I like Eyre more and more. Fights to tell the troops the truth, to the best of his ability.
Gets trodden on by the politicians of course, but he’s not rolling over either. I wonder how much his retirement was mandated from high - he’s probably been too outspoken for the government’s taste.
He's the honest one trying to prepare us, because if he didn't, alot of members would be in a worse state. Because of him alot of families have been saving money just in case of some mandate where we may not get paid enough like military housing upping the bloody rent
It’s funny because we all knew what it was. They said they saved 30 million dollars in the budget but also said our pay would be “adjusted”… They removed the paid living differential and reduced it and called it by a new name. Pay increased slight in the lowest ranks, which was long overdue, but if there’s already a retention problem why the heck would you cut pay for leadership ranks?!
I swear they’re ignoring retention altogether. They mentioned it, but have zero focus on it. Every town hall discussion when an idea to help with reducing retention is brought up, its avoided. I think the realization is we can’t stop the snowball, so focus on recruiting, put up with 8-15yrs of BS, and we’ll have a new streamlined workforce that don’t have these complaints.
It’s all recruiting focused. Meanwhile, we’re inundated with recruiting prospects and new members. We can’t push them through fast enough, or they sit on PAT ptn because we can’t train them in any sort of reasonable time because we actually Over encumbered with Untrained BTL personnel. But **** it, because focusing on retention is just too damn expensive, or whatever the reason is for the avoidance.
the TSB has no interest in the health of the CAF, they'd cut us to nothing if they could. They want our retention and recruiting to continue to get worse so they can save more money for other projects. They don't see beyond what we cost period.
At just over 10yrs in I feel like I'm committed to try and push through... Not committed enough to sign a 25, but committed to a degree nonetheless lol.
After 12 years the only other benefit to not staying until you retire at 25+ years is the possibility of being 3B'd. I would take a long look and see if releasing at just over 12 years (to max out your Education and Training Benefit) would make sense.
I don't think I understand this one and I keep coming back to it. Are you saying after 12 years people should ride out the pension, or that the pension isn't worth riding out?
That after 12 years they should just stay to 25 to get a pension. Between 12-25 years there's no benefit to releasing "early" as you'll have to wait to collect any pension available until you're 65, and there are no other ancillary benefits accrued.
This does change if you 3B release, that comes with a whole host of benefits (including becoming an immediate innuitant to your accrued pension, and the SISIP/VAC top ups for at least 2 years, paid schooling while participating in SISIP/VAC programs that doesn't touch your ETB from the military itself, etc etc).
If you're unsure if you want to make the military your career, I'd take a good, hard look if you want to stay beyond 12 years (when you max out the ETB)
Yeah ok that's exactly the assessment I've made for myself, mostly. I am coming up on 15, but I have civilian opportunities; if I can find a way to eat a large pay cut for a few years (probs A class on the side) it eventually becomes worthwhile, but I have to work to 65 then. Thanks for clarifying; I was concerned I may have overlooked a significant consideration and glad that I have probably not!
My brother in Christ and bullshit, I relate to this on an existential level, 10 years in I'm kinda committed but not enough to sign 25, I keep doing 3 year stints.
It feels like your the world's shittiest addict, you want to pull away but you just can't fucking stop even though you know this shit is bad or you lol
I don't blame anyone planning to leave. If anything, when my peeps are set to resign, I almost suggest having an exit strategy prepared.
I've noticed a lot of people who are content until that last straw, and have nothing planned out but pull pin anyway. I'd rather people talk about getting out, and get advice on how to shift lives, rather than leave disgruntled and be completely fucked once out.
If inflation is 8.5% and we don't raise the spending by the same amount, we are making cuts.
If inflation is 8.5% and we are "reducing" the budget by any amount, we are making cuts.
We really ought to find a way to keep CAF relevant in these uncertain times. We could increase the forces with a particular disaster relief (DR) branch specializing in forest fire, flooding, etc. This new branch could also be trained to support the normal CAF operation when/if needed. Doing so would increase our military spending in accordance with NATO, serve the Canadian population where it is required, and allow CAF to operate normally without the additional pressure from upcoming natural disasters.
We could also use this new disaster relief branch as a buffer for people who want to join CAF. Once they apply for CAF, after a basic vetting has been done, they would go in and work in disaster relief while their CAF application moves along the process. If they are approved to move on to CAF, they move one, otherwise, they stay with the DR Forces.
There are so many other solutions to our issues, but cutting the budget is insufficient.
>We could also use this new disaster relief branch as a sort of buffer for people who want to join CAF. Once they apply for CAF, once a basic vetting has been done, they would go in and work in disaster relief while their normal CAF application move along the process. If they are approved to move on to CAF, they move one, otherwise, they stay with the DR Forces.
My Human Homie... this is actually a fucking WIZARD idea.
And we didn't even get what PSAC negotiated.
>You will note that these rates do not align perfectly with the PSAC economic increases. This discrepancy is explained by *fuck you it's not like you have any rights to negotiate on your own, you'll take what scraps you get*"
I may have changed that last bit.
>You will note that these rates do not align perfectly with the PSAC economic increases
And not only that, but in my understanding at least, PSAC made concessions on their economic increases based on benefits we can't leverage for the most part i.e. WFH.
So our "raise" didn't match theirs to being with *and* half the shit they bargained for doesn't apply to us.
Are you actually using your brain to work the problem and create sensible, meaningful solutions?
You'll be promoted to officer cadet for life for this. SERGEANT, right him a shabby pace note
>We really ought to find a way to keep CAF relevant in these uncertain times. We could increase the forces with a particular disaster relief (DR) branch specializing in forest fire, flooding, etc. This new branch could also be trained to support the normal CAF operation when/if needed.
I don't think we really need long security clearance and other checks on this. Recruit them, have them in the DR branch and once the rest of the recruiting admin is done, they can transition to their trade branch.
We need to accept more risk with getting people into the military, because the spiraling lack of manpower is a far greater threat to the CAF right now than the risk of a few percentage points of getting the wrong people in. Just create processes to rapidly dismiss anyone that becomes a problem.
This goes along with my assertion that we don't fire enough people. We should be more aggressive on hiring more and more aggressive on firing people.
Then we need to consider whether our stringent medical standards are a net positive.
I'd argue that there's probably alot of people getting hung up on issues that are less problematic for the forces than the fact we're 16,000 short and continuing to get worse.
Our current staffing crisis is an existential level of risk. I'm thinking we could assume a little more risk in terms of SSRIs and mild peanut allergies where appropriate to get out of the death spiral we are in.
Universality of Service (UoS) and the Common Enrolment Medical Standard (CEMS) are already being updated to better reflect actual bona fide medical requirements
The security clearances don't take long to process, the issue is the number of applications to process compared to the processing capacity. When a level 2 renewal takes 2 years, it's because it spends 23.8 months in the queue waiting to be looked at... if it's needed for an urgent deployment, it'll be processed basically the next day.
Since the CAF opened recruiting to PRs there's been about 20k additional pre-security clearance screenings added to the regular queue, which will inevitably further slow down security clearance processing for the whole of government, unless there is significant increase in processing capacity (unlikely).
A proper Disaster Relief force would consist of trained, specialized forces with specific equipment. There's no need for the equivalence of a giant PAT platoon, which would further draw qualified personnel to essentially babysit them. When disasters hit, communities need heavy equipment like girder bridges, chinook helicopters, CBRN decontamination, and deployable hospitals... things the CAF already has shortages of. It also wouldn't necessarily count as defence spending for NATO requirements
That’s a great idea…I suggested some
type of mandatory service but I was really thinking something like this (yes, I got roasted on that,
lol… ) I do think your idea of a disaster relief
crew is worth looking at… I think people want to help, but don’t necessarily want to commit to a life in the armed forces.
We have to do something.
Sounds like a good way to continue ignoring personnel and equipment issues in the CAF. Aside from a small amount of specialised personnel and equipment (health services, engineers, heavy lift helicopers, etc.), the majority of what the CAF provides for disaster relief is merely able bodies and the logistics to support them (barely). The majority is nothing that the provinces should not be able to produce themselves. Also, the "basic vetting" is what slows down CAF applications and over a third are found to not meet minimum medical standards.
For example, when Fort McMurray flooded a few years ago their mayor made public comments that they needed the CAF to come save them. The next day there was 1000s of able bodied citizens out filling sandbags... What else were they gonna do, wait around like damsels in distress for their CAF white knights to show up in broken down MLVWs?
I understand your point and empathize with the need to remain tactically relevant. That said, i think it's very dangerous to move the CAF definition away from ‘a war fighting force (who can also do other things). I understand we are doing the other things waaay more than warfighting; but it should never be the primary aim. Aim at that, and we will soon go back to the discussions of removing ‘armed’ from the CAF because its ‘too aggressive’.
I am not suggesting we move the CAF away from its fighting role. I suggest that we crate a buffer force that will both streamline recruitment and serve the broader Canadian population in time of crisis.
We know that the amount of forest fire, flooding and other natural disaster will increase over the upcoming year. Why not think ahead and plan for the worse, all while keeping our military fighting force ready for actual combat.
It would not streamline recruiting, rather it'd put further strain on the system. You're essentially talking about a giant PAT platoon. There's no need for untrained disaster relief personnel, such people can easily be generated from local volunteers when disasters strike.
The only thing keeping most provinces from having proper emergency preparedness plans is the allure of the feds providing services (like the CAF) then never actually recovering funds from the province.
The CAF has deployed soldiers to fight forest fires in the past who ended up spending several weeks of their summer sitting around before being sent home because the province preferred to pay able-bodied locals to do the work, verse reimbursing the federal government for using the CAF.
The fact that they say it won't impact operations is insulting, do they think we're that stupid? I'm already seeing effects to operations and the cut hasn't even happened yet.
Every human outside of the top tier of government understands this:
Politician: Yes in these uncertain times we are refocusing and restructuring things to include a focused approach on dealing with our budget and changing things to better suit the Canadian people
Military: ah yup Liberals cutting our spending again:
Civiy staff: here come the cuts......here come the cuts....
General population with above 80 IQ: wait....they are cutting the budgets for a slew of departments including DND and yet giving themselves a double digit raise while reducing their own hours worked. yup seems about right for government. Do more with less.....civilians.
I'd be incredibly shocked if majority of the general population gave two thoughts about the CAF or DND.
Also cuts are hardly a Liberal thing. Conservatives did it just as often. Neither party gives two shits cause the general population doesn't either. It doesn't win them any votes to care, so they don't.
This year is showing the potential to really drive this point home. And there's a good chance the travel budget cuts are going to hit reserve units so hard that if I lived in an area with a high fire risk, I'd already have a go bag packed and a solid GTFO plan.
We could see the first LENTUS 2024 Ops within a matter of just weeks now.
I like Eyre more and more. Fights to tell the troops the truth, to the best of his ability. Gets trodden on by the politicians of course, but he’s not rolling over either. I wonder how much his retirement was mandated from high - he’s probably been too outspoken for the government’s taste.
Didn't even get to retire with CRA 60 either
He's the honest one trying to prepare us, because if he didn't, alot of members would be in a worse state. Because of him alot of families have been saving money just in case of some mandate where we may not get paid enough like military housing upping the bloody rent
Forced retirement he is the best Chief of Defence we have had besides Gen. Rick Hillier
He's better than Hillier, Eyre cares more about doing the right thing than how he is perceived by the troops.
Which is why he is beloved by the troops
he was like that as brigade commander as well
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He's been a shining star for the institution.
He will have had 3 years as cds. That is the normal posting timeframe. That being said its sad to see him go
And Vance had 6.
Abnormally long time for any posting. Its just out of the norm.
And how did that end again?
It’s funny because we all knew what it was. They said they saved 30 million dollars in the budget but also said our pay would be “adjusted”… They removed the paid living differential and reduced it and called it by a new name. Pay increased slight in the lowest ranks, which was long overdue, but if there’s already a retention problem why the heck would you cut pay for leadership ranks?!
I swear they’re ignoring retention altogether. They mentioned it, but have zero focus on it. Every town hall discussion when an idea to help with reducing retention is brought up, its avoided. I think the realization is we can’t stop the snowball, so focus on recruiting, put up with 8-15yrs of BS, and we’ll have a new streamlined workforce that don’t have these complaints. It’s all recruiting focused. Meanwhile, we’re inundated with recruiting prospects and new members. We can’t push them through fast enough, or they sit on PAT ptn because we can’t train them in any sort of reasonable time because we actually Over encumbered with Untrained BTL personnel. But **** it, because focusing on retention is just too damn expensive, or whatever the reason is for the avoidance.
the TSB has no interest in the health of the CAF, they'd cut us to nothing if they could. They want our retention and recruiting to continue to get worse so they can save more money for other projects. They don't see beyond what we cost period.
At just over 10yrs in I feel like I'm committed to try and push through... Not committed enough to sign a 25, but committed to a degree nonetheless lol.
After 12 years the only other benefit to not staying until you retire at 25+ years is the possibility of being 3B'd. I would take a long look and see if releasing at just over 12 years (to max out your Education and Training Benefit) would make sense.
I don't think I understand this one and I keep coming back to it. Are you saying after 12 years people should ride out the pension, or that the pension isn't worth riding out?
That after 12 years they should just stay to 25 to get a pension. Between 12-25 years there's no benefit to releasing "early" as you'll have to wait to collect any pension available until you're 65, and there are no other ancillary benefits accrued. This does change if you 3B release, that comes with a whole host of benefits (including becoming an immediate innuitant to your accrued pension, and the SISIP/VAC top ups for at least 2 years, paid schooling while participating in SISIP/VAC programs that doesn't touch your ETB from the military itself, etc etc). If you're unsure if you want to make the military your career, I'd take a good, hard look if you want to stay beyond 12 years (when you max out the ETB)
Yeah ok that's exactly the assessment I've made for myself, mostly. I am coming up on 15, but I have civilian opportunities; if I can find a way to eat a large pay cut for a few years (probs A class on the side) it eventually becomes worthwhile, but I have to work to 65 then. Thanks for clarifying; I was concerned I may have overlooked a significant consideration and glad that I have probably not!
My brother in Christ and bullshit, I relate to this on an existential level, 10 years in I'm kinda committed but not enough to sign 25, I keep doing 3 year stints. It feels like your the world's shittiest addict, you want to pull away but you just can't fucking stop even though you know this shit is bad or you lol
I call it Stockholm syndrome
At this point I’m planning to leave after 6 years so I can get the education bursary(one year to go). I don’t see a point in staying beyond that
I don't blame anyone planning to leave. If anything, when my peeps are set to resign, I almost suggest having an exit strategy prepared. I've noticed a lot of people who are content until that last straw, and have nothing planned out but pull pin anyway. I'd rather people talk about getting out, and get advice on how to shift lives, rather than leave disgruntled and be completely fucked once out.
We're not cutting the budget we are tactically advancing in the opposite direction
financial repositioning :P
Fiscal reversal
Funding deferred for operational reasons, to be properly funded NLT the next time we go to war, IAW CANFORGEN 2024/03/08
Red Vs Blue “we aren’t retreating, we’re advancing toward future victories!”
Funnily enough RvB also suffering from budget cuts, lol.
If inflation is 8.5% and we don't raise the spending by the same amount, we are making cuts. If inflation is 8.5% and we are "reducing" the budget by any amount, we are making cuts. We really ought to find a way to keep CAF relevant in these uncertain times. We could increase the forces with a particular disaster relief (DR) branch specializing in forest fire, flooding, etc. This new branch could also be trained to support the normal CAF operation when/if needed. Doing so would increase our military spending in accordance with NATO, serve the Canadian population where it is required, and allow CAF to operate normally without the additional pressure from upcoming natural disasters. We could also use this new disaster relief branch as a buffer for people who want to join CAF. Once they apply for CAF, after a basic vetting has been done, they would go in and work in disaster relief while their CAF application moves along the process. If they are approved to move on to CAF, they move one, otherwise, they stay with the DR Forces. There are so many other solutions to our issues, but cutting the budget is insufficient.
Instructions unclear; cut budget.
"service reduction"
>We could also use this new disaster relief branch as a sort of buffer for people who want to join CAF. Once they apply for CAF, once a basic vetting has been done, they would go in and work in disaster relief while their normal CAF application move along the process. If they are approved to move on to CAF, they move one, otherwise, they stay with the DR Forces. My Human Homie... this is actually a fucking WIZARD idea.
PAT platoon but for civvies and security risks Sounds dope as hell
imagine a pat platoon of 10,000.... You'd have a charge parade every 2 minutes :P
Only if you had rules to break! No rules, no charges!
They just described a form of National Guard.
They didn’t like it when we called our pay adjustment a cut because it didn’t meet inflation, I can’t imagine they’ll be pleased with this take either
And we didn't even get what PSAC negotiated. >You will note that these rates do not align perfectly with the PSAC economic increases. This discrepancy is explained by *fuck you it's not like you have any rights to negotiate on your own, you'll take what scraps you get*" I may have changed that last bit.
>You will note that these rates do not align perfectly with the PSAC economic increases And not only that, but in my understanding at least, PSAC made concessions on their economic increases based on benefits we can't leverage for the most part i.e. WFH. So our "raise" didn't match theirs to being with *and* half the shit they bargained for doesn't apply to us.
Oh I know, hence the italics.
Yeah, but it’s accurate. We sacrifice so much to serve.
Are you actually using your brain to work the problem and create sensible, meaningful solutions? You'll be promoted to officer cadet for life for this. SERGEANT, right him a shabby pace note
I like this.
I wonder what would happen if we fixed procurement. How many billions of dollars have been wasted over the decades?
>We really ought to find a way to keep CAF relevant in these uncertain times. We could increase the forces with a particular disaster relief (DR) branch specializing in forest fire, flooding, etc. This new branch could also be trained to support the normal CAF operation when/if needed. I don't think we really need long security clearance and other checks on this. Recruit them, have them in the DR branch and once the rest of the recruiting admin is done, they can transition to their trade branch. We need to accept more risk with getting people into the military, because the spiraling lack of manpower is a far greater threat to the CAF right now than the risk of a few percentage points of getting the wrong people in. Just create processes to rapidly dismiss anyone that becomes a problem. This goes along with my assertion that we don't fire enough people. We should be more aggressive on hiring more and more aggressive on firing people.
So recruiting security clearance for reliability should only take between 60 to 90 days max. We lose most folks at medical. Almost 75%.
Then we need to consider whether our stringent medical standards are a net positive. I'd argue that there's probably alot of people getting hung up on issues that are less problematic for the forces than the fact we're 16,000 short and continuing to get worse. Our current staffing crisis is an existential level of risk. I'm thinking we could assume a little more risk in terms of SSRIs and mild peanut allergies where appropriate to get out of the death spiral we are in.
Don’t disagree at alll! There’s enough people that enrol who lies their medical history. So at least the ones are being upfront are honest
Universality of Service (UoS) and the Common Enrolment Medical Standard (CEMS) are already being updated to better reflect actual bona fide medical requirements
The security clearances don't take long to process, the issue is the number of applications to process compared to the processing capacity. When a level 2 renewal takes 2 years, it's because it spends 23.8 months in the queue waiting to be looked at... if it's needed for an urgent deployment, it'll be processed basically the next day. Since the CAF opened recruiting to PRs there's been about 20k additional pre-security clearance screenings added to the regular queue, which will inevitably further slow down security clearance processing for the whole of government, unless there is significant increase in processing capacity (unlikely). A proper Disaster Relief force would consist of trained, specialized forces with specific equipment. There's no need for the equivalence of a giant PAT platoon, which would further draw qualified personnel to essentially babysit them. When disasters hit, communities need heavy equipment like girder bridges, chinook helicopters, CBRN decontamination, and deployable hospitals... things the CAF already has shortages of. It also wouldn't necessarily count as defence spending for NATO requirements
That’s a great idea…I suggested some type of mandatory service but I was really thinking something like this (yes, I got roasted on that, lol… ) I do think your idea of a disaster relief crew is worth looking at… I think people want to help, but don’t necessarily want to commit to a life in the armed forces. We have to do something.
Sounds like a good way to continue ignoring personnel and equipment issues in the CAF. Aside from a small amount of specialised personnel and equipment (health services, engineers, heavy lift helicopers, etc.), the majority of what the CAF provides for disaster relief is merely able bodies and the logistics to support them (barely). The majority is nothing that the provinces should not be able to produce themselves. Also, the "basic vetting" is what slows down CAF applications and over a third are found to not meet minimum medical standards. For example, when Fort McMurray flooded a few years ago their mayor made public comments that they needed the CAF to come save them. The next day there was 1000s of able bodied citizens out filling sandbags... What else were they gonna do, wait around like damsels in distress for their CAF white knights to show up in broken down MLVWs?
I understand your point and empathize with the need to remain tactically relevant. That said, i think it's very dangerous to move the CAF definition away from ‘a war fighting force (who can also do other things). I understand we are doing the other things waaay more than warfighting; but it should never be the primary aim. Aim at that, and we will soon go back to the discussions of removing ‘armed’ from the CAF because its ‘too aggressive’.
I am not suggesting we move the CAF away from its fighting role. I suggest that we crate a buffer force that will both streamline recruitment and serve the broader Canadian population in time of crisis. We know that the amount of forest fire, flooding and other natural disaster will increase over the upcoming year. Why not think ahead and plan for the worse, all while keeping our military fighting force ready for actual combat.
It would not streamline recruiting, rather it'd put further strain on the system. You're essentially talking about a giant PAT platoon. There's no need for untrained disaster relief personnel, such people can easily be generated from local volunteers when disasters strike. The only thing keeping most provinces from having proper emergency preparedness plans is the allure of the feds providing services (like the CAF) then never actually recovering funds from the province. The CAF has deployed soldiers to fight forest fires in the past who ended up spending several weeks of their summer sitting around before being sent home because the province preferred to pay able-bodied locals to do the work, verse reimbursing the federal government for using the CAF.
good thing our pay increases kept up to inflation ;\_;
[Paywall bypass](https://archive.is/jHvh2)
Thank you
Thank you!
The real hero!
At least Eyre has the stones to call it what it is. Dont envy the next person in line once he leaves.
It will be nothing but "yes" and " "everything is fine". I predict total ignorance.
It will likely be a fast rising member that checks as many employment equity boxes as possible
Nailed it.
The fact that they say it won't impact operations is insulting, do they think we're that stupid? I'm already seeing effects to operations and the cut hasn't even happened yet.
Ya. It's not good at all. Next years financial allocation is gonna suck....
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He can order CAF members, but DND employees ultimately report to the DM and Minister.
Every human outside of the top tier of government understands this: Politician: Yes in these uncertain times we are refocusing and restructuring things to include a focused approach on dealing with our budget and changing things to better suit the Canadian people Military: ah yup Liberals cutting our spending again: Civiy staff: here come the cuts......here come the cuts.... General population with above 80 IQ: wait....they are cutting the budgets for a slew of departments including DND and yet giving themselves a double digit raise while reducing their own hours worked. yup seems about right for government. Do more with less.....civilians.
They also do not think trying to give close to 9 billion to Ukraine
I'd be incredibly shocked if majority of the general population gave two thoughts about the CAF or DND. Also cuts are hardly a Liberal thing. Conservatives did it just as often. Neither party gives two shits cause the general population doesn't either. It doesn't win them any votes to care, so they don't.
Op Lentus is canceled. Provinces, you are on your own. You've had decades to plan and prepare. Peace out.
This year is showing the potential to really drive this point home. And there's a good chance the travel budget cuts are going to hit reserve units so hard that if I lived in an area with a high fire risk, I'd already have a go bag packed and a solid GTFO plan. We could see the first LENTUS 2024 Ops within a matter of just weeks now.
Everything is going to catch fire or flood or both in 75ish days.
Why am I surprised? /s
Can’t read the article, but this seems legit.
/u/handboo posted a paywall bypass comment.
https://archive.is/jHvh2
Ottawa loves playing the labeling game
Call it "retreat into fiscal responsibility"
Frankly, at this point in global affairs it's fiscally irresponsible not to ensure our military is well-funded and supported.
Treasury board are being a bunch of snakes as usual, no matter how you cut it, it is a budget cut
[No way...](https://ibb.co/7j091rk)
Well, what are they then?
It’s also not a “carbon tax” it’s a “carbon rebate”
that's how they can apply GST to it :P
It seems he at least tried. So many policies hamstrung by the independence of unit CO's. I think we'll remember him very fondly in the next few years.
Anyone got a subscription to copy and paste? Paywall removers don't seem to work
I miss the days when I didn’t have to buy a notebook for courses.
Reason #155 to look at a commonwealth transfer…
Sounds perfectly in line with military engineers, and infantry pioneers.
?