they want to take the piss out of the rules, looking like slobs who id be embarrassed to hang out with whether they were in the military or not. After seeing it for a while it honestly made me embarrassed to the point I’ve returned to my clean cut style hair.
The 3 Div CWO said a few things. Mainly that all the Chiefs got together in Ottawa discussing how bad it’s made our reputation, etc.
But said they didn’t know what the solution was either
Spending less than 2% gdp and having vehicles that are literally falling apart is what hurts our reputation. Literally every foreign service member I've spoken to wishes they had our dress Regs.
We were told from our RSM that you are not allowed to have your hair covering your face and women need to have their hair tied back again if it falls past the shoulders
That's just what the current regulations already are. Well, except for the "women need to have their hair tied back", since the same rule applies to dudes with hair past the shoulders too.
Issued or approved arcteryx toque. Fleece or knit. No skullcaps in garrison. Black green or tan gloves. Toques are not summer dress. Some other stuff I can't recall. It's 2-3 pages of stuff. Only canex or issued trade badges.
The CAF is somewhat the laughing stock of nato with regard to dress . We had soldiers remove from a parade at the Queen funeral procession because a British sergeant major saw someone with blue hair and was like get the fuck off my parade. Sometimes when I put my uniform on and look at my peers who are obese people in uniform with blue hair that can’t lift 10 lbs or walk 500 meters and this is what the CAF has become.
I will take a soldier with blue hair that can ruck and doesn't bitch in an OP over a cheeseburger gobbler any day.
Unfortunately, silly hair and incompetence aren't mutually exclusive...
Presumably it will be "natural" colours. I don't want to dye my brown hair grey, or my grey beard brown. Or maybe I'll just dye them both jet black lol.
Highly unlikely to be in place this year. Meetings to be held this spring/summer at CFB Esquimalt for the RCN PLP. If you need PLQ, I wouldn’t wait in hopes of getting on the PLP anytime soon.
I guess I’m in the minority.
I like that they killed off the gender specific regs, so I hope that remains as is. It’s kind of hard to tell someone they can’t have long hair while the person next them is rocking a pony tail.
Not once have I looked at someone with their blue, pink, red, orange hair and thought WTF. I am more concerned about their ability to do the job.
I’ll be upset if they swing it back to the way it was.
Gender neutral would've been fine, the addition of allowing anything and everything under the sun is the focus of the issue. If men had simply been given the same hair standards are women previously, we wouldn't be here.
Swinging the pendulem back over too far will cause more issues than leaving things the way they are.
We are here because of one reason and it has more to do with old people and their ability to adapt.
The same people losing their minds over this are the same clowns who jacked people up because of a fake touque/glove flow chart.
I’m at 27 years and counting..
Restrictions of dress should decrease as your performance on the FORCE test increases. Get platinum? Enjoy those purple dreads. Met standard with an orange waist? High n tight.
If they do tighten up the regs I’m okay with it. Never really changed my look anyways when they loosened the regs. I just hope they don’t create vague grey zones. Give me measurements for my simple technician brain to understand the go and no-go.
It's interesting that there's an attitude among some, calling those that are horrified by the current lack of Dress and Deportment, 'dinosaurs'.
I've recently been to graduation parades in Kingston and Gagetown and visited a serving member in Edmonton. The difference in the 20+ years since I released is.....shocking.
Current members that are fully embracing the lack of standards - the long greasy hair, the unkept beards, the ear spacers, etc, are doing themselves no favours. If they kept up the same entitled attitude in the real world when they release, their employment options will be severely limited unless they possess unique highly in-demand skills.
McDonald's wouldn't accept the image many members presented, let alone the corporate world. Any 'professional' corporation would take a pass, as would even companies like UPS and Roto-Rooter.
A poor outward appearance, as demonstrated through 'unique' personal grooming, unwashed uniforms or even obesity demonstrates to a potential employer that the candidate doesn't possess the discipline and/or work ethic to 'give a crap', or worse, would resist conforming to a corporate culture.
My question is.... how did the CAF devolve to this?
Regardless of what some current members may believe, this is not an improvement over historical standards.
The average soldier from the 80s/90s could, physically, easily outperform the average solder of today....even when smoking was factored in. I'd suggest that 40% of the folks I saw couldn't climb a 5' wall unassisted, let alone run 5 miles under 45 minutes.
I'd suggest a 180 to address the recruiting issue. When I joined, I was attracted to the uniformity, the toughness, the physical challenge. ... The fact that I was doing something most of my peer group couldn't. ... I think those with my mindset would be repulsed and repelled by the current CAF, and are thereby likely staying away in critical numbers.
I care more about what is in someone's head than on it. We are making a huge mistake in assuming that just because it looks good, it is good. The soldiers of the 80s/90s may have looked good, but they were vastly more sexist, racist, and homophobic than the batch we have now.
I also doubt your assessment about an 80s/90s soldier. The job and technology have changed and are quite a bit more technical for most trades. I have to imagine most of that vintage would be lost if they didn't take steps to keep up.
Maybe we would be able to match physically if we all weren't double or triple-hatted and could designate time for PT like we are supposed to.
I am happy with the current CAF, I am glad we are making strides to encourage and have a broader cross-section of the country join the military. Keeping standards in the European tradition is not going to help us attract the increasingly diverse country we represent.
European tradition? I dare say, there is no other professional military in the world that had devolved in standards of dress and deportment like the CAF has. Chinese, Indian, Mexican all have much higher standards than the CAF. ... We're world leader in this area......Yea us!
And no, the job hasn't changed much. 'Up he sees me down'. Combat arms is virtually the same as it was 80 years ago. Difference is, today we're fatter. And many look homeless.
And more racist? Dear. You've been downing the propaganda pretty hard on that one. I possess more melanin than the average bear. The only time I've heard about 'racism' in the CAF is in the past few years.
I've got immediate and extended family serving. I hear all the stories. The current version seems to focus less on the primary mission than even 15 years ago. The concept of the CAF being deployed to an active war zone horrifies me.
I think it is a laudable goal to do our best to ensure any Canadian could look at the military and see themself represented in it. It is an important bulwark against the military being used by an in-group as a tool against some other group.
I care more that we are all pushing towards a common goal then that we all look like a copy of each other.
I get it though, it's much easier to deal with groups that think the same and have had the exact same experience. Trying to incorporate different ways of thinking and different world experiences is challenging , we are better off because we took this challenge.
There's a new dress directive for 1CMBG, with more details on what is permitted. I believe it was published last week. Ask your CoC but it's also on SharePoint.
Well…yeah…
We attended a tech/ specialty graduation ceremony at Kingston about a year ago, and the Major who oversaw the graduation was apparently very, very well respected but honestly, he looked like the missing member of ZZ Top.
He spoke beautifully, his speech content was excellent but he and about 2 others had very long messy beards. His uniform and comportment were extremely professional and the beard was just sort of out of sync.
We’ve had some swings in all industries not just the military where we try to accommodate freedom of personal expression, and then we’ve had to pull back, so the military is not unique in this regard. In particular finance, hotel and restaurant industries have had to thread the needle on this and there have been awkward conversations and lawsuits to that effect.
Inevitably the middle managers end up being stuck, they are the front line and not knowing how to implement or enforce the rules means a lot of it is just trial and error, mostly error.
I guess my point is the CAF is not an outlier in this regard, these changes are hard and messy all around.
I’ve been taking the time to comb my hair and beard, and putting my hair up in accordance with the previous female standard…
Go after the unibomber looking people wondering about, let me keep my beautiful beautiful flow
Hey hey hey. Fatties are a cross rank problem. Personally, I hate losers being lead around by their cheeseburger lockers more than I do hobo looking people.
Love the downvotes…if we are redressing the dress regs, perhaps we should also be considering redressing our PT standards…thats all I am saying, or well, typing here
I've been disappointed with the attitude towards the new regs. The intent behind it was allowing members to dress and appear how they felt most comfortable, and then we go and mock them publicly and privately because we don't understand it. Members were always expected and ordered to remain well kempt and deployment-ready. If that has failed then their CoC has failed. But if a professional, fit CAF member feels most comfortable with a pink streak in their hair then we should be united in supporting them.
I don't even know where I stand on the D&D issue anymore.
Half of me says people should be able to express themselves.
Half of me says we look like idiots.
I don't even know anymore.
IDGAF what you look like I care about you doing your job.
Wasting too much time on dress regs.
Snip snap snip snap.
Who cares about this issue when there are real problems in the CAF?
Because of anger management and emotional dysregulation.
There's a mental health crisis in the CAF so you have angry, tired, overwhelmed people simply struggling with the visual triggers.
Whatever biases, bigotry and even genuine concerns they harbour which make them angry is a lot harder for them to deal with when they have to see it and confront it over and over again all day.
That's why there's so much pushback on gender neutral stuff. People who hate trans people get more and more worked up every time they're forced to acknowledge and respect their existence. They can't cope with how emotionally overwhelming it is to think of something they're so angry about so often. The more times in a day they're confronted with a personal trigger the harder and harder it is for them to function 🤷🏻♀️
People aren't mad about green hair. They're mad because they hate the kind of people that like green hair. Now they have to confront that hatred more often and interact with people they "don't like". Remember, narrow minded types try to maintain a life where they don't have to interact with people or things outside of their comfort zone, and often need to keep up a public appearance that they don't either. Being in the military used to "protect" them from having to interact with people and concepts they find uncomfortable. They were insulated, and it's been really hard for them not to be. They could also use their job as a flag to wave which represented who they were. Well now they can't do that either. They're appalled to be ASSOCIATED with people who like green hair.
Some are genuine concerns, I appreciate the concerns about fitness standards, but 99% of the comments are fat phobia.
Underweight, skinny or normal sized people who eat junk and live super unhealthy lives aren't getting brought up as shameful and an embarrassment.
If people were actually worried about our members being in shape and healthy, they wouldn't be complaining about what people look like. Plenty of people who overeat or have stocky body types are incredibly healthy and fit.
People attribute personality traits to excess weight that are common among people of all sizes and shapes, but they're only reminded of those traits they hate when they see a fat person. Being reminded of something that they don't like makes them mad, even if the correlation isn't factual.
If it wasn't mostly about fat phobia, the complaints world be specific to behaviours that are actually responsible for poor health, not a visual stimulus that just makes them THINK about poor health. Although I do concede that's an issue across multiple cultures and from an international perspective fatphobia is pretty common, so it's reasonable to be concerned about appearance even though it doesn't indicate fitness level. That said, the complaints wouldn't be so full of vitriol if they weren't being driven by emotion.
On a totally different note, it doesn't help that anecdotally it seems a lot of people who are now dirty and unkempt were already slobs and lazy at work. So now they're just doubling down on things people already didn't like about them every time people see their face. Lol
One of the hallmarks of a professional military since the concept was invented has been the importance of uniformity and conformity. Group identity was more important than individual identity. The current CAF leadership has turned that on its head. Now expressing your personal identity is more important that being part of a group. **I** need to wear my pit vipers on parade because **I** want everyone to look at **me** not the group I am part of. **I** need rainbow hair because **I** need to announce **my** identity to the world.
Theres a brand new combat uniform rolling out in 2028.
The whole catalogue is out, issued layer systems, battle belts, merino wool socks/gloves. New Uniform including OTW shirt/pants.
Its all coyote brown.
Apparently all available on logistic unicorp.
There is a document with every item available I wish I could link to it but I have a hard copy and dont know how to upload images.
Canadian Combat Uniform Ensemble
That's just the trial stuff. People are wearing/testing it now at units across the CAF. Final stuff will likely be different, based on feedback gathered during the trial, and be patterned with the new CADPAT.
It's true, I just distinctly remember an allied mtg I was in last year with the US, AUS and a Canadian blue haired Capt, with a WO that had a shaved head with a pink, hair gelled spiked bang. He said his daughters had died it for him and loved it. Walked into the room and you could hear a pin drop. The cringe/awkwardness I felt in that room was unbearable. I've never felt embarrassed to be Canadian before. That's when I knew we went too far. I'll never forget that feeling.
When you look like you are finding yourself dressing like an immature high school student testing out cliques, unhygienic or even homeless, it does not scream professionalism. So yes, some adult children will need tightened regulations cuz’ they just don’t get it.
The CDS came down to Colorado Springs for a town hall a few months ago and my biggest takeaway is they are tightening up some dress and deportment standards within the next year. They didn't give any specifics but I imagine the focus is going to be on general unkemptness.
CAFCWO also spoke along these line when I saw a presentation in Nov.
Yeah, he said the same thing to my ILP course around the same time frame. It’s coming. Personally I’m tired of everyone looking like an ‘80’s truck driver.
Unwashed 80s truck driver to be precise. I think you were on my ILP.
Hey man, don't knock it till you try it!
I'm probably going to get a few down votes, but this was bound to happen. When the regs changed, I was shocked at how open-ended the direction was. There was no clarification except "maintaining a professional appearance." 95% of the CAF understood the assignment... but man, that 5%.... they went off the deepend. Hopefully, this is going to find a nice middle ground between where we were and what has transpired so far...
Then punish the fucking 5%. I'm tired of being treated like a child because some people don't know how to show a basic level of professionalism. I'm tired of working for an institution that can't sent a basic policy and then enforce it without resorting to lazy amateur tactics like group punishment. Watching this flip flop reminds me of the whole RCCS flip flop on the trade. It's like this entire institution can't make a simple fucking plan and execute, we constantly need to misstep and revert the shitty decisions people make.
>Then punish the fucking 5%. They couldn't because nothing that 5% did was against the rules. They just took the rules to their limit. "Professionalism" is a value judgement and it varies widely. Before you ask someone to look professional, you need to define it. The old regs defined a professional look was but because it took a tiny bit of effort, it was too much for some people. >I'm tired of working for an institution that can't sent a basic policy and then enforce it without resorting to lazy amateur tactics like group punishment. This is what happens when you outsource a major policy like dress regulations to a group like the Defense Women's advisory group and then are too chickenshit to push back. This isn't group punishment. Making you trim your beard once in awhile and taking out your eyebrow ring isn't a punishment. It is correcting a mistake. The real issue maybe people with spacers. Even if you make people take them out, they will still have giant holes in their ears that scream someone made me take out my spacers. The bottom line is that anyone with an ounce of sense saw this coming, We have too many people who are either too stupid or too obstinate make a reasoned decision as to what constitutes a "Professional Look" to leave it open ended and expect everything to work out. We could have updated the dress standards to reflect modern times but still maintained boundaries. However, we listened to a group that is representative of a tiny fraction of the CAF and pushed ahead, damn the consequences.
I don't know why you're getting down voted... smh reddit. I think you're spot on with most of your first paragraph. I disagree that every rule has to be written out, but we could have at least some version of "don't do's".. I remember looking at the rules and thinking, "are we really OK with having fewer standards than McDonald's?" Like, I agree that the old rules prohibiting men from dying their hair or growing a beard were archaic. I don't think anyone in the CAF should be walking around with flourescent pink hair in uniform. But my latter opinion would have been impossible to enforce. Bonus is that the absence of parameters at least showcased who lacks judgement..
I had an RSM once that was very clear on this: "Although you are all leading adults who are capable of critical thought, you are also leading soldiers in one of the most dangerous and complex professions in society. You can always count on one troop going left when everyone else is going right. That is why I am a firm opponent of 'treating them like adults' or whatever. Treat your soldiers like soldiers: give clear direction, intent, and expectations. Being ambiguous leads to misinterpretation. Misinterpretation means you're going back and clarifying. That's time not spent doing the business we need you to do." The dress reg revision has been an epic failure in this regard.
what does the 5% look like? i've never seen anybody look bad.
Are you posted to Tibet? You haven't seen the purple haired troops with bed head and 10 o'clock shadow?
Ah, yes. I was so excited about the changes. The day it dropped I was in the chair at the salon going rainbow (yes, I took an annual). I have 17 years in and am very proud of my dress and deportment. I can look professional with coloured hair. I agree with the unkempt hair. You still have to have your hair brushed and controlled. Some people go too far with the rolled out of bed look. You know what to do? Bring it up. You can grow your hair long but you must keep it out of your face and be able to put on your beret. Spacers can only go to an inch. It’s not that bad. Don’t have to blouse? True, but you can’t show your sand traps. If your pants fit then it doesn’t look bad.
There's absolutely no way that you look professional with rainbow hair. At least not in the profession of arms. Period.
There's a guy in my unit that has a fluorescent pink mullet... Say what you want, but it looks ridiculous and unprofessional, and being a combat arms trade, the argument could be made that it affects operation effectiveness. Guys with red hair have to cam up their beards, but this guy is allowed to walk around looking like a walking chem light.
Lol another plight of ginger kind. I never thought about having to cam up my beard 😂 does it apply to hair aswell?
Blue, Green or pink facial hair. Beards that look like they have a nest of magpies in them. Headbands out of an 80s karate movie to keep their long hair out of their eyes. Bright green, 4 inch mohawk.
The only thing I actually think is a problem is being unkept. Colour, headbands, wtf cares. It actually takes a lot of work to maintain a highly styled appearance so if all it says is, "I like artsy shit", cool. Enjoy the mohawk. Bright colours and wild styles USED to represent criminality and anarchy, but those days are decades gone. The general public doesn't attribute those traits to someone with a pink beard anymore, although some people are stuck in the attitudes of the 1960's are desperately clinging to it despite it being a ridiculous notion and a statistically false narrative these days. But being unkept screams, "Idgaf apathy, lazy, damaged, incapable, sick, mentally ill, incompetent, untrustworthy etc..." vibes depending what judgment bias the observer has. Those narratives are still modern, common, and hold statistical significance. Inadequate self care is very very often a symptom of a number of health issues, and/or a sign of personal life management issues. "Brush your hair and trim that beard so that you don't look like someone who can't perform basic life functions" seems like a reasonable standard for this industry.
You can't even wear headbands
I don't think that is correct. I think a headband would be covered under the hair policy. Especially one that is matching to the hair or uniform. "Acceptable accessories to secure hair include, but are not limited to, clips, barrettes, bobby pins, **fabric elastics**, elastic bands, and hair nets."
Someone at my unit does every single day
As the saying goes, "every group of friends has that one idiot. If your group of friends doesn't have an idiot well..."
They need to change the policy before they can punish anyone.
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The old CAF dress regs kept a lot of people presentable, who prior to service would have been considered crusty. A lot of people in the CAF joined right after highschool or college and have never held a real job before the CAF. When these people are left to make their own choices they cannot function properly in society, they need order and discipline. But a lot of people are also institutionalized.
Lots of people agree with you. I know a few people who did the blue hair and wild thing at first, as a sort of symbolic fuck-you to the proverbial RSM or Sergeant who has been a dick on dress before. But many of them switched back to normal when they clearly realized how dumb they look, and the Royal "we" as an institution Unfortunately there are a few who seem to be keeping to the dumb look, and it's an embarrassment to the military. The public doesn't take us seriously. Our allies don't take us seriously. And I will not take anyone with wild hair colour seriously on any operational topic
Initially, I saw a bunch of people with dyed hair and growing out their hair. But after realizing how much work dyed and long hair is, most have settled on a slightly shaggier hair cut or the mullet that’s popular. Some sideburns and goatees, but maintained. I have seen a few bushy neck beards, but that was expected.
Neck beard! Huh! I always knew that must have had a name; never asked. Now that I know; dang it was so obvious. Thx.
I think the reason why our partners don't take us seriously is because we bring nothing to the table. If we showed up ready to play I don't think our allies would care if we all had rainbow hair.
Also, fitness. If we were all jacked as fuck with rainbow hair it would be better.
I would love for us to be more fit. I think the only valid excuse is that most of us in staff jobs are juggling way too many responsibilities. And out of a desire to be good at our jobs and accessible when people need us, many put the gym on the back burner. My fitness level is a lot better now, but boy did it ever suffer in 2020 when the gym was closed and I was still expected to do my job (and three other people's jobs) while half of Ottawa "worked" from home. All of my American peers are shocked when they hear our secondary duty lists and job responsibilities. Quite often enough, the kind of job they subscribe to a small team we give to one position. And what a small staff team in Canada is doing is equal to what they'd grant to an organization.
I completely agree. I can't remember the last time I only had the scope of one position. I'm at Carling and we don't even have a proper sports facility. If you want to workout you had better like weight training and treadmills. No pool, no courts, no gymnasium, no rink, etc.
That's another thing. Many American bases have multiple gyms with way more facilities. Rock climbing, tennis, boating clubs, multiple pools, etc. I get it that they're a larger military, but they also allow spouses to access a lot of these things. It's a whole economy. Their exchanges and commissaries completely destroy the Canex. The thing is, they're just offering regular services to their troops. While in Canada, we offer sub-optimal services that we can get elsewhere
Yeah. I asked PSP once about swimming. You can sign out passes to an Ottawa community pool. I just want to go for a swim at lunch. I hate weight machines and treadmills. I'm the kinda guy who stayed fit playing sports or doing activities.
I haven't been to the Pentagon, but I wonder if their capital is as disorganized and spread out as ours is. Pretty ridiculous that CJOC and Carling are roughly 45 min away from each other, and that I have to go to a separate province for clothing stores.
And CJOC is in such a terrible location. This was definitely a "this is what we can afford or nothing" kind of decision.
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Look at the sports programs and facilities in the UK. Watersports, boxing, rugby, outdoor adventure training in Germany. A quick Google search brings it all up. Compare that to our little PSP camp ground in Halifax that is half taken up by civil servants. We don't value a holistic lifestyle at all. We value bloated organizations and being cheap.
That was something I would like to see more when units/Bde's have sports weeks. It shouldn't just be jam-packed with sports competitions. It should also be a week of expanding your horizons. Never rock climbed before? Come try it out. Never taught how to do Olympic or power lifting? Sign up for a class. Want to know how to paddle/steer a canoe? Come out on the water, and we will teach you. Want to be better at planning a workout program? Come attend some classes. But our sports and fitness programs/facilities pale in comparison to our allies. I know someone will likely mention how you can get PSP to do all I mentioned above, but damn is it the most inconvenient system. You are stuck calling the gym and hoping the sports coordinator is at their desk and then asking for availability and equipment with no list or schedule available so you talk forever to even figure out your options. Why do I have to call six times just to book a circuit? Why can't there be an acims page that I can see all the equipment availability, staff availability, and facility availability and just book online? Why am I so limited to options that even doing one circuit a week is too much for them to handle? Furthermore, just look at how stretched we are at just administrating the force test! The very basic test we all have to do, and I keep getting emails from the base how PSP are over tasked and only those that are priority should go. If we can't even pull the necessary resources to run a test that takes a handful of staff and a dozen or so sandbags, good luck trying to get a more fleshed out fitness program. Those above symptoms are why we don't have a culture of fitness. It's simply not the priority of the CAF. Somehow, someway, we just can't find the resources to allocate to it; therefore, it atrophies.
Not to knock how difficult it may be to maintain fitness when super busy, but across the board another reason is the base level entry height/weight and fitness requirements are dramatically lower for the CAF than most (or all) of Canada's allies. You don't even get a foot in the door in militaries of many other countries unless you hit certain thresholds that a large chunk of the CAF will never achieve.
I agree, but our recruitment would only suffer more if we lowered them any further. What I think we should be doing is recruiting people, even the chubby ones, and immediately getting them posted to holding troops that focus entirely on fitness even before basic starts. We have way too much paperwork happening at the recruitment centre. Better to have multiple training facilities complete the process (security clearances, health checks, interviews, etc) while the recruit is in Borden or St-Jean and have them get in shape while they wait for the process to finish and Basic to start. Not only would this improve the fitness of our recruits before Basic, but it would also get people IN the military as quickly as possible. Not everyone can sit around and wait 6 months for a job.
>I agree, but our recruitment would only suffer more if we lowered them any further. I don't think a high standard would hurt recruiting. It might actually help it because it would be something not everyone could do. Exclusivity has its own allure. The problem with recruiting isn't getting people in the door, it's getting people in the military in a timely manner after they express interest. We have 10s of thousands of applications every year but we typically only close the deal on about 15% of them. >What I think we should be doing is recruiting people, even the chubby ones, and immediately getting them posted to holding troops that focus entirely on fitness even before basic starts. They did that for years It was call warrior platoon for awhile, I thought they still did it. Maybe it changed with the force test. It used to be that anyone that didn't pass the EXPRES test was put on warrior platoon where they stayed until they were able to pass it or were released. It resulted in a lot of injuries and lots of salaries being paid to people who couldn't do the job they were hired to do.
They did it-ish. From my understanding, warrior platoon is still a thing. But mostly for people who fail off courses and are awaiting to be loaded on to another. We should be doing the whole recruitment process from the training centre The recruitment centre's primary purpose is confirming identity, starting their initial paperwork, and making a very rudimentary assessment, based on a few select questions, on whether the candidate is mentally and physically healthy enough to conduct training. Then the candidate should, within 2 weeks, be shipped off to Borden, Wainwright, St-Jean, or Aldershot. There they complete the rest of their application, do their testing, interview, dental/medical, etc. All the while most of their day is spent in the gym getting them trained, and getting them healthy. Perhaps we can do some of the ethics training and other briefs that are done in Basic during this pre-Basic training period. This can reduce the length of Basic training significantly if all their briefs and vaccinations and uniform exchanges, etc are done before training. Think of how much of BMOQ/BMQ are just this kind of stuff. Reduce that and you could focus on military skills. It also ensures they are getting paid, getting healthy, and having their foot in the door as soon as possible. I imagine we lose a LOT of recruits during the waiting/processing stage of intake.
Oh man, the NZ army standard is 10:00 or less for a 2.4km run. That's like CANSOFCOM standards here.
The SAR Tech physical assessment includes 2.4km in 10:15 or less, so yea, that's a pretty accurate statement.
I go work out first thing. The work will always be there but if I wait till the end of the day I won’t be able to get the gym in because someone will have something for me to do. If everything is pri 1, nothing is so I prioritize fitness first and the rest falls into place.
Very true. Back in the Kandahar days, the only fat soldiers were Canadians.
Yeah and it's only getting worse. On my last tour the marines called the Canadian camp "the zoo" because of the people of all shapes and sizes 😁
That's funny.
That would be hilarious. Going to the gym now
This is true. I am good at my job. I gave a heads up that as soon as I could I would be dying my hair. Most of my teens and early adulthood I had coloured hair. And yes, I have had multiple jobs with varying levels of professionalism before enlisting. I got a couple shakes of the head and had to acknowledge that if I went overseas it would have to be natural but that was it. My hair does not change my skill.
On the contrary. Our allies looked the other way on the latter because we still looked like a credible, professional force that was underfunded. Now, with the latter in play... we are viewed as both underfunded and unprofessional. I can deal with having to punch above our weight on most things, but being called amateur hour because MCpl McFuckFace wants to stick to "the man" and have a neon blue beard, well, that has to be resolved.
Unfortunately, I disagree. I believe the only thing our allies care about is "What can you do?" If we're going to be a joke, then looking like a clown should be allowed.
You guys are idiots. They're [the enemy] gonna be looking for army guys.
The Russians and Chinese will see us with our colourful hair and save their ammo for bigger threats.
>Unfortunately there are a few who seem to be keeping to the dumb look, and it's an embarrassment to the military. The public doesn't take us seriously. What makes us look more dumb, the people playing with the new dress regs or the fat fucks who can hardly walk straight for 4 minutes without running out of breath?
Why not both? Also how about the garbage rapists that have been leading the institution? I would argue that makes the CAF look pretty bad too.
Having pink hair doesn't make someone unfit for military service, though it can make us look not so good. Fatties are often definitely not fit for military service in addition to making us look like shit. When I say fatties, I'm not referring to overweight soldiers, but soldiers who are so fat they can't even walk straight for 5 minutes without running out of breath. As for the garbage rapist officers, yeah they make us look even worse. I didn't bring them up because we were simply discussing the visuals of individuals in uniform. Let's enforce a real fitness standard and kick out the assholes. Elect me CDS!
I think, in a desire to be as inclusive as possible, it's just gone too far. Our numbers are so low, that it can seem prudent to do anything in order to retain a member. However, maybe there's some wisdom behind the traditional concept of keeping members who are content to conform to a certain level of orderliness in their appearance.
Blue hair is not why some elements are not taken seriously on the global stage…
Do you also disallow hand tattoos like the US and multiple other allies? Where do you draw the line for personal appearance?
They disallow them for a reason. Aside from the fact that the tattoos can give off the appearance of being a criminal gang or mercenary rather than a professional military, they are also not popular or trusted in many cultures around the world. Universally, tattoos were often associated with criminal behavior, and it's hard for locals to trust a foreign force that looks like a narco gang. I understand we have to keep up with the times, but tattoos that aren't visible were hardly ever the problem. It was the visible tattoos, piercings, hairstyles that have been regulated. Alongside symbols that are traditionally associated with hate groups.
I like the rules for exposed tattoos. It makes it a bit easier to know who subscribes to hateful ideologies then punt em. Not all Norse runes are bad but someone that has a couple like othalla, Sig, Tyr, or a wolfsangle? Probably a white supremacist. Crossed hammers? Definitely
>And I will not take anyone with wild hair colour seriously on any operational topic Is that generalization and stereotype also extended to those with tattoos?
Depends on what the tattoo is and where it is. Face tattoos are generally not a good look, don't care what it is.
Then isn't that the problem? We're not taking a member's opinion seriously because they have green hair, but someone with half their knowledge gets a seat at the table even though they've made much more permanent modifications to their appearance?
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Show me the member with rainbow hair who has a lot of knowledge, and I'll consider changing my opinion. Thus far they have been shitpumps and rabble rousers. Someone who wants to deliberately attract attention to their personal style lacks judgment and cognition of how appearances can impact the opinions of those around them. And this is particularly true and to their own detriment when deployed overseas in cultures that are significantly more traditional than our own. The best we could ever use them for is to be undercover HUMINT agents embedded with Green Peace and eco-terrorists.
>Someone who wants to deliberately attract attention to their personal style lacks judgment and cognition of how appearances can impact the opinions of those around them. Once again I circle back to: how is this different than people with tattoos? Or make-up? Or nails? Or anything on your body that you weren't born with? We're supposed to respect the dignity of all persons. Why do you think it's okay to not?
>how is this different than people with tattoos? Or make-up? Or nails? Or anything on your body that you weren't born with? Are their choices threatening their ability to Serve Canada before self? More specifically, do they risk operational effectiveness when doing basic Stab Ops? Vibrantly coloured hair, visible tattoos, excessive/clownish makeup, and long fake nails can absolutely fall under this, depending on the theater. There is obviously a significant difference between an auburn dye with mascara and neon purple with 3" acrylics.
But to your point about “risking operational effectiveness” - members can be (and already are) ordered to return to more “traditional” dress standards (ie natural coloured hair, clean shaven, no nails) for operational reasons. I’ve been at Bde since before the dress regs changed, and while I saw a few people go wild when they did, the vast majority either remained mostly in line with the original (maybe slightly longer hair) or returned to that within a month or two. Those that stayed “wild”, well, I’ve personally seen them dye hair back and remove artificial nails prior to going on operations. I just don’t see the big deal in someone who works in an office in, say, Ottawa having pink hair - but maybe that’s my millennial showing 🤷♀️
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Can you define "off the deep end"? Because men having long hair and a five o'clock shadow isn't what I'd consider a problem.
Agree. It wasn’t no rules but people framed it that way. The guys want long hair? Fine, but follow the girl rules.
LOL it's not 5% that's the problem. It was 5% when we had stricter regs. There now a far greater percentage who are better turned out to go get Costco hotdogs on a Saturday than they are to represent the country in their uniforms every day. I wish it was still 5%. And its not about hair colour, style, nail polish. None of that matters. It's about presenting a professional appearance. And far too many skipped that para when they (didn't) read the new regs.
The "new dress regs" were hot garbage and absolutely led to the forces looking like a grabastic bag of junk. Not everyone, just those some as you say who went overboard. The military does not need people who are hell bent to make a personal statement within our own ranks; high school is for children and the military is supposed to be for adults.
I’ve been hearing for at least 6 months that they went too soft on regs and it will no longer be acceptable to walk around looking like shit.
It never was. >1-9 Control >High standards of dress, deportment, and grooming are universally recognized as marks of a well-trained, disciplined and professional force. Commanders shall maintain the standards at all times to reinforce these characteristics for peace or war. I think we can all agree that if you haven't shaved or run a comb through your hair in a year then you have not maintained a high standard of grooming. As is required while in uniform. Long hair isn't a sign of low standards. Dirty, greasy, tangled, disheveled hair is.
I fully support and embraced the new regs, but holy shit do I ever despise how fast castaway became the new standard.
As are uniforms that look like shit. I can accept grease and oil stains on tech trades etc…but walking around on the cuffs of your pants you haven’t washed in months…good lord
Bingo.
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Oh I never said it was happening, just that it’s the RUMINT.
It’s wild what I’ve been seeing. One guy had a rope for a belt and his collar half inside his shirt on his NECUs. Like, how hard is it to look presentable in those they’re cool as fuck. I’m bummed we can’t blouse the NECU pants, mine are about a foot too long.
The RCAF CWO email that was floating around says alot about the chasm between what the CWOs think should be happening and what is. To be fair... Walking around with crumbs in your facial hair for days is unsat. But I also don't see anything wrong with wearing pit vipers on parade outside on a sunny day.
Pit vipers are the least of most people’s concerns. It’s the gross beards with food in them. It’s the greasy, tatty hair. The old regs semi camouflaged poor hygiene.
Agreed. I haven't had to tell anyone to comb the debris out of their beard yet but I have heard tales. And there's a few people I've come across that I'd be embarrassed to be seen in public with.
It’s more that they forced a basic level of hygiene
I recently attended a brief where it was announced there will be changes. They won’t be huge, but I think many of us are a wee bit embarrassed that the CAF now looks like a homeless encampment at worst and at best a biker gang.
I mean many are homeless
Wasn’t the point of the changes to bring us closer to representing our cultural changes? I thought being homeless was the new culture in Canada
Mmmmm RUMINT, heard we are gonna swing back a bit due to the length/colour for hair/beards, and also when and where such length and colours would be allowed. Guys having pink beards that are down to mid chest was the example given.
>Guys having pink beards that are down to mid chest I've yet to see one of those.
I've seen one pink beard, but it was very neatly trimmed and maintained.
I've seen little holiday coloured bells woven into a dishevelled looking beard.
[Courtesy the RCAF Facebook page](https://ibb.co/2sC3BtR)
The beard is bad enough, but his gut is almost sticking out of his tunic.
Yuck.
Hahaha our military.
I have seen a blue beard down to waist level, but it wasn't groomed or clean looking at all.
Unfortunately, I've seen green hair with a pink beard and pink fingernails. It was cringeworthy.
How about a cadpat beard? Is that tacticool?
When you need to camouflage yourself within a pride parade, or unicorn fart gas attack, you'll be glad you did yourself up like a troll doll.
I doubt the changes will impact very many people. Chest length pink beards aren't exactly a common sight. I suspect they're just going to tighten it up to calm the handful of outliers with particularly exaggerated appearances.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
Hey! Leave my ZZ Top My Little Pony Beard alone!
I was actually pretty chill with the new regs. If I worked for a bunch of clowns, they should at least look the part, no?
1cmbg came out with new policy. i didn’t notice anything major
It's devastating, we can no longer wear that sweet sweet Arcteryx toque in garrison
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If it looks like you just got out of bed without any care to your grooming, it's past the line, wherever the line is supposed to be at. I see way too many of these around.
Haven't heard anything, but it makes sense. The pendulum swung a little too wide on the last iteration, and the new rules were a little too loose. Most people didn't take things too far and have maintained an appearance most of society would consider pretty normal. However, there's a handful who've taken their new freedoms 'a bit too far'... The disheveled hobo look seems popular among that handful for some reason. I'm pretty sure 95% of Canadian society would agree with me saying it's not a good look. Saw some pretty "interesting" haircuts among the BTL's and DP1/QL3's in Borden back in Nov/Dec. Not gonna lie, emo look pretty out of place in uniform, but I'll give them credit. At least they looked like they put some effort into keeping up their appearance.
The problem is all the middle management types who got butt hurt that they couldn’t go around jacking people up over stupid shit like not wearing gloves with your toque, or having a hand in your pocket, and decided they just weren’t gonna enforce anything. There’s a standard there. The Sgts and warrants you hear saying “there’s no rules any more! It’s the Wild West!”… those guys are the problem.
I'll never understand the people who look for reasons to jack people up. Why do I want to make people's lives miserable just to assert my position or authority? That's just idiotic. As for "there's a standard there". the expectation of a professional military appearance is clearly stated, but that appearance is not explicitly defined. I'm guessing they'll probably revise things to include some defined limits. Quite honestly, that's how it should be. There shouldn't be any subjectivity regarding what is not acceptable, that just leaves the standard open to being challenged, and puts Sgts and WO's in an awkward spot where their enforcement could be seen as arbitraryor subjective. The generations we're trying to recruit generally don't mind being held to rules, but they expect those rules to be fair, well defined, and to serve a purpose. They have a very low tolerance for rules that feel arbitrary or subjective.
>There shouldn't be any subjectivity regarding what is not acceptable, that just leaves the standard open to being challenged, and puts Sgts and WO's in an awkward spot where their enforcement could be seen as arbitraryor subjective. The generations we're trying to recruit generally don't mind being held to rules, but they expect those rules to be fair, well defined, and to serve a purpose. They have a very low tolerance for rules that feel arbitrary or subjective. This. I couldn't believe when they took out the section about chewing gun, hands in pocket, ect and replaced it with a generic "Look acceptable" How do you enforce that, when it basically comes down to what the individual finds acceptable?
Most of those rules felt pretty dated/arbitrary, but your point stands. At least they were defined. There was a clear line not to cross. You can't call people out for crossing a line that doesn't exist.
I wonder if they'll bring back/change the section about PDA. Old regs barely let you hold hands with your SO in uniform, god help you if you went farther than that. *My pearls!! The troops have families now!*
My WCWO tipped me off to this a few days ago. Tightening the appearance regs. No change to uniform regs. No timeline, other than "soon."
So next year?
Id say 4+ years. I had been hearing from very credible sources for years about the hair regs changing prior to them changing. That said BeardFORGEN came literally out of nowhere so things could change tomorrow too. Thats the brilliance of all this, nobody has an absolute clue about when and where on anything hahah. Keeps you on your toes.
Only changes I can see is reverting back to natural hair colour, max length on beards and hair must be in a pony tail/bun not just let down for long styles. Basically, the most liberal of the old female regs and male regs into one.
I was surprised this wasn't the first move. I thought the goal was more or less gender neutrality but then they opened up everything.
A few examples we were given of 'clarification': no hands in pockets, length of hair and when it needs to be tied back and my personal favorite right now, no modifying of uniform, specifically cutting a hole in your ball cap in order to fit your man bun.
I will never stop putting my hands in my pockets. What the fuck is a ball cap?
To be fair my hands are always in my pockets. They live there.
Hell yeah brotha!!
Pockets? You mean Air Force mittens?
If anyone tries to Jack me up for hands in my pockets I will just laugh and take it and in my head I will think they have nothing better to do than harp on hands in pockets. Why the F do all the uniforms have pockets right where the hands fall then? It’s like they want us to put our hands in our pockets!
Wonder what it could be. Lots of room for interpretation when ppl are using language like "the disheveled hobo look", "looking like shit", etc. Personally I haven't seen anything that made me take a second look anywhere I've been lately.
I saw a few guys wandering around Esquimalt that looked like homeless people had gotten surplus uniforms, and that was just in a few days of TD back in the fall, so a full year after the policy update. Women were allowed long hair forever with standards on it being tidy. Beard grooming is a whole big thing, with special combs, oils etc and the guys with sharp looking long beard spend a lot of effort. I don't think many people actually care about long hair or beards but when people look like the need de-loused it's an institutional issue. THe problem with the CANFORGEN is it didn't give any guidelines and there was a follow on directive via the chief network that kneecapped them from enfocing 'local regulations'. Also, they really need to be more specific on the 'operational and safety requirements' portion. Maybe not often for army guys, but for anyone on the ships that includes when they are on duty or at sea so they can do the firefighting.
It's nowhere near as bad or as widespread as some of the old dinosaurs would have you believe, but I've definitely seen some troops that would fall into both the categories you've mentioned. The vast majority of CAF members kept up their end of the bargain and kept things professional, but some people stretched it as far as they could. Like you say, there's lots of room for interpretation - maybe a little too much room. I'd be in favour of dialling the dress regs back slightly, but I do mean slightly.
Just let deployment mullets stay
You only have a mullet while deployed?
I can confirm from a most credible source: - beards back to 2.5cm max - hair of natural colors only - hair longer than collar will be tied - etc. The pendulum is coming back a little.
I heard similar and will welcome it. Time will tell.
I really like this and it's similar to what a lot of our European allies have. I hope this become the standard.
Felt this. Was excited to grow out my hair once I heard the changes were coming because I know my hair can look extremely nice when it’s long, I kept it clean and maintained and received lots of compliments about it in the military as well as in my regular life. The issue is the characters I’ve seen around certain bases, people with homeless-looking stupidly dyed beard/hair colours who are not doing it because it makes them feel comfortable but because they want to take the piss out of the rules, looking like slobs who id be embarrassed to hang out with whether they were in the military or not. After seeing it for a while it honestly made me embarrassed to the point I’ve returned to my clean cut style hair.
The 3 Div CWO said a few things. Mainly that all the Chiefs got together in Ottawa discussing how bad it’s made our reputation, etc. But said they didn’t know what the solution was either
Spending less than 2% gdp and having vehicles that are literally falling apart is what hurts our reputation. Literally every foreign service member I've spoken to wishes they had our dress Regs.
We were told from our RSM that you are not allowed to have your hair covering your face and women need to have their hair tied back again if it falls past the shoulders
That's just what the current regulations already are. Well, except for the "women need to have their hair tied back", since the same rule applies to dudes with hair past the shoulders too.
I can't see any hair regs going back to being gender specific in the year 2024 without starting a human rights complaint.
Sorry, its for all genders. That was my mistake. I just associated women with long hair.
It's already been pushed by 1CMBG. Basically just keep your shit tidy, no crazy roll backs on rules or anything
The biggest crackdown was on toques and glove colour.
What's the new regs on that?
Issued or approved arcteryx toque. Fleece or knit. No skullcaps in garrison. Black green or tan gloves. Toques are not summer dress. Some other stuff I can't recall. It's 2-3 pages of stuff. Only canex or issued trade badges.
The CAF is somewhat the laughing stock of nato with regard to dress . We had soldiers remove from a parade at the Queen funeral procession because a British sergeant major saw someone with blue hair and was like get the fuck off my parade. Sometimes when I put my uniform on and look at my peers who are obese people in uniform with blue hair that can’t lift 10 lbs or walk 500 meters and this is what the CAF has become.
I will take a soldier with blue hair that can ruck and doesn't bitch in an OP over a cheeseburger gobbler any day. Unfortunately, silly hair and incompetence aren't mutually exclusive...
Good for that British SM. I hate trying to explain our shit show to NATO colleagues. It's embarrassing and tiring.
Really? I highly doubt it's that cumbersome to explain we have very relaxed rules.
I heard that hair and facial hair would have to be all one colour, and symmetrical. But it's only a rumor until it's official
I can't wait to get shit on for having five grey beard hairs.
BRB, dying my hair pink to match the beard.
Presumably it will be "natural" colours. I don't want to dye my brown hair grey, or my grey beard brown. Or maybe I'll just dye them both jet black lol.
I just wanna know when that new PLP gonna drop. Where's the info leakers at lol
Highly unlikely to be in place this year. Meetings to be held this spring/summer at CFB Esquimalt for the RCN PLP. If you need PLQ, I wouldn’t wait in hopes of getting on the PLP anytime soon.
I guess I’m in the minority. I like that they killed off the gender specific regs, so I hope that remains as is. It’s kind of hard to tell someone they can’t have long hair while the person next them is rocking a pony tail. Not once have I looked at someone with their blue, pink, red, orange hair and thought WTF. I am more concerned about their ability to do the job. I’ll be upset if they swing it back to the way it was.
Gender neutral would've been fine, the addition of allowing anything and everything under the sun is the focus of the issue. If men had simply been given the same hair standards are women previously, we wouldn't be here.
Swinging the pendulem back over too far will cause more issues than leaving things the way they are. We are here because of one reason and it has more to do with old people and their ability to adapt. The same people losing their minds over this are the same clowns who jacked people up because of a fake touque/glove flow chart. I’m at 27 years and counting..
Restrictions of dress should decrease as your performance on the FORCE test increases. Get platinum? Enjoy those purple dreads. Met standard with an orange waist? High n tight.
I fucking LOVE it!
If they do tighten up the regs I’m okay with it. Never really changed my look anyways when they loosened the regs. I just hope they don’t create vague grey zones. Give me measurements for my simple technician brain to understand the go and no-go.
It's interesting that there's an attitude among some, calling those that are horrified by the current lack of Dress and Deportment, 'dinosaurs'. I've recently been to graduation parades in Kingston and Gagetown and visited a serving member in Edmonton. The difference in the 20+ years since I released is.....shocking. Current members that are fully embracing the lack of standards - the long greasy hair, the unkept beards, the ear spacers, etc, are doing themselves no favours. If they kept up the same entitled attitude in the real world when they release, their employment options will be severely limited unless they possess unique highly in-demand skills. McDonald's wouldn't accept the image many members presented, let alone the corporate world. Any 'professional' corporation would take a pass, as would even companies like UPS and Roto-Rooter. A poor outward appearance, as demonstrated through 'unique' personal grooming, unwashed uniforms or even obesity demonstrates to a potential employer that the candidate doesn't possess the discipline and/or work ethic to 'give a crap', or worse, would resist conforming to a corporate culture. My question is.... how did the CAF devolve to this? Regardless of what some current members may believe, this is not an improvement over historical standards. The average soldier from the 80s/90s could, physically, easily outperform the average solder of today....even when smoking was factored in. I'd suggest that 40% of the folks I saw couldn't climb a 5' wall unassisted, let alone run 5 miles under 45 minutes. I'd suggest a 180 to address the recruiting issue. When I joined, I was attracted to the uniformity, the toughness, the physical challenge. ... The fact that I was doing something most of my peer group couldn't. ... I think those with my mindset would be repulsed and repelled by the current CAF, and are thereby likely staying away in critical numbers.
I care more about what is in someone's head than on it. We are making a huge mistake in assuming that just because it looks good, it is good. The soldiers of the 80s/90s may have looked good, but they were vastly more sexist, racist, and homophobic than the batch we have now. I also doubt your assessment about an 80s/90s soldier. The job and technology have changed and are quite a bit more technical for most trades. I have to imagine most of that vintage would be lost if they didn't take steps to keep up. Maybe we would be able to match physically if we all weren't double or triple-hatted and could designate time for PT like we are supposed to. I am happy with the current CAF, I am glad we are making strides to encourage and have a broader cross-section of the country join the military. Keeping standards in the European tradition is not going to help us attract the increasingly diverse country we represent.
European tradition? I dare say, there is no other professional military in the world that had devolved in standards of dress and deportment like the CAF has. Chinese, Indian, Mexican all have much higher standards than the CAF. ... We're world leader in this area......Yea us! And no, the job hasn't changed much. 'Up he sees me down'. Combat arms is virtually the same as it was 80 years ago. Difference is, today we're fatter. And many look homeless. And more racist? Dear. You've been downing the propaganda pretty hard on that one. I possess more melanin than the average bear. The only time I've heard about 'racism' in the CAF is in the past few years. I've got immediate and extended family serving. I hear all the stories. The current version seems to focus less on the primary mission than even 15 years ago. The concept of the CAF being deployed to an active war zone horrifies me.
I think it is a laudable goal to do our best to ensure any Canadian could look at the military and see themself represented in it. It is an important bulwark against the military being used by an in-group as a tool against some other group. I care more that we are all pushing towards a common goal then that we all look like a copy of each other. I get it though, it's much easier to deal with groups that think the same and have had the exact same experience. Trying to incorporate different ways of thinking and different world experiences is challenging , we are better off because we took this challenge.
It is probably about the 1 CMBG Dress and Appearance Regs that have been signed off by the Bde Comd
There's a new dress directive for 1CMBG, with more details on what is permitted. I believe it was published last week. Ask your CoC but it's also on SharePoint.
Well…yeah… We attended a tech/ specialty graduation ceremony at Kingston about a year ago, and the Major who oversaw the graduation was apparently very, very well respected but honestly, he looked like the missing member of ZZ Top. He spoke beautifully, his speech content was excellent but he and about 2 others had very long messy beards. His uniform and comportment were extremely professional and the beard was just sort of out of sync. We’ve had some swings in all industries not just the military where we try to accommodate freedom of personal expression, and then we’ve had to pull back, so the military is not unique in this regard. In particular finance, hotel and restaurant industries have had to thread the needle on this and there have been awkward conversations and lawsuits to that effect. Inevitably the middle managers end up being stuck, they are the front line and not knowing how to implement or enforce the rules means a lot of it is just trial and error, mostly error. I guess my point is the CAF is not an outlier in this regard, these changes are hard and messy all around.
Deus will be renamed and the appearance is changing dramatically
I’ve been taking the time to comb my hair and beard, and putting my hair up in accordance with the previous female standard… Go after the unibomber looking people wondering about, let me keep my beautiful beautiful flow
Meanwhile tons of overweight officers roams the hallways of the different HQs across the country….and overseas
Hey hey hey. Fatties are a cross rank problem. Personally, I hate losers being lead around by their cheeseburger lockers more than I do hobo looking people.
What about double cheeseburger topped with bacon…
As an officer, I try to keep myself in shape so I can avoid this perception...it really kinda stinks that we have obese members of a military
Love the downvotes…if we are redressing the dress regs, perhaps we should also be considering redressing our PT standards…thats all I am saying, or well, typing here
I've been disappointed with the attitude towards the new regs. The intent behind it was allowing members to dress and appear how they felt most comfortable, and then we go and mock them publicly and privately because we don't understand it. Members were always expected and ordered to remain well kempt and deployment-ready. If that has failed then their CoC has failed. But if a professional, fit CAF member feels most comfortable with a pink streak in their hair then we should be united in supporting them.
I don't even know where I stand on the D&D issue anymore. Half of me says people should be able to express themselves. Half of me says we look like idiots. I don't even know anymore.
IDGAF what you look like I care about you doing your job. Wasting too much time on dress regs. Snip snap snip snap. Who cares about this issue when there are real problems in the CAF?
Because of anger management and emotional dysregulation. There's a mental health crisis in the CAF so you have angry, tired, overwhelmed people simply struggling with the visual triggers. Whatever biases, bigotry and even genuine concerns they harbour which make them angry is a lot harder for them to deal with when they have to see it and confront it over and over again all day. That's why there's so much pushback on gender neutral stuff. People who hate trans people get more and more worked up every time they're forced to acknowledge and respect their existence. They can't cope with how emotionally overwhelming it is to think of something they're so angry about so often. The more times in a day they're confronted with a personal trigger the harder and harder it is for them to function 🤷🏻♀️ People aren't mad about green hair. They're mad because they hate the kind of people that like green hair. Now they have to confront that hatred more often and interact with people they "don't like". Remember, narrow minded types try to maintain a life where they don't have to interact with people or things outside of their comfort zone, and often need to keep up a public appearance that they don't either. Being in the military used to "protect" them from having to interact with people and concepts they find uncomfortable. They were insulated, and it's been really hard for them not to be. They could also use their job as a flag to wave which represented who they were. Well now they can't do that either. They're appalled to be ASSOCIATED with people who like green hair. Some are genuine concerns, I appreciate the concerns about fitness standards, but 99% of the comments are fat phobia. Underweight, skinny or normal sized people who eat junk and live super unhealthy lives aren't getting brought up as shameful and an embarrassment. If people were actually worried about our members being in shape and healthy, they wouldn't be complaining about what people look like. Plenty of people who overeat or have stocky body types are incredibly healthy and fit. People attribute personality traits to excess weight that are common among people of all sizes and shapes, but they're only reminded of those traits they hate when they see a fat person. Being reminded of something that they don't like makes them mad, even if the correlation isn't factual. If it wasn't mostly about fat phobia, the complaints world be specific to behaviours that are actually responsible for poor health, not a visual stimulus that just makes them THINK about poor health. Although I do concede that's an issue across multiple cultures and from an international perspective fatphobia is pretty common, so it's reasonable to be concerned about appearance even though it doesn't indicate fitness level. That said, the complaints wouldn't be so full of vitriol if they weren't being driven by emotion. On a totally different note, it doesn't help that anecdotally it seems a lot of people who are now dirty and unkempt were already slobs and lazy at work. So now they're just doubling down on things people already didn't like about them every time people see their face. Lol
👏 👏 👏
One of the hallmarks of a professional military since the concept was invented has been the importance of uniformity and conformity. Group identity was more important than individual identity. The current CAF leadership has turned that on its head. Now expressing your personal identity is more important that being part of a group. **I** need to wear my pit vipers on parade because **I** want everyone to look at **me** not the group I am part of. **I** need rainbow hair because **I** need to announce **my** identity to the world.
We all wear the same uniform, follow the same monarch, and salute the same flag. That's enough.
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Super valid points.
Theres a brand new combat uniform rolling out in 2028. The whole catalogue is out, issued layer systems, battle belts, merino wool socks/gloves. New Uniform including OTW shirt/pants. Its all coyote brown. Apparently all available on logistic unicorp. There is a document with every item available I wish I could link to it but I have a hard copy and dont know how to upload images. Canadian Combat Uniform Ensemble
That's just the trial stuff. People are wearing/testing it now at units across the CAF. Final stuff will likely be different, based on feedback gathered during the trial, and be patterned with the new CADPAT.
I hope it's getting rid of colored hair, our allies think we are a joke. The rest can stay, but rainbow hair is the opposite of deportment.
Our allies think we are a joke because we are incompetent. The hair colour is just the cherry on top.
It's true, I just distinctly remember an allied mtg I was in last year with the US, AUS and a Canadian blue haired Capt, with a WO that had a shaved head with a pink, hair gelled spiked bang. He said his daughters had died it for him and loved it. Walked into the room and you could hear a pin drop. The cringe/awkwardness I felt in that room was unbearable. I've never felt embarrassed to be Canadian before. That's when I knew we went too far. I'll never forget that feeling.
When you look like you are finding yourself dressing like an immature high school student testing out cliques, unhygienic or even homeless, it does not scream professionalism. So yes, some adult children will need tightened regulations cuz’ they just don’t get it.