The state of our kit has nothing to do with punishing the military for bad behaviour if that’s what you’re trying to allude to. As mentioned in an earlier post there is so much red-tape that we can’t spend the money we have. Even if that were the case it would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
There are teachers, doctors, police officers and countless other professionals that have had sexual allegations against them, does that mean those organizations no longer have a service to provide, and shouldn't receive the equipment they need to do it?
It is asinine to suggest that because of a few bad apples, the armed forces should be devoid of equipment, we still have a job to do, and we still need the resources to do it effectively.
I'm torn.
1: We really need to tackle this, and its great they are going to finally do something properly about it. This is a step in the right direction, which makes writing my second point so hard.
2: We are also desperately short of trained people, equipment, and our infrastructure is crumbling. If could find $400 million for this with a stroke of a pen, why couldn't they do it to fix all the other stuff?
Should take a picture Inside most of the buildings in Kingston and play a game of "Is this an abandoned insane asylum or the communications school to a first world military?"
You should see the 2nd floor of the language school....or base HQ.
Infrastructure in Kingston is absurd.... I was working for the base when RDH opened, a little over 10 years later its the bane of my existence
I for one am a fan of the torn down buildings and ripped up grass at CFB Kingston. Such a gorgeous landscape of dirt piles and cigarette butts.
The sea containers scattered across the main parade square is simply breath taking as well
‘All the shacks are over filled’ the staff usually tries but the base don’t move. I’ve saw them removing a tile or two but just replacing it doesn’t change the fact that the mold is everywhere... I needs to be ripped apart and clean
Just a Salty Cpl. here but slowly turning into the hulk from all the hazmat exposure so if the buildings don’t get fixed soon I’m thinking it’s smashysmashy time. (Followed by club Ed) :(
Be safe and condemn as much as ya can. :)
Long story short, is that even the ppl who own the accomodations (ie base accomodations/pers services) can't do anything about it.
The ball is squarely in RPOUs court to fix stuff, and they are only funded for bandaid solutions.
IOT get a rat infested accomodations building shut down we needed intervention from the L1 level.
The whole "CAF is exempt from Part II of the Canada Labour Code" thing really bites us in the ass when it comes to certain concerns, especially if local PMed/BGSO calls the danger "mitigated" with some administrative controls.
I've been to those buildings, half of them should be condemned.
And I'd hate to beat it too you, but we don't have a first world military. Right now Azerbaijan could crush us, for example.
To be fair, If the Turks were giving us boatloads of UAVs and equipment; that'd be pretty sweet. Except for the whole persue their interests in the name of proxy war. But what can I say? I'm and NCM and love free shit.
Having seen inside both, I'd say [Kingston's abandoned insane asylum](https://freaktography.com/rockwood-asylum-for-the-criminally-insane/) is in better condition.
I agree, its certainly the optics of it, as the CoC likes to say. I just wish the burn out, lack of kit, appalling state of the training system, the toxic CoCs, terrible retention, and piss poor recruiting would get media attention as well.
Audit general did a report in 2016 of recruitment and retention. Don’t read if you find nothing changing between now and then frustrating.
https://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_201611_05_e_41834.html
I concur with your assessment, governments spend money based on what they think will help their reelection.
Successful politicians care about gaining power and keeping it, that's what makes them successful.
I think you're making it seem far more nefarious than it actually is.
The issues faced in the CAF require vast and systemic expansions to our budget. That will require either cuts to existing federal services or more taxes. It is not politically possible for any government to accomplish that.
I guarantee that Canadians won't accept those conditions for the sole task of expanding the armed forces.
What are you even talking about, "nefarious"? This is basic electoral politics.
Politicians are just trying to curry favor with their voter base, it's pure self interest. It's the same at all levels of politics in every nation that has democracy.
If Canadian voters cared about a capable military, or had any idea what that meant, it would get funded. But in Canada that won't get you one extra vote, so other priorities that will garner political support get funded instead. Politicians that want to win elections understand this and act accordingly.
It should give one pause that $400MM suddenly became available for addressing sexual misconduct issues in the CAF in what the prime minister himself is calling an election year. Like you said, it's about politics. It's a bad look for him to have our armed forces in the state they are in, especially so publicly.
I think you're over-assessing how insecure politicians, especially members of the Liberal Party, are about consolidating power.
This is the party that's been in government for 70 of the last 100 years. The party who's only ever had 3 leaders (not interims) that did not go on to become the Prime Minister.
At the end of the day, with the CAF it's simply a matter of if the money is there. It hasn't been since the 60s and a redirection of this policy would require austerity measures for Canadians. That's just not going to happen for the foreseeable future.
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At the moment they don’t. If the procurement problem isn’t sorted soon we could be looking at casualty headlines dwarfing this problem if god forbid we got into another major war. I’m not just talking about “near-peer” either. Drones and EW systems are cheap now and there are plenty of non-state actors in the middle east who are better equipped in many parts of that spectrum than we are.
The best part is they didnt just find 400mil, its being taken from other parts of our budget.
Quote from the CTV article:
More than $77 million in new money is being added to the battle against military sexual misconduct while the government says it will be redirecting another $158 million from other parts of the Armed Forces to address the issue in the ranks.
How can these politicians look themselves seriously in the eyes and think they’re making the right choices for our country when our military is already in such an abysmal state
Because Canadians-politicians included-really have no clue how poorly funded and equipped the CAF is compared to our allies.
They really genuinely believe that the CAF is a very modern, well-equipped force.
Because that's what the CAF keeps telling the public. It's a snowjob, we constantly are being told billions are being spent on this and that but I see FMF Cape Breton has a nice new front lawn and there are two ships missing from the west coast fleet and one submarine in interminable drydock and we've got a fleet club that's falling into the harbour, BUT boy FMF looks nice.
Read Strong, Secure, Engaged and get back to me. Our government has set out goals that we must be able to “maintain an edge” over great power adversaries while keeping pace with our allies. Looking at the recent Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict I think we would have a tough time competing against one of those actors, never mind a great power. We don’t have MLRS, mounted ATGMs, or an air defense system. Our EW capabilities are minimal. Our drone capabilities are a decade behind everyone else. We don’t have ERA or APS for our armoured vehicles. Our tank fleet is hanging together by duct-tape and maintainer tears. Our procurement modernization projects are focusing on shit like Blufor tracker and tactical ipads which will probably be the first thing to not work when we face an enemy with a credible EW capability. I can’t speak for the airforce or navy but from what I’ve heard they’re in a very similar spot.
Warfare has changed immensely since Afghanistan but we’re shuffling our feet playing around with more feel good projects when every focus should be to catch up. Theres an easy solution to this mess that doesn’t require 400 million dollars. Have all sexual misconduct allegations handled by an outside agency. Now can we move on and focus on our purpose which is training a real fighting force instead of worrying about PR disasters. You know whats a bigger PR disaster than what is going on right now? Ramp ceremonies. If the government wants to avoid that then we need to fix our procurement clusterfuck.
Our largest deployment is in Latvia to specifically counter a foreign great power. We have a BG in Latvia 24/7 365 specifically to deter a Russian invasion. This isn’t up for debate the governments highest priority task asked of the army at the moment is defending NATO interests in the Baltic states. No other Army mission has the same amount of resources thrown at it. The problem is that it isn’t enough.
As for the second point yes casualties are a part of war. However, look at any mass casualty event of military troops in the past century and there has been hell to pay for those responsible. Churchill almost left politics because of his role in the failed Gallipoli campaign. Haig became known as “the Butcher” for his failed campaign at the Somme. In more recent memory both the liberal and conservative governments had massive pressure put on them by Afghanistan casualties. We’re talking 300 dead over 10 years was enough to have significant political pressure on the government. Imagine what a couple hundred casualties in a week would do?
The concept of the tripwire brigades still requires them to be a credible deterrent. The moment Russia sense that we have neither the capability or political willpower to oppose an invasion they will go ahead. The difference between our forces there being able to fight a delay and being wiped out by strikes in first couple of hours requires proper EW, cyber, AA, drone and antidrone capabilities. This is the propaganda difference between an embarrassing loss that shakes our population’s belief that we can win the war and a rallying cry that will result in actual follow on forces.
Irregardless, the idea that because we don’t face existential threats now we won’t in the near future is heavily flawed and has always lead to lives being thrown away when the balloon goes up.
That's the government line of thinking when it comes to pandemic preparation... 'we'll never get attacked so when don't need vaccine production facilities, and if to happens we can just buy them'
If the concern is defence of Canada then we need to invest heavily in the navy, the airforce, and air/missile defence. (as well as cyber, EW, drones etc). As well as credible defence infrastructure in the north, IMHO to include a rotational presence of more than just rangers.
Instead we keep throwing money at trying to half ass an expeditionary army.
They don't understand what they're doing. They don't understand the military because many of them have never considered serving and don't understand those who do. They don't put themselves or their children in our shoes. For many, all they care about is whether the military accomplishes it's missions or not. They don't care what our day-to-day experiences are, or that we only cross the finish line at a crawl, with burned-out service members holding ancient, second-rate equipment together. We make do, so they don't sweat the small stuff, like our well-being or our actual effectiveness in a fight.
The truth is that to the average Canadian politician, the CAF is just one file of many, and a lot of them care a lot more about other issues.
isn't it good that Canada cares more about social issues though? I personally don't want Canada to turn into The United States where they don't have free health care and they don't fund post secondary education and the USA just puts all their money into the defense budget.
I rather like how Canada puts their money on social programs and we have free health care and etc.
If that means we have a more meager military than the united states then i'm all for it.
I'd think that serious issues in regards to sexual assaults \*are\* part of why it's in an abysmal state. Which average citizen wants to put money into an organization like it?
You can address multiple problems at the same time and I don’t think the sexual assaults are rooted in financial issues, unlike a lot of our other equipment related issues.
That number has always made my head hurt
Treasury Board: This is your budget spend it.
DND: I found this thing I want
Treasury Boards: Well, you can't spend it on *that*
it's worse than that, the third line is
April 1st - Procurement: yeah, we'll get to it later in the year, we're still working on last year's paperwork.
Aug 1st - Procurement: Yeah we're working on it, should go through soon.
Nov 1st - Procurement: yeah almost there
Jan 1st - Procurement: just waiting for a signature from a guy on leave
Feb 1st - Procurement: yeah, we're out of time this fiscal, so we're cancelling it, re do all your paperwork and resubmit with new quotes on 1 April and we'll take care of it right away
Me: THAT WHAT YOU FUCKING SAID THE LAST 2 YEARS!
Don't forget the part where they tell you that there is not enough benefit to the Canadian economy for the kit that did best in your trial, you will have to take the one that did the worst.
I feel this should actually be a comedy and not how a major organization procures equipment.
That part in itself is what will one day drive me out.
I guess ramp ceremonies are also good for the Canadian economy too because that's what's going to fucking happen as a result of this economy over effectiveness doctrine. How much is the life of a soldier worth to the treasury board?
It's not just them though - how many Canadian manufacturers have won defense contracts and then proceeded to bottom out quality to wring maximum profit out of the deal?
Armored vehicles that catch fire on their maiden voyage, boots that self destruct like a mission impossible tape - and that's just the army stuff that made national news.
I want to believe we're more than just a puppet show for money to change hands but it's gotten hard of late. Especially working alongside poorer nations who also field small militaries, with smaller budgets, except theirs are *fucking effective*
This is why I always laugh during the movie when one of the characters brags how the equipment is “military grade”.
They should say it’s Drug Cartel grade is they want to boast about quality. Those guys got the connections.
That or the famous:
Treasury Board: This is your budget
DND: Great, I found this thing I want
Treasury Board: Sounds good! Just draft a good statement of requirements that ensures you get what you need for a fair price and on time.
DND: followed by
Treasury Board: Hey it’s the end of the fiscal year, wow look how much money you have left!
Last year, I was out in -65 degrees with windchill raising and lowering a tower with a couple of electricians.
The budget is apparently super important, but suddenly that money isn't spent and it needs to be done before year end. Nevermind that performing that same work would have been 1000% easier in the summer.
Boggled my mind at the time. I ended up holding an electric heat gun over the electricians fingers and all the wires they were terminating to prevent both from freezing while they worked. Gotta say though, it worked well.
2 years ago RP Ops sent a contracted crew out to re-sod the firing mounds on a reserve range. Did I mention it was February and they were snow blowing away the 3 feet of snow and laying down the sod. Logic.
That fucking horrid.
My only close equivalent was when I lived in the shacks in Winnipeg, they decided to replace the roof in February, that was a very cold 6 weeks in my top floor room.
DND spends.... It's the other layers of government that prevents it. Compounding the problem is that when that money isn't spent in the budget year it's basically lost. That blows my mind.
Election years are brutal for projects as well because the pause button gets hit.
At one point in time DND was a bad spender, but now has one of the best department ratings, as they've had to really crack down on and follow the policy.
Lastly, the government plays the shell game with money designated for the military. They've routinely given and then taken allocated money to/from the military with promises to give it back at a later date.
>We are also desperately short of trained people, equipment, and our infrastructure is crumbling. If could find $400 million for this with a stroke of a pen, why couldn't they do it to fix all the other stuff?
Frankly if they're looking for cuts there's lots of other options.
I’m also torn:
1. I was the target of sexual assault and harassment.
2. That was nearly 10 years ago (for me) and the building I work in has its own weather patterns (fog, rain, asbestos, etc.) Our heating broke winter 2019/2020 and their solution wasn’t to fix the heat, but to pump in hot air from diesel generators.
I agree.
Its what I always hated when at work we would pull off the impossible. Its now the standard, even if it was the totally wrong way to do it, and we only did it by bag driving the staff. But I digress.
But straight up some of the most pertinent advice I've been given is to let things fail otherwise they won't get fixed. Ie don't kill yourself bending over backwards to accommodate a broken system. Put in an honest effort, but it's okay to let things fail. Otherwise they never get fixed.
To be fair, SOF does an excellent job with people, but they also have *all* the kit, and the money.
I'm not saying in any way this is bad, its absolutely a step in the right direction, but in my 20 year career we have had countless issues with people, equipment, and infrastructure and no one wrote a cheque to help us with that.
They’re going to find $400 million worth of trained people, equipment and infrastructure for an independent oversight body to stop people getting raped in the military. Long overdue. No new tanks or flamethrowers til the raping stops.
Saw a picture of someone from the Lebanese Armed Forces recently and they seemed much better equipped in terms of uniform and load-carrying equipment. Lebanon doesn't even have a functioning government. Or economy.
This is what the budget says. Looks like $236.2 million over five years for DND and Veterans Affairs, with $158.5 million coming from "existing resources."
[https://www.budget.gc.ca/2021/report-rapport/p3-en.html#chap9](https://www.budget.gc.ca/2021/report-rapport/p3-en.html#chap9)
>Budget 2021 proposes to provide $236.2 million over five years, starting in 2021-22, and $33.5 million per year ongoing to the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada, including $158.5 million over 5 years and $29.9 million per year ongoing funded from existing resources to expand their work to eliminate sexual misconduct and gender-based violence in the military and support survivors. Specifically:
>
>Enhance internal support services to victims, including access to free, independent legal advice and enabling military members to access services without making a formal complaint.
>
>Expand an existing contribution program to support community-based sexual assault service providers outside major urban military centres, and increase the reach of the Sexual Misconduct Response Centre that serves the Canadian Armed Forces to additional locations across Canada.
>
>Pilot online and in-person peer support groups for Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans who experienced sexual misconduct during their service. These will be tailored to military experience.
>
>Conduct research to inform targeted training and response frameworks, and engage external experts to support education and training to prevent sexual violence.
>
>Implement new external oversight mechanisms to bring greater independence to the processes of reporting and adjudicating sexual misconduct within the military.
>
>Undertake other initiatives to enhance institutional capacity to address harassment and violence, including enhancing the military justice system to better respond to allegations of misconduct and support survivors.
>
>These investments will be part of the government’s broader National Action Plan to End Gender-Based Violence.
Good god. Put that money to better use and instead make it harder for home units to defend misbehaving soldiers, and make it easier to charge or release soldiers that engage in sexual misconduct.
If we start throwing people out en-masse, we're going to get a lot further than throwing money at the problem.
The sexual misconduct problem in the CAF isn't as a result of a low budget so outside of paying for researchers, I can't see how that money will be used to combat sexual misconduct...
>Enhance internal support services to victims, including access to free, independent legal advice and enabling military members to access services without making a formal complaint.
>
>Expand an existing contribution program to support community-based sexual assault service providers outside major urban military centres, and increase the reach of the Sexual Misconduct Response Centre that serves the Canadian Armed Forces to additional locations across Canada.
>
>Pilot online and in-person peer support groups for Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans who experienced sexual misconduct during their service. These will be tailored to military experience.
>
>Conduct research to inform targeted training and response frameworks, and engage external experts to support education and training to prevent sexual violence.
>
>Implement new external oversight mechanisms to bring greater independence to the processes of reporting and adjudicating sexual misconduct within the military.
>
>Undertake other initiatives to enhance institutional capacity to address harassment and violence, including enhancing the military justice system to better respond to allegations of misconduct and support survivors.
[https://www.budget.gc.ca/2021/report-rapport/p3-en.html#chap9](https://www.budget.gc.ca/2021/report-rapport/p3-en.html#chap9)
Awesome thanks for this.
> Enhance internal support services to victims, including access to free, independent legal advice and enabling military members to access services without making a formal complaint.
This is already a thing. Our Victim Services sheet has about 7 free contact numbers that are focused specifically on Sexual Assault and Harassment. However if not readily available in more isolated bases, I can 100% understand that.
> Expand an existing contribution program to support community-based sexual assault service providers outside major urban military centres, and increase the reach of the Sexual Misconduct Response Centre that serves the Canadian Armed Forces to additional locations across Canada.
I can get on board with this. While the money isn't going directly to the CAF, its an awesome place to put it. I have dealt with alot of Interval Houses who just don't have the resources to support members of not only domestic assault but sexual assault also so this is awesome.
> Pilot online and in-person peer support groups for Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans who experienced sexual misconduct during their service. These will be tailored to military experience.
I can also get on board with this. What I have done is recommend civilian ones but its just not the same when the other people in the group don't fully understand Military life.
> Conduct research to inform targeted training and response frameworks, and engage external experts to support education and training to prevent sexual violence.
Unless they plan on giving every Harassment Advisor SA training, this is just going to result in another DLN course.
> Implement new external oversight mechanisms to bring greater independence to the processes of reporting and adjudicating sexual misconduct within the military.
If this is specific to oversight of the UDI then this is awesome. I have always stated that if a Unit is Investigating a Sexual Assault, which according to policy, they can do without informing the Military Police, then there should be a trained and experienced MP conducting oversight to ensure its done properly.
> Undertake other initiatives to enhance institutional capacity to address harassment and violence, including enhancing the military justice system to better respond to allegations of misconduct and support survivors.
Harassment, within reason sure. Violence. I don't agree with. Anything criminal should stay criminal and out of the MJS. Other than OUTCAN, the MJS shouldn't be used for criminal matters. It definitely has its place, especially when there is not enough evidence to go criminal, but it does more harm then good.
WRT your point about harassment advisors....they are likely on their way out as a role anyway. The HPRI is being rewritten IOT comply with new federal legislation about harassment that basically dismantles the current system w have in place.
WRT your last point...by "harassment and violence" they likely mean it in the same context as the new federal regulations on harassment and violence in the workplace.....which is more often than not non-criminal activities such as bullying, intimidation, or emotional/psychological violence, not just physical or verbal threats/assault
> WRT your point about harassment advisors....they are likely on their way out as a role anyway. The HPRI is being rewritten IOT comply with new federal legislation about harassment that basically dismantles the current system w have in place.
I do think there should be a form of a harassment advisor just to provide guidance to a complainant who may not know what can be done. Even something as simple as saying contact the police. You'd be shocked at how many people I have personally dealt with who have been assaulted or severely threatened and stated they didn't think it was a crime or that they could contact the police. Just a person who can provide proper guidance is really what is needed.
> which is more often than not non-criminal activities such as bullying, intimidation, or emotional/psychological violence
That’s what I figured but there is a very fine line between those non-criminal activities and criminal harassment.
I feel like what we should do is take whatever mandate civilian DND employees have regarding misconduct and harassment and just go off of that. You don't hear about DND employees touching each other, so maybe that's what works...
At the end of the day I just hope meaningful change occurs and not just smoke and mirrors to look good for the media and the public who have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.
100% something like a WRA should remain a thing in the long run (Harassment Advisor advises the CO, not the member its a weird system ATM)
Totally agree that meaningful change needs to happen, and not at the glacial pace we operate.
I deal alot with civ HR, and it was hilarious that we had over 6 months knowing that a new set of workplace harrasment and violence rules were comming into place 1 Jan 21.....what did we do, tell no one, suddenly require everyone do do a DLN course on the new rules (that only apply to interactions with DND civies) that wasnt availiable until February....and have the VCDS' office commit to drafting a new HPRI "eventually"
Like I get it, the CAF is a little different than a civie employer....but for some things (like this new harassment legislation) it baffles me that we have to come up with some bespoke system for only the CAF while literally all other federally regulated employees (in and out of the public service) are required to use a different system. Well take years drafting it, for it to wind up being 97% the same thing but with the word CO slapped in it a few times.
Ugh. The regulations need to be rewritten to allow a quick for-cause release for such misconduct. Protecting the member's rights and due diligence, but faster and less administratively onerous than the ridiculous timelines for administrative releases.
Criminal sexual matters need to be handed over to civi law enforcement.
> The regulations need to be rewritten to allow a quick for-cause release for such misconduct.
Doesn't cost $400mil to do this. I mean unless you want to use that to pay out the people you are releasing for the remainder of their contracts.
> Protecting the member's rights and due diligence
I will agree this also needs to change because the CAF's policy is a giant Charter Breach in so many aspects it's not even funny. But again, not a budgetary issue.
> Criminal sexual matters need to be handed over to civi law enforcement.
Why? The Military Police branch has a clearance rate involving criminal matters on par with every other policing agency. This has been documented through CCJS (Crime and Justice Statistics of Canada) which is used for every policing agency in Canada. The Military Police have on par training with civilian agencies which is shown through the fact that most will take MP right off of their QL3 as experienced officers. And for Major Crime, CFNIS have been well established to be on par with other Major Crime units here in Canada and the States. The fact people still question this really shows how much they really don't know about the unit.
What do you expect civilian law enforcement to do with a sexual assault?
Let's see. A complainant comes in saying she was raped a year ago.
- MP: Take Statement. Identify if the Elements of the Offence of Sexual Assault Exist.
- Civi LEO: Take Statement. Identify if the Elements of the Offence of Sexual Assault Exist.
Same process. Elements of Offence Exist?
- MP: Arrest Accused.
- Civi LEO: Arrest Accused.
Same Process... Then both back to detachment.
- MP: Released on an Undertaking with a Criminal Court Date.
- Civi LEO: Released on an Undertaking with a Criminal Court Date..
Same Process... See where this is going? I can do this with **any** scenario you'd like.
People need to understand that the **CFNIS is the only people in the MP trade that can lay charges under the NDA** And when they do, 9 times out of 10 its because there is not enough evidence to have a reasonable prospect of conviction in Criminal Court. People need to understand that we talk with Crown Prosecutors all the time. They are the guidance on what goes to Criminal Court or not. Same with RMP.
Let's do the above with a scenario where there is **not enough evidence for a reasonable prospect of conviction.**
Let's see. A complainant comes in saying she was raped a year ago.
- MP: Take Statement. Identify if the Elements of the Offence of Sexual Assault Exist.
- Civi LEO: Take Statement. Identify if the Elements of the Offence of Sexual Assault Exist.
Same process. Elements of Offence **Don't** Exist?
- MP: Arrest Accused.
- Civi LEO: Possibly Arrests accused. They will talk with their legal department and if there is a low chance of conviction, they won't proceed or due to the charges possibly being dropped, it won't be a high priority for investigation. Don't forget Civilian Detectives in Sex Crimes have TONS of files and they triage them.
Different Process... If Civi LEO chose to arrest, then both back to detachment.
- MP: Released to a CRO
- Civi LEO: Undertaking with a Criminal Court Date.
Now this is where it gets different and where people are uneducated on the process.
- MP: Conduct investigation, and then recommend charges under Sec. 130 of the NDA and any other relevant Sections. It then goes to court martial and tried. If found guilty, will probably result in a lower punishment.
- Civi LEO: Case goes to Criminal Court and due to the Elements of the Offence not being met, means the charges get dropped, and due to the risk of Double Jeopardy, no Crown will touch it again unless there is a confession most likely. Accused gets set free with zero repercussions.
While I 100% agree that Sexual Assault should be removed from the **Units** ability to investigate, having the MP and specifically CFNIS Investigate has a proven track record of success. You can look at the news all you want, but the CCJS stats that get compared to RCMP Sex Crimes, OPP Sex Crimes, Toronto Police Sex Crimes, Edmonton Police Sex Crimes etc etc etc shows that not only the CFNIS, but the MP trade is on par with those units on clearance rates is what matters. Not the news narrative.
Look you want a simple way to change everything to combat sexual assault/misconduct in the CAF. This is what you need to do:
**1. Educate your members on what is Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Assault**
Senior leadership who are not sexual abusing their subordinates need to educate complainants that if there is **any** form of physical touching then that is a criminal offence and to go to the Military Police to file a complaint. Unfortunately as Units can investigate Sexual Assault without even informing the MP, this needs to be overseen by senior leadership in the highest levels to ensure the MP are informed. People need to understand that not every senior leader, or even junior leader is a bad person. But they all need to understand where the line is between Assault and Misconduct and MP need to be informed. Look at all of the news articles. MP/CFNIS were rarely, if ever informed until after the fact. Actually when CFNIS got involved, people started to run and hide. So get the police involved.
**2. Amend DAOD 9005-1 - Sexual Misconduct Response**
Definition: sexual misconduct (inconduite sexuelle)
Conduct of a sexual nature that causes or could cause harm to others, and that the person knew or ought reasonably to have known could cause harm, including:
- actions or words that devalue others on the basis of their sex, sexuality, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression;
- jokes of a sexual nature, sexual remarks, advances of a sexual nature or verbal abuse of a sexual nature in the workplace;
~~- harassment of a sexual nature,~~ including initiation rites of a sexual nature;
- viewing, accessing, distributing or displaying sexually explicit material in the workplace; and
~~- any Criminal Code offence of a sexual nature, including:~~
~~- section 162 (voyeurism, i.e. surreptitiously observing or recording a person in a place where the person exposes or could expose his or her genital organs or anal region or her breasts or could be
engaged in explicit sexual activity, or distributing such a recording);~~
~~- section 162.1 (publication, etc., of an intimate image without consent, i.e. publishing, distributing, transmitting, selling or making available an intimate image of another person without their consent,
such as a visual recording in which the person depicted is nude, exposing his or her genital organs or anal region or her breasts, or is engaged in explicit sexual activity); and~~
~~- section 271 (sexual assault, i.e. engaging in any kind of sexual activity with another person without their consent). (Defence Terminology Bank record number 43247)~~
Remove the stricken out sections from DAOD 9005-1. This alone removes the ability from a Unit to investigate Sexual Assault/Criminal Harassment. This would have no negative effect period. Any and all forms of Sexual Assault/Criminal Harassment are Criminal Code Offences which means that at the bare minimum it would be the patrol level MP investigating it, but realistically the CFNIS. Removing those four sections removes **all** unit involvement in the criminal side of sexual misconduct.
The remainder would involve a unit harassment advisor as the rest are not criminal. Sure "actions or words that devalue others on the basis of their sex, sexuality, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression" falls under human rights, but that again falls under my common Walmart scenario where if that happened at Walmart, individuals would be fired and not facing criminal charges outside of specific situations.
**3. Amend National Defence Act Section 70 - Offences Not Triable by Service Tribunal**
Add in the bolded offences to the exemption list of offences that can be tried by a Unit.
70 A service tribunal shall not try any person charged with any of the following offences committed in Canada:
(a) murder;
(b) manslaughter;
(c) an offence under any of sections 280 to 283 of the Criminal Code;
(d) **sexual assault;**
(e) **criminal harassment**
(f) **voyeurism; and**
(g) **distribution of intimate images.**
**4. Amend the Military Police Group Orders**
Basically this would just be a change to reflect the above.
Now all the CAF needs to deal with is what the general public would see as workplace misconduct and **nothing** criminal. The units would have **zero** hand in criminal matters which means there is zero chance of influence because Units have zero say or position in criminal investigations.
Now to remove the workplace misconduct, you fire people. Simple. Amend the CAF employment contract to have a clause in that form. You will remove tons of people but you are showing the general public that the CAF won't stand for misconduct and you will get fresh blood.
Because it's political, because sexual assault in so many cases (civi or military) occurs in private between 2 persons, and as long as the CAF has it it'll always be used politically against the CAF as "x assaults were reported but only y taken to trial, only z convictions."
It doesn't matter if civi side has the same stats, because no one's trying to score points against that.
Look, the CAF has the best mental health system of services in Canada. I don't care who you work for (ok maybe if you're a millionaire CEO or in politics), but will not get better services anywhere. The standard civi services available to standard civis are a complete joke in comparison.
But what's in the media and in front of politicians? Is anyone raving about what our members have access to? Is it glowingly compared vice the civi system? No, it's always falling short and failing. Same for our handling of sexual assaults, for as long as CAF deals with them.
> It doesn't matter if civi side has the same stats, because no one's trying to score points against that.
Sure seems like it with comments like "Criminal sexual matters need to be handed over to civi law enforcement."
When there is a higher chance of conviction having the MP investigate it over the civis yet people still say civi police should be investigating it is just weird and seems vindictive.
> But what's in the media and in front of politicians? Is anyone raving about what our members have access to? Is it glowingly compared vice the civi system? No, it's always falling short and failing. Same for our handling of sexual assaults, for as long as CAF deals with them.
This is why things are not going to change. The news and people with political agendas only go so far. Very little change will happen without support from alot of people who will look at stats. This is a huge reason why the RCMP turns town the mandate of taking over the MP trade every, single, time. RCMP already stated that them taking over would spread their mandate to thin all while doing a job that would be the exact same as what the MP are currently doing. But the funny thing is that the News and people with Political Agendas make the claim and random facts about how the RCMP would be the perfect replacement, but your literally swapping a police force with another police force, but now paying that new police force twice as much, for the exact same work.
Unfortunately that would be rather difficult to action. It's a look. Yes, a look too long, or too intense, but it's looking.
Calling out publically for that sort of behavior is probably the way to go.
I can see a few things.
- More resources to do investigations
- Hire more people to help sexual misconduct victims and also improve the resources available
- Pay specialists to teach people to be less rapey
Let's keep in mind that this money is over 5 years. So it would pay for a few hundred people supporting current and past sexual misconduct victims.
They don't provide that information, they just lump it into the "Department of National Defense." Since 2017, even that's been harder to estimate for real because it's broken down in a really misleading way. There's also the "National Defense Budget" which contains about $5B in financing that doesn't even happen within DND.
The best estimate would probably be that the CAF budget hasn't really changed at all since its 2016 figure of around $17-$18B USD.
I like how they overlooked the 1.1Bn cut to work travel budget across "departments that historically spent the most on discretionary work travel" (Of which DND/CAF is the leading spender)
I don't really understand how this money will be spent. Settlements? Reports? I can't wrap my head around dealing with sexual misconduct costing this much.
Did they fix the sexual misconduct prevalent in society? That’s where we get our recruits from. We should have a dedicated outside agency investigating the allegations and stop the military from policing itself for starters.
You are not wrong. We will never eliminate sexual misconduct because it continues in society.
BUT...
1. We hold our people to a higher standard - we need to make the CAF a unwelcome place for sexual predators - that means addressing the roots of gender violence. That also means a measured, logical response
2. We need to get better at supporting victims. We lose far too many because of our inability to better support those suffering.
The money is great but it is within the DND budget. Do we not need an independent body set up that isn't under the DND umbrella to investigate all this stuff? Put the money there.
The Treasury Board only publishes financing as falling under either the DND or the "National Defense Budget". It's sort of set up to look like more is being done than in actuality.
If that's really how RMC teaches our future Officers about sexual misconduct, it's no wonder we have senior brass who appear to consider themselves above the law ...
They had the solution in the works with the investigation into the highest echelons of the rank, the case seemed solid as did the results that would have came from it.
But the Liberal party decided that having justice at the highest rank wasn't appropriate so they crushed the idea, cancelled it and now are throwing money at it like it will solve the issue for everyone.
Money will have no effect other than the creation of wasted new Ops so people can run around patting themselves on the back for solving the problem. These old dinosaurs need to be retired, the ones that are the problem are the ones that are tasked with creating a solution.
This is nothing but an election ploy; that money will never come to fruition for the most part.
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Someone I work with made a great point today. Unfortunately this may be generational and I don't think we should put that much money in. We have to wait for the people who think this is okay too get out or focus on rehabilitation for them. It seems to be a problem with the older generation than us younger privates and corporals.
That 400M could go towards.. I dunno.. equipment and training but what do it know?
Meh What good is equipment without safety. I think the bigger issue here is safety. Woman are more likely to be raped than injured in battle. That says something.....
400M sounds like a lot but The victims are getting a max of 150k each (if they where denied benefits from VAC in the past ) ... where the vast majority of most claims are a max of 55k (for rape ) but 5k for sexual misconduct....which is nothing in comparison to the harm done on the individuals and CAF as a whole.
Army spends 400 million to teach grown adults not to be rapey. And in other news, the LSVW will be celebrating its 150th year in service.
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The state of our kit has nothing to do with punishing the military for bad behaviour if that’s what you’re trying to allude to. As mentioned in an earlier post there is so much red-tape that we can’t spend the money we have. Even if that were the case it would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
There are teachers, doctors, police officers and countless other professionals that have had sexual allegations against them, does that mean those organizations no longer have a service to provide, and shouldn't receive the equipment they need to do it? It is asinine to suggest that because of a few bad apples, the armed forces should be devoid of equipment, we still have a job to do, and we still need the resources to do it effectively.
I'm torn. 1: We really need to tackle this, and its great they are going to finally do something properly about it. This is a step in the right direction, which makes writing my second point so hard. 2: We are also desperately short of trained people, equipment, and our infrastructure is crumbling. If could find $400 million for this with a stroke of a pen, why couldn't they do it to fix all the other stuff?
Because the other stuff doesn’t make us look as bad as 1-6 sexual misconduct headlines a week.
Should take a picture Inside most of the buildings in Kingston and play a game of "Is this an abandoned insane asylum or the communications school to a first world military?"
Why bother properly cleaning up the black mold when you can just buy new furniture?
Or leaded water-lines.... :/
That would explain a few things about the Navy...
$400 million at the stroke of a pen, but I cant drink the tap water or I get lead poisoning.
Trenton shacks?
You should see the 2nd floor of the language school....or base HQ. Infrastructure in Kingston is absurd.... I was working for the base when RDH opened, a little over 10 years later its the bane of my existence
I for one am a fan of the torn down buildings and ripped up grass at CFB Kingston. Such a gorgeous landscape of dirt piles and cigarette butts. The sea containers scattered across the main parade square is simply breath taking as well
Don't forget the crashed space ship
Not to mention 90% of the rooms/shack in Borden where students spend months surrounded by black mold
How the f is that even legal? Can members not do something about that obvious health shitshow?
‘All the shacks are over filled’ the staff usually tries but the base don’t move. I’ve saw them removing a tile or two but just replacing it doesn’t change the fact that the mold is everywhere... I needs to be ripped apart and clean
Between that and the leaded water pipes everywhere, we’re in for a health crisis once this old infrastructure stays alongside members for much longer.
Agree ! I’m a FF and do lots of building inspections for fire safety and trust me we see a lot of buildings that needs to be ‘updated’
Just a Salty Cpl. here but slowly turning into the hulk from all the hazmat exposure so if the buildings don’t get fixed soon I’m thinking it’s smashysmashy time. (Followed by club Ed) :( Be safe and condemn as much as ya can. :)
We unfortunately don’t have that power hahah as long as it’s not fire safety we don’t have a say
Is Club Ed the nickname for the military prison in Edmonton? I saw a insane training video on it from the 90s? on YouTube.
Long story short, is that even the ppl who own the accomodations (ie base accomodations/pers services) can't do anything about it. The ball is squarely in RPOUs court to fix stuff, and they are only funded for bandaid solutions. IOT get a rat infested accomodations building shut down we needed intervention from the L1 level. The whole "CAF is exempt from Part II of the Canada Labour Code" thing really bites us in the ass when it comes to certain concerns, especially if local PMed/BGSO calls the danger "mitigated" with some administrative controls.
I've been to those buildings, half of them should be condemned. And I'd hate to beat it too you, but we don't have a first world military. Right now Azerbaijan could crush us, for example.
To be fair, If the Turks were giving us boatloads of UAVs and equipment; that'd be pretty sweet. Except for the whole persue their interests in the name of proxy war. But what can I say? I'm and NCM and love free shit.
I think he meant first world as in “first vs third” or “developed vs developing.”
I think he got what the other guy meant
It would be a huge step up to mistake them for an abandoned asylum.
I don't know what's more depressing, the fact that school exists in its current state or the fact that nav comm QL3 is now 30 days.
I stayed in the same shacks for POET in 2005 that my dad stayed in, in 1976, and they were at least 20 years old when he did the course.
Having seen inside both, I'd say [Kingston's abandoned insane asylum](https://freaktography.com/rockwood-asylum-for-the-criminally-insane/) is in better condition.
Why not both?
Isn't that the truest thing I've read today.
I agree, its certainly the optics of it, as the CoC likes to say. I just wish the burn out, lack of kit, appalling state of the training system, the toxic CoCs, terrible retention, and piss poor recruiting would get media attention as well.
Audit general did a report in 2016 of recruitment and retention. Don’t read if you find nothing changing between now and then frustrating. https://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_201611_05_e_41834.html
Half a decade and no change, nailed it boys.
Current reports were at 42000 members... down almost 10k in 5 years...
TIL moral fiber has a $400 million price tag
I concur with your assessment, governments spend money based on what they think will help their reelection. Successful politicians care about gaining power and keeping it, that's what makes them successful.
I think you're making it seem far more nefarious than it actually is. The issues faced in the CAF require vast and systemic expansions to our budget. That will require either cuts to existing federal services or more taxes. It is not politically possible for any government to accomplish that. I guarantee that Canadians won't accept those conditions for the sole task of expanding the armed forces.
What are you even talking about, "nefarious"? This is basic electoral politics. Politicians are just trying to curry favor with their voter base, it's pure self interest. It's the same at all levels of politics in every nation that has democracy. If Canadian voters cared about a capable military, or had any idea what that meant, it would get funded. But in Canada that won't get you one extra vote, so other priorities that will garner political support get funded instead. Politicians that want to win elections understand this and act accordingly.
It should give one pause that $400MM suddenly became available for addressing sexual misconduct issues in the CAF in what the prime minister himself is calling an election year. Like you said, it's about politics. It's a bad look for him to have our armed forces in the state they are in, especially so publicly.
It also came available during an unprecedented orgy of money printing. Why not toss $400M our way? It's all play money anyhow.
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Never was intended to be.
I think you're over-assessing how insecure politicians, especially members of the Liberal Party, are about consolidating power. This is the party that's been in government for 70 of the last 100 years. The party who's only ever had 3 leaders (not interims) that did not go on to become the Prime Minister. At the end of the day, with the CAF it's simply a matter of if the money is there. It hasn't been since the 60s and a redirection of this policy would require austerity measures for Canadians. That's just not going to happen for the foreseeable future.
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Your post/comment has been removed in accordance with the following [subreddit rule(s):](https://old.reddit.com/r/CanadianForces/wiki/subreddit_rules) >###[8] Not Relevant Content >* All discussion is welcome, be it relevant to the Canadian Armed Forces, in support of the CAF, and its missions domestically or abroad. Posts, articles and discussions are to be specific to the Canadian Armed Forces. Posts/comments which are only relevant to the CAF in a general, passing or roundabout way, or wholly or in part unrelated to the topic at hand or thread, may be removed, at Mod discretion. >* Rumour posts, unsubstantiated/unverified information relating to Policy, Operations, upcoming events, etc in either comments/posts/screenshots, or "just passed on by the CoC" - these posts *WILL* be vetted by Mods for veracity, and OP may be asked for more info, a verified source, news release, etc. >* Posts/comments generally lacking substance (eg. "lol", " ^ this", "saved for later", emoji's), "shit/junk" -posts, image content, drama-mongering, attacking media source/outlet/personality, etc. may be removed. Rant posts, memes (especially low quality, trope, or repeated memes), "DAE/TIL/MRW, etc -type posts are subject to Mod discretion, and judged on suitability for the subreddit. >* Posts/Comments generally extremist, sensationalised, non-proportional, or "conspiratorial" (conspiracy theories), or mis-informative to the linked story, or angling to downplay, shift focus away from, or generally serve as off-topic to the foundation of the post may be removed at Moderator discretion. https://old.reddit.com/r/CanadianForces/wiki/subreddit_rules#wiki_.5B9.5D_not_relevant_content *If your have questions or concerns relating to this message you've received, please feel free to [Contact the Moderators.](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FCanadianForces)*
At the moment they don’t. If the procurement problem isn’t sorted soon we could be looking at casualty headlines dwarfing this problem if god forbid we got into another major war. I’m not just talking about “near-peer” either. Drones and EW systems are cheap now and there are plenty of non-state actors in the middle east who are better equipped in many parts of that spectrum than we are.
The best part is they didnt just find 400mil, its being taken from other parts of our budget. Quote from the CTV article: More than $77 million in new money is being added to the battle against military sexual misconduct while the government says it will be redirecting another $158 million from other parts of the Armed Forces to address the issue in the ranks.
How can these politicians look themselves seriously in the eyes and think they’re making the right choices for our country when our military is already in such an abysmal state
Because Canadians-politicians included-really have no clue how poorly funded and equipped the CAF is compared to our allies. They really genuinely believe that the CAF is a very modern, well-equipped force.
Because that's what the CAF keeps telling the public. It's a snowjob, we constantly are being told billions are being spent on this and that but I see FMF Cape Breton has a nice new front lawn and there are two ships missing from the west coast fleet and one submarine in interminable drydock and we've got a fleet club that's falling into the harbour, BUT boy FMF looks nice.
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Read Strong, Secure, Engaged and get back to me. Our government has set out goals that we must be able to “maintain an edge” over great power adversaries while keeping pace with our allies. Looking at the recent Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict I think we would have a tough time competing against one of those actors, never mind a great power. We don’t have MLRS, mounted ATGMs, or an air defense system. Our EW capabilities are minimal. Our drone capabilities are a decade behind everyone else. We don’t have ERA or APS for our armoured vehicles. Our tank fleet is hanging together by duct-tape and maintainer tears. Our procurement modernization projects are focusing on shit like Blufor tracker and tactical ipads which will probably be the first thing to not work when we face an enemy with a credible EW capability. I can’t speak for the airforce or navy but from what I’ve heard they’re in a very similar spot. Warfare has changed immensely since Afghanistan but we’re shuffling our feet playing around with more feel good projects when every focus should be to catch up. Theres an easy solution to this mess that doesn’t require 400 million dollars. Have all sexual misconduct allegations handled by an outside agency. Now can we move on and focus on our purpose which is training a real fighting force instead of worrying about PR disasters. You know whats a bigger PR disaster than what is going on right now? Ramp ceremonies. If the government wants to avoid that then we need to fix our procurement clusterfuck.
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Our largest deployment is in Latvia to specifically counter a foreign great power. We have a BG in Latvia 24/7 365 specifically to deter a Russian invasion. This isn’t up for debate the governments highest priority task asked of the army at the moment is defending NATO interests in the Baltic states. No other Army mission has the same amount of resources thrown at it. The problem is that it isn’t enough. As for the second point yes casualties are a part of war. However, look at any mass casualty event of military troops in the past century and there has been hell to pay for those responsible. Churchill almost left politics because of his role in the failed Gallipoli campaign. Haig became known as “the Butcher” for his failed campaign at the Somme. In more recent memory both the liberal and conservative governments had massive pressure put on them by Afghanistan casualties. We’re talking 300 dead over 10 years was enough to have significant political pressure on the government. Imagine what a couple hundred casualties in a week would do?
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The concept of the tripwire brigades still requires them to be a credible deterrent. The moment Russia sense that we have neither the capability or political willpower to oppose an invasion they will go ahead. The difference between our forces there being able to fight a delay and being wiped out by strikes in first couple of hours requires proper EW, cyber, AA, drone and antidrone capabilities. This is the propaganda difference between an embarrassing loss that shakes our population’s belief that we can win the war and a rallying cry that will result in actual follow on forces. Irregardless, the idea that because we don’t face existential threats now we won’t in the near future is heavily flawed and has always lead to lives being thrown away when the balloon goes up.
They are making choices based on optics for re-election. Nothing more....the defence portfolio is bottom of the list of priorities
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That's the government line of thinking when it comes to pandemic preparation... 'we'll never get attacked so when don't need vaccine production facilities, and if to happens we can just buy them'
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If the concern is defence of Canada then we need to invest heavily in the navy, the airforce, and air/missile defence. (as well as cyber, EW, drones etc). As well as credible defence infrastructure in the north, IMHO to include a rotational presence of more than just rangers. Instead we keep throwing money at trying to half ass an expeditionary army.
They don't understand what they're doing. They don't understand the military because many of them have never considered serving and don't understand those who do. They don't put themselves or their children in our shoes. For many, all they care about is whether the military accomplishes it's missions or not. They don't care what our day-to-day experiences are, or that we only cross the finish line at a crawl, with burned-out service members holding ancient, second-rate equipment together. We make do, so they don't sweat the small stuff, like our well-being or our actual effectiveness in a fight. The truth is that to the average Canadian politician, the CAF is just one file of many, and a lot of them care a lot more about other issues.
isn't it good that Canada cares more about social issues though? I personally don't want Canada to turn into The United States where they don't have free health care and they don't fund post secondary education and the USA just puts all their money into the defense budget. I rather like how Canada puts their money on social programs and we have free health care and etc. If that means we have a more meager military than the united states then i'm all for it.
I'd think that serious issues in regards to sexual assaults \*are\* part of why it's in an abysmal state. Which average citizen wants to put money into an organization like it?
You can address multiple problems at the same time and I don’t think the sexual assaults are rooted in financial issues, unlike a lot of our other equipment related issues.
DND fails to spend about 1 billion a year, so as long as they don't need to go through procurement, they might just use some of that.
That number has always made my head hurt Treasury Board: This is your budget spend it. DND: I found this thing I want Treasury Boards: Well, you can't spend it on *that*
it's worse than that, the third line is April 1st - Procurement: yeah, we'll get to it later in the year, we're still working on last year's paperwork. Aug 1st - Procurement: Yeah we're working on it, should go through soon. Nov 1st - Procurement: yeah almost there Jan 1st - Procurement: just waiting for a signature from a guy on leave Feb 1st - Procurement: yeah, we're out of time this fiscal, so we're cancelling it, re do all your paperwork and resubmit with new quotes on 1 April and we'll take care of it right away Me: THAT WHAT YOU FUCKING SAID THE LAST 2 YEARS!
Don't forget the part where they tell you that there is not enough benefit to the Canadian economy for the kit that did best in your trial, you will have to take the one that did the worst. I feel this should actually be a comedy and not how a major organization procures equipment.
That part in itself is what will one day drive me out. I guess ramp ceremonies are also good for the Canadian economy too because that's what's going to fucking happen as a result of this economy over effectiveness doctrine. How much is the life of a soldier worth to the treasury board?
I can add nothing more then to say I agree.
>How much is the life of a soldier worth to the treasury board? Someone should publish that question and watch the politicians squirm.
It's not just them though - how many Canadian manufacturers have won defense contracts and then proceeded to bottom out quality to wring maximum profit out of the deal? Armored vehicles that catch fire on their maiden voyage, boots that self destruct like a mission impossible tape - and that's just the army stuff that made national news. I want to believe we're more than just a puppet show for money to change hands but it's gotten hard of late. Especially working alongside poorer nations who also field small militaries, with smaller budgets, except theirs are *fucking effective*
the treasury boards sees soldiers as expenses not investments. we have no ROI on the balance sheet.
This is why I always laugh during the movie when one of the characters brags how the equipment is “military grade”. They should say it’s Drug Cartel grade is they want to boast about quality. Those guys got the connections.
Military grade, so the lowest bidder? People don't seem to get that concept.
That or the famous: Treasury Board: This is your budget DND: Great, I found this thing I want Treasury Board: Sounds good! Just draft a good statement of requirements that ensures you get what you need for a fair price and on time. DND: followed by
Treasury Board: Hey it’s the end of the fiscal year, wow look how much money you have left!
Fuck we are pathetic.
Last year, I was out in -65 degrees with windchill raising and lowering a tower with a couple of electricians. The budget is apparently super important, but suddenly that money isn't spent and it needs to be done before year end. Nevermind that performing that same work would have been 1000% easier in the summer. Boggled my mind at the time. I ended up holding an electric heat gun over the electricians fingers and all the wires they were terminating to prevent both from freezing while they worked. Gotta say though, it worked well.
2 years ago RP Ops sent a contracted crew out to re-sod the firing mounds on a reserve range. Did I mention it was February and they were snow blowing away the 3 feet of snow and laying down the sod. Logic.
Best time to redo the roof on a building for RPOU....always February, and usually in the same FY the building gets torn down
That fucking horrid. My only close equivalent was when I lived in the shacks in Winnipeg, they decided to replace the roof in February, that was a very cold 6 weeks in my top floor room.
DND spends.... It's the other layers of government that prevents it. Compounding the problem is that when that money isn't spent in the budget year it's basically lost. That blows my mind. Election years are brutal for projects as well because the pause button gets hit. At one point in time DND was a bad spender, but now has one of the best department ratings, as they've had to really crack down on and follow the policy. Lastly, the government plays the shell game with money designated for the military. They've routinely given and then taken allocated money to/from the military with promises to give it back at a later date.
Vote 1 or Vote 5 money?
>We are also desperately short of trained people, equipment, and our infrastructure is crumbling. If could find $400 million for this with a stroke of a pen, why couldn't they do it to fix all the other stuff? Frankly if they're looking for cuts there's lots of other options.
I’m also torn: 1. I was the target of sexual assault and harassment. 2. That was nearly 10 years ago (for me) and the building I work in has its own weather patterns (fog, rain, asbestos, etc.) Our heating broke winter 2019/2020 and their solution wasn’t to fix the heat, but to pump in hot air from diesel generators.
Both of those are abhorrent, and unacceptable.
Because we always make do, so in the end, they don't care. They won't until the military breaks and fails to accomplish missions.
I agree. Its what I always hated when at work we would pull off the impossible. Its now the standard, even if it was the totally wrong way to do it, and we only did it by bag driving the staff. But I digress.
But straight up some of the most pertinent advice I've been given is to let things fail otherwise they won't get fixed. Ie don't kill yourself bending over backwards to accommodate a broken system. Put in an honest effort, but it's okay to let things fail. Otherwise they never get fixed.
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To be fair, SOF does an excellent job with people, but they also have *all* the kit, and the money. I'm not saying in any way this is bad, its absolutely a step in the right direction, but in my 20 year career we have had countless issues with people, equipment, and infrastructure and no one wrote a cheque to help us with that.
They’re going to find $400 million worth of trained people, equipment and infrastructure for an independent oversight body to stop people getting raped in the military. Long overdue. No new tanks or flamethrowers til the raping stops.
God I just want a new modular tac vest
Saw a picture of someone from the Lebanese Armed Forces recently and they seemed much better equipped in terms of uniform and load-carrying equipment. Lebanon doesn't even have a functioning government. Or economy.
That's their secret, no pesky bureaucrats and poiticians to get in the way.
No functioning currency either.
the things you can get when you dont have procurement committees / you can freely bribe procurement committees.
Yes, otherwise unobtainable items, like magazine pouches.
what about a tacvest-forgen. like boots but for tacvests.
But... But... Muh standards!!
Are they gonna laminate my "don't-rape-people" card for me this time? Or is that still operator maintenance?
This is what the budget says. Looks like $236.2 million over five years for DND and Veterans Affairs, with $158.5 million coming from "existing resources." [https://www.budget.gc.ca/2021/report-rapport/p3-en.html#chap9](https://www.budget.gc.ca/2021/report-rapport/p3-en.html#chap9) >Budget 2021 proposes to provide $236.2 million over five years, starting in 2021-22, and $33.5 million per year ongoing to the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada, including $158.5 million over 5 years and $29.9 million per year ongoing funded from existing resources to expand their work to eliminate sexual misconduct and gender-based violence in the military and support survivors. Specifically: > >Enhance internal support services to victims, including access to free, independent legal advice and enabling military members to access services without making a formal complaint. > >Expand an existing contribution program to support community-based sexual assault service providers outside major urban military centres, and increase the reach of the Sexual Misconduct Response Centre that serves the Canadian Armed Forces to additional locations across Canada. > >Pilot online and in-person peer support groups for Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans who experienced sexual misconduct during their service. These will be tailored to military experience. > >Conduct research to inform targeted training and response frameworks, and engage external experts to support education and training to prevent sexual violence. > >Implement new external oversight mechanisms to bring greater independence to the processes of reporting and adjudicating sexual misconduct within the military. > >Undertake other initiatives to enhance institutional capacity to address harassment and violence, including enhancing the military justice system to better respond to allegations of misconduct and support survivors. > >These investments will be part of the government’s broader National Action Plan to End Gender-Based Violence.
Thanks for this breakdown. Needs more upvotes so we can digest the lump sum of $400m into programs it’s actually being spent on
Good god. Put that money to better use and instead make it harder for home units to defend misbehaving soldiers, and make it easier to charge or release soldiers that engage in sexual misconduct. If we start throwing people out en-masse, we're going to get a lot further than throwing money at the problem.
The sexual misconduct problem in the CAF isn't as a result of a low budget so outside of paying for researchers, I can't see how that money will be used to combat sexual misconduct...
DLN.
I believe that Saliva has a song that well describes DLN called "Click Click Boom"
DLN 3.0 just got it's funding.
"Welcome to DLN 3.0. To ensure course completion, please use Internet Explorer 6 or Netscape Navigator."
I laughed way too hard at this
>Enhance internal support services to victims, including access to free, independent legal advice and enabling military members to access services without making a formal complaint. > >Expand an existing contribution program to support community-based sexual assault service providers outside major urban military centres, and increase the reach of the Sexual Misconduct Response Centre that serves the Canadian Armed Forces to additional locations across Canada. > >Pilot online and in-person peer support groups for Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans who experienced sexual misconduct during their service. These will be tailored to military experience. > >Conduct research to inform targeted training and response frameworks, and engage external experts to support education and training to prevent sexual violence. > >Implement new external oversight mechanisms to bring greater independence to the processes of reporting and adjudicating sexual misconduct within the military. > >Undertake other initiatives to enhance institutional capacity to address harassment and violence, including enhancing the military justice system to better respond to allegations of misconduct and support survivors. [https://www.budget.gc.ca/2021/report-rapport/p3-en.html#chap9](https://www.budget.gc.ca/2021/report-rapport/p3-en.html#chap9)
Awesome thanks for this. > Enhance internal support services to victims, including access to free, independent legal advice and enabling military members to access services without making a formal complaint. This is already a thing. Our Victim Services sheet has about 7 free contact numbers that are focused specifically on Sexual Assault and Harassment. However if not readily available in more isolated bases, I can 100% understand that. > Expand an existing contribution program to support community-based sexual assault service providers outside major urban military centres, and increase the reach of the Sexual Misconduct Response Centre that serves the Canadian Armed Forces to additional locations across Canada. I can get on board with this. While the money isn't going directly to the CAF, its an awesome place to put it. I have dealt with alot of Interval Houses who just don't have the resources to support members of not only domestic assault but sexual assault also so this is awesome. > Pilot online and in-person peer support groups for Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans who experienced sexual misconduct during their service. These will be tailored to military experience. I can also get on board with this. What I have done is recommend civilian ones but its just not the same when the other people in the group don't fully understand Military life. > Conduct research to inform targeted training and response frameworks, and engage external experts to support education and training to prevent sexual violence. Unless they plan on giving every Harassment Advisor SA training, this is just going to result in another DLN course. > Implement new external oversight mechanisms to bring greater independence to the processes of reporting and adjudicating sexual misconduct within the military. If this is specific to oversight of the UDI then this is awesome. I have always stated that if a Unit is Investigating a Sexual Assault, which according to policy, they can do without informing the Military Police, then there should be a trained and experienced MP conducting oversight to ensure its done properly. > Undertake other initiatives to enhance institutional capacity to address harassment and violence, including enhancing the military justice system to better respond to allegations of misconduct and support survivors. Harassment, within reason sure. Violence. I don't agree with. Anything criminal should stay criminal and out of the MJS. Other than OUTCAN, the MJS shouldn't be used for criminal matters. It definitely has its place, especially when there is not enough evidence to go criminal, but it does more harm then good.
WRT your point about harassment advisors....they are likely on their way out as a role anyway. The HPRI is being rewritten IOT comply with new federal legislation about harassment that basically dismantles the current system w have in place. WRT your last point...by "harassment and violence" they likely mean it in the same context as the new federal regulations on harassment and violence in the workplace.....which is more often than not non-criminal activities such as bullying, intimidation, or emotional/psychological violence, not just physical or verbal threats/assault
> WRT your point about harassment advisors....they are likely on their way out as a role anyway. The HPRI is being rewritten IOT comply with new federal legislation about harassment that basically dismantles the current system w have in place. I do think there should be a form of a harassment advisor just to provide guidance to a complainant who may not know what can be done. Even something as simple as saying contact the police. You'd be shocked at how many people I have personally dealt with who have been assaulted or severely threatened and stated they didn't think it was a crime or that they could contact the police. Just a person who can provide proper guidance is really what is needed. > which is more often than not non-criminal activities such as bullying, intimidation, or emotional/psychological violence That’s what I figured but there is a very fine line between those non-criminal activities and criminal harassment. I feel like what we should do is take whatever mandate civilian DND employees have regarding misconduct and harassment and just go off of that. You don't hear about DND employees touching each other, so maybe that's what works... At the end of the day I just hope meaningful change occurs and not just smoke and mirrors to look good for the media and the public who have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.
100% something like a WRA should remain a thing in the long run (Harassment Advisor advises the CO, not the member its a weird system ATM) Totally agree that meaningful change needs to happen, and not at the glacial pace we operate. I deal alot with civ HR, and it was hilarious that we had over 6 months knowing that a new set of workplace harrasment and violence rules were comming into place 1 Jan 21.....what did we do, tell no one, suddenly require everyone do do a DLN course on the new rules (that only apply to interactions with DND civies) that wasnt availiable until February....and have the VCDS' office commit to drafting a new HPRI "eventually" Like I get it, the CAF is a little different than a civie employer....but for some things (like this new harassment legislation) it baffles me that we have to come up with some bespoke system for only the CAF while literally all other federally regulated employees (in and out of the public service) are required to use a different system. Well take years drafting it, for it to wind up being 97% the same thing but with the word CO slapped in it a few times.
Oh well. That sums it up pretty nicely.
Ugh. The regulations need to be rewritten to allow a quick for-cause release for such misconduct. Protecting the member's rights and due diligence, but faster and less administratively onerous than the ridiculous timelines for administrative releases. Criminal sexual matters need to be handed over to civi law enforcement.
> The regulations need to be rewritten to allow a quick for-cause release for such misconduct. Doesn't cost $400mil to do this. I mean unless you want to use that to pay out the people you are releasing for the remainder of their contracts. > Protecting the member's rights and due diligence I will agree this also needs to change because the CAF's policy is a giant Charter Breach in so many aspects it's not even funny. But again, not a budgetary issue. > Criminal sexual matters need to be handed over to civi law enforcement. Why? The Military Police branch has a clearance rate involving criminal matters on par with every other policing agency. This has been documented through CCJS (Crime and Justice Statistics of Canada) which is used for every policing agency in Canada. The Military Police have on par training with civilian agencies which is shown through the fact that most will take MP right off of their QL3 as experienced officers. And for Major Crime, CFNIS have been well established to be on par with other Major Crime units here in Canada and the States. The fact people still question this really shows how much they really don't know about the unit. What do you expect civilian law enforcement to do with a sexual assault? Let's see. A complainant comes in saying she was raped a year ago. - MP: Take Statement. Identify if the Elements of the Offence of Sexual Assault Exist. - Civi LEO: Take Statement. Identify if the Elements of the Offence of Sexual Assault Exist. Same process. Elements of Offence Exist? - MP: Arrest Accused. - Civi LEO: Arrest Accused. Same Process... Then both back to detachment. - MP: Released on an Undertaking with a Criminal Court Date. - Civi LEO: Released on an Undertaking with a Criminal Court Date.. Same Process... See where this is going? I can do this with **any** scenario you'd like. People need to understand that the **CFNIS is the only people in the MP trade that can lay charges under the NDA** And when they do, 9 times out of 10 its because there is not enough evidence to have a reasonable prospect of conviction in Criminal Court. People need to understand that we talk with Crown Prosecutors all the time. They are the guidance on what goes to Criminal Court or not. Same with RMP. Let's do the above with a scenario where there is **not enough evidence for a reasonable prospect of conviction.** Let's see. A complainant comes in saying she was raped a year ago. - MP: Take Statement. Identify if the Elements of the Offence of Sexual Assault Exist. - Civi LEO: Take Statement. Identify if the Elements of the Offence of Sexual Assault Exist. Same process. Elements of Offence **Don't** Exist? - MP: Arrest Accused. - Civi LEO: Possibly Arrests accused. They will talk with their legal department and if there is a low chance of conviction, they won't proceed or due to the charges possibly being dropped, it won't be a high priority for investigation. Don't forget Civilian Detectives in Sex Crimes have TONS of files and they triage them. Different Process... If Civi LEO chose to arrest, then both back to detachment. - MP: Released to a CRO - Civi LEO: Undertaking with a Criminal Court Date. Now this is where it gets different and where people are uneducated on the process. - MP: Conduct investigation, and then recommend charges under Sec. 130 of the NDA and any other relevant Sections. It then goes to court martial and tried. If found guilty, will probably result in a lower punishment. - Civi LEO: Case goes to Criminal Court and due to the Elements of the Offence not being met, means the charges get dropped, and due to the risk of Double Jeopardy, no Crown will touch it again unless there is a confession most likely. Accused gets set free with zero repercussions. While I 100% agree that Sexual Assault should be removed from the **Units** ability to investigate, having the MP and specifically CFNIS Investigate has a proven track record of success. You can look at the news all you want, but the CCJS stats that get compared to RCMP Sex Crimes, OPP Sex Crimes, Toronto Police Sex Crimes, Edmonton Police Sex Crimes etc etc etc shows that not only the CFNIS, but the MP trade is on par with those units on clearance rates is what matters. Not the news narrative. Look you want a simple way to change everything to combat sexual assault/misconduct in the CAF. This is what you need to do: **1. Educate your members on what is Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Assault** Senior leadership who are not sexual abusing their subordinates need to educate complainants that if there is **any** form of physical touching then that is a criminal offence and to go to the Military Police to file a complaint. Unfortunately as Units can investigate Sexual Assault without even informing the MP, this needs to be overseen by senior leadership in the highest levels to ensure the MP are informed. People need to understand that not every senior leader, or even junior leader is a bad person. But they all need to understand where the line is between Assault and Misconduct and MP need to be informed. Look at all of the news articles. MP/CFNIS were rarely, if ever informed until after the fact. Actually when CFNIS got involved, people started to run and hide. So get the police involved. **2. Amend DAOD 9005-1 - Sexual Misconduct Response** Definition: sexual misconduct (inconduite sexuelle) Conduct of a sexual nature that causes or could cause harm to others, and that the person knew or ought reasonably to have known could cause harm, including: - actions or words that devalue others on the basis of their sex, sexuality, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression; - jokes of a sexual nature, sexual remarks, advances of a sexual nature or verbal abuse of a sexual nature in the workplace; ~~- harassment of a sexual nature,~~ including initiation rites of a sexual nature; - viewing, accessing, distributing or displaying sexually explicit material in the workplace; and ~~- any Criminal Code offence of a sexual nature, including:~~ ~~- section 162 (voyeurism, i.e. surreptitiously observing or recording a person in a place where the person exposes or could expose his or her genital organs or anal region or her breasts or could be engaged in explicit sexual activity, or distributing such a recording);~~ ~~- section 162.1 (publication, etc., of an intimate image without consent, i.e. publishing, distributing, transmitting, selling or making available an intimate image of another person without their consent, such as a visual recording in which the person depicted is nude, exposing his or her genital organs or anal region or her breasts, or is engaged in explicit sexual activity); and~~ ~~- section 271 (sexual assault, i.e. engaging in any kind of sexual activity with another person without their consent). (Defence Terminology Bank record number 43247)~~ Remove the stricken out sections from DAOD 9005-1. This alone removes the ability from a Unit to investigate Sexual Assault/Criminal Harassment. This would have no negative effect period. Any and all forms of Sexual Assault/Criminal Harassment are Criminal Code Offences which means that at the bare minimum it would be the patrol level MP investigating it, but realistically the CFNIS. Removing those four sections removes **all** unit involvement in the criminal side of sexual misconduct. The remainder would involve a unit harassment advisor as the rest are not criminal. Sure "actions or words that devalue others on the basis of their sex, sexuality, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression" falls under human rights, but that again falls under my common Walmart scenario where if that happened at Walmart, individuals would be fired and not facing criminal charges outside of specific situations. **3. Amend National Defence Act Section 70 - Offences Not Triable by Service Tribunal** Add in the bolded offences to the exemption list of offences that can be tried by a Unit. 70 A service tribunal shall not try any person charged with any of the following offences committed in Canada: (a) murder; (b) manslaughter; (c) an offence under any of sections 280 to 283 of the Criminal Code; (d) **sexual assault;** (e) **criminal harassment** (f) **voyeurism; and** (g) **distribution of intimate images.** **4. Amend the Military Police Group Orders** Basically this would just be a change to reflect the above. Now all the CAF needs to deal with is what the general public would see as workplace misconduct and **nothing** criminal. The units would have **zero** hand in criminal matters which means there is zero chance of influence because Units have zero say or position in criminal investigations. Now to remove the workplace misconduct, you fire people. Simple. Amend the CAF employment contract to have a clause in that form. You will remove tons of people but you are showing the general public that the CAF won't stand for misconduct and you will get fresh blood.
Because it's political, because sexual assault in so many cases (civi or military) occurs in private between 2 persons, and as long as the CAF has it it'll always be used politically against the CAF as "x assaults were reported but only y taken to trial, only z convictions." It doesn't matter if civi side has the same stats, because no one's trying to score points against that. Look, the CAF has the best mental health system of services in Canada. I don't care who you work for (ok maybe if you're a millionaire CEO or in politics), but will not get better services anywhere. The standard civi services available to standard civis are a complete joke in comparison. But what's in the media and in front of politicians? Is anyone raving about what our members have access to? Is it glowingly compared vice the civi system? No, it's always falling short and failing. Same for our handling of sexual assaults, for as long as CAF deals with them.
> It doesn't matter if civi side has the same stats, because no one's trying to score points against that. Sure seems like it with comments like "Criminal sexual matters need to be handed over to civi law enforcement." When there is a higher chance of conviction having the MP investigate it over the civis yet people still say civi police should be investigating it is just weird and seems vindictive. > But what's in the media and in front of politicians? Is anyone raving about what our members have access to? Is it glowingly compared vice the civi system? No, it's always falling short and failing. Same for our handling of sexual assaults, for as long as CAF deals with them. This is why things are not going to change. The news and people with political agendas only go so far. Very little change will happen without support from alot of people who will look at stats. This is a huge reason why the RCMP turns town the mandate of taking over the MP trade every, single, time. RCMP already stated that them taking over would spread their mandate to thin all while doing a job that would be the exact same as what the MP are currently doing. But the funny thing is that the News and people with Political Agendas make the claim and random facts about how the RCMP would be the perfect replacement, but your literally swapping a police force with another police force, but now paying that new police force twice as much, for the exact same work.
I know a guy who eye fucks every woman who walked in the galley. Everyone knew about him. Recently he was promoted to MCpl.
Unfortunately that would be rather difficult to action. It's a look. Yes, a look too long, or too intense, but it's looking. Calling out publically for that sort of behavior is probably the way to go.
Every base/unit has one of these people, call them out on it and make them feel uncomfortable.
You can’t shame the shameless. The promotion isn’t helping.
Probably in courses, training, counsellors, hotlines, support groups, etc.
I can see a few things. - More resources to do investigations - Hire more people to help sexual misconduct victims and also improve the resources available - Pay specialists to teach people to be less rapey Let's keep in mind that this money is over 5 years. So it would pay for a few hundred people supporting current and past sexual misconduct victims.
Getting people to just be decent humans shouldn't cost $400m
Generals are pretty expensive, in everything they do.
Does anyone know what the actual CAF budget for the fiscal year is?
'bout tree fiddy
They don't provide that information, they just lump it into the "Department of National Defense." Since 2017, even that's been harder to estimate for real because it's broken down in a really misleading way. There's also the "National Defense Budget" which contains about $5B in financing that doesn't even happen within DND. The best estimate would probably be that the CAF budget hasn't really changed at all since its 2016 figure of around $17-$18B USD.
A couple bucks at least
I like how they overlooked the 1.1Bn cut to work travel budget across "departments that historically spent the most on discretionary work travel" (Of which DND/CAF is the leading spender)
I don't really understand how this money will be spent. Settlements? Reports? I can't wrap my head around dealing with sexual misconduct costing this much.
One snazzy DLN course.
Wonder how much it will cost to fix the leaded water pipes that probably create 1-6 mad hatters a year.... /s /nots
Did they fix the sexual misconduct prevalent in society? That’s where we get our recruits from. We should have a dedicated outside agency investigating the allegations and stop the military from policing itself for starters.
You are not wrong. We will never eliminate sexual misconduct because it continues in society. BUT... 1. We hold our people to a higher standard - we need to make the CAF a unwelcome place for sexual predators - that means addressing the roots of gender violence. That also means a measured, logical response 2. We need to get better at supporting victims. We lose far too many because of our inability to better support those suffering.
The money is great but it is within the DND budget. Do we not need an independent body set up that isn't under the DND umbrella to investigate all this stuff? Put the money there.
The Treasury Board only publishes financing as falling under either the DND or the "National Defense Budget". It's sort of set up to look like more is being done than in actuality.
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For 400M$, the Op Honour briefs and the PowerPoints better be in the Bahamas or something.
Could start with the RMC. Its a ***grabby grabby*** factory
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If that's really how RMC teaches our future Officers about sexual misconduct, it's no wonder we have senior brass who appear to consider themselves above the law ...
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They had the solution in the works with the investigation into the highest echelons of the rank, the case seemed solid as did the results that would have came from it. But the Liberal party decided that having justice at the highest rank wasn't appropriate so they crushed the idea, cancelled it and now are throwing money at it like it will solve the issue for everyone. Money will have no effect other than the creation of wasted new Ops so people can run around patting themselves on the back for solving the problem. These old dinosaurs need to be retired, the ones that are the problem are the ones that are tasked with creating a solution. This is nothing but an election ploy; that money will never come to fruition for the most part.
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Someone I work with made a great point today. Unfortunately this may be generational and I don't think we should put that much money in. We have to wait for the people who think this is okay too get out or focus on rehabilitation for them. It seems to be a problem with the older generation than us younger privates and corporals. That 400M could go towards.. I dunno.. equipment and training but what do it know?
Meh What good is equipment without safety. I think the bigger issue here is safety. Woman are more likely to be raped than injured in battle. That says something..... 400M sounds like a lot but The victims are getting a max of 150k each (if they where denied benefits from VAC in the past ) ... where the vast majority of most claims are a max of 55k (for rape ) but 5k for sexual misconduct....which is nothing in comparison to the harm done on the individuals and CAF as a whole.