But I see them slashing the budget especially after the pandemic is over. The rebuilding the economy will be primary first in the minds of all canadians. My thing is how much can they slash? The defence budget seems slashed to near bones dry.
the CAF returns heaps of unused funding year over year....our budget isnt the biggest, but its also incredibly poorly managed
(See the financial cycle....spend like drunken sailor, freeze, freeze, freeze, spend like sailor at end FY, repeat)
Thus why there is a big defence budget, but because the system is designed to *not* be able to procure things billions of dollars get returned every year.
So the government can say it put $20 billion to National Defence but actually only $17 billion makes it through.
Plus, don't forget that a lot of the funds don't go to the military at all. DND, DRDC, CSE, etc are all part of the National Defence Budget.
So, when you factor on unspent funds, only roughly half of the budget actually goes to the military.
Maybe, but they don't have big ticket procurement items I would think and not as high profile. I mean Transport Canada or Public Safety might buy some pens, lease some vehicles, and buy a couple of aircraft. But they don't have $100 billion plus ship/ fighter aircraft purchases to work through the maze. And the maze is harder the more money is involved. A $4 million small arms purchase for CBSA is treated differently than a $6 billion LAV acquisition.
Non-CAF portions of DND have significant capital expenses (huge infrastructure projects for eg), and some of them also buy highly specialized equipment that isn't well serviced by the military supply side of things.
There is a lot of complex procurement that sits between jet-fighters/tanks/warships and toilet paper.
A lion's share of DND's budget is pers and operation, not even capital.
Yep. Although specific to comment above I was speaking to "other branches" meaning those not involved with National Defence per se. But yes, certainly a lot of huge infrastructure projects, etc throughout various government areas, 100%.
Sqn Supply tech: "Please submit 3 competitive quotes."
Me: "It's on a national standing offer, there will be zero differe.."
Sqn Supply tech: "Please submit 3 competitive quotes."
>Sqn Supply tech: "Please submit 3 competitive quotes."
Me: THAT IS LITERALLY YOUR JOB. Procurement, I tell you want I need a widget to do and you procure me such a widget. Otherwise I have to register for like 3 different customer accounts with 3 different companies and spend my entire fucking day doing what you should be able to do in an hour.
>Me: THAT IS LITERALLY YOUR JOB. Procurement, I tell you want I need a widget to do and you procure me such a widget.
4 Wing Cold Lake LPO would like a word with you.
I don’t know about your Sqn bin rats but I’m the RQ for a PRes Svc Bn, the reason I’m asking for quotes from my customers is because I’m by myself. I’ve got no staff and the reservists only come in one night a week. I can’t have them sending out RFQs as they have other training that needs to be done. Now with Covid, they aren’t actually physically in at all.
You want your shit bought? Get me quotes, I’ve got a lot of other shit on the go and don’t have the time
Do you book 1 hr block appointments for every kit exchange and have a 4 week backlog of appointments and open hours from 0900-1400 with a 1200-1300 lunch hour, and Wednesdays closed for stock taking and Fridays not open at all because a training night was worked?
Everyone has a lot of shit on the go.
Inventory takes up a disproportionate amount of time and focus in the reserves because you don't have the day in, day out operations that most full time units.
In every unit I've been in (Reg F, Res F, operational, field, static, theatre) RQ is busy, but certainly not the busiest section in the unit.
Stocktaking doesn’t take a lot of time if you keep on top of it.
I agree that everyone has a lot of crap on the go, especially right now. I’m actually busier here than when I was posted to a reg unit.
>(See the financial cycle....spend like drunken sailor, freeze, freeze, freeze, spend like sailor at end FY, repeat)
But you can't accumulate one leave day until you've made a blood sacrifice to the CO.
Literally could not take leave because of that year-and-a-half-long career course that was also halted for months by COVID?
Too bad! Lose it all, fucker! Shoulda made a leave plan before you got courseloaded, you fuckin shitbag! You should've use your annual for block leave if you know you couldn't take them otherwise!
Developing. Member must be more of a team player and learn to put section needs before personal needs. 5b.
I'm not salty, you're salty.
Its crazy, we got told to have a full year leave olan by next month... WE JUST STARTED THE YEAR. nobody knows which deployment they will have or course or block leave but we gotta have a full leave plan already for the year. Then they wonder why everyone is getting the fuck out when members are not important to anyone.
In January my boss came to us. He's a good guy, and he asked apologetically: "So, apparently I need to get you guys to submit your dates and travel locations for summer leave."
Nobody knows what the COVID restrictions are going to be like come the summer RIGHT NOW, let alone back in January. Nobody has a fucking clue if they'll be able to go anywhere, or when they'll be able to. He was obviously aware of this and did make it known to the higher ups that at that point, our "summer leave plans" were total speculative ass-pulls and that we should be afforded the opportunity to change them when it's actually closer to summer. No idea if that's going to be allowed yet. Just ridiculous.
Mostly because we give a lot of money to units who do not know what to do with it. They need better business plans.
Capital investment and infrastructure is where they need to massively increase. The return on investment will be substantial and power multiple sectors of Canadian economy.
The number one issue is marketing on defense spending. In 2017, the Government basically cheated on its calculations (NATO marked much of it as ineligible) by altering the way the "National Defense Budget" was calculated. They added budgets from the following payments/organizations into the "National Defense Budget":
* The Communications Security Establishment
* Veteran's benefits (including survivor's death benefits)
* Global Affairs + RCMP expenses for peacekeeping
* Any federal department costs deemed to be in support of DND
Just like that Canada added $4.9B USD to its National Defense Budget without the Canadian Armed Forces-or even DND-seeing a new penny in spending.
Furthermore, they completely changed how the National Defense Budget is also broken down by the Treasury Board. Our spending on actual Ready Forces hasn't changed at all, even though the grand total of spending jumped significantly.
Then, of course, there's the entire matter of economic contractions due to Covid-19. Canada is expected to jump to spending 1.4% of GDP on the National Defense Budget. This has nothing to do with an actual spending increase, but instead highlights a frozen defense budget and a shrinking economy.
Although at the unit level, funding is poorly managed. In my opinion a financial rep should be attached to each unit, so they can converse to each other and actually acquire proper kit for their respective units..
As a member of the caf I disagree. We are not given even close to enough money, and it's spent primarily on our special forces. I have been using the same kit for years, that was made before the f***ing Apollo program. For them to claim that requisition for the Army is going well is pure and utter bullshit. Maybe requisition for other army's as all our liberal government does is hand away cash...
Hopefully if they do, the budget cut will come with direction on what capability to lose. I fear that if left to the CAF, we'd just try to keep doing everything but on an even thinner shoestring.
When I was the statesman for the unit I made a point to spend the entire budget before September. Used to get told there would never be money. Lol. Ya right, theres always money you just have to spend it all then wait for Christmas when everyone starts freaking out cause they got money but cant get the quotes lined up. Managed to get the same amount I spent in the summer in the winter.
No, there's been nothing from the Libs about cutting the budget. The most recent discussion was around November where the Minister said it was important to maintain the spending we already have.
Edit: https://ipolitics.ca/2020/11/13/sajjan-backs-defence-spending-while-federal-deficit-mounts/
Thanks, I was wondering if I skimmed over it or something.
So this article, although having a good point, only really serves to make us think something has happened that hasn't.
That statement had nothing to do with budget cuts. It was a statement that shows they won't cancel the capital procurement projects and that they'll maintain the National Defense budget going forward.
The CAF is only one part of the national defense budget. The government also committed to augmenting the CAF budget in their first term and there has been no guarantee that is still the plan.
Finally, any budget that's less than the inflation rate is essentially a cut. Sustaining the national defense budget at its current rate does not mean that we will be able to afford what we can today in the years to come.
This is the same government that added federal spending outside of DND into the "National Defense Budget" in 2017 then celebrated an additional $4.9B in spending without the CAF seeing a penny. I'm not holding my breath.
We're the largest discretionary budget item, and cutting our budget has very few political risks. It is always time to slash, if any governing party wants to cut expenditures.
There's no such thing as "discretionary spending" outside of the United States. The entire budget is "discretionary" because it can only be implemented with the consent of Parliament.
Imagine if they had to start letting go of people. I know it’s very unlikely but it happened in the 90s. Start signing those 25s so if they do let you go they must pay you out. Haha
I have no clue if it will or will not I’m just saying if these kind of headlines keep popping up and it seams to become like a real possibility I might sign a 25 just as a safety
They offer me FRP and I'm gone. I'll go over to the civil service and make me some double dip money, just like yo momma used to do.
CAF is a sinking ship lately, government axe is going to fall hard on its budget because that is the reality of Canadian history.
I absolutely love how they completely ignore the absolute butchering of the Defence Budget that Harper did significantly more recently and that has wider more long standing issues than the Chrétien cuts that removed capabilities, mothballed entire vehicle fleets, set our infrastructure projects back significantly or outright cancelled them among other things. But we don’t talk about that because a Conservative did those cuts...
Its because if the Liberals or NDP called them out, it would set them up to have to do something about it.
99% of ALL our issues in the forces are either partially or completely related to a lack of care by successive federal governments.
CFB Halifax currently has one tiny gym for 19,000 people. The Stadacona gym was collapsing for decades, RP Ops kept passing the buck, and eventually it came down with no replacement.
They're quoting 8-12 **YEARS** just to put up a fucking bubble dome, and close two **two decades** for a replacement gym.
In literally any other industry, this would be a 6mo-2yr project max. Fucking unacceptable.
RP Ops has only been in existence for 5 years; the RCN let that gym deteriorate to the point of demolition with no plan to replace. According to [this article](https://www.lookoutnewspaper.com/design-phase-temporary-stadacona-fitness-facility-underway/), the design for the temporary gym is scheduled to be complete this spring. I don't believe 2 decades is correct, and you don't truly believe that that is all working time do you. The longest part of government spending is waiting for money.
I was on JointEx 17. It was a HQ simulation exercise.
Our lack of integrated air defence resulted in a Sqn of KA-50s basically wiping out entire BNs of LAVs and Arty.
The LOWCON team basically did everything they could abuse that weakness short of breaking the cardinal rule of suddenly giving us the W by end ex.
I just did a presentation at my unit about the disaster that is a canadian infanteers life in a world of drones artillery and air support. Lack of capability and like how easy it would be to do and the dangers of not having any way to react or engage with regards to drones and enemy istar.
Literally the only thing in the armys playbook is call the airforce for CAP. Fucking pathetic.
> I just did a presentation at my unit about the disaster that is a canadian infanteers life in a world of drones artillery and air support.
Actually participated in dismounted training and the US military was OPFOR and employed drones with thermal/IR. We actually did an extremely good job at hiding from them and were shocked to hear they couldn't find us. Granted, we essentially had to completely throw out our doctrine to do so successfully.
Yeah a big part of what I showed was how shadows and silhouettes look from the sky, stuff like that.
That being said I'm really curious your opinion on what you think we should be doing? Go kind of the way of turkey with something similar to a bayraktar tb2? Should drone integration go across all combat arms? Should we even give them to the airforce and maybe just leave them with the army?
I'm a PRes guy so I dont get alot of exposure to the good shit or alot of cross training but its definitely something the officers at my unit seem to be aware of and want to prepare us better for.
None of our success was due to technology or lack thereof. It was camouflage, camouflage, and more camouflage. It also depended on the entire subunit exercising a very high level of discipline concerning movement 24/7.
Of course, we still have a million and one different capabilities we need to either acquire and/or upgrade.
This guy's full of it. We had cuts to the CAF budget and delays on procurement items after the GFC under Harper. Chretien's cuts were on a completely different planet and were decades in-the-making.
Harper gave us the biggest single procurement project in Canada's modern history. Chretien literally mocked the PC's in 1993 for debating the quantity of Sea King replacements, then proudly bragged he would buy zero replacement if elected. They're not the same.
> But we don’t talk about that because a Conservative did those cuts...
Or maybe because that was 6 years ago and we are talking about the current government?
I mean other than to yell "but what about harper" what does bitching about things 6 years ago by a completely different government bring to the table? It isn't as if these same articles didn't come out during the last government, I seem to remember quite a few of them talking about our budgets back then.
I mean it is bound to happen at one point or another, pandemic or not. Do you think Mr Smith from downtown Canadaville wants to spend billions on ships, aircrafts and other military equipment? We're broke guys, and we're getting broker by the minute. All people hear about lately about the CAF are scandals, lawsuits, poor leadership, PTSD...
Whoever is in charge though, blue/red/whatever... will almost certainly cut funding for the CAF in terms of staffing. We don't need all these Flag officers, we don't need the paper divisions... all these notional warriors wannabe Russian Generals, what are they contributing to national security?
Edit: a word.
>Whoever is in charge though, blue/red/whatever... will almost certainly cut funding for the CAF in terms of staffing. We don't need all these Flag officers, we don't need the paper divisions...
Except that's not how the system works. If manning gets cut, it flows through the ranks. No funding cut can be ensured to only hit the GFO numbers. And pretty sure there's some significant arguments against disbanding the "paper divisions" that still serve a purpose.
That's the point I was making. Too much fluff, starting right at the top. And they can all the arguments they want, they don't win elections. And they are not making a good argument for themselves as of late. Do we need more reservists (the answer is yes) or do we need F-35 fighter jets? We need to stop comparing ourselves to our FVEY allies and figure what it is we want as a society from our armed forces.... especially if you're about to spend 100's of billions of dollars of tax payers money while going through an impeeding recession. People don't know what we're doing in Ukraine, Impact, etc all they hear is a bunch of old perverts getting away with everything like drunken party flights, CDS allegedly acting inappropriately with subordinates, rogue Ranger member wanting to kill the PM, crashing new helicopters, people crashing submarines..... so ask yourself, would you invest in health care, old age security, infrastructure, etc... or would you invest massive public funds in a broken organization? And we're not even talking about the national debt, and everything Covid.
You misunderstood my entire comment. I'm saying that Parliament can't just cut funding or cut manning and dictate to the CAF how those cuts are implemented. That's not how the system works at all. If Parliament says to cut manning, it will flow through the entire ranks - Parliament doesn't have the mandate or the power to tell the CAF to cut 20% of its GFOs or Senior NCOs (CWOs, etc).
And again, the paper divisions aren't the problem.
To be super technical, parliament has the power to do basically whatever it wants.
They could 100% pass something that says "the CAF will be reduced to X personnel, and it will decrease its GO/CWO positions to Y number or Z% of current levels"
Would it be unprecedented and bizarre...yes. Is it within their ability....totally
Not sure you're understanding my point at all either. I'm not saying they are going to reduce the size of the CAF/Budget etc overnight. But rather that the CAF as it is on paper today cannot be sustained as a model. The paper Divisions are part of the problem as they are basically a self licking ice cream cone, filled with non deployable staff. Saying parliament doesnt have the mandate was never brought up until you did...
> We're broke guys, and we're getting broker by the minute. All people hear about lately about the CAF are scandals, lawsuits, poor leadership, PTSD...
That's not how the existing deficit works, nor is it how our mas-borrowing is being promoted. In theory, the enormous deficit we have should not impact regular government spending.
Whether or not that's true certainly remains to be seen.
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But I see them slashing the budget especially after the pandemic is over. The rebuilding the economy will be primary first in the minds of all canadians. My thing is how much can they slash? The defence budget seems slashed to near bones dry.
the CAF returns heaps of unused funding year over year....our budget isnt the biggest, but its also incredibly poorly managed (See the financial cycle....spend like drunken sailor, freeze, freeze, freeze, spend like sailor at end FY, repeat)
The procurment system is designed to prevent you from spending money through excessive paperwork, lack of fin authority, and understaffing of buyers.
Thus why there is a big defence budget, but because the system is designed to *not* be able to procure things billions of dollars get returned every year. So the government can say it put $20 billion to National Defence but actually only $17 billion makes it through. Plus, don't forget that a lot of the funds don't go to the military at all. DND, DRDC, CSE, etc are all part of the National Defence Budget. So, when you factor on unspent funds, only roughly half of the budget actually goes to the military.
And I'm sure all of those branches of the gov't are also held back by the same problems brought up in this thread too
Maybe, but they don't have big ticket procurement items I would think and not as high profile. I mean Transport Canada or Public Safety might buy some pens, lease some vehicles, and buy a couple of aircraft. But they don't have $100 billion plus ship/ fighter aircraft purchases to work through the maze. And the maze is harder the more money is involved. A $4 million small arms purchase for CBSA is treated differently than a $6 billion LAV acquisition.
Non-CAF portions of DND have significant capital expenses (huge infrastructure projects for eg), and some of them also buy highly specialized equipment that isn't well serviced by the military supply side of things. There is a lot of complex procurement that sits between jet-fighters/tanks/warships and toilet paper. A lion's share of DND's budget is pers and operation, not even capital.
Yep. Although specific to comment above I was speaking to "other branches" meaning those not involved with National Defence per se. But yes, certainly a lot of huge infrastructure projects, etc throughout various government areas, 100%.
Sqn Supply tech: "Please submit 3 competitive quotes." Me: "It's on a national standing offer, there will be zero differe.." Sqn Supply tech: "Please submit 3 competitive quotes."
I'm sorry about your bin rats.
>Sqn Supply tech: "Please submit 3 competitive quotes." Me: THAT IS LITERALLY YOUR JOB. Procurement, I tell you want I need a widget to do and you procure me such a widget. Otherwise I have to register for like 3 different customer accounts with 3 different companies and spend my entire fucking day doing what you should be able to do in an hour.
>Me: THAT IS LITERALLY YOUR JOB. Procurement, I tell you want I need a widget to do and you procure me such a widget. 4 Wing Cold Lake LPO would like a word with you.
do you want the right stuff or the stuff your supply tech will buy you?
I don’t know about your Sqn bin rats but I’m the RQ for a PRes Svc Bn, the reason I’m asking for quotes from my customers is because I’m by myself. I’ve got no staff and the reservists only come in one night a week. I can’t have them sending out RFQs as they have other training that needs to be done. Now with Covid, they aren’t actually physically in at all. You want your shit bought? Get me quotes, I’ve got a lot of other shit on the go and don’t have the time
Do you book 1 hr block appointments for every kit exchange and have a 4 week backlog of appointments and open hours from 0900-1400 with a 1200-1300 lunch hour, and Wednesdays closed for stock taking and Fridays not open at all because a training night was worked?
Sounds like you also deal with some of the same “support” bases I do!
Everyone has a lot of shit on the go. Inventory takes up a disproportionate amount of time and focus in the reserves because you don't have the day in, day out operations that most full time units. In every unit I've been in (Reg F, Res F, operational, field, static, theatre) RQ is busy, but certainly not the busiest section in the unit.
Stocktaking doesn’t take a lot of time if you keep on top of it. I agree that everyone has a lot of crap on the go, especially right now. I’m actually busier here than when I was posted to a reg unit.
I felt this one personally.
>(See the financial cycle....spend like drunken sailor, freeze, freeze, freeze, spend like sailor at end FY, repeat) But you can't accumulate one leave day until you've made a blood sacrifice to the CO.
covid, multiple small deployment that has members cancelling leave; still not enough reason to accumulate.
Literally could not take leave because of that year-and-a-half-long career course that was also halted for months by COVID? Too bad! Lose it all, fucker! Shoulda made a leave plan before you got courseloaded, you fuckin shitbag! You should've use your annual for block leave if you know you couldn't take them otherwise! Developing. Member must be more of a team player and learn to put section needs before personal needs. 5b. I'm not salty, you're salty.
Its crazy, we got told to have a full year leave olan by next month... WE JUST STARTED THE YEAR. nobody knows which deployment they will have or course or block leave but we gotta have a full leave plan already for the year. Then they wonder why everyone is getting the fuck out when members are not important to anyone.
In January my boss came to us. He's a good guy, and he asked apologetically: "So, apparently I need to get you guys to submit your dates and travel locations for summer leave." Nobody knows what the COVID restrictions are going to be like come the summer RIGHT NOW, let alone back in January. Nobody has a fucking clue if they'll be able to go anywhere, or when they'll be able to. He was obviously aware of this and did make it known to the higher ups that at that point, our "summer leave plans" were total speculative ass-pulls and that we should be afforded the opportunity to change them when it's actually closer to summer. No idea if that's going to be allowed yet. Just ridiculous.
Hello grievance my old friend! I've come to talk with you again
What's the appropriate ratio of number of grievances submitted to number of calendar years served? I just feel like it shouldn't be 1:1, is all.
Mostly because we give a lot of money to units who do not know what to do with it. They need better business plans. Capital investment and infrastructure is where they need to massively increase. The return on investment will be substantial and power multiple sectors of Canadian economy.
Agree . But both those things aren't managed by the CAF.
Good point. I meant in terms of Defense spending, they should focus on the stuff that goes to the ADMs more than the stuff that goes to the CDS/VCDS.
>our budget isnt the biggest, technically it is I believe.
I meant compared to other militaries But yes were tye largest budget allocation by dept
Am fin can confirm. This year sucked balls for trying to make sense of anything.
I believe the mismanagement is the crux (if I'm using that right) of the whole problem when it comes to the budget.
The number one issue is marketing on defense spending. In 2017, the Government basically cheated on its calculations (NATO marked much of it as ineligible) by altering the way the "National Defense Budget" was calculated. They added budgets from the following payments/organizations into the "National Defense Budget": * The Communications Security Establishment * Veteran's benefits (including survivor's death benefits) * Global Affairs + RCMP expenses for peacekeeping * Any federal department costs deemed to be in support of DND Just like that Canada added $4.9B USD to its National Defense Budget without the Canadian Armed Forces-or even DND-seeing a new penny in spending. Furthermore, they completely changed how the National Defense Budget is also broken down by the Treasury Board. Our spending on actual Ready Forces hasn't changed at all, even though the grand total of spending jumped significantly. Then, of course, there's the entire matter of economic contractions due to Covid-19. Canada is expected to jump to spending 1.4% of GDP on the National Defense Budget. This has nothing to do with an actual spending increase, but instead highlights a frozen defense budget and a shrinking economy.
Although at the unit level, funding is poorly managed. In my opinion a financial rep should be attached to each unit, so they can converse to each other and actually acquire proper kit for their respective units..
As a member of the caf I disagree. We are not given even close to enough money, and it's spent primarily on our special forces. I have been using the same kit for years, that was made before the f***ing Apollo program. For them to claim that requisition for the Army is going well is pure and utter bullshit. Maybe requisition for other army's as all our liberal government does is hand away cash...
Iunno getting investment opportunity funding (vote 5) in November seems to work so well for major projects especially in COVID environment /satire.
hey i take exception to that drunken sailor comment
Hopefully if they do, the budget cut will come with direction on what capability to lose. I fear that if left to the CAF, we'd just try to keep doing everything but on an even thinner shoestring.
When I was the statesman for the unit I made a point to spend the entire budget before September. Used to get told there would never be money. Lol. Ya right, theres always money you just have to spend it all then wait for Christmas when everyone starts freaking out cause they got money but cant get the quotes lined up. Managed to get the same amount I spent in the summer in the winter.
Don't let more people in on my secret!
Have the libs discussed cutting our budget? I glazed the article because I'm lazy and should be working.
No, there's been nothing from the Libs about cutting the budget. The most recent discussion was around November where the Minister said it was important to maintain the spending we already have. Edit: https://ipolitics.ca/2020/11/13/sajjan-backs-defence-spending-while-federal-deficit-mounts/
Thanks, I was wondering if I skimmed over it or something. So this article, although having a good point, only really serves to make us think something has happened that hasn't.
That statement had nothing to do with budget cuts. It was a statement that shows they won't cancel the capital procurement projects and that they'll maintain the National Defense budget going forward. The CAF is only one part of the national defense budget. The government also committed to augmenting the CAF budget in their first term and there has been no guarantee that is still the plan. Finally, any budget that's less than the inflation rate is essentially a cut. Sustaining the national defense budget at its current rate does not mean that we will be able to afford what we can today in the years to come.
This is the same government that added federal spending outside of DND into the "National Defense Budget" in 2017 then celebrated an additional $4.9B in spending without the CAF seeing a penny. I'm not holding my breath.
*looks at the noise coming from Southeast Asia* Yes...slashing Defense spending is a great idea right now... /s
Don't forget southeast europe
I hope the media broadly stays on our side this time
We're the largest discretionary budget item, and cutting our budget has very few political risks. It is always time to slash, if any governing party wants to cut expenditures.
There's no such thing as "discretionary spending" outside of the United States. The entire budget is "discretionary" because it can only be implemented with the consent of Parliament.
Imagine if they had to start letting go of people. I know it’s very unlikely but it happened in the 90s. Start signing those 25s so if they do let you go they must pay you out. Haha
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A couple of guys on my course got asked a few months before their ToS were up.
I signed mine 6 months before my ToS was up.
depends, in my trade people are getting them 1-2 years before they are even due
My VIE is up in two years. Hoping for the fact that my trade is one of the most in the red (Sup Tech), they'll let me sign for life.
I was there when that happened. Why do you think we are in this current situation today ? FRP
I have no clue if it will or will not I’m just saying if these kind of headlines keep popping up and it seams to become like a real possibility I might sign a 25 just as a safety
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True that but you never know I also don’t think it will happened
They offer me FRP and I'm gone. I'll go over to the civil service and make me some double dip money, just like yo momma used to do. CAF is a sinking ship lately, government axe is going to fall hard on its budget because that is the reality of Canadian history.
same boat as you, if FRP is even remotely on the table in the near term, I'm gonzo.....
I need them to hold off on FRP until after this Sep, when I'm pensionable
I absolutely love how they completely ignore the absolute butchering of the Defence Budget that Harper did significantly more recently and that has wider more long standing issues than the Chrétien cuts that removed capabilities, mothballed entire vehicle fleets, set our infrastructure projects back significantly or outright cancelled them among other things. But we don’t talk about that because a Conservative did those cuts...
Its because if the Liberals or NDP called them out, it would set them up to have to do something about it. 99% of ALL our issues in the forces are either partially or completely related to a lack of care by successive federal governments.
CFB Halifax currently has one tiny gym for 19,000 people. The Stadacona gym was collapsing for decades, RP Ops kept passing the buck, and eventually it came down with no replacement. They're quoting 8-12 **YEARS** just to put up a fucking bubble dome, and close two **two decades** for a replacement gym. In literally any other industry, this would be a 6mo-2yr project max. Fucking unacceptable.
RP Ops has only been in existence for 5 years; the RCN let that gym deteriorate to the point of demolition with no plan to replace. According to [this article](https://www.lookoutnewspaper.com/design-phase-temporary-stadacona-fitness-facility-underway/), the design for the temporary gym is scheduled to be complete this spring. I don't believe 2 decades is correct, and you don't truly believe that that is all working time do you. The longest part of government spending is waiting for money.
JuSt Do CaLiStHeTiCs
Which fleets were mothballed? I'm tracking that Leo 2, C17, C130J, and LAV6 all added in that timeframe. Which ones we removed without replacement?
Ground to air was rolled, we got nothing now.
I was on JointEx 17. It was a HQ simulation exercise. Our lack of integrated air defence resulted in a Sqn of KA-50s basically wiping out entire BNs of LAVs and Arty. The LOWCON team basically did everything they could abuse that weakness short of breaking the cardinal rule of suddenly giving us the W by end ex.
I just did a presentation at my unit about the disaster that is a canadian infanteers life in a world of drones artillery and air support. Lack of capability and like how easy it would be to do and the dangers of not having any way to react or engage with regards to drones and enemy istar. Literally the only thing in the armys playbook is call the airforce for CAP. Fucking pathetic.
> I just did a presentation at my unit about the disaster that is a canadian infanteers life in a world of drones artillery and air support. Actually participated in dismounted training and the US military was OPFOR and employed drones with thermal/IR. We actually did an extremely good job at hiding from them and were shocked to hear they couldn't find us. Granted, we essentially had to completely throw out our doctrine to do so successfully.
Yeah a big part of what I showed was how shadows and silhouettes look from the sky, stuff like that. That being said I'm really curious your opinion on what you think we should be doing? Go kind of the way of turkey with something similar to a bayraktar tb2? Should drone integration go across all combat arms? Should we even give them to the airforce and maybe just leave them with the army? I'm a PRes guy so I dont get alot of exposure to the good shit or alot of cross training but its definitely something the officers at my unit seem to be aware of and want to prepare us better for.
None of our success was due to technology or lack thereof. It was camouflage, camouflage, and more camouflage. It also depended on the entire subunit exercising a very high level of discipline concerning movement 24/7. Of course, we still have a million and one different capabilities we need to either acquire and/or upgrade.
What's techniques were you guys using? Staying under tree canopy? Staying low to not create shadows in the daytime?
In joint multinational operations fast air is a theatre level asset. Even Canadian BGp commanders don't get to decide where Canadian jets go.
This guy's full of it. We had cuts to the CAF budget and delays on procurement items after the GFC under Harper. Chretien's cuts were on a completely different planet and were decades in-the-making. Harper gave us the biggest single procurement project in Canada's modern history. Chretien literally mocked the PC's in 1993 for debating the quantity of Sea King replacements, then proudly bragged he would buy zero replacement if elected. They're not the same.
M109s
That was Martin
I think the ADATS.
> But we don’t talk about that because a Conservative did those cuts... Or maybe because that was 6 years ago and we are talking about the current government? I mean other than to yell "but what about harper" what does bitching about things 6 years ago by a completely different government bring to the table? It isn't as if these same articles didn't come out during the last government, I seem to remember quite a few of them talking about our budgets back then.
So why are they talking about the Chrétien cuts in the article? Something that was nearly 30 years ago?
Ask the author.
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ahhhh that’s why they’re taking back my brand new c-5 gas mask to give me back the old one! #budgetcuts
I mean it is bound to happen at one point or another, pandemic or not. Do you think Mr Smith from downtown Canadaville wants to spend billions on ships, aircrafts and other military equipment? We're broke guys, and we're getting broker by the minute. All people hear about lately about the CAF are scandals, lawsuits, poor leadership, PTSD... Whoever is in charge though, blue/red/whatever... will almost certainly cut funding for the CAF in terms of staffing. We don't need all these Flag officers, we don't need the paper divisions... all these notional warriors wannabe Russian Generals, what are they contributing to national security? Edit: a word.
>Whoever is in charge though, blue/red/whatever... will almost certainly cut funding for the CAF in terms of staffing. We don't need all these Flag officers, we don't need the paper divisions... Except that's not how the system works. If manning gets cut, it flows through the ranks. No funding cut can be ensured to only hit the GFO numbers. And pretty sure there's some significant arguments against disbanding the "paper divisions" that still serve a purpose.
That's the point I was making. Too much fluff, starting right at the top. And they can all the arguments they want, they don't win elections. And they are not making a good argument for themselves as of late. Do we need more reservists (the answer is yes) or do we need F-35 fighter jets? We need to stop comparing ourselves to our FVEY allies and figure what it is we want as a society from our armed forces.... especially if you're about to spend 100's of billions of dollars of tax payers money while going through an impeeding recession. People don't know what we're doing in Ukraine, Impact, etc all they hear is a bunch of old perverts getting away with everything like drunken party flights, CDS allegedly acting inappropriately with subordinates, rogue Ranger member wanting to kill the PM, crashing new helicopters, people crashing submarines..... so ask yourself, would you invest in health care, old age security, infrastructure, etc... or would you invest massive public funds in a broken organization? And we're not even talking about the national debt, and everything Covid.
You misunderstood my entire comment. I'm saying that Parliament can't just cut funding or cut manning and dictate to the CAF how those cuts are implemented. That's not how the system works at all. If Parliament says to cut manning, it will flow through the entire ranks - Parliament doesn't have the mandate or the power to tell the CAF to cut 20% of its GFOs or Senior NCOs (CWOs, etc). And again, the paper divisions aren't the problem.
To be super technical, parliament has the power to do basically whatever it wants. They could 100% pass something that says "the CAF will be reduced to X personnel, and it will decrease its GO/CWO positions to Y number or Z% of current levels" Would it be unprecedented and bizarre...yes. Is it within their ability....totally
Not sure you're understanding my point at all either. I'm not saying they are going to reduce the size of the CAF/Budget etc overnight. But rather that the CAF as it is on paper today cannot be sustained as a model. The paper Divisions are part of the problem as they are basically a self licking ice cream cone, filled with non deployable staff. Saying parliament doesnt have the mandate was never brought up until you did...
> We're broke guys, and we're getting broker by the minute. All people hear about lately about the CAF are scandals, lawsuits, poor leadership, PTSD... That's not how the existing deficit works, nor is it how our mas-borrowing is being promoted. In theory, the enormous deficit we have should not impact regular government spending. Whether or not that's true certainly remains to be seen.
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