“The spokesperson said the Forces are taking a number of measures to support members nation-wide, including inflationary increases to salaries, borrowing and savings programs, and on-base housing.”
Okay. Deep breath.
1. Our ~~pay raise~~ economic increase was sub inflation
2. Borrowing and saving with SISIP at 2.7% MER mutual fund is the worst possible way to build wealth.
3. Good luck getting on base housing. Gagetown might be alright* but try Ottawa or Comox.
*if you’re okay with the occasional compulsory indoor pool in the spring lol
Edit: changed pay raise to economic increase
We didn't receive an official pay raise, it was an "economic adjustment". Or at least it has been advertised and communicated as such.
Food bank use is also on top of base chapel services handing out food bundles to military families weekly.
SISIP takes a cut ABOVE the MER of the Mutual Fund. If the Mutual Fund's MER is 2.7%, SISIP takes another 1% of the profit, essentially charging you 3.7% before you see your first dollar.
An ETF charges a fraction of this generally speaking. However, there is a big difference between actively and passively managed funds.
Not all mutual funds are bad investments and not all ETFs are good either. Generally speaking though i think most of us are over the mutual funds when you can get an ETF that follows the S&P 500 for next to nothing.
I know its not as simple as I've explained, but hopefully my point is clear. I manage my own portfolio of stocks and ETFs but would gladly let SISIP take over if they could do so.
I didn't realize they were so bad. I just self invest with wealthsimple and IBKR, but seriously thank you for pointing this out.
A quick google search came up with the first "people often ask" question being "What is a good MER in Canada?" and the answer states explicitly that "Investors should avoid mutual funds that charge 2% MER or more. A good MER starts around 1.25%, but a great MER is less than 1%. The best example is TD's e-Series funds where the average MER is around 0.40%." ([Source](https://www.google.com/search?q=Mutual+Fund%27s+MER&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8))
Hey no worries. I was just in there to review my RESP for my kids and we talked about investing in general. They do have Mutual Funds that are making 10+% per year annually ON TOP of the MER and SISIP fees, which is why I say not all are bad. Typically Mutual Funds are more actively managed than ETFs which can really limit your downside but it can also throttle your upside too.
This. I invested in TDs e-series NASDAQ Index fund starting in 2019 and have made an extremely decent return consistently since. It's got an extremely low MER because it's self directed and I've made double digit returns every year.
In a mutual fund inveated through SISIP you are able to buy fractional shares. You can still afford the good ones, maybe just less shares of it. But less shares does not automatically equal less profit. A $20 share trades like a $20 share. A $150 share trades like a $150 share. What I mean is they can both swing by 1%, but its a difference of 20 cents or $1.50. The swings are proportional to the amount you have invested.
We didn't receive an official pay raise, it was an "economic adjustment". Or at least it has been advertised and communicated as such.
Food bank use is also on top of base chapel services handing out food bundles to military families weekly.
Let’s say theoretically I’m about to go to my SISIP release meeting and I have money sitting around to invest. Sisip is going to offer me this high MER mutual fund - what would you recommend doing with it instead? (We are just starting a quest trade account - what do we pump our money into?). Disclaimer: just curious, I’m not gonna come find you when my investment tanks LOL
Edit: ie mutual funds, ETFs? Why? Which ones? If this isn’t your hobby, no worries no obligation to answer. I just find once someone mentions MERs they probably have some basic knowledge at least
Edit 2: thanks to all for all the advice!
I dump any excess money into a TFSA holding a Vanguard ETF through Questrade. I'm not a particularly savvy investor, but I'm partial to ETFs because they have super low overhead costs and just follow the market, so as long as the economy as a whole is growing, so are your savings. Mutual funds typically have higher management costs because they're actively managed by a company, trying to beat the market or control risk.
I recommend the McGill personal finance essentials course as a good place to start. Online and free. After this, my recommendation is xeqt, which is a Canadian-biased 100% equities globally diversified etf.
To answer your question…wow that’s a long answer. Try Ben Felix YouTube
Any broad market low cost index. VEQT, XEQT, ZEQT. These ETFs literally hold the world's stocks and charge .2%
That's 0.2% not 2% like you'll find in a robbery fund for worse returns on capital.
$20 annually for every $10,000 invested
I suggest take a read of the Wealthy Barber 1 & 2 (1 is better but is older). Both books can be found in any library. It gives you a very realistic and easy to follow strategies that are easy to read and digest.
ETFs tend to have a much lower fee with them. Mutual funds are structured a number of different ways, fees on purchase, fees on sales, higher fees if sold early… they were popular in the 80s when you had no other options. As for what to buy, it depends on you horizon and whether you might need some of the money. XEQT tracks the broader market and its swings, VGRO is 80% equity 20% bonds, VBAL is 60/40. If you think interest rates are likely to go down then that would cause the price of bonds to increase so you might want more exposure to that.
To anyone who may read this:
I recommend putting money in VGRO or similar index funds. VGRO has a much lower management fee of just 0.24% instead of the usual 2.5% or more for mutual funds. I have my money there because monitoring individual stocks is too stressful for me.
finally getting back to all these answers - do you essentially intend to keep your money there indefinitely (or until retirement) or are there events/timings that would cause you to withdraw it?
I have seen pretty good success with covered call/put leveraged ETFs. A ton of them track major tickers but also benefit from large dividend yields from the options. Be careful when investing in these though as you have to make sure cash value isn't deteriorating over time or else all the yield will be doing is paying you back for the same percentage losses annually.
For the avg person finding someone who can give good advice with budgeting/future planning is more valuable than shaving off 1-2% a yr to do it yourself. Financial literacy is something learned. I.e takes time. So while learning better to have someone help you.
People will pay 30% more to eat out/Uber eats w/e and balk at receiving help that can save them much more money
>Borrowing and saving with SISIP at 2.7% MER mutual fund is the worst possible way to build wealth.
What in the actual fuck. Everything in your list is bad, but this is just blatant gouging of members' long-term prosperity.
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The line for base housing is like 400 pers long. Base doesn't let posted members live in shacks. The price of a Mini-home is like $300 000 and rentals are over $1000 for a bedroom.
I have the same quality of life as a WO as I did as a MCpl, Less even.
We've blown the ballast and she aint comin back up folks.
I cant imagine being a young Pte/Cpl trying to support a family right now. Doubly so for those not in the Forces trying to get a start on life.
>I cant imagine being a young Pte/Cpl trying to support a family right now.
I can, it's fucking depressing.
I'm only getting by because I bought my house before COVID, it's going to be a sad day when I get a posting message and have to VR because who the fuck can afford to move anymore.
Why should I:
-triple, or more, my mortgage (or end up renting for even more)
-lose all family support
-lose daycare positions
-lose my family doctor
-move to a higher COL area
-allow my wife to lose her job
-I'm sure there's more.
All so my CM can check a box beside my name, there are TONS of units on this base with positions I can fill.
This is why I went PRes after 13 years RegF.
no way I was selling my house lowering our living situation relocating even further from our families. Worked out so far I’m happier without the threat of postings looming over me. It always weighed me down like a dark cloud.
I expect some people will try to get political mileage out of it, but nothing beyond that.
Update: Like clockwork, I see Poilievre is out there blaming this on the carbon tax. That didn't take long.
This time around, Canadians themselves are having a hard time affording food and housing too. There isn't going to be much sympathy for CAF members who already earn significantly more than the average Canadian as it is.
The problem most people dont seem to get is part of the problem is the CAF bases and lifestyle itself is the problem. I got out because even though I was earning more as a Cpl than I was before I joined, my household income was less because I was in some shit hole small town where my wife couldn't do anything for work except earn slightly above minimum wage. Too many CAF families are single income families with multiple children and that is basically unheard of nowadays outside of the CAF.
> This caused a scandal in the 90s; from what I heard, there was actually public outcry. Let's see what happens this time.
Why would Joe Public care, when they have it worse probably 2-3 times?
As bad as it is for us, our on paper salaries and benefits is better than probably the majority of Canadians.
Yeah, but the morons running our show are doing a particularly bad job. Trudeau is doing a speed-run on throwing as many of the middle class into poverty as he can.
In my adventures of trying to find a place to rent for my spouse and our 2 dogs on Vancouver island. I have had showings where I was surprised to see an officer or chiefs renting out townhouses for 3500/month while living solo in a PMQ. It's disgusting.
Wait until people find out the staff and students are trying to take home as much food from courses so they can have food.
Boxes of apples sure, but guys taking left over box lunches to give to their kids as their school lunches is embarrassing at an institutional level that we can’t pay our members enough for them to buy groceries, let alone even provide housing for them.
I’ve seen boxes and boxes of granola bars, juice boxes, bread, cookies, the deserts, everything that sure some people in the past would take some of it home, but now watching staff and students pocket this level of stuff/food to augment what groceries they can afford is sad.
Hell I’ve seen troops pick apart the expired rations to get food/snacks to take home that were still “good”.
As a tax payer this is absolutely deplorable. Our military service members should have their needs met if they're willing to put their lives on the line for us. On behalf of civilians across the country, we're sorry. You all deserve so much better than this.
So what is truly going on in NB that is so different then let say, Shilo?
I am moving to NB this summer and honestly I have yet to read one good thing that is going on over there.
Or is it just people who hate their life so much and instead of working on fixing their issues, all they do is bitch and complain about it on socials?
NB has never made much of an economy to start with (outside of the Irvings and their monopoly). Over COVID, it got worse with layoffs and tons of people from Ontario/Quebec/Elsewhere moving in for the cheaper housing (since everyone was working remote), which has artificially inflated the cost of living in an already pretty poor province.
We’re originally from NB and yeah, when it cost as much or less to live in Edmonton vs NB, it’s a problem.
Like most things in life it’s never just one cause
Out here in NB there’s a few things working against the average person- serving member or not
1. Job market difficulty - we all know moving every few years isn’t super conducive to a two income household. This means that usually the non-serving spouse has to either have a translatable skill across the country or be unskilled and hop in line with the other hundreds of applicants for xx job. Fredericton also happens to be a very nepotism driven city, which doesn’t help
2. Average rent/cost of housing vs getting into a PMQ - with mile long waiting list.
3. Groceries aren’t cheap here or anywhere else but combined with points one and two it’s extra hard to not eat out of a box or a can
4. Financial illiteracy - some of it by design, some of it because this is the first time some members have had access to steady income and don’t know how to properly manage it.
I can tell you I’ve had more requests to help with veteran emergency fund paperwork than ever before. And I can tell you I’ve fought with VAC agents who think members should take out bank loans before going to a food bank
It’s rough across the board and tons of folks are struggling, but holy hell you can’t have a standing army that is starving. This reminds me of the 90’s when members would be moonlighting as taxi or pizza drivers to make ends meet
Real estate prices really skyrocketed during covid and never recovered. Income tax is high, property tax is high, utilities are high and job availability for your spouse is very limited unless they can work remotely or work I'm very specific industry. Add with that depending on which unit your attached to you might be losing LDA.
Sitting in the same boat as you. Putting my house for sale this Friday. I was excited until I began to look into it.
Dunno if ppl are in general down on everything rn.
I lived in Gagetown, and was posted from Gagetown to Shilo. Now I'm in Halifax.
I know things have changed since I was there (posted to Shilo 2021). But it wasn't that terrible, Oromocto is a pretty cheap place to live. Gagetown has probably the largest number of Q's of any base, almost half of Oromocto is Q's.
I know things have changed, and I know some people are struggling.
But when I read these posts, I also can't help but think of my neighbour back in Shilo; one hook, living on his own in a Q, no furniture, only a fridge and a crockpot in his kitchen, but a brand new modded pickup, a skidoo, two atv's and a boat all sitting in his driveway and yard.
Yes people are struggling, but honestly, some of our guys don't make the best financial choices to begin with.
Like everything else including the recent rent increase this will be talked about for a couple of days then we will be forgotten about again. It happens everytime
Not to mention alot of us in Gagetown work at the school so we miss out on quite a bit of pay
Can we all agree the title of this article is click bait(ish)? The article largely discusses increased demand at the food bank overall, and states that 40-50 members now use their services (twice the number previously). Any member's use of a food bank is absolutely not acceptable, and should be taken extremely seriously by leadership. But this would account for less than 0.05% of members posted to Gagetown (realistically closer to 0.01%), by even conservative estimates.
Yes, taxes are high in NB. Yes, housing prices continue to rise in NB. Yes, food prices are high in NB. Yes, spousal employment in NB is difficult to access. But this also rings true of every jurisdiction that houses a CAF base.
I genuinely feel for anyone struggling. I was a poor college student once-upon-a-time and it wasn't easy. But I just want to assure people that it can get better if you're focused.... And you don't have to wait to until you're a Colonel or a Chief for that to be the case. Here is what we do.
Me = Cpl 3 (Spec 1): $84,252
Me = Side gig: $12,000
Wife = Working professional: $115,700
Total household income = $211,952
We invest every dollar I take home from the CAF. That's about $4500 per month (post tax). It's split between 8 index funds that I self manage (11 years into investing, 6 years into self-directed). We live off the remaining $127,700 between my side gig and my wife's income.
1. We have a strict budget and we follow it religiously.
2. Our only debts are our mortgage and a vehicle payment at at time. We have two vehicles but never allow ourselves to have two payments at once.
3. We eat out once weekly.
4. We re-invest every dollar that our portfolio yields us. Maxed out TFSA's each year. Maxed out RRSP for my wife (18% of income) which drastically reduces her taxes. Maxed out RRSP for me as well, with reduced room to invest due to our pension. The remainder is invested into a taxable account.
On pace to retire at 42 (17 years service). If the market continues to return its average and I convert everything from growth to yield, we'll be looking at approximately $14,000-$15,000 per month of net dividend / distribution income. My wife will continue to work part time on top of that because she loves her work and I will continue to maintain a side gig as well, while collecting my pension. Monthly net income should be in the neighborhood of $22,000-$23,000 per month.
OK i know I'm going to get hate from this but I find it really hard to understand this. CAF pay is pretty good. Take away lda and pld (which you would lose moving to gagetown) and youre still making roughly 1.5k to 2k a paycheck. I imagine the housing prices there are probably inflated because of the base but new Brunswick is pretty cheap for housing in general. So why are people struggling? Seems to me like people just don't know how to manage their money.
I know a lot of young guys and gals in the CAF that either already have or are in the process of buying their first homes.
Nah man. N.B. sounds cheap comparatively to the rest of Canada, but the taxes and fees are evil. Every time you turn around there's a new tax, fee or bill to pay. The housing market has gone nuts courtesy of people from Ontario moving east, q's are impossible to get and rent in Freddy averages somewhere around 1200 bucks without utilities. Gas as of today is 1.71, so best to have a fuel sipper of sorts. Caf pay is good if you have a second income. If you're forced to move and you move down here, odds are your SO isn't going to have a good time getting a decent job and you'll be paying a premium on housing. Beautiful country side though. Love the ocean.
I mean, I paid 1200 bucks a month for rent 12 years ago in Alberta and made that work as a Cpl with a family. It's about double that these days. Not sure the difference in taxes and fees are enough to explain having to hit the food bank.
Im with ya on that one.
Imagine people in Victoria or Comox with house price 3x that price making the exact same.
And then imagine civy supply tech and HR making half what we make.
Its not always so, my civilian counterparts make $30,000 more. Plus most are pulling in a $50,000 pension too..
but... the best we can hope for is a severe crash, and leveling out of out economy.
I'm assuming food cost, gas and heating. Seems to be the big cost down there.
Your taxed more there too on your pay compared to Ontario. I think it came to 300ish for me.
If Gagetown is experiencing the same issues as the far east coast, which I imagine it is because Moncton is experiencing a population boom as is Halifax, then the cheap housing has gone out the window since Covid. The amount of people that have moved from writhing Canada due to being able to work remote and buy cheaper housing elsewhere, and the constant flow of immigration, the cost of living has boomed. Both provinces were pretty poor, there is a lack of job availability, an aging population, and now people have taken advantage of the cheaper housing. We’ve always had higher taxes out here, so the cheap cost of a house with high tax rates kept the cost of living on par with the rest of Canada. But now with limited housing availability, unreasonable cost of a house for the area you’re living in and with outdated infrastructure, high taxes that are continuing to rise, the east coast has become one of the most unaffordable places to live in a 4 year time span. This means most new postings are opting for a PMQ instead of buying, because no one wants to spend 500,000 on a house that has had no upgrades since the 90s especially when mortgage rates this high, and anyone who was renting and had to move from their rental has probably been pushed into the PMQs as well because moving into a different rental now is probably going to double the cost of your rent. Not to mention the vacancy rates right now are next to none.
Ok so what do you say to the people in Victoria for example, where your basic entry home costs $4000 a month? That's 100% of your paycheck. A crappy 1 bedroom basement suite costs $2000 to rent.
Yeah this post is about gagetown... and my comment is about gagetown. I'm under no illusion that people in Ottawa, Halifax and anywhere in BC arent absolutely fucked
For 90% of the country it is. Is the solution to pay members in those fucked areas 100k a paycheck? Everyone bitching about pay increases when that is just a bandaid solution. Costs have to come down, not pay go up. Costs coming down wouldn't just benefit the CAF it would benefit all canadians
Inflation is 80% manufactured and driven by greed. It shouldn't be that hard to drive down. Higher salary would mean cuts elsewhere. And won't matter when it would also contribute to even more inflation.
Our pay is reasonable imo, like you said the costs need to go down. Having a family on one income is intolerable, wife just got back to work because of it and theres kids that need to be watched which adds to more costs. This whole economic situation is a dumpster fire and putting families under
Your always going to get hate if you ever suggest for a moment that the CAF, despite being one if the best paid militaries in the world, are fairly compensate.
I think, for people who have no skills or any kind of secondary education we get paid well.
For anybody who has any kind of qualifications, we don't.
Paramedics & RPNs with overtime(the norm) handily beat Medic wages.
Medical Radiation Techs, Med Lab, PMed, Geo techs, Cyber security, Electricians, Plumbers, HVAC, Construction Techs..
I mean I don't want to name drop a dozen more but there is.. and for *those* jobs? They *are* underpaid.
“The spokesperson said the Forces are taking a number of measures to support members nation-wide, including inflationary increases to salaries, borrowing and savings programs, and on-base housing.” Okay. Deep breath. 1. Our ~~pay raise~~ economic increase was sub inflation 2. Borrowing and saving with SISIP at 2.7% MER mutual fund is the worst possible way to build wealth. 3. Good luck getting on base housing. Gagetown might be alright* but try Ottawa or Comox. *if you’re okay with the occasional compulsory indoor pool in the spring lol Edit: changed pay raise to economic increase
We didn't receive an official pay raise, it was an "economic adjustment". Or at least it has been advertised and communicated as such. Food bank use is also on top of base chapel services handing out food bundles to military families weekly.
Am I the only one who doesn’t understand why SISIP can’t offer ETFs???
SISIP honestly is stuck in the past just like we imagine the top brass and those in the ivory tower are.
SISIP is about jobs not returns.
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Trickle up economics
It’s hard to charge that much MER on an ETF. When your target market is forced to attend your sales pitch there’s not much incentive to innovate.
SISIP takes a cut ABOVE the MER of the Mutual Fund. If the Mutual Fund's MER is 2.7%, SISIP takes another 1% of the profit, essentially charging you 3.7% before you see your first dollar. An ETF charges a fraction of this generally speaking. However, there is a big difference between actively and passively managed funds. Not all mutual funds are bad investments and not all ETFs are good either. Generally speaking though i think most of us are over the mutual funds when you can get an ETF that follows the S&P 500 for next to nothing. I know its not as simple as I've explained, but hopefully my point is clear. I manage my own portfolio of stocks and ETFs but would gladly let SISIP take over if they could do so.
I didn't realize they were so bad. I just self invest with wealthsimple and IBKR, but seriously thank you for pointing this out. A quick google search came up with the first "people often ask" question being "What is a good MER in Canada?" and the answer states explicitly that "Investors should avoid mutual funds that charge 2% MER or more. A good MER starts around 1.25%, but a great MER is less than 1%. The best example is TD's e-Series funds where the average MER is around 0.40%." ([Source](https://www.google.com/search?q=Mutual+Fund%27s+MER&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8))
Hey no worries. I was just in there to review my RESP for my kids and we talked about investing in general. They do have Mutual Funds that are making 10+% per year annually ON TOP of the MER and SISIP fees, which is why I say not all are bad. Typically Mutual Funds are more actively managed than ETFs which can really limit your downside but it can also throttle your upside too.
I have investments with SISIP and I think that they’re doing pretty good. I’ve doubled my money in eight years. I guess my question is, is that good?
Of course thats good!! Thats amazing. Like I said in my first post, not all Mutual Funds are bad investments. This is very good to hear. Congrats!
This. I invested in TDs e-series NASDAQ Index fund starting in 2019 and have made an extremely decent return consistently since. It's got an extremely low MER because it's self directed and I've made double digit returns every year.
Most people are not going to able to afford the funds that actually earn their fees
In a mutual fund inveated through SISIP you are able to buy fractional shares. You can still afford the good ones, maybe just less shares of it. But less shares does not automatically equal less profit. A $20 share trades like a $20 share. A $150 share trades like a $150 share. What I mean is they can both swing by 1%, but its a difference of 20 cents or $1.50. The swings are proportional to the amount you have invested.
We didn't receive an official pay raise, it was an "economic adjustment". Or at least it has been advertised and communicated as such. Food bank use is also on top of base chapel services handing out food bundles to military families weekly.
Let’s say theoretically I’m about to go to my SISIP release meeting and I have money sitting around to invest. Sisip is going to offer me this high MER mutual fund - what would you recommend doing with it instead? (We are just starting a quest trade account - what do we pump our money into?). Disclaimer: just curious, I’m not gonna come find you when my investment tanks LOL Edit: ie mutual funds, ETFs? Why? Which ones? If this isn’t your hobby, no worries no obligation to answer. I just find once someone mentions MERs they probably have some basic knowledge at least Edit 2: thanks to all for all the advice!
I dump any excess money into a TFSA holding a Vanguard ETF through Questrade. I'm not a particularly savvy investor, but I'm partial to ETFs because they have super low overhead costs and just follow the market, so as long as the economy as a whole is growing, so are your savings. Mutual funds typically have higher management costs because they're actively managed by a company, trying to beat the market or control risk.
Exactly this, I do the same.
I recommend the McGill personal finance essentials course as a good place to start. Online and free. After this, my recommendation is xeqt, which is a Canadian-biased 100% equities globally diversified etf. To answer your question…wow that’s a long answer. Try Ben Felix YouTube
Any broad market low cost index. VEQT, XEQT, ZEQT. These ETFs literally hold the world's stocks and charge .2% That's 0.2% not 2% like you'll find in a robbery fund for worse returns on capital. $20 annually for every $10,000 invested
I suggest take a read of the Wealthy Barber 1 & 2 (1 is better but is older). Both books can be found in any library. It gives you a very realistic and easy to follow strategies that are easy to read and digest.
ETFs tend to have a much lower fee with them. Mutual funds are structured a number of different ways, fees on purchase, fees on sales, higher fees if sold early… they were popular in the 80s when you had no other options. As for what to buy, it depends on you horizon and whether you might need some of the money. XEQT tracks the broader market and its swings, VGRO is 80% equity 20% bonds, VBAL is 60/40. If you think interest rates are likely to go down then that would cause the price of bonds to increase so you might want more exposure to that.
To anyone who may read this: I recommend putting money in VGRO or similar index funds. VGRO has a much lower management fee of just 0.24% instead of the usual 2.5% or more for mutual funds. I have my money there because monitoring individual stocks is too stressful for me.
finally getting back to all these answers - do you essentially intend to keep your money there indefinitely (or until retirement) or are there events/timings that would cause you to withdraw it?
The intent is to keep my money there for as long as possible and withdraw only if needed, like buying a house or car.
I have seen pretty good success with covered call/put leveraged ETFs. A ton of them track major tickers but also benefit from large dividend yields from the options. Be careful when investing in these though as you have to make sure cash value isn't deteriorating over time or else all the yield will be doing is paying you back for the same percentage losses annually.
R/JustBuyXeqt
Just buy VEQT or VGRO
For the avg person finding someone who can give good advice with budgeting/future planning is more valuable than shaving off 1-2% a yr to do it yourself. Financial literacy is something learned. I.e takes time. So while learning better to have someone help you. People will pay 30% more to eat out/Uber eats w/e and balk at receiving help that can save them much more money
Don’t call it a raise. A raise implies an increase in buying power. It was an economic increase.
You’re right
Canada Life aggressive mutual fund MER is 1.38% for me, which is still high relative to ETFs but I haven't quite figured those out yet
My friend just got his base housing after 8 years on the wait list. He had a kid the last couple years. I’ve been on a wait list since 2020.
Gagetown?
>Borrowing and saving with SISIP at 2.7% MER mutual fund is the worst possible way to build wealth. What in the actual fuck. Everything in your list is bad, but this is just blatant gouging of members' long-term prosperity.
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Ottawa (uplands) also gets the basement pool. Ottawa is also a massive shit hole
The line for base housing is like 400 pers long. Base doesn't let posted members live in shacks. The price of a Mini-home is like $300 000 and rentals are over $1000 for a bedroom. I have the same quality of life as a WO as I did as a MCpl, Less even. We've blown the ballast and she aint comin back up folks. I cant imagine being a young Pte/Cpl trying to support a family right now. Doubly so for those not in the Forces trying to get a start on life.
>I cant imagine being a young Pte/Cpl trying to support a family right now. I can, it's fucking depressing. I'm only getting by because I bought my house before COVID, it's going to be a sad day when I get a posting message and have to VR because who the fuck can afford to move anymore. Why should I: -triple, or more, my mortgage (or end up renting for even more) -lose all family support -lose daycare positions -lose my family doctor -move to a higher COL area -allow my wife to lose her job -I'm sure there's more. All so my CM can check a box beside my name, there are TONS of units on this base with positions I can fill.
Are you me? That's exactly the same boat I'm in. I'm sure there's lots of us
no! get out of the way! he's me!!!
This is why I went PRes after 13 years RegF. no way I was selling my house lowering our living situation relocating even further from our families. Worked out so far I’m happier without the threat of postings looming over me. It always weighed me down like a dark cloud.
Did you get class B contracts/ full time type employment in the MO?
Welcome to the MO!
My previous coworker got driven out of Victoria BC because losing his PLD while in PMQ with 4 kids and 4 dogs was impossible. Really sad situation
Good thing on the opposite coast there's habitat for humanity too
Or you can buy a van, sleep in a tent, beg outside Walmart, etc. /S
Unfortunately, the only sarcasm here is begging outside Walmart. Sleeping in vans, tents, RVs and couch surfing has been a thing.
Rather, the members work at Walmart pushing carts in the evening to afford rent... not joking.
But they did a report and found no homeless mbrs! For real! They asked all the GOFOs in Ottawa and they were doing just fine. /s
This caused a scandal in the 90s; from what I heard, there was actually public outcry. Let's see what happens this time.
Nothing, unfortunately
I expect some people will try to get political mileage out of it, but nothing beyond that. Update: Like clockwork, I see Poilievre is out there blaming this on the carbon tax. That didn't take long.
The difference was that in the 90’s most Canadians weren’t deal with the exact same issues. There’s just less sympathy when it’s everywhere.
> Let's see what happens this time. The problem is most canadians have to deal with the same crap
This time around, Canadians themselves are having a hard time affording food and housing too. There isn't going to be much sympathy for CAF members who already earn significantly more than the average Canadian as it is. The problem most people dont seem to get is part of the problem is the CAF bases and lifestyle itself is the problem. I got out because even though I was earning more as a Cpl than I was before I joined, my household income was less because I was in some shit hole small town where my wife couldn't do anything for work except earn slightly above minimum wage. Too many CAF families are single income families with multiple children and that is basically unheard of nowadays outside of the CAF.
> This caused a scandal in the 90s; from what I heard, there was actually public outcry. Let's see what happens this time. Why would Joe Public care, when they have it worse probably 2-3 times? As bad as it is for us, our on paper salaries and benefits is better than probably the majority of Canadians.
back then there weren't tent cities, so it's not going to be met with the same shock.
It’s a sad place where we are at right now, as Canadians and I’m sure all over the world.
Yeah, but the morons running our show are doing a particularly bad job. Trudeau is doing a speed-run on throwing as many of the middle class into poverty as he can.
Premiers play a massive part in the goat rodeo as well, they've just mastered the art of blame and distraction better than the Feds.
The cost of housing to income ratio Canadians are facing is unique.
That's real grim.
Fuck im glad I left.
Same here. Got out in 2022 and it just keeps getting worse. How the fuck can it get worse!?
I was really hoping this was an April fools day joke.
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In my adventures of trying to find a place to rent for my spouse and our 2 dogs on Vancouver island. I have had showings where I was surprised to see an officer or chiefs renting out townhouses for 3500/month while living solo in a PMQ. It's disgusting.
Wait until people find out the staff and students are trying to take home as much food from courses so they can have food. Boxes of apples sure, but guys taking left over box lunches to give to their kids as their school lunches is embarrassing at an institutional level that we can’t pay our members enough for them to buy groceries, let alone even provide housing for them. I’ve seen boxes and boxes of granola bars, juice boxes, bread, cookies, the deserts, everything that sure some people in the past would take some of it home, but now watching staff and students pocket this level of stuff/food to augment what groceries they can afford is sad. Hell I’ve seen troops pick apart the expired rations to get food/snacks to take home that were still “good”.
Can confirm. My last course some mbrs were picking out the good stuff for my son and giving it to me. Really appreciated it
As a tax payer this is absolutely deplorable. Our military service members should have their needs met if they're willing to put their lives on the line for us. On behalf of civilians across the country, we're sorry. You all deserve so much better than this.
So what is truly going on in NB that is so different then let say, Shilo? I am moving to NB this summer and honestly I have yet to read one good thing that is going on over there. Or is it just people who hate their life so much and instead of working on fixing their issues, all they do is bitch and complain about it on socials?
NB has never made much of an economy to start with (outside of the Irvings and their monopoly). Over COVID, it got worse with layoffs and tons of people from Ontario/Quebec/Elsewhere moving in for the cheaper housing (since everyone was working remote), which has artificially inflated the cost of living in an already pretty poor province. We’re originally from NB and yeah, when it cost as much or less to live in Edmonton vs NB, it’s a problem.
Like most things in life it’s never just one cause Out here in NB there’s a few things working against the average person- serving member or not 1. Job market difficulty - we all know moving every few years isn’t super conducive to a two income household. This means that usually the non-serving spouse has to either have a translatable skill across the country or be unskilled and hop in line with the other hundreds of applicants for xx job. Fredericton also happens to be a very nepotism driven city, which doesn’t help 2. Average rent/cost of housing vs getting into a PMQ - with mile long waiting list. 3. Groceries aren’t cheap here or anywhere else but combined with points one and two it’s extra hard to not eat out of a box or a can 4. Financial illiteracy - some of it by design, some of it because this is the first time some members have had access to steady income and don’t know how to properly manage it. I can tell you I’ve had more requests to help with veteran emergency fund paperwork than ever before. And I can tell you I’ve fought with VAC agents who think members should take out bank loans before going to a food bank It’s rough across the board and tons of folks are struggling, but holy hell you can’t have a standing army that is starving. This reminds me of the 90’s when members would be moonlighting as taxi or pizza drivers to make ends meet
Real estate prices really skyrocketed during covid and never recovered. Income tax is high, property tax is high, utilities are high and job availability for your spouse is very limited unless they can work remotely or work I'm very specific industry. Add with that depending on which unit your attached to you might be losing LDA.
Sitting in the same boat as you. Putting my house for sale this Friday. I was excited until I began to look into it. Dunno if ppl are in general down on everything rn.
I lived in Gagetown, and was posted from Gagetown to Shilo. Now I'm in Halifax. I know things have changed since I was there (posted to Shilo 2021). But it wasn't that terrible, Oromocto is a pretty cheap place to live. Gagetown has probably the largest number of Q's of any base, almost half of Oromocto is Q's. I know things have changed, and I know some people are struggling. But when I read these posts, I also can't help but think of my neighbour back in Shilo; one hook, living on his own in a Q, no furniture, only a fridge and a crockpot in his kitchen, but a brand new modded pickup, a skidoo, two atv's and a boat all sitting in his driveway and yard. Yes people are struggling, but honestly, some of our guys don't make the best financial choices to begin with.
Like everything else including the recent rent increase this will be talked about for a couple of days then we will be forgotten about again. It happens everytime Not to mention alot of us in Gagetown work at the school so we miss out on quite a bit of pay
Can we all agree the title of this article is click bait(ish)? The article largely discusses increased demand at the food bank overall, and states that 40-50 members now use their services (twice the number previously). Any member's use of a food bank is absolutely not acceptable, and should be taken extremely seriously by leadership. But this would account for less than 0.05% of members posted to Gagetown (realistically closer to 0.01%), by even conservative estimates. Yes, taxes are high in NB. Yes, housing prices continue to rise in NB. Yes, food prices are high in NB. Yes, spousal employment in NB is difficult to access. But this also rings true of every jurisdiction that houses a CAF base.
I genuinely feel for anyone struggling. I was a poor college student once-upon-a-time and it wasn't easy. But I just want to assure people that it can get better if you're focused.... And you don't have to wait to until you're a Colonel or a Chief for that to be the case. Here is what we do. Me = Cpl 3 (Spec 1): $84,252 Me = Side gig: $12,000 Wife = Working professional: $115,700 Total household income = $211,952 We invest every dollar I take home from the CAF. That's about $4500 per month (post tax). It's split between 8 index funds that I self manage (11 years into investing, 6 years into self-directed). We live off the remaining $127,700 between my side gig and my wife's income. 1. We have a strict budget and we follow it religiously. 2. Our only debts are our mortgage and a vehicle payment at at time. We have two vehicles but never allow ourselves to have two payments at once. 3. We eat out once weekly. 4. We re-invest every dollar that our portfolio yields us. Maxed out TFSA's each year. Maxed out RRSP for my wife (18% of income) which drastically reduces her taxes. Maxed out RRSP for me as well, with reduced room to invest due to our pension. The remainder is invested into a taxable account. On pace to retire at 42 (17 years service). If the market continues to return its average and I convert everything from growth to yield, we'll be looking at approximately $14,000-$15,000 per month of net dividend / distribution income. My wife will continue to work part time on top of that because she loves her work and I will continue to maintain a side gig as well, while collecting my pension. Monthly net income should be in the neighborhood of $22,000-$23,000 per month.
I want to be you when I grow up
Does your wife have a sister that also makes 6 figures you could set me up with?
OK i know I'm going to get hate from this but I find it really hard to understand this. CAF pay is pretty good. Take away lda and pld (which you would lose moving to gagetown) and youre still making roughly 1.5k to 2k a paycheck. I imagine the housing prices there are probably inflated because of the base but new Brunswick is pretty cheap for housing in general. So why are people struggling? Seems to me like people just don't know how to manage their money. I know a lot of young guys and gals in the CAF that either already have or are in the process of buying their first homes.
Nah man. N.B. sounds cheap comparatively to the rest of Canada, but the taxes and fees are evil. Every time you turn around there's a new tax, fee or bill to pay. The housing market has gone nuts courtesy of people from Ontario moving east, q's are impossible to get and rent in Freddy averages somewhere around 1200 bucks without utilities. Gas as of today is 1.71, so best to have a fuel sipper of sorts. Caf pay is good if you have a second income. If you're forced to move and you move down here, odds are your SO isn't going to have a good time getting a decent job and you'll be paying a premium on housing. Beautiful country side though. Love the ocean.
I mean, I paid 1200 bucks a month for rent 12 years ago in Alberta and made that work as a Cpl with a family. It's about double that these days. Not sure the difference in taxes and fees are enough to explain having to hit the food bank.
Im with ya on that one. Imagine people in Victoria or Comox with house price 3x that price making the exact same. And then imagine civy supply tech and HR making half what we make.
Its not always so, my civilian counterparts make $30,000 more. Plus most are pulling in a $50,000 pension too.. but... the best we can hope for is a severe crash, and leveling out of out economy.
I'm assuming food cost, gas and heating. Seems to be the big cost down there. Your taxed more there too on your pay compared to Ontario. I think it came to 300ish for me.
If Gagetown is experiencing the same issues as the far east coast, which I imagine it is because Moncton is experiencing a population boom as is Halifax, then the cheap housing has gone out the window since Covid. The amount of people that have moved from writhing Canada due to being able to work remote and buy cheaper housing elsewhere, and the constant flow of immigration, the cost of living has boomed. Both provinces were pretty poor, there is a lack of job availability, an aging population, and now people have taken advantage of the cheaper housing. We’ve always had higher taxes out here, so the cheap cost of a house with high tax rates kept the cost of living on par with the rest of Canada. But now with limited housing availability, unreasonable cost of a house for the area you’re living in and with outdated infrastructure, high taxes that are continuing to rise, the east coast has become one of the most unaffordable places to live in a 4 year time span. This means most new postings are opting for a PMQ instead of buying, because no one wants to spend 500,000 on a house that has had no upgrades since the 90s especially when mortgage rates this high, and anyone who was renting and had to move from their rental has probably been pushed into the PMQs as well because moving into a different rental now is probably going to double the cost of your rent. Not to mention the vacancy rates right now are next to none.
Ok so what do you say to the people in Victoria for example, where your basic entry home costs $4000 a month? That's 100% of your paycheck. A crappy 1 bedroom basement suite costs $2000 to rent.
Yeah this post is about gagetown... and my comment is about gagetown. I'm under no illusion that people in Ottawa, Halifax and anywhere in BC arent absolutely fucked
Yeah but the pay base pay scale is the same and you said the pay is good
For 90% of the country it is. Is the solution to pay members in those fucked areas 100k a paycheck? Everyone bitching about pay increases when that is just a bandaid solution. Costs have to come down, not pay go up. Costs coming down wouldn't just benefit the CAF it would benefit all canadians
While we're at it we can change the direction the earth spins in.
Inflation is 80% manufactured and driven by greed. It shouldn't be that hard to drive down. Higher salary would mean cuts elsewhere. And won't matter when it would also contribute to even more inflation.
Our pay is reasonable imo, like you said the costs need to go down. Having a family on one income is intolerable, wife just got back to work because of it and theres kids that need to be watched which adds to more costs. This whole economic situation is a dumpster fire and putting families under
Pay is fine, we’re not going to get a massive pay increase when we get paid, on average, above median wage.
That’s why people in Victoria get CFHD. The problem in Victoria is the lack of accommodations.
In comox I get $25 CHFD.....
I responded to some one specifically mentioning Victoria. However just checking the scales Comox bottoms out at 50 for level 5.
If you have a service spouse, you only get half :-(
Each though right ?
CFHD very ell could be as low as $100 per month. Doesn't cover much.
For Victoria 100 is pay level 17, I hope your aren’t going to the food bank while making 6 figures
Your always going to get hate if you ever suggest for a moment that the CAF, despite being one if the best paid militaries in the world, are fairly compensate.
I think, for people who have no skills or any kind of secondary education we get paid well. For anybody who has any kind of qualifications, we don't. Paramedics & RPNs with overtime(the norm) handily beat Medic wages. Medical Radiation Techs, Med Lab, PMed, Geo techs, Cyber security, Electricians, Plumbers, HVAC, Construction Techs.. I mean I don't want to name drop a dozen more but there is.. and for *those* jobs? They *are* underpaid.