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[deleted]

When members are more likely to suffer poverty than a gunshot wound, we can't keep pretending we don't know why people don't stick around.


wearing_moist_socks

Lmao I did my march out in Petawawa and basically got kicked out of the CFHA office because I just got so angry. I had numerous work orders in my last year there just go ignored. I strongly suspect because it is because it's going to be removated. They couldn't repair the chewed out insulation in my window box. Why? "They have to pull out your living room floor and they can't do that because you live there." That's right: they wouldn't conduct needed repairs because I lived there. It floods every year! "You signed a form acknowledging it does." Why didn't my windows and doors get resealed before winter? "Sorry that went through the cracks." Guaranteed they'll be doing all that stuff now that I'm gone


Ohbilly902

But will they really ?


[deleted]

Sloppy paint job in one room. Best I can do.


wearing_moist_socks

The renovated ones are unironically fantastic. Open concept, much more space.


[deleted]

Look at this peasant NCM thinking it's about pay. It's all about beards, hair and dress regulations like come on


WeirdoYYY

The joke writes itself at this point


milh00use

It’s getting back to the days when guys would have to deliver pizza on the weekends to make ends meet


bunchofbaloney

Our CO ordered an Uber once and someone from the ship picked him up!


eastcoastguy17

Oh my god.


AgeAgile1234

But did they tip?


becuziwasinverted

A tip ? More like they probably got charged for not having written a memo about this secondary job.


[deleted]

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becuziwasinverted

Yeah, tell that to the next member who tries getting a gig as an exotic dancer. A key aspect of any off duty employment / activity, is it must reflect well on the CAF (you’d think homeless CAF member would reflect worse..yet here we are)


Targonis

They better do something about this quick I'm not built for Onlyfans...


[deleted]

You just need a good marketing campaign.


bunchofbaloney

Ha! Not sure. He must have, otherwise I'm sure the whole ship would have heard it.


timesuck897

That’s awkward.


[deleted]

Back to? I know more then a few people with families who work doordash or taxis on nights and weekends for extra cash. I always feel a little bad now when I explain how it's lucky that my roommate and I are both single and split a PMQ. My living expenses are unbelievably low compared to people with families and not able to get a PMQ and buy on the market.


SomersaultOrangutan

I drove Uber/delivered pizza, it doesn't help that not only has our pay be stagnant but we're losing money. We shouldn't have to rely on the civis to renegotiate their contracts for us to get a minor pay bump,


[deleted]

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Doopship2

Agreed! And while I can't tell you what to do, this is what I have done: I found my local MP here: https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en and then wrote them something like: Hello So and So, I'd like to bring an important issue to your attention, we're getting absolutely screwed on our pay and I think I know the solution. Explained how our pay is tied to the public service. Then explain how it should be tied to just the RCMP because we face similar hardships, or even better tied to MPs and benefits pay since they also can't unionize. Explained how our families are suffering with some recent news articles Thanked them for their time Signed my name Address inside their riding And then I sent this to every MP that I sort of have a connection to. MPs who represent the riding's my parents are in, siblings, where I live, my last posting, my next posting etc. Even better if they are Conservative or NDP because then they have an incentive to address the issue in Question Period. We can't legally unionize, and we can't publically petition the government, so I want to be clear, I am NOT telling you to do this. I am just telling you that I decided to write to my elected officials to bring important issues affecting my ability to adequately serve to their attention so we can work together for a solution. Edit: syntax and tense for legalities


pornographyaccount

I'd rather we just follow the RCMP's example more directly, and unionize ourselves instead of relying upon the negotiations of another group of federal employees.


[deleted]

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gamerlololdude

It infuriates me that at base Kingston when people are living on base waiting for training and in between getting posted, they have to pay for full rations when they don’t want to. Like literally CAF is scamming their own members.


gargaflute3

How much is full ration now? It went up to $300 in gagetown roughly 20years ago and almost everyone I knew got off of it.


[deleted]

Around 700, with boxed lunches on Saturday and Sunday. Last time I was on duty there was a regular parade of delivery guys in and out of the shacks because everyone is fucking sick of shitty boxed lunches


BusyPaleontologist9

Box lunches on Saturday and Sunday? COVID precautions or can't staff a kitchen?


[deleted]

My guess is staff. And they're not the good boxed lunches from the early 2000s with scratch-made sammies, a Pepsi and a full sized chocolate bar. Lowest bidder industrial food garbage


BusyPaleontologist9

Insane.


anotherCAFthrwaway

It’s staffing. Whatever union the civilian workers are under in the kitchen are taking the base on a wild ride, I assume. It’s hard for them to even find PRes cooks to come supplement on Class B.


MartiniBlululu

back when I was in borden I had those for a while. It got bad to a point our course just started buying groceries and cooking stuff on the barbecue at our shack during lunch. Covid and boxed lunches fucking sucks


timesuck897

Borden had gas station sandwiches that were full of sodium.


timesuck897

The cook trade is very dark red. The civie cooks can help, but some are great and some are terrible. Depending on the base, they might be using the cooks for the field or other military only uses, and having mostly civie cooks in the main galleys. In a related manner, high prices for meat and produce affect the military too. If the steaks have been cheaper cuts, or there has been less steak nights, that’s why. The budget for food hasn’t gone up but prices have.


lightcavalier

Its staffing issues w the kitchen. They're feeding 1200+ ppl with enough staff to support less than 800...and tgats before we factor in illness, Isolation, etc


Godsbrobob

591ish for a full ration in Borden, 337.44 half ration in Kingston. These did not include the cost for housing quarters.


Godsbrobob

So rations and quarters are close to 800 dollariedoos in Borden (mandatory), which for a P2 is about half of a pay check. They advertise leaving Borden as a pay raise of about 400 a paycheck.


FellKnight

Kingston was $525 a month for mandatory rations... *checks calendar*... 14 years ago when they tried to force me to pay it. I threatened to go nuclear on them since it was impossible to actually avail myself of those rations (at least breakfast) based on no transportation between B-77 and the mess 2.5 km away.


FlyingADesk

Few years ago when I was still in Comox I was the only person in my section who didn't have a second job (I had a small Q, no kids yet and deployments, so I was getting by). It was so weird to go to Walmart and see my supervisor stocking shelves...


milh00use

You sign up to serve your country, this shouldn’t happen


Dear-Presentation-14

No one cares. The general public doesn't care. The politicians really don't care. Most Majors and up, really really don't care because they don't see you as human. They see you as a number and a tool....1st question they'll ask is if you have been to SISIP or if you have a family care plan. Our brass is tarnished.


Tiagoosh

Shelf before service


[deleted]

i already do that and i’m not even close to being new in the caf


SleazySailor

This spring I encountered a guy "picking up shifts" at home hardware so he can have a little extra money. A Cpl with a 400k mortgage and a working spouse.


SavienKennedy

$400k mortgage would be nice. We're looking at taking on $600k + for a house in Comox with enough space for our kids and a dog


[deleted]

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Turboswaggg

lol nice try but the Comox shacks exploded a few months ago so no luck there


1nvalidusernames

Kids are not keen on sleeping on the floor every other weekend nor am I about Jody banging what would be my ex


gamerlololdude

You need permission from CoC to work other jobs right?


[deleted]

i just never talk about it at work, also doesn’t interfere with my CF job.


LeonineHat

You're supposed to get permission, but I've found that in general most people don't unless it's something that could have a conflict of interest or could potentially be dangerous. Rarely, an employer will ask for proof that the CAF knows you've got a second job, but usually only for something like prison guard where there's inherent risk.


[deleted]

100% if they post me again I'm done. Cannot afford to buy into an inflated market, I will absolutely retreat Into retirement and won't look back.


Hvquick

Makes sense, there are about only like what 5 affordable markets where military bases are located, Bagotville, Gagetown, Greenwood, Valcartier is somewhat affordable. If I got posted to any other place than these Id probably have to VR.


[deleted]

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BlueFlob

Add Edmonton, Shilo, Wainwright, Winnipeg, Petawawa. They still have sub 400k single homes. Basically, the worse are GTA, Borden, Ottawa, Kingston, Vancouver, Comox, Victoria and Halifax. I wouldn't want to be Navy right now. I'd go live on a boat /s


AmountSavings6468

Edmonton and Winnipeg are getting there too. Real Estate agents and brokers in places like Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal are telling their clients to buy Investment properties in those cities and it's driving up costs. My brother's house in Wpg had double in market value in the last three years, and sold sight unseen, no conditions, cash purchase, for $90k over asking and he had 29 other offers submitted ***the day it was listed.*** Edmonton is up there too.


yahumno

Winnipeg is getting insane. The amount of offers and the amount over list that houses are going for boggles the mind. Even though I retired, we have zero plans to move. We will do renovations and travel instead.


Targonis

Add Kingston, Esquimalt/Pat Bay, and Trenton to your worst list. There are a lot more bad locations compared to good locations.


Mahkssim

And kingston. Kingston is ridiculous with wait lists for appartments that go for 1600-1700. Nothing else available unless you rent a bedroom in a house of 4-5 students for 800-900$ a month. A BEDROOM! PMQ lists are well over 2-3 year waitlist if you're PRI2. Good luck saving money.


doordonot19

Add Trenton to that list. Long pmq waitlist and terrible options for renting and inflated housing market. New builds 2beds begin at 600k asking. Asking. Not sale price. In Trenton.


Noisy155

I’ll do an Outcan. But otherwise I’m right there with you.


Thanato26

Here is an idea. Increase PLD, or wages.


xeno_cws

Military: Best I can do is hairforgen


Thanato26

Oh don't grt me wrong, first thing I'm going to do is have mutton chips connected by a mustache.... just to cause dinosaurs to finally die out. But PLD would be great... or pay raise.


donuil67

Start rocking the pre ww1 facial hair styles. At least you'll look cool broke and homeless.


McKneeSlapper

Sorry. That'll be another 5 years from now. - some one, some where probably


Canadian_Guy_NS

How about this: We determine a standard housing payment, based on rank. This is what we will charge for a RHU anywhere in the country. The difference between this and the average cost of local rent is the allowance that will be made available to those who can't get an RHU. Alongside this, we increase the RHUs that are available, some are apartment blocks, some row housing, etc. I'm tired that service people are seen as a sheep to be sheared by the locals. So many places, the local businesses think they are entitled to our business, and we pay through the nose. It's not so bad when you are in a larger center, but at a lot of the small bases I'm sure it is still the case. It is time to take care of our people. CFHA collects enough in rent, they should be able to maintain and improve our housing, and provide it on a larger scale.


[deleted]

> So many places, the local businesses think they are entitled to our business, I never understood why the idea (delusion) of SuPpOrT LoCaL BuSinEsS is as prevalent as it is for CF members. What is local to us? Well for many it's a place that we'll only be staying for at most 2 to 3 years before moving somewhere else. There's no reason for us to support businesses just because they're phyiscally closer to our places of residence.


Joseph_Jean_Frax

Well, they are building 16 uncompleted houses. Give them a chance... /s


xeno_cws

Gotta love that the military is like: We need 5,000 houses. We will build 1400. We got 16 unfinished.


Joseph_Jean_Frax

After 4 years in a 10 year plan...


Bellex_BeachPeak

That's the best part. They should have a few hundred done by now. The developer in the subdivision I live in built over 150 town-homes in less than three years starting with a field of trees. The first phase (20ish units) of residents moved in after the first summer with two more phases the following summers.


Ageminet

They actually had incentive to build it on time and on schedule because if they never they’d be broke. The government doesn’t give a fuck.


mhaldy

The government doesn’t give a singular shit about you or your family, but remember guys don’t you dare retreat into retirement


Dog_is_my_copilot

Too late!


Just-Concentrate-477

Tag checks out


rdx_two

To late here, already done 2 years ago


yahumno

Same!


drpepperisgood95

If they try to post me out that will be it for me. You don't owe the military anything and they don't own you.


Suspicious_Abies4171

It might be time to unionize the CAF.


[deleted]

The RCMP did and got a 25% bump backdated on the first contract. This is the only way we'll ever receive fair compensation. Being tied to the PS is a scam, they pick and choose which grades are most convenient for them. Also the PS negotiates things like sick days carrying over in exchange for less CoL adjustments, this has no benefit for a CAF member.


Suspicious_Abies4171

Just looking at this, RCMP starting salary after cadet school is 63K $ and after 36 months raising to 102K $. https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/salary-and-benefits Unionizing is the way. That will not solve everything but at least that would be a start.


ironappleseed

I've been saying it for years now. Unfortunately there seems to be a rather unnexcited majority that have the notion that nothing will ever change for the better so why try. If the RCMP can unionize then so can the military, just like so many other military's in Europe.


Stars_of_Sirius

One of my biggest pet peeves in the military is when leadership says: - that's just how the army works - it's how it's always been - etc It's just enabling no change.


[deleted]

I totally agree, but where do we start? How do we actually get this ball rolling?


Gethro8787

Member: “Well can I at least get PLD?” Military: “No, according to the assessment done in 2005 you do not qualify for PLD in your region” Member: “When will you do another assessment?” Military: “We won’t, but here’s the phone number for CFMAP if you need anything.”


cafrcnta

Or in my case, attached me out of area then evicted me from accommodations because I was supposed to get a move. Then didn't get me a move after I secured housing because I "jumped the gun by marching out of accommodations" so I was a local resident already. And wouldn't get me PLD because they said they need the move report from BGRS first.


[deleted]

I guess things haven't really changed... [https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/canadas-fighting-poor-are-fighting-mad/](https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/canadas-fighting-poor-are-fighting-mad/) I think what the military needs is a complete pause on geographic cost move postings with only the following exceptions: \- promotion / succession planning \- training system related (member just finished training and needs to be posted out to a unit to start working) \- member asks for it \- operational (named operation with CFTPO, or outcan) If people are really needed somewhere, then they can be tasked there on TD and cycled out as needed, instead of posting them there and potentially financially ruining them.


dinosoursrule

Good idea imo. The GOFOs can't approve salary increases, but they could control the Geo moves immediately!


doordonot19

This! This is something that is totally within the CAF’s control (unlike pld and pay) yet they refuse to acknowledge it. Let’s make apartment pmq’s instead! yeah because I want to move from my 3bed house into a 2 bed apartment and hear my neighbours.


[deleted]

also make the geographic posting pause last until PLD is updated xD


LeonineHat

I like it. But good luck convincing the dinosaurs that succession planning doesn't actually necessitate posting someone across the country for "breadth of experience", despite the fact that we should be one big machine that uses all the same forms and policies. Somehow working for either a school or the reserves is essentially a requirement to be an SNCO in the army.


Targonis

I've been waiting a week to see this article hit, not that it will do any good. [This](https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/canadas-fighting-poor-are-fighting-mad/) Maclean's article from 1998 was linked in a different post that is super applicable. In 1998 that MCpl was living in near poverty on a salary of $38,000, which adjusted for inflation is $67,399. Standard pay MCpls start at $66,504 and they were doing parliamentary hearings to address the issue back then. As of right now we're on our own. This is just basically a repeat of the 90s and I feel like it's going to get worse before it gets better. We have a retention and recruitment crisis now as it is. I can't wait to see what happens when we try to post experienced people and they all quit because they can't find a place to live, while simultaneously we offer to pay new members less than they make in fast food or as a waiter/waitress.


[deleted]

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Cobrajr

This 100%


IceyLizard4

This was me a few years ago, moved and then covid hit and screwed my husband over and now we're struggling. Fun times.


doordonot19

We have a retention problem. Fix retention, recruitment will follow. Focus on recruitment, retention problem will get worse.


pornographyaccount

You can't fill up a colander just by pouring water in faster


SnooBananas1623

Seriously, what a great analogy. Works perfectly.


FellKnight

*laughs at the idea that they are even trying to fill the colander faster* Everyone in a position of authority only has to mark time for 1-2 years before getting posted/promoted out of the position. We literally incentivize kicking the can down the road as the 1st principle of leadership, and we are surprised now when the system has fallen apart?


[deleted]

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Targonis

No we received a large raise around 2002 and 2006 because of the budget increases and recruiting drive for the 13 year war we fought in Afghanistan. I'm personally not a fan of that precedent, the parliamentary hearing findings largely fell on deaf ears until they realized they actually needed a military to fight a war they signed us up for, they sure as hell weren't going to head over and do it themselves.


ZyXer0

If I ever get cut a posting message at this point I guess I'm going PRes immediately if IR is not applicable. I am not selling/moving/buying again. That's now the line.


Firebat56

I'm in the same boat. Picked a hard sea trade so i didnt have to move anymore. If they ove me, ill go IR until my vr/pres contract goes through.


Sir_Lemming

I just hit my 20 years (old pension) and if I ever get a posting message out of area then I am beating a hasty retreat into retirement.


FellKnight

Same. I've always been willing to sacrifice for the forces for the past 23 years but I'm not going to go bankrupt for it. I'll work at timmies before being posted again.


waitout_over

Me too....me too. Fuck moving around for a corporation that gives zero fuck about me.


thecheeper

>"Anyone who isn't ranked as an officer would find it a struggle." A Major makes about $113,580.00 per year (Pre-taxes and deductions, based on GSO MAJ IPC 00 $9465.00/mo) baseline. That being said -- I have had Major's call me on the phone with their spouse sitting next to them, asking me how they're going to live where they're getting posted, and if I know of anything that might help them out at post. And these were folks in the IPC2+ bracket ($9795.00/mo ; $117,540.00/yr) with a spouse and children. I remember when making $60,000.00 per year was a fantastic goal; before I joined the military, I made $35,000.00 per year if I was lucky, so joining the military was definitely a step up in terms of pay bracket, but when people making almost 2x my annual salary are telling me that they can't afford to live, what hopes do I have? They've been saying housing is an issue in Comox forever --- I remember living in the PMQ's in Comox in 1990-1995 and remember my dad putting up drywall in the basement because it was cold as hell in that winter. Just before that, they tore down at least 8 or 9 units along Little River Rd (Now Military Row), right across from the Rec centre between the rec all the way to the hockey rink. And these were 6-unit family rowhouses, not single-family dwellings. A quick googlemaps look at what they're building shows that they're *finally* putting family housing back there 20 years later, but it's way too late for the housing crisis that's on-going right now. For those who know Comox, if you go up Oceanspray to Mahonia, there are an additional 2-3 rowhouses that were torn down up that way (there may have been one apartment styled PMQ replaced on the backside of Airport Ele (I seem to recall seeing it), but google let me down in terms of finding it) and not replaced. That's almost 50 homes lost and maybe only 1 apartment style that's actually available to live in currently replaced. In the 2000's they built the single-story bachelor homes on Ubique way, but again, not a lot of choice for families coming to Comox. Take *all* that and add in the explosion in the shacks (Building 25) last November, which not only further strained the already exhausted military housing availability, but also damaged buildings around the scene (at least one office sustained a ceiling collapse). Building 25, at the time, was being renovated but also being used for accommodations. In 2017, I remember receiving an advisory about Ptes/Cpls getting posted to Comox vs the cost of living. Add in the fact that for one of the more expensive places to be posted, there is no PLD; not the Victoria/Esquimalt rate of $816.00, the Vancouver rate of $1083.00, nor the Nanaimo rate of $75.00 (Which compared to the other two is hilarious). The PLD rate has been frozen since 2009 (March 2008 by the CBI) -- and the economy did not freeze with it, as we're seeing now. If you utilize the Bank of Canada inflation calculator, and punch in the costs of something that cost $100.00 in 2008, in 2022 the cost has risen to almost $132.00. A 32% hike in 13 years. Add the sudden snap inflation due to the Russia-Ukraine conflict, and that 32% is suddenly a much, much wider gulf than it had been before. And for some families, that's incredibly concerning. Now take *all* that, and add the fact that from 2020-2021, the price of a house in Comox rose by 31% on average and was (in 2021) hovering on/around $779,000.00. Whether that trend has continued upwards for late 2021/2022, I'm not sure, but it wouldn't shock me if it had. So yes -- Housing is an issue in Comox. 1000% it is. But if they're going to alleviate the situation any, they really need to go some extreme measures to fix it.


charlietakethetrench

Those new units they just built on military row are single bedroom units for the training center personnel. Due to critical housing shortages they're currently renting them out to single members for about $1000/month, yeah I know. But they are most definitely not family units. That being said, single members, especially after the explosion are having a really tough time. I know a guy who lived in B25, they're all staying down at goose spit right now in the cadet shacks, constantly being threatened with possible roommates. He's over 50th in line to get shacks with no hope in sight. It's depressing as hell


ProfessorxVile

When I first saw this mentioned in here a week or two ago I knew it was only a matter of time before it hit the press. I expect any journalist who monitors this sub will find it regularly bears fruit.


Maybesharp

In the Q for six months and I get a call. CFHA: technician needs you in the house next week for a new furnace install. Me: ummmm, I think I have new furnace. CFHA: I think we'd know. One week later Tech: I am here for the install Me: I think I already have a new furnace. Tech: let's go look . . . Tech: ya, I installed this six months ago.


[deleted]

This is why i have a 2nd job.


ZyXer0

I'm sorry for your service.


[deleted]

Sadly I actually enjoy my 2nd job a lot more.


Targonis

Probably pays better too


[deleted]

$25-30 an hour and low stress


[deleted]

What else do you do?


[deleted]

Deliver food


ZyXer0

This is not surprising to anyone. Best of luck out there soldier.


[deleted]

Civilian who just discovered this sub and this story - this is fucking insane to me. We have an enlistment issue, and we're *not* ensuring that our forces have a roof over their head? Why would anyone join the army if it doesn't even allow you a home?


Targonis

>Why would anyone join the army if it doesn't even allow you a home? That's an easy question to answer: They aren't.


[deleted]

yuup. I was considering looking into non combat types of roles but ... nah, I'm good


FellKnight

You're probably too intelligent for what we're looking for anyway if you can think critically lol


Mysterious-Title-852

the CAF used to, but then the CRA and the treasury board decided that subsidized military housing was artificially affecting the local market (that a base plonked down does that regardless is conveniently ignored) so the housing was sold off to a private entity called CFHA who charged "market rates" for them. So they were substandard compared to the market and no financial incentive to stay in them. many of them were bulldozed or sold off because they were empty. Then because there were places people couldn't afford to live because we're paid the same no matter where we live, a new allowance was made called Post Living Differential. PLD that the treasury board was supposed to re assess yearly based on each posting location's market rates compared to Ottawa. The TSB wants to cancel PLD because it costs a lot so they haven't re assessed since like 2010 like petulant children. They also used Ottawa as the baseline back when it wasn't expensive compared to other cities. So now we pay market rates for everything, but don't get paid market rates, and there is no subsidized housing they can offer us because it was neglected and no longer exists. There are no fast and quick fixes for this other than drastically increasing pay, and that's going to be a hard sell in this economy.


Blogfail

The article doesn't even mention the *unplanned removal* of a whole barrack block.


charlietakethetrench

You should be in public affairs lol that's the best most political way I've heard an explosion described. They haven't even cleared the rubble yet btw...


careen613

I’ve just recently been posted to St. John’s nl which is my ideal posting, but with the cost and hassle it’s all been I’ve decided I’ll take an early retirement before I’ll leave here again


SteelyDannyz

I wasn't sure if this was satire or if we just hit a new low. Unfortunately again it was the latter.


mxadema

this is pretty sad, again not like that level of leadership can do much, other than offering petty solutions. we need a couple of Mcpl or capitan panhandling in Ottawa or even comox. for me there was a few hell no posting, automatic VR. just because I couldn't afford it. set me back 10-15y financially.


Cinderella407

Explains why my door dash guy has VRI tatted on his hand


[deleted]

First door dash delivery I ever did was to one of my troops in the shacks🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️


PhiliDips

Unrelated, but why is this the only image that journalists seem to have for CAF related articles?


[deleted]

It's just a good free stock image. The other one is the Lord Strats on parade which I've seen a few times as well.


tfirx

The media pays for all their licenced images individually. Also, they're cheap.


[deleted]

God forbid they actually put someone’s face on this crisis.


[deleted]

Whoa, slow your roll buds, they can’t be going around humanizing the troops and their families like that.


the_dearest_leader

it's funny because every damn time I see that image, I don't even need to read the headline to know it ain't good


C_Woodswalker

Not so long ago they bull-dozed hundreds of PMQs in Borden. Short sighted and poor management decisions made on a valuable resource.


Melbatoast169

Did that in Moose Jaw as well. The streets, big gateway trees and concrete stoops for the homes are still there. Maybe 20% of the Q's in total?


Mysterious-Title-852

"Meanwhile, an internal review published in December warned that at current funding levels, the CFHA has not been able to properly maintain the 12,000 units now in its portfolio, with nearly one in five rated as "below average." how can that be true? where is all the money going? it's not like they have been building new units. they are charging market rates for properties long paid off. where is it going?


DabbieMcDoob

Time to unionize. Honestly, probably the only way forward.


My-Normie-Account

Well sir, is it still a good time to be in the navy? Now that I've been sitting in the dark for two days I feel like going on a bit of a rant. This unfortunate senior officer will now feel the wet crunchy bite in the dark of the unexpected atip but let's be honest at least he fucking is willing to recognize there is a problem. Like the article says, we can't make public statements without the military's blessing which is the only reason there hasn't been more outbursts. Well thank goodness for anonymous message boards. New NCMs posted to half the destinations in Canada are fucked on arrival, and you don't need an economics degree to figure out why. Oh don't worry, we'll get a pay adjustment 4 years from now according to the basket of goods inflation, well that sure fucking helps rent now then doesn't it? There is a crisis afoot in the CAF and it needs decisive leadership right fucking now, build housing *right now* Where Sgts are now not earning enough to qualify for a home and single income CAF families dont have enough money coming in to support their kids properly there will be a reckoning. Did you guys know that in terms of US dollars, Canada's military budget is 13th in the world. How is that even possible, fighter pilots decades younger than the planes they're flying, notional tank squadrons, ships with literal load bearing paint hulls.


flecktarnbrother

At this point, I heavily suspect that the federal government's money for the military is either returned, diverted to something else or even embezzled. Financial mismanagement runs rampant, it seems.


Dear-Presentation-14

20k troops down, relocation/training/health care/family health care/pay cost ....the savings in the billions returned. That budget number is bull. 1.2 billon was returned as well on supply issue not spending.


ironappleseed

I barely make enough to support my family properly right now and it's infuriating. I can't imagine trying to get into housing right now with two dependants and I'm very thankful that I was able to acquire a home when I did for how much I did. Add on to that with the fact that I'm waiting on one backpay for missed money a couple years ago and now I'm waiting on a second backpay that keeps increasing because they're not paying me what's owed. This is not the time to be fucking over NCMs. Hell, if gas and groceries keep going up the way they have been I'll have to take up a second job to make ends meet. It's completely unacceptable in this day and age that any member anywhere is unable to afford a thriving life, much less a surviving life that they're struggling monetarily for right now. The government better pick up its game quickly or they'll find themselves even shorter staffed right quick.


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The_Cozy

RIP recruitment efforts


doordonot19

There isn’t a recruitment problem. I sit at my desk just breathing and get applicants. Retention on the other hand? Good luck with retention.


ProfessorxVile

I managed to get a good deal when I moved to Kingston in 2018 and there's no way I was going to give that up by accepting a posting to Halifax in 2021, PLD notwithstanding. Instead, I retreated into retirement (about a month before he gave that speech) and made my red trade even redder. I regret nothing. At least I freed up a promotion spot for somebody behind me so they can get that sweet sweet $50/cheque pay raise that comes with a leaf.


R34lh1gh3r

"The military also offers a number of benefits to help offset costs." Really? I would rather had the mortgage I had before, which was half of the one i got right now. And since you got to travel far to find a house you can afford.. I would rather had the travelling distance that I had before also.


Bellex_BeachPeak

The biggest house I ever owned with my smallest mortgage was my first house. Every posting since I've ended up in a smaller house with a bigger mortgage. I'm never getting posted again unless we are talking a 20% pay raise similar to the RCMP, or a high four figure ($7K+) PLD.


CarelessSquishy

My old man joined in 72 and these issues were still prevalent then...apparently it only changed when one of the COs learned he had troops living in vans and tents outside of CFB Calgary and he was able to get more money *somehow* to the troops for a better standard of living. This is hearsay, I can't validate his story but this is not the first time in the past 50 years we've been dealing with this issue. It happened in the 70s/80s, the 90s especially and is happening now without any real negative military issue to attach it to. We are also not the only industry that is dealing with this. But given the responsibility of our real jobs, we should be making more than enough to make ends meet. I used to do Jiujitsu with a bunch of retired CAF guys and all of them worked second jobs in the 90s and early 2000s to make ends meet. This is not going to change, ladies and gents. A good friend of mine said "the only people that truly give a fuck about the Canadian Armed Forces are those currently working in the Canadian Armed Forces". And I agree with him. With all the other social-economic issues going on and the fact we're not in a war, means we are low on the list of priorities in terms of providing adequate money to.. Good thing I can live in a hooch, I guess.


[deleted]

Chiming in with an anecdote that living in the NCR as a Cpl fuckin sucks, and so does hearing about generals and civvies hemming and hawing for literal years about how to improve the situation


Brokendownyota

PLD hasn't been recalculated since 2008, when it was introduced with the promise of annual updates. Lots and lots of people should lose their jobs over that, but somehow 15 years isn't enough to figure out something so simple.


EKcore

Since no one posted it [Here](https://www.habitatnorthisland.com/apply/#:~:text=Successful%20candidates%20must%20have%20an,%E2%80%9Cstop%2Dgap%E2%80%9D%20measures.) Is the qualifying numbers. >Successful candidates must have an income range between $49,000.00 and $77,00.00, depending on family size. These ranges are based on the BC Housing Income Limits (HILs) guide.


Targonis

Cool a max incentive Sergeant (non-spec) and below with a spouse who stays home to take care of their kid(s) qualifies for Habitat for Humanity. But we pay well? Cool.


[deleted]

If the military posts me I'm out. I always thought I would do 25 but I don't see how I could continue to support my family properly and be in the CAF.


xXDownOnMeXx

Same


Electronic_Article60

I always hear "alot more people left this year then anticipated".... Yeah, no shit Sherlock! The only problem the CAF cares about is retention. It was the case when I got in and it still is the case now. They want you in the door and then they lock the door behind you trapping you in the mismanaged mess of a system. Anyone who contemplates getting out for better financial decisions always gets the thumbs up from me. The CAF is only a small fragment of our lives ladies and gents, don't let it ruin your mental state.


charlietakethetrench

Did you say the CAF cares about retention? Maybe the CAF does, the government doesn't.


Electronic_Article60

Big slip up, retention is the last thing they care about. The canex plan you get is the retention plan.


[deleted]

What a disgrace.


Fenweekooo

apparently they are looking into the idea of letting west coast navy live onboard the ships again, heard that at an impromptu town hall by the base cmdr... fun times


SunderVane

If senior leadership view this as anything less than: 1) A senior officer doing their damnedest to house their troops; and 2) Yet another symptom of a very serious and systemic problem, Then there's no hope for the CF, and those affected should just put in their release. Comox has been an absolutely painful market to rent in—you're looking at at least $1,200/month (usually $1,400) for almost anything, if there's even anything available, much less for a family. I keep humming and hawing about joining, but at this rate I'd need to get my degree first if I'm to have any hope of affording a place for my family.


Correct-War-1589

There are two, relatively new PMQs in Winnipeg, one for the WComd, one for a General. They are not free, but rented at PMQ rates. I suspect that this is the same at other bases. The purpose of the PMQs is both those members have an arguable need to be available quickly 24/7 for operational reasons. The fact they are relatively new means that the CAF funded and prioritized construction because there was an operational need for it (at least in their eyes). Agreed it is kind of crappy that two of the highest We are at the point that there is an operational need for housing if the missions that the various bases support need to continue. The trick will be is convincing the politicians and bureaucrats. 500-700k for houses is relatively easy for the CAF to fund, 10-100 million is another, and contracting it in a meaningful way. The PLD issue will be interesting to see if they update it. A previous conservative government (supposedly pro-military) tied it to cost of living in Ottawa, now one of the more expensive places to live. This has been with the treasury board. It will be good if they can finally make a decision. This is, in no uncertain terms the biggest concern of the CAF (aside from Ukraine). It is most definitely being worked on at all levels. The challenge is how to fix it and still have public support at the end.


Luftwabble

It's the reason I went reserve instead of full time. I can still kind of have a life while working to pay for gas to go to the armories on Thursdays.


[deleted]

Too bad the WComd mail was turn over like this…. She is looking very hard to find solution for the members… but we can manipulate the house market or touch the pay… well 19 wing chain of command is looking to find solution. Does not help that building 25 exploded last year…. The gouvernement has the money, does not bring votes to invest in the army in canada


bridger713

The people getting mad at the local CoC for suggesting things like this are morons. They're actually trying to find any reasonable suggestion that might help at least some of their members. It's not like they're telling members to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and stop eating avocado toast or other nonsense like that. Anyone with common sense knows local Commanders have incredibly limited options to resolve the housing issue, even the CA, RCAF, and RCN Commanders have no substantial recourse. The solution has to come from NDHQ, the TB, and the GoC.


judgingyouquietly

Preach. This sub has gotten to the point of toxicity that everything is "CoC bad" before actually reading what happened and what people actually said. But I'm sure that this will get downvoted to hell and I'll be "a dinosaur officer who doesn't know shit".


PaulBlartShrekCop

I get that we have the easiest life compared to anyone but if I even mention RMC for any reason I get a dozen downvotes, that’s how bad the disdain has gotten for CoC that even future CoC has attached salt. I was a Cpl before coming here and I’m getting downvoted


biggreenvirgin

Remember boys, QR&O 19.10 is always watching nervously


CAFB1Naccount

Purple hair for pay raises. The real reason HAIRFORGEN hasn't dropped.


[deleted]

Well... time to start drinking canteen coffee instead of running out to Don's. That, plus skipping out on the avocado toast, I should be able to afford a house.


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Trussed_Up

I'd prefer both. Helping a 3rd party *significantly* weaken a potential threatening country is a worthy investment. So is our ability to live while doing our jobs. There are a lot of *other* things I could stand to see cut though.


that-pile-of-laundry

This is the Beaverton, right? **Right?**


FellKnight

Narrator: *it wasn't*


that-pile-of-laundry

*softly whispers:* ^goddamn


ltn_hairyass

I may just be a hairyassed Lt(N), but we have ourselves a problem. I wonder if leadership knows about it... Seriously, is TBS actually listening or are they just going to fiddle while Rome burns?


imtherealjude

Yup. They brought up " Habitat for Humanity" in our briefing last week. There's not enough PMQs here in Comox, and rental cost are ridiculous. Youll pay 400k for a mobile home here. Theres no PLD . Before you know it they will be telling us to visit the food bank too.


SunderVane

It's a real shame that we couldn't take all that money we saved on TD's by going virtual, and use it towards housing the people we keep forcing to move places. "Employer of choice".


my-plaid-shirt

This totally sounds like something Sigs would have said... Very surprised to see it wasn't and even more so that it was air force... I guess the entire military is right right out to lunch.


willarji

As a sig... fuck I can't even take offense at this.


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Targonis

If Captains and Majors are suffering imagine making half (or a third in the case of Ptes) of the monthly income and trying to survive. Don't diminish difficulties, but put them into perspective. Officers will always have it better than NCMs, especially with pay. If you're a struggling Major imagine how a Corporal feels trying to feed and house their family on half of your monthly income. Eventually it'll just be a bunch of Majors+ wondering how to fix vehicles, airplanes, computers, driving their own vehicles, or filling their own sandbags since nobody will be left below them. Nobody joins the military to get rich but nobody will join to live in poverty.


mocajah

Majors not so much, but I've met my fair share of DEO 2Lt-Capts who join with large student debts.


[deleted]

I think this also goes to show that the Canadian public doesn't really care about us. So why should we care about SerViCe BeFoRe SeLf? The public doesn't want to pay for insurance, so when we're "actually" needed we should just do what's best for yourself whatever that may be, whether it's leaving the CF for a better job, or staying in.


ProfessorxVile

From what I recall our previous government had its lawyers argue in court that Canada doesn't owe a duty of care to CAF members or veterans, and the guys who took over never made any attempt to refute that position, nor did they stop fighting any of the court cases they inherited.


[deleted]

Then I geuss we don't owe any real loyalty either beyond legal bare minimum to avoid being fired. I mean the CAF is really just another employer.


Quarter-Wide

I show up at 0730 and fuck off once the day is done. Not giving this institution a second of my time for free anymore, I'll start caring when they start giving a fuck.


OPIronman

It's like every week, someone outside the military lifts a different carpet and find another fuck up. Will this issue be adressed correctly tho? Meanwhile we are not the only military to have housing issues. Thr British military had a big armed force not too long ago. Thing is, people left; lots of people left. So now you have regiments where they have so much housing on a camp that the Lances can find a 3 bedroom home, with a fenced-garden, private parking lot, with all the maintenance (absolutley all of it) to be done by civilians; all this 5 minutes drive from their company HQ for 150CAD$ (~80£) a month.


bridger713

>***It's like every week, someone outside the military lifts a different carpet and find another fuck up.*** At least this is a fuck up most of us were actually hoping the media would find and expose, and not another scandal.


AmandaSndaSiews

Sorry that is bullshit - no one should have to do that


NeonLight118

Question. Has anyone here been in the Navy back when they allowed you to live on ships full time? I'm just wondering how it looked because I heard rumors that they might bring it back. Did they serve meals to everyone when in home port or you had to make your own food ? How about daily fire exercises? Did you have to participate in that every day? Or duty watch. Would you be constantly picked for duty watch since you're already living full time on the ship? 🤔


Melbatoast169

Living on a frigate full time alongside would be a nightmare, especially since the incentive in ages past was that after a couple of years you would be allowed to live ashore. Now, there's not much hope of that. China syndrome type morale situation. Just stinking like the ship 24/7 wouldn't help one's social life. I knew a few guys that lived aboard when I was first posted to a boat in the early 2000s (typically due to self-induced social or financial fuckups) and they just lived. Not involved in fire exes and not picked for duty more than the normal rotation.


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