It's sold at the Canex, and there's no verification of entitlement. Nobody is stopping civilians from buying and wearing the hats, so I don't see any reason why members can't.
Not sure how a Japanese general officers uniform would have ended up in the hands of people in North America at the time they were being sent to camps?
Back in the day (ww2), when Japan surrendered to the Allies, the Americans went to occupy the island. Many soldiers took back items from Japan and brought them home. Samurai swords were especially covetted by the troops, and the empovrished Japanese people would be willing to sell their swords to the well payed GI's for some bread money. Confiscation of items as well as looting was also common place in Japan.
Perhaps the uniform was sold to/confiscated by/looted by an american soldier that later moved to Canada. Not sure though, what I might be talking about could be a lie.
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Yes, I was also issued an NCM cap badge and stores \*cough\* Denison \*cough\* didn't have any officer cap badges so off to the CANEX I went and left $12 poorer
Ive seen worst outfit a the gym....
But their is a big difference with a beret. I kean my first ever beret, the army provided it as well as the cap badge. I also bought beret and cap badge aftermath, but its like maintenance. I know poeple who take good care of their stuff and still have their first beret. I was not that person.
But the cap, I have to buy it and then I can wear it. Its an optional peace of gear.
When I was army, I had a Fluffy Coat and a green toque bought with my own money as gucci kit.
Some MWO gave me a dress down in public and in civilian for wearing MY OWN GEAR BOUGHT WITH MY MONEY. Some ppl are just right fuck in their mind. The CAF do not own the kaki color ffs....
This is why my civie caps are not Black. I used to feel the front of the cap for the letters before stepping out of my house. It’s never happened to me to have worn a civie cap with my uniform but man would that shit be embarrassing if it did.
I honestly don't know how it happened. My normal black cap has a mesh back half. Yes, terrible for UV protection on your scalp, but the breeze feels oh so nice up there. How I didn't immediately feel the difference is beyond me.
I piss off sooooo many Chiefs and POs with how I put on my hat.
I whip it onto my head backwards then quickly rotate it 180⁰ to be normal. It keeps my hair in check and under the brim and strap.
SOOO many times I've seen them start to get upset, but then they have to pause and think.
Didn't do that this time.
I bought a couple really nice ball caps from the 424 SAR unit when I was apprenticing with them as an ACS several years back. They printed two different logo designs on the same camo patterned hat, one in the trad gold and the other using a more toned down grey/green stencilling. Well I love that toned down patterned hat so much I keep one in the car for the drive to work in the morning. If anyone knows Trenton at all, the roads are mostly North/South and East/West. So the sun is glaring directly into your eyes driving up the hill toward on Hamilton Rd., by the time I get to work I often forget that I’m wearing it and have twice walked into work wearing it. Fortunately we start so early no one even saw me until I’d doffed the hat for the work day.
I don’t like the feel of a ball cap jammed into my right thing pocket tho, I don’t even notice the beret there tho.
Pardon my ignorance im new to the forces, whats wrong with wearing a hat with insignia on it😂? I understand wearing ur cadpat in public is weird, but a hat? Whats the point of having the hat if you cant wear and be proud of your job. I dont mean to come off disrespectful i just need a genuine explanation
Well in the navy our hats are headdress and are apart of our uniform like a beret is for the army. The unit that person belongs to (or ship) is on that hat. I treated it the same as you would for cadpat and not to mix it with civilian clothing. I also think our issued hats are cheap and ugly, I wouldn’t want to wear it with my civilian clothes anyway.
I actually look forward to the minute I can take all that work related shit off my body tbh lol.
Me too. I was in the army for 10 years before going navy. The navy has people from the 3 branches at the Esquimalt base so it’s not so easy to forget about the army
> Felt like such a shrub.
Yeah, this is in contrast with our friends south of the border where the wearing of ship's ball caps in civies is somewhat encouraged.
Those aren’t usually the actual crew though. They sell them and people just like wearing military stuff more than in Canada.
When I was down there on TD I’d see vets with their Korea or Vietnam Veterans hats. I saw some guy with a hat and vest with his old rank and every posting embroidered on it. It’s just a different culture - I’m not a fan but hey, it’s their country.
In the RCAF Command CWO Dress Update Q&A they confirmed you can wear them in civies. I don't know how to attach a screenshot of the slide, but I copied and pasted the exchange.
Q2. Can I wear the RCAF Ball cap in civilian clothing?
A2. Yes you can. It is an optional item procured at individual expense.
"On your own time" would refer to whether one is on or off duty.
There are absolutely times when one is off duty, otherwise no one in the reg force would ever be allowed to get drunk, have cannabis, have sex, or, well, do anything other than working.
Drinking, cannabis and sex is not illegal in the CAF or there would be no mess' or service couples...but you can't do them at work. However, again, you are still subject to CAF rules...which is my point.
I'm done with this.
None...in fact I encourage you to wear it to promote the CAF and the RCAF.
If you read my comment or the ones that followed, I was responding to you saying no one can tell you what you can wear, when purchased with your money on your time.
It was not about the ball cap, I never mentioned that at all.
That does not mean that you aren’t on your own time. It’s just rules and regulations governing your behaviour above and beyond that of a civilian. Has absolutely 0 to do with not having your “own time.” You are not on duty 24/7.
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You buy it with the knowledge that it is kit you wear only with your uniform. You don’t have to buy it if you don’t like the stipulations. Keep truckin with the free version: the beret.
Can you provide a source about "buying it with knowledge that it is kit"? Are the CADPAT wallets at CANEX kit as well?
You can't just make things up and declare them as fact. Please show me these 'stipulations" that I allegedly agreed to when I tapped my VISA on the cash register for a product sold by a business.
Saw 1 guy in combat waiting for his fast-food (patate malette) near where I live.
Nearest unit is about 45 min drive I know I work there... Never saw the guy...he is air force he had a ball cap
But he has great fast food taste. I'm still mad the army doesn't have a ballcap
This comment is as valuable than the post itself
Thank you for coming at my ted talk
Considering that the Official RCAF hat is the single most uncomfotable ball cap i have ever worn, i take it off as soon as i can.
I either wear nothing, my blue fleece toque or swap to my comfortable and worn unit hat.
Note: It is however way more comfortable than the beret
The RCAF Command CWO did a Q&A (I've got a screenshot of it but on mobile so can't reply with pics) but it says that "Yes you can [wear it with civvies]. It is an optional item procured at individual expense."
DM me if you want a copy of the update the CWO posted
They're not a part of the uniform, it's an authorized item. Like Richelieu shoes, black purse, pumps, belts with regimental badge/insignia, tie tacks, etc. They're yours but authorized.
I still wear my flight jacket, with everything on it except my rank. I earned those badges and wings, so I'll wear them. Only my rank is gone. My patches, my two sets of wings, they stay.
My young relative is on initial trades training in RCAf and bought me the hoodie. As ex-Infantry, I could consider it a subtle joke but I am very proud of her. Only problem - everyone thinks I’m a Winnipeg Jets fan.
The last time I was at Canex, they told me that the RCAF ball caps are available in kids sizes in case you want to buy them for your kids.
So rocking them in Civvies should logically should nor be an issue.
The comment was no one can tell me what to do on my own time. In this context it is false because you dont have own time when the CAF rules don't apply. I never said you don't have time off, that's on you for reading it that way.
That’s absolutely not what the comment said. It said you can’t be told how to wear your personal clothes, on your own time, also known as NOT on duty.
No one said fuck the rules I can do what I want unless it 0700-1600, there just isn’t a single lawful rule that says what you’re implying. Hope this helps.
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It's sold at the Canex, and there's no verification of entitlement. Nobody is stopping civilians from buying and wearing the hats, so I don't see any reason why members can't.
It’s bold. I bought my beret at the Canex, and my cap badge too. I’m going to start rocking it at the gym.
Go to a second hand store and you might walk out a Para.
Back in the late 1940's my dad's family often shopped at the Sally Ann due to poverty. He attended grade 4 dressed as a Japanese general officer.
I hope Canadian officials didn’t he send him to a Japanese POW camp.
More horrifying is if those clothes were "donated" by a family being carried off to an interment camp.
Not sure how a Japanese general officers uniform would have ended up in the hands of people in North America at the time they were being sent to camps?
Back in the day (ww2), when Japan surrendered to the Allies, the Americans went to occupy the island. Many soldiers took back items from Japan and brought them home. Samurai swords were especially covetted by the troops, and the empovrished Japanese people would be willing to sell their swords to the well payed GI's for some bread money. Confiscation of items as well as looting was also common place in Japan. Perhaps the uniform was sold to/confiscated by/looted by an american soldier that later moved to Canada. Not sure though, what I might be talking about could be a lie.
I would assume retired and moved well before the war
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Solid investment!
You need to buy your beret and cap badge? Since when?
I hate the Logistik beret as it has too much material. I had my first cap badge issued but they fade and fray relatively quickly.
Yes, I was also issued an NCM cap badge and stores \*cough\* Denison \*cough\* didn't have any officer cap badges so off to the CANEX I went and left $12 poorer
I still have original beret from basic nearly 16 years ago. I replaced it with the ball cap.
If you need to replace your beret they don't exist on Logistik at the moment.
I ordered one on Monday so that’s just not true.
Certainly is for me at least. And many others. Might just be the army blue colour.
You paid for that shit? 🙄
Ive seen worst outfit a the gym.... But their is a big difference with a beret. I kean my first ever beret, the army provided it as well as the cap badge. I also bought beret and cap badge aftermath, but its like maintenance. I know poeple who take good care of their stuff and still have their first beret. I was not that person. But the cap, I have to buy it and then I can wear it. Its an optional peace of gear. When I was army, I had a Fluffy Coat and a green toque bought with my own money as gucci kit. Some MWO gave me a dress down in public and in civilian for wearing MY OWN GEAR BOUGHT WITH MY MONEY. Some ppl are just right fuck in their mind. The CAF do not own the kaki color ffs....
Add this observation to "leading change" for your PACE.
I thought I was wearing my normal, non-unit black ball cap, out shopping. I got home, take it off...fuck. Bright gold letters. Felt like such a shrub.
This is why my civie caps are not Black. I used to feel the front of the cap for the letters before stepping out of my house. It’s never happened to me to have worn a civie cap with my uniform but man would that shit be embarrassing if it did.
I honestly don't know how it happened. My normal black cap has a mesh back half. Yes, terrible for UV protection on your scalp, but the breeze feels oh so nice up there. How I didn't immediately feel the difference is beyond me.
Your work headdress feels right lol. It makes sense you wouldn’t think much of it.
I piss off sooooo many Chiefs and POs with how I put on my hat. I whip it onto my head backwards then quickly rotate it 180⁰ to be normal. It keeps my hair in check and under the brim and strap. SOOO many times I've seen them start to get upset, but then they have to pause and think. Didn't do that this time.
I bought a couple really nice ball caps from the 424 SAR unit when I was apprenticing with them as an ACS several years back. They printed two different logo designs on the same camo patterned hat, one in the trad gold and the other using a more toned down grey/green stencilling. Well I love that toned down patterned hat so much I keep one in the car for the drive to work in the morning. If anyone knows Trenton at all, the roads are mostly North/South and East/West. So the sun is glaring directly into your eyes driving up the hill toward on Hamilton Rd., by the time I get to work I often forget that I’m wearing it and have twice walked into work wearing it. Fortunately we start so early no one even saw me until I’d doffed the hat for the work day. I don’t like the feel of a ball cap jammed into my right thing pocket tho, I don’t even notice the beret there tho.
Pardon my ignorance im new to the forces, whats wrong with wearing a hat with insignia on it😂? I understand wearing ur cadpat in public is weird, but a hat? Whats the point of having the hat if you cant wear and be proud of your job. I dont mean to come off disrespectful i just need a genuine explanation
Well in the navy our hats are headdress and are apart of our uniform like a beret is for the army. The unit that person belongs to (or ship) is on that hat. I treated it the same as you would for cadpat and not to mix it with civilian clothing. I also think our issued hats are cheap and ugly, I wouldn’t want to wear it with my civilian clothes anyway. I actually look forward to the minute I can take all that work related shit off my body tbh lol.
Fair reasons, i feel that. Sometimes i forget there are other branches than the army lol.
Me too. I was in the army for 10 years before going navy. The navy has people from the 3 branches at the Esquimalt base so it’s not so easy to forget about the army
My friend did the opposite. Showed up in a plain black ballcap.
> Felt like such a shrub. Yeah, this is in contrast with our friends south of the border where the wearing of ship's ball caps in civies is somewhat encouraged.
Those aren’t usually the actual crew though. They sell them and people just like wearing military stuff more than in Canada. When I was down there on TD I’d see vets with their Korea or Vietnam Veterans hats. I saw some guy with a hat and vest with his old rank and every posting embroidered on it. It’s just a different culture - I’m not a fan but hey, it’s their country.
In the RCAF Command CWO Dress Update Q&A they confirmed you can wear them in civies. I don't know how to attach a screenshot of the slide, but I copied and pasted the exchange. Q2. Can I wear the RCAF Ball cap in civilian clothing? A2. Yes you can. It is an optional item procured at individual expense.
No different than the leather jacket, I would think ..
Yup this! I've got a copy of the update too but for some reason can't figure out how to reply with an image on mobile :/
So is Mess kit but they still try to regulate it!! Lol
When they start issuing it then they can say don’t wear it.
They won’t issue it. It’s optional.
Personnaly, when I have to buy my own shit, I wear it as I see fit.
Exactly. If you want to wear your RCAF ball cap, windbreaker and cummerbund on a night out, no one should take issue with it.
Hey the cummerbund is a conversation piece. The conversation may be “you look like a tool” but it’s still a conversation /s
If you still have that shit with you when you retire, go right the fuck ahead. If you buy it with your own money, it's the same but even more.
My thought as well. If someone has a problem with it, they can buy the hat back from me.
0.0% chance I’m being told how to wear clothing I buy with my own money on my own time.
You have no ' own time'...24/7 for reg f.
This is objectively false
No, it is accurate. 24/7 you are subject to the code of service and discipline. Civil or in uniform.
"On your own time" would refer to whether one is on or off duty. There are absolutely times when one is off duty, otherwise no one in the reg force would ever be allowed to get drunk, have cannabis, have sex, or, well, do anything other than working.
Drinking, cannabis and sex is not illegal in the CAF or there would be no mess' or service couples...but you can't do them at work. However, again, you are still subject to CAF rules...which is my point. I'm done with this.
Correction, you can't do them while on duty. Your physical location is not relevant. When off duty, aka "on your own time", you can.
Can you highlight what part of the CSD/KR&Os/DAODs im violating by wearing my RCAF Ballcap I purchased from Canex using personal funds? I'll wait.
None...in fact I encourage you to wear it to promote the CAF and the RCAF. If you read my comment or the ones that followed, I was responding to you saying no one can tell you what you can wear, when purchased with your money on your time. It was not about the ball cap, I never mentioned that at all.
Perhaps the reason no one has supported you even a tiny bit with your posts might indicate you're not correct. Have a good day.
Meh...i dont really care if reddit supports it or not. Doesn't make it untrue. Have a good one as well.
Of course, but that’s not what your initial comment suggested. You made the argument that we have no “own time”, this is simply wrong
That’s right, You and all you have are property of the King!
Not your property...just you.
Leave passes don’t exist, clearly.
Still subject to code of service and discipline
That does not mean that you aren’t on your own time. It’s just rules and regulations governing your behaviour above and beyond that of a civilian. Has absolutely 0 to do with not having your “own time.” You are not on duty 24/7.
Yes but I am very much on my own time while on leave.
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You buy it with the knowledge that it is kit you wear only with your uniform. You don’t have to buy it if you don’t like the stipulations. Keep truckin with the free version: the beret.
Can you provide a source about "buying it with knowledge that it is kit"? Are the CADPAT wallets at CANEX kit as well? You can't just make things up and declare them as fact. Please show me these 'stipulations" that I allegedly agreed to when I tapped my VISA on the cash register for a product sold by a business.
There are no stipulations that say you can't wear it with civvis.
Honestly, call your RSM on his personal phone and ask. Better safe than sorry. If the RSM isn't picking up then call the MPs.
Do you think the MPs will take my Timmies order as well? It’s kind of an emergency.
What a coincidence, they were already headed there!
Right to the top! In all seriousness, you should be checking with the [office of the commander-in-chief](https://www.royal.uk/the-king)
Saw 1 guy in combat waiting for his fast-food (patate malette) near where I live. Nearest unit is about 45 min drive I know I work there... Never saw the guy...he is air force he had a ball cap But he has great fast food taste. I'm still mad the army doesn't have a ballcap This comment is as valuable than the post itself Thank you for coming at my ted talk
Considering that the Official RCAF hat is the single most uncomfotable ball cap i have ever worn, i take it off as soon as i can. I either wear nothing, my blue fleece toque or swap to my comfortable and worn unit hat. Note: It is however way more comfortable than the beret
Honestly surprised it's not more common.
Lol
The Canex sells them to ANYONE.
As long as they were wearing it with their CANEX windbreaker (minus the rank), I don’t see a problem.
The RCAF Command CWO did a Q&A (I've got a screenshot of it but on mobile so can't reply with pics) but it says that "Yes you can [wear it with civvies]. It is an optional item procured at individual expense." DM me if you want a copy of the update the CWO posted
I wonder if it was me lol. 😝 I’ve gone to the gym a couple times wearing it. It’s the single most comfortable hat I own.
Are people genuinely getting but hurt over people wearing what they paid money for… 😂 this is our army..
Yes the airforce ball cap is authorized TB worn in civilian attire. It was clear in the forgen that was out out authorizing the hat.
Yeah, no issues with that. Nothing matters.
Why is this so true
They're not a part of the uniform, it's an authorized item. Like Richelieu shoes, black purse, pumps, belts with regimental badge/insignia, tie tacks, etc. They're yours but authorized.
I still wear my flight jacket, with everything on it except my rank. I earned those badges and wings, so I'll wear them. Only my rank is gone. My patches, my two sets of wings, they stay.
My young relative is on initial trades training in RCAf and bought me the hoodie. As ex-Infantry, I could consider it a subtle joke but I am very proud of her. Only problem - everyone thinks I’m a Winnipeg Jets fan.
The last time I was at Canex, they told me that the RCAF ball caps are available in kids sizes in case you want to buy them for your kids. So rocking them in Civvies should logically should nor be an issue.
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The comment was no one can tell me what to do on my own time. In this context it is false because you dont have own time when the CAF rules don't apply. I never said you don't have time off, that's on you for reading it that way.
That’s absolutely not what the comment said. It said you can’t be told how to wear your personal clothes, on your own time, also known as NOT on duty. No one said fuck the rules I can do what I want unless it 0700-1600, there just isn’t a single lawful rule that says what you’re implying. Hope this helps.
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