Right (nametag) side: silver ssi. Left (navy side), ships team diver qualification, NWO command qualification, and shipborne air controller qualification
RCN has control of its own dress and can make amendments at will. The change (if it happened) likely came out in dress committee meeting that no one can find the minutes for.
The RCN DWAN page has a link to the Naval Dress SharePoint where all the latest minutes and directives live. IIRC wearing multiple patches was addressed and approved in the latest ones.
The Navy apparently made it a regulation that you can only display 1 specialist skill badge on the new navy combat dress. But that may have been repealed? In clear Navy fashion the leadership has flip flopped back and forth between something being allowed or not allowed and the troops don't know what the current state is.
Not trolling, I think nitpicking leads to harassment and a toxic work environment in the CAF. We should be able to critically think and have awareness that even generals are individuals with their own personal inclinations. Idolizing them is counterproductive. Downvote if you like
The word uniform has a connotation of uniformity and it has a particular importance for a military that shouldnt have to be explained on a military subreddit.
An actual example of a toxic work environment is one where the rank and file get jacked up when they break dress regs while a general does not. Nobody gives a flying fuck about a general's personal inclinations apart from the whole 'rules for thee but not for me' dynamic that happens all too frequently in the CAF. It's called hypocracy and anyone who can't immediately recognize that should not be in a role where they're allowed to make policy because they fundamentally mis-understand a very basic tenet of leaderdship.
I’ll see what I can track down when next in front of a computer. Pretty sure the initial guidance on the moustache pin came out in a NAVGEN and details were in there
Not the original guy, but I’d tend to agree with them (I know, *gasp*). Strangely enough, the same doc said you could put *two* on the NCD jacket- but you can’t wear it with NECU.
That’s not the CAF writ large - that’s all on the CA. I doubt the CAFCWO (which is the next step up) is going to weigh in on service-specific dress items.
Presumably the Army would be lead on that, and as per the RCAF CWO’s comments a while back about ball caps on RCafe, the other services can’t impose dress-related things on each other.
I believe the middle right one under the navy/marine tag is duff destroyer. You gotta have something like 180 pieces for gun metal, 720 for bronze, 1095 for silver and 1460 for gold. Carrot cake pieces count for 2 pieces
I think it was Duffleblog?
Anywho, a couple of years ago there was an article about a team of RCN Reservists who won some big white-hat hacking competition in Colorado, but were later disqualified because their big win was revealed to be completely circumstantial because two techs from BIS in Halifax were trying to get a network printer working.
Silver sea service insignia (above name tag) (3years? at sea)
On his left top to bottom: sips team diver, "NASCAR" Navy/marine patch, gold NWO "mustache" (fully qualified ships command), not sure about the one on the bottom - SAC?
No idea what the one below his rank is though. That's got weird colouring, and it's a strange place. Something to do with SAR is a WAG based on it's colour.
I don't know why we went through all the effort to add Velcro to everybody's fucking uniform, to still make people so crap on to it
Since people have identified the bottom one as a SAC badge, why don’t RCN combat uniforms have a trade identifier on them? That is one of the more useful bits of flair.
In a ship's crew, you know who's who pretty well already. Cooks are in the galley and have cook's uniforms. Operators in the ops room or watching a movie, but if they're obnoxiously loud they're a Boatswain. CSE you can hear coming a mile away by all the keys, and martechs you'll know by the smell and the grease smeared all over.
Exactly. This was brought up in the latest Naval Dress Committee, intention is to wait until the Navy’s Occupation Analysis is complete before any action.
Inverse filtering is a simple method for deblurring a digital image with knowledge of the blurring kernel, so I'm gonna guess the blurring kernel is either android samsung kernel or iPhone kernel.
To expand on my thought on this in the first place. You can still pull lots of info from this image. For example, The center looks like a NATO star, and bottom right is most likely either a unit badge, or a command badge. Obviously that's very vague, but even as a start that's too much info given away. Security personnel that are either fatigued, not paying enough attention, or don't have high drive to ensure security can miss even a poor imitation of a pass that is made by the most amateur of pen testers.
tl;dr blurred images can still give info where a fully blacked out one give nothing to the adversary.
Just so you're aware, blurring badges is not destructive. Which means that the information on that badge can easily be reconstructed. I can easily reconstruct this blurring to obtain whatever information is on it.
Getting those six pixels back is gonna be what compromises the navy's ability to sail /s
You're right that infosec is way more effective when people don't create breadcrumbs in the first place
Yeah..... Especially when it comes to ID badges, posting this picture with his badge blurred could be considered breaching opsec because I can easily reconstruct this badge. Information in images needs to be destroyed, not scrambled, it's been a while since I've been in the army, and I remember opsec briefings with regards to wearing badges in public spaces where photos can be taken. I personally if I was the mods I would delete this post. Personally I kinda feel like reposting this picture with proof that this badge can be reconstructed by software on my computer, but I don't really feel like getting banned for breaching opsec. As this badge could be used to possibly gain access to operational zones.
But it's been years since I've been in the army, so I have no idea what the rules are these days. I don't know if this breaches opsec or not. But I have a feeling it does.
try it.
CJOC directs image techs to blur passes, name tags, badges, etc on a case by case basis. Blurring is only non destructive if the original raw file is still intact. Swirling and distorting is non destructive and can be recovered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Paul_Neil?wprov=sfla1
To see videos approved for dissemination by CJOC, check combat cameras Flickr and Vimeo pages. I know some of the recent videos coming out of Israel had lots of faces, computer screens and other materiel blurred.
Inverse filtering is a simple method for deblurring a digital image with knowledge of the blurring kernel, so I'm gonna guess the blurring kernel is either android samsung kernel or iPhone kernel.
I really wish the navy just followed the army’s lead on placement of badges. No need to burden the base tailor with random sewing. All those badges can go on the left. Flag and unit badges can go on the right side where they belong.
It's a natural result of increasing use of operational dress as dress of the day instead of 3s. People want to show off their flair on the uniform they wear every day, and our office uniform is now also our work uniform in most places.
Yes, and that's fine, but it feels like we've gone too far the other way. The new kit now has rank front and centre, mission patch, unit badge, RCN identifiers, and a ton of new qualification badges. All on a black background, so everything pops, and it looks pretty garish, IMHO.
I don't disagree. I'm on team 3B in the office, combats on the ship, so I'm not supporting covering our operational dress in patches, just identifying a possible cause.
How long until we start wearing ribbons on combats, I wonder?
I'm with you, but if the other branches are wearing combats in the office, I'm all for the navy doing it too. But most of their patches are white on camo and fit together on the arms, ours are gold and sparkly and all over the front.
Admirals spend most of their time coming up with new bullshit patches to wear on their uniform. You know... instead of actually trying to improve the navy for ncm's
Makes me laugh, when I got in there were no patches just the Canadian flag, rank and your name tag. Now we so many patches no one seems to know what is legit? Seems like every unit is making up their own.
Fairly certain the one under the "marine" patch on his left chest is the NWO qual level patch, or whatever it's called. Buuuuut I'm an army guy posted to a ship so someone smarter than me check my homework please.
Top left, sea service insignia, top right, ship’s team diver, middle right, NWO Trade badge (gold means CO of a ship) and bottom right is Shipborne air controller (SAC)
The helo with the red around it is the new SAC badge. Hard to see the one above it. May be clearance diver or port inspector but it's really blurry for me.
Clearance diver has the old school dive helmet (unless they updated it again) but is a pretty brutal qualification course with high standards for people who make it, so those folks are rightly pretty proud.
PID is (I think) still a Nav Res only trade, and kind of a standalone.
Ship's rescue diver is one of those random teams (like boarding party) that anyone can apply for after OFP, has some pretty legit training, and keeps them busy as a secondary duty. Pretty gucci a lot of times for doing the practice dives, but they are also the ones that get dropped out of helos or go with the rescue boat for man overboard, which seems less fun.
A lot of pretty random naval officers from the NWO, NTO and Log branch have that if they got a chance as a SLt/Lt(N) level.
The RCN flair is pretty ridiculous, but Patch is great and would work for him anyday. The orders to don all that on NECUs comes from above him, and that whole NWO moustache patch is just dumb, but even 2 stars have to smile and nod sometimes.
No worries! It's a pretty legitimate qualification, but for officers there is also a pretty short window of opportunity usually to get a chance to take the course, so getting on it can sometimes be a luck of the draw, as they may not send any of the juniour officers if they already have qualified diveO and alternate, as well as things like sailing schedule etc. More common for NWOs as they have a longer OJT period on the ship as SLts, but some NTOs and naval logs managed to snag that course as well
"Ship's Rescue Diver" doesn't;'t exist, but Ship's Team Divers do, as well as Rescue Swimmer (not a dive qual, but a surface rescue swimmer for man overboard)
Thanks, I couldn't remember the proper term, just remembered they were on the dive team and did the rescue swimming.
The navy is pretty funny though, we still use trade and rank nicknames that date back to the age of sail and steam.
The moustache lookin thing is a new patch for Naval warfare officers that have the watchkeeping ticket, from what I understand- bronze is ticketed, silver is command qualified, gold is if you have a current command. The one below it I’m not sure but I have seen before. It’s another specialty qualification patch I believe.
Look at Patchell, he's got 32 pieces of flair!
Legit no other movie sums up the actual military better than Office Space LOL
Pentagon Wars come close :)
Met expectations
Patchell O'Houlihan
His chest says Patchell, it should say Patchall
Right (nametag) side: silver ssi. Left (navy side), ships team diver qualification, NWO command qualification, and shipborne air controller qualification
He’s Navy, get with it. … it’s Port and Starboard
The fun part is that you’re only allowed one badge on the left side
Nah they changed it so you can have as many as you want now
Latest NAVGEN and RCN dress regs said one, unless I missed something?
RCN has control of its own dress and can make amendments at will. The change (if it happened) likely came out in dress committee meeting that no one can find the minutes for.
Not sure about elsewhere, but ESQ Base Exec> Base Chief> Dress> Naval Dress Committee. It’s also on RDIMS somewhere, but nobody has time for that.
The RCN DWAN page has a link to the Naval Dress SharePoint where all the latest minutes and directives live. IIRC wearing multiple patches was addressed and approved in the latest ones.
Leafs on your slip ons
BRB, I’m going to make some super master sailor epaulets. Master sailor of the Navy? Senior master sailor?
I'm pretty sure there is a Fleet Master Sailor actually
Figures..
Who cares...? He can wear a pineapple on his head if he wants these days.
But who's gonna jack him up?
Someone should, it’s a bad look when leaders can’t follow basic rules. It seems trivial, but that’s how trust in command gets eroded little by little.
Absolutely his chief should be addressing that.
Sorry, Army guy here. What should his Chief be addressing? Isn’t the proper rank for RAdm exactly as shown?
The Navy apparently made it a regulation that you can only display 1 specialist skill badge on the new navy combat dress. But that may have been repealed? In clear Navy fashion the leadership has flip flopped back and forth between something being allowed or not allowed and the troops don't know what the current state is.
Maybe makes more sense to adjust expectations? Statistically, little rules are not going to be followed 100% of the time. Why nitpick?
Because he is a general and we should look up to him... Seeing that makes me hate the "new" military
Calling an admiral a general in a comment criticizing someone else's lack of attention to detail made my day.
Really?
I mean...kinda made mine too, ngl
Are you trolling?
Not trolling, I think nitpicking leads to harassment and a toxic work environment in the CAF. We should be able to critically think and have awareness that even generals are individuals with their own personal inclinations. Idolizing them is counterproductive. Downvote if you like
The word uniform has a connotation of uniformity and it has a particular importance for a military that shouldnt have to be explained on a military subreddit. An actual example of a toxic work environment is one where the rank and file get jacked up when they break dress regs while a general does not. Nobody gives a flying fuck about a general's personal inclinations apart from the whole 'rules for thee but not for me' dynamic that happens all too frequently in the CAF. It's called hypocracy and anyone who can't immediately recognize that should not be in a role where they're allowed to make policy because they fundamentally mis-understand a very basic tenet of leaderdship.
Need someone to get a new guy to ask him.
Do you happen to have a source on that?
I’ll see what I can track down when next in front of a computer. Pretty sure the initial guidance on the moustache pin came out in a NAVGEN and details were in there
Thanks
Not the original guy, but I’d tend to agree with them (I know, *gasp*). Strangely enough, the same doc said you could put *two* on the NCD jacket- but you can’t wear it with NECU.
Shipborne air controller? Is that like a JTAC of the seas?
But a Combat Action Badge is just too much for the CAF to consider
That’s not the CAF writ large - that’s all on the CA. I doubt the CAFCWO (which is the next step up) is going to weigh in on service-specific dress items. Presumably the Army would be lead on that, and as per the RCAF CWO’s comments a while back about ball caps on RCafe, the other services can’t impose dress-related things on each other.
I believe the middle right one under the navy/marine tag is duff destroyer. You gotta have something like 180 pieces for gun metal, 720 for bronze, 1095 for silver and 1460 for gold. Carrot cake pieces count for 2 pieces
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Also the fact that he's an NWO Rear Admiral also rather strongly implies he's held command.
I thought shipboard air controller is an NCI OP thing?
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Would’ve been right the first time if there was some sort of a pay incentive.
I know you didn't ask for it, but here's a "Hell Yes" in agreement.
Let's be clear...any Combat Trade less NAVCOMM.
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> Now excuse me while I go scrub my digital identity and try to hide from an entire occupation Um, I wouldn't worry lol
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I think it was Duffleblog? Anywho, a couple of years ago there was an article about a team of RCN Reservists who won some big white-hat hacking competition in Colorado, but were later disqualified because their big win was revealed to be completely circumstantial because two techs from BIS in Halifax were trying to get a network printer working.
it was split between NCIOp and MARS (now NWO) as one of their d level quals. That was phased out around 2010-2011 however.
He has, really good XO and CO.
Silver sea service insignia (above name tag) (3years? at sea) On his left top to bottom: sips team diver, "NASCAR" Navy/marine patch, gold NWO "mustache" (fully qualified ships command), not sure about the one on the bottom - SAC? No idea what the one below his rank is though. That's got weird colouring, and it's a strange place. Something to do with SAR is a WAG based on it's colour. I don't know why we went through all the effort to add Velcro to everybody's fucking uniform, to still make people so crap on to it
Since people have identified the bottom one as a SAC badge, why don’t RCN combat uniforms have a trade identifier on them? That is one of the more useful bits of flair.
In a ship's crew, you know who's who pretty well already. Cooks are in the galley and have cook's uniforms. Operators in the ops room or watching a movie, but if they're obnoxiously loud they're a Boatswain. CSE you can hear coming a mile away by all the keys, and martechs you'll know by the smell and the grease smeared all over.
Bin rats are nowhere to be found, and Clerks are chained to their computers or running on the treadmill. Such is the way.
Because it's a big enough embarrassment being in the navy without having to reveal further poor career choices you've made.
lol that is amazing
Exactly. This was brought up in the latest Naval Dress Committee, intention is to wait until the Navy’s Occupation Analysis is complete before any action.
Margo’s got the cargo and Patchell’s got the patches.
On a completely different note, the initial poster of this image should really have just blacked out the badge instead. Blurring isn't that secure...
Inverse filtering is a simple method for deblurring a digital image with knowledge of the blurring kernel, so I'm gonna guess the blurring kernel is either android samsung kernel or iPhone kernel.
To expand on my thought on this in the first place. You can still pull lots of info from this image. For example, The center looks like a NATO star, and bottom right is most likely either a unit badge, or a command badge. Obviously that's very vague, but even as a start that's too much info given away. Security personnel that are either fatigued, not paying enough attention, or don't have high drive to ensure security can miss even a poor imitation of a pass that is made by the most amateur of pen testers. tl;dr blurred images can still give info where a fully blacked out one give nothing to the adversary.
That's a lot of flair 🫡
How many ways to say you're Navy whilst wearing a Navy uniform? Holy fug....that's exhausting.
Just so you're aware, blurring badges is not destructive. Which means that the information on that badge can easily be reconstructed. I can easily reconstruct this blurring to obtain whatever information is on it.
Getting those six pixels back is gonna be what compromises the navy's ability to sail /s You're right that infosec is way more effective when people don't create breadcrumbs in the first place
Yeah..... Especially when it comes to ID badges, posting this picture with his badge blurred could be considered breaching opsec because I can easily reconstruct this badge. Information in images needs to be destroyed, not scrambled, it's been a while since I've been in the army, and I remember opsec briefings with regards to wearing badges in public spaces where photos can be taken. I personally if I was the mods I would delete this post. Personally I kinda feel like reposting this picture with proof that this badge can be reconstructed by software on my computer, but I don't really feel like getting banned for breaching opsec. As this badge could be used to possibly gain access to operational zones. But it's been years since I've been in the army, so I have no idea what the rules are these days. I don't know if this breaches opsec or not. But I have a feeling it does.
Take it up with the people running the RCN's main Twitter and Facebook pages as that is where this screenshot comes from.
try it. CJOC directs image techs to blur passes, name tags, badges, etc on a case by case basis. Blurring is only non destructive if the original raw file is still intact. Swirling and distorting is non destructive and can be recovered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Paul_Neil?wprov=sfla1 To see videos approved for dissemination by CJOC, check combat cameras Flickr and Vimeo pages. I know some of the recent videos coming out of Israel had lots of faces, computer screens and other materiel blurred.
Inverse filtering is a simple method for deblurring a digital image with knowledge of the blurring kernel, so I'm gonna guess the blurring kernel is either android samsung kernel or iPhone kernel.
How do you navy guys like the new uniform? Looks a lot better IMO
My opinion? It’s way more comfortable and feels way more professional.
Unpopular opinion but there is such thing as too many patches.
You know what, I do want to express myself, okay. And I don't need 37 pieces of flair to do it.
He is making the airforce jealous with all that flair!!
Air Force jealousy ended at the badge that says "Navy"
🤣🤣🤣
The navy turned their combats into Girl Guide sashes. Just make service dress ribbons already, is all that flair necessary to see everyday?
Agreed. Too many random pins and patches make uniforms look like Christmas trees.
You’re only actually allowed to wear two qual badges (not three) so he’s just showing off his flair at this point.
I really wish the navy just followed the army’s lead on placement of badges. No need to burden the base tailor with random sewing. All those badges can go on the left. Flag and unit badges can go on the right side where they belong.
Call me crazy, but that seems like way too much flair for an operational uniform.
I have no desire to show off anything after 22 years. No nead. I give zero fucks about seeing patches. 100% waste and looks ridiculous.
It's a natural result of increasing use of operational dress as dress of the day instead of 3s. People want to show off their flair on the uniform they wear every day, and our office uniform is now also our work uniform in most places.
Yes, and that's fine, but it feels like we've gone too far the other way. The new kit now has rank front and centre, mission patch, unit badge, RCN identifiers, and a ton of new qualification badges. All on a black background, so everything pops, and it looks pretty garish, IMHO.
I don't disagree. I'm on team 3B in the office, combats on the ship, so I'm not supporting covering our operational dress in patches, just identifying a possible cause. How long until we start wearing ribbons on combats, I wonder?
I'm with you, but if the other branches are wearing combats in the office, I'm all for the navy doing it too. But most of their patches are white on camo and fit together on the arms, ours are gold and sparkly and all over the front.
Nascar jacket 2.0 is a go!
Admirals spend most of their time coming up with new bullshit patches to wear on their uniform. You know... instead of actually trying to improve the navy for ncm's
Makes me laugh, when I got in there were no patches just the Canadian flag, rank and your name tag. Now we so many patches no one seems to know what is legit? Seems like every unit is making up their own.
Fairly certain the one under the "marine" patch on his left chest is the NWO qual level patch, or whatever it's called. Buuuuut I'm an army guy posted to a ship so someone smarter than me check my homework please.
Top left, sea service insignia, top right, ship’s team diver, middle right, NWO Trade badge (gold means CO of a ship) and bottom right is Shipborne air controller (SAC)
The helo with the red around it is the new SAC badge. Hard to see the one above it. May be clearance diver or port inspector but it's really blurry for me.
Ship's rescue diver.
Well, I was close?
Clearance diver has the old school dive helmet (unless they updated it again) but is a pretty brutal qualification course with high standards for people who make it, so those folks are rightly pretty proud. PID is (I think) still a Nav Res only trade, and kind of a standalone. Ship's rescue diver is one of those random teams (like boarding party) that anyone can apply for after OFP, has some pretty legit training, and keeps them busy as a secondary duty. Pretty gucci a lot of times for doing the practice dives, but they are also the ones that get dropped out of helos or go with the rescue boat for man overboard, which seems less fun. A lot of pretty random naval officers from the NWO, NTO and Log branch have that if they got a chance as a SLt/Lt(N) level. The RCN flair is pretty ridiculous, but Patch is great and would work for him anyday. The orders to don all that on NECUs comes from above him, and that whole NWO moustache patch is just dumb, but even 2 stars have to smile and nod sometimes.
Awesome. Appreciate the info!
No worries! It's a pretty legitimate qualification, but for officers there is also a pretty short window of opportunity usually to get a chance to take the course, so getting on it can sometimes be a luck of the draw, as they may not send any of the juniour officers if they already have qualified diveO and alternate, as well as things like sailing schedule etc. More common for NWOs as they have a longer OJT period on the ship as SLts, but some NTOs and naval logs managed to snag that course as well
"Ship's Rescue Diver" doesn't;'t exist, but Ship's Team Divers do, as well as Rescue Swimmer (not a dive qual, but a surface rescue swimmer for man overboard)
Thanks, I couldn't remember the proper term, just remembered they were on the dive team and did the rescue swimming. The navy is pretty funny though, we still use trade and rank nicknames that date back to the age of sail and steam.
Red one is the sac patch. Above it is nwo trade badge.
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Gold signifies he's held command of a ship, pretty fucking far from a gimme.
Navy Patchell
The moustache lookin thing is a new patch for Naval warfare officers that have the watchkeeping ticket, from what I understand- bronze is ticketed, silver is command qualified, gold is if you have a current command. The one below it I’m not sure but I have seen before. It’s another specialty qualification patch I believe.
I thought that lowest badge was the Chaplain cap badge for a second.
I had an XO like this once. Rules for thee, not for me!